Ranting About Terrible Characters for 46 Minutes [Life is Strange VS No More Heroes]

[@hurlock24]

YOU KNOW THE SADDEST PART? if this was a story about abusive relationships and how "friends" are only your friends when you are "useful" for their own goals and the actual message is you HAVE to let go of people for the sake of yourself this would been an outstanding story!

[@GodOfOrphans]

Amen to that!

[@alinastanescu4430]

True I can imagine the ending of that game, Chloe crosses the line again in a way that is even worse than before and Max finaly realizes how toxic and manipulative Chloe is and rewinds time to let her die all happening while Chloe whines something like"Let me live, I will live, I hate you" and other stuff like that

[@Pooky1991]

All i can think of is Jennefer's Body which has a similar plot point to an extent, but that movie makes it clear that the friendship is toxic and acknowledges it.

[@korsekil]

​@@alinastanescu4430 Yeah. Honestly, it's not that Chloe is that bad a character - as a toxic friend she's a great case. The problem is how the narrative treats her, forcing the player into the role of babysitting and enabling her behavior rather than calling her out.

[@hurlock24]

@@npcimknot958 just yaaaaay thanks best fweind, really loving ya right now

[@sleepygamermax6782]

One of my favorite rants against Chole was this comment “ I’d trade Chloe for a bag of chips and a soda, and yes both are expired”

[@bepisthescienceman4202]

I'd trade chloe for a invisible paperweight

[@Lord_Numpty]

I'd trade her for a used post-it note with the adhesive dried out.

[@mrboerger1620]

I'd trade Chloe for a grenade that just got unclipped and is right by me about to explode.

[@redfalcon8062]

Ah yes...Chile lol. I'm sorry, it made me laugh

[@sleepygamermax6782]

@@redfalcon8062 you know if autocorrect was a person, it would’ve been killed millions of times.

[@lpsfankanr1]

It's funny how Max has actual reality-changing powers yet Chloe is the one who changes events through the power of gaslighting...

[@raylenn4444]

as always in abusive relationships, the abuser is the one exploiting the abusee's talents/powers....

[@tatiana2696]

That's so *girlboss™*

[@alexanderhamilton4574]

@@tatiana2696 LITERALYL UR SO RIGHT /srs

[@alexanderhamilton4574]

@@raylenn4444 actually chloes just hella cool so. Normalize gaslighting and manipulation

[@Subzearo]

Hella true!

[@calery5714]

I sacrificed Chloe in the End because i can't just let entire Arcadia Bay be destroyed just so save one person, or like Spock said it "The need of the many outweigh the needs of the few"

[@tuopsy]

even without that, i’d sacrifice chloe 🤷‍♀️ it doesn’t take much to wanna sacrifice her.

[@Fuk99999]

Wasn’t much of a trolley problem to me. Let this inexcusable person who can’t see how they’re horrible die to save many more people? Man, what a hard choice to make

[@romanplays1]

hell. i'd sacrifice chloe even if there wasn't a storm. would improve the town all together.

[@doraeguyakaneddie6586]

@@romanplays1 I feel like Chloe getting in the car crash and ending up in a wheel chair was the only true good ending.

[@danialyousaf6456]

I'd sacrifice her to khorne to cause the destruction of arcadia.

[@fenrir607]

To make unlikable characters likable they need to have a likable core. They need something to their personality that hints at something deeper down, and I think that's the problem with Chloe. Her actions and attitude are bad, but she doesn't do anything that could be seen as positive. I think her friendship with Max was supposed to show that inner goodness of hers, but the writers messed up and accidentally made their relationship toxic. Which makes her look even worse. Like sure she's self-centered and hypocritical, but if she was a good friend to Max people could look past her faults. Unfortunately she treats her supposed friend just as badly as everyone else.

[@Nitosa]

there are also a lot of different paths of creating a ''good'' unlikable character like, are they interesting or how does the story/setting portray and are there flaws and desires reasonable and relatable to an extend.

[@sarafontanini7051]

I guess they stopped at "she has a dead dad, a step dad she doesn't like and a missing 'friend'" and thought 'yeah, that's good enough to make her sympathetic' wthout thinking they should do somehting to like not make her come across as a selfish asshole who uses her friend for her own benefit

[@nickelakon5369]

Then they ironically succeeded at making Her "step-douche" this character. He's definite bait for people to hate, from harrassing Kate Marsh to slapping Chloe (despite the fact that he's right to sense she stole his gun and could possibly get someone killed (which she fucking does)) but when you really pay attention to his character he genuinely seems to care about others despite being a bit of a hardass which makes him come acrossed as an asshole sometimes.

[@Quandry1]

They didn't mess up and make her accidentally bad. They made her purposefully bad because that's what they think relationships are and how people should be.

[@michaelboyd395]

True. Or they can have a tragic past that helps us empathize with their circumstances

[@brunnokamei9623]

There is this manga called "Fragtime". It's about the relationship between two girls, Moritani and Murakami. Moritani discovers she have the power to stop time and Murakami is the only one unaffected by this strange power. They started to use this small time spam when everything is frozen to hang out. But the thing is... Moritani's power is slowly fading away and she starts fearing to lose Murakami's interest. And we want to know how their relationship will develop and if their love will survive Moritani's power vanishing. So, I just think "Fragtime" is a better version of "Life is strange."

[@nathanpinell6274]

Y'know what. I'll go check that out

[@n-extrafries-surprise]

Yeah me too. I'd check that out later

[@Km-uf7gj]

I just speed read that ITS FUCKING GOD TIER

[@jbbelenkokoro2673]

Now I need to check it out.

[@WittingStudios]

Yeah Fragtime was made 2 years before LIS so I think I know where the writers got their idea from lol.

[@camarokidbb4347]

Chloe: “It’s the men who need to be controlled” Also Chloe: won’t take her fucking finger off the trigger if she were in a puppy orphanage.

[@sarafontanini7051]

Chloe that's sexist

[@Predator20357]

@@sarafontanini7051 Chloe the Ass

[@camarokidbb4347]

@@sarafontanini7051 I wouldn’t care that much about the statement, coming from a straight cis guy lol. That said, *if* she’d say that shit around me or Max, she at least needs to have some common sense with a gun. Namely to *ALWAYS* treat it as though it’s loaded, don’t flag your friendlies, only point in the direction you intend to shoot at, mind the target and also what’s behind it, and most importantly, *KEEP BOOGER HOOK OFF BANG SWITCH UNLESS YOU WANT TO GO BANG.*

[@sarafontanini7051]

@@camarokidbb4347 but its kay though, she beleives in gun control, it makes it okay : 3

[@camarokidbb4347]

@@sarafontanini7051 …maybe if you’re trying to explain her behavior, sure, but that still doesn’t mean she should point the thing she clearly believes to be dangerous around like it were a toy.

[@Harleyxjokerforever]

No one can ever give me a good reason for letting a town get destroyed for Chole.

[@oooonoooo3807]

Facts

[@KeeKage37]

Well the hole town itself is really bad so it’s probably better off that way.

[@Manic_Panic]

On my first playthrough I didn't even think about it. I saved the town. Then I went online and most people saved Chloe... I really couldn't understand why. She is insufferable, unlikable and a pushover. The fact that Chloe doesn't even care her mom died if you choose to save her says a lot about her. She would probably dump Max if she found something more cool or fun to do.

[@sarafontanini7051]

@@KeeKage37 but does everyone in said town deserve to die?

[@squishish]

@@KeeKage37 Kate deserves to die? Max's family, her other friends... Now, given the choice, no one would die. But within the stories narrative.. no, killing a whole town of people isn't better than killing one, specific person. Especially when that person isn't even nice to anyone. Given Chloe was a saint of a character and incredibly likeable.. I still wouldn't choose her. Which makes it baffling to me, with how poorly she is written and how toxic she is, that most people chose her over an entire town of people. A lot of players who choose the town, aren't even loosing anything. All they lose is a character who's been shown repeatedly to be controlling, a liar, and a manipulator. It's a relief, not a sacrifice as it should be.

[@chrimbus3442]

The most unrealistic part of this game is how everyone responds to Chloe. She talks to people like how a 13 year old thinks a "badass punk girlboss" talks. If this was real life she'd get punched in the face everyday and have no friends.

[@TrophiesNclips]

Lmaoooo

[@EndThusIAm]

When the character you're supposed to like gets pissy about you answering a call from the one I character I did like, you know they fucked up

[@kimshinshiro]

Right?! I was like Chloe wtf, I can't answer a simple call? It's not like I was gonna leave her immediately. (although I wanted to)

[@axis1247]

@@haiidapuieb3332 But the tirade she goes on about max answering the call is before that argument, the writing doesn't match your rationalization.

[@fenrisvermundr2516]

@@kimshinshiro What's funny is the fact it implies I can't just talk while on my way to the truck.

[@sarafontanini7051]

@@haiidapuieb3332 that doesn't excuse her coming across like a self centered asshole who can't understand that people can have more than one friend

[@hinasakukimi]

i don't think they fucked up. chloe's major flaw is her abandonment issues which lead her to become controlling.

[@bebopblue]

“There’s something so relatable about Chloe” I don’t think that’s anything to be proud of

[@lastmanstanding7155]

Uh oh

[@darklord884]

To quote Gorilla Grod from Injustice 2: "There were three errors in that statement."

[@xsoultillerx]

i always felt that the relatable part about her is that everyone either has a friend or knows someone in their friendgroup like chloe. and if you don't then i'm afraid i have some bad news for you...

