Ranking the Albums: 38 Special w/Tim Durling

Ranking the Albums: 38 Special w/Tim Durling
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[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

0:46: 🎸 Exploring the evolution of 38 Special's music catalog with Tim Durling, from their formation to their mid-80s sound. 6:38: 🎵 Discussion on ranking 38 Special albums, disappointment with the 2004 album 'Drivetrain', and anticipation for new tracks after a long hiatus. 13:09: 🎸 Discussion on 38 Special band members, past and present, and their performances. 19:43: 🎵 Critique of album featuring replacement vocalist Max Carl, produced by Rodney Mills, with a smooth sound. 25:58: 🎸 Analysis of 38 Special's album 'Bone Against Steel' and the impact of guitarist Jeff's departure. 32:55: 💔 Disappointing final album lacks playfulness and falls short of potential, despite well-played music and production. 39:33: 🎵 Analysis of 38 Special's album 'Strength in Numbers' reveals extensive collaboration with multiple musicians and songwriters. 45:48: 🎵 Rare 38 Special albums from the late 80s are hard to find, especially the first two records. 52:04: 🎵 Comparing 38 Special's second album to their debut, noting improved cohesion and similarity to their signature sound. 58:50: 🎶 Ranking the albums of 38 Special with Tim Durling based on personal preference and album quality. 1:05:20: 🎵 Comparing the musical style and success of 38 Special and Survivor albums, highlighting Jim Peter's songwriting skills. 1:12:19: 🎶 Passionate ranking of 38 Special albums, with high praise for 'T of Force' as the top pick. 1:17:55: 🎸 Exploring live performances and album tracks of 38 Special, including rare recordings and festival appearances. Recapped using Tammy AI

[@ericrobertson2024]

Ride The Storm is the Barnes solo album Tim references...Face The Storm is the best track on the 87 Myles Goodwyn solo album..A&M inexplicably chose Little Sheba + Rock N Roll Strategy as singles.38 should've dropped them,not vice versa.2 of their worst songs,and that's out of 120 !! Off course the label redeemed itself with 2nd Chance,,,Midnight Magic and Coming Down Tonight should've been the other tracks peddled to radio and MTV though.

[@logancollins7097]

Excited for this one! Great group them and Jim Peterik wrote some of the great 1980s AOR rock ever

[@ericrobertson2024]

Imagine feeding songs to Jamison and Barnes to sing,that's like guaranteed $.It was mutually positive for sure.

[@wolf1977]

Yep starting with Ides Of March ("Vehicle" hit it big) all the way back in '64 (he was 14)! Survivor of course is an all time classic AOR band. Others that cashed in on his songwriting: Cheap Trick, The Doobies, Sammy Hagar, Beach Boys...Was also in the very good Henry Paul Band - Grey Ghost is a great record - as well as in the late 60's/mid 70's jazz-rock band Chase (Ennea & Pure Music are really good albums, good examples of that period's strong horn rock a la early BS&T)

[@Skycladatdusk78]

I was going to post my ranking, but it's exactly the same as Tim's! Great episode for a legendary southern rock band. Now they just need a new album, Drivetrain was the most recent from 2004 so it's been 20 years. I just saw them in 2022 and they still rock. Would love a new album from the current band.

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

How cool is that! haha

[@JCStorm76]

Your rankings the same as Tim’s? Lol. After watching his ranking I honestly thought nobody else in the world would agree with it. Grants was way closer to mine and but each to his own. I’ll say one thing in favour of Tim. Tour De Force is better than WESBoys

[@Skycladatdusk78]

@@JCStorm76 Yeah they match up exactly, on which day you ask Special Forces might be my #1 but other than that everything is spot on.

[@Thunderstruckzzz]

Outstanding ! Thank you Grant and Tim. Love the catalogue ! Great discussion. Thank you . Chez

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

Our pleasure!

