Ranking EVERY Anti-Projectile Attack's Design in Smash

Projectiles: Smash Ultimate has a lot of them, and over on MockRock, we recently looked at some of the problem(s) this causes, bolstered by a lack of solid anti-projectile tools. Today, let's dive into the tools that do exist, and see how well they do their job. This is a companion video of sorts to "The Problem(s) With Zoners in Super Smash Bros." and I'll probably try and make stuff like this for at least a decent portion of MockRock videos, so let me know what you thought of the format!
______________________________________________
Main channel: / mockrocktv
Twitter: / mrmockrock​
Patreon: / mockrock​
Twitch: / mockrocktwitch​
Business email: [e-mail]
Teespring: teespring.com/stores/mockrock
______________________________________________
Music used:
"MockRock is Here (Relaxed)" - MockRock
"MockRock is Here" - MockRock
"Star Fox Medley" - Super Smash Bros. Ultimate OST
"Moon River (Instrumental)" - Bayonetta 2 OST
"Gusty Garden Galaxy" - Super Mario Galaxy OST
"Main Theme of Pokemon Red and Pokemon Blue" - Super Smash Bros. Melee OST
All original music, as well as its stems, are available for download to patrons, KZbin members, and Twitch subscribers
______________________________________________
Thanks for watching!
#SuperSmashBros #Nintendo #SmashUltimate

[@MockRockTalk]

Thanks for watching everyone! I had it pointed out that I _also_ missed Hero's shield in this list. It's obviously grouped in with the Links, but ugh, went over the entire roster like 5 times and my brain still skipped over some. Let me know what you thought of the list, as well as any future tier lists in this style you'd like to see!

[@evanpetrolle2596]

While I am still watching, I am enjoying this list regardless :)

[@pie8021]

Great video! I would have liked to see your take on Steve's Block as a projectile countermeasure

[@superfrubblez6123]

I feel like if you’re going to add witch time and greninja’s counter, foresight on mythra has a very similar attribute and slows down users or projectiles so it probably should have been on the list imo.

[@MockRockTalk]

@@superfrubblez6123 Foresight doesn't have an extended activation box like Witch Time does though

[@hahathatsgreat2]

Lol I was like "he hates bounce so much he forgot Hero has a shield"

[@mitrimind1027]

Making Ganondorf's jab reflect would be big brain if only they were brave enough to implement it.

[@edwinkjellzahn]

They need to be brave enough to completely redo him.

[@ducktail4068]

Ganon is actually OP. You only need to land 3 moves and a smash attack to win

[@honor3d463]

And he gets hit once off stage and dies 🤨

[@gavinmiller8980]

@@ducktail4068 ganon is trash, he has good damage but he relies heavily on reads, if you’re a good player you can easily beat him

[@asierx7047]

You know what? If steve downtilt can block projectiles ganon jab should at least stop them too

[@esqimo6647]

“Generally the most common direction youre gonna be holding is sideways” Mario: but how about *up*

[@dynaxfan]

can't hold up when going for the funny aerial

[@aydenator2770]

@@dynaxfan funny up aerial

[@Bruh-hr5sg]

no wonder he’s called jump-man

[@aydenator2770]

@@Bruh-hr5sg most people dont have stick jump turned on, so if you hold up on the stick then you shouldnt jump

[@cryguy0000]

Stick jump was a mistake

[@jhmejia]

You forgot Link's nair 😔 Has more use as an anti projectile than hylian shield lol.

[@IammeoramI]

The Legend of Zelda: Never Skip Legday

[@EnharmonicYT]

It legit beats Samus charge shot. That’s not ok lol

[@supremechaosbeing2696]

@@EnharmonicYT Villager tree too

[@shiranuiprestonsaga8867]

The Leg end of Zelda

[@iantaakalla8180]

Zelda’s forward and back aerials, which are her kicks, are legitimately impressive.

[@namenamename390]

On Min Min's Up Smash: Sakurai specifically mentioned in the reveal that she's designed to control horizontal space, but struggle under vertical pressure. For some reason, this line stuck with me. A few days later when Izaw released his "how to Min Min" guide, I could not help but laugh at him describing her up smash as "one of the best anti airs in the game" with Sakurai's statement in mind.

[@hahathatsgreat2]

They should have just given her something like Belmont Up-B.

[@Tonjit41]

Min Min up smash hits higher every time I see it

[@franciscovaldes4107]

Sakurai doesnt know what the fuck he is doing, we already know that

[@burlong01]

@@hahathatsgreat2 Fuck that move. So ridiculous that you get through all the projectile spam and still have to deal with that anti air.

[@Princess_Narii]

The big reason min min has the reflector is because She can reflect punches this way in arms Thats where it originates from

[@mateorodriguez2300]

I get that counters weren’t put on the list unless they were specifically programmed to do something to projectiles, but man I feel like Revenge for Incineroar should’ve been included since he was designed as a slow grappler and giving him a “delayed counter” like that seems like it was directly made to help him with projectiles

[@Chmmr]

Yeah, I clicked on this video to see what he thought about Revenge (as well as Steve's blocks) and unfortunately neither of them seemed to be here, so yeah

[@phoebe5114]

I felt the same.

[@kimotokirby1601]

Yeah, but isn't exactly a reflector or have some kind of ''unique interaction'' with proyectiles. I think is more like super armor, wich help to deal with proyectiles, but it's not like a ''unique interaction'' that's just how it works. PD: sorry for my AWFUL english, i understand pretty good the language but i'm very bad writtin it.

[@SSM24_]

If Witch Time is here, Revenge should've been here 100%.

[@suspiciousflamingpyro]

@@SSM24_ Yeah, that and Lucario/Greninja counter

[@buttersddragon]

but mockrock!!!! you forgot the belmonts' whip dangle!!!!! a very super important anti-projectile move!!!!! ah, what a classic.

[@specmoment3592]

_F tier_

[@electroshockgamer2733]

@@specmoment3592 Correction- Z tier

[@OrigamiAhsoka]

That move is so bad it’s hilarious. It does like 0 damage and flings projectiles at the most awkward angles imaginable, it’s just the weirdest move to see exist

[@connorreed7523]

Exactly, it's one of the most iconic moves in Castlevania, even if it's nigh-worthless in Smash. Simon and Richter simply cannot have joined the roster if brandishing the whip wasn't in their moveset

[@marzipancutter8144]

I wish it was ranged like sheiks used to, then it would at least be close to its canonical power

[@Luigiofthegods]

Remember when Melee Confusion reflected projectiles without changing projectile ownership so they passed right through the opponents they were supposed to punish Remember when Melee Confusion left you so negative on hit that every character in the game could retaliate with a bair (most of which were kill moves) after getting hit by your command grab Remember when Melee Confusion's only saving grace was a blatantly obvious suck-n'-cuck reliant on the narrow geometry of a single tourney legal stage that could still backfire with matchup knowledge because you were, again, negative on hit *Remember Melee Confusion*

[@n00blord14]

Remember Melee?

