Ram Refuses to CRANK...Part 1 (Hemi V8)

We've seen this 2014 Ram 1500 Hemi on the channel before...
This time the Ram is a completely beached whale.
Nothing happens when you turn the ignition key...the cluster does show some signs of life and we are able to talk to a few modules.
Can we accurately diagnose the no-crank problem and give the customer an accurate estimate for repairs?
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Enjoy!
Ivan

[@Trigger_32]

I find it really hard to care about someone else’s things, that theyve asked me to fix, when they clearly dont care about it themselves.

[@davidturner4639]

Wow, that truck is rough looking for only 123000 miles. Makes one wonder about the lack of maintenance and general abuse it has endured. Good video again Ivan.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

It DESPERATELY needed an oil change....last time the oil was changed by me when I replaced the busted timing components over a year ago haha

[@Dytopjewa7631]

Possibly a farm,or work,truck..

[@559caliii]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics What can cause the catalytic converters not to be ready? I replaced one catalytic converter wich was clogged but they don’t be ready. Got a p0446 u think that can be make them not be ready?

[@skysurferuk]

This is why I sincerely hope that flying cars never happen! 🤣

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

@@559caliii yeah fix the p0446

[@jorgefernandez-mv8hu]

Who only has one fob for their truck in that condition? Great diagnosis.

[@emtscythe3782]

Just FYI you can turn the WIN Module/Ignition switch with the wrong key. Quick and dirty way to see if it’s the WIN or the key, if you happen to have another RAM key , insert and turn. IF the WIN is reading the Cluster will display “ Wrong Key “.

[@tedsmith6137]

Watching these mysteries being unravelled makes me so pleased that my 1970 based Eureka (Sterling in the US) has no electronics at all.

[@bones007able]

That fob looks like hell .... I'm amazed that it even works in the truck

[@kevincampbell8298]

Looks like it was run over by a truck. LOL

[@JOHNSUE28]

@@kevincampbell8298 Hell, I cant believe how dirty that truck interior is. Some people. The Filth is unbelievable.

[@kevincampbell8298]

@@JOHNSUE28 I freak out over a little dirt in my car. lol, it explains my detailing obsession. I won’t even drive my wife's car. Because I have to clean it first.

[@ferrumignis]

@@kevincampbell8298 Women seem to be the absolute worst at keeping the inside of cars clean.

[@kevincampbell8298]

@@ferrumignis I inly know a few who are quite ocd about keeping them clean!!

[@dustcommander100]

This is a good example of your knowledge and ability. Knowledge of how the systems work, and ability to ignore the abuse, neglect, and current state of the vehicle. It it really hard to focus on a repair when so much clutter and damage is staring you in the face (and possibly offensive odors in the nose). It can be quite difficult to determine what to ignore and what cannot be ignored.

[@mikehonda7934]

10:02 That is a Blade AL unit which is a bypass module for the remote starter brain which is a Compustar CM7200. A really good and pricy unit and not junk in any way shape or form, but a bad install and T-shoot will make a situation worse. If you don't know what you're doing. (edit: Also Ivan, if you see a remote starter, don't just willy nilly unplug things on them. Some units require an interruption of the factory wiring which in some cases is a controlled passthrough inside the remote starter module. Disconnecting such improperly, can stop the car from reading key fobs, data, even in some cases security. If you don't know about it, don't touch it. Example, Subaru 3 wires are interrupted in some cars and some require 2 bypass modules. It could make drag worse for you in the future. Just some information to keep in mind.)

[@JamesAgans]

I don't know anything about remote starters, but I know shit wiring when I see it. If you don't know how to properly wrap, flux, solder and shrink wrap wires, you got no business fooling with electronics. The person that butchered this truck should be ashamed. They left old food remnants and crap in the truck and dropped it off to be repaired? Sorry, I wouldn't even look at this Cootie Cart.