[@billsciamanna7580]

I have been a fan of 38 special since 1980 and have seen them in concert 45 times since 1982. All the lineups. They are still great today. Here are my top 11. 1. Wild Eyed Southern Boys. 2. Special Forces. 3. Tour de Force. 4.. Rocking Into the Night. 5. Strength in Numbers. 6. Resolution 7. Special Delivery. 8. Drivetrain. 9. Rock and Roll Strategy. 10. 38 Special 11. Bone Against Sreel

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

That is an excellent ranking! Love it!

[@chrisfouser2190]

Great video guys !! .38 Specials my favorite!! Seen those guys many times!!

[@JCStorm76]

Strength In Numbers is my favourite. Now that’s what I call a contrarian pick

[@ericrobertson2024]

Somebody Like You,Hearts On Fire,Like No Other Night...It actually compares well to the 4 previous albums..I think of those 5 as good yet not great due to the inevitable filler/duds which Van Zandt usually sang.

[@JCStorm76]

@@ericrobertson2024 How about Against The Night? It’s a hidden gem. Glad you like the album too

[@ericrobertson2024]

@@JCStorm76 Yes ,on the 80s albums i usually skip the songs with Van Zandt on vocals but Long Time Gone, I've Been A Mover,Turn It On were good earlier songs.I guess Barnes got the better material they hoped/knew would be hits.

[@georgemathie8123]

Love this album Keith Olsen got some great performances from the band on this album especially on heart's on fire, just a little love and the last time my only gripe with this album is the ballads once in a lifetime and one in a million it's a little to cheesey for my tastes

[@JCStorm76]

@@georgemathie8123 Agree about One In a million it’s my least favourite on the album. Every other track I like but good to see others who love the album too. Drivetrain is their worst album. Boring

[@daveycretin664]

I always loved their rock radio hits from the A&M years. Catchy, hooky, hard rockin’ songs with memorable choruses and guitar lines. That bridge/middle eight section in “Caught Up in You” is friggin’ awesome! Also, the video to “Back Where You Belong” pays homage to one of my all time favorite TV shows, the excellent Hill Street Blues. Sterling show, sirs! Cheers from The Big Apple. 🍏 Rock Out, Prog On & Pogo! Your pal and ours, ~ The Stylish, Ticklish, Ridiculous Davey Cretin from CRETIN CLASSICS.

[@ericrobertson2024]

Best song of the year,Hill St.Blues parody,Finn Carter before she became a hardened criminal lol....It's like a conglomeration of everything Gold...Perfection on MTV of all possible places.

[@stevendavid5370]

This ranking show on 38 Special albums is 7.5 stars out of 5. Fantastic job, great content and yes I'm subscribed and I gave this video thumbs up. Don Barnes vocals is what makes this band tick. I ranked these albums as follows: 1. Special Forces 2. Strength In Numbers 3. Wild Eyed Southern Boys 4. Tour De Force 5. Rockin' Into the Night 6. Rock & Roll Strategy 7. Resolution 8. Special Delivery 9. 38 Special Debut 10. Drivetrain.

[@ericrobertson2024]

Max Carl,Carol Bristow,Donnie Van Zandt and Bobby Capps can all sing but Barnes has THAT voice like a Ben Orr,Patty Smyth or Dave Gilmour that's just custom geared for radio...They did have some chart success with 4 Carl songs yet 0 with Van Zandt singing ever charted..Barnes solo album has 2 great tracks that should've been hits.

[@ericrobertson2024]

Back Where You Belong is among the best 80s pop songs,up there with Lay All Your Love On Me(Abba)/Magic (The Cars)/Our Lips Are Sealed (GoGos)/Just Like Heaven (Cure)/I Found Love(Lone Justice)

[@JCStorm76]

Agreed. But If I’d Been The One is just as good if not better. It could actually be my very favourite 38 Special track

[@ericrobertson2024]

@@JCStorm76 I think Back Where You Belong is my 4th favorite song of the 80s....Beat Of A Heart(Patty Smyth)/Screaming For Vengeance(Priest) and I Found Love(Lone Justice) have always been my favorites....If I'd Been The One and most of Tour De Force is good,but that last track(Undercover Lover) keeps it from being a perfect album for me, same as all 5 of those LPs from 1981-86,each has one track I disliked.