[@darklord884]

@@xsoultillerx Not everyone luckily. At last not one exactly like Chloe. Parts of her can be found mostly anywhere unfortunately, be it the ridiculous jealousy, the idiotically rebel attitude, the selfish, abusive nature, etc. You'd need to be a huge douchebag to completely emulate her and luckily not many friend groups tolerate this stuff. I had encounters with people vaguely similar but no one on the level of our glorious gal yet fortunately.

[@Gooberwares]

My friend said this and I’m like wtf…

[@danielkells6021]

IMO, The only character who wasn't an asshole in Life is Strange is Kate, and that's kinda bad

[@amirgarcia547]

Max isn’t too bad either, but that’s mainly ‘cause she’s a plank of wood.

[@rat-dog7357]

@@amirgarcia547 she actually does have the potential to be a shitty person depending on how you play

[@smirglepapier531]

Warren wasn't thaaat bad?

[@danielkells6021]

@@smirglepapier531 He's not that bad, but I definitely get "nice guy" vibes from him

[@smirglepapier531]

@@danielkells6021 eh, I always assumed that he was this overconfident cringy kid but I kinda see what you mean with nice guy vibes.

[@alexanderleonardi3625]

people like chloe? seriously, max deserves better than her. plenty of other girls in arcadia bay who *arent* abusive

[@Gooberwares]

Rose or in some cases rainbow colored glasses all the red flags just look colorful and fun

[@themindelectricdemo4]

@@Gooberwares “you know it’s funny, when you look at someone through rose coloured glasses, all the red flags just look like flags” - Wanda

[@Lilothestitch]

Chloe is not abusive. She loves and cares about Max.

[@samuraitadpole5459]

@@Lilothestitch she’s not violent abusive, but she is manipulative af

[@Gooberwares]

@@Lilothestitch as long as max does what she says

[@Dr_Smash]

Basically - Biases are fine to have, but as a writer it is important to objectively survey your characters' actions and values to attain the view you want viewers/readers/players to have of them.

[@darklord884]

It's fine if you like one of your characters and want to make them the hero and make them succeed. But you need to put in the effort to make that both believable and positive in your audience's eyes. Otherwise, it seems like you're writing about a jerk in godmode because the DM likes them.

[@bridgettelair370]

A lot of people defend Chloe solely because of her tragic backstory, but there's a fine line between making a character sympathetic and having a character beg for the audience's sympathy. They don't use her background right at all because she uses it as a crutch and an excuse. She's supposed to be a friend but it's almost always about her, she never questions herself until the last 20 minutes of the game (even then she only calls herself selfish twice while giving Max all the responsibility of this decision which will result in people dying). There are only so many "woe is me" comments until sympathy becomes disdain and your character becomes one-note. It would've been way more tolerable if the game was at least somewhat self-aware about it, but you really are being told that we should like Chloe if not love her.

[@maxdejong5259]

"There's a difference between having a sympathetic backstory and actually being sympathetic." - Linkara, History of Power Rangers

[@sarafontanini7051]

@@maxdejong5259 i was actually gonna comment this exact quote

[@jacobfoxfires9647]

Actually I felt the same with ROM 2064. The sort of prequel game to Va-11 hall-a. Which was a game I loved. But seeing ROM I instantly saw the quality difference. And the big one came from this cat girl at a dance club. Was looking for someone and just asking if they are or know this person, she goes on this long ass tirade about racism and became a huge asshole to you. People say she was realistic but I never saw this and just made the character out like a giant asshole. Even if they play the sympathy card about her I still didn’t give a crap. Soured the experience and just tells me they learned how to write better later on with Va-11 hall-a.

[@Quandry1]

It's made even worse with Chloe than that. Because if you really pay attention. You figure out that Chloe actually made much of that tragic backstory for herself. She creates most of the bad situations she ends up in. They aren't something pushed on her or she happens to fall into. She outright creates them and makes them happen by the Selfish bullheadedness she puts into everything. The Death of her dad is perhaps the only thing that I can't remember her directly having a hand in causing the situation. But that just may be me missing some small detail in the way we were told about it or something. The whole "I'm disabled now because the past was changed" thing from the butterfly effect had no impact for me so I honestly might have missed something in there. i was personally already fed up with chloe at that point.

[@Lilothestitch]

I bet the people that hated on Chloe hated on her father William and acted like she deserved to lose her father.

[@adeel-eh7xq]

I never understood why we never had much of a backstory for Max. What was her life outside Arcadia bay like for example? She came back all timid and shy so we can imagine it wasn't wonderful. But there was little context.

[@Melmeltheclown]

I got her having a good life judging by how close she seemed to both her parents

[@adeel-eh7xq]

@@Melmeltheclown Yep, me too. I also got that maybe she didn't fit in much where she lived after leaving the Bay because she came back with less confidence.

[@FumblsTheSniper]

From what I remember, she went to very small private schools and pretty much just took pictures by herself. This is why Max is such a genuinely “true good” character who is so easily manipulated by petty evil like Chloe.

[@silverscorpio24]

Flawed characters grow and develop. Terrible characters start and end being jackasses.

[@fanieljairtonjairton4234]

They don't even necessarily need to change but at least the history has to acknowledge their faults

[@SOBEKCrocodileGod]

I wouldn’t say that. Micah Bell from Red Dead 2 is just a terrible person throughout, but he’s still well written

[@jluck1399]

@@SOBEKCrocodileGod Facts!

[@darksquigglyboy]

Jackass characters through an through can work, in fact when they do work properly they end up being some of my favorites, but theres a difference between being a jackass and being a terrible character. I want Dante from Devil May Cry 3 and not Chloe from Life is Strange or Young Xehanort from the latter half of the KH Franchise.

[@joshgroban5291]

I gotta disagree, many villains are great but don't change. Chloe is bad because she is unlikeable yet the story wants her to be likeable. If she was the games villain she would be a lot more popular and liked.

[@brigidoherty]

i sacrificed chloe EASILY. max was just gonna have to keep saving her and i honestly dont think chloe ever truly loved max the way everyone makes it seems like she does. max was simply a rebound from rachel. people just romanticize/sexualize lesbians too much and want chloe and max together so bad.

[@amirgarcia547]

I’ll admit, even if I still have a soft spot for Life is Strange, since I quite like its atmosphere, cringey charm and interesting time travel mechanics…the handling of Chloe’s character isn’t exactly the best. Like you said, I can get what they were trying to do with her, but there’s one big problem with this: Chloe *never* changes. The thing with flawed characters is that they either eventually develop into a better person, much like Cloud Strife, or eventually get their comeuppance, like Brand Armstrong. Or both in the case of Joel from TLOU. However, Chloe never does either of, outside of a optional choice near the end which (at least to my knowledge) isn’t even canon. Which overall just leaves you with an unlikable, half-baked character that the game expects you to care about. JoshScorcher also talked about Chloe in his Top Ten Hated Character We’re Supposed to Like list, and how she would’ve actually worked a lot better as an antagonist. And that I actually agree with! Have her and Max start out as friends, but over time Chloe’s demands become more unreasonable and taxing on Max, and it eventually comes to a boiling point where Max refuses to help her any longer. This then causes Chloe to become ballistic, and she becomes an antagonist who tries to sabotage Max’s life. But instead we basically get…well, none of that, and Max instead just puts up with Chloe’s abuse for practically no reason. Oy vey… And when Before the Storm actually had the chance to improve on Chloe’s character and make her more tolerable…well, as we saw, it clearly saw none of that. Like I said though, I still enjoy Life is Strange despite its flaws, since there are aspects about it that just appeal to me on a person level. And hopefully the writers have at least learned a thing or two from the previous three games, and improve upon their previous flaws in True Colors. Especially since it not only has the most interesting premise, but it apparently won’t be an episodic like with the previous games. So what we see is basically what we’ll get.

[@LevattWolfheart]

Chloe is abusive. It would be a good lesson for teenagers (it is a shitty teen drama after all) to recognize when a person is abusing you and how to escape an abusive relationship. Also I'm sorry for anyone who brings up her step dad as being abusive. Stealing a gun, acting incredibly aggressive and screaming at an adult, at an age as close to adulthood as she was, being slapped is the least she deserved. Hell if he smacked her around with a belt for a bit after that I would have grabbed pop-corn and cheered him on.

[@Birthday888]

@@LevattWolfheart The problem with David in the slap scene is that it was born out of his anger, and he did so emotionally and impulsively, before immediately justifying it as "Chloe asking for it". It's definitely abusive, but the fact that this action relies on your actions to trigger it and that his anger is definitely founded in actual things Chloe is responsible for means that it really only made me dislike Chloe more. She goes from victim to perpretrator. This is especially poignant since David in both the original game and in the prequel doesn't seem to want to keep fighting with Chloe, and has even tried to reach out to her. On the other hand, Chloe seems to be determined not to change into someone better or even become slightly more mature.

[@LevattWolfheart]

@@Birthday888 there is nothing wrong with anger in that situation and being angry alone doesn't translate into abuse, context does. If he came home and smacked her around for normal teenage attitude that's one thing, if he slapped a child for an honest accident that would be another. Chloe is an older teenager willingly committing crimes that put her and others lives in real danger (which does cause death without Max's supernatural intervention. She would be tried as an adult for these crimes and thrown in prison. David's anger is justified because these adult actions have horrible consequences, and him trying to justify his reaction (and his multiple attempts to reconcile before and after) after the fact shows that he doesn't want to do this. Chloe is 100% the abuser here, emotionally manipulating and engaging relentless abuse to goad a justified response from someone she hates so she can hang them on a cross for the actions she forced.

