Hearthstone Player Tries to Guess How Good YuGiOh! Cards Are w/

[@mcfluffikinz7365]

You can think of Painful Choice in Hearthstone terms as: select 5 cards from your deck, your opponent adds one to your hand, and the rest have their Deathrattles triggered lol

[@kangshonagon5295]

deathrattles in hearthstone is just too weak compare to yogioh's gy effect...

[@anhvuha7958]

@@kangshonagon5295 For the game they're pretty damn good. If such a Painful Choice existed in Hearthstone you could play it and you get like... 3 damage AOE, 8 armor, summon a 5/8 taunt and heal everything on your side of the board for 8 health. This is off the Deathrattle Priest deck recently. That much is usually enough to put you in a position to win the whole game. Unless said Painful Choice is 10 mana or sth

[@musicdude1540]

@@anhvuha7958 yeah I can think of some decks that would be insane. It just has to not be a legendary to trigger.

[@ubadman1]

@@kangshonagon5295 not really a wild rouge deathrattle deck could end the gsme withe painful choice working like that.

[@SatanicWren]

@@anhvuha7958 If you wanted to make it a true equivilent to Yugioh’s version, it would cost 0 Mana

[@EYYYYYJustin]

I cant remember who said this but these words live rent free in my mind to this day "If an Exodia deck is competitively viable then there is something wrong with the game."

[@Dorocek]

Sounds like something Reynad would say to be honest xD

[@Budda523]

Welcome to Hearthstone :P

[@nicolascarneiro3288]

The duel logs said that I think

[@RaulDiaz-mp8ms]

For context to Hearthstone players... "If C'thun The Shattered is meta, then something is wrong with the game."

[@Anthony-qx6er]

Exodia is only viable if you can reliably draw thru your ENTIRE deck in one turn. And that just means something is VERY wrong in the game.

[@GumshoeClassic]

What's really interesting about Exodia is that, while it's generally seen as a very unfun card and usually isn't good either, it serves as a weird form of balance alert. The mere existence of Exodia limits how much card draw can be allowed. Whenever the big yellow fella starts making waves, you know some draw card or engine has run out of control.

[@volcanical]

There is still tons of draw mechanics in current yu-gi-oh but most of them have "special targets" that usually doesn't include exodia parts.

[@Graysett]

HS has its own version, I believe it's called "The Boar Test". If there's a way to make Stonetusk Boar a card that's getting a lot of legit play, something has gone wrong.

[@luminous3558]

Its usually other cards that start becoming problematic whenever draw gets too crazy. Exodia forcing you to play 5 cards that do nothing until you draw them all just makes it way worse than other first turn kills. The usual criminals are burn effects like Cannon Soldier or Slash Draw.

[@familiarblade]

None of this is actually right. Exodia is normally seen as a fun meme deck and the reason card draw is always limited is because of how powerful other cards are.

[@emreamuk6207]

With generic draw in yugioh there is muuuuuch better stuff you can do than playing exodia

[@dailybugle2147]

20:33 " I'm not gonna bother reading that" seems like he's well on his way to being a duelist.

[@ghetoknight7801]

I can confirm, I have this fieldspell with no protection, golden castle of stromberg, and I won 8 games in a row, solely from players attacking into it [it's a mirror force] multiple times across multiple turns oh and ofc floodgates sothey question the functionality of their own cards

[@reedjohnson5916]

Lmao

[@FirebirdPrince]

Yup i stopped reading long ass effects years ago. Either i end up negating it or they win, idc I'm not *that* competitive 😂

[@c0mplex564]

@@ghetoknight7801 my friend built a deck around this card and named it “they’d rather lose than read”

[@herdoman5169]

"aint readin allat 💀🤣"

[@SilentDragonite149]

Stevie: "My favorite character is Weedle?" Rarran: "Weevil." The screen: "Weavile."

[@karimabdelhak4100]

Stevie: The Gravyard can be understood as a second hand in terms of value. Card Effect: Get one card to hand and 4 to graveyard. Rarran: Yea that card is not good. He straight up told you it is insane. :D

[@rousedrabble]

Right? After being told that information directly, the card should effectively be read as "add 5 cards to your hand".

[@wZem]

Also Rarran: This card depends on how often special summons occur Stevie: I give you a hint, special summons are veeeery good Rarran: I think this card is pretty weak

[@theod4660]

To be fair, you have to have play yugioh to understand that it isn’t just a figure of speach

[@staren1991]

@@theod4660 or Magic the gathering

[@LinkThinks]

@@staren1991 Agreed. I'm a Magic player and when I saw Painful Choice I went "Oh man there's no way that isn't busted."

[@ZackeroniAndCheese]

Your analysis of Maxx "C" was actually pretty accurate for the time it was printed in. It has just aged very well and has gotten better with time

[@Figgy20000]

Rarran ridiculously underestimates draw engines in general. How the fuck can anyone give Painful Choice which is basically tutor 5 cards with no downside whatsoever anything other than a "This is ungodly broken in any tcg that has ever existed" rating.

[@Unknownz000]

If any card says "draw" and doesn't have a restriction or a down side. It's a good yugioh card. And Maxx c effectivly reads "draw your whole deck :)"

[@BacchusGames]

@@Figgy20000 When a person who doesn't play a game with a graveyard and therefore underrates the ease of interaction with the graveyard, it can cause some confusion. Just think if it said banish the 4 cards instead, as for a hearthstone only player that is basically what the graveyard can seem like :D

[@Lightning_Lance]

@@BacchusGames even if it banished, wouldn't it still be good? Like you can just get 3 copies of one card and 2 of another, and if both of those are redundant in that regardless of which one you get you can combo off, then it doesn't matter what the opponent picks and you just essentially get to take the card you want from your deck.

[@suisui5930]

@@Lightning_Lance > banished Woah, did u just make thunder dragon support? That's like +1 million card advantage

[@Limxuv]

I love how you can tell with the first card that Rarran's initial impression is that it's called "Painful Choice" because the user has to give up 4 cards to gain 1 potentially useful card when it's actually called that because the opponent has to decide which of the 5 cards would be the least devastating to send to the graveyard

[@just_a_tepig3611]

He viewed it as giving the opponent power and not having them pick their poison

[@DemiIsNotHere]

No, even in early Yugi it was a. "OK BUDDY, YOU WANT TO GIVE ME Raigeki, dark hole, heavy storm, change of heart or pot of greed" And back then magician of chaos and magician of fate could bring whatever you needed. Another oldie use was to throw big beatstick with a revival on hand.

[@warrockenjoyer2170]

I explained it to my buddy as "pick what card starts my combo."

[@pockit5107]

@@DemiIsNotHere Well in modern Yugioh where the graveyard actually matters and isn't just a fodder pile for shitty vanilla monsters, the OP is actually correct.