[@cabowabodude]

my list 11. drivetrain 10. special delivery 9. 38 special 8. bone against steel 7. rockin' into the night 6. resolution 5. rock n roll strategy 4. special forces 3. tour de force 2. wild eyed southern boys 1. strength in numbers to explain my number one, i'm a sucker for underrated records, ie slang, generation swine, native tongue chad

[@ericrobertson2024]

Lots of people seem to like Strength In Numbers, it's my 3rd favorite...With few exceptions,I seemed to like every song Barnes sang on the 1979-87 albums and one track on each with VanZandt on vocals... Several good albums,yet nothing I would give a 9/10..

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

Nice to Strength in Numbers in #1. I just listened to it again today and I probably would rate it higher today

[@ericrobertson2024]

@@GrantsRockWarehaus The 80s shine definitely worked for 38 ala Heart/April Wine/Blackfoot/On Walsh's Confessor as well.... Somebody Like You/Same Old Feeling/2nd Chance perhaps sound dated,but they sound good !

[@soundofsoundtracks]

My personal Favorite song by them...."One Time for Old Times" which is also from my favorite album of theirs "Tour De Force"

[@ericrobertson2024]

The Monkey in the video is reading Billboard magazine but that's yet another song Donnie sings which failed to chart.

[@HenryWright-ni3eh]

Great show! I agree with Tim about WDR/Rockpalast releases. I have several of them and all are really great.

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

Why do I feel like I'm going to spend more money... haha

[@ericrobertson2024]

The top element in 38 was Don Barnes voice,now idk what happened to his voice during his time away from the band 1988-95? I believe,but he never sounded like himself when he returned to the band...As far as I know,he wasn't a huge alcohol or drug indulger by RnR standards anyway,so it's a mystery.The last great 38 song where he has "that voice" was Same Old Feeling,a new track on the 1987 Flashback compilation.

[@wolf1977]

Could be a big part of why I don't like anything post 80's from them but it's also the material

[@ericrobertson2024]

@@wolf1977 Long Time Gone and Second Chance are about as different as any band could be and those are barely a decade apart.Barnes voice and friendship with the Survivor guy virtually saved this band, because those initial 2 albums aren't exactly competitive with Hatchet,ZZ Top,Thorogood, Blackfoot,etc.

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

I bring this up during the episode

[@wolf1977]

​@@ericrobertson2024 "Long Time Gone" (from the debut) is OK but not my fave track from that album ("Play A Simple Song", "Just Hang On", "I Just Wanna Rock & Roll"). Really dislike "Second Chance" (it's not!), a good example of what I dislike about this band. WAY too pop with no memorable hooks - doesn't even sound like an SR track. Lame video too...Kinda fitting that it's included on their last 80's album (Rock & Roll Strategy - 1988) because again for me the band nosedives (except for Resolution) after this... I don't have an issue with 4 of their first 5 albums (no Special Delivery for me) - starting with Strength In Numbers (should've been better - strong on paper with Porcaro plus Jim Vallance = Bryan Adams/BTO/Prism on board) the quality declines pretty rapidly though. To your point Barnes hit the road after that one... Not a big Blackfoot fan (I like their couple of hits plus a few deep tracks off No Reservations - that's about it) personally, Hatchet had a few more good tunes (especially from their '78 s/t album). ZZ Top is in a different category (to me) - in fact I have 'em categorized as just 'plain' rock. Obviously they're from the South & feature some SR-type vibes, but more of a blues/Southern boogie band than those others. Guess it depends on how (Hold On) Loosely (see what I did there?) you define SR... TBH there are a number of 70's SR bands (besides the 'Big 5' & their offshoots) that I find more interesting than 38 Special. Hydra's a great one, Barefoot Jerry, Beaverteeth, Grinderswitch, Mose Jones, Point Blank, Raisin Kane (a shame they only put out one album = It's About Time in '78), Tennessee River Crooks (STRONG '76 s/t). Over on SoT Pete did a 70's Southern Rock series a while back that made me take a closer look. Some lesser-known 70's SR bands that to me deserve attention: Afton/First Days Of Summer - 1977, excellent vocals, kinda like CDB (but 'smoother') Crossroads/Southern Strutter - 1979 with ties to The Grass Roots/Arthur Lee, solid guitars The Eddie Boy Band - s/t from '75. Just got this - REALLY solid! John T. Leach Band/Good Life - 1976 (jazzy), maybe a more jazz/SR version of the J Teal Band Les Dudek - some great solo albums from 1974-78 Missouri Dirt/It's For You - 1977 Ned - s/t from '73. With Tommy Talton (Cowboy) Randle Chowning Band/Heart On Fire - 1978. Ozark Mountain Daredevils founder Rich Mountain Tower - s/t from '71 Roadmap/Roll It Tight - from 1978, not sure how this wasn't bigger (funky) Southern Comfort/Frog City - 1971. Ties to the great Matthews’ Southern Comfort & Harsh Reality (late 60's psyche) Thunderhead/Thunderhead '75 Tree Fox/Rough Road - 1979, this was it from them Two Guns/Balls Out - tremendous from '79, another one-and-done band. Smokin' guitars! The Winters Brothers Band/Coast To Coast - 1979, ties to the Allman Joys. Charlie Daniels & Toy Caldwell guest 6680 Lexington's s/t from 1971 is another great record (ties to Richie Furay, Wackers & the 60's band Big Foot)...Man I love good 70's Southern Rock!

