Radio Westeros E16 Daenerys Targaryen

SPOILERS ALL BOOKS!!!
radiowesteros.com
(episode guide below)
Intro
Game of Throne: From Commodity to Mother of Dragons
Reading - The Birth of Dragons
Childhood in Braavos
adverts: Astapor & History of Westeros
Daenerys the Conqueror
Reading - Dracarys
Daenerys the Ruler
Song - Mhysa by Karliene
TWoW Speculation
Licencing - www.tearsofbloo...
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[@emilyrusso6256]

daenerys is my favourite character, i think she is so incredibly complex, but this podcast made me realize just how fascinating and compelling she truly is. her pursuit of her family's legacy in order to feel close to her family, her struggles with wanting to be a good ruler and being afraid of being perceived as her father and her overall desire to do good and help people make her the most interesting character in the books.

[@elenastoian2179]

When reading ADWD, Danny's POVs the only thought that kept popping was: " Hell is paved with good intentions..." She wants to do great, but everything turns sour. All her victories turn to ashes once obtained.

[@pinkpirate5]

I know it's probably been said before, but I love Dany's part with the burning the Slavers in Astapor for the allusions to Caesar crossing the Rubicon. She even has an 'alea iacta est' moment.

[@riccardoalcaro8483]

this must be your best episode, out of a long string of really excellent ones. you've managed to shed light on all subleties of Daenerys' arc and character development and make her truly one of the most interesting characters in the series

[@thealmightyloaf3187]

Finally a good Red Door theory. This one was beliveable!

[@vickils9571]

I love your podcasts, Your analyses are great, and the commercials, and songs are a nice touch. There are many sites presenting ASOIAF material, and much of it is excellent, but I really appreciate the high level of professionalism presented on your site. It is also great when you do cross-over programs on Westeros History, another professional site. Thank you for your work.

[@zepher12]

You guys are the best and I love the podcast! I'm glad you did an Dany centric episode because i'm rereading AGOT currently and there's a passage at the end of one of her last chapters that's been on my mind lately. "Inside the tent the shapes were dancing, circling the brazier and the bloody bath, dark against the sandsilk, and some did not look human. She glimpsed the shadow of a great wolf, and another like a man wreathed in flames." The great wolf and the man wreathed in flames slipped my thoughts the first time I read it but now it's stuck in my brain like a thorn. I just wanted to know what your take on the passage. Thanks for the hard work and production value.

[@kevinmoore4237]

Wow - this starts out great but becomes profoundly compelling around 1:30:00 as you begin to tackle the really thorny political issues. This podcast should be required listening for those two groups of clueless folks who: 1) defend the television show, and 2) attack Dany's arc as being boring and wandering in ADwD. The issues Martin is hammering away at here are as relevant to our world as The Wire.

[@sertorrhenclegane]

On both issues: 1. I will defend the show because they are two different animals. They have different endgames and points to make. As long as the show hits the big points I could care less how loyal the adaptation is.2. Either way, as much as I like Dany, I don't find the idea of a Targaryen restoration boring more than her personally and would prefer that it not happen.If I wanted to watch The Wire, I'd watch The Wire.

[@stephaniespain9849]

This is my second rewatch of this episode. Love you channel & hoping to hear more soon!

[@martinrheaume5393]

You guys do such a good job. You've gone for quality over quantity, and provide in-depth character analysis. You examine all the angles and give them the thorough examination they deserve without all the fanboy drama and hating. There are a handful of good ASoIaF podcasts, but your originality, format, and quality put you at the top. I look forward to all your shows, but I'm really looking forward to the Prophecies Podcast. I'm sure the Tywin one will be engaging and illuminating too. He's one of the "great men" of Westeros, and I'm still a little pissed at Tyrion from killing him, because I always anticipated his interactions with other characters.

[@brandonlambert9768]

I hope Dany doesn't become The Mad Queen in the books besides Ceresi is already a Mad Queen. I do think she'll burn KL, but it'll either be to stop the spread of greyscale, or accidentally, while trying to out Ceresi or FAgeon she ignites the caches of wildfire her father had strategically placed around KL.

[@victoriajeffrey9931]

This is one of my favorite podcasts and Dany is my favorite character! Awesome show!

[@osirisgem]

Maybe when Quaithe says "to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow" means that studying under a shadow binder or a user of shadow magic will give her the information and/or tools too to ensure victory for the battle of the dawn. That also suggests that she did mention Marwyn the Mage when she communicated with Danny.