[@laytonjr6601]

​​@@DemiIsNotHereEarly Yugi would be Confiscation, Delinquent Duo, Forceful Sentry because they are useless in a top deck war. Some Dark and Light if Chaos has already been printed. Another choice is to put big monsters as well as Reborn/Premature Burial

[@pinnacleexpress420]

You picked some pretty good cards for this. As an old-school YGO player, even I had fun playing along. This was a really good idea and was executed in a fun fashion. 10/10

[@GFBFishscratch]

I am an oldschool Yu-Gi-Oh player for context. Like, Pharaoh's Servant just hit the shelves. I lived through the times that convinced Konami (And UpperDeck!) that the game needed a Ban List. When Yata Garasu popped up on screen, I instinctively became stressed. Then I spit out my drink when he said it was pretty bad.

[@danquaylesitsspeltpotatoe8307]

Hearthstone the MTG ripp off for the dim witted people!

[@pinnacleexpress420]

@@danquaylesitsspeltpotatoe8307 what

[@danquaylesitsspeltpotatoe8307]

@@pinnacleexpress420 Do you play hearthstone? That might explain this!

[@pinnacleexpress420]

@@danquaylesitsspeltpotatoe8307 No, I dont, and I also dont feel like explaining how Hearthstone is actually very different from MTG bc your comments are so random, rude, unwanted and nonsensical all at the same time lmao or Did you reply to the wrong comment? That might explain this!

[@thelog6114]

15:44 "You wouldn't wanna put 3 of those in your deck though right?" followed by the actual best reaction in the video from stevie.

[@K_Ray_Kenneth_Raymond]

I’m so happy that Yugioh was partially explained at the beginning just so anyone that didn’t play could understand just how wildly complicated it is. Please do a round two!

[@GaussianEntity]

The amount of time it takes to fully understand Yugioh is enough to get a bachelor's degree.

[@vo1ce147]

nah it's not that complicated if you not playing it irl, even then till this day the one thing I hate going to local just meeting a random Andy's and sharking the rules so he win local

[@Unknownz000]

@@GaussianEntity may seem difficult but every deck has literally one or two combo lines that you go into every time. And whoever breaks the other's board usually instantly wins. It's basically a 2 turn game that requires no brain activity above doing the one combo you memorized and hope your opponent can't put up a better board. And that's coming from a yugioh player.

[@GaussianEntity]

@@Unknownz000 That's true but there's much more to it than that. There's so much to just figuring out the right card to Ash that there's just no way you can expect people to easily learn the most linear meta decks in a short amount of time. And there are often other decks that have better lines that are far from linear.

[@Saeohh]

@@vo1ce147 If you're getting sharked often that's because you're to bad to know you're cheating constantly

[@maguc5906]

I like how Stevie was pretty upfront and honest this episode, the problem was Rarran was too focused on "oh is this bait or not???"

[@xyzen9673]

Also he was too focused on "how good is this in hearthstone" which will be impossible to gauge since Yu-Gi-Oh doesnt have any resources like mana to manage... Like draw 2 is the most broken effect you can get, so much so that no matter the negative effect, it will still see decent play(just look at the legal pots) while on hearthstone, while its good to draw, you have to keep in mind the manacost, which limits the use of draw often.

[@ReigoVassal]

He had some PTSD from other cards game.

[@HumanoidCableDreads]

Yes saying the card with by far the most text on it represents the average card in the game is super honest.

[@joema_art]

@@HumanoidCableDreads many cards nowadays are the same size as baron tho in terms of text size so stevie was pretty honest I’d say

[@edb36mar]

@@HumanoidCableDreads borrel load savage dragon. Barron de fleur, crystrom halquifibrax, "the entire adventure engine" My boy mirror jade, "The entire fucking branded archtype" "tearalaments" El shadoll construct/Winda Dragoon Masked hero dark line DPE Performapal skull crow bat joker The entire magician archtype. Infernoids. Burning abyss Divine arsenal AA Zeus- Sky thunder Eldlitch Do you want me to fucking continue? DO YOU WANT ME TO FUCKING CONTINUE?

[@michaelk__]

One thing extra for "Maxx 'C'": There is something often called the "Maxx 'C' Challenge", where you actually try and special summon so much, that your opponent draws their entire deck and loses to deck out. There are a few decks that can actually do it for a 40 card deck, most can't for 60, but most of the time you will get stopped by the handtraps your opponent draws. You have to special summon 35 times to deck out a 40 deck size opponent. That this is possible for some decks should show how crazy fast yugioh can let you play nowadays.

[@andreamarastoni9860]

Yeah, but it is so fun to go second with dino, oppo plays maxx c, you play miscellanosaur and win that challenge cause even if the oppo draws the entire deck your cards are just immune😂

[@georgeapple4398]

@@sirgarde2293 I don't think this a very accurate description of how yugioh is right now or really has ever been. Most decks, especially most meta decks, do not have access to infinite loops. There are a bunch of memey bullshit and hostage taking decks where you can infinitely loop things because of oversights regarding interactions between cards that were released many, many years apart, but especially in modern yugioh most cards have hard once per turn restrictions, and the cards that enable most of the infinite loops/degenerate loops that discard your opponent's whole hand or just win you the game on the first turn are banned and normally are banned almost immediately after they start seeing meta-relevant play.

[@Anonym-mh7sz]

First time somebody won the challenge on me was a mayakashi player. I didn't know the archetype but damn, it seemed to me it that it's entire gameplan revolves around punishing maxx C players :-D infinite special summons ftw.

[@IamGrimalkin]

@@Anonym-mh7sz Well it would make sense for mayakashi, there is a mill ftk with that deck involving soul-absorbing bone tower, which mills every time a zombie is summoned. By activating maxx c, you've effectively given them a free bone tower.

[@matthiaslener2763]

Six Samurai has a lot of fun doing this

[@randommaster06]

I always seen people gloss over the Extra Deck when explaining YGO to people, but it's the most distinct feature and is almost always the reason so many decks can build the boards that they do. It's really more of a second hand, since you can look through it and play specific cards, so instead of a 5-card opening hand, you have a 20-card opening hand. Explaining it that way to people would probably be a better way to have them think about the game.

[@TheCagedK]

As a yugioh fan and a stevie fan I think a lot of the appeal of these videos is balancing how much he tells them without giving them the answer. Think it’s a lot less interesting to see him guess if he knows everything. That said I think stevie realized later in the video how much he can help them and it still doesn’t mean much because of how different the games are

[@IC-23]

People also never really mention that because yugioh has no resource only activation requirements your strongest turn is often your first turn.

[@randommaster06]

@@IC-23 Yeah, YGO plays out way more like W40k than other TCGs.

[@joshuatran1556]

I usually explain it to MTG players as "You know commander format? We have 15 commanders accessible at all times "

[@YukiFubuki.]

@@IC-23 if not the first turn then the 2nd or 3rd turn for the ones that requires a bit of setup

[@weckar]

I like how the discussion on Waking The Dragon actually gets to why in some decks it is kind of good: It is implicit protection for other face-down cards, as your opponent won't want to chance hitting the WTD.