[@JoseSilveira-newhandleforYT]

I think you made the right call, Ivan! Considering the condition of that key and the way the fault appeared (it worked when he parked and couldn't restart it again), it's quite possible that the key electronics went down (moisture ingress, etc.). Let's see what happens in Part 2 :-)

[@Sandmansa]

I am familiar with these ignition switches. Notice the notch in the center of the switch? That ignition switch is push button. But has the option to remove the button so you can rotate the switch like a normal key when the FOB battery dies. That switch can rotate with a wrong or bad key. Good call Ivan. I too believe It's time for a new key FOB. Maybe get 2 so he has a spare? Obviously, he's rough with his keys.

[@sspnugen]

Take it to Wilberts

[@ChrisWilliams-pu8pj]

Great one again! Used the TS101 on a trailer re-wire the last couple of days. What a fantastic solder iron! Thank you!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Nice! Yeah that iron is a little beast :)

[@safetbekiroski1873]

16:57 when you turn the key to crank position the communication line lost her data message packets. This reminds me of the video from Automotive test solutions of Bernie Thompson when he also turn the ignition to crank position and gets the same scope capture. Definitetly needs new key because the RHF module doesnt recognise these key.

[@artursmihelsons415]

I will definitely, open up that busted key to check soldering joints around coil in glass tube.. 😉 They love to break off or crack.. 😂

[@thephantom1492]

One thing you can try is to take your scope probe, connect the ground to the probe tip, and put it around the key/ignition like you did with that 5$ gizmo thing. This make a crude antenna, and you should be able to see a mV signal for the RF data ! You can measure the frequency and possibly the data.

[@kevin9c1]

Would it work better if the scope was grounded to the tip through a resistor?

[@thephantom1492]

@@kevin9c1 no. You use the wire as a loop antenna. The resistor would lowrr the signal

[@Jonathan11225]

im doing locksmith on the side and the door chime should sound if the door is open and ''Key in ignition'' should light up in the cluster when a ''good'' key is inserted, not only a good already programmed Key but even an unprogrammed one but you have to have the right Chip 2009-2012 are different than the 2013 and up , the igintion turn even with an unprogrammed key

[@cyrexccc]

Can’t wait for part 2. I got the Autel like you suggested:)) maybe that what you use for key fob. Hopefully:)

[@blueskiesmobileauto4253]

My first thought as “looking familiar “ is black on black Dodge Rams in the rear view mirror tailgating me. I’m sure you’ll fix it Ivan and it will be back to business as usual!

[@_RiseAgainst]

I thought it was one if the two rams I was behind on the interstate tonight with no tail lights. To be fair one truck had one working.

[@kylebryan4759]

Had a jeep come in today from another shop with this exact issue. The other shop blasted the parts cannon at it...new tipm... hopefully ill get to play with it tomorrow

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Good luck!

[@_RiseAgainst]

The complexity of a push button start, with the inconvenience of having to find and insert a key. The worst of both worlds!

[@kevin9c1]

This looks like late 90s/early 2000s Mercedes technology...

[@gerrymoeller]

It's normal to be able to turn on the switch by hand. Some of those can be converted to push button by turning it on and adding a button plug to that hub if it has a proximity key. I also have one of those antenna testers, they save a lot of time on testing the antenna's. Sounds like you have a bad chip on the key. Using a wrong key will not turn the hub on either but if you use a blank one it will power up. I went thru this on a Caravan once. I keep a few spare blanks on me just for that reason now. Lol

[@advancedleveldiagnostics]

Great video! It looks like a bad key, On these cars you can always turn the ignition with the wrong key. If it's not programmed it will usually say bad key. You really need a tool like the key tool max that can read the key and also the signal coming out of the ignition.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

After dealing with this truck I actually bought the DiagnosticBox transponder and antenna tester on AESWave ;)

[@trevorvanbremen4718]

I'm kinda concerned that the PCM never shows up in a system scan... Is this 'normal'??? Does the ignition actually have to be "ON" for the PCM to receive power (e.g. via the ASD relay). (I thought the PCM has a 'hot-at-all-times' power input and a separate 'ignition on' switched input so it SHOULD be able to be part of the scan tree even if the ignition is off)

[@petepeabody8905]

I pray you're right about the hey/keyfob Ivan, but we all know it will be much deeper

[@bullbutter9699]

I lOVE lOVE lOVE CLASSIC TRUCKS EVEN MORE NOW.