[@TeflonTv]

congrats on the year and great job hope all the red door danny is jons sister people really listen and soak it in

[@MrFirextinguisher]

Teflon Tv I mean it’s all speculation at this point with no real definitive information. You can make a case that Ned and Lyanna are the parents of Jon if you really wanted to use certain quotes and literary concepts. But I think it’s important to remember there are no lemon trees in bravos

[@nononono3421]

Darkstar drinks unsweetened lemonwater. That's all I have.

[@maryharrison6948]

Thank you for this excellent episode. I got chills listening to your readings, especially the pyre scene. I am on board with Braavos and the palace of the Sea Lord/Red Door theory. It's compelling to think of Syrio Forel perhaps aiding the young Targaryens as he did Arya. I love the themes you have explained so well. I feel many in the fandom have lost interest in Daenerys, but I am always amazed by her. I myself feel dragons are the highest trump cards in the game (besides the Others threat). I was thinking that Aegon the Conqueror had his 2 sisters as well in solidifying his campaign. I feel Dany too could use the "three heads of the dragon". I like your ideas on what may come. Symbolically, Vaes Dothrak also provides the "womb of the world",where she bathed before and felt renewed, and the "mother of mountains". With what you have pointed out, perhaps this location will serve as a place of power for another rebirth to occur in her arc. Happy anniversary and may your donations flow in like Lannister gold. Cheers.

[@sunmoon42]

It is so good to have a new episode from you guys. I usually listen to two or three of your episodes while doing surgeries for long hours and I was starting to get bored with all the older episodes since I have listened to each perhaps five or six times... This is such an interesting topic and you did a great job in research and presentation. Thank you! I never knew house with the red door thread started with Yolkboy... and I didn't know that some people have such serious theories based on it! I always just assumed the lemon tree was in someone's garden. After this I think it is in the sealord's garden :)

[@RadioWesteros]

Sun&Moon Thanks so much for the kind words. Surgery may be the most interesting thing yet we've heard people do while listening! So honored you choose to spend your time (re)listening to us :) FYI-- Tywin should be coming along in a couple of weeks. Hope you stay with us!

[@sunmoon42]

Radio Westeros well I do micro surgery (under the microscope that is), so every movement has 100 times the impact it has in "the real world"! From the outside it looks like meditation ;) Anyway most of it becomes routine after enough practice. That is why I usually have some entertainment with me specially if it goes on for 5-6 hours. Cannot wait for the Tywin episode :)

[@teebaby0486]

I love your podcast, and this one is up there with my favorites next to the brienne episode, can't wait for more to come and congrats on your one year mile stone 🏆🍰👑🎂🎈🎊🎉🎧🎤

[@laurentiu2704]

You are kinda harsh with Daenerys. Dany is a young girl with no family for advice ,very young dragons,bigger problems then Aegon and think that is fair to judge her like that?

[@sertorrhenclegane]

I can't believe I didn't spot Dany's big problem, she wants to be both a conqueror or a savior. I think she'd do well to speak with Madame Ghao from the Netflix production of Daredevil. She'd learn a lot from that woman.

[@osirisgem]

Been with you guys since the beginning and I am so super glad to see it's been a whole year and the content is still in top form. Thanks for all the videos, I do enjoy them quite a bit,

[@amgdirect]

fantastic podcast! you're the ones i come to for concise, in-depth and intelligent dialogue about this material. looking forward to this episode.

[@SvenTuSventu]

Didn't get a chance to finish my ad for: Charles LeTann's, Used Mummers' Dragons. Got a clanker? Bring It down! Burnt and blackened? We take all trades black, green or red... Come Ye'All down. On King's Road next to the Painted Rose.

[@slamsastark7138]

I loved yolk boys post in reddit. So the fact that you do a pod cast is great. Love them all. Thank you for the wonderful theories. Very well done.

[@interregnum_]

I love these podcasts--and I say that as someone who genuinely dislikes the books. But I like Melisandre and Stannis, and I was pointed to your discussions on both. Which were excellent and made me need to hear the dozen others you'd done. And now I have a new appreciation for the subject matter, if not the books themselves. You guys are great.

[@kevinmoore4237]

***** If you're having trouble warming to the books try this too: meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/essays/

[@interregnum_]

Kevin Moore Thanks, man, I appreciate the link (which I will probably read over instead of doing my work, this morning). My issue with the books is primarily the storytelling, rather than the story itself--that is, the macro-story of the politics and intrigue is fascinating, but I'm not a fan of how we see it through the micro-story of all the people involved. So I'm very much into discussions of the facts of and theories about ASOIAF, and, again, I thank you for another source to glean from.

[@speak123]

Subscribed just over a month ago I think , and grown to enjoy a lot of the videos. Keep it up!