[@dougisacat]

my favorite part of waking the dragon is that it can get ash blossomed

[@laidback_starr5337]

yea but single target backrow removal is less common now with things like lightning storm, feather duster, twin twisters, etc. so its more niche than actually good

[@weckar]

@@laidback_starr5337 broad removal still triggers it

[@archmagemc3561]

@@laidback_starr5337 Its only really used in decks where they wanna punish you from removing all their traps like Chain Burn. Chain burn doesn't care if you HFD their backrow, but they'll run this because they can drop some strong omni-negates or a SS negate.

[@ghetoknight7801]

@@archmagemc3561 I mean, it could be used in any main-deck heavy trap deck, and it is. A free beatstick/wall/negate is pretty big, and people are starting to maindeck backrow removal again because every once in a while control decks are topping I'd have to disagree tho, people either try removing a trap, or they play a huge amount of material and make a negate for the trap, they never just ignore it unless they;re a dumbass, because letting a trap exist with no repercussions is the equivalent of trying to trigger a magic cylinder it honestly depends on how the deck you're playing against responds to traps, if they brute force through it, have enough material to pop it first, or can make something t protect themselves from it, considering people try otk'ing turn 2, it's more than not likely they'll pop waking the dragon imo but yes, it also servers as a precautionary so players dont blindly hit your other traps, ig.

[@artstsym]

In most games with a graveyard, "search 5, your opponent picks one for you to draw and bins the other 4" is effectively "search 5, draw those 5." Generally, the only limiting factor is how many sets have been released, because graveyard shenanigans increase over time.

[@naqib_2365]

really? I am not familiar with many card games but the only one where this is consistently true is yugioh. Magic depends on if the deck is heavily graveyard focused or not

[@artstsym]

@@naqib_2365 Right, but you don't put such cards in your deck if you don't have a way to profit from them. This is also true in Yugioh, the only difference is that graveyard shenanigans are far more ubiquitous (although, I mean, depending on the Magic format...).

[@ich3730]

@@naqib_2365 MTG had busted graveyard decks before yugioh even existed xD

[@lukasz1kier]

@@naqib_2365 In magic all eternal formats are full of graveyard synergies, even they aren't dredge, reanimator or other grave deck. "Look for 4 opponent bins 4" would be good in almost any deck in modern - you search for 5 lands, you get one and the other 4 pay for a delve card and thats a very bad case of this card.

[@williambarnes5023]

To translate this into magic: If you cast "Search for five, opponent picks one, draw that, bin the others" on turn one, your turn two play is a fucking 7/8 Tarmogoyf. And that's before you start paying flashback and dredge costs.

[@Kyotosomo]

Yugioh is easily the most powercreeped card game in history. Summoning a monster with 3000 attack used to be super hard taking an entire game, now you can summon a full board of them turn one that also come with all sorts of crazy effects to lock your opponent out.

[@citbCatInTheBag]

I agree about Yugioh being powercrept, but summoning a 3000 attacker has been easy since 2005, the power of monster effects and the resulting game speed is what has done most of the powercreeping

[@Jellypeño6]

@@citbCatInTheBag well but there was no guarantee back then that you get all the stuff you want. Nowadays 1 card is often enough to get going. Combined with a bunch of extenders you can easily end up on a sick board even if you don't play a tier 1 deck. I used to be a hard-core ygo player but the game isn't even recognizable anymore. Tried some master duel but didn't enjoy it. The UI is just so laggy and feels outdated, getting multiple decks will cost you big money ans bots are ruining the player's experience. When people say hearthstone is getting worse I think of ygo and it always reminds me that hs is still in a pretty good spot

[@filipvadas7602]

Its the second part that annoys me tbh. Boards that basically lock the other player out of being able to do anything is annoying af

[@MaggotDiggo1]

​@@filipvadas7602 Control decks in a nutshell.

[@Heatranoveryou]

Well yeah, its the only tcg that doesnt ban old cards. Its hearthstone wild format.

[@thecaptain5051]

I love that Yu-Gi-Oh has so much text on their cards while also having the "Yu-Gi-Oh players cant read" meme

[@michaelk__]

I mean... would you want to read a full novel every time a card gets played? tbh: YGO is a very complicated game with many effects to keep track off, e.g. there are many cards that lock you into certain types of monsters forbthe turn. It's extremely easy to miss something and do a mistake based on that. Put on top that a lot of rulings around cards can be very confusing and you have the perfect blast to end up messing up.

[@GjemliKallinn]

theres a correlation there

[@slippers8000]

Haha ye it's so true. Wording is very specific when it comes to rulings so sometimes when things interact the outcome isn't what you thought it would be.

[@luminous3558]

People generally have a simplyfied understanding of a card in their head which usually doesnt exactly align with the actual text on the card. Like players know that called by the grave banishes a card from the grave to negate its effect. But knowing that it only banishes monsters, negates the effect of all card with that name and lasts 2 turns is a different thing entirely.

[@darkira2129]

@@michaelk__ also like negating an effect isn't that simple, like you got to know what you need to negate/remove or your opponent oppression continue. unless you can negate everything, or just floodgates.

[@VanillaVictini]

That reaction to Maxx "C" is VERY appropriate! Maxx "C" is so meta warping that you're basically saying to your opponent, "Hey, end your turn, or I'm going to crush you with all this advantage you just gave me... and if you end your turn, you probably lose anyway due to having nothing on your board."

[@rakkis1576]

Yep. Of course, there is always those madmen that go "Challenge accepted" and power through it to win anyways. Those are usually fun times.

[@raisp6073]

It’s something that shouldn’t exist in modern yugioh

[@scottbecker4367]

@@raisp6073 Master Duel: *laughs in unlimited Maxx C*

[@itsmrdante6274]

@@scottbecker4367 Called by is very good

[@furymonger5395]

@@itsmrdante6274 and crossout designate before it got limited :(

[@Corrupted]

I love how YGO is the only game, digital or card-based, where I have to read cards/abilities/effects multiple times before I even start comprehending wtf it's doing - Something about the wording, text and systems is so extremely confusing lmao

[@aarondeifel6357]

How did he miss on the first one? Hahaha “can you use the graveyard” “Absolutely very easily” “It’s bad then” lmao

[@benlarson6031]

He did the exact thing with Maxx c, like how does his brain work T_T

[@felixeisenmenger6254]

His card evaluation is really whack. It feels more like he's trying to find some kind of mindgame in the card choices presented rather than thinking about what a card accomplishes.

[@Elephanthobo]

i feel like he's stuck in the mindset of cards as "fast" or "slow", but ALL CARDS ARE FAST

[@zhangbill1194]

@@benlarson6031 Nah maxx c makes perfect sense, this guy doesn't know how much special summons happen in ygo

[@musicdude1540]

@@felixeisenmenger6254 Your situation perception is really wack. It is almost as if he's been on the presenting end of this more than he has played the game.

[@shacothememeboi5808]

You finally did one episode with Yugioh...HELL YEAH

[@Alisavage2]

He did one before too

[@theesethetron4593]

Yes dude. As a tcg player I love this

[@SynderFGC]

Been waiting for this

[@ich3730]

idk man this episode was horrible xD rarran straight up not trying, thinking a free "draw 1, mill 4" is somehow bad.