[@ericrobertson2024]

More info from the Southern rep...Barnes + Carl are good friends.During the 88 tour Max did (attempt to) sing a few of the hit tracks Barnes nailed and Barnes has sung Sound Of Your Voice at live gigs in recent years.Would be interesting if they did some live shows with all 3 vocalists for their 50th anniversary.

[@ericrobertson2024]

For favorite songs I'd pick Back Where You Belong/You Keep Running Away/Somebody Like You/Against The Night/Chain Lightening/Sound Of Your Voice/Turn It On.

[@alexsuperpower1]

Great video I love 38 Special! My favorites: 1: Tour De Force (maybe not as heavy southern rockish but as I love AoR as well this album is perfect) 2: Wild Eyes Southern Boys 3: Special Forces 4: Rockin' Into The night 5: Strength in Numbers.

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

Good ranking. All of these could change in my ranking

[@alexsuperpower1]

@@GrantsRockWarehaus Thanks Grant both you and Tim were really great in this episode. I agreed a lot with what you guys were saying, Don Barnes is for me 38 special and like Tim said he should be more known.

[@carlwmpylu]

Great video & great band! My ranking: 1. Tour de Force 5/5 2. Special Forces 5/5 3. Strength In Numbers 5/5 4. Wild Eyed Southern Boys 5/5 5. Debut 5/5 6. Resolution 5/5 7. Rockin' Into The Night 4/5 8. Rock & Roll Strategy 4/5 9. A Wild-Eyed Christmas 3/5 10. Bone Against Steel 3/5 11. Special Delivery 3/5 12. Drivetrain 2/5

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

You didn't like Special Delivery like Tim. Your top 4 are good to go! Love your ranking!!

[@ericrobertson2024]

Similar to my rankings.Everything from 79-86 was 4/5 to me.Some of the weak tracks usually sung by Van Zandt kept those from being 5/5 for me..So 5 stellar LPs,,6 decent and Drivetrain i just don't like... Interesting that Tour De Force/No Guts,No Glory/Eliminator/Siogo were all 1983.The local Roanoke + Greensboro stations basically had those on rotation.

[@ericrobertson2024]

@@GrantsRockWarehaus Tim uses the terminology Skynyrd Light,I label the early stuff Skynyrd Jr lol .I liked those far more than him though.They aren't bad but they don't have that biscuits and grits feel of Strikes or Molly Hatchet's initial 2 LMAO my redneck side is jumping out !