[@Birthday888]

@@LevattWolfheart I'm not saying David's anger isn't justified, it totally is. The problem is that he impulsively and reflexively escalated to violence due to a lack of self control, before turning the blame onto Chloe. It clearly shows that David has the capacity to be abusive. That doesn't mean he's currently is abusing Chloe, just that he potentially could.

[@LevattWolfheart]

@@Birthday888 anybody could. What I was responding to was the idea that he was abusive, because he was angry. Also as far as a lack of self control let's review what actually happened. She stole his gun! Bad enough without adding that she stole his service weapon as well. If she commits a crime with this (which she does) his life is over. If his bosses found out his service weapon was missing he would, at the very least, lose his license to operate as a security guard. His livelihood is destroyed, not to mention being criminally and civilly liable for his service weapon being in the hands of a minor in his care. With that backdrop she is also blatantly smoking weed as a minor and mocking, insulting and gaslighting while making aggressive gestures and posturing. In further backdrop this girl has done this countless times before despite his best efforts to be a fair step father. In addition he was in the military and works as a security guard. He is trained to respond physically to lesser provocation to maintain security. He could maintain control, its true, but only if he had monk like zen, not a case of a person lacking in self control. Abuse anyone enough, take actions that could end their livelihood, are incredibly self destructive, and could potentially result in death of innocents or herself, then aggressively get in their face while screaming at them. Yeah.... I'd bet 90% of people would fail the self-control test in that context. And he STILL feels bad about it! David is too kind hearted if anything.

[@vla1ne]

Honestly, her stepdad isn't even bad, he's paranoid, but the game itself shows that he has ample reason to be paranoid, and is damn sure right more often than not.

[@Lilothestitch]

Yes he was bad. He was abusive to her!

[@vla1ne]

@@Lilothestitch by what metric? There is a massive diffeeence between abuse and discipline. If your kid is comfortable enough walking up to your face screaming "fuk you" after stealing your gun, then it is not abuse in my book to slap them in the face. I could see if he started punching her or something, but a slap, does not abuse make.

[@lukebytes5366]

@@vla1ne it's always about the portrayal. An unwarranted slap can be abuse but not in this situation, where a weapon is missing and your daughter potentially has it.

[@ddjsoyenby]

while frank could go too far, and it's understandable why chloe h@t3d him, he did genuinely care and he realized bad sh1t was happening.

[@QueenSydon]

@@lukebytes5366 Not just 'potentially'. That blue haired thing shot a man and his dog, and herself. A slap was going easy on her.

[@angelic_writer]

I really thought the option of choosing Chloe over a friend, whose real down on her luck that could eventually lead to her impending doom, was so ridiculous. It should be common sense to go and comfort your real depressed friend than to practically ditch them. Also, I noticed Rooftop Run playing in the background and I am such a fan.

[@Quandry1]

If Chloe was a real friend. She could have waited a few minutes for them to talk. And even have wanted to go and help out this other girl with her own problems and experiences. But thta's not chloe. the only consideration for anybody else we get from Chloe is a emotional manipulation of a plot device pulled out of nowhere at the last minute right before we make the choice of saving her or saving the town.

[@dustymuffincop]

What's messed up is that Max will be a complete bitch about Kate if you refuse to take the call. She says "And to be honest, I don't like Kate being so needy toward me. Even though I keep acting like I'm her spiritual bodyguard." Max knows her friend is being bullied, so saying she's needy for wanting to talk to a friend is messed up. At least she admits she sucks for her decision.

[@4569packers]

I will never stop laughing at Travis reaction when it's revealed that Jeane lived in a crappy apartment

[@lowhp_comic]

Even after learning about how she was sexually assaulted and tortured and abused, but it's the condition of the apartment that gets to him 😂

[@fuckingking6796]

@@lowhp_comic 🤣🤣🤣

[@Underworlder5]

@@lowhp_comic one is more relatable than the other

[@Jacob_G9]

Unintentional Though it May be, Chloe dying is a really good Example of A toxic Relationship ending. At first, It's hellish, It feels like your fault and it feels like a giant mistake, but as time goes on and you get the right help, you end up enjoying a far better life. Max loses Chloe, and to her, it may be horrible in the moment, but think about what it'll be like for her later, she doesn't have the guilt of the bay's destruction, she knows a lot more and can help out other people, and she can get into a new friendship, my bet, ending up with Kate, Preventing her from Ending her own life or even attempting it. But what if she let's Chloe live? Well, it's not going to be good, many people die and lose their homes, which will have a guilt complex to Max, Her relationship with Chloe is going to hang in only because of their choice, which will cause it to strain and Break, and There may be even worse fates should they keep on living, who said the hurricane would be the only time fate tries to get back at them?

[@SleepyMook]

I still hail Travis as one of my all time favorite protagonists. A crude and terrible man who has a sense of honor and humanity along with humor.

[@jacobtheorangeyoshi8710]

I think Chloe is way worse than Alex because at the very least Alex gets called out for something, that’s really a new low when ALEX from Yiik is technically more redeemable (not by a wide margin, Alex is still the worst in many aspects) than the love interest of the main character that you’re supposed to like. I’m glad Life Is Strange is being criticized for how terribly it portrays a “cute lesbian relationship” when really it’s one of the most toxic relationships I’ve seen in fiction.

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

Alex is still a dipshit character. Doing a 180 at the VERY END is still bad writing.

[@jacobtheorangeyoshi8710]

@@ChiefMedicPururu I don’t think you read my comment I still said he’s the worst, I’m saying at the very least he’s called out for his stupidity compared to Chloe

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

@@jacobtheorangeyoshi8710 I know.

[@SOBEKCrocodileGod]

Alex gets called out for not being the center of the universe….but then the game reveals that everything in the world literally does revolve around him

[@jacobtheorangeyoshi8710]

@Brandon Andres the entirety of Yiik was unbearable monologues that never end at least Life Is Strange keeps the cringe dialogue to a minimum of a sentence.

[@kentalacrucia]

Anyone who likes Chloe and relates to her is a person who never grew up past high school with MASSIVE red flags

[@tuopsy]

i watched this middle aged looking women defend her against that “chloe is the worst best friend” video and i could *tell* that she relates to her. 🤦‍♀️ especially with the condescending way they responded to the video and how they appeared to take it personally. they also literally gave no counter arguments and just said “this video was so negative! chloe is the best friend you could ever ask for.” 🙄

[@WittingStudios]

God I know this mod Discord that is a lesibin. (Which she rubs in your face by the way. ) loves Life is Strange. She is as likable as mosquitoes.

[@Lilothestitch]

Fuck you dude! There’s nothing wrong with liking Chloe!

[@MelindaColden]

my ex gf loved chloe... she was quite immature

[@vampirefnaf934]

dont relate to her but I like her in before the storm

[@vysethegallant638]

This video reminds me a lot of the game "Izuna: Legend of the Unemployed Ninja", about a young ninja named Izuna who is upset about her family retiring to a remote village she finds backwater and boring. She is portrayed as being selfish, greedy, spoiled, entitled, and typically gets whatever she wants. When she doesn't, she's prone to throwing fits or playing with peoples' emotions in order to get her way. In fact, it was her greed and ignorance that kickstarted the plot of the game, with her stealing a special jewel that was meant to represent a pact between the village and the six gods who protected it, which led to the gods warping the personalities of all of the villagers as well as her family. Instead of realizing the mistake she made, she places the blame solely on the gods themselves and decides to take revenge on them only for the sake of her father and sister (brother and villagers, she couldn't care less). As Izuna confronts each of the gods, they each tap into a facet of her negative behavior, from her greed to her lack of empathy, to indirectly help her grow as a person. They also each give her an orb that only helps some of the people at a time (without giving away who they will specifically help) as a means to push her into interacting with the other villagers and learning more about them. This, in turn, leads her to developing social bonds with people she otherwise wouldn't never given the light of day, and becoming personally invested in their lives and their community. The story takes advantage of this by having her cure the only two characters she originally cared about halfway through the game. Though she could've just as easily dipped out at that point, she instead personally decides to seek out the eldest of the six gods and restore the pact that she broke, taking her first steps into a new chapter of her not-so-normal life. Though she still had a bit of an ego in the end (and continued to comedically abuse her brother), her journey made her a better and more empathetic character in the end, and she began to fully embrace her new life with a newfound appreciation for it that she hadn't seen before. It's a damn fine example of how a game can start with an unlikeable character and end with a very memorable and empathetic one. Hell, Izuna's still one of my favorite video game characters to date! There was even a sequel, "Izuna 2: Return of the Unemployed Ninja", that picked up right where the first game left off, keeping her new personality and life in tact while continuing to build on it even further with a new adventure. They're damn fine games, and I highly recommend anyone to give them a try. Through roms or emulation, of course, because they're stupid expensive nowadays!

[@Raharu95]

For what system where those games?

[@vysethegallant638]

@@Raharu95 Nintendo DS

[@tikalthewhimsicott2736]

I think I played this game before on one of those R4 flash carts

[@LoDDestroyer]

Just seconding this! They have their share of, uh, questionable quirks (filling the photobook in the sequel is a completionist's hell I'd wish on nobody) but they're a fun romp with a jerk protagonist who gradually learns how to be less awful.