[@dasdrifter12]

@@ich3730 well he comes from a game where it IS bad. There's no graveyard in Hearthstone, meaning there's no graveyard interaction. Cards are gone forever when they're used. It's a completely different game. In HS this card would be "Pick 5 cards from your deck. Draw the worst one and remove the other 4 from the game"

[@Dazllingston]

You can take revenge by making a "How good you know Yu-Gi-Oh" Imagine him trying to find the mistake in 10 lines of text, a bunch of symbols, the art, the name and in the the card type only to find out that you've used the different font for the card artist's name

[@PhileasLiebmann]

That would be easy to spot. Because there's no artist credit on Yugioh cards.

[@Dazllingston]

@@PhileasLiebmann 13:00 Isn't "Kazuki Takahashi" on the bottom right corner an artist's name?

[@delta3244]

@@Dazllingston KT is the person who created Yu-Gi-Oh!, and is not one of its artists

[@PhileasLiebmann]

@@Dazllingston Technically yes, but really no. Kazuki Takahashi is the creator of Yugioh (the original manga), so some of the art, especially on older cards, is his. But that down in the lower right corner is just the copyright stamp and its the same on every card.

[@florianfercsak5186]

Ygo version of that series would be a savage Imagine showing 20 years old vanilla monsters with 1 word changed in their texts

[@dethhollow]

I'd really like to see how he'd react to seeing a Kaiju card, because holy shit those are super weird ones. Or it might also be fun to take a full archetype and be like "Okay, here's the main cards. Is this good or not?" Like Fluffals could be fun to see him react to just because it's been around for a while with varying effects and a really creative premise.

[@GiggleMuggins]

This was actually a ton of fun to watch as someone from purely a Yugioh background. I would love to see a part two, and specifically a reaction to Time Thief Redoer and the idea of XYZ monsters in general.

[@Starwarsgeek12]

I remember playing a GBA Yu-Gi-Oh games (I have played MTG for about 20 years), maybe 2004 Paths to Champion or something, and I always gravitated towards teh XYZ fusion deck in it, very fun to play

[@ryleynadhir4685]

@@Starwarsgeek12 Xyz monsters are different from the XYZ fusions, though

[@Starwarsgeek12]

@@ryleynadhir4685 idk I played a GBA game in High School

[@sluggernott]

@@Starwarsgeek12 Hahaha, yeah he's referring to a summoning mechanic called "Xyz" (Pronounced Exeez), that is one of the ways to access powerful monsters from your extra deck in the modern game. I think they were introduced in 2011.

[@GoonManGuy]

Some added context for how much faster YGO is than Hearthstone. If built properly, someone can end their first turn on two to four 8/8 Blademaster Okani that can counter minions, spells, or both, sometimes multiple times. If you can’t get out from under all the negation, the game’s over before it even begins. That’s why cards like Dark Ruler No More are so good, because they let you play the game.

[@dmike3507]

LOL wtf, why does anyone play the game then?!

[@red3d364]

@@dmike3507 because you interact with your opponent while he build the board... The Game is fast but there many steps in which you can stop him... Its complicating and hard to learn and makes a lot of fun. But its not grindy (itleast most decks arent)

[@bakublader1999]

@@dmike3507 because people are only talking about the ideal scenario. Everyone casually omits that you play cards to stop your opponent from doing what they want. If you let your opponent full combo then that just means your deck is shit.

[@prakajr2]

​@@dmike3507 because it's fun finding a way to break said board.

[@r3zaful]

@@dmike3507 here is a conclusion "ygo is an unfair game, but in return you are allowed to be unfair back"

[@DreWulff]

It is interesting to consider how a Combo deck is the opposite in YuGi to a Combo deck in HS. Combo decks in YuGi are the fastest decks, playing a huge chain of cards on the first turn to end on a board that's very hard to break, while Combo decks in HS require to stall the game for long until they find the pieces they need to finally do their combo

[@StriiderEclipse]

@@azu1394 those are FTK decks, not OTK decks.

[@zanzeron4277]

@@azu1394 no, they dont. OTK and FTK are distinct terms and mean different things in YugiOh. OTKs are usually based on getting enough attack on the board to do at least 8k through the opponent's board while FTK's are often built to burn 8k or perform some alternate win condition because you can't attack on the first turn.

[@yoyoyo8087]

@@azu1394 from what i know ztk would be something like exodia tho

[@syrelian]

@@azu1394 No he's absolutely right, FTK and OTK are different things ZTK is just an FTK with more luck involved though, usually just hard-draw Exodia at match-start

[@benlarson6031]

I would LOVE to see you do videos in this vein where your guests coach you through the deck building process and then a few games of their respective card game. I'm sure that's a lot more work but I think the videos would be really fun and have a lot of shenanigans ensue

[@Dannysapphire]

The fact a hearthstone player who never played modern Yugioh understood the power of Pot of Desires more than many people who played the game for years when Desires came out just makes me kind of shocked but in a pleasant way. Props.

[@Feast_]

It seems like most people outside looking in, Desires is a great card, while we have people in YGO screaming "-9" It's crazy

[@Dannysapphire]

@@Feast_ Exactly. Really fascinating how he even acknowledged that not every deck can run it but that decks that can run it should.

[@Aquilenne]

It makes some sense. Yugioh has much stronger searching than Hearthstone. So while a Hearthstone player might see it as having no real downsides outside of fatigue games since it might as well be banishing cards that you'd never see anyway, for people who play Yugioh it becomes a pretty significant risk of hitting your garnets and breaking combos.

[@redreboot483]

That's probably because tcg players were huffing copium thanks to the card being like 150 usd lmao

[@cadufraga6851]

I have a huge streak of bad luck in ygo, so I'm not risking sending all my combo pieces to banish with desires

[@kaitengiri]

31:10 Yata-Garasu actually used to be absolutely broken even without its combo. The game around when Yata released had mountains of board clears. As long as you could just find an opening, you could poke them with Yata, which would either put them behind in terms of card draw, OR, because YGO is so fast pace, if your opponent did not have any more resources in hand, they would often have to just pass turn. And in that case, you could just straight up Yata-lock them right there and win the game. The card was so broken that a month after release, it got put on the banned list and I think is still there to this day. It was an absolute beast. Nowadays, there's too many special summons and deck searchers that Yata is just too slow to keep up with, so it's terrible now. But back then...woof.

[@kichiroumitsurugi4363]

Close. Yata recently was unbanned and put to 1

[@jhawkkw87]

Not sure if you're talking about the TCG or the OCG for how quickly it got banned. I know in the TCG, Yata was legal for a little over a year (released June 2003 in Legacy of Darkness, banned October 2004). Yata did recently return to limited status in the May 2022 list where it still sits to this day.

[@badazzKayKay]

Yata Garasu wasn't broken without CED. I quite remember YGO being a statstick game at that time until the Chaos cards (Invasion of Chaos) were released. Afterwards they released their very first banlist with both Yata and CED in. Wasting a summon for Yata was not worth it most of the time.