[@DauntlessBlade___]

Great Comment!

[@n00blord14]

@@DauntlessBlade___ Smash is the only series I can think of where its arguably most mechanically flawed game is often held in the highest regard out of all of them.

[@DauntlessBlade___]

@@n00blord14 It's ridiculous in the funniest way possible. :>

[@n00blord14]

@@DauntlessBlade___ agreed

[@thunderd7904]

Bayonetta’s witch time actually *does* reflect projectiles; it just doesn’t send them back at the opponent. If Dedede tosses a Gordo or Ness throws a pk fire and she witch times it, the projectile becomes hers and she can throw her opponents into them which is kinda neat.

[@Nacho-331]

It works with returning proyectiles, with thr belmonts or krool side b it hits them if on the way back

[@OrigamiAhsoka]

Wait really?? That’s super cool actually, I had no idea that it worked like sora’s

[@andresmiltongutierrezorteg2764]

In specific scenarios like being close between a wall and your opponent is too useful, because the opponent get hit by the explosión of the proyectile(like sephiroth) or the lingering hitbox (palutena's explosive flame and pyra's blazing end), interesting it may not attack the opponent if it's still in witch time if not after it just finish the status.

[@marzipancutter8144]

Hey, Sora does that too now

[@marihernandez5844]

Yea it's like soras deflector, but for some reason it dosenst work with links Boomerang since I've never gotten hit by it like sora's. My guess is that they overlooked it XD

[@toddrobinson8942]

The reason why Min Min has a reflect is because she kinda had one in ARMS. Her kicks would knock away attacks, but I don't remember if they specifically reflected projectiles back at opponents. I get what the Smash team was going for and think it does a good job representing the source material, but it might be a bit much for her design in Smash.

[@UltimateTS64]

Yeah in ARMS it doesn't reflect, it just deflects them so they don't get sent back

[@ChristmasPterodactyl]

The thing about her kick in ARMS is that it deflects punches. I think if they'd coded her punches to be bouncd back by another Min-min's kick instead of said kick being a traditional reflector it would've better fit her intended Smash playstyle and also worked better as a reference to her source material.

[@airgod231]

@@ChristmasPterodactyl or just give the ability for everyone to reflect it with different power needed to knock them back, for example ram ram is somewhat easy to knock back and a sufficiently strong special could knock it back but megawatt is hard to knock back and would need something like a smash attack to knock back

[@mr.mcklockwork3828]

Min min is honestly NOT very accurate to her source material... The reason she's so good is because she's missing the mechanics that make ARMS balanced. -Hitting her shield too much should stun her/prevent her from punching -Hitting her ARMS mid-flight should bat them away -Her kick reflecter should have been bair/fair/upair/roll (she can only kick while dodging in game) -ARMS are way faster to come back in smash, making her way harder to punish.

[@yotomoe5953]

@@mr.mcklockwork3828 If she had those things she'd be kinda bad. Like, changing a character for a different game is pretty standard.

[@k.u.5798]

Falco's also reflects on frame 1, which makes it very unique among reflectors.

[@cevikceviker2842]

yeah that actually makes it crazy good, with other characters you can read the reflect and send the projectile when they're in end lag but not falco

[@raydenbartley]

@@cevikceviker2842 you can literally do it to falco too

[@jadsoncaua5939]

amogus

[@brain_tonic]

Fun fact, Falco reflector is large enough to cover more than his entire body and it starts in the center of him. Therefore, if your timing is good, you can still reflect projectiles that are behind you.

[@dominickoliver7971]

@@brain_tonic Oh thats why. Ive played falco for a good while and i wondered how i magically reflect projectiles that were obviously behind me haha

[@stixsis4656]

Min Min has a reflector because in ARMS one of her special traits allows her to kick away opponents attacks, basically a pseudo reflector

[@UltimateTS64]

Yeah, accept in ARMS you couldn't send the attack back, it just deflected it

[@mythosinfinite6736]

Might've been better to send it away at an inconvenient angle, like the Pits. It'd be more accurate to the source material and make her less irritating.

[@airgod231]

@@mythosinfinite6736 it would also help with anti airing

[@Cutzerella03]

Lucas magnet should definitely be A tier, it's actually a shield pressure option, kill tool, absorbs for 2x as much, has some niche combos but not as crazy as ness, it 's a core tool for movement and forcing non projectile interactions imo

[@Ensigndo]

Yes! This!

[@captainphoton1693]

You missed something about wario neutral B, is that it charge the fart. It doesn't reflect projectile, but build up a strong kill option.

[@henryboianimations4869]

It can?!

[@Apple80089]

@@henryboianimations4869 yeah it does eating the bike also does

[@henryboianimations4869]

@@Apple80089 wow, that’s really neat.

[@larrydupp3988]

Only physical projectiles and items though. Any energy based projectiles won’t charge up waft like Samus’s Energy Ball or Falcos lazer. They only heal him .7-.5 percent

[@YounesLayachi]

It's like bucket but reversed

[@jakefromstatefarm8964]

I feel like a very important point that is being missed about Pit and DP's Uperdash Arms is that they're not Reflectors- they're *DE* -flectors. The point of the move isn't to send back projectiles at the enemy, it's to keep the projectiles OFF of Pit, and help them pressure, hence the large bounce they're given when hitting projectiles in the air.

[@ivrydice0954]

Ok *but why?*

[@babulbi]

@@ivrydice0954 Because it's a recovery move with super armor that can also kill.

[@OrigamiAhsoka]

Man I just wish the move wouldn’t randomly stop for no reason when it hits the projectile

[@ivrydice0954]

I would understand if it went through the projectile. It's just after you deflect a projectile. You're in uninterruptible endlag. You get punished for deflecting. It's like if Sora's counter was bad.

[@ivrydice0954]

@@babulbi So shouldn't the armor go through the projectile instead of having the worst reflector in the game tacked on it instead?

[@FalcoVille]

The fact that Falco's reflector is frame 1 already makes it busted. But since it also has utility outside of countering projectiles, it's just a whole new level of craziness.

[@dmitrimatthews7898]

Yeah, like being able to use it alongside laser to jab reset. It’s a really cool move.