[@keybladeaprentice]

tbf, another factor that ties into Travis being more likable than Chloe is performance....the acting on Chloe's part ain't great whereas Travis's voice actor puts on a performance that is a deranged and unhinged killer, but also reminds u of the fact that ur playing as a giant dork. With that last tidbit being what we find endearing

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

Yeah. Burch just go through the motions and just do as the script says. Atkin Downes is clearly enjoying his time. And unlike Chloe/Burch, who sounds almost always like a bitch (blue Chloe, I mean), Travis/Robin sounds snarky when he wants to be an ass, but a deeper voice if he's being serious.

[@keybladeaprentice]

@@ChiefMedicPururu oh I love Robin Atkin Downes as Travis. Not to sell him short on his other performances (especially his most recent performance as Emperor Nefarious in Ratchet and Clank Rift Apart where he manages to be threatening with hints of comedy sprinkled here and there. I truly think he's an underrated voice actor), I do think his role as Travis is one of his best.

[@ProxyRaiden]

@@keybladeaprentice, never forget that Robin Atkin Downes was the man that gave us one of the best, if not THE best, videogame quote ever... THEY PLAYED US LIKE A DAMN FIDDLE!!!!!!

[@BlazeHeartPanther]

Robert Atkin Downs is a fantastic voice actor

[@Underworlder5]

@@keybladeaprentice i know him mostly as medic from team fortress 2

[@waffleauflauf4213]

I feel like if Life is Strange ran with the more meta approach of "Chloe doesn't change because she's not even supposed to be alive right now. She was supposed to die in the first scene. There's no character development or arc for her because she's not even supporting to be here- she's stuck as the person she died as" it would be much better and would do a better job leading into the final decision. Where instead of Max constantly saving her seeming redundant, only to be revealed at the last moment as the universe trying to kill her despite Max's efforts, there'd be more buildup throughout the game and more signs that, as much as Max loved her and wanted her alive, her first decision to save her was a mistake, and show her realizing and accepting that over the course of the chapters as she becomes more independent and okay with the idea of moving forward, with her powers being more of a metaphor of her refusal to leave the past behind and harming herself because of it.

[@tasya_nabila]

11:39 "I'm sick of you losers dragging Chloe down" Man, David said that to defend Chloe and yet that girl is blind to realized that

[@NeomDrac]

I can't like a character who is abusive to their friends and uses them. I will never play Life is Strange.

[@sharzinlalebazri5673]

I remember I unironically enjoyed this dumpster fire of a game back when I was a stupid, film school hipster... god I hate that part of my life even more than my early childhood.

[@MetallicaRules]

I said this to another person earlier, but that doesn't really surprise me. What you and some others have said validates my idea that, since the game's fandom is mostly young teenagers, that it would appeal to them less and less as they got older, matured, and saw more of the world.

[@Saltedroastedcaramel]

@@MetallicaRules Yeah I was like just getting into college when this game came out. A lot of stuff happened since then.

[@grizzlymelon8376]

I enjoyed it back then too, as a guilty pleasure tho. Now, not even as that.

[@cuppoboba9400]

You guys might hate me for this but I admit, the writing is.. Very bad heh But even I still enjoy the game to this day, even holds me to my heart to find out I'm bisexual

[@Saltedroastedcaramel]

@@cuppoboba9400 No one is going to hate you for still liking the game

[@fergiepunk]

There's one important bit of information left out about Travis and Jeane's relationship. It's not just that they are step siblings. Jeane was also Travis's childhood love interest. They were in a romantic relationship, Travis had no idea she was his step sister. But Jeane knew, she hated Travis because he got a normal life with his father while Jeane was abused by their father. There's actually a portrait of Jeane in Travis's apartment (which is ripped up in the second game). So this is what causes Travis to blackout. The love of his life kills his parents in front of him. Their whole relationship was a ploy for Jeane to get her revenge. It's also arguably why Travis has a problem killing woman in the game, because subconsciously he sees Jeane in these women, a person he loved. But he has to overcome that attachment to her in order to get the revenge that Silvia planned out for him. It's what makes the end rather bittersweet. He gets his revenge but now he knows why she did what she did.

[@misterzygarde6431]

I’ve seen Joshscorcher suggest that Chloe could’ve worked better as an antagonist and that staying with her would’ve been the bad ending. Personally while I like his idea, if we had to make Chloe a character to like I would have made Chloe be forced to I don’t know… ACTUALLY DEVELOP and realize how much of a shithead she’s been especially if we had gotten a part in the story where Max had it up to Chloe’s BS.

[@darklord884]

That could have worked. Start Chloe out with "Oh cool, time powers. Let me abuse them!" and there could have been a moment where you tell her off, maybe several moments and if you did it enough times, she would have realised how horrible she had become and would have changed her attitude as well as develop a deeper respect for Max for the kind of person she is and what she was trying to do. That would have also required Max to not be the most boring protagonist of her time, but you get what I mean.

[@coolman229]

@@thecod2345 And this could have played really well into the choice based mechanics. That depending on how you play things would play out differently. Side with Chloe constantly and Max ends up being her codependent accomplice and punching bag. Go against Chloe aggressively and she completely loses it and goes nuts. Go against Chloe but try to help her and she might get some development. Those are just some ideas off the top of my head that would have made choices worth something.

[@sarafontanini7051]

hell, givethe player more chances to tell off chloe for her actions and have her learn some humility

[@darklord884]

@@thecod2345 Either that or maybe have the two friends working together in the end to save the town. Having it all be a 'kill Chloe or kill town' choice in the end is far too restrictive, but with proper buildup and planning, it could have been something magnificent. Especially because Chloe's personality is not all horrible. She is confident, tough and able to speak her mind even when the whole world is against her. Those aren't bad traits. It's just that she has some incredible abandonment issues coupled with some arrogant, narcissistic tendencies with the way she uses Max. If the game was about Chloe overcoming her trauma that she used to emotionally blackmail Max, that could have been great too. Just imagine, at the start of the game Chloe could have been all "Oh hi best friend! You came back! Now make your life all about me for the lost time you owe me!" but as the story goes, the player would have the choices to confront Chloe with her behaviour and tell her off when she's acting like a selfish brat and using Max. If the player does that, maybe the two get in a fight or something else happens and Chloe realises how horrible she has acted and comes to Max's rescue, hugging her friend and apologizing for taking out her anger from abandonement on Max all along. As others have stated this before, this would require ample buildup too and not just a binary choice at the end. In fact let's just remove the whole storm plot altogether. Jefferson could have been a great villain on his own, especially if they made him intelligent and have him figure out purely by clues that Max has time powers (kind of like Roswaal in Re:Zero, which would have been insanely cool if the small fuckups where the player or Max says things relating to her knowledge of the future or changing time were all retroactively given meaning as small hints for Jefferson that something is up, leading to him figuring out that Max either has some clairvoyant ability or can travel through time, though let's not make him pinpoint her exact ability, maybe he'd guess Max can see the future) and come after her because of that. That could have put Max in danger where Chloe could have come in to save her and apologize for being an ass before. But that's just my idea of things.

[@ddjsoyenby]

that may work.

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

42:46 I dunno if that was intentionnal but Chloe's picture being square-ish, rough and having no depth while Travis' is more rounded, looks more refined and three-dimensionnal, is a brilliant way to show the differences between the two, even without words,

[@astralaurora4165]

All I’ll say is Kate Marsh is the definition of deserved better.

[@torchlight1785]

The fact that Chloe got upset you would answer the phone call for Kate pissed me off. Especially since she was suicidal, but yeah Chloe was very unlikable in the game.

[@tonysonic456]

Well, I got my "Why Chloe sucks" part of the video. I'm happy. You know, you comparing Chloe to Travis reminded me of the scene where Travis tears Sylvia down after killing Alice Twilight. Like imagine if he met Chloe and saw all the terrible things she does and gets away with. He already gave Sylvia a piece of his mind. God knows he'd have something to say about Chloe. Edit: Wow, over 300 likes?! Guess my comment in "The Death of Dead Rising" video has just been dethroned.

[@cynicalcharclone5894]

I’d honestly love to see how that scene would’ve played out. After watching this video, I can’t think of a better character to slap Chloe back into reality other than Travis, especially how he is in No More Heroes 2.

[@tonysonic456]

@@cynicalcharclone5894 Here's how it might play out. It'll be loosely based off of his tangent in No More Heroes 2. Travis: Do you even see what you're doing? This is your best friend. Look at her! She's a living, breathing human being with thoughts and emotions! It doesn't matter if she has time travel powers or some shit. She's alive! You can't just take advantage of everyone you come across! Your actions will have consequences whether you like it or not! She's in pain because of you. Everyone you've ever manipulated and lied to is in pain because of you! THAT'S WHY YOUR A FILTHY BITCH THAT DOESN'T DESERVE PEOPLE LIKE MAX AND REALLY DESERVES TO BE ALONE AND MISERABLE FOR THE REST OF YOUR FUCKING LIFE!!!! Well, what do you all think? I'd love to hear your thoughts and maybe a response from Chloe.

[@cynicalcharclone5894]

@@tonysonic456 honestly couldn’t have written it better myself

[@tonysonic456]

@DZ - 10ZZ 679459 Meadowvale SS I like to think that that was Sylvia’s way of apologizing to Travis for everything she did.

[@knox7945]

Funny thing, Travis bang Sylvia after that boss fight after saying all of that.