[@mrg2155]

⁠​⁠@@badazzKayKay I remember people getting Yata locked left and right at my tournaments all morning without CED’s help like OP described. Yata was the most broken card back then, I suspect you didn’t play back then if you don’t remember that

[@badazzKayKay]

@@mrg2155 I do believe that most cards in those decks back then were kinda strong, but not exactly broken. I played quite a ton of tournaments back then. The card was prominent, but what about Gemini Elf? Jinzo? The other cards that were banned afterwards?

[@Yuzuki1337]

I'm not surprised that this is almost an hour long, the average YGO card is half a novel 🤣

[@mgloriousone9823]

Then you have pot of greed with only three words, and players will tell horror stories about playing against it like they just survived hiroshima.

[@Partypoopersgroup]

@@mgloriousone9823 Costless +1 is actually insane in Yugioh. Cause Mana doesn't exist and stuff. Everything is more focused on using your once per turns smartly.

[@Yuzuki1337]

@@mgloriousone9823 Yeah but what does it do? :P

[@nudnud9]

@@Yuzuki1337 WHEN HE CASTS POT OF GREED, HE GETS TO ADD 2 CARDS FROM HIS DECK DIRECTLY TO HIS HAND!! (technically draw not add, it matters, no one cares)

[@vo1ce147]

nah we just reading thesis

[@marmics96]

Its funny from a magic players perspective. The first card is so obviously busted if you play any game with a graveyard

[@benbyrd4552]

Zero mana intuition, but digging more cards??? Yes please.

[@SpottedZebra]

Yup, that one and Pot of Greed are the poster children of what Yugioh's "power 9" would be. While it didn't do all that much when it came out in 2002, it was obviously not made with future-proofing in mind and had to get banned in 2004.

[@Jaenhear]

Yeah, I was like "a blue dredge/delve deck would kill for this"... Then I remembered Gifts Ungiven exists XD

[@IAliienHD]

Right?! Cough cough intuition send LED underworld breach and sevinnes reclamation in commander and you just win if they have no stop for it lol

[@TS0ciety]

@@Jaenhear yeah, 0 mana gifts ungiven is pretty busted 😂

[@Dreadnote-pf7of]

I love MTG, Heartstone, LoR and another TCGs, but I LOOOOOVE Yugioh for one particular reason - just absolute blast of emotions it awake inside everyone that try to understand it after "normal" TCGs. Just the look on a face when player trying to understand normal summons, special summons, XZ summons, pendelums, attack possition, defence possition, extra deck and ALL other stuff that you could see in Yugioh plus its wild and wonky style of art and names plus block of text on every card is just... Just amazing. And what's even wilder - is that you probably need to know almost all of it, because its now like "Oh, ok, for this couple of years we gonna play Link-game. When link meta is gone - you probably don't need to know how its even work if you don't play eternal formats", like in example in MTG you don't need to know how adventure, jump-stars or embalm work, because these mechanics rotated out of standart... But HERE you better be prepared, because otherwise you just gonna sit there and say "well, I guess it is how this mechanic is work, I trust you, my opponent, because I don't understand what is even going on with your side of a table". So yeah. Yugioh maybe not my favorite game in case of actual gameplay, but its just an amazing eldritch artifact that can bring you to actual insanity. This game is like "okay, we take 9 years old childrens and give them millions of dollars to design the game and we didn't cut any of their ideas out"

[@Dreadnote-pf7of]

And yeah. Just a scale of different styles of cards are amazing Big scary dragons, gears-transformers with wobbly eyes, wooden samurais, stuffed toys that could combine with knifes to create horrible monstosities, dinosaurs, TRANSFORMER-DINOSAURS, Golden Lich dude with his band of conquistodors on a search of ethernal life, gem knights that litteraly a gems... Yugioh

[@rinkujoka232]

@@Dreadnote-pf7of of course dont forget the waifu baits......

[@SyxxPunk]

Speaking of art styles, imagine showing someone the art of The Weather Rainbow Canvas, Erebus the Underworld Monarch, and Joyous Melffys, then tell them they're all from the same game.

[@ich3730]

@@SyxxPunk yugioh straight up has trains as an archetype. Not magical trains, not cyberpunk machines. Just literal trains.

[@primir4690]

@@ich3730 Train best deck

[@steveaugust7797]

I love it when players from other card games see some of the Yu-Gi-Oh cards and just how busted they are

[@danny1ft1]

I love when he discovers Endymion and Instantly becomes a yugi player and chooses to forget how to read, he'll be a pro in no time.

[@devincarter8155]

to be fair on the card text length issue, alot of text on cards are self limiting rules text to keep the cards from getting broken and not really effects of the card. for instance "this effect of this card can only be used once per turn" accounts for at least one line on every card

[@eligiobuscema6829]

yeah, in reallity most cards just have one or two pretty simple effects in practice but cause they are very specific in activation conditions and limitations the text goes pretty wide.

[@MrTuas]

@@eligiobuscema6829 Not even mentioning that sometimes a different word or a punctuation might mean the card will fail to activate in time and lose its effect, the length is just there because unlike hearthstone it needs to be exact.

[@jdamourep]

Also, yugioh tcg refuses to adopt the ocg card text to separate the effects my numbers as a way of making it more digestible.

[@legeul]

@@jdamourep Not like they can adopt that text style, JP text is shorter which lets them write more stuff with less space, however the TCG can't afford that, so there's just not enough space in the text box to be able to split the card effects like the OCG, atleast without making the text even smaller than it already is.

[@Partypoopersgroup]

Finally! Yugioh is so different from most other card games Rarran and other people like him play. Considering Hearthstone, Magic, and Runeterra aren't that different really. Its nice to see something like this.

[@dubstepbanane6277]

I mostly play Magic and I was pretty spot on about the Yugioh cards, I think Magic is closer to Yugioh than you might think. Not in powerlevel, but in mechanics

[@Partypoopersgroup]

@@dubstepbanane6277 Maybe closer then one might expect, what with certain effects seemingly universally being good (Using the graveyard for example) but its more how the game itself is played that makes Yugioh unique compared to the Mana TCGs.

[@ducphongtrinh1065]

@@dubstepbanane6277 fun fact: the original name of duel monsters game in yugioh manga is Magic and Wizards. the author of yugioh is kinda try to make a clone of MTG for a small battle in manga, which is pretty famous in that time, but end up become a big game on it own. Anyway, MTG is kinda original TCG of every modern TCG game, so every tcg is kinda look like MTG in someway.

[@FrozenLavaDragonProd]

Magic and Hearthstone are actually very different.

[@camael4209]

I mainly play mtg and some hearthstone. I think I guessed almost all cards correctly. Mtg looks a lot like Yugioh in that you have instant speed cards which you can play in an opponents turn. Mtg also hs cards with wayyyy too much text on them xD

[@CoppermineTypeK]

I love videos like this honestly, as a yugioh, it’s great getting to see other peoples reactions to how fucked our game can be

[@rakino4418]

Yu Gi Oh seems really *interesting*. Is it fun?