[@FalcoVille]

The way reflector synergizes with platforms is one of my absolute favorite things about it. And it makes sense considering that Falco is a character who heavily benefits from playing on stages with platforms.

[@Renin_Reyulo]

Isn't the complaint with the move is that it's more commital to reflect more precisely than fox just hold down b?

[@Luigiofthegods]

@@Renin_Reyulo The frame 1 startup combined with an already pretty long duration makes up for the inability to hold it forever: it's arguably LESS committal in some cases due to the forward hitbox range making it surprisingly difficult to actually punish Falco sometimes (compared to Fox and Wolf, where you can fake out a projectile and dash grab them while they're holding a shine, Falco just smacks you and now you're back in neutral).

[@Renin_Reyulo]

@@Luigiofthegods As a Ryu main I disagree. I just slow shakunetsu then run up jump. If falco reflects it. Tested frame data wise, Ryu can punish the reflects endlag with a nair over the hitbox since he can run with his projectile. If you disagree lets run some games.

[@Yee-Haw_Bird]

Links shield with walking would be more busted in a traditional fighting game. Ultra Instinct Goku: Allow me to introduce myself.

[@james0644]

Dbfz is def not a traditional fighting game

[@Yee-Haw_Bird]

@@james0644 Oh my bad, the complete 2d restrictions with holding back to block with each button corresponding to light medium heavy and a special button with command inputs, command input meter based supers and specials. Totally doesnt have the same 50/50's of high low blocking. Cross ups anti airs or DP's. Totally not a traditional fighting game. What is it not a traditional fighting game, just cause its *ANIME?*

[@james0644]

@@Yee-Haw_Bird nah it’s bc of how fast the engine is it has a completely different close range and footsies game than most other fighting games, plus assists dbfz is amazing but def not a traditional fighter

[@james0644]

Oh and the air movement

[@Yee-Haw_Bird]

@@james0644 Well would you consider Marvel to not be a traditional fighting game either?

[@adomali87yearsago.71]

I feel like kirby’s placement is undeserved. I remember tricking a kirby into inhaling my gordo so I could dash attack him because of the TREMENDOS ENDLAG afterwards. And it’s like only the very strong projectiles that can actually be reflected like chargeshot

[@spicymeatballs2thespicening]

This list is based on how well designed the moves are in the characters kit, not strictly how good they are as projectile counters

[@adomali87yearsago.71]

@@spicymeatballs2thespicening I know, I just feel like he was being punished for trying what he thought would work

[@NickNick-xv6wv]

@@spicymeatballs2thespicening if that is the case then why on earth is bounce only in c tier?

[@alexmitchell2581]

Yeah, I am a Kirby main, and I just to choose to never use inhale to reflect. The risk and reward just is never worth it.

[@ivrydice0954]

@@NickNick-xv6wv Cause it's an ah gottem ggs move that shuts down certain character's entire neutrals for roughly 12 seconds. Not really fun to fight or that interesting, and kind of overturned.

[@Langeheinicke]

Mock Rock:”I like the moves that don’t take up a special move slot but still have a reflector property.” Also Mock Rock: Puts Min Min’s up smash in F-tier

[@electroshockgamer2733]

Yes, but like does Min Min really need a reflector when she already controls more space than 90% of the roster?

[@donovanmahan2901]

@@electroshockgamer2733 I dunno she might match up against wolf where she can't f-smash the laser away.

[@FedoraKirb]

He likes the attack, just not on the character it’s attached to.

[@thesaltylemon9018]

Why is kirby at s tier for an anti projectile list? Like yeah, its a very important move, but its utility for projectiles might as well just be an Easter egg

[@ChristmasPterodactyl]

He explains at 0:40

[@thesaltylemon9018]

But to rank it so high on a list specifically based on how it deals with projectiles seems a bit hypocritical. By that logic the townsfolks Pocket, and the Pit Arms should be higher since they have multiple utilities as well, and the link shields should be lower since they don't really do anything

[@lizmiller7906]

@@thesaltylemon9018 the tier list is based on design not how good it is

[@thesaltylemon9018]

@@lizmiller7906 the list is based on how well it deals with projectiles, not how it's designed, though that is taken into account. To rank a move so high specifically not because of how it deals with projectiles, but because of its other utilities is hypocritical when you have other multiuse specials that deal with projectiles

[@eatingabowlofnailsforbreak7862]

@@thesaltylemon9018 0:12

[@Rhy2412TitanGamer]

Lucas's magnet may not have the combo potential of Ness's, which compliment his fearless, head-strong attitude, but in terms of the game Lucas is from they nailed it. Lucas's magnet is about disruption. The aerial windbox pulling characters toward Lucas messes up juggles, spacing, & combos while giving Lucas cool looking movement mixups and landing mix-ups with wavebounce and breverse. The hitbox, while slow (19 frames), has a semi-spike angle and is 0 on shield. It makes his disruption capabilities with psi counter, psi shield, counter, and shield missing feel kind of mitigated.

[@ChrisAndersonJrMusic]

Lucas' psi magnet is so good imo, especially combined with rope snake, its actually really good for controlling the space in front of him

[@yeehaw8089]

the move really isn’t that good dude lmao

[@Rhy2412TitanGamer]

@@yeehaw8089 Magnet is one of Lucas's better moves. He'd have a trash landing against about half of the cast without its weaving potential & it's very difficult to see coming with only 27 FAF.

[@neexy9669]

honestly fair argument but ness’ is still way better entirely because of its combos like ness has that combo called "multimag" and the thing is if you get good at it it can be repeated infinitely on most of the cast to just get them to comically high percentage

[@Rhy2412TitanGamer]

@@neexy9669 oh yeah. I accept that ness has the better magnet for combo ability. Ness needs it though. Because he's got worse mobility and stubbier buttons. But put that tool on a fast character and the tool would be one of the most absurd combo tools. It's worse for landing though arguably. Because Lucas' has longer wavebounce/b-reversing.

[@sniggelbob]

Putting Hero's bounce that low is insane to me. I get that he doesn't always have immediate access to it, but the idea that you can become completely immune to projectiles for like 12 seconds or whatever while being completely uninhibited and playing the game like normal while your opponent has to second guess a potentially decent portion of their moveset is so effective

[@ham251977]

This isnt how good it is this is their design

[@spicymeatballs2thespicening]

I've been saying that for so long, why does everyone insist on calling mario a "jack of all trades, he's one of the strongest rushdowns in the game Also unrelated but you forgot to mention k rool's counter is the only one he can manually turn around once an attack hits it lol

[@DaRkLoRd-rc5yu]

It's mostly because of moves like fluidd, cape and fireball. But with ultimates increased speed and how fast mario is compared to the rest of the cast and how insane his aerials as well as having grabs that combo into nair strings, ladder combos and spikes they become the bigger part of his kit and he's generally a pretty spicy character these days, I'm pretty sure he's s tier.

