Extra Credits and the Orc Oopsie

Greetings, boys and girls. The doggo has returned. Let's see if Extra Credits has mellowed out while I've been gon...ah. Well. Here we go again.
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Intro Music...
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[@Rags]

Thank you all SO MUCH for being here to watch my video. I'm sorry I've not done main channel content for so long. I'm happy to be working on videos here again and I have lots planned to make up for my absence. My life would have gone way differently this past year+ if I didn't have the support that I did. Expect more videos soon as well as content on my second channel, Dogbytes. As part of my return to KZbin, please check out the amazing plushies of myself and MauLer that are being made by makeship.com. They sent me the sample plush in the video and it is legitimately probably the best one they've ever done. It's amazing! Buy both mine and MauLer's and get a 10% discount on checkout! Each one sold helps out both our channels and the podcast immensely and lets us invest more into each. www.makeship.com/products/rag... www.makeship.com/products/mau...

[@goofball7354]

2

[@Emery._]

The king returns

[@gungrave254]

Glad you're back

[@dzvxo]

glad to have you back. great vid.

[@TheRedThirst]

I’m just glad the goodest Doggo is back

[@HeroSabre]

"The ooze monsters are evil!" "I'll be the judge of that!" And then she fucking died. They swarmed her and digested her, as is their nature.

[@CamStarkey]

The slime holds it's arms out in a friendly hug! "See they're friendly! I want to hug it back!" Ok, surprise round. The slime attempts to engulf you.

[@TheOutlawMan]

No shit, there are actually people this retarded in the real world. Example: Western tourists who take cycling or backpacking trips through Middle Eastern countries... and then end up shot or beheaded.

[@asmodeusharbinger370]

Don't kink-shame her you bigot!

[@certifiedcat9010]

@@TheOutlawMan hey its a mostly peaceful decapitation. They were oddly friendly

[@TheOutlawMan]

@@certifiedcat9010 "They just told me to stand to the side... because I'm a woman" 🤡

[@ivercingetorix1367]

"Be more inclusive to people who want to change core aspects of the game" No. Make your own game.

[@haku8135]

If i'm DMing a game, and I have a quest involving a band of orcs establishing a fortress in a mountain near a village, I'm going to make it VERY clear that Orcs are fucking Orcs, and you should absolutely kill them. Don't feel bad about blowing up their food store and setting their beds on fire, cause you passed a smashed up cart on the way to this fort, and around that cart you found a woman and a little girl with their throats cut. When you get to the fortress, if you go to their holding cells, you can find a VERY tortured man that will explain to you in tears that HE slit the throats of his wife and daughter when they were surrounded by a band of orcs. He killed them quickly, cause if he hadn't, the Orcs would have gotten them. And that, would have been much much worse. Cause the Orcs are MONSTERS. He is missing a leg by the way, and that's not the worst injury. If you have a problem with killing these orcs, reevaluate your morals. Cause these are monsters, and monsters should be killed. If you see a group of orcs traveling at a later date, DON'T WALK UP TO THEM AND SAY HI! At the LEAST you should hide from them. Cause they're orcs! Orcs aren't good folk! Same thing with the fucking Beholder! Kill it first, or you gonna die. If that group of orcs were all friendly and stuff, they'd walk around making it EXTREMELY clear they were cheery kind folk that meant no harm to nobody. Cause THEY would know, orcs are fucking awful.

[@thatromanfella8377]

I have always hated this. If the area you are talking about can be changed to your whim (ie, table top games, games in general) why do you insist on encroaching on spaces set up by other people and telling THEM to change. Like the whole 'gamers are so sexist racist and homopopbic so le epic company should have to monitor every gamer and what they say and use bans' when every game has a mute button for each individual player is just so fucking stupid. Make a custom server with your changes. Make a new system or homebrew a system that fits to your desires and find others that enjoy the same stuff. You will be left alone and you will be so much easier. Why change everyone else when you can just be happy within your own bubble?

[@LoneWolf-rc4go]

@@thatromanfella8377 Because the people calling for this stuff are talent-less hacks. If they were to go off and make a game it would suck therefore they have to leech of the hard work and dedication of others.

[@lordcavalier9688]

Why are you not allowing them to take YOUR ball and go home.

[@Ostentatiousnessness]

I've always adhered to the idea of: If you don't like a work of media, make your own. Don't piss and moan about how you aren't getting what you want.

[@Indigo_Gaming]

_"You see that horned demon-looking personification of evil in Ridley Scott's 1985 classic, Legend? Clearly it's a stand-in for [minority group], and here's why-- _*_Hey! Why is everyone leaving?! I'M not the racist, THEY are!"_*

[@kingsadvisor18]

DM: The [insert monsters] are a tribal, zealous society that exist purely to rape and wage war. The problem player: ... DM: They worship devil gods and regularly practice cannibalism The problem player: ! DM: And they want to ambush you in the night and steal all your things, they don't care if they kill you The problem player: You mean like black people Everybody else: Leave racist The problem player: You're the racists! I'm putting this in my blog!

[@Saint_Wolf_]

Orcs the war mongers blood thirsty, are stand in for blacks! The war mongers blood thirsty who didn't start, conduct or really ever had many war campaigns out of Europe, unlike the Persians with Alexander the Great, Mongolians with Gengis Kan, the Hunds with Attila the Hun, the Europeans with the Inquisitions and then their world wars. Seeing black people as orcs becuase of their possible traits is not only racist, is racist and baseless, racist wishful fucking thinking.

[@oriondye3212]

The main reason why blacks never really tried to conquer out of Africa is because of the Sahara. Trying to get an army across that massive desert is just not feasible for a preindustrial power. It has nothing to do with black people being inherently more pacifist than others. Humans are human, and empires are empires. If the Sahara didn’t exist, we would see black empires trying to conquer Europe, Asia, etc.

[@SeismicHammer]

@@kingsadvisor18 Orc culture really seems to be more based on Norse culture, what with the raiding, human sacrifice, and common use of axes. Depending on the source, they often have some level of brutal honor as well.

[@SeismicHammer]

@@oriondye3212 Africans have been fighting amongst their neighbors in a similar fashion to other continents for most of time (except under European colonialism). The slave trade was fueled by captives taken in war and raids, and was an integral part of quite a few african economies. Once the European powers ditched their colonies, parts of Africa have actually gotten more violent than before, as they now are able to wage war on a larger scale.

[@Pillarofcreation1]

The funniest part about this argument to me is always the fact that Tolkien specifically created Orcs as an evil non-human race because he thought it would be wrong to depict a race of men as exclusively evil. If you identify with Orcs then you are identifying with inhumanity.

[@lususnaturae881]

"Created Orcs" You do realize tolkien never created Orcs right? The word was historically used to represent fictional humans of unspeakable evil. For fucks sake the word "Orc" was created to name the god "Orcus" the roman god of fucking DEATH.

[@Helem5XG]

@@lususnaturae881 First: Orcus is confusing because the names change between eras going fron Morta to Hades, to Orcus or Pluto Second: Maybe discuss his point and not only the semantics of the word "Create"

[@Pillarofcreation1]

Popularized Orcs, chose to use Orcs, whatever. Without Tolkien we wouldn't be talking about Orcs and how they're a different species and not a race of people to be judged as people.

[@lususnaturae881]

@@Pillarofcreation1 That's a lot of stupid assumptions and honestly this being your only argument is fuckin stupid. "Recognizing rasism is racist!" is still completely stupid in this context. The fuckin MAKER of the games being complained about said they saw the racist stereotypes and removed them. Don't die on this "IT WAS NEVER RACIST" hill, it's not worth it.

[@lususnaturae881]

@@Helem5XG The POINT being that the word originated in use as term for a "almost always evil human creature" and went on to be used by certain creators to contain racist stereotypes. Saying "WEll, someone who used this word once said it wasn't intended to be racist" doesn't mean that it was never used in a racist manner or for racist purposes. Ironically, the OPPOSITE has happened to the Lovecraft horror genre. It used to be literally filled with racist beliefs due to Lovecraft himself, but has evolved to the modern day to have lost all of those traces. Which is what creators in the modern day are trying to do with orcs.

[@AydinPaladin]

I hated this Extra Credits video. Thanks for dunking on it, man. What a dumb video it was. Also, the absolute absurdity that EC spends all that time complaining about judging Orcs, a fictional creature by descriptors yet is so ready to call others Nazis/Klansmen is palpable.

[@blazichaos7181]

I laughed my ass of when they talked about how apparently wearing a uniform or cult robes, with no indication of if they are doing this because they were conscripted, or maybe cultist who were magically dominated by the big bad evil monsters power (maybe even released if said evil monster dies) and god know the million of the intricate reasons we as a mentally complex species end up in certain situations (let alone when magics involved) which we may not agree with, is apparently less morally grey then just having creatures which are evil by nature and can you easily assume they want to murder you and your family.

[@booleah6357]

@@blazichaos7181 also if someone rushes you with a knife you don't stop to think about their life story and have a therapy session about why their life turned out this way. No you stab them back lol.

[@jacobqueen3113]

The "Orks" video by EC makes me think of "Biological Essentialism" vs "Critical Race Theory". The Pepsi and Coke of Racist generalism. The people who champion either are identitarians and therefore always gonna become prejudiced. Seems like it would be a problem for the "Progressives" who claim to be trying to end racism. No, they can just change the definition of "Racism" to something other than being a prejudice based on race!

[@AkaiSuzume]

Pretty much what I was thinking throughout the video. For all his talk of trying to understand and not make blanket judgment about someone, these are the same people who will label you with 15 different buzzwords in the same breath.

[@devildavin]

@@AkaiSuzume because they don't want to be argued with, they just want to be right, they love the sound of their own voice, they want to talk at you and not to you.

[@lovethatdarkness]

"All orcs bad. All elves good." Elder Scrolls and The Witcher entered the chat.

[@KopperNeoman]

Elder Scrolls orcs are variant elves, like Middle Earth's. Except that they're not evil by nature.

[@poliwag9570]

I play elder Scrolls games, and elves are rude; not wood elves though, they're legit.

[@poliwag9570]

@TheMagicMudkip Its probably why they're the nicest of all elves, to many bodies to eat if they were mean.

[@toolatetothestory]

@@poliwag9570 You know, why be rude if you never lack food? You got all you need.

[@GreyWolfLeaderTW]

More so Elric of Melnebone (which the Witcher ripped off).

[@MauLerYT]

A Ragu is never late, nor is he early... He destroys Extra Credits precisely when he means to.

[@TheRedThirst]

Looooong loooooong maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnn!!!

[@silverfox8209]

the plushies are absolutely adorable

[@coltonwhite2518]

The long man cometh after releasing the long lost shib from his basement.

[@CruelestChris]

Your love of the halflong's leaf has clearly clouded your mind.

[@AimlessSavant]

There be a longoid among us.

[@manboy4720]

"orcs murdered my entire family and set fire to my village." "well come on, they're not *that* bad." "they're literally chopping my arms off and eating them." "maybe they didn't choose to eat your arms?"

[@lususnaturae881]

If we're going to mark a a group "always evil" based on how vile the acts of them have ever beenn.... *Looks at crusades*. Mm. Hm. Guess humanity goes in the dumpster fire.

[@darwinspain4831]

@@lususnaturae881 but there not real though so who cares

[@AdeodatusX]

@@lususnaturae881 just say you like orcs behind close doors already

[@Crazybark]

@@lususnaturae881 Dude, humanity IS evil. your point?