[@TeaRektum]

@@rakino4418 morden yugioh revolves around stopping your opponent from making their plays. There are alot of effects that are about negating effects going off. Its basically counter wars until one player runs out of plays and you attack for a win. Also combos to setup your board can require you playing like 10 cards or more in a single turn so ot can be a bit tedious for both players specially on online emulators of the game where each card activation has its own animation when you play the card. The game is incredibly fast nowadays as in it can end on turn 2 or 3 because the player going 1st made an invencible board and you couldnt stop them with handtraps or the going 2nd player wins by breaking the board and summon their own invencible board to attack for game. So basically. It can sometimes feel like a frustrating game because you drew a bad hand and are doomed from the start.

[@skeletonwar4445]

@@rakino4418 It's pretty fun unless one is a sore loser. Cause there's a decent amount of sacky cards where you just go "Oh of course my opponent drew [x] in their opening hand!" and lose to it.

[@rakkis1576]

@@rakino4418 Very. Especially if you are more focused on playing casually with friends instead of trying to be competitive.

[@darkira2129]

@@rakino4418 It's ridiculous, this game have kaiju, star wars, gladiators, superhero, fantasy stuff, waifus... but the competitive world is very toxic.

[@dracoblizzard7944]

This was my favorite one of these yet. I think the funniest part was Rarran evaluating the cards without considering that 90% of decks are combo decks and a turn 1 board looks like a meme combo deck in HS does if that meme deck also put 5 counter spells into play that they could choose when to activate. It was funny to see him slowly work it out over time. I would love to see him react to a Yugioh match between 2 combo decks just to see how confused he gets

[@Chubbajawa]

"There's no trap cards in Hearthstone." Secrets : "Am I a joke to you?"

[@WavemasterAshi]

Hearthstone player: "Can you believe my opponent found turn 5 lethal?? This is bullshit!" YGO player: "Turn 5 lethal?? Why is this so slow?" Hearthstone player: "Why is it so pricy to build a HS deck!!" YGO player: "...build a DECK? I paid that much for just a set of 1 staple card!"

[@rinkujoka232]

so true......

[@Partypoopersgroup]

Yugioh gets to the point. Theres no beating around the bush, we just diving in.

[@paytonyoder1260]

Sometimes it’s fun to get a turn 2 win by simply rendering your opponent’s effect useless.

[@Hawko1313]

And it will be power crept by the next set. Yu-Gi-Oh proves there’s no limits

[@GaussianEntity]

Hearthstone players: "Why do I have to pay about 1000 dollars yearly just to remain relevant in Standard???" Yugioh players: "I paid that much for a top of the line meta deck...(banlist drops) aaaaaaand it's gone."

[@thevarva1520]

"good stats...for the cost" *looks up and smirks* thanks Rarran, I can't stop laughing now

[@mw2zorzest]

I'm actually surprised at how well Rarran grasped some of the mechanics of yugioh like handtraps, Yugioh is so different to other card games, because there's no build-up mechanic when it comes to resources, it's always an all-out brawl from the start, so I figured this would be hard and Stevie didn't disappoint.

[@r3zaful]

And tcg and ocg are different as well.

[@HaydenX]

Back in the early days, when tributes were relevant, every normal summon was a resource to consume.

[@mw2zorzest]

@@HaydenX to be fair, that's still kind of the case, but every resource you play also gives you more resources, so it snowballs and the only way to stop it is handtraps.

[@r3zaful]

@@mw2zorzest normal summon barrier statue set 4 pass.dek

[@Nocturne989]

@@HaydenX Tribute summoning wasn't ever competitively relevant until Monarchs, conveniently when a monster that could infinitely bring itself back showed up. Tributing for a Blue Eyes was bad in LoB too, Summoned Skull and Raigeki and CoH existed.

[@jayd.doubledubs]

Rarran reasoned really well with Pot of Desires and Exodia after flopping Painful Choice; I'm actually really impressed with his logic!

[@FirebirdPrince]

Yup. Even for his wrong answers, some of his analysis was pretty decent with the information he has. Like Chaos Max purely look good on paper, with limited information.

[@kmjohnny]

Pot of Greed would've been an interesting choice for this. A lot of YGO players also don't know what it does.

[@cosmoreverb3943]

Pot of Greed? What does that do?

[@vivinestian]

@@cosmoreverb3943 you draw 2 cards, thats it and as far as i know pro play banned pot of greed

[@t-yu]

So you're saying Pot of Greed lets you draw two cards from your deck? I'm a little confused maybe you can go a bit more in detail.

[@cosmoreverb3943]

@@t-yu If I'm understanding what I've been told correctly, Pot of Greed allows you to draw two cards from your deck and add them to your hand. I might be missing something though

[@t-yu]

@@cosmoreverb3943 Wait, so if I activate Pot of Greed, then I can draw 2 cards from my deck and put them in my hand? That's some pretty complex stuff but I like it

[@Dainurian]

This was very interesting, what my tiny brain got out of this is that there seems to be a lot more value in locking your opponent out of doing stuff in Yu-Gi-Oh, while HS is more about rushing towards your own win condition. Probably because you can actually play this type of card reactively on their turn, which is something HS just can't do.

[@sadrobot5501]

Perfect description of modern Yugioh

[@GaussianEntity]

Funnily enough, Hearthstone has started to move in this direction with decks like Secret Mage or cards like Blademaster Okani

[@sadrobot5501]

@@GaussianEntity But is just a piece of this kind of interaction. In Yugioh, viable and/or meta decks either setup many pieces that can negate/interact with stuff in the form of monsters after a freaking long combo // Do so with Spells and/or Traps in a less explosive, more control oriented deck // Setup a single broken floodgate that locks up your opponent // Summon an extremy powerful boss monster that, well supported, can win the game almost by itself. Though you are not completely wrong, is a step in said direction.

[@GaussianEntity]

@@sadrobot5501 Yeah I'm aware. I was trying to keep it simple lol

[@Sad-Lesbian]

Pretty much yeah. The majority of Yugioh decks aim to create a near unbreakable board on turn 1 so that your opponent can't do anything. There are of course exceptions.

[@darkmega97]

Poor Rarran, going from hearthstone where cards have like to lines of text at most to yugioh where cards come with the complete works of dostoyevsky printed on them

[@Gehenna515]

I think that the biggest thing that is hard to understand about yugioh is just how fast it actually is. Like, it's not at all unheard of for a player to draw their entire deck on their first turn, that is the kind of speed that the games can reach.

[@Lobohobo]

Watching this video and the other ones makes me realize how complicated Yu-Gi-Oh is compared to the other TCG's. It also made me realize how much text we have on the cards. I played most TCG's but I grew up with Yu-Gi-Oh, so the game feels natural to me. I think it's pretty much impossible to grade Yu-Gi-Oh cards without an understanding of the game and it's flow. The Extra Deck and Links alone make it way too hard to understand for an outsider I would say. Also, that the game is usually 2 turns or at least less than 5, should be emphasized a LOT. For cards like Time Seal it's even more important. Overall I learned a lot about Yu-Gi-Oh and it's relationship to other TCG's through this video.