[@markstout4376]

He’s more like a jack of one trade. That one trade being ladder combos. No he’s all around great, but Mario players always seem to have a single game plan. Not really something you’d expect from a “jack of all trades”

[@jonathanlgill]

It's because that's what he was in the first 3 Smash games, until Smash4 retooled him as a combo machine cheese character.

[@spookey3114]

Its because hes a shoto and shotos in traditional fighting games shotos are the all rounders edit: ive been playing strive for a bit and i think mario is more similar to sol rather than ky (ky is that games ryu equivalent). sol is like an all agro shoto hybrid and that def fits mario more than being a normal shoto if that makes any sense

[@sonoftheway3528]

I don't understand. Are you ranking how effective of a move they are? Or how well designed they are to make an interesting game? It seems to go back and forth

[@turi5959]

The even worse thing about pit's side b reflect is that it doesn't overwrite the projectile's "ownership" to pit, so not only does it not hurt the opponent on contact, it can still hit the pits

[@Unovah]

15:22 my main issue with kirby's inhale is that he auto eats whatever he inhales unless it's like the big blast of a charge up attack. I don't know when this change was made but in all the Kirby games I can remember, he never auto eats any projectile. (Unless you count explosives which I think just blows up in his mouth)

[@ScoutScoutScoutScoutScout]

Honestly really like Mario's cape mainly because of how it can give you a feeling of how moves can be complex and have multiple uses like how Kirby can give you a taste of other characters through his neutral b

[@ccmonty994]

kirbys inhale is cool until you try to use it on anything thats not a super powerful projectile and then get animation locked and die

[@stixsis4656]

Seriously, I hate how bad it is against projectiles so much.

[@ccmonty994]

@@stixsis4656 making it suck up projectiles was such a bigger nerf then buff

[@stixsis4656]

@@ccmonty994 They should reduce the time "eating" the projectile so it's the same as Wario's

[@ethanroumpf8923]

8:30 I’m pretty sure the pits’ side b isn’t actually a reflector because the projectiles don’t have hit boxes. So that fixes it lol

[@GameWheelReal]

They are actually classified as “Deflectors”

[@jonathanlgill]

@Ebenezer O-G Yeah, that's exactly the issue.

[@ivrydice0954]

How does that fix it? I thought that just made it worse?

[@inertiaking1]

As a rob main, I've been hit with reflected lasers. Maybe it's Rob's laser acting weird

[@jonnyc3905]

Wait... I still don't understand how Hero's Bounce is "just okay." He's safe from any projectile pressure while being able to throw out hitboxes of his own. It's balanced by the fact that he can't use it all the time and its on a generous timer. I'd say its one of the best reflects in the game...but that's just me lol

[@MockRockTalk]

I was talking more about its design than its power there, as a reflector, yeah, it's insanely strong

[@MattDustyParker]

It's just that Mock doesn't have the same appreciation for some polarizing moves like I do. Bounce and pocket would have S tier on my list.

[@markstout4376]

Agreed. It completely changes how the game is played. It just invalidates most zoning in its tracks. It also just forces some characters to play completely differently (mega man, Cptn Olimar, etc) and it even stops some characters from using certain throws. I don’t really see how bounce is inherently bad design either. Forcing novel interactions and adaptation should be encouraged in smash. Especially for characters that typically just rely on the same zoning tools. It’s such a fascinating move, as it completely changes the game while it’s out. The design is not just unique to smash, but to any fighting game I’m aware of. It’s just so crazy unique. Can you imagine having bounce move in street fighter? Or DBZ fighterz? It would completely rewrite the meta. And I would honestly love to see how players adapted. I’d contend that with players that use hero at a really high level, bounce kinda rewrites the meta already. I mean I’m not sure how Dabuz or Kameme view the hero matchup, but I’m sure they have to have a completely different game plan when they see hero fishing for bounce in the menu screen. Oh and it also counters other reflectors. All without you needing to input a command at all. What a wild move! Easily the most powerful and uniquely designed reflector in ultimate. I just love how it forces Zoners to try something new for a couple of seconds.

[@Evello37]

@@markstout4376 There is a reason that moves like that don't exist in other fighting games: balance. Zoners are designed around their zoning. Their strong projectiles are generally balanced by poor mobility and/or lackluster boxing options. Entirely removing a Zoner's access to projectiles forces they to exclusively play a melee game, but without the tools to actually do so. Same thing would happen if you took away a rushdown character's access to melee attacks. The character is just ruined. To balance a move like that, it would need to be incredibly risky and difficult to set up or it would need to nerf the user to match the neutered opponent. Allowing one character to just passively disable the central pieces of an opponent's kit isn't good design.

[@letsmakeit110]

@@Evello37 the balance is you have to burn meter to use it. I agree it's overpowered, but not inherently. Just overtuned.

[@Kramburger11]

Looking at that Zangief animation, I think he is actually rotating his head, but he's looking forward for the full range of neck motion and then very quickly spinning it around to catch up with his body like a ballerina. It just looks odd because he's spinning at superhuman speeds.

[@MockRockTalk]

Yeah, he does do very quick head turns at the very end of each rotation, but his head being perfectly stable during that motion is very unnatural haha, clearly done for the silhouette rather than realism (or as close to realism as you can get in Street Fighter)

[@dillonhaviland5491]

Id argue that Lucas has more utility because of it's windbox. At high enough percentage it's great, especially when someone is edge guarding you. You just yeet them behind you and can reverse edge guard or get safely back to stage

[@ericklb9076]

I love video essays, I love smash. S tier content, glad you can start making money from this. It's well deserved.

[@notapro6430]

Is this based on uniqueness or how good the move/trait is? I would assume Link’s shields should be F tier because of the blind spots, only working while standing still or walking, and not actually reflecting

[@yeehaw8089]

did you watch the beginning of the video or are you just dead

[@notapro6430]

@@yeehaw8089 he says it’s based on design not power but the design is still terrible and more of an easter egg

[@MrDrumStikz]

Regarding Mario's cape: I think it's important to have deep options for beginner characters, so that new players are encouraged to develop new skills.