[@lususnaturae881]

@@Crazybark ok pizza cutter.

[@silverscorpio24]

Remember: These are the same guys that said you're a terrible person if you play as a Naughtzi in a WWII game

[@Thalanox]

Even before this, they drank the Anti-GamerGate kool-aid back in the day. They joined with the SJWs in their counter-factual insanity and said that it was about hating women instead of being about wanting journalistic ethics and disliking corruption in the gaming media.

[@michaelmazey3322]

Also, let's be real here. Remove any historical context and everyone with any appreciation for aesthetics would pick the Nazi uniform. Change my mind.

[@silverscorpio24]

@@michaelmazey3322 It's true. I've always liked dark gray and black with red and white accents.

[@CBRN-115]

@@michaelmazey3322 their uniforms did look badass ngl

[@redseagaming7832]

That's actually one of the reasons why I unsubscribe from extra credits last year there are some stories where the Orcs in the humans do make peace but it's a rare occurrence when one side wants to kill the other

[@ezwins7971]

Wait till they find out Warhammer Fantasy has bigger more violent orcs called "Black Orc's"

[@liamzakhaev]

oh now that just seems deliberate

[@colt4preacher549]

@@liamzakhaev no your just racist

[@liamzakhaev]

@@colt4preacher549 I'm black you twit

[@colt4preacher549]

@@liamzakhaev if your reason for not being racist is based on color your racist stfu racist

[@harbl99]

@@liamzakhaev Nah. It's another borrowing straight from Tolkien. The bigger, burly Orcs who lived in Mordor -- the Black Land -- were called black orcs. GW copypasted it in the 80s, then 'adapted' it to their own thing later.

[@Pulmonox]

Orcs today, Demons tomorrow. Then we're literally in a situation where people on this planet would un-ironically create those pre-recorded messages from Doom Eternal about the 'mortally challenged'.

[@dibberz-v1z]

sadly the woketards in the doom community are already doing that, saying the demons are actually good because "they are a force of nature" and the uac are the real bad guys cuz captalism

[@thebigyes8482]

@@dibberz-v1z The UAC are clearly antagonists. But yeah of course the demons are not good.

[@TheMinidow]

@@dibberz-v1z The demons literally invade rather than just shutting the door...

[@MadsterV]

@@dibberz-v1z well, the woke always identify with villains so no surprise there. Still no "are we the baddies?" moment yet, sadly

[@harbl99]

"Corporate said to let them through."

[@starburst98]

Goblins in goblin slayer world are inherently evil, but even then the slayer admits there could possibly be a good goblin somewhere, but he just can't risk it, so he has to kill even the baby goblins.

[@gregdaweson4657]

I think of it as #notall, but #enough.

[@grandarkfang_1482]

@@gregdaweson4657 #notallbutenough

[@TheSlammurai]

Can't he just raise the baby goblins to be good?

[@simonnachreiner8380]

@@TheSlammurai Eh lot of work for a goblin that very well may just become another monster. Also if you actually watch the series you'll know that goblins are a single sex race and they reproduce with (how do I say this and not risk the YT overlords...) uh less than willing candidates

[@hstapler4931]

@@TheSlammurai Not possible by any stretch of imagination, since Orcbolg's entire purpose is eradicating them, which makes him a rather bad candidate for a parent of a member of said race. Even logistically, raising enough good goblins to make a difference is completely out of the question, there's just too much of evil goblins around, it wouldn't change shit.

[@anemyclake1256]

"Orcs are black people" meanwhile the black people in Skyrim: 😐

[@j-don5228]

Redguards, and to add to that, I love the way races are handled in Elder Scrolls

[@zeche8477]

Ahh the elder scrolls, where every race is racist, genocide is a beloved pastime and an insane demi-god killed a bunch of furries because their ears were pointy.

[@ralcogaming7674]

@@zeche8477 I play as a wood elf...we eat people so I think they earned their hatred.

[@PunkZombie1300]

@@ralcogaming7674 In all fairness it's not like they go out killing people just to eat them (unless they follow Namira), they just don't want to be wasteful of anything, even their own meat. Also I haven't delved deep into the wood elf lore but I'm pretty sure they don't eat other races out of respect, unless it's like a war situation or something else specific like that.

[@ralcogaming7674]

@@PunkZombie1300 no they will eat other races its why they avoid war. They don't want to eat that many corpses. Wood elves have amazing lore sadly we will never get a game set in valenwood

[@_Cosmo_]

Y'know, it's funny. During the segment where the subject of "evil by nature" and "evil by choice" is brought up, I kinda laughed because, of all games and of all characters, The Handler from Monster Hunter: World makes a strong argument for why something being evil by nature is extremely simple. If/when you beat Alatreon, The Handler tells you about how Alatreon can only live in desolate climates because it's power over the elements is so unrestrained that it messes with the ecosystem, reducing everything to ruin. She even says something to the effect of "As much as I want to co-exist with these monsters, is it truly possible to do so if a monster like Alatreon exists?" She acknowledges that the Fifth Fleet's operations in MHW could be considered harmful by some, and to some extent must consider it herself, but also acknowledges that sometimes some monsters need to be put down for the greater good of everyone, even the monsters. For a franchise whose stories in the core games is considered 'kinda meh' by even die hard fans, it seems to understand this basic fucking concept better than a channel dedicated to media analysis and pop culture.

[@KoylTrane]

Monster hunter was always about fixing the eco system by studying and eliminating the monsters that are ruining it.

[@phantomgoblin5540]

Also add on the fact that Alatreon is in the "Black Dragon" category in MonHon and these are basically heralds of death/world enders, so your not looking at a worst case deforestation Australian/California wildfire. No we are talking like continent at worst and countries at best levels of destruction

[@domc9801]

@@phantomgoblin5540 MH is great because the enemy is balance and how to keep it, some monsters need to be controlled but restraint is also a big part of it, when hunters killed too many monsters a black dragon did the same back. Nergigante is actually like us but more base and bare bones, he’s literally made to kill problems and we should be lucky he doesn’t really see the hunters as one as it’s been shown to be smart enough to use us.

[@Nickle_King]

It all comes down to the fact that when these people talk about "Evil", they don't actually know what they're talking about. They think "Evil" means things like "Bad" "Cruel" and "Antagonist". Which CAN be true, but those words are not conclusive. Evil is not a made up term, but it's also not simple. Evil is a term used to describe, what I like to call, Negative Social Cohesion. Whether mindful or not, a person, creature, or species that can be described as Evil is one that only takes from it's environment and gives nothing back with no care for cooperation. A race of raiding, marauding murderers taking things others have bought and worked for for no better reason than "It makes us stronger" and "It's fun" is Evil. A business that deliberately runs out all competition or uses it's superior position to eat up every business it can is Evil. An person who was hurt lashing out at others for revenge is Evil. You can say things like "They're just trying to survive" and "It's effective" and "It's understandable", but that doesn't mean it's not Evil. Evil is not only the action of preying on everyone else for selfish gain, but it's also the inflexible in the face of compromise. It's a tricky thing to label because it's all about intention and motivation. It's like the difference between a Predator and a Monster. A Predator kills because it needs to eat and feed it's own. A Monster kills because it can. From the viewpoint of the prey, it can be hard to tell the difference, but from a third party, or someone wise and informed, they can see the difference clear as day. Never fool yourself that Evil doesn't exist. It does. Many people have forgotten what "Evil" even means. It's not a nebulous term. It exists. Honestly, it's pretty rampant in the gaming industry for a while now. People have just become complacent. Too enamored in their own little worlds to care about anything else going on around them.

[@joumero7493]

@@Nickle_King Could I add something to this description of evil? From the examples you give it could be argued that evil is subjective because the marauder that’s stealing from others could honestly view it as a cultural or even moral value to go on raids, a value which just differs from others. Wouldn’t it be objective to say that evil is when you apply one rule to yourself and another to others? For example if you think it’s good to kidnap and steal you *must* also be okay with that happening to you unless you are evil. If you think only the strongest businesses should survive as you run others into bankruptcy you *must* be okay with it happening to you unless you are evil. My point is, we can all be certain that an action is evil of even the evil person doesn’t want it to happen to them. Only then can we know that it doesn’t depend on the other’s mind.

[@cp1cupcake]

"Basing morality by nationality is evil" later "unless they are Germans in the 1930-40s" You got some inconsistency there mate.

[@jackalenterprisesofohio]

I wasn't paying that (edit: much) attention was that Rags or Extra Credits.

[@timewarpdrive77]

@@jackalenterprisesofohio Are you dense..

[@jackalenterprisesofohio]

@@timewarpdrive77 well, Are you going to answer the question?

[@donkiwi4888]

@@jackalenterprisesofohio you had 14 hours to rewatch the video yourself by now.

[@timewarpdrive77]

@@jackalenterprisesofohio Beside the point that if you actually watched the video, you'd know... I mean, you don't have to watch it intently to figure out which side would say which..... Get a better attention span mate. Its obviously extra credits who said that bullshit about Nazis not being people or whatnot..

[@Warmaka]

"Don't color an entire group of people with a single brush, that's unrealistic and stupid! Also, all these people are evil because they wear particular clothing." -Braindead Credits

[@alwaysangry2232]

more like what they claim to be proyecting onto others

[@TwoPlusTwoEqualsFive32]

Or "Don't color an entire group of people with a single brush, that's unrealistic and stupid! Also, all these people are evil because their skin doesn't have much melanin."

[@hildegunstvonmythenmetz6095]

It depends on what this clothing is. If it has a Swastika on it...

[@MaticTheProto]

@@hildegunstvonmythenmetz6095 how do you know? Maybe the person is actually nice! Did you not watch the video?

[@SOLIDShift_VI]

@@MaticTheProto Nice and good are not the same. Anyone can act nice -- but that doesn't mean they're good. I'll give three examples;; A nazi can be "nice" to everyone, even the people they hate, but still hate them and wish for genocide and death upon them. They might be a "nice person", but they are NOT good. Another example is "nice guys";; men who claim to be nice and ACT very nice, but then when they're rejected by someone they were "nice" to, they turn on them, harass them, or become otherwise very not nice. Because they're not a good person. They're "nice-ness" is a form of manipulation. I could go on but I think ya get it. The last example is more extreme;; any serial killer could be nice, in fact many in history have been very nice and charismatic on the outside, but they were NEVER good. Nice and good are NOT the same. . .

[@oliouly2070]

As a certain deformed dark lord once said: “Long have I waited…”

[@Progection]

All hail Darth Jar Jar.

[@jaffarebellion292]

@@Progection He's the key to all of this.

[@leakyboat224]

Somehow Rag's returned...

[@pontiusporcius8430]

@@jaffarebellion292 Just wait until extra credits finds Stargate, their minds will be blown.

[@jaffarebellion292]

@@pontiusporcius8430 Yes Extra Credits, the Goa'uld are inherently evil, megalomaniacal, greedy, vain, and narcissistic. No, the Tok'ra don't count. They're outliers.