[@commonsense5199]

Fun fact Ashly Burch was voice actress of Enid from OK KO Let’s Be Heroes(Enid even dress as Chole in Let’s Watch The Pilot). Enid has a relationship with Red Action, who also have time travel powers/device. Both jerk characters(Enid was lazy, Cynical, Snarky and Red-Action, hot-headed, irresponsible and she even bullied KO once) and have their own personal problems. Difference is Enid and Red action both have character development from their personal problems. Enid and Red Action’s relationship is far better and healthier than Max and Chloe. Really Wish Cartoon Network didn't cancel the Red Action's spinoff, Hue Troop

[@generalwashingtoad6516]

OK KO slapped so hard.

[@certifiednobody]

Honestly, if we were getting a spinoff, I think a much better one would be an animated series based on IJQ's RPG World comic, since they had that one episode were KO teamed up with Hero from it. Hue Troop doesn't sound like it'd be as interesting IMO

[@malestorm95]

Chloe is so bad an entire town gets destroyed by a tornado just to kill her

[@jkarma3356]

naw.

[@thomasraines1396]

It’s like God himself was conspiring for her to die.

[@tobiis-a-good-boy4960]

I used to enjoy playing LIS and the characters, but as I got older and spent my time playing other games something changed. When I played Before the Storm, something I was looking forward to, I couldn't stand Chloe. Yeah I pittied her, but she became insufferable to me. And looking back at it, I wonder how the fuck I even liked Chloe. I dare say Rachel encouraged the bad behavior of Chloe, and made her into the toxic person she is. It takes one bad apple to spoil a bunch as they say. Maybe it's because I've grown more mature, maybe it's because I've dealt with people like Chloe at one point that I cut my ties with them - but I no longer see Max and Chloe's relationship as a good thing. Chloe's emotionally abusive and controlling to Max, and people should realize that.

[@MetallicaRules]

I find your take interesting, and it's also not the first time I've heard someone say this. A large part of this game's fandom is young teenagers, so I've always wondered how, if at all, the views of this game would change as they got older, matured, and opened their eyes more to the world around them. You and some others validate what I've been thinking, that as the fanbase gets older, they'd drift away from the game and see it in a far less appealing light.

[@tobiis-a-good-boy4960]

@@MetallicaRules Well I'll be damned. Haven't seen your name since the Telltale forums! Nice to see a familiar face, er name :D

[@MetallicaRules]

@@tobiis-a-good-boy4960 Tobi, been too long. Sorry, YT did not notify me until just now. How you doing?

[@dextrokage9330]

True she is definitely reminiscent of that one bad friend who blames everyone but themselves for their shitty behavior

[@tobiis-a-good-boy4960]

@@MetallicaRules Oh shit, sorry, my notifications didn't notify me either lol And I'm good. This year has been eventful to say the least. Hope things going well for ya.

[@LatterDayPup]

Chloe is Tumblr personified.

[@CatsOfSpades]

Nah, Tumblr can at least leave me entertained lmao

[@TetsuRiken]

As E.R. made his title Life is Tumblr

[@BlastingBigLoads2]

Especially the "If I don't blane someone else it's my fault, fuck that" line

[@JPLangley_]

It would be more accurate to say Twitter. I will forever hate Tumblr for breaking their containment seal that kept their userbase isolated from the rest of the Internet.

[@tonypeppermint5329]

@@JPLangley_ Yeah.

[@ArcadeStriker]

"MY SISTER DIED RIGHT HERE!" "Chill out, we almost just died ourselves!" *cuts to MangaKamen holding Alex to whoop him* i died EDIT: sepiroth and the toad censor got me again

[@JohnMBlue1992]

(also sorry for paying more attention to your comment, is funny an cool) eh i dig your profile picture!

[@MrAuthor3DS]

Man, if only Alex's line was something as calm as that...

[@ArcadeStriker]

@@JohnMBlue1992 good ol Daytona USA

[@Nightband]

It's funny because Alex is totally in the right in that scene

[@nickelakon5369]

@@Nightband i agree. Alex is absolutely right in that scene.

[@ultimateagent25]

Kate Marsh was the only character I liked in Life Is Strange.

[@ddjsoyenby]

personally i liked max and kate, and jefferson is a great villan imo.

[@ultimateagent25]

@@ddjsoyenby Max has the personality of a wooden plank.

[@acedetective9542]

Also only liked her

[@unlikelyspecimen244]

I like Frank. He has a dog.

[@ddjsoyenby]

@@unlikelyspecimen244 and he rescued it.......sure he could be kind of a d1ck but it made sense.

[@mcbadrobotvoice8155]

Anyone else find it ironic that the same girl Whos ok with stealing from a handicap fund also ends up being handicapped in another timeline

[@TheAutistWhisperer]

I remember playing the first couple of episodes of Life is Strange and I realised how dull it was and how much the characters suck.

[@revi6482]

I played it in the episodic order when it was released and back than I really liked it. When I tried to replay it a view month ago though, I just couldn't handle Chloe and was actively acting against her, whenever possible. Of course her tragic backstory is the reason to act like she does, perhaps for a lot of other people. But it's not an EXCUSE for her behavior. Especially if she gets told she's being a bitch and is just like "Nah it's not my fault, because everything else would be too, and I can't have this!". I just wanted to choke her.

[@invadersickness]

Honestly halfway through this game I felt like I was witnessing a very manipulative and sort of abusive relationship between Chloe and Max. Especially when Chloe blames things on Max she couldn't control or something that happened because of Chloe's actions. So when it came to romance options. I was actually hoping Kate would become one. Since I felt like Kate and Warren were alot better friends than Chloe.

[@user-cr3db7cb8n]

You should check out in depth discussions about warren

[@Quandry1]

Kate really is much better and that could have made a very interesting story and direction that we clearly didn't get. And I didn't just feel. I was old enough and had certain experiences to know that Chloe was out and out one of the worst representations of a toxic and dangerous relationship out there. But any time I called it out when the first game came out. people would try to take my head off for calling it out. As viciously as they could because they couldn't understand that not representation is better than very bad representation.

[@jkarma3356]

naw she is not toxic.

[@tyrantking9000]

Here's a good way to make an asshole character become likeable: people calling them out on their bullshit. If Max calls Chloe out on her shit, and Chloe reflects on it (even slightly) she would be likable. A character I _love_ to hell and back, Kratos from the God of war series, is one of my favorite characters in games. What makes him amazing is because of the fact he can be considered as evil, but I love him because he has a reason on to be who he is, I could see anyone can go down his path, and I can kinda relate to him. _Everyone_ calls him out on his bullshit, he always regrets the shit he does, and (le gasp) he would do anything to wash away his past. Chloe on the other hand, she is just too egotistical to reflect on anything.

[@Abysslover91]

Heres another example A character named Luke from an rpg tales of the abyss hes the MC unlikable at first but he's called out alot shows signs of not being 100% an ass does something terrible and guess what the whole party gets on his case he starts too grow and mature realizing what he did but even then he doesn't just win back trust he has too earn it bye the end he becomes a great character bit through growth and redemption the game is an older game though 2005 good game sorry for the long reply lol

[@korsekil]

Yep, or as the video mentions, growth. If the characters start off unlikeable and don't change at all, they unsurprisingly remain unlikeable, and if the game FORCES you to enable their behavior it itself becomes unlikeable.

[@Abysslover91]

@@korsekil indeed your right

[@kankeydong2500]

Kratos wouldn't have doomed the entire greek civilization if the gods of olympus got off from their high horses, stopped acting like assholes and given him what he wanted in the first place.

[@juliarainemaglalang4656]

@@Abysslover91 Ohhhh is this from Tales of the Abyss? Yeah I watched that a looooong time ago but I remember as clear as day how fucking annoying he was at first lmao. A literal child. But man the relief I felt when he actually started maturing and realizing his mistakes I remember it so well haha.

[@OleanderRainbow]

No disrespect to anyone who does like Life Is Strange. However, I never got the love for it. To me, it comes across as a weird love child of Dawson's Creek and Degrassi. But if it was written by a stereotypical Tumblr user. If I wanted to watch drama, I'd try to find clips of 80s era Days Of Our Lives. Or I'd watch Soap. Soap being an 80s sitcom that was a satire of soap operas. And it was brilliant. And yes I know comparing a serious story to a satire is stupid. Trust me. However, I feel the comparison works given the drama theme. Also, at least Travis is funny. Sure, it's lowbrow humor but it's funny none the less.

[@MisteRRYouTuby]

Meh, if I wanted to watch kids/teens showing angst, I'll watch "You Can't Do That On Television."

[@Violent_Wolfen]

@@MisteRRYouTuby You gotta be my age to remember that.

[@MisteRRYouTuby]

@@Violent_Wolfen Or had recently remembered by watching “The Orange Years.”

[@ellendaniels8715]

NOT DAWSON’S CREEK😂

[@OleanderRainbow]

@@ellendaniels8715 Twas the best frame of reference I could think of aside from Degrassi in regards to teen drama TV.

[@Sasoubree]

Me at 15 playing LiS: yeah chloe is pretty cool Me at 19 revisiting the game: Jesus Christ that's a whole load of red flags that remind me of my toxic ex. Max get the hell outta there

[@ryanelliott71698]

The moment Chloe wanted to steal money from the handicapped fund to pay off her drug dealer was the moment I lost all sympathy for her.

[@JimmehRulez]

Life is an incredibly boring game. And strange.

[@WoeUponThee]

I think the game of life (the board game) is pretty fun

[@kyrohowe3156]

30:49 - Easy way to rid of problems

[@paulakroy2635]

Yeah but no more heroes is stranger

[@noblesseoblige319]

I mean... You aren't wrong

[@gab_v250]

@@WoeUponThee you think the videogame adaptation is as fun as the original board game?