[@UltraPaperGamer]

I disagree so hard with the list, It erks me how high Kirby is and how low both Bounce and Pocket are in the ranking. I understand that picking bounce has no risks... But is also a move that cost resources AND you is not guaranteed that you're going to get it when you need it, is also very unique since is the only reflect that's use pasive in the characther. Pocket should be S tier, Is such a creative reflector, is literally Inhale but for proyectiles, yet you decide to put Kirby's one, The move that DOESN'T REFLECT and PUNISHS YOU for using it as a reflector instead of the one that is literally design as a reflect. There's other little things like Min-Min beeing in F when her reflector is pretty good and should be compare with Ness/Lucas Bats, Not having Incineroar's Revenge, design to punish the spaming of proyectiles but you include both Lucario and greninja's counters, Fox and Wolf have the same move with minimun changes in their design yet they are in diferent tiers, same with the Marios. The rest of the list is more or less fine, But I can feel Bias against some moves and in favor or other regarless of the viability as a reflector, which is what the list was about.

[@ArchSageDragonlord]

So the moves you chose to rank were largely ones that had some unique interaction with projectiles such as absorbing, reflecting, taking, deflecting or healing off of it and yet the ranking also doesn't just factor in this one common trait they have. You even went as far as to count some counters just because they're ranged enough to punish projectiles. You put Kirby Inhale in S when its ability to handle projectiles isn't that useful and yet put Bounce, the only reflector that stays active without the character commiting to it in C. If you're going to count some counters, why not count the rest? As Lucina for example, you have your typical options of dealing with projectiles that everyone has. You can try to destroy it with an attack, dodge it with a jump, spot dodge, roll or air dodge, you can shield it or you can counter it. That still removes the projectile from play with you taking no knockback or damage from it and it's an option you have in the air and on the ground that never runs out unlike say an air dodge or double jump and it's an option not every character has. For that matter, you could've counted armored moves as well such as K. Rool's dash attack and Terry's Buster Wolf. Those moves can also directly punish projectile moves from a range similar to the Pokemon counter's you counted. If the ranking isn't going to be focused on the 1 trait the moves have in common then I question what the point in ranking the moves at all is. That'd be like if I decided to rank every punching move in the game and said Ganon fair is better than Luigi dash attack. Like, of course it is but those moves serve completely different purposes, they both just happen to involve punching. Editing in a better analogy. It'd be like ranking every recovery move and putting Hero spell menu in S even though Zoom is risky because of RNG but it goes to S because of everything else it does when the only reason it'd be considered is because of Zoom. Without that 1 spell, it wouldn't be in the ranking. Same goes for Kirby's inhale eating projectiles.Inhale can be a better move than Fox Reflector overall but if you're bothering to rank specific moves like them solely because those moves have some interaction with projectiles then why wouldn't the ranking be focused on that? That's the 1 thing linking all these moves together at all. I don't mean to come off as rude and if you enjoyed making the video then that alone can be the reason for ranking the moves. I just got to the part with Kirby Inhale, heard you barely talk about its ability to handle projectiles and basically just said 'it's in S cuz it's Inhale and it does so much other, non-projectile related stuff for Kirby like be cool and fun and bring in newcomers' which bothered me enough to make this comment given that the title of the video out right says what the theme of the moves being ranked is: anti-projectile. Your description for the video even says you'll look at the tools that do exist (for dealing with projectiles) and see how well they do their job. Kirby's does a poor job at the very reason it's in this ranking and yet still gets S ranking for completely unrelated reasons.

[@inertiaking1]

Well in his defense, a few projectiles like Rob's don't stop unless you reflect them

[@cyrilfiggis2879]

Was thinking this same thing. Seems like at the start he was ranking based off how good of a reflector or anti-projectile move they were and then he’s like “Inhale is iconic and PSI Magnet has awesome particle effects. S Tier!” So? Rank them as projectile negating moves not ones you think are cool

[@FedoraKirb]

MockRock stated multiple times throughout the video that this is not a power ranking. You can even tell this much by the rankings themself: no one in their right mind would put Kirby’s inhale as an S Tier anti-projectile tool if this was strictly based on power. It’s an opinionated tier list on how much he likes that move, with power simply being one aspect. The moves in this tier list are moves that he considers to have been designed with the intention of being used for projectile interaction. While I disagree with some of the moves on this list meeting that criteria, you can at least make an argument for some of these being considered to have “projectile interactivity” (as MockRock himself does), as all of the moves on this list interact with projectiles in a way that the universal mechanics simply don’t allow (reflecting, healing, powering you up, burst movement, etc.). Classic counters like Lucina’s basically function like parries against projectiles and so don’t really qualify under this criteria.

[@PineapplePineapplePineapplePin]

Shoutouts to Kazuya's reflector having a 2.4x multiplier on it, the highest in the series history

[@Tonjit41]

He needs it

[@PineapplePineapplePineapplePin]

Not to the point where a grenede egg kills at 90 and charge shot kills at 0

[@spizarro5577]

What if it was actually meant to be a 1.4x multiplier but some programmer accidentally typed 2 instead of 1?

[@EdgieAlias]

@@Tonjit41 That's not funny

[@shaghilathar3588]

@@PineapplePineapplePineapplePin Yep

[@frog5961]

For the Miis, Mii swordfighter’s Reversal Slash ranks equally as high as Mario’s cape, Mii gunner’s reflector is on Fox’s reflector’s rank, and it’s absorber ranks near Ness’s PSI Magnet.

[@Fonzzz002]

It feels more like you're looking at their usefulness outside of reflecting rather than their usefulness as a reflector. Fox is able to instantly reflect something from all angles and keep the reflector up for as long as you want (assuming you're not falling), while Falco throws his reflector away and only reflects forward. In that regard I'd put Fox in S and Falco C, but as an offensive move Falco is more useful indeed.

[@ivrydice0954]

He's not talking viability.

[@pandinus1377]

@@ivrydice0954 he kind of is

[@ivrydice0954]

@@pandinus1377 That's not the focus of the tier list.

[@pandinus1377]

@@ivrydice0954 thats what he says it is but i think he factors in viability so much it loses that focus

[@juniperrodley9843]

@@pandinus1377 It's just that viability is a large part of good design. No matter how good the rest of the move is in terms of design, it won't matter if you never get to use it.

[@rickster6755]

Would've been cool to see Zelda's Phantom discussed some. By default it blocks and neutralizes all non peneteating projectiles that hit it. If she uses the Displaced Phantom tech, she can build her primary zoning tool while shielding herself from counter zone attempts. It makes her a pretty good anti-zoner- zoner in certain MUs

[@liamm113]

I've realized just how underutilized b reverse orbitars and ESPECIALLY rising orbitars are as well. Rising orbitars are great for mixups and short hop orbitars give you more room to work with when you're in the corner bc of the windbox.