[@ShinePaw101]

Warning extreme example; "What if I have an EVIL character that r*pes babies." "Wait why they gotta be EVIL tho?" - this argument

[@chommp]

The debate was not about **if** a character could be inherently evil though, but rather if it was “good writing”. So that argument doesn’t really apply.. now on the other hand none of extra credits’ arguments applied either soooo…

[@ThriftEGaming]

Funny you mentioned the hard R word. A major fairly recent example I thought of that explores the moral implications of an inherently evil race on a setting, while keeping them evil, is Goblin Slayer. Which a lot of people who occupy a similar... social sphere... to Extra Credits were very offended by. Rags doesn't watch animu though, so he wouldn't have thought of that one.

[@ThriftEGaming]

@@chommp That was kind of a smokescreen though.

[@PeterDivine]

Yeah! Maybe they're just looking for a cure to their AIDS!

[@LowReedExpert1]

@@ThriftEGaming I also thought of Goblin Slayer while watching this. The damn goblins literally. Demonstrate intrinsic evil through their biology with rape being 100% necessary for them to reproduce. You can't redeem something like that, there aren't good ones, only an evil race

[@tomcruise1492]

The problem is that they're taking human racial differences that are like: lighter skin vs darker skin to fictional racial differences where they're completely different species as cats and dogs are different

[@alizard7617]

It’s a weird border case where some can produce halfsies. I.E. half-orcs and half-elves It can depend on setting, but for the most part it’s separate species not races.

[@KopperNeoman]

Even when crossbreeds are viable, they're still different subspecies. Nobody calls a lion and tiger different races of the same species because ligers exist.

[@HotPinkst17]

I think the problem he identified is that making a whole race easily stereotypical is problematic af as well as too simple to offer a player immersive reality. Usually we know of no way someone could be essentially evil. Even if someone were evil to us, many others would have another perspective on it and categorize it differently. People are complex, have histories that shape us, and the situations we are in bring out our good or bad qualities. Given this, over simplifying imaginary races to be just what the worst racists say about people in this world is a call back to the wrong side of history. Luckily every GM I've ever seen makes orcs terrible beastly products of trauma and poor environments believably enough. Given what most orcs have to go through to reach maturity, it's fair to say any human going through the same thing would be a beastly warlike violent cannibal as well.

[@TheFifthHorseman_]

@@HotPinkst17 The game gives the players and GMs a toolbox. What they do with it is up to them. There's room for settings where orcs are irredeemable pure evil as much as ones where they're stock antagonists... and ones where they're heroic freedom fighters against the tyranny of Light. Pushing for a single interpretation because someone got it in their head Orcs are a stand-in for Black Americans is ridiculous.

[@HotPinkst17]

@@TheFifthHorseman_ Truly

[@TimPortantno]

"It's wrong to 'otherise' groups into disposable, dehumanized enemies. That's what the Nazis did." Extra Credit plays a WW2 game: "WTF, Nazis can only be the bad guys! You can't play as Nazis!"

[@lakshaykochhar6799]

At least, they're consistent about that.

[@badunius_code]

And the soldiers who on the fields of war shoot nazis without considering if this particular nazi soldier may actually be a good one? Terrible people...

[@booperdee2]

i would love a game playing as a german soldier in ww2. The lufftwaffe banned its members from joining the nazi party, so make it so a pilot gets downed behind enemy lines and has to fight his way back to germany

[@purpleemerald5299]

@@booperdee2The closest thing I can think of off the top of my head is “The Last Tiger” from Battlefield V. So not a very high bar to pass.

[@JohnWilliamNowak]

I'd suggest that being on the losing side of a war is better suited to a game. Generally, as time passes the game gets more difficult, while if you're on the winning side, the game would get easier as the enemy collapses.

[@mariokarter13]

"I have written the entire script for The Force Awakens analysis, it just needs to be recorded and edited." - MauLer, 2018

[@forere9207]

Don't be such a massive. He's getting to it.

[@MauLerYT]

True to this day and you shall have your remaining parts in the years to come.

[@CruelestChris]

@@MauLerYT Wait, you're the one with my remaining parts? I wondered where those had got to.

[@jerm70]

MauLer needs Superberries and EFAP makes the money. You can't expect MauLer or Rags to not take the easy and profitable route before they make a long form video with little to no monetization. At the very least if you want to know anything wrong with modern Star Wars you have at least a week's worth of content. 168 hours worth at least on EFAP alone.

[@davoodoo8042]

@@MauLerYT right in time for tfa remaster, its coming we all know it.

[@Aero3691]

“It’s AT BEST lazy” Yeah, all that lore and world-building for the Skaven, literally the most evil things in Warhammer, all the work that went into the characters and how a society like that can even function without destroying itself? Lazy.

[@lordvonsteiner2452]

Nah, man. Lore is irrelevant if they're evil...i guess.

[@barryward2128]

I like how in warhammer you have literal demons walking around and the fluffy rats are the worst

[@terratheterribl]

Skaven are some of the most creative fictional races in fantasy.

[@emile1365]

@@terratheterribl AoS' version is terrible, overly simplified and flanderized but then again I wouldn't consider AoS much of a setting in the first place. Still has it's fans, I just prefer the Fantasy version.

[@terratheterribl]

@@emile1365 agreed on all points

[@I.Fumblebee.I]

Long story short: "The entire industry is racist an I alone stand as a protector of the poor minorities that were never offended in the first place!"

[@senormonkey98]

While ironically saying in a roundabout way “we think that African-American people look like Orcs”

[@travisbishop782]

@@senormonkey98 which is fucked up!

[@senormonkey98]

@@travisbishop782 Exactly!!! It’s as if this people are so far up their ass that EVERYTHING has to be about race. I’m 1/2 chinese-mexican descent, never in my life I’ve ever thought that I had to care about race at all. I don’t see goblins as Jewish ppl (yes, I’ve heard MANY of these people making the connection) nor do I see Orcs as african americans, it’s disgusting how they’re so offended on the behalf of people that weren’t even offended with something to begin with, if anything THEY are the racists for making a connection with a race of beastmen, they must be the most fun people at parties I swear.

[@Gamsterjeff600]

The fact that he goes that all elves are good is hilarious when in most fictional stories/games they are not friendly.

[@Xo-3130]

Whats weird is that the modern depictions of Orcs (Tolkien) are just Elves who are naturally evil.

[@e.c.winner7252]

Elves are usually arrogant assholes

[@Mr_Monolith]

They're very often portrayed as elitist snobby types.

[@MatthaisUnidostres]

Thalmor.

[@TaiidanOnslaught]

“I’m not going to make this about racism” First line, paraphrased: “Your characters could be racist” 10/10

[@TheMaleRei]

Worse, because the personal is the political, because every action is a political action, I would posit that it's more: "Your characters could be racist - therefore you are probably racist."

[@HazzronIV]

@@TheMaleRei Didn't he have a rather racist image of an ork in his video? Doesn't that mean he's racist for platforming hateful content?

[@TheMaleRei]

@@HazzronIV See, you're making the mistake of attempting to hold him to his own standards. Because their standards only apply to wrong thinkers. And because they don't care about hypocrisy. They see it as a "lul don't care bro!" like Vaush - who openly admitted that lying is a good thing - so long as "his side" wins.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

I'm not a racist. But I would be okay playing a racist. That doesn't mean it immediately turns me into one. In fact, it probably would make me less of a racist, because I get to experience it. And especially creative media can function of a tool for escapism. What if I want to be the murderous, racist, xenophobic scumbag for a day? I mean, I killed many people in many games in many ways, but that doesn't mean I want to do it irl. It only means I get to experience something I won't or can't actually do. So yes, I'm fine with having a racist character in a movie or a book or a game. Because I know it is only a character in fiction. Because I know how to differentiate fictional worlds from the real one I live in.

[@eriksvoboda6973]

DM: "There is a vat of acid before you, if you move forward, you will die." Player: "I. move. Forward." DM: "You died." Player: "i'LL dEciDe tHAt." DM: "No, you won't."

[@Demonlord242]

Ahp, you forgot the cooky and crazy natty 20 that defies basic chemistry.

[@YourPalKindred]

"Fine. Roll a con saving throw" *dice roll noise* "Uhh, that's a Nat twenty plus... Plus seven" *DM sighs* "You all watch as your friend sinks into the bubbling acid, his skin sizzling as the solution eats away at him. Soon, he is entirely engulfed. You think for a moment, is he dead? But your worries are put to rest almost immediately, as a skinless hand grabs the other side of the vat and pulls out your friend. Despite the lack of any and all skin covering their muscles, you can tell they are stone-faced. They do not flinch, or scream, they simply stare at you unblinking, on account of their lack of eyelids"

[@manboy4720]

@@Demonlord242 "surprisingly, you ended up landing in a giant pool of rotten milk. you lose 20 sanity due to the horrendous stench."

[@soulsearcher9620]

@@YourPalKindred Or the "Do I roll with advantage?" when things look dire. Gotta ramp things up for my game with my friends. Been a little too nice to them, although they did just make themselves enemies of an entire country.... So that's gonna be fun next week.

[@commisaryarreck3974]

@@Demonlord242 "To the astonishment of everyone observing it you walk across the vat of acid without it harming you, it appears the [enter god] was amused enough by your foolhardiness to help you"

[@jackrogue2456]

It's so dissapointing Rags. Truly you've fallen low... a group of zombies is called a horde. Jeez

[@Kylesico912x]

I thought they were called a "throw the goddamn molotov Ellis!". Learn something new every day.

[@drakkenmensch]

How about a Walking Dead of Zombies?

[@monkey_blu]

I thought it was an "outing".

[@kitkat2849-b3h]

orgy?

[@nadrewod999]

I personally like referring to them as a "graveyard of zombies", but a "horde" is a lot less circumstantial.

[@alexsamurai1230]

The Krogan Genophage was one of the most stimulating ethical conversations in gaming and that was built on the issue of bioessentialism.

[@sayLeotardbutsayitChinese]

Clearly you're patently evil. If you don't let the Krogan female and her baby live the lives of sex-slave princesses so that their race can once again threaten to conquer all other sentient planets, you sir, are a racist....... or something.

[@Daniel_C_Griffin]

I love Mordin's loyalty mission in ME2 due to the debates you can have surrounding the Genophage.

[@collinfulling3223]

As much as I love deep, nuanced, and complicated worlds: sometimes you just wanna kill a demon

[@rgama1173]

Sometimes you just want to commit unaltered actions of violence without any moral getting on the way

[@collinfulling3223]

Idk, I really think the deep moral, philosophical, and ethical questions posed by GTA really add to the universe don’t you agree?

[@rgama1173]

@@collinfulling3223 yeah man, that's what this is all about

[@lordvonsteiner2452]

I would argue that even having a straight up evil demon race in your setting could also potentially open itself up for nuanced discussions.

[@rgama1173]

@@lordvonsteiner2452 about the choices we make in life and how some do chose to become as evil as demons without being born that way

[@SallinKari]

"No one has heard of James Mendez Hodes." That's not fair. I'm sure his mother is at least vaguely aware of his existence.

[@chowjappa6470]

Questionable, prob a fat single mother that had bad gas and shart him out then walked away lol.

[@theclimbto1]

We called. She hasn't a clue who he is.

[@travisbishop782]

Ha!

[@grumpyold-man8302]

Not so fast!!!!

[@soulsearcher9620]

Is her name Martha too?

[@CrazyChiv]

They said our doggo ran away from home. We said: "Nah, he's just out wandering. Be patient - he knows the way back." Today our dog came home. Welcome back Rags.