[@carlwmpylu]

@@GrantsRockWarehaus Cheers! Think Special Delivery's a good album. I just prefer ten of their others. 🙂

[@ericrobertson2024]

@@carlwmpylu Each of those early albums has a few standout tracks.First 2 on the debut./I've Been A Mover + Who's Been Messin' , idk why DVZ didn't do that aggressive type singing more often,it works for sure.Against The Night is a later example.

[@user-dn1km6vn1z]

Rock Candy Records did the Remasters verison of Survivor, 38 Special, Toto, Blackfoot, Damn Yankees, Bad English,

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

and I've got some of them 👍🏻

[@ericrobertson2024]

My favorites were Special Forces/Tour De Force/Strength In Numbers/Wild Eyed/Rockin/Bone Against Steel/Special Delivery/RNR Strategy..

[@PetesCDVinylWorld]

Jeff Carlisi is the most underrated rock guitar player ever

[@georgemathie8123]

Loved this band since I was a kid and my top 5 are special forces rock and roll strategy, tour de force, strength in numbers and bone against steel and I've got to say Jeff Carlisi is one of the most underrated guitar players and he is a total riff Meister he's such an essential part of the classic 38 special sound and also the powerhouse drumming by Steve Brookins and Jack grondin are fantastic to

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

Steve Brookins and Jack Grondin... I couldn't remember their names! So good!

[@ericrobertson2024]

Barnes,Chauncey and Riggs are pretty handy with a guitar as well.... I'd say Barnes was the Hlubek/Collins fierce role on those earlier live concerts while Carlisi was more along the Roland/Rossington melodic style...Both were proficient.

[@georgemathie8123]

@@ericrobertson2024 yes Danny Chauncey is fantastic and don Barnes is really good to and definitely a good comparison you got there to

[@ericrobertson2024]

From the Don Barnes solo album the tracks Everytime We Say Goodbye + Looking For You could've been hits had it been released.The album has some recycled riffs from the 38 albums and does sound more like the band than the Carl albums.Its definitely better than the 2 most recent 38 albums.

[@ericrobertson2024]

Don't forget Teacher Teacher,Same Old Feeling, Fortunate Son which aren't on the studio albums...and they did a Christmas album ! ...BTW this is one of the few FL bands of the era who never did a Skynyrd cover.

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

Teacher Teacher, Same Old Feeling, Fortunate Son all great tracks!

[@carlwmpylu]

The Christmas album is solid festive fun.

[@ericrobertson2024]

More trivia...If you watch the 1977 Winterland show(Opening for the recently deceased Dickey Betts) filmed prior to their debut album being released.You'll see Barnes is singing along quite often, although he doesn't sing lead whatsoever on the first 2 albums.The songs sound better live offcourse.

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

Excellent Eric... I will check it out

[@ericrobertson2024]

I would've had Donnie below Barnes,Carl,Carol Bristow,Bobby Capps as a singer but after relistening to the 38 albums,he actually does great on stuff like Longtime Gone,Who's Been Messin',Turn It On, Against The Night.. Definitely a better singer than Johnny Van Zandt.Kinda sad none of the songs with Donnie singing ever charted.Ironic the monkey in the video for One Time For Old Times was reading Billboard magazine lol

[@user-dn1km6vn1z]

38 Special................................... Rules

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

tru dat

[@ericrobertson2024]

Pete Pardo claims the label thought the voice of DVZ was too southern...I'm southern and I disagree with A&M... Barnes sounds just as southern,he just has a better voice and ability to emote, enunciate.

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

yep

[@turefromfinland3264]

Interesting... My top 3: 1= Special Delivery, 2= Special Forces, 3= Wild-Eyed Southern Boys. And the 3 worst: Drivetrain, Strength in Numbers, 38 Special.

[@ericrobertson2024]

More trivia...0 songs from 1977-2024 with solely Donnie Van Zandt on vocals ever charted on Billboard...While around 15 with Barnes and 5 with Carl singing charted... Against The Night should've been a huge hit... Midnight Magic from Carl as well.