[@cynicalcharclone5894]

I’m really glad that more people are tearing Life is Strange a new one. It is easily one of the worst stories I’ve ever experienced in a video game

[@duckfilms3662]

Why?

[@budgetbrick5124]

Don't forget it's soy boy sequel that had horrible political commentary

[@budgetbrick5124]

@@Mangakamen honestly they still never explain how does any get these powers the at all it's like the fourth person if you count the new game i get the air of mystery but when the character in the new game had it from birth it's time to explain how your world works

[@rexventura4603]

@@budgetbrick5124 If I had to guess it works like mutants from Xmen but it’d be nice if they made it clearer

[@kdash2657]

@@haiidapuieb3332 It's easily down there.

[@Lucario4thewin]

My biggest problem is Max. She only reacts. She isn't a character. She's a tool.

[@kevin4061]

You put In all these jojo references knowing that Max has time powers and that Chloe is an abusive/toxic friend and we would make a connection that Chloe is a main antagonist stand user, with max being killer queen in the bites the dust ark? THINK, KAMEN, THINK!

[@Lilothestitch]

Chloe is not abusive. She loved and cared about Max. If Chloe was abusive, Max would’ve had bruises on her.

[@kevin4061]

@@Lilothestitch do you believe in mental or psychological abuse? Getting uptight about Max taking a call from a friend is a pretty big red flag.

[@kingbash6466]

Something’s wrong when the literal child kidnapper/murderer isn’t as unlikable as one of your main characters.

[@aquamarina5216]

Thank you for your perspective, I literally waited for years for the people to start to call Chloe out for her BS. Part of the reason why I hate Chole with burning passion is the fact that I was in her exact situation, my father died, somebody who I thought of as my best friend since childhood ditched me, and I had an abusive stepfather (although I find David to be more misguided than anything, but some of his actions are straight-up awful and I can not defend them with clear consense), so I'm so so sorry to hear that you had a similar experience, a situation like this is awful, I know this first hand, but it doesn't give you a free pass to become such trash of a person like Chloe. Also, let me say this trope "it's okay that they do bad things, they have problems, it's natural that they act out", needs to die, and I do think it is straight-up harmful to people like me and so many others because it further paints us as sorta a "walking timebombs" rather than normal human beings who justs tries to navigate their lives. Either way, it's a very good video, keep it up :)

[@jkarma3356]

liar.

[@axlrose5082]

@@jkarma3356 The situation she went through isn't as uncommon as you may think it is lol

[@aquamarina5216]

@@jkarma3356 Boy, do I wish this would be just a lie, not a situation I had to live through. Kid, you honestly have no idea, how nice it would be if it wasn't my reality, my dad was alive and well, I'd still had contact with my childhood best friend, and my awful stepfather wouldn't exist. Don't assume things about people if you don't know the first thing about what they went through.

[@aquamarina5216]

@@axlrose5082 Thank you

[@jkarma3356]

@@aquamarina5216 yawn

[@Sercil00]

I got to admit, when I first played the game, I liked Chloe. Mostly because the way she looked was just "my type" at the time. Pretty ashamed to admit that. Also, if you constantly side with her, like I did, she acts grateful, so you don't realize that she takes your support for granted. But even I picked the ending where you sacrifice her. What gives me the right to sentence an entire town and countless of its inhabitants to death, just to spare Chloe the consequences of her own actions? Also, I assumed that the double moon and the hurricane were a DIRE warning sign that altering Chloe's fate was completely destroying the timeline. I thought that the universe needed Chloe to die, and if it didn't happen in the bathroom, it would happen in her own room, in the scrapyard, on the train tracks, or somewhere else. Maybe the hurricane was even the universe's "nuclear option" to get rid of Chloe, who had become an anomaly. And if that didn't work, maybe an asteroid would be next. Besides, saving Chloe wouldn't even do her any favors. She's homeless now, she lost her mother too, her town is wiped off the earth, and she's left to wonder if her life was worth more than anyone else's. She has a truck, Max, and maybe the handicapped fund she stole. You really think she's going to be alright?

[@Tailfeathers11]

This. This. This There’s also the fact that the whole reason that Chloe so even there is because Max saved her. If Max saves her, who’s to say Max won’t need to continue saving her? We’ve seen how reckless and impulsive Chloe is, she’ll likely end up in multiple more deadly situations in which Max has to fix her mess.

[@megasoniczxx]

If No More Heroes treats women poorly then i'd hate to see a game that actually does treat them poorly lol. Jokes aside though, i've never played Life is Strange (not really interested in interactive novel type games) but I feel like one way they could've made Chloe better is for her to have some lasting consequences to her actions since it just sounds like she get's to have her cake and eat it too especially due to how Max can time travel. Then again, I guess that might be the point of the game that these characters never learn due to essentially having infinite chances but I feel like it would've been a better direction to go down.

[@jacobfoxfires9647]

Lol. Clearly the game is sexist since Travis doesn’t want to behead women just as much as the guys. Just typing that got me laughing a bit. Yeah seems like consequences isn’t that important with LiS, mostly because of their faux Telltale system. Just ends the same way.

[@TrueUnderDawgGaming]

Basically a flawless video! I guess I am strange though, because I don't think being abused by your father excuses becoming a mass-murdering serial killer for hire. Likewise, why not take your brother with you or something? She just left Travis there to suffer, but luckily he's got the mental fortitude of a diamond wrapped in adamantium.

[@cherrycola1144]

Under Dawg! Didn’t expect to see you here. Also didn’t know you were a Suda51 fan - nice!

[@Underworlder5]

my guess for that is that being sexually abused by your stepfather does a number on your sanity. also, considering travis wanted to avenge his father, he likely never knew how terrible he was until jeane told him, so no reason to bring him along, especially if she is too poor to take care of herself

[@TrueUnderDawgGaming]

@@Underworlder5 I read your points, but if an assassin murdered my family and their excuse was, "My dad was horrible" I would not find that satisfactory as an excuse.

[@Underworlder5]

@@TrueUnderDawgGaming i understand that, i am just trying to empathize with her, and know why she does what she does. a past like that could have broken anyone. it does not excuse her actions, but at least we can understand the reason behind them. the man who was supposed to take care of her in a vulnerable moment of her life instead used her as his personal plaything

[@Seyanoo]

@@TrueUnderDawgGaming I mean I don’t know if you ever been abuse but that shit does numbers on your sanity.

[@3ds_fellgod-myhopewillneve617]

Between any game by David Cage, The Last of Us Part 2, and this Tumblr dumpster fire getting awards for having writing that is cringe-inducing and incompetent at best and downright disgusting at worst, I can no longer take game awards seriously. How this game managed to become a hit to the point of getting a third game this year is beyond my understanding.

[@sergioochoa913]

It's a proof that god forgot about us

[@rashan141]

It's literally only because 'muh gays'. I'd bet my LIFE on it that, had these games not had LGBT inside, they'd have crashed and burned long ago. These games are NOT good and yet people harp on about liking Chloe. And I can easily guess _why_ if only because it's the ONLY 'different' thing about LiS.

[@badasscrusader]

@@rashan141 also other political commentary but mostly that yes

[@iliaskontochristos5757]

LiS1 sucked but 2 had the potential to be good, if only they weren't busy shoving down your throat that orange man is indeed bad(i mean the wall played part in the story) and society bad outcast good

[@mannyoftheeast3318]

@@rashan141 You do realize that Ellie was gay in the first game? lol

[@naru-bunny]

Brah, sometimes I feel like the ONLY person who freakin' HATES Chloe. I let her die SO FAST, the ending was a freakin' no brainer for me. lmao Kate & Victoria were great, loved those two.

[@redx5605]

I’m gonna be honest if LiS had a Kate Marsh romance opinion, it’d probably highlight how shitty Chloe is I mean seriously KM’s friendship alone is stronger than Chloe’s whole “relationship” with Max but that’s just my opinion and I defiantly wanna hear others^^

[@joshuaalmager1305]

True I felt like Kate could have helped with the whole situation but the game chose someone who didnt experience it (what I’m trying to say is having Kate brought up in the story more would have brought so much more emotion to the story.

[@redx5605]

@@joshuaalmager1305 I agree such a missed opportunity

[@blakebridges8989]

Edgy teens: Chloe is so relatable because she’s wounded and therefore has an excuse to be an absolute shit human being. Just like me.

[@BuzzabeelYT]

imo Nathan was the “terrible person done right” in LiS, especially with context for his actions. He really got the shortest end of the stick.

[@jkarma3356]

no he is just awful.

[@ok.4720]

@@jkarma3356 He is awful but atleast he has good writing unlike chloe, stop being a chloe simp and replying to everyone who doesn't like her, she's trash

[@swapertxking]

considering the people who usually praise chloe are themselves just as toxic as her... well its easy to see the connection... i could not finish Life is Strange solely because of Chloe being such a toxic person.