[@fluff6811]

The only doggo to return from the butterfly farm

[@ethanmoon3925]

The "Nazis/Klansman" part of Rags video is more sensitive and nuanced than Extra Credits entire vid.

[@jtallen6406]

That’s because Rags is more interested in being a good person instead of just virtue signaling.

[@MasterNegaTech]

@@jtallen6406 Virtue signaling is for the twits.

[@SidAlpha]

Glad to see you back, man.

[@Volker_A4]

inconsistent upload schedule squad. (I'll be there whenever y'all do post somethin though)

[@eskaflorence5659]

Welcome back, old friend 🐕

[@Zonalar]

Oh dang, hey Sid! it's been frikking ages. Hope you and your channel is doing well! I'll check out your recent videos =)

[@thebearthingshow]

Dont call it a comeback!

[@SidAlpha]

@@Zonalar My upload schedule's been horrendously bad. But thank you!

[@zuko9085]

"Hey they are evil, but at least they're diverse!" Honestly this has become the common practice in modern fiction. Which is why there have been a sudden burst of black female officers in various evil empires.

[@bryan81584]

I've noticed that too...You take an evil seemingly race obsessed evil empire and shove in some diversity that don't seem to fit in at all in the evil empire. Also makes them really hard to differentiate. You get all these various groups of people that are supposed to be unique and different, but their depictions are not.

[@ArchieRatsworth]

I think Wonderwoman had a good perspective on the enemy faction : those in the trenches were desperate and starving young men who were forced to fight for their country, while those behind them in the positions of power were seeing them as a resource and developing weapons of extreme cruelty to murder entire cities of people. Funny how that could apply to other factions in a following war, isn't it?

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

I mean, they gotta have some diversity, right? Because what are they some kind of... evil assholes??

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

@@ArchieRatsworth And it isn't even a piece of fiction, the frontline thing. The Christmas truce of 1914 was real.

[@wagz781]

The reason they never presented evidence was because they still believe they are speaking from a point of authority. Which means they still believe they don't need to present evidence.

[@petriew2018]

let's be honest, they never presented evidence because they have none The only people who see orcs as black people are either closet racists or, like i heavily suspect with our friend Mendez, have deep seated personal insecurities about their own mixed heritage and thus project their hypersensitivity about race to literally everything because they have a problem they aren't dealing with... meaning that actually searching for evidence would force them to confront ugly truths they're actively trying to avoid They avoid presenting evidence because they do not wish to actually discuss this that deeply.... they just assume everyone will agree because nobody wants to defend a racist, right?

[@Saint_Wolf_]

The evidence for this stands against them. That's the best part, black people from Africa were not really war mongers like that, locally in their country or continent, yes, but across other regions and borders, that's left for the Ottomans, the Persians, the Mongols, the Arabs and the Europeans (the inquisition), so yea, if they think black people and orcs have one thing in common, that's just their racism speaking, Mongols on the other hand… 🤔

[@chowjappa6470]

Hmmm I always thought it was because retardation... humans should question authority so that's would be a weird pillar to stand on

[@DudeTheMighty]

"I don't need to show evidence because it's not my job to educate you." That's how these types operate.

[@Saint_Wolf_]

@@DudeTheMighty **Proceeds to make outrageous claims under the implication of bad character against you**

[@ShouOokami]

Everytime Rags said "it can't be reasoned with" I expected a follow up of "It doesnt feel pity, or remorse."

[@RezaQin]

And like leftists, it will not stop ever, until you are dead!

[@mattchamp1541]

Oh you mean the town rat?

[@TheSlammurai]

@@RezaQin They will never eat. They will never sleep. And they will never stop.

[@TOONYBOY]

@@TheSlammurai "Didn't you hear him? No mortal weapon can kill this guy" "Well I suppose we'll just have to find some IMmortal ones then"

[@sigmacademy]

Has anyone else noticed that the "games can hurt people with appropriations and the like" is just a variation of "video games are violent" argument? Except it has been expanded to include literature, entertainment, hobbies, culture and society? :/

[@Nickle_King]

This coming from a group that used to champion "Because Games Matter" to fight against this kind of shit. Don't know what they started smoking over at EC headquarters but it's some toxic shit.

[@sandtrap175]

@@Nickle_King they switched channel owners at one point, and it has been a downward spiral ever since

[@Sammysapphira]

@@sandtrap175 it's always been awful.

[@mikloshujber1452]

@@Sammysapphira Yeah, but it's EVEN WORSE now.

[@Nickle_King]

@@Sammysapphira No dude. They used to be the only hopeful, positive voice in the industry. They weren't usually comprehensive, but they highlighted good practices and called out the industry on bad ones. And since each member actually worked or has worked in the industry at different levels, it wasn't just some mouthpieces whining. You know all the scandals and abuses that are coming to a head now? They made people aware of it a decade ago. They were the only people genuinely trying to teach about game design and good mindsets to be in when writing and designing. And no one I know of has come close to teaching as impartially as they used to. The channel that was annoyed because they couldn't use the Swastika in a history lesson because it was an incorrect portrayal of history. You are just wrong dude. Extra Credits may not have been your cup of tea, and that's fine, but your just flat out wrong.

[@anixprophet1966]

Almost like arguing the difference between “evil” and “feral”. Being evil is a choice, but being feral isn’t. EDIT: for clarification; I was referring to the slimes and xenomorph.

[@macabweu7682]

This is exactly what they don't understand. In most mythologies (There are some that don't do this) but in most, Orcs are just feral creatures. They're a lot like Chimps. They're smarter then the rest of the pack but concepts like Morality are things they don't care about because their brains aren't developed enough for such things.

[@Uradamus]

@@macabweu7682 I can't agree with this. In nearly all of the classic and most important fantasies that popularized orcs they are fully sentient - capable of proper communication, forming and maintaining communities, crafting tools of war, and strategizing against their enemies. They are usually the creations of malevolent gods with the express purpose of being used as the foil to the creations of the other gods they are warring with. Typically at their core they lust for battle and use all of their strength, cunning and guile to best their enemies. Often to the extent that they don't prioritize anything other than battle; leading them to sustain themselves on the spoils of war and reusing the remains of the settlements they've sacked as their fortifications while choosing their next target, which often leaves them seeming more primitive and unsophisticated, but few tend to rival them when it comes to warcraft.

[@-Zakhiel-]

@@Uradamus So Orcs are not africans... They're mongols ? :p

[@MrDj232]

@@-Zakhiel- Or Vikings. Or literally any nomadic warlike group in human history.

[@ethanhinton4549]

@@macabweu7682 I think OP was talking more about the slime and xenomorph examples...

[@jons5478]

Remember in the movie The Dark Knight, when the Joker takes the Doctors and Nurses captive and has his henchmen switch clothing with them and tape guns to their hands? The Extra credits solution would have had Batman beat the shit out of them unquestioning because they were "dressed as the bad guys"

[@christiangonzalez6945]

thats actually the oposite of what extra credits is saying, "remember the last campaing when the evil dudes cast some illusions to make bystanders look like orcs and the pally just charged because orcs" its funny seeing your comment after one of terry pratchet warning about the snakes behind the meaning of words

[@KopperNeoman]

Yes, Extra Credits IS advocating for "charge the man dressed how I don't like, protect the evil orc because I relate to him." That is an effective use of intrinsically evil races in your world, mind. Illusion good men to look like them.

[@aria5614]

I remember back when extra credits were more nuanced, they released a video worrying about how the hoodie was being used to denote people as villains. This was right around when BLM was founded and several black kids wearing hoodies were shot. That worrying trend had been translated into a game. This feels like the opposite of that. Where they were worrying about propaganda in games that could affect the real world, here they are worrying about fake things that developers have to go out of their way to correlate to the real world.

[@taffysaur]

@@aria5614 What were the black kids in the hoodies doing immediately before they were shot?

[@kyletimmons2940]

@@taffysaur In the case of Tamir Rice, pointing a gun at police officers. He'd been walking around a park threatening anyone he met with a gun. Police arrived to investigate "a man in a hooded sweatshirt with a gun" and saw Tamir with his gun out. They pulled their guns and told him to drop his weapon, but he instead pointed his gun at the police, who then shot and killed him. Turns out Tamir was 12 and the gun was a toy he'd modified to look real.

[@MLNeidig]

>"All of us normal people" >Is a furry Only a technical foul so I'll allow it.

[@bluebandanna4849]

Lel

[@RezaQin]

In furry circles, he's pretty normal.

[@kaical8273]

@@RezaQin in the human species circle he isn't.

[@fox_in_michigan8716]

i know this is semantics, but rags' character isn't really anthropomorphic enough to be a fursona, its just a dog with human like expressions. a furry would be more human-like in terms of body structure.

[@PWaldo-lw2ds]

@@fox_in_michigan8716 I'm four months late to the party which is a year old, I'm 85% certain Rags has come out -as- a furry. As in, an individual within the furry community. Has nothing to do with his avatar.

[@SoulSoundMuisc]

40K Orkz... The ONLY faction in 40K that is genuinely having a fantastic and wonderful time.

[@justinbotkin]

I mean, there's an argument to be had about Nids living their best life, from goopy spawn pool to goopy spawn pool.

[@ancientmariner9460]

Especially with stuff painted red ;)

[@lucasfryman4800]

“Oi wake up brotha! It’s time for us to WAAAAAAAAGH!!!”

[@thatguyonyoutube2063]

The Orkz basically live in a music video for that party party party remix from hellsing abridged

[@PeachDragon_]

They're the least corrupt and technically most good natured in their own ways

[@xhxhxhxchchchch6901]

Guess who’s back, back again, Rags is back, grab lotion!

[@asdasd-ty9se]

Lube would be more appropriate, seems as the target is xtracredit

[@xhxhxhxchchchch6901]

@@asdasd-ty9se quite possibly

[@magoichi75]

Wat

[@un9286]

@Xhxhxhx Chchchch tell your friends

[@jeffraven]

Hol’ up.

[@mediocrestreams3284]

I wouldn't really describe the xenomorph as "evil" it's just an animal trying to survive and propagate its species. Its methods just happen to be horrific Also, a group of zombies is called a horde

[@Foxxie0kun]

Just like botflies, mango worms, and tarantula hawk wasps (All of them lay their eggs in a way that the larvae feed upon a host organism until they pupate).

[@Anthonyspartan514]

True but to you and I they are evil

[@CruelestChris]

@@Anthonyspartan514 I dunno, in a lot of media related to the franchise the Aliens are just kind of doing their thing, and it's Weyland-Yutani that's being actively evil.

[@JohnDoe-nf7up]

@@CruelestChris the xenomorphs were more like man eating lions than anything that could be considered evil. Terrifying monsters to be killed but not evil

[@Anthonyspartan514]

@@CruelestChris fair enough

[@theEisbergmann]

"All men are potential predators" "How dare you say all orcs are evil!"

[@Numbers1516]

Soy Boy: "Don't worry, I consider myself an ally for persons of color. I know orks aren't all evil, and have the full capacity for good." Ork: "YOUZE TALK FUNNY. MEZ EAT UR LEGZ!"

[@cossackinthesack9110]

Ironically the tau ketp trying to get the Orks to join their empire for a while. I think after the third diplomatic team had all their limbs ripped off they realized it was a lost cause.