[@Hala10-7]

Excellent episode...but don't you think it would still be too cold for lemon trees to grow in Braavos?

[@vixili907]

Aegon was not fond of ruling and relied on Visenya to do most of the day to day rule. I think if the three heads of the dragon prophecy is any indication that Jon and Tyrion or Aegon will have a hand in ruling while she is more in charge of conquering. Themes in ASOIAF tend to mirror each other as such.

[@kevinmoore4237]

Another great podcast - never realized you were the originator of the whole red door/lemon tree polemic!

[@chiaroscuroamore]

Thanks for your awesome work Radio Westeros!!!

[@sapinta]

I looove your theory at the end of the episode of Drogon just flying away :)

[@brandonlambert9768]

I don't think she's a weak ruler or makes poor decisions I think she's just been placed in an impossible predicament which is a learning experience for her and once she has an advisor who knows how to handle these kind of issues she'll be a much better ruler and better suited to rule Westeros.

[@stateofthenihil8352]

I wouldn't call Meereen a disaster. It did have all the problems you mentioned, but she did manage to put in a fragile peace until she left the city on Drogon. The entire point is that she succeeds but is forced to give up everything to achieve it. In the end she decides that it isn't worth it. (This all rides on the theory that the Shavepate poisoned the locusts in order to destroy the peace which has quite a bit of evidence for it)

[@rogerw.w7434]

great program. I'm wondering if Daenys Targ. foresaw another War for the Dawn. Maybe Aegon the Conqueror forged Westeros in preparation for war against the Great Other? Perhaps this is what is also in Signs and Portents? Blood Raven probably figured this out and made his way North. He then influenced everything in Roberts Rebellion.

[@orionaugustwatson]

I'm from the future and it's an absolute travesty IMHO that such a complex character is turned to an entitled brat who destroys the city after conquering it and let her actual enemy die from second hand injuries Final season did everyone (except maybe Theon and Jorah ) dirty, however the harshest blow goes to Jamie and Daenerys

[@jovedo27]

And jon

[@reachinghigher4259]

I know you guys said you were skipping the House of the Undying, but I'm surprised you skipped the entire 'wandering in the red waste' and 'Qarth' storylines. Even without the HotU, Qarth is a hotbed of character development for Dany. I've also heard some people try desperately to allude the idea that GRRM wrote Dany's trouble in Meereen with America's trouble in Afghanistan. The difficulty of one conquering culture trying to make another one better, despite the obvious clash of ideals and societies. Like oil and water. I'm not a fan of the reference, but I guess there's some truth in it. With regards to the end of DwD, I'm honestly hoping she uses the situation to bind Drogon to her will. There just isn't enough time for a whole lot more stuff with the Dorthraki, AND get back to reclaim Viserion and Rhaegal, AND Slaver's Bay, AND Victarion, AND the Dragonbinding Horn, AND get to Westeros, AND deal with Aegon...AND still deal with everything that doesn't involve Dany.

[@excepteuropa]

Best way to end my day, Have I mentioned how much I love you guys? Keep this going please!!!!!!!

[@johnlanouette8611]

I noticed something interesting, From the point when Ser. Jorah and her blood riders finds her- after the pyre has cooled- The Point of view stops and it is like a basic narration. This same thing thing happens much later in a certain Victarian chapter (I'm sure you know the one). I hadn't noticed it in this Dany chapter until just hearing the reading. Interesting!!

[@RadioWesteros]

John Lanouette Yeah that's the best evidence that Dany's dragons are the only three in existence, as it the pyre sequence switches to omniscient narrator and says 'for the first time in hundreds of years, the night came alive with the music of dragons.'

[@johnlanouette8611]

Radio Westeros Yea! Good÷ point! I am hoping that we'll get to see some more dragons!

[@pinkwhaleable]

Happy one year anniversary! You guys are awesome :D

[@alicjaopajdowska3532]

Love your podcasts. I am not really a fan of most of the fan music, but the song in this one is really beautiful :)

[@ASlapOfAFish]

Brilliant love the show have been a fan since your second episode and I hope to see a lot more of you guys. Keep up the great work yous are doing a smashing job.....:-)

[@byronmars3368]

Ok I'm officially convinced that the lemon tree is in bravos

[@thealmightyloaf3187]

YES, finally! :D I am looking forward to this. Thanks you guys

[@JamesBuschell]

Great video, insightful as always you guys rock

[@NeoLudditevisons]

Yeahhh! saving my listening for the mid week! Donate one and all! Keep the radio alive

[@slamme79]

An hour through good work on the Red Door. Hope certain KZbinrs listen to it and pay attention to it.