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

Don's voice was made for FM rock radio 👍🏻

[@ericrobertson2024]

@@GrantsRockWarehaus Carl's was perhaps ideal for AM pop radio...Looks like about a dozen DVZ songs were pushed with 0 charting...I've Been A Mover,Turn It On, Against The Night could've been hits I think.

[@hkporter7995]

They don’t play Hot Lanta.

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

Me bad...I think I was confusing it with Rough-Housin'.

[@ericrobertson2024]

They played it in 1989 and 91.

[@ericrobertson2024]

When Pardo ranked these,he claimed the earlier albums were destined to fail...Nope...Hatchet,ZZ Top,Nugent, Thorogood,Blackfoot were all selling millions at the time..Those first 2 just weren't that good.

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

I don't agree that they were destined to fail... you throw out these albums and hope they stick. 38 Special figured it out by the 3rd album though.

[@ericrobertson2024]

@@GrantsRockWarehaus Pardo claiming Southern Rock was faltering in those years was just odd...Charlie Daniels/Hatchet/Nugent/ZZ Top/Blackfoot/Thorogood all had Platinum success in those years.

[@hkporter7995]

Danny Chauncey left in 2018.

[@GrantsRockWarehaus]

me bad

[@ericrobertson2024]

Chauncey basically replaced Barnes from 1988-95 and replaced Carlisi from 1996-2018...It's not been mentioned in these comments how vital Barnes guitar work is to those early LPs and the 5 classics.

[@wolf1977]

Not huge on 38 Special personally but I do like some of their stuff. Not one of the "big 5" SR bands (that's Skynyrd/Outlaws/Allmans/ARS/Tucker), they're in that 2nd echelon (for me). Made myself a couple of SR playlists a while back, the first being the 'Southern Rock/Big 5' (plus their 'family tree') = 600+ tracks. And another called 'Southern Rock/Best Of The Rest' = about 250 tracks. That's where this band landed. And TBH they're not the best of those bands, you've got really good bands like: Barefoot Jerry, CDB, Doc Holliday, George Hatcher Band, Grinderswitch, Hydra, Mose Jones, Point Blank, Tennessee River Crooks & Two Guns. I think their debut, Rockin' Into The Night & Resolution (a surprise offering from '97) are their best - I'm sure many will nominate Wild-Eyed Southern Boys (some good tracks - "Honky Tonk Dancer", "Fantasy Girl"). Live At Rockpalast (1981) is pretty good. I basically cherry-picked 1-3 tracks per album from the debut through Strength In Numbers, about 20 tracks in all (including live versions). I think with the exception of Resolution there wasn't much to get excited about post 80's. To me a lot of that later songwriting just kinda blends into the landscape... Overall I think my 'issue' with the band is that often they're not "Southern enough" if you know what I mean, It's like most/all of the rough edges were sanded off. Now I do like some of their FM hits but then again I like melodic rock, so if going that far astray of the (hard core) SR thing then go all the way into AOR territory & give me those great radio hooks. And that can work. If they'd stuck closer to numbers like "Robin Hood", "Breakin' Loose" & "Play A Simple Song" (very pretty) that might've served them better. I get it, they wanted/needed to set themselves apart from Skynyrd & Ronnie...Maybe they needed that 3rd lead guitar...🤷‍♂BTW RIP Dickey Betts😢

[@ericrobertson2024]

Richard Betts passed away..Dickie Betts...His son is Duane Betts.

[@wolf1977]

@@ericrobertson2024 Oops corrected thx - I meant Dickey obviously

[@ericrobertson2024]

Trivia lol the woman from the Back Where You Belong video was Finn Carter,who was later in Tremors... Supposedly she stole a vehicle and some credit cards ,landed in jail post fame.

[@carlwmpylu]

When it comes to Southern bands of that era, I tend to enjoy them all but I'd say that 38 Special would be in second place for me, a hair's breadth behind The Outlaws. They'd both be in my all-time top ten rock bands list though.

[@ericrobertson2024]

@@carlwmpylu they are 2nd only to Hatchet for me... Blackfoot also had a good streak going but it was only 1979-83(4 albums)..