[@patrioticcat5768]

"People who didn't do nothing": looks like meats back on the menu, fam

[@ADRooney1]

@@cossackinthesack9110 To be fair, the Tau were doing so because they wanted more fodder. That the Orks come across as unintelligent and easily tricked, is a real bonus (Not the reality, I know, just the impression.). In terms of scale, the Tau is borderline extinct compared to most known species of the WH40k universe. They currently survive by fielding 80% of their total fighting force to every given major engagement. Then, the moment it is over, redeploy it elsewhere. The battles on the ground are largely hit and runs too. This is because the Tau cannot afford to commit to a extended battle, as it would otherwise consume resources desperately needed for the next one. It's a solid combat doctrine, but it largely works only because their territory is small enough that redeploying without warp travel is still viable. So it makes a great deal of sense that the Tau would LOVE a rapidly reproducing close combat specialized race to facetank enemy incursions for them. All the more so, since if it was possible to 'tame' or maintain a longstanding alliance with the Orks, the Tau could 'expand' with little fear of direct reprisal from their adversaries..

[@dd11111]

I don't know why but it soecifically being the legs got a good chuckle out of me.

[@dd11111]

@@ADRooney1 bold of you, and the Tau to belive that the orks are not adversaries.

[@RedwoodTheElf]

“Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder. Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels. Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies. Elves are glamorous. They project glamour. Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment. Elves are terrific. They beget terror. The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning. No one ever said elves are nice. Elves are bad.” - Terry Pratchett: Lords and Ladies

[@adde27]

Sir Terry's depiction of elves (more folkloric elves than the typical fantasy post-Tolkien) is one of my favourites.

[@pinoarias8601]

Everything is the elves' fault.

[@DaMaster012]

"The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning." That metaphor, that prose, that profound wisdom hidden in parable... that passage is so enlightening I'm jealous I didn't think of it.

[@MandoWookie]

@@DaMaster012 Pratchett was a wordsmith. What world class engravers do with filigree he did with prose. And he mostly did it for jokes, but underlying all the humor was a keen sense of the power that the words he used could carry if he used them properly. So when he did it hit all the harder.

[@VirtuesOfSin]

@@adde27 Funnily enough, Tolkien stole a lot from Folklore. lol

[@eriadorranger2196]

An unfortunate update: James Mendez Hodes now works as a consultant for Dungeons and Dragons. Long overdue to abandon ship at this point :/

[@ZenoDovahkiin]

There *_is_* a moral aspect to fighting the inherently evil, just not in the way EC means it. There's a reaason that when you save a village from being overrun by zombies, the people will often celebrate you as a hero.

[@varisugocsay1152]

Yes it is true, in this case you are a hero because you are overcomed a big obsticle with virtue and sthrengh.

[@screwgoogle4993]

@KhorneKob You don't even need to bring up science to discredit a social lie. Just pointing out the social mechanisms behind liberal lies is enough. The rest is a waste of energy that helps them obfuscate via stalling and red herrings.

[@MrDj232]

@KhorneKob Part of it is that in DnD's moral alignment system Orcs are always chaotic evil. However, and this is really important, good/evil moral alignments aren't an absolute statement of morality. They're shorthand for what motivates a character. A chaotic evil creature can absolutely do morally righteous things with the proper motivation (pay, fame, farming experience, etc) and isn't necessarily "evil" in the way we use the term in reality.

[@99Kresnik]

@@MrDj232 Orcs are 'usually' CE in 3.X version of D&D, meaning a large majority. Demons/Devil/etc are Always X Evil, but even then the rules said there might be exceptions, especially with Book of Exalted Deeds and Sanctified/etc templates for various 'redeemed' beings. Older D&D allowed for exceptions to the rule. The only 'canon' essentially evil/etc beings would be beings born from the Outer Planes, as those are alignment based. Even then, by Planescape at the latest (2nd edition) exceptions existed. Some people just really don't like the moral absolutism in Gygax's system, for various reasons. Even though it serves to facilitate gameplay (D&D being derived from war gaming, so Good v Evil taking the place of sides in war, with the ref handling the 'baddies')

[@wastedspam385]

It's funny to me, they're basically calling Tolkien a lazy writer. Tolkien!

[@MouseGoat]

I at least respect the ball it takes to do that... oh wait no they just lack bains never mind. but to be fair, Tolkien is not a writer, he's just a historian reporter :D

[@demonchilde6664]

The man who spends 2 pages describing what his characters are eating. lazy? WHEEEEZE

[@gamerito100]

@@demonchilde6664 Yeah, they are describing as lazy a writer who is often critized for writing too much xDD

[@scorbiot]

Tolkien would probably agree that he should have worked harder, but for a moral reason: if orcs had souls and sapience, then they could be redeemed, then they couldn't be universally evil.

[@MrDj232]

@@MouseGoat Doesn't take any balls to insult a dead man who can't punch back... yet

[@SnakeWasRight]

Extra credits follows suit in the trend of video essayists just repeating their thesis over and over in different ways and never backing it up.

[@rjrowley3887]

"Have I ever told you the definition of insanity?"

[@ardantop132na6]

@@rjrowley3887 Where's Vaas when we need him?

[@ethanmoon3925]

When an ork war party is going to massacre a village, why is it important to know whether they're genetically or culturally evil? We know them by their actions.

[@manfredalbrechtfreiherrvon4042]

based

[@ethanmoon3925]

@EnFATAL If it's cultural, then they are actually intentionally choosing evil. If it's genetic then it's not their fault. (We don't say bears and tigers should be hunted to extinction because of their natural aggression) So it's pretty easy to make the opposite moral argument. I suppose you could conquer them and force them to change their culture - Twitter would still call that genocide. In any case, you can only show mercy if you win, so no matter what they're like you first have to fight them and defeat them.

[@IvanksMW]

love how much of the video EC says "well this races might not be fully evil, give them a chance" but then right at the end they just say "hey but if they have a hood or a SS uniform then they are inherently evil with no chance of redemption" XD

[@blumiu2426]

Extra Credits is like the rich people that went biking in the Middle-East just to taunt...I mean show the world is safe. They didn't come back.

[@colonless7512]

The sad thing is there are many examples of females who go alone backpacking or hitchhiking across MEastern countries to prove that point and they have terrible things happen to them. Hell I could have told them not to do that anywhere and it would still ring true.

[@ericgmortensen]

Sad

[@pyro111100]

@@colonless7512 Honestly I find no problem with them doing that, Darwinism working at its finest.

[@blumiu2426]

@Aggressive Filmmaker 😳damn

[@chazdoomy1512]

What’s a more epic story than homeward bound? The return of rags.

[@herrikudo]

That joke hurts a little but it is not inaccurate

[@mariokarter13]

"EFAP isn't distracting us from our other commitments." - MauLer, who claimed the script for the TFA critique was finished in 2018 - Rags, who hasn't uploaded on the main channel in two years and the side channel for a year

[@herrikudo]

@@mariokarter13 right?

[@garrett3117]

Oh man, the feels from those movies. Mainly 1. #2 was dumb.

[@chazdoomy1512]

@@garrett3117 when I was six it wasn’t dumb.

[@bfranciscop]

"It's fine, it's fiction, we can tell the difference between fantasy and reality" Yes Rags, we can. I'm not so sure about them, and that is the key problem.

[@Aimela136]

To me, racism doesn't start with hating a particular race, it starts with caring way too much about race and making race out to be much more than it needs to be. Race is genetics and appearance, and it doesn't need to be more than that(at least in real life). And while racism is bad and we'll never truly be rid of it, just try not to be hypocritical and claim to be anti-racist while also making everything about race.

[@Neo_Geisha]

Agreed.

[@daviddragongamer7237]

👏👏👏

[@patriciusvunkempen102]

yeah that is why some other group will annihilate you, great. fast is humans organize around genetic similiarity even friendgroups are above average closely related to each other, aka we select for genetic similiarity without noticing. this means that you either start caring about people who are like you or other groups that do will eventualy push you out of your niche, it's not nice, but how biology works. doesn't mean you need to hate other people but be aware that usualy people treat their relatives preferentialy, even if they are only 20th cousinsy you are only 50th cousin.

[@libertusprimus]

But what if your genetics predispose you to criminal or uncivilized behavior?

[@anders6326]

I endorse your view, but one correction: RACE is social, ethnicity is genetics and appearance. Part of beating racism is removing the social oppression and getting people, like you said, to stop distinguishing specific races, good or bad.

[@mandos6145]

still can't believe that they removed negative stats for orcs in D&D, like do people not understand that in a team based game system the absolute best way to promote cohesion among allies is to cover each other's weaknesses? kinda hard to do when you *DON'T HAVE ANY WEAKNESSES!*

[@pureevil9496]

I'm fine with it Lots of players are min-maxing spergs anyway so I as a DM don't mind not having to house-rule out things like that because the errata did it for me Seeing people complain about it only reinforces my opinion that players are very annoying

[@fluidwolf]

@@pureevil9496 That....seems like a very biased take on the matter. Even to a non player it seems like a massive problem to have certain races have no drawbacks to them while others do. It can create a balancing problem for groups that aren't yours or don't do the same as yours

[@pureevil9496]

@@fluidwolf Uh, yeah. That problem is how the game was... before they took away drawbacks for some of the races when others had none. :/ You're agreeing with me.

[@joshuaslawson9125]

@@pureevil9496 Except they clearly weren't agreeing, they stated that what they have done now (i.e making orcs have no weaknesses) is how the game is going to be, Orcs have no weaknesses yet other races do. You misinterpreted this as agreement when your statement assumes none of the races have drawbacks/weaknesses when that is completely and entirely untrue... take for instance Darkvision, it is a great advantage to have in engagements, but it also greyscales the vision, it has a benefit and a drawback, regular vision means needing a torch but being able to see color. Again another benefit with a drawback for balance.

[@paulbutler4321]

@@joshuaslawson9125 wait, I have a question about darkvision, I always thought it was an addition to a races implied normal vision, but they can see in non magical darkness, with that dark vision being in grayscale. That how I interpreted the rules, but is darkvision a complete replacement of a races normal vision? Like can elves only see in grayscale or just when they’re going by their special additional darkvision? Apologies for any grammatical errors or misspellings, my iPad can make typing comments on you tube a real pain.

[@atraxian5881]

I love how literally EVERY TIME someone looks at a fantasy race and thinks "this are clearly (insert real world race here)" it's invariably a woke person. Yet, we normal people are the racists?

[@calemr]

I can point out some similarities between certain real world races, and fictional ones. But without judgement (Almost always.) Orcs, in fact, Are based on a stereotype. But it ain't black people. Shamans, axes, raiding, horned helms, braided hair... They're Vikings. Alternatively, if you look at 40K, they're British football hooligans.

[@ARockRaider]

@@calemr I had never given the idea that orks might be based on a real life culture to think that up, thanks for sharing it! (I had generally dismissed the idea as a racist interpretation from racist viewers trying to push their racism on other things because it's all they think about.)

[@MapleFried]

Depending on where you draw your cultural influences, your orcs can be based on any real-world culture you want. I base mine on the Golden Horde because I like the idea of the Orc in charge being a Khan-esque character; brutal but intelligent.

[@manboy4720]

@@calemr "OI BOSS, DEEZ HUMIES AR SAYINS WE RACIST, LOIKE WE AR SUM REPRISENTAYSHUN OF A EFFNIK MINORITEE" "WOT IN THA NAEM OF GORK AR YOU TALKIN 'BOUT?"