[@yeehaw8089]

if you’re in the corner and you use orbitals I am going to jump in and get a full length combo on you

[@liamm113]

@@yeehaw8089 oh, I'm not at all saying to use them on the ground (unless ur using them for their intended purpose of reflecting). If you just sit in the corner and use them grounded, you realistically gain nothing. That's why you jump in with them, bc it helps you get more stage control back. That being said, for sure only rely on it as a mixup, because it's for sure punishable if you see it coming

[@flamingpaper7751]

An issue I have with Pit's Guardian Orbitars. When your opponent breaks them, they are almost always unsafe and Pit can act before the person who broke them. Pit should immediately be punished and be slightly unsafe if you break the move

[@elijahfernandez2002]

While that's true, the punish Pit gets is the inability to deal with projectiles while the shields recharge. So even though the attacker loses when breaking the shields, the next few seconds allows the opponent to hit you with all the projectiles they want without fear of a reflection.

[@fr0stdr4ke95]

I would rather not have one of my most honest mains nerfed in such a dramatic way.

[@greentoonlink]

@@elijahfernandez2002 Not to mention the fact that there's no indication of when exactly the orbitars are fixed. While it's always a set amount of time, most other "refreshes" like Robin's tomes or Wario's bike at least get obvious cues on when they can be used again.

[@H4ri4n]

Min Min's up smash is a reference to how in arms, if you back/side dash, she kicks forward and it stops any approaching arms.

[@dbgr9875]

I'd love to see, like you mentioned in your zoners video, moves with projectile intangibility. Ganon's down b, Raptor Boost, and slide kick attacks would all become much cooler because of this. Also, I think it would be cool to have more normal attacks just delete with projectiles when they collide, like Link's nair. I feel like Ganon's nair would be perfect for this, making these basic moves into more versatile tools as defensive options. I'm back and forth on parries reflecting, on one hand everyone has a way to send back projectiles, reflecting always felt like a major but underused mechanic of smash, but on the other hand, everyone has access to this very powerful reflect but it takes so much practice to do it creates a major skill barrier.

[@spicymeatballs2thespicening]

Perfect shield reflect would make characters with peojectiles so much weaker imo, not worth disrupting the games balance so drastically, although a select few characters having it as a passive would be super cool

[@TinkC43]

If they include perfect shield reflects, just make the reflect weaker. That’s what they did in Melee

[@yeehaw8089]

I do not want raptor boost to be an even better burst option it does not need to have projectile intangibility

[@dbgr9875]

@@yeehaw8089 We'll balance it by shifting Falcon's hitbox even more when he turns around 👍

[@YounesLayachi]

It's pretty funny to me how mock showed/mentioned ryu's tatsumaki senpukyaku in SFV as an anti projectile move but didn't consider ranking it in smash

[@dabluepittoo-aqua4213]

Fun Fact: Dedede's inhale is the only one in the game that can't break.

[@YounesLayachi]

You forgot pocket

[@indexRight]

So as a fellow pit main I’d argue orbitars gets at least in A tier out of overall viability, down b b-reverse is great for a landing option mixup and it’s practically aerial shield if used right and most people don’t like to land with the move active they will cancel it and land normally just to prevent free grabs, but in terms of the reflector itself it’s pretty accurate due to being hit in the toe with projectiles all the time :(

[@rouge-ish324]

Legit if it didn't have the toe vulnerability it would be high tier at least imo. It got some very important buffs transitioning from Sm4sh and that's the only thing that holds it back

[@babulbi]

I completely disagree with pockets placement. The fact that it can disable some character's options is what leads to interesting interactions. With the opponent having to play around the fact that villager might be in range to pocket the projectile without getting punished, and villager having his pocket disabled until he loses it.

[@anaypatel60]

for example wario bike

[@OrigamiAhsoka]

@@anaypatel60 yeah ok that one kinda sucks, I think the rest are all cool though

[@ivrydice0954]

Villager needs Pocket less than Simon needs water. You're not really as rewarded compared to them if you just hold in to it. There's not a lot of interaction since the threat of losing said water makes you use it less often which is what you're going to do anyway. It just seems too polarizing.

[@ketsuban_jpg]

I'd argue Pit and Dark Pit's reflectors are pretty cool. I think uppercutting an opponent's precious projectile into the stratosphere (especially a charged projectile that took work to get) is both badass and hilarious, most of his argument about them was how bad it is in functionality even though he said the list wasn't based on how good the move is really.

[@ivrydice0954]

Have fun punching that projectile while I charge my F-smash.

[@ketsuban_jpg]

@@ivrydice0954 I never said it was a practical reflector, but the coolness factor is definitely there.

[@MagillanicaLouM]

Yeah he was very inconsistent with how much he was going off visual design vs primarily ranking off of meta game utility/strength and even then inconsistent in that regard. Like how the pits side bs sucked but then putting MinMin in F for being too good for her character gameplay archetype (while also completely ignoring its an ability she can do in ARMS itself, just smashified). This definitely ain't his best work but it's over a year ago so eh.

[@SeisoYabai]

"I think in a lot of fighters, Links shield would be busted" *laughs in Goku*

[@noname-do5wo]

If your talking about UI Goku in DBFZ, fuck that guy

[@SeisoYabai]

@@noname-do5wo True but ironically his walking property that dodges ki blasts is next to useless

[@Marc-rw3dd]

UI goku was the first thing that came to my mind

[@simonlane6368]

Marios cape is definitely S-tier just based on its edgeguarding potential.

[@DaRkLoRd-rc5yu]

I think your under selling fox's reflector. It comes out instantly and you can hold it unlike falco's which you have to time perfectly. With fox if they're stalling out firming their projectile you don't have to think about it as fox just hold it til they fire and if you see them approach instead you can just drop it or tap shine to get the hurt box of the activation frames to try and beat their dash attack. Or you can just jump out of shine.

[@pandinus1377]

Covers front and back too

[@samstouffer3078]

Good list. Lost it at Lucas though. Should have stayed in A. There is a good comment explaining why and I’m too lazy too. But hey maybe I’m taking this too seriously

[@Cutzerella03]

mhm

[@m0bywik461]

Kazuya reflector being able to instant kill with like every strong projectile in the game (and sephiroth's counter yea we've seen the clips) with a move that comes out AS FAST AS PALUTENA'S is so absurdly unbalanced. Its such an easy input if you've literally played any other fighting game F Tier F Tier F Tier F Tier F Tier F Tier F Tier just make it a normal fucking multiplier and its fine end rant

[@Square_Rabbit]

The amazing thing about Upperdash and Electroshock is that more often than not the projectile's ownership doesn't even change, so if it did somehow go towards the opponent (maybe Abra teleported them or something) it might not even hit them. Most of the time, anyway. The Pitcord actually has a spreadsheet dedicated to how each projectile interacts with the Arms, namely whether it gets deflected or reflected (or neither) and if it changes ownership or not.