[@tomjohnson6036]

7:53 the “Ignition Locked” blinked when you were messing with something.

[@titaniumman_22]

Thanks Ivan, was a nice video to watch after dinner tonight! 🇺🇸

[@EATSLEEPFARM]

Im sure this truck is fixed and shipped but programming that should be a breeze with your scanner. Ive done a few of those fobs on dodge trucks with my X431 pro. Great stuff Ivan👍

[@ianjeffery3762]

It amazes me how people are not ashamed of the mess they leave in their car when they take it to a garage....

[@CrimeVid]

Why would that bother you ? So long as you have left nothing in the way ? The most car-proud guy I know has the most breakdowns !

[@TNT-projects]

It took me ages to work out what a “Prindle” was 😂… we don’t have many automatics in the UK … Learning lots watching your diagnostics ( mostly that I want to keep my simpler cars)

[@slocavky]

I seen a video from ol scotty Kilmer with one of these trucks. His was as simple as replacing the starter. Really weird trucks.

[@Z-Ack]

Scotty is not the person to learn anything from except on how to troll like an old man for views..

[@n9wox]

Scotty doesn't like to work on complicated electronics. One of his customers cars had a parasitic draw, and he installed a battery cutoff switch.

[@randallgoldapp9510]

You can buy replacement cases for key fob if the board inside turns out to be ok. No reprogramming necessary. I did this with my 2007 Impala.

[@scotts4125]

It's called a shell. I'm an automotive locksmith. Side note we don't get involved in kaka like this. We only do lost keys.

[@cyrexccc]

Googled the letters you first said of the after market starter. Yuck. Butcher job someone did. I love your process. As usual:)

[@joehatt6868]

Check the radio frequency module behind the rear seat under the rear window. Wires on it get corroded. I have fixed 2 so far with same issue.

[@roxanneabbott8424]

Akk!! I have to wait for part 2?? You're killing me Ivan!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

😜

[@AK-Ram-tech]

There is a little lock mechanism in the key slot. The ignition switch on those is the WIN module so you should see it on scan data. When mine on my jeep went bad, it locked and wouldnt release the key. Those modules have been known problems for years even on the mercedes. On the one you are working on, the win module is for sure bad.

[@SDPP992]

That’s a compustar remote start system, I had one of them blade AL systems, and you can turn the ignition with your fingers and it will start with your key in your pocket, my 09 ram does it

[@GarnConstructionInc]

Butt connectors would look factory compared to that tape job! The fob is transmitting to the pass lock but just the way it looks I would want to try a known good also.

[@htownblue11]

It amazes me how Ivan is able to take a smashed bag full of broken clue pieces and end up solving most every mystery on these vehicles.

[@produKtNZ]

In two words "Proper Tools" 8) and that includes the meaty bit in the middle :D

[@MattyEngland]

Now you mention it, I've never seen Ivan and Thelma in the same room at the same time 🤔🤔🤔

[@curtisgore1611]

Well what happened?

[@karlkoenigstein4138]

Aftermarket Remote Start - keeping diagnosticians happily housed and fed for decades!

[@johngault3973]

My 09 Ram failed to crank at an art fair we went to, swapped the 90 amp relay and it fired up and made it home allowing me to get another relay

[@MiFobz]

Hi Ivan, As soon as you place the fobik into the dash it should at a minimum show the display on the dash and mileage. This is without even turning it. From the moment you put the key in you should hear something. Easy way to tell the fobik is bad quickly. No motors in WIN module its a set of contacts that engage when turned. An unprogrammed or bad key will show on the dash when inserted. You can also have a key with buttons that will work but not start the vehicle, and you can also get keys that will start the vehicle but buttons won't work. Get a new one asap aftermarkets work fine.

[@flatdaddio]

Very cool, can't wait for part 2!