[@beastwarsFTW]

@@calemr I see orcs as every race and nation that fought the Roman Empire in a melting pot.

[@M3LP]

“Holy smokes Batman, he’s back!” “Quick Robin to the bat-theater, we have to see him in 8K!”

[@BlazingShadowSword]

I hope you're happy I read this in Adam West's Batman voice and Burt Ward's Robin voice.

[@lt3746]

@@BlazingShadowSword you absolute legend

[@SuperSwordman1]

@@BlazingShadowSword as you should

[@BNK2442]

These people: "Portraing all orcs as evil is racist." Also these people: "Jordan Peele's Not all men is a great social commentary."

[@asher8754]

Jordan peele is just black Shyamalan he made one good movie but instead of building on it keeps repackaging the same shit only worse each time.

[@ottersirotten4290]

@@asher8754 He DID one good Movie?

[@TheNexDude]

@@asher8754 he is "did you get it!?" if it were a physical person.

[@SuperSwordman1]

@@ottersirotten4290 Get Out was actually pretty good.

[@heatseekerx51]

As a DM, the Orcs in my world are basically the Taliban.

[@LibraritheWizardOfficial]

So, they hold "press conferences" (as much as one can in medieval fantasy) and are willing to negotiate with their enemies, despite being somewhat justified in their anger* at being shafted by the greater powers of the world time and time again? Very nuanced evil race. *the anger is justified, but their barbaric acts aren't necessarily justified too

[@chowjappa6470]

@@LibraritheWizardOfficial if trying to be funny, think u missed it. If feel like supporting them, head over there.... no one is going to care what happens to u

[@dirtcache6128]

No @Chow Jappa you just have a shitty sense of humor.

[@LibraritheWizardOfficial]

@@chowjappa6470 Funny? No, maybe your sense of humor is broken if you saw an attempt at humor in that. I was just being *honest* . They're better diplomats than the US at this point. Do I want to join them? Of course I don't, you imbecile. I'm a Jew. Do you know how fast I'd be killed? NOW I'm starting to think YOU'RE the attempted comedian here.

[@supermaximusfagetti9836]

@@LibraritheWizardOfficial Calm down son, it was a joke. No need to go on a tirade over a KZbin comment.

[@jonathanshowman5988]

"I would rather have to save you then destroy you" goddamnit Rags, YOU'RE a person of value

[@itschad493]

Inb4 Vaush and Taxxon try to take what he said in that part of the video out of context

[@hellacoorinna9995]

"I would rather destroy your ass, Rags" ~ Perfectly legit remark 😈

[@baconboi4482]

Naw destroy extra credits, they ain’t wanna be saved

[@benjamintherogue2421]

@@bigwinz It's pretty hilarious.

[@N0rmandy]

Game: Here are the first lot of mobs for the player to destroy Progressive gamer: "Ill decide that!" Game developer: thats.... not how I designed the game....

[@RogueFox2185]

The Orcs in 40K only want a good fight, at best the Imperium tolerates them until they get a WAAAAGGGHHH going. Chaos on the other hand…

[@bar-elch7809]

Now THOSE are the real black people

[@godpigeon]

@@bar-elch7809 Bio-engineered brawlers!

[@mediocrestreams3284]

And tyranids are purely animalistic. They have no morality. They just want biomass

[@thejestor9378]

@@mediocrestreams3284 and then you have eldar, epitome of our choices make us who we are mixed with circumstances of birth.

[@CruelestChris]

@@thejestor9378 The Eldar did the 40K equivalent of inventing Twitter.

[@thegrim418]

The invented controversy might have driven the blue haired sjw out of our DnD nights, but it did make Old Man Jimkin down the street start playing. And while he does shout the most anti-orc things I've ever heard, he does bring some damn good moonshine and since we've yet to remember how any campaign done this month has ended.

[@lukaszspychaj9210]

Based

[@matthewmatthew981]

"All elves good, all orks bad, root for these folks, not for these folks." Warhammer 40k fans: *holdup*

[@mysteriousmemethief]

'Ate knoife ears 'Ate orks 'Ate muties 'Ate traitors Luv me comisar Luv me taters Luv me emp'ror Simple as

[@RusticRonnie]

warhammer, the Orcs are technically the good guy

[@c0ya1]

Warhammer 40K, where no faction could be considered the 'good' guys. And that's the allure of it.

[@duhbghaill9306]

Extra Credits: That guy in the horror movie who is going to 'make friends' with the monster. Yeah, I've seen how that pans out.

[@TOONYBOY]

Friday the 13th X Jason in Space: It's ok guys, he just wanted his machete back. *Whoo, that was a close one*

[@enderkatze6129]

I wanna See that Work one time, Just to mess with People's expectations. And If it's done Bad I will cry

[@StayFractalesque]

that chick in alien vs predator that starts courting a predator, literally running 'off into the sunset hand in hand' at one point

[@TOONYBOY]

@@StayFractalesque Yeah, except the Predators' were never pure evil. They were sport hunters who only killed people they thought were capable challenges (or actively challenged them like Weyland) and when she put her weapon down it would have been bad sport to kill unarmed prey. Then the other Predators didn't kill her out of respect for the fact that not only did she complete the mission that they sent Predators to complete, she survived where genuinely superior individuals failed. Not only that, but she did all that while trying to preserve the life of the Predator that didn't kill her in the first place. In their eyes, she had earned the right to live

[@Hopekuma]

"Or maybe make someone from the evil faction choose good" Yeah there's a whole fucking book series on that very premise, little known of Drow Elf Drizzt Do'Urden...

[@wojak-sensei6424]

Elric of Melibone anyone? The concept of nature vs nurture and gray morality has been there since the days of Greek Mythology. Sometimes, storytelling isn't rocket science. Simple, complex, who cares? As long as it's consistent and well-crafted, one is not inferior to the other.

[@splatsma]

@@wojak-sensei6424 Elric is a wonderful example.

[@Anomaly188]

Jizzt Derp'Urden clones are boring as fuck. That well was already dry when the books were still new.

[@calemr]

It's just another piece of proof that these people know nothing about the thing they're trying to meddle with. Orcs are "Usually" or "Often" evil. Not "Always". And it's not like they refuse to use "Always": Demons and Devils are, by nature, by Definition, Always Evil. But they don't know this shit. They don't have any real connection to or understanding of the things they try to meddle in. More and more, "Gatekeeping" doesn't sound so bad...

[@wojak-sensei6424]

@@calemr That's the thing. Here in this gate we collectively agreed to keep, there's a big ol' sign that says "know what the fuck you're talking about before entry." That's all we're asking really. Just know this community and this fandom before you make your big statements and the mighty tyrannical fucking gatekeepers can let you in no problem. Is that so hard?

[@gratuitouslurking8610]

Personally the comments about how 'all elves are good' just really shows how little clue they kinda had. Elves, even yon stereotypical high elf types, are just as likely to be antagonistic or aloof assholes who will judge you than ignore you. Naturally big examples include the Blood Elves, Aldmeri Dominion, a good chunk of Warhammer Fantasy's High Elves (hell toss in Wood Elves for good measure) and of course 40k's Aeldari almost at a racial level.

[@Xentillus]

Even Tolkien's elves aren't paragons of virtue, they have conflict with the dwarves and abandoned them when their help was needed against a superior foe. The whole video stinks of "message at all cost", they don't give a shit about anything they're putting in there apart from how it can help "support" their agenda. Misrepresentation and lies are all fair game in these perverted forms of "analysis".

[@papadoug4681]

@@Xentillus Do we forget the entire story of Faenor and how his quest for revenge and blood oath amongst the fellow Noldor was depicted as an awful thing? That being filled with, hatred, pride and a lust for vengenance is not the way, and any and all mortal creatures created by Illuvatar are capable of sinking into such debased behavior? (Not jabbing at you of course. Just writing a rhetorical at the people you're talking about lol. So there is no confusion)

[@hellacoorinna9995]

Fuggin knife-ears

[@codyraugh6599]

There be only one pure good race, and them damn Hobbits keep getting in the way of my dark empire.

[@theblueengineer47792]

just dropping by to say fuck the Aldmeri Dominion

[@Fr564]

Im just reminded of the Witcher 3. The first contract is for Male Emperor Griffin. Geralt explains that it toys with its food. They are intelligent and ruthless, and to a limited degree, are not just "animalistic" they can act in malice (I know some animals play with their food IRL). When you start investigating it, Geralt wonders why its hunting people and livestock as often as it is. The devs set it up as intrinsically evil. Later on you also discover that Griffins mate for life, after coming across the corpse of a slaughtered female griffin who was killed in its sleep. So then you start thinking that maybe Griffins are just misunderstood? But no, Griffins are evil fucks, and will one shot you, and they derive pleasure from killing creatures weaker than them. Yeah maybe theres a bit of moral ambiguity from killing a creature's life partner but also fuck Griffins. World building wasn't destroyed just because Griffins are irredeemable evil fucks.

[@BEZERKSTUDIOS718]

Griffins (gryphons?) are what orcas* would be like if they had wings

[@chaosinc.382]

@@BEZERKSTUDIOS718 Accurate.

[@Data-Expungeded]

@@BEZERKSTUDIOS718 yeah definitely

[@Data-Expungeded]

@@BEZERKSTUDIOS718 except orcas are smart enough to know not to fuck with humans

[@Data-Expungeded]

@@BEZERKSTUDIOS718 but i guarantee to you if humans didn’t have guns/harpoons they would hunt us for sport

[@kog8952]

It's truly amazing how some people think, not once have i ever looked at orcs and thought of a real life comparison.

[@nathanjora7627]

"take out the indigenous stereotypes and cultural appropriations [from the barbarian class]" But... Barbarians don't have indigenous stereotypes, unless that's what you call romanticization of roman descriptions of germans and celts "indigenous" stereotypes (I mean, celts were indigenous to celtic territories I guess, but somehow I doubt that's what he meant). They are gross exaggerations of the "barbarian" stereotype from the barbarian conquests of europe, the guys that "overthrew" rome :| Damn, we can't even stereotype our own culture without being taxed of cultural appropriation now >

[@patriciusvunkempen102]

well they are and we at least double as good as tacitus said.

[@mrosskne]

Stereotypes are good and culture can neither be stolen nor owned.

[@darthsonic4135]

@@mrosskne For the second bit, he wasn't claiming you could. He was making a joke. On the first bit, please define your terms here. I may or may not agree with you depending on that.

[@argusroth3269]

I always thought of Barbarians as utilitarian in theme. They are not there for hippie dippie bullshit they are there to get to the point and to use all tools they can at their disposal in a effective and practical manner. Zombie horde is coming, I grab my axe, use my axe to kill zombie horde, Zombie horde is no longer an issue. Oh no the farmers horse has broken its leg and cant plow the field, I use my baller strength to use the plow on the field, field is now plowed. My friends are squishy and get hurt easily compared to me, I stand infront of my friends because I am not squishy and the sword tickles, friends are not being hurt now. These are just a few examples of how I would view barbarians.