[@dubiousdeliquite6641]

Honestly for me the most annoying part of life is strange is how hypocritical it is. When chloe does drugs, plays with guns, and acts like a greedy shithead max acts like shes being cool and sticking it to the man, but when she looks at frank, david, or the principal doing the same things she calls them creeps and douchebags And it just has weird morals all around. They act like putting surveillance cameras on school grounds is some sort of violation of human rights when it would solve literally every problem that the school has when it comes to frats, murders, and druggies

[@dubiousdeliquite6641]

The other thing is that they act like cripple chloe in any way validating blue chloe as a character. Having 5 years worth of completely different memories makes them entirely different people, one’s actions in no way speak to the other’s character

[@dubiousdeliquite6641]

Also no matter how much you want to help a friend out that should never come at the cost of your own health. If you have someone like chloe who refuses to change and is constantly trying to twist your arm, ESPECIALLY if you are someone like max who is clearly self concious in a lot of ways, then that relationship is just bound to be toxic. People who like chloe act like just because someone is hurt you should baby them and excuse all they do, but in reality there is simply a point where they are leeching off of you and making you unhappy with yourself, and you just have to cut them out of your life

[@gaming1zanagi-1999]

In other word Chloe thinks everything is about her and being way too egoistical. Like I get that we can be egoistical at times cause at some point we do have to care for ourselves but even that we still have our own limits while Chloe don't have one. Like I get she had BPD but that still no excuse for her being a jackass and unsympathetic sociopath.

[@gaming1zanagi-1999]

@@dubiousdeliquite6641 exactly. Besides if Chloe is indeed Max's bestie she would've understand Max's struggles instead of guilt trip her.

[@gaming1zanagi-1999]

@@chloe-stephlis6281 she is not trying yet she still does nevertheless. The only time we see her realises her mistake is right at the end.

[@niathebrave7729]

My favorites hateful character is Felix from fire emblem three houses and Chole from miraculous ladybug before they ruined her.

[@GodOfOrphans]

Yeah with Bee Chloe it's like they had a redemption arc planned and set up but gave up partway through, it's weird.

[@niathebrave7729]

@@GodOfOrphans They creator is literally fighting people on Twitter for disagree with his decision

[@alinastanescu4430]

I feel like Chloe from Miraculous Ladybug is based by a person that bullied/was mean to the creator of the show in highschool(I have no proof, it's just speculation) wich would make sense since the creator ruined her redemption arc and is still arguing about it on Twitter

[@kellyrosa2851]

Wasn't it because different people were working on the show when they planned out Chloes character? And once Thomas came back he scrapped all of that? Regardless that guy is a man child...

[@darlingsxoxoxo2966]

I feel like she could be better by self awareness, by having a long look at herself and like realising that she has traumatised and hurt Marinette later on in the meantime and genuinely feeling remorse over it and working to be a better person and to let people scold her, and change her attitude. While Lila indulges in more unhealthy behaviour.

[@WillOfMyD]

Well I like LIS, but yeah, Chloe is not a redeemable character.

[@user-cr3db7cb8n]

She is lol play the ending

[@WillOfMyD]

@@user-cr3db7cb8n 1) I never played the game, I looked at a gameplay. 2) You do realize this video says the contrary right?

[@Gooberwares]

The big gay is the only reason people spare Chloe. She doesn’t actively look for actual help she just clings to anyone who gives her escapism and attention. Hell Rachel hates her adoptive family cuz they separated her from her toxic mother that rather party than love her daughter

[@WillOfMyD]

@@Gooberwares So let me get this straight; people are ok with her shitty ass character, because she's a lesbian? That's bullshit!

[@shadowknight19100]

@@WillOfMyD that’s apparently the world we live in

[@ianduarte1992]

"Shit i shot myself" -The one that must control the guns

[@pilotmanpaul]

"It's men that needs to be controlled." *Literally performs multiple muzzle flashes, no trigger discipline and shooting herself, reckless use of a dangerous weapon and manslaughter with a firearm*

[@scavengersix2161]

"There's something so relatable about Chloe - and I think that's why a lot of people love her - is because we all have something in us or something about her that we already have." Pointing fingers at everyone but yourself when you are at fault is not relatable, it's repugnant and if it's something you relate to, you should take a hard look at yourself and re-evaluate your entire life.

[@Purgers2]

-I'm forever salty the game was unfinished and they rushed the final 2 chapters because deadlines, crying fans, and it was going to be to complex. The story's ending arc was suppose to be different or at least....It appears that way if you were following the game at the time and look at how much was scrapped and when you look at what was put in it's place....I mean...fk man -The final episode is just a bunch of nonsense nothing dream scape that shoulda been more meaningful if we explored the power(s) and what was happening to arcadia AHHHH im forever salty about this cause I loved the game up to that point and the idea of what it was covering. Rushed nonsensical ending was rushed and nonsensical. :( Life is strange

[@Samm815]

Can you point me in the direction of this stuff? I love looking at what could have been.

[@jaredporikos2197]

@@shizachan8421 I love the second one so much ! :D , Sean and Daniel could be Chole like assholes , but for the most part they are cool

[@lovinani7]

Hey dude, you're not alone. Even when this game was first released, I never liked Chloe. She's just teen angst personified in this very fragile glass bottle that's cracked all over and is too broken to fix.

[@emoneestep]

I never really agreed with the whole "David back-handing Chloe is going too far!" thing. Chloe has stolen his gun, was caught with drugs in her room and was completely out of line with how she spoke to David when he rightly confronted her about the drugs. Chloe is a 19 year old drop out with no job who lives parasitically off her hard-working mother while contributing nothing to the household. It has been made clear in the game that Joyce does not discipline Chloe, likely because she's trying to "take-it-easy" on her daughter. However, this has not benefited Chloe in at ALL and has enabled her to become the entitled brat that she is who fears no consequences for her actions. Chloe is now at the point of regularly engaging in illegal activity. This is not the time to continue being "easy" on her. As a 19 year old, Chloe will be tried as an adult in court. The "she's just a kid" excuse won't hold up when she's arrested for: -Larceny -theft -trespassing/breaking and entering -unlicensed firearm possession and use -Illegal drug use -underaged drinking At the age of 19, grounding is no longer an option since Chloe is considered an adult by law and her parents no longer have the legal authority to keep her in the house. Talking does not work with Chloe as she refuses to listen, even when spoken to gently (see any convo with Max or her mother) or she'll just yell the other person down (David). Harsh punishment and strict action is what she needs in order to get her act in order before she ends up in jail. No one likes doing this, but sometimes a situation calls for it. Chloe gets in multiple people's faces far too brazenly. Doing that to the wrong person, especially considering that she has a foot in the drug trafficking world, is going to get her killed. That single backhand was not abuse. A stepparent is still a parent and as such it is David's job to lay down discipline. Chloe needs to learn that actions have consequences and while 19 is a little old, it is not too late. You cannot engage in illegal activity, get in everyone's face acting big and bold, curse folks out and think that nothing bad will ever come as a result. A smack is too harsh? What do you think will happen when Chloe so much as LOOKS at someone the wrong way in prison?! Lastly, smoking IN the house is blatantly disregarding the HEALTH of both Joyce and David. Smoke travels throughout the house and second hand smoke is actually worst to inhale than first hand smoke. Need I remind you that Chloe pays no bills in this house that she's turning into a health hazard. Feel free to disagree, but that slap was 100% earned.

[@DraculaCronqvist]

Friendly reminder that Chloe's illegal action get her killed in one ending. By her engaging in drug trafficking, blackmail and firearm posession, she gets shot in a school bathroom, where she pathetically bleeds out if not for divine intervention by way of supernatural powers. In essense, her past trauma and her present deeds catch up with her *hard* and she pays the price for it.

[@maidenofiron]

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree with this comment.

[@lecommentar9851]

100%. That shit by far isn't abuse. You can even see the step-father regretted it for a moment but had to rationalize it.

[@CptPhilippnes]

Just wanting some context but there's no evidence that David was abusive to Chloe ever since he entered her life right?

[@Eddie-yv1ix]

@@CptPhilippnes understatement, in fact in the prequel, David was trying to be nice and try to understand her. So basically reconning a plot point..... In a prequel

[@kdash2657]

I got a funny little annecdote for you: I briefly worked for Square Enix back around 2017. More of a freelancer than a contracted employee. I was tasked with helping them at their booth during that year's E3. Life is Strange's next installment was coming out and was being previewed in a press-only room behind all the demos available to the public. Everytime a group of them would come out, they would slap a "Best Of Show" sticker near the entrance, signifying that this was their favorite game in the entire show floor. A year where Dragon Ball Z Fighters was being demo'd not too far from us in the Bandai Namco booth for example. I'm not kidding you here, every single person that gave it that award, evey single one, looked like they used tumblr way too much for their own good: unnatural hair color, piercings everywhere, scrawing as can be, terrible sidecut haircuts, lots of plaid, one of them even had a Soylent bottle which I was amazed they managed to open seeing as their wrist were smaller than their phone was wide. I wouldn't have believed it had I not seen it myself. At the very least I now know the audience this caters too: the YIIk crowd. I still have my swanky Square Enix jacket too.

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

Jesus.

[@michaelknox3715]

So hipsters. You saw hipsters

[@panduvandal]

Sounds cursed lol

[@DrZuluGaming]

Thanks to remind me of that cringy "The Spirits Within is the best Sci-Fi movie ever". I know that the idea was to make Max a hipster but even hipsters would take movies like Donnie Darko over FFSW. Then again, between this and "Pulp Fiction is about time travel", it's clear that it written by people who are the living definition of the "How do you do, fellow kids?" meme.

[@ddjsoyenby]

eh max wasn't that bad imo she cared about her friends and tried her best to be a good friend and i found some of her awkwardness adorable (yes that's just my view)

[@smt64productions40]

What’s Spirits Within?

[@DrZuluGaming]

@@smt64productions40 Final Fantasy: The Spirit Within. However, it has nothing related to Final Fantasy except some guy named Cid. Oh wait, I forgot! They even screw it up by spelling it Sid. They had one job!