[@goodtimejohnny8972]

You need a pin to program. If your scan tool can't retrieve the pin you have to call the stealership parts dept for it. Small fee and may be required to prove ownership and/or have locksmith license depending on the state you are in.

[@j.t.johnston3048]

I've tried to program a FOBIK for a Ram 2500. You have to have a code from the dealer to put in the scan tool when you go into programming.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Depends on the scanner ;)

[@Z-Ack]

Yea i got tired of the whole having to have the key with you and the right key to start the car so i took the little chip out and wired it to where the led light was that illuminated the ignition switch and wired in a push button and interlocked it with the windshield cleaner spray button.. so you dont have to use a key and just have to know you gotta hold the washer button while you press the start button otherwise it wont start.. works perty good.. i got a button pad on the doors so just use the code to unlock and programmed the auto lock and. Unlock not to work with key proximity..

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

That's a slick hack haha!

[@scotts4125]

We unlock cars every day where people use the keypads and leave the keys in the car. When your battery goes dead you guys help pay for my sons college. I love you smart guys. :)

[@chrissmith7655]

Hi ivan, the owner is going to have to pay for the abuse he has given this Ram. How do people expect vehicles to keep running with lack of care? Many thanks from UK.

[@Randy245850]

Dam Ivan, they couldn't have cleaned the truck out before you looked at it?

[@porky7753]

The butcher shop would be installing a new battery and starter right now. lol

[@robm3063]

As the other folks have commented, that "key" is nuts. Why would anyone send this truck to the middle of nowhere Pennsylvania (no offence Ivan) with that key.

[@LesReeves]

I had the same/similar problem with my 02 Nissan it was the chip in the key I had my Ivan source a second hand key & barrel. He then put the used chip in my key head & reprogramed it vehicle is now fixed (that was so I still only need one key to open the doors & start it.)Cheers Ivan.My money is on the key fob considering the state of it.(I also hate those type of keys my other vehicle has the key with the buttons on it & a battery in it the problem with that type the head is glued together you have to break it to change the battery luckily they sell the blank heads on E-Bay so I bought 3 just in case.

[@markelliott7917]

Aftermarket garbage? Best part of the whole truck!

[@scottgrygiel1377]

Had a similar issue with my 2016 RAM. It's an intermittent problem, never figured out the problem.

[@abdouallahuniverse5689]

I can't believe some drivers didn't think or plan ahead, one car key is a bad idea, if you lost it, it will take more than 600 dollar just to make another one of course including towing. But in this situation, key fob gone bad, and if it wasn't for honest mechanic like Ivan, it would cost him a.lot of money may be over a 1000, If he had two keys problem will be solved, just try the other key, if it start, no expense except to make another key.

[@eddiereichel9354]

Had a 2010 journey that customer complaint was locks and windows rolling down. Button under rubber on fobik was broken off and Intermittent holding unlock button by itself

[@johnr8476]

Wonder if the little battery in the fob is good?

[@jakeandrus690]

Time to channel your inner "Northridgefix" and fix that broken fob 😅

[@philh9238]

I had a 14 grand caravan with a bad key the dash didn’t turn on. The pids you looked at stayed in off while turning the key tested the key with an autel key tool and it was bad

[@baxrok2.]

Thanks Ivan!

[@alexlongpre4527]

Great video as usual Ivan. Where did you get that little antenna tester?

[@Brooklynraised68]

Precisely

[@dougmacqueen1679]

Given the hassle and expense of getting keys programed, it is wise choice to have a second key regardless of the current problem. Advise from a locksmith.😢

[@Pillers4Momoms]

Hey ivan. I noticed around the 9 minute mark if you watch the odometer data it changed as you scrolled down the list. Very odd if I may say so myself. Maybe whatever module communicates that is no good. (Could just be a bug with scantool) I’m not familiar with them.

[@michaelslee4336]

I spotted that too, it jumps up to a million miles. Damn, there goes the resale out of the window.

[@jmistret419]

Like eric o would say. CHOP IT OFF!!