[@taz3810]

The funniest part to me is that he's so concerned about fictional evil races and how we should feel empathy for them while keep attacking Germans in more occasions as all of them were evil and none could have been forced to fight ... nah, they were just all evil lol

[@enderkatze6129]

As a German, quite frankly, I feel Like we have more actual Neonazis today than we Had Nazis Back Then. Collaborating is only marginally better though

[@taz3810]

​@@enderkatze6129 I don't know, it would have been better if he talk about war crimes (as everyone did and do them), but he keep attacking only Germans as a single category as someone would do, exactly, in a game with fictional races like Orcs! It's just this hypocrisy that baffles me

[@mercaius]

Boy, it's too bad there are no famous World War 2 scenes in media where the Axis soldiers are treated brutally and unfairly by the Allied troops because they were caught wearing the wrong armbands, in spite of themselves.

[@DrakeBarrow]

@@mercaius "Look, I washed my hands for dinner!". I assume that's what you're referencing. For those who don't know, the two men trying to surrender on Omaha Beach in Saving Private Ryan (the opening scenes) are not Germans, they're Czechs and were conscripts. They are saying, in Czech, something to the effect of "Please don't kill us, we surrender, we were conscripted and forced to fight". The Americans there don't speak Czech, and it's indicated that they wouldn't have cared even if they DID understand them.

[@DonVigaDeFierro]

@@DrakeBarrow I find that detail very interesting, because it possibly flew over the heads of anyone who didn't speak Czech, so it's a bit like a bonus. The movie started very damn strong, but it went off the rails the following minutes.

[@FiveofHearts1]

Notice how nobody made the "Orcs=Black people" comparison until after that Netflix movie "Bright" came out. This is purely Netflix and Twitter normies.

[@Mr_Mistah]

That movie was so terrible. The idea of it was cool (orcs and elves in a modern world) but the story and plot was absolute rubbish

[@Delvien]

@@Mr_Mistah kinda sounds like d20 modern. (Though it's not rubbish lol)

[@FiveofHearts1]

@@Delvien D20 Modern is a pretty good system.

[@DreamTiger5]

That long bit about trying to find redemption in the few actual racists that exist today hit me in the feels. That’s the kind of tolerance and respect for humanity that is missing from a lot of discourse today.

[@LordHoth_90]

It’s like what Allies did to captured Nazi soldiers in WWII. Many spouted the Anti-Jew speeches until they were taken to the camps to see what happened, those same men broke down crying seeing what they supported and vowed to help change. That’s the biggest show of redemption in “unredeemable” people and that it could happen.

[@augustusfren133]

“are they really evil if they are forced to be?” and then he shows a wh40k ork, which are canonically not evil cus they were created to be a perfect bio war machine or whatever it is called, his point was that they shouldn’t just be evil and he picks the most innocent race in all of 40k universe, good going extra credit, you gonna need that shit otherwise you’ll be held back.

[@moistjohn]

THAT STINKIN GIT! WATZ SO EVIL BOUT GOIN OUT WITH THA BOYZ AN KILLEN SOME GROSS SPIKEY POINTY EARZ OR SOME GLOWIN SKELETONZ! DEY LOOK THINNA THAN HUMIEZ BUT DEY STRONGER! I DON'T MIND EM OGRIN THO!

[@tarektechmarine8209]

PURGE THESE FILTHY G R E E N S K I N S. BY BOLTER LET NOT THE GREAT ENEMY LIVE.

[@HotPinkst17]

40k Orc have the best tech in the universe! They can make anything they want and it just works. I guess it isn't really tech, it's magic, that they think is tech. If you could convince enough orcs of something, it would magically become so. Orcs are really the secret to making everything the way you want it. They are the most gullible not critical thinking of all audiences too so convincing them of anything will be easier than convincing anyone else. Hope no one convinces them that all orcs are super genius's now, they'd figure it all out and finally bring order to the chaos we've grown to love.

[@MiguelSanchezDelVillar]

Well, the Orks in 40K choose to be cruel with their enemies, so they are a bit evil but they just see It a funny

[@kuutamox]

@@MiguelSanchezDelVillar "puny uuumans probagamba"

[@Calbeck]

"I speak up, telling the black dragon that I consider myself an ally against the problematic oppressions society creates systemically against those of ebonic draconic -" "The dragon stops laughing long enough to immolate you in a stream of pure acid. Roll up a new character."

[@V2ULTRAKill]

"I roll to seduce the dragon.....nat 20..."

[@V2ULTRAKill]

@Druid Of Scosglen hey! Im sorcerer! We use charisma too you know

[@dragonheart1236]

@@V2ULTRAKill simple solution "Alright, you seduce the Black Dragon. It swoops you up, and spends the next week torturing you for fun, as is the nature of sadists such as Black Dragons. After days of agonizing pain, your broken body and mind are finally put out of its misery"

[@V2ULTRAKill]

@@dragonheart1236 touche

[@dragonheart1236]

@@V2ULTRAKill if you got annoying horny bards, just think to yourself. What does this monster do for fun and pleasure? Show the bard why seducing thing willy nilly may not be a good idea

[@josephthomason447]

Imagine holding the position that generic cultist #3 is "always more interesting" than the most compelling sci-fi horror monster ever made.

[@drakispain2213]

"What is better? to be born good or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?" Paarthurnax, skyrim.

[@babylonisfallen4411]

skyrims for queers

[@varisugocsay1152]

@@babylonisfallen4411 Paarthurnax is a interesting character even if he is in a mediocre game.

[@babylonisfallen4411]

yes but he smells bad and it makes me uncomfortable.

[@drakispain2213]

@@babylonisfallen4411 ok buddy

[@babylonisfallen4411]

I'm not your buddy, pal.

[@ShadowryuuPmP]

And here he is again, best Doggo returns to us. I shall give all the belly-rubs to your plushy once it gets here.

[@anotherinternetperson8495]

Best doggo is korone but rags is easily second

[@Reshyon]

@@anotherinternetperson8495 I would challenge this claim, but don’t have the info in korone to disproved.

[@arkanrais]

the people wh are like "orcs are just black people" are the same ones who would've told women to go backpacking across afghanistan. who remembers that one woman who tried to show it's fine to do that, and got kidnapped and beheaded?

[@mrillis9259]

The quickest way to ruin a good walk.

[@matthewmatthew981]

So basically whenever they're talking about "making an impact on the world" through moral dilemmas and such, they're talking about the real world, not the game world. It's a blatant equivocation. They are literally saying that game developers have an obligation to make every interaction of players with their games politically motivated. If you're not helping to indoctrinate the players towards a particular worldview, EC says, you're not doing your job as a game designer right.

[@HotPinkst17]

I think the idea is that we create culture with everything we do, so the personal is political. Racism is an ongoing and structural problem. I think it would be the death of art and free expression to obligate anyone to create anything but if we can make a culture racist unconsciously, then we can also make a culture fit our ideals consciously. Though clearly doing things purposefully would take more work, am certain it is worth the thoughtfulness.

[@D_Abellus]

@@HotPinkst17 I think the issue here is the reaction to this video from EC was clearly one of disgust at the thought of applying fictional logic to a other living human beings. As far as I can see, no one really ever see's Africans or African descended groups as being Orcs. I say that the world for the most part has been making a conscious effort to be rid of racist cultural ideas in real life. Some parts more than others, but EC is talking about a problem that literally doesn't exist for the vast majority of people. Orcs in media are tribal, warlike and brutal, but those traits could be painted on the vast majority of human cultures in history. Even Tolkien meant Orcs to be symbolic of fascism and oppression. I've read a few of your comments and I can see where you are coming from, but in the end, reality often influences art far more than art influencing reality. The best way to erase a racist culture is through education and persuasive augmenting than to make less racist art. That's the reason why the art in general has become less racist, not because the artists suddenly stopped being unconscious with what they were making. To make it clear, I am not stating that racist art should exist, but moreso am disagreeing with the claim that the artist suddenly waking up and not making it will somehow not make culture racist anymore. I can assure you that's not how slavery was slowly abolished through the long 1800s and how the civil right's movements were won. The problem people have here is that the vast majority of series and topics EC bring in have nothing to do with race, and the only popular "Orcs" that have some ties to African descendants as far as I know are the World of Warcraft ones, which I am assuming is where the "Orcs are black people" argument extended from. To end I am just going to say, there is nothing wrong with promoting something you believe in with your art, but not only is there a time and place for bringing politically charged statements/depictions in art, but there is also an inherent separation from art and reality that needs to be established. With public works of art, there are tens of thousands of theoretical connections a large group on the internet could find between all of human history and a work of art, however most if not all are almost always coincidental. Not every artist can cross reference such coincidences to avoid them as they will never be aware of the vast majority of them while writing and such statements like the titular "Orcs are black people" argument hinge on a set of coincidences that an artist is rarely knowledgeable on. Society does need change, but the debate EC commented on is rooted in fantasy and bears little resemblance in reality and such people feel the need to correct them as they had tried to correct others on their fantastical interpretation.

[@HotPinkst17]

@@D_Abellus I appreciate your perspective but you predictably seem to want to dismiss or minimize any issue. Ever see the movie Bright (2017)? It dodges systemic racism of fellow humans to portray it towards Orcs, who exhibit many tropes in African American culture. While it may be that art imitates life, more than the other way around, this isn't established fact or verified truth. Let's say it works how you say though, then art becomes a good indicator of what is within the artist, and thereby useful for showing their perhaps unconscious bias. Though I'd never assert the abolitionist came from abolitionist art, people are influenced purposefully or not by their culture and it's art. No one will be hurt by being more conscious and having some self reflection, and it may do some good.

[@D_Abellus]

@@HotPinkst17 II am not dismissing the issue that there can be racist depictions of people through the lens of Orcs, but stating that the vast majority of them aren't that way nor framed as such. Also to add on to what I mean, I could grab a myriad of scientific research done that has been going on for years that prove that the vast majority of people don't end up fundamentally changed by art they consumed. If you want me to provide a source for these studies, I will, but then conversely I would ask you provide a scientific study that shows or suggests that orc culture is similar to African American culture, because I honestly can't see what's similar, and if what you mean is in terms of oppression and suppression of the individual, fantasy elves are usually the subject of that over Orcs, and that's usually framed as a bad thing that needs to change. I'm no saying that there can't be, but rather that the vast majority is not. People see this like the "video games cause school shooters" arguments because people like EC fundamentally take away a person's own culpability in their perception of Orcs as opposed to what's on screen more of the time. Contemporary orcs in media are often tribalistic, domineering, militaristic. and oppressive, however, as I a said before those traits aren't inherent to depictions of Africa or the people there. Those traits can be applied to so many cultures in history, and Tolkien, whom they are descended from, took way more inspiration from the Vikings, Huns, and Germans than anything else. The history of Orcs in media save for WoW, which has those undertones, are mostly based off the Tolkien versions of Orcish culture. I'll be honest in saying I don't watch movies much and by extension wouldn't have seen that said movie, but I am going to argue a few specific examples often prove exceptions to the rule and are not the rule itself. There 100% can be, but for the most part, EC and many who talk about this subject don't point out the ones that are, they claim they all are. which is reductive because if all Orcs are a racist caricature why suddenly now are people realizing this? It logically doesn't make sense, and even DnD wise, Gary Gygax, the person who made the original DnD, was immensely progressive for the late 70s to early 2000s. He preached players respect each other regardless of skin-tone or gender. I've read the Adnd manual, so their biggest target there has its original creator and director taking an active stand against racism. I think we both fundamentally agree that these depictions when actually done, are bad and should be eradicated, but I disagree that its as common as you seem to think. I argue that such depictions are rare and more often used by people who wish to comment on said issues rather than to be racist.