[@TGPDrunknHick]

recently started playing magic with some friends and they all pretty much get it. trying to explain yu gi oh makes me sound like a madman. especially because I basically have to preface that there's an entirely new card type every time they make a new anime.

[@NicholasKratzer]

So I play MTG, know a tiny bit about Hearthstone, and watched Yu-Gi-Oh when it was new as a kid. This video was FASCINATING to watch as a result. I feel I learned a ton about the play style and complexity of both Hearthstone and Yu-Gi-Oh, and also gained greater appreciation for MTG's design. Just learning that Yu-Gi-Oh doesn't have a mana equivalent and Hearthstone doesn't have a graveyard gave me a solid idea of the basic meta of both games.

[@jasonlu9562]

"Slightly faster" *Looking at my last five match end on turn 2＊ "Yeah I see nothing wrong with that statement"

[@calebrowe8572]

I need a part two. Or a how well do you know Yu-Gi-Oh. This was amazing

[@TooMuchDad]

Heyyy glad to see you do Yu-Gi-Oh! again, and finally with a player! 😄

[@TeaRektum]

I wish stevie would show him rhongo, lighting storm, crooked cook and kaijus.

[@AnRuixuan]

Rhongo and Crooked Cook are annoying because of other cards that enable them to be stupid. Rarran would have no idea that the enabler cards exist, but it would be funny to sneak in Gossip Shadow at the beginning, and then later on in the video show him Rhongo and see if he remembers and can make the connection lol

[@rudyramadhana4127]

Zeus....

[@StargazerZ99]

I would LOVE to see another segment with you both looking over more cards in the game~ I'd love to see your reaction to cards like "Number 86: Heroic Champion - Rhongomyniad", or as we in the community like to nickname him, "Rhongo Bongo"~ Lol. Same with reactions to a lot of Six Samurai cards; especially the Link Monster.

[@Shiftinggers]

Or the VFD

[@Forse702]

Rhongo would be funny because TCG players can't evaluate it correctly either.

[@StargazerZ99]

@@Forse702 How so exactly?

[@ariq7999]

Effect card in Yu-Gi-Oh single handedly make this video long. I hope this series continues like do you know hearthstone series

[@cragl3yman343]

Finally doing this Yugioh thing with an actual person this time and now seeing why YGO is such a WHOLE different beast of a game.

[@subject1449]

My thought before watching the actual guessing and seeing rarrans experience is that it will basically be impossible to accurately guess. Yugioh is too much of a crapshoot dependent on archetype Edit : and he gets hit with painful choice first

[@Y0G0FU]

Didnt finish the Video but he should hit him with Endymion :P Just to see him wrap his brain around the Essay of a card Text hehe

[@luminous3558]

Which is why stevie generally stayed away from archetypal cards. Just imagine someone having to evaluate Nadir Servant without having contextual knowledge of what dogmatika cards do or what monsters in the extra deck like being send to grave. Or showing someone Ratpier without context of zoodiac XYZs, zeus, fusion sub combo and a general understanding of why the deck is completely nuts.

[@Y0G0FU]

@@luminous3558 ye Stevie used rather generic cards. Also he actually showed him Endymion xD Amazing reaction

[@MSTTV]

Stevie's judgment on cards, either Great cards or Trash. If it falls under the tech category it was bad, if it can be used in a generic scenario its good. I feel like 1 thing to make Rarran not so baited by cards is to give him 1 key piece of information: "Cards themselves ARE the resource mechanic" then it would be a bit more fair to analyze an effect towards that one statement.

[@mutantmagnet]

How do yugioh players rate cards in the hand vs graveyard vs extra deck? What I'm getting here is as a runeterra player we can carry over unused mana as spell only mana. This effect makes expensive spell cards more justifiable because slow spells can be played earlier than usual (for not playing a unit and establishing board presence) and fast spells can help you defend better against the opposing player's open attacks. While it is a nice compensation system for playing unit mana efficiently you usually are better off spending mana as early and as efficiently as possible on units such that regular mana is viewed as more valuable than spell mana.

[@DM-Oz]

i mean, cards are resource in every card game, so it should go unspoken, the only difference yugioh is the lack of more limiting resources.

[@OyVeey]

@@mutantmagnet "it depends on the archetype" is a cop-out answer, but, well. It really does depend on the archetype. Infernity's gimmick is that you can't activate their effects unless your hand is empty. Metaphys and Gren Maju are based around banishing their own cards. Control Eldlich doesn't really care about the extra deck so they run Pot of Extravagance, which banishes it for draws. Archetypes that run That Grass Looks Greener want to dump their whole deck to grave SO badly that they'll banish their entire hand with Left Arm Offering just for a chance to resolve Grass. On the other hand, Endymion doesn't care about the graveyard at all, so they can run cards like Necrovalley which lock both players out of graveyard effects. It's really hard to generalize about YGO because decks have such distinct gimmicks.

[@hinamiravenroot7162]

This reminds me of the time I explained Yugioh to my friend who's a Hearthstone diehard: "Ok imagine Hearthstone but all minions have Charge and Taunt and all cards in the game cost 0 mana" "That sounds horribly explosive! Wouldn't the side with more cards always win?" "Exactly"

[@surehit2496]

Hint into reading Yu-gi-oh cards: read it by parts, it helps A LOT. Nice vid!

[@TrixyTrixter]

I feel like Blue eyes were miss explained to Rarran. From how he spoke it sounded like he thought the monsters attack is doubled when it attacks a defence monster. rather than just it deals damage when attacking defence monsters and that damage is doubled.

[@findout-YGO]

he should've said chaos max has trample but also doubles the trample damage

[@Wolfkey13]

He did say that was a simple way to understand the card. Emphasis on SIMPLE

[@flowmotionyt8]

Here's the thing about Waking the Dragon, especially in Master Duel: If I'm running 3 copies of this card and play them all face-down, people use Harpie's Feather Duster on the first turn and destroy all my face-downs. If I play this in a Phantom Knights deck where people are always gonna be wary of my traps and want to destroy them, this might be the best card to use to get them off your back.

[@shasan2393]

It seems stevie is talking about cards based on tcg. Waking the dragon is much better in a best of 1 format like masterduel because many decks have spell/trap removal in main deck due to prevalence of so many floodgates traps (which again are better in a best of 1), and play that removal blindly. In tcg with best of 3, you can use your side deck for tech options like floodgates or spell/trap removal.

[@bensmith7964]

Ppl always scared of trap cards, they assuming imperm or called by the grave, it’s totally worth the gamble

[@waves5249]

I've been looking for this type of content for a while, and this is probably the best one I've seen. You have experience in card games, there's another person who can explain the card, and the cards shown are actually relevant or are great discussion points. Would definitely want more of these Edit: suggestion for the next episode: have stevie show you red-eyes dark dragoon and destiny hero destroy phoenix enforcer side by side and you have to guess which one is meta defining in the TCG and which one is mid at best

[@carstan62]

I feel like showing Maxx C after showing some monsters that have special summon effects would have been a more fair way to introduce the card. That would have given him some context in how valuable special summoning is without having to decide how much you want to tell him.