[@brandonlambert9768]

Daenerys deserved a much better ending than D&D gave her.

[@fionasimpson6059]

I like most of your podcasts but I found this one extremely biased.

[@ser_ryon_vine6392]

sweet....thanks guys!

[@780601able]

About time...thx for the video...keep them coming

[@jovedo27]

How would you feel if daenerys ended up how she ended up in the show? Before she got got

[@jovedo27]

@@thetalesofelbek7042 that doesn't make much sense.

[@jovedo27]

@@thetalesofelbek7042 what does Dany going mad have anything to do with being a stark fan? Most people like Dani, and if she went mad how she did in the show then I personally would be kinda sad, knowing everything she's been through and how much she wanted to be good. It would be poetic. I dont know what being a stark fan would have to do with anything tho.

[@peterlendero1074]

You guys are golden

[@paulmcarthur3328]

great show guys

[@Kevin-p7e9t]

Sooo excited for this one! Love the show!

[@Midgert89]

A character like Euron Greyjoy is set to destroy her, he is not succeptible to any of the things Dany frequently exploits to have her way with sellswords. Victorian will likely betray him for Dany though.

[@raaf4678]

Thank you for this video! :)

[@BuffyngtonPost]

Love you guys!

[@jovedo27]

6 years**

[@shannonmoffett6530]

you both are the best.

[@sailordiva]

love you guys!!!!

[@McC0917]

Love this!!!

[@JJJJJVVVVVLLLLL]

sweet combo

[@tymarsmith5693]

Teflon tv I like your predictions are real love the channel would love to share some of my thoughts with like the letter Robb sent by chance could that be playing out radio westeros y'all do y'all thing I real just listen to you 2 and history westeros

[@johnlanouette8611]

Its interesting, the comparison between chattel and cattle.I think George RR Martin may be trying to say something about this. It may be an allegory there. I am a huge animal lover and am strongly against "factory Farms" and the enslavement and torture of animals. I don't think it is wrong to kill and eat them, just torture and enslave them. We need a Daenarys in the US to overturn the meat and dairy industry. Now YolkBoy, I have been told that in Europe, Animals are treated better, is that true? I don't if thats true in the UK though. But the attitude people have about animals is very similar to the attitude people have about slaves in Essos (or in our world back in the day) They are less than, they don't matter, they are property.

[@danburke6568]

Some of the biggest factory farms here in the uk. Their are normal farm too. Also factory farms hide away due to fear that law breakers will protest them.

[@ser_ryon_vine6392]

lol preston

[@thesnowinwinterfell2571]

Preston is a joke

[@Stephen_Curtin]

1:10:00

[@onemoreturn]

Mary of house Sue.

[@DeamnProd]

Daynaris torgerien stermbron

[@rht785]

for me dany is the most boring dumb and evil character of GOT

[@kevinmoore4237]

rht785 But ASoIaF is not about how much we love or hate or are indifferent to Dany as a character - it's about our world and its history - as broadly as you choose to interpret that statement. Dany's arc is a path to understanding the endless complexities of the history of humanity, governance and the ways that humans relate to each other. It's not about whether Emilia Clarke is as hot or as virtuous or as interesting or as lovable as Wonder Woman - it's about the problems that we humans have trying to reconcile our animal sides with our sense of morality. Read, think, learn: meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/essays/ On the other hand, if by "GOT" you mean the television show exclusively, then I agree with you. They've butchered Dany so badly that your characterization is not so far off the mark.

[@HelyneMay]

rht785 I never ceased to be amazed by this reading of Daenerys. Like her or not, she is anything but boring, and is certainly not evil or dumb. GRRM has carefully crafted her story to be the epitome of the "human heart in conflict with itself" that he loves to write about with ASoIaF. She maybe become more "gray" as time goes on, but I do not see her becoming the cartoon villain that some want to believe she will become, either. Dany has a huge part to play in this story, which will probably end in huge personal sacrifice for her. GRRM has built her up and explored her character, as well as the consequences of war all over Westeros ( and in Dany's case, the attempted conquer and change of an old culture from Essos with an economy based upon slavery, and set in its ways) for good reason. "Dany's arc is a path to understanding the endless complexities of the history of humanity, governance and the ways that humans relate to each other... it's about the problems that we humans have trying to reconcile our animal sides with our sense of morality." Nailed it, Kevin Moore. Thanks. Will return with questions and a few thoughts when I can. Thanks, Radio Westeros !

[@faceless8424]

This is A Song of Ice and Fire not GoT. They are completely different worlds, characters and stories.