[@Saykes1994]

22:11 Hi Ivan, do you have green coil for immobilizer?

[@Foxfatherracing]

Yes, because a actual key was was to hard to design around.

[@kevincampbell8298]

People in general don’t understand the key is not just a key anymore. I was wondering when you were going to break out that coil/LED.

[@mikeluscher159]

Looks like an add one 3x remote start setup I wonder if you would've hit lock three times on the remote, would it have started 🤔

[@Z-Ack]

Lol. A good question and a problem solving mindset.. the force is strong with this one.. lol

[@brentbell2724]

At 8:59 minutes it says RKE signal strength 0.... some keys will lose programming if the battery is too low...is it a dead key fob battery??? I'll see in part 2!!!!

[@Paolo0902]

Why not the check the key with RFID reader?

[@brandonsnider7907]

I don't understand what the key being borked has to do with the ECM/TCM being offline?

[@jeffryblackmon4846]

Oh for the days of real keys without all the RF sensing circuits!

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

yup the good old-fashioned lock cylinders never wore out! Well unless it was a Chrysler, GM or Ford xD

[@jamiepatterson1214]

How about the good old days of spark, fuel, and air. No modules that caused unlimited number of problems. Or a module that has nothing to do with the engine running.

[@scotts4125]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics Honda actually makes the worst key cylinders. They have know about this for 20 years and they still put the same crappy wafers in. A Google search of Honda key stopped working will produce a lot of content. We run close to 150 Auto locksmith calls per week today was slow we only had 20. Everyday we get at least one Honda where the mechanical key stops working in the door or ign. Before transponders I carried almost every Ign. cylinder with me. Back in the day it was GM's by far when the cylinders were in the column. Fords had the key detector break off in the ign preventing the key from being inserted. Did a lot of Nissans too. Believe it or not Chrysler gave us the least amount of trouble. They don't need locksmith work when they don't run. :) Jeeps back then used GM locks so did a ton of those too.

[@KingsWeldingandAutomotive]

Blade AL device is some sort of immobilizer

[@hcox1111]

Is the battery in the key dead? never mind 9 minutes in you got the doors to lock

[@n9wox]

If the FOB uses passive RFID, the FOB battery isn't required for the car to identify the key.

[@scotts4125]

@@n9wox Yup. The battery is only for the remote portion with the push buttons. You have no idea how many times a day I have to explain this to customers who can't start their cars. They always blame the the Fob. I ask them while on the phone to beep the horn. 9 times out of 10 no horn beep. lady you have a dead car battery. ;)

[@jtjones4727]

For what it's worth, that box in there, the Blade-al box is an immobilizer bypass and doorlock intergrator bypass module. Maybe installed for an aftermarket remote start. But with that installed I think any key will start it, or maybe it's been completely bypassed, perhaps thats why the switch can be turned by finger.

[@wolleysegap9740]

The old "Hack and Tap" wiring job. Unbelievable.

[@tomtke7351]

Is there an add charge in standard rate books for any system with AFTERMARKET elements? Just sayin' as there's nothing wrong with aftermarket but it adds 2x complexity. And there's NO OEM documentation/wirelists

[@joesmo4749]

Just did heads, camshaft and lifters on on of these.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Fun times LOL!

[@joesmo4749]

@@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics no doubt!

[@2nickles647]

I got one to work on. Customer is waiting.

[@joesmo4749]

@@2nickles647 they are bad about the roller going bad on the lfters and eating lobe off of camshaft! DNJ lifters about $600.00 and factory Dodge mds lifters are a $1000.00. We delete the mds as well thats my preference makes it a good strong running v8 all the time.

[@Guillotines_For_Globalists]

Ivan, do you know of any way to access driving characteristics, ala "black box" information prior to a catastrophic failure? Is this possible with automobiles manufactured after 2010?