[@inertiaking1]

I keep seeing comments like this and wondering why I've been hit by reflected rob lasers from electroshock

[@oryionterrell6498]

Minmin's reflector actually does make sense for her character not necessarily her character archetype but the move comes from her source game in which one of her gimmicks is she can reflect attacks with a kick (but I think her having a counter would exaggerate the issue with her reflect)

[@gio_setsuna]

Hmm I wonder how Mythra's foresight fits in here

[@CoinBox170]

Something worth mentioning about King K. Rool's Gut Check is that reflecting a projectile causes a "gust" that acts as a hitbox that does a decent job covering above and to his side. This makes it a great asset against characters like Link and Mario who want to approach from the air with a projectile.

[@chapystick_]

“Pocket is unfair” **Character is literally bottom 5**

[@antoninocannavacciuolo9888]

thankfully

[@pter8875]

The thing about that is that it doesn't matter where your character falls on the tier list, what matters during a game is the matchup you're playing right now. So, it doesn't change that pocket is annoying as all hell for K. Rool, Diddy, and Link. That tier list placement just means Villager is poorly designed in other ways too.

[@chapystick_]

@@pter8875 While I agree it’s annoying, I believe it’s necessary. More specifically with Isabelle, she has horrible tools and struggles in every matchup, so the ability to completely remove a tool from her opponent is vital.

[@TheBlueWizzrobe]

@@chapystick_ Yeah, but it's way too specifically targeted at certain characters. It would be one thing if Isabelle was designed around removing tools from opponents across the roster, but it just comes off as annoying when she just so happens to have the ability to get rid of an important tool _specifically_ for the character that you play as.

[@chapystick_]

@@TheBlueWizzrobe Maybe that’s because she can’t remove a tool… that isn’t a projectile… She’s a tiny dog with microscopic hitboxes. If she can’t remove a projectile from a zoner, literally how is she supposed to get in? I acknowledge it is annoying, but I’m arguing she NEEDS it in her kit. If you play a zoner yourself, you’re the annoying one anyway. 😂 I should know, I main richter and dabble with Zelda

[@MaxWelton]

I’d love to see a character-specific mechanic tier list.

[@cramorant9316]

I just want to mention the fact that doc's side special does have a difference from mario besides the stalling in mid air. Doc's cape happens to hit under ledge against all characters so an arguement can be made that it is a better version of mario's becuase it is able to beat out around half the recoveries in ultimate.

[@supremechaosbeing2696]

17:51 if you pocket any pacman fruit, he can still charge another. However, pulling it out of your pocket while he's charging stops him, which makes it deliberately bullying and kinda funny

[@Princess_Narii]

The big reason min min has the reflector is because She can reflect punches this way in arms Thats where it originates from She does this in the original game so thats why they added this in her smash kit That kick move is such a trademark move in Arms when she gets used That im super happy to see they added it in smash

[@YounesLayachi]

Minmin's reflector can be better balanced by only reflecting physical projectiles and not energy ones. Or it could be changed into a "this moves makes minmin invulnerable to physical attacks" since it doesn't make sense to reflect non-projectile melee moves in smash

[@CopperScott]

I feel like Mii Swordfighter's reflector is unique enough for its own ranking. #StopIllegitimizingMiis

[@leftoxfluxinton3388]

How exactly does it differ from the likes of Mario or Doctor mario's cape, aside from being a down input instead of a side input

[@CopperScott]

@@leftoxfluxinton3388 it comes out faster and, lasts longer, speeds up projectiles faster, and has less lag.

[@nessleepk]

Rosalina Down B and Pocket are just so much fun to play with, I mained Villager alongside Ness in Sm4sh and tried playing Isabelle. Could not be more fun

[@genepeebody303]

Nesses magnet is a top 20 move. It’s so insane lol

[@idiotcat7696]

Dude... I love your videos! From this channel to your main, are so good and incredibly well made!

[@samsneedtoplay1479]

I really enjoy the content on this channel, keep it up

[@guardianflora5640]

An unmentioned aspect of pits orbitars that would bump them to A for me personally is that they also block physical moves, allowing for a midair shield that no other character really has (that i can think of) and allowing pit to cheese some recoveries with a good read

[@rouge-ish324]

9:20 It's also *horrendously* unsafe on block too. I've had people charge smash attacks or set up combos in my endlag.

[@DrMDC]

I thoroughly enjoyed this tierlist video! One suggestion I do have is that the tiers on the list all have titles that show what each counter (or anything being ranked) needs to achieve. I suggest using The Duke of Dorks’ style tier list where each tier has a caption as to what each tier is categorized as (S tier being perfect, B tier being Pretty Solid but have small flaws)

[@CalebWillden]

Thank you for the rant on the Pits' arms. I feel that so much, haha.

[@dabeastle7116]

the orbitars can also nullify certain recoveries like ness, sephiroth, and others with properties that end the up-b or have "finishing" hitboxes as well as attacks from the sides, which can help when recovering low against a player using projectiles as an edgeguard tool. there's a whole lot of tech left in that move that is really overlooked

[@Snowballsage]

Shine is actually still very good in brawl for different reasons, not as good as melee but definitely much better than smash 4 and probably even better than ultimate

[@squirtle3744]

Yeah it can stall very well

[@saintnick7252]

As a Lucas main: "Alright, Lucas' Magnet isn't as good as Ness' but at least MockRock recognizes that it's almost as good--" *proceeds to watch him drop it a tier for no reason* As an Isabelle secondary, IMMEDIATELY watches him put Pocket in F tier. Me as he praises Bucket: "What? There's literally no reason that move should reflect, he's just holding a bucket. It doesn't make any sense." MR: "I have no idea why Rob's side B reflects." Me: *Proceeds to flip every table in range*

[@jackdotzler6115]

1. I feel as though Incineroar is deserving of a mention with counter as it pressures a zoner into not throwing out projectiles haphazardly 2. I like the inhale/eating command grab, however I feel as though there is more potential for versatility. Like for Dedede if you can wait to spit it out (and potentially move while holding a projectile) and choose to swallow it for health. Kirby (and dedede if changed to be able to heal) should be able to heal an amount proportional to the power of the projectile. Either that, or Kirby should be able to use copy ability on that characters projectile.