[@smt64productions40]

@@DrZuluGaming I see

[@perry-1572]

I think for me, part of the contrast between Travis and Chloe is also in the tone each one abides by in their respective games. Travis is in a game series that to my understanding is incredibly goofy and satirical, making him fit right into this world where things are more over the top and bombastic. But it also has a lot of heart as a result of being so straightforward. Whereas Chloe is in a game that is very grounded in reality, and is trying to get you invested in people that have very real problems that are true to life. So when Chloe is openly admitting to blaming others so she doesn’t have to take responsibility for her own actions, it makes her even less appealing to me because it reminds me of real people who act the way she does.

[@HelloChief117]

Ah, Life Is Cringe. It's been a while. About an hour to be precise, because that's when I got done watching Whitelight's video about it.

[@GodOfOrphans]

E;R and Uricsladbar also have fantastic videos on it if you haven't seen them yet.

[@Lord_Numpty]

I know not who these people are, but if they rip this mess a new one, that's good enough for us. So thank you for mentioning them.

[@EvelynSpeedwagon]

Chloe is literally just a character in a final destination movie. She survives death, and it keeps coming after her. I can assure you that shortly after 2, she’ll probably fucking die.

[@jkarma3356]

nope.

[@ReynLynxPSI]

It honestly amuses me that just about everyone who I've seen talk about this game absolutely hates it

[@Saltedroastedcaramel]

The filter is off

[@GodOfOrphans]

Same, only person I know who doesn't completely hate it is SuperButterBuns and even she criticizes it a fair bit. OH and one of the ladies of Outside Xbox really loves it but I forget her name, that's the only one I know that outright loves it.

[@MetallicaRules]

Weird, because outside of a couple of people back when the game was first coming out, it's been only recently that I've seen people actually criticize the game. Back then, and even now, most people I see praise the ever loving hell out of it, and I don't get why.

[@Quandry1]

@@MetallicaRules I remember people trying to unrelentingly take my head off for calling Chloe the epitome of a toxic relationship when it came out. And For years got told i hadn't really played the game for not liking Chloe and pointing out all the ways that she's toxic and makes the lives of the people around her worse and creates just about every bad situations she's experienced in her life. The Death of her Dad is the only one I don't remember her creating. Which is saying something with the laundry list of supposed abuse and tragic circumstances she's supposed to have had.

[@MetallicaRules]

@@Quandry1 Preaching to the choir my friend. The LiS fan base has honestly been one of the most toxic fandoms I've seen. Say even one remotely critical thing about it, they come down on you hard. Insult Chloe, you're a demon. Criticize the writing, you're uncultured. It goes on and on.

[@Freelancer90]

honestly, a bit off topic, but i love when you insert the Master chief death yells in your videos. i wonder if anyone else appreciates it.

[@aran4241]

One of my favorite "Unlikeable" characters is Neku from The World Ends With You (for the western translation, apparetnly the original material was a bit different), He starts off as an asshole but you actually get to see him grow and develop throughout the course of the story which is rewarding for those who can stick around and not get turned off by the opening chapter. Getting to see characters who start off as unlikeable transition into something greater is one of the most rewarding things to see in a narrative If it's done right

[@fuckingking6796]

My favorite hero is logi from the code alchemist

[@yoshidoor5229]

The original material was actually the same

[@aran4241]

oh really? I heard that the JP script was at least a little different with how his peronality was handled, so I assumed maybe it was a thing to make it "more appealing " to the west, regardless I think he's still a good unlikable character

[@lordcavalier9688]

My favourite hatable character is James heller from prototype 2. He’s an asshole sick and actually stupid. But him being a pissed off revenge fuelled psychopath in a game where you play a psychopath that rips people apart and absorb them he works.

[@fuckingking6796]

@@lordcavalier9688 yes

[@danielmarin6127]

Chloe dying was legit the FUNNIEST shit that I ever seen (both the intro and ending)

[@RanMouri82]

Chloe could've been improved if she was still brooding, but quietly helped other people, and maybe still lashed out at times, but was self-aware enough to apologize for it.

[@venom7971]

I’m playing life in strange today and I realized Chloe is a bad person when she got mad for answering Kate’s call. I also don’t think she’s a good friend because of how he treated Max like a puppet, and shes also a thief.

[@bottomtext4911]

Chloe getting mad at you for talking to Kate really pissed me off lmao especially since Kate was dealing with really bad bullying

[@n-extrafries-surprise]

I dont care about LiS but I love reviewers tearing it down because of Chloe. Like good golly, Chloe reminds me of someone toxic I know irl. And of course, I'm here because of NMH. Travis, such a loveable jackass

[@TheAdarkerglow]

A certain type of people praise Chloe. Most people don't.

[@TrophiesNclips]

Lol 😂

[@disco_nnected7910]

I enjoyed the video (your videos are always so well made and fun to watch!) but I have a point I would like to add: You hit the nail right on the head when you said LIS expects you to like Chloe but NMH doesn't expect you to like Travis, but I think it's important to note how each game tells us weather to like and hate the character: In LIS, you keep doing things for Chloe and treating her toxic behavior as a sign of being cool. Hell, the entire weight about the endgame descioun is about how grand your relationship with Chloe is. She keeps being mean to you and the game force you to react positvely for that (from what I've seen) but the thing is, if you don't like Chloe, it all backfires. In NMH, however, you get the feel the entire charade is a parody over the very violent power trip it is (in a good way)-and Travis is the centerpeice of it all. The tone of most of the game is a mocking one, and a lot of the jokes are at Travis expense. The game DOES NOT tolorate his behavior-yes, it's also in the way Travis grows out of it, but also in the way it makes it's critique of it entirely obvious. Travis is a jackass and we see how his jackassry onlyl leads him to violence, misery, and frankly, being fooled and scammed. Travis gets extra "I like you" points because he is player character and naturally one is more attached to him, but honestly it's not what makes him better than Chloe (I mean, we saw the reaction of making HER the main character) it's the way the game acknowledge Travis is NOT a good person, which propels it to challenge those behaviors and not only change them, but give extra depth to the character.

[@poolturtle5772]

The evolution of Cloud Strife is something.

[@iiantixsocial]

I never understood why Max would blame the gun for shooting Chloe, when Chloe is holding it and is being reckless

[@MisteRRYouTuby]

There's a simpler reason to why Chloe fails as a character that's an asshole but could be loved and why Travis succeeds as a character that's an asshole and IS loved: Disillusionment.

[@xavier8951]

I think you mean for Chloe we're supposed to love.

[@Djwt845]

You know the writing fails when Chloe’s father the man who the game tries to frame as abusive and sexist comes off more as flawed but sympathetic than Chloe herself

[@powcow60floordayboi16]

Yes more writing lessons! Time expand my brain cells

[@fuzzynuttz5092]

Easy... just make them not be a jerk all the time

[@TheRisky9]

My issue with Chloe isn't that they made her a shitty character with a toxic personality. That's okay. The issue is that they tried to frame her terrible behavior as some kind of chaotic good. Well, that's a very tricky thing to pull off, because you constantly have to straddle the edge of doing things not acceptable to a functional society, and not making the character totally irredeemable.

[@user-zn7qe2xl6h]

One of my favorite jackasses is Ash fron the Evil Dead/Army of Darkness series. But the reason why he's likable is because he's just an average joe thrown into a world of gore and deadites. His life went tits up in such a short time, and as we see in the films, comics, and shows, the guy can never catch a break. We can relate to that sense of frustration and being done with this shit.

[@alvincommons1793]

The interesting thing about Travis during the Death Metal fight is that he does go through that realization during his monologue when subtitles are on. He sees all the lights and fame and power he would gain by defeating Death Metal and other assassins that comes after him. However something starts looming over his head, like he has went too far and he can't get out. He has the instincts of being a killer, but something deeper in his head is mocking him for trying and he can't escape it. After talking about the fame and fortune, he starts repeating "Gotta find the exit...Gotta find the exit" and "Can't find the exit...Can't find the exit." showing that he's slowly regretting what he got himself into and also unable to leave because he has already started the fight, so he tries to convince himself that this IS what he wants, but as we see in No More Heroes 2 and Travis Strikes Again, he goes through a downward spiral of questioning what does he really want since the fulfillment of paradise never was there. He was trying to figure out what his real purpose in life is. He thought he will get it if he become the number 1 assassin, which he gave up on in No More Heroes, naming him "The Crownless King". He thought he would get it if he gets with Sylvia, which in TSA, it's hinted that they aren't together in that way even though he has a child with her. Then in TSA, he thinks that he will get that fulfillment of paradise if he goes into hiding and just play video games forever, which wasn't true either after badman shows up and forcing him to wake up and acknowledge that there isn't any escape from his assassin life. If badman didn't show up, he would have ended up like all the assassins he has killed. Unfulfilled and empty. It's only after going through the events of TSA that Travis finally realizes that he can't keep running anymore. That he needs to acknowledge that he is a "wandering assassin" and that he has people and others that he needs to protect (Sylvia, Jeanne, The people of Santa Destroy, His cat Jeanne). That's why in No More Heroes 3, I believe we are going to see the most mature Travis has ever been. One that has learned from what he is gone through and uses that to save his town Santa Destroy from FU and the Galactic Alien Assassins. TBH I wouldn't be surprised if Travis dies in the end of NM3 or is given an offering to make him a higher being, which he will decline because he knows himself now and doesn't need more. He knows his purpose and what he is killing for.