[@killahcdub2162]

alpha obd2 ,android app + obd link mx blue tooth dongle. 4-digit security pin from dealer they need proof of ownership, and they must give it. most mid-level scanners will work, The app and dongle cost around $ 120. And you can do dealer level programming on any Fiat, Chrysler dodge Ram . stalantist vehicle. RFH hub replace write Vin to new pcm. instrument cluster, dpf regeneration, change customer programmable features. Bidirectional control. almost everything that a $2000.00 scanner can't do.

[@chuck10088]

I've owned a 2010 and now 2016 Dodge Caravan, both had/have a CR2032 battery in it. Does that have one also?

[@2nickles647]

Ivan gave the dodge the FINGER 😅😅😅 and she did budge...

[@mastahc411]

I have a 2012 and the key cylinder turning without a key is completely normal the dashboard will say invalid key

[@ronaldwarren1267]

I found the best way to fix a Chrysler product replace everything between the number plates like ont a Toyota for example

[@CajunShrek]

But why it doesn't lock out?

[@chadgardee1496]

I couldn’t program key with the launch on that body of ram I can on jus about any other dodge Chrysler

[@crisprtalk6963]

This owner should be placed in the penalty box for walking around with only one key and a beat up key at that!

[@Z-Ack]

You walk around with 2 keys to your car? What if you lose the set of keys? You got a 3rd stashed somewhere else or do you have 2 separate sets of keys you carry around all the time? Or you got one in your wallet or something as a backup? Carrying around a big ass key fob like these new cars use would be hella uncomfortable for the buttcheek..

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Spare key would have definitely made this diagnosis more definitive xD

[@n9wox]

The penalty will be Ivan's bill and having the truck stranded.

[@scotts4125]

@@Z-Ack People losing keys, locking their keys in their car, going swimming with their keys,dropping keys in the sewer (and asking if I have a magic sewer retrieval tool "yes I do a new Key for $350") are paying for my sons college. If it wasn't for humans messing their keys up I have no idea what I would be doing since the 80's. ;)

[@eddiereichel9354]

It's a dodge so it's gotta have at least 1 bad ground somewhere

[@SunCityOffroadRecovery]

I think the rfh knows when the fob is in the truck and unlocks the ignition switch

[@mikefoehr235]

I noticed this truck is nearly a trash can....all the garbage on the passenger floor. That would drive me nuts. Right at the beginning i thot bad key. Might be the first or second time this year i am right. I am on a roll.

[@GregThompson-u6g]

great work as usual but if trying to get into gone in 60 seconds part 3 you may need a little more practice

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

LOL! I'll redeem myself in Part 2 ;)

[@moparscot9271]

How did the fob unlock the doors? Also in a section if the scan tool looking at data the computer read the fob voltage as 3.01 volts. Is this possible if the fob is bad?

[@MattyEngland]

Lock/unlock is powered by the battery, and that is the part that is communicating it's voltage to the car. The immobiliser chip is unpowered and essentially a completely separate circuit to the powered parts.

[@ulferiksson6986]

Oboy, these quirky American cars ...

[@phprofYT]

No. I can turn my 2014 key cylinder thing without the key in it. It gets really, really mad but you can stuff your finger in and push the part at the bottom and turn it. If you hold the key next to the cylinder just right it will even start. Then go crazy as it losses rfid comm with the fob.

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Interesting lol

[@jimburgess9205]

What happened to that poor key fob? Did he run it over?

[@sophiamountain9966]

Can afford to have it towed and diagnosed but can't afford to have a second undamaged key. Genius

[@claudenewman3440]

Did you try to replace the battery in the key?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

No lol

[@scotts4125]

Read my comment above. Fob battery is not needed to start the vehicle.

[@stallen1066]

Is the battery in the fob good?

[@n9wox]

Yes, the FOB unlocked the doors, and I don't think the FOB battery is required for the transponder to respond to ignition's request with passive RFID.

[@philh9238]

Was this class instructor Matt donoto?

[@PineHollowAutoDiagnostics]

Yup Matt Donato! He's great!

[@privateer0561]

Once again, an overcomplication costs hundreds of dollars insead of a few bucks for a spare key. Also, not having a spare key is stupid. Children know to have a spare key.