[@HotPinkst17]

@@D_Abellus Wasn't trying to make you defensive. Just encouraging thoughtfulness.

[@minespatch]

"Her legs form a swaztika" Already killed me before it began. XD

[@FringedHorizon]

Not gonna lie, I had totally thought that he had forgotten his password at this point. Also side note, that plush is THE GODDAMN CUTEST THING I HAVE EVER SEEN.

[@GardeniaCreations]

My problem with this argument is that, since we're mostly talking about d&d, by buying the books, you're allowed to change it all according to your tastes. If you really hate the vanilla Forgotten Realms setting, make your own. It's lazy to demand that everything be changed, when you have the license to do it yourself.

[@cameronphenix2096]

One problem this brings is that sometimes a purely "evil" faction is NECESSARY for worldbuilding. The best example of this is Warhammer 40k. The "good" faction in 40k is the Imperium of Man, and they are by no means actually good in any regard. Guard Captains will execute their own men to boost morale millions of people are unwillingly sacrificed to keep a rotting corpse warm, and peaceful species are regularly genocided simply for being aliens. If you don't have objectively worse factions to contrast them to, like the orks and tyranids (both of which are instinct driven, world devouring, killing machines) then you have no side to root for.

[@LordHoth_90]

“Glory to the God-Emperor of Man!”

[@cameronphenix2096]

@@zogwort1522 I can see how if you only play the tabletop, you could come to that conclusion, but most if not all literature, games, and rpgs place the imperium as the protagonists

[@thuglifebear5256]

_In_ _context_ the Imperium of Man are the good guys. They're literally fighting demons and monsters on a regular basis.

[@SomeGuyHowGoesIt]

@@zogwort1522 Did somebody have a bad day?

[@SomeGuyHowGoesIt]

@@zogwort1522 Looks like you did.

[@JohnnyDoorknob]

Rags has finally returned from EFAP. Now he can make the elders pay for their crimes

[@onecrispyfrie1932]

He has escaped from mauler's basement

[@JohnnyDoorknob]

@@onecrispyfrie1932 We need to alert the Long man

[@onecrispyfrie1932]

@@JohnnyDoorknob lmao

[@AimlessSavant]

@@JohnnyDoorknob throw him back in the EFAP booth :V

[@Raffinari]

NO I ONLY HAVE SO MANY GRANDMAS

[@SigmaTheWhiteFlame]

Imagine looking at a mindflayer and saying “How dare you make generalizations about races, also how dare you portray asians this way”

[@supermaximusfagetti9836]

Delicious brain soup

[@nqk_0662]

@@supermaximusfagetti9836 no , GAS

[@juniorjunior5884]

Funny enough, my friend started saying I'd make a great mindflayer.

[@f145hr3831jr]

This reminds me of a "RPG horror story" where a DM made a big deal out of the party's paladin killing orcs on sight (this was the first time in their campaign orcs were brought up, they were armed, rushed to the party with an unknown motive and only spoke orc), calling the player an alt-right lunatic without clarifying anything and kicking him out of the group. Yeah sorry, non-evil orcs are quite new, I'm totally OK if you want to make them nuanced, but don't expect everyone to instictively know every alteration you made to the setting without telling them.

[@nickmanzo8459]

They ran at them with weapons, and didn’t share a language? How did he not realize they only wanted to bring them ice cream?

[@swordguy6368]

Please tell me the group just disbanded then and there, I mean why anyone would want to play with a DM like that.

[@gamerito100]

Oh, God, he must be one of those that kicks you for murdering a villager and shit like that xD

[@codyraugh6599]

@@gamerito100 guy does sound like a GM i had. Labeled my character by will of god i was chaotic evil, because the character had a clearly written out code that was based on the one core of humans= terrible race, non-humanoid= awesome, but since the character wouldn't follow human laws that benefit specifically humans and not the other races in their general area, that character was chaotic evil and deserved to be one shot.

[@ralcogaming7674]

@@gamerito100 every dm I had worked around us killing or attacking people we shouldn't. One just made the npc so much higher level we couldn't kill him but had him use nonlethal attacks, One just shook his head at us as we all took turns beating up a guy who was there to help good thing he had a journal.

[@chloemarlowe3817]

An aspect that that EC ignored and Rags missed with "evil races" specifically in a video game, because books, tabletop games and movies (but it can be messed up in a movie if done wrong) can get away with this. What I am talking about specifically is reaction time and instincts. One of the most frustrating things a player can experience in a video game is the confusion of not immediately being able to tell from a distance if an NPC will try to kill you before you ever interact with them. One of my favorite games: Devil May Cry 5 has most enemies have purple, and gray with some rare red as their colors. Devil May Cry 5 is an action game where quick reaction time is important so having the player associate enemies with a single color will make keeping track of enemies in your peripherals easier. The Shadows of Mordor/War games have Orcs/Uruk's be the majority of the enemies and there is almost no ambiguity on who your enemies are. Hell, this is why soldiers wear uniforms in battle: so they are able to pick out their allies from enemies. It doesn't sound like the coloring and specific shapes of enemies would matter because the average video game player is usually not going to consciously associate a color with in-game danger. It's almost always the little things in game design that often go unnoticed that are important. So I find it odd that a channel that specifically talks about in-depth game design isn't even considering the possibility that the reason for "evil races" might have something to do with the sub-conscious convenience of the player. TL;DR we're talking about video games so the less time my brain spends processing to identify enemies is more time my brain can spend actually engaging in the fights themselves.

[@talongreenlee7704]

Honestly, it’s a video game. I’m here to have fun killing monsters. Having an entire race of evil humanoid creatures isn’t meant to reflect on real world groups of people, it’s meant to give me a steady stream of monsters to kill. It’s not that complicated.

[@KopperNeoman]

Games that allow you to exploit this very fog of war are also great. An effective counter-Alliance strategy in Sea of Thieves is to board a ship and then fire upon other ships flying the same colours. You can't tell the difference between an allied player and a non-allied one at a distance by design (unlike your own crewmates whom you can track up to a kilometer out), and this subterfuge can trick the alliance into believing that traitors are in their midst.

[@gratuitouslurking8610]

I still remember the TF2 making of videos and such where they discuss the creation of the characters, and how a lot of that was to make recognizable silhouettes so no matter the cosmetic addons or weapon swaps you could tell a Medic, Sniper and Spy apart from each other. These sort of cues are a lifeblood of gaming, whether that be to make a prominent color of an enemy army an 'aggressive' shade to stand out over backdrop or by making classes have a visual difference so you can pick who's who apart in the chaos.

[@xXJ4FARGAMERXx]

I want to respond with "but what about when you _want_ there to be ambiguity?" But honestly I don't like those games, they're so stressful!

[@TwentyPercentDash]

People are saying Rags is back, but I watch him every week on EFAP. Hi Rags!

[@PeachDragon_]

Same but that only pissed me off more, he's on the podcast every episode (which is great) but he makes a video every time the pope fucking dies, for a while i was just annoyed.

[@TheJols]

love him on EFAP but i really love his own vids too

[@garrett3117]

Yea but Rags is just the best.

[@Alicorn_]

I discovered EFAP, watched through ~75% of them, watched through most of Mauler's channel, then most of Ra'gs' channel, all in the time between now and his last upload.

[@samzilla567]

@@PeachDragon_ Hey at least you know when the Pope dies, thanks to Rags' upload schedule.

[@darknessvamp]

Rags was destined to release a video at the set time... or he would’ve been melted!

[@Goodheartless]

You had to make this comment else you’d have been melted

[@davidrogers9206]

Don't yoi mean sent to the end of time to then be melted by the barney in the basement

[@gueton5200]

Kang approved

[@SirGrimLockSmithVIII]

Funnily enough I appreciate how the Shadow of Mordor and War games fleshed out and expanded upon Orc culture without compromising on the inherent qualities that Tolkien first laid out. It really got you to appreciate Orcs for more than what they were initially depicted as in previous media while still sticking to what defined them in the first place.

[@Drubnubjagr]

Especially Ranger, a very deep character study

[@eriksvoboda6973]

Have been playing Shadow of War recently and it is the best point of otherwise kinda mediocre game. Instead of trying to make the conflict morally gray, they gave us dozens of ways in which Uruks can be evil, many of them culturally fitting or just plain hilarious. Running into "the Agonizer" had my sides in orbit.

[@Zathren]

God, Shadow of War was so difficult to get through. That plot is awful with all the retconning and "powerful female" characters that are far more powerful then Talion. Glad I finally finished and uninstalled that crap.

[@soulssurvivor3455]

@@Zathren I can name 6 female character in the entire game. 1 is the spider, as far as I remember she stole the ring and because of that Talion and Celebrimbor are weakened. 1 is the elf, she isn't stated to be stronger, simply more willing to kill orcs unlike Talion who wants to keep useful orcs to build an army. A third one is the woman you meet at the start who is definitely shown to not be stronger than Talion. Another is the literal embodiment of nature so of course she's more powerful than Talion. The last 2 are DLC antagonist Ring Wraiths, and ring wraiths are shown to already be quite powerful alone in game so two will of course beat Talion. You sound full of shit my friend.

[@BEZERKSTUDIOS718]

@@soulssurvivor3455 I can also think of the witch and your second love interest, aside from galadriel, arwen, eowyn, the women from the silmarillion whose names I can't remember, and the most powerful woman of all, Rosie

[@505Zippy]

"It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would rather have stayed there in peace."

[@MistbornTaylor]

Listen guys, Rags wanted to upload more videos but every time he did, Kang had him melted.

[@yetanotherspuart3993]

Because the previous edits of this vid were frankly, not good rat.

[@finalfantasy50]

kang was controlling rags and made him not make videos so it is kangs fault really

[@BigBroTejano]

I just find it funny that apparently Hodes is a “minority”... but his avatar in the EC video is a white dude lol

[@crooked9210]

He looks like a white dude in real life even. I don't understand what minority group he's supposed to be from

[@AllenTax]

@@crooked9210 A white man liveing in the heart of central Africa. Anyone who doesn't live,conform to the majority can be.

[@crooked9210]

@@AllenTax I'm aware but he's not that though

[@Foxxie0kun]

Hey, there was that lady politician (Nancy Pelosi?) who tried to argue that she was Native American despite being so many generations removed from her sole Native American ancestor that legally she cannot claim to have Native heritage (You need to be at least 1/16th Native to claim Native heritage and she was like 1/160th or something like that), and even the tribe she supposedly had ancestral ties to said they didn't want her and won't support her. Maybe this guy's the same way, a distant ancestor from 200 years ago was a different race but all his direct line since then married into white families, meaning he's legally and genetically white as can be but still hates that he's not getting hand-outs because of his distant ancestor.

[@mhammer3186]

@@Foxxie0kun that was Elizabeth Warren. She had less Native American in her than the average American.

[@ZinTyPhoon]

They need "evil" choices to be simple so that they can justify attacking the people they disagree with in the real world.

[@pabomba323]

“A gaggle of zombies” is a phrase I’m going to say often form now on

[@corbintheintern6229]

Me when they brought up 40k: "Yeah sure bud, go ahead and try to reason with the Tyranids."

[@fitzwaren]

Just throw snickers at them until they’re satiated.

[@corbintheintern6229]

That's a lot of snickers

[@therac197]

@@corbintheintern6229 Nah just 1. They are a hive mind