[@peterduprey7286]

Mii mains: But muh reversal slash! Muh echo reflector! Muh absorbing vortex!

[@ncooc1533]

@@largin386 wha-

[@grandsongames1582]

I love how well mockrock's tierlists try to follow the normal curve. Statistics good

[@vick7868]

I feel like Pac-Man's Fire Hydrant should have been put on the list. Its and amazing tool for weathering storms of projectiles and forcing them to come in close. The same can also be said for Steve's Blocks.

[@donovanmahan2901]

His minecart also has anti-projectile capabilities but that's more a quirk of how the monecart works than anything else.

[@vannsylten6765]

Zoners vs Bounce Hero: Guess I'm not interacting for 20 seconds.

[@crazyarceus4617]

I honestly had no idea that pocket shut down character's options. Ig thats kinda understandable as to why, since it needs to keep track of it and it didnt exactly "despawn", but i agree that its unjustifiable in how unbalanced that is good call, Rock

[@YounesLayachi]

Pocket has a 30 seconds timer after which the pocketed item despawns, which is fair for non-item projectiles but for item projectiles it can be just repocketed easily to reset the timer.

[@Connor_Kirkpatrick]

I LOVE Hero’s bounce because as a Dedede player, it gets me to stop chucking projectiles every other second, and force my attention on my neutral.

[@YounesLayachi]

As an ex-dedede main and current hero main, I also enjoy the interaction between gordos and bounce. Both moves and characters are already jank enough in their own, and when combined, it's jank overload lol

[@jonathangough5331]

I really like that you included lucario and greninja’s counter even tho you they aren’t primarily used as an anti projectile move but you can use the home-in effect to punish the use projectiles if you are close enough to the opponent. Also, fun fact: Lucario has a very surprisingly good matchup against pikachu despite the huge difference in tier list placement since his counter prevents pikachu from using t jolt as an approach option or whenever lucario is near pikachu. Same also applies to the peach matchup to some extent as his counter is also a very help tool against turnip.

[@Ensigndo]

Lucas main here, PSI Magnet as a whole is a useful way for movement and spike set ups with the wind box it creates when first brought out, as well as it CAN kill with the spark hit box in Lucas’s hand. I wouldve agreed on an A rank tbh 😞

[@MattDustyParker]

Great vid Mock, even if we don't share some design values. I love how pocket and bounce just eliminates some options in specific match ups. I can understand why Incineroar's revenge wasn't mentioned here, and yet I feel it deserves some attention. Much like Witch time, while it doesn't focus around projectile management, it can fill in on that role. If incineroar didn't have some of the worst mobility stat wise, revenge could be such a threat. He still loses to run away projectile vomiters yet I love he was given Revenge, otherwise he would be so much worse. Also like witch time, no mention of foresight on Mythra? I still don't completely understand their differences, yet under the assumption that Foresight is just better. Also while not directly tied to anti projectile discussion, the way Olimar's Pikmin grab items is something I'd enjoy hearing your thoughts on. It's a much more passive ability similar to Pocket and Rosa down special, but the Pikmin just carry items to Olimar for him to grab. Only denies moves in the same sense as if you'd snatched it normally in neutral. Pikmin interactions in general amuse me much like Rosa Luma spacing seems to amuse you. Anyway great video, always a joy to see an upload from you. Hope all is well.

[@kylerodgers3608]

Couldn’t not disagree more about Isabelle/ villagers pocket . Calling something “not fun” by disarming characters projectiles is a very strong move. If you have samus’ charge shot pocketed you have so much KO power. Also you didn’t mention at all that pocket makes these Isabelle/ villager invincible in the air, so they can’t get it. You can also switch directions in mid air so this makes a nice mix up.

[@leounlimited3417]

Tier list video! Your "every character's XYZ change" videos are what hooked me in to your channel, so seeing them return in a smaller form is exciting for me! Something about an analysis of a character's strengths and weaknesses in relation to only themselves is so refreshing compared to the endless deluge of tier lists and matchup charts-- which are important, of course, but to a casual like me I'd rather know that Jigglypuff has a horrible down tilt (and not use it) than that Greninja is +2 against ROB (note: unverified statistic and I have no idea what I'm talking about anyways ;P ) Hope you enjoy the content you put out in the way you put it out, because I'm certainly enjoying it from my end of the internet!

[@delaneyelekes8660]

Late comment, but I LOVE Wolf's reflector. I think it's similar to Falco's in that it isn't *necessary*, but it does have a spot in your arsenal if you want to use it, just not in the same way. Just like his blaster, it's just good at disrupting opponents. If you jump into them, they rarely expect you to shine, and it coming out at 6 frames it's pretty quick. It also just has a good sized hurtbox. It's especially useful against slower characters trying to combo you, since it comes out faster than even his aerials. Problem is, you were looking at it trying to see how good it is for combos, when its utility lies elsewhere. If you're getting combo'd in the air as Wolf, it's inarguable that it's one of his best options for getting out.

[@Alexcoman51]

I’ve just noticed that in ROBs side B the cord should get tangled or snap but it doesnt

[@CarbonMalite]

One reflector I never understood was Mii sword. Like you'd expect it to work exactly like Mario cape but the timing on it seems really delayed despite the animation being pretty quick

[@MB-nw8wu]

I love the fact that pocket prevents characters from using their items

[@Toastguy716]

Villager and Isabelle’s pocketed items should at least have a chance to drop when getting pummeled and/or thrown

[@randompie1890]

Isabelle is already bottom 5

[@gatolf2]

Pits down special is already a decent reflector so it’s kind of irritating that their side specials are designed to reflect the way they do. It goes up at an angle that it misses your opponent and it also stops them from moving forward. It would have been nice if that move would just go straight through the projectiles and hit the opponent instead.

[@theedwardian]

Rosalina's gravity well would have been cooler if it kept the projectile in orbit around her for a lot longer, like a shield. It would probably make her too good

[@deandage2703]

Best thing about bucket is dealing with explosives. You can actually just ignore some explosions by using bucket, or just reflect it before it explodes.

[@jacksonmaston23]

Kirby should deffintelly have the Anti-Projectile style of Dedede, or spit it out as a star like he does in the games

[@determined5587]

19:50 Zangief does spin his head when he does his VT, it just happens really fast

[@Gamersgoinblind]

Actually for Zangief (and rufus) when you KO an opponent with their spinning moves, it actually shows their head rotating and spotting while they spin

[@Nathan-uc6rn]

I would've put Pit's orbitars higher tbh. It's a reflector that actually acts as a shield, I think that deserves higher than B tier.

[@DeronHargrove]

I love hearing how you explain your thoughts