[@Milktube]

He already understands that Pot of Greed is crazy overpowered for just +1 draw, and that Pot of Desire is even worth losing 10 cards for +1 draw, but when evaluating a card that will gradually give you +4 draws or force your opponent to not be able to special summon monsters he decided not so good XD. That was his error, he had the understanding and context already.

[@carstan62]

@Milktube By that logic, you should think a Maxx C that draws when your opponent activates a trap effect is good. But it wouldn't be good enough to main deck because traps are far less common. THAT is the context he was missing. He was looking at it from a perspective similar to what would be accurate for the time when the card was printed. When Maxx C came out, it was a side deck card because a decent number of decks would rarely special summon or do like 1 per turn.

[@mattglass9782]

Loved hearing the bit about yata-lock, I still remember that 15 years later it had to be banned because it was so annoying to play against and just locking your opponent out, when he first said it was bad I started yelling IT HAD TO BE BANNED! then he clarified it was good in the past :D

[@Plonom]

Rarran should really look at some Yu-Gi-Oh Combos and just be flabbergasted

[@chandgrit]

He should watch the lt eddy video on yugioh if he hasn't already.

[@Grayewick]

table 500 lol

[@Karanthaneos]

As someone who's played a bunch of card games, including Yugioh, the only reason I keep playing Yugioh from time to time is because I've spent so much time learning the rules I'm far too deep and invested too much time to let it go to waste. I've even learned how missing the timing works, because in Yugioh there are instant effects that if not triggered properly can miss their activation windows on the stack. Also the Endymion monster he showed you as an example for a long card is kind of tricky because it's literally the card with the most amount of text in the whole game.

[@jacobmonks3722]

Missing timing is one of the stupidest rules I've seen in any card game. And Konami seems to agree, because they seem to be avoiding printing new cards that have abilities that can miss timing for a good few years.

[@r3zaful]

@@jacobmonks3722 ash blossom/haru urara can miss timing lmao. And tribrigade is an archetype that built around chain order to play around missing the timing

[@thatdidact7893]

@@r3zaful Chain blocking and missing the timing are two distinct gameplay features. Chain blocking, like what Tri-Brigade does, relies on the rule that a quick effect that activates in response to another card can only be chained in response to the most recent effect in the current chain. If a player's Sangan and Witch of the Black Forest trigger simultaneously, that player can choose in which order the effects are placed on the chain, and their opponent could only activate Ash Blossom & Joyous Spring to negate the highest chain link effect; the other one is insulated. Missing the timing is a different (and much dumber) event, where a card that has an optional trigger effect that activates "when" something happens as opposed to "if" something happens is only allowed to activate its effect if the action that would trigger it is the most recent thing to happen. If a Dupe Frog on the field is destroyed by a card effect activated as Chain Link 3, Dupe Frog "misses the timing" because other effects are being resolved in between its destruction and an open game state where its trigger effect can be activated.

[@thewanderingmistnull2451]

@@jacobmonks3722 Not true. The wording in the TCG has merely changed to make it obvious when it is possible to miss the timing. Can't miss timing: If X, you can Y OR When X, then Y Can miss timing: When X, you can Y

[@jacobmonks3722]

@@thewanderingmistnull2451 Well obviously if you know the rules it's easy to understand, but that doesn't mean it's intuitive or good game design. Missing timing is not something I would expect ANYBODY to figure out by themselves, it's literally not even covered in the rulebook they give out with Structure Decks. And even after knowing what it is, it still feels like it flies in the face of the design of the cards. Like it was never meant to be a thing until they just decided it was, and it literally only exists to make certain effects pretty much obsolete. You can't convince me that they came up with this rule for better game balancing or some BS like that. With the way they've been designing cards, balance was never a concern.

[@littlered6340]

🤣 The idea of "running" special summons like that isn't just default at this point, had me cracking up.

[@Jayngfet]

I remember being a kid in the early/mid 2000's. Special Summoning was pretty common even then. Archtypes weren't as dominant a thing and play wasn't AS common but you would still typically gun for your fusions or rituals or else abuse spell and trap cards to do it.

[@andrewpaul8732]

"this one card draws you 5 because your graveyard is a second hand" "yea idk seems kinda mid" *surprised picachu face*

[@andrewpaul8732]

Entomb is a mtg card that puts ONE card into your graveyard and its $30 right now after reprints.

[@Riwul]

STEVIE! I was suggesting to try this with some more yugioh cards aswell a while back and my first thoughts where him and farfa. really glad to see you having to read cards. Youre already 10 steps ahead most people at regional levels now. Farfa had a similar show a while back thats why i thought he wouldve been perfect but amazing content nontheless from both stevie and you rarran

[@LemonGingerHoney]

I know this is an old video, but "Painful Choice" is something that Ressurection Priest would love to use. Imagine summoning, silencing and killing your "Convincing Infiltrator" right away.

[@ecMonify]

old video? it's literally brand new :P

[@LemonGingerHoney]

@@ecMonify I could swear it showed January 26

[@xyzen9673]

@@LemonGingerHoney my guy you saw the letter J and assumed its January

[@kingofthejungle5338]

I still make comments on 3+-year-old videos dawg, you're good

[@mooncalf_4534]

@@ecMonify It's been out for hours! The meta has changed!

[@ducphongtrinh1065]

when he said painful choice is a bad card, i knew this video is a treat.

[@AnthonyScolaro5]

I haven't played hearthstone in years and I've never played yugioh. Still a great vid. Really enjoy the content, keep it up Rarran!

[@Mech299]

The hilarious thing about Waking the Dragon that he never mentioned is that because the card doesn't treat the monster you summon as an "Inherent" special summon, then that means because it wasn't summoned from the extra deck properly, you can't revive it afterwards. The moment it's gone from the field, you can't touch it again unless you find a way to return it to the "hand"(Extra Deck) so it may as well be banished face down unless it has graveyard effects.

[@hermiona1147]

I really appreciate how easy to understand HS card text is after this

[@beauvoirferril]

_"YuGiOh's a light-speed facade of what it once was."_ You couldn't be any more right.

[@slippers8000]

Yugioh is so different that this was very interesting, would love another one.

[@Nocturne989]

One of the big factors that makes games like Magic and Runeterra and Hearthstone similar and makes this analysis particularly interesting (other than best boi Stevie) is that YGO, unlike these games, is what I'd describe as "intrinsically resource driven". MtG/HS have an "extrinsic resource" that exists in and of itself just to be spend to do stuff with, be it a card in the form of a land or a mana crystal that goes up each turn. YGO, on the other hand, has no real extrinsic resource that exists purely to be used as one; the things you use as resources are other intrinsic aspects of the rules and the deck and board themselves; such as life, card advantage, board advantage, grave advantage, information advantage, etc. Its this aspect of YGO that honestly makes it so unique since damn near every other major TCG has extrinsic resource management baked in.

[@thewanderingmistnull2451]

Magic also rotates cards out whereas with Yu-Gi-Oh! all cards are always allowed other than the Forbidden List.

[@raymondvanderbunt6402]

Imagine the reaction of a veteran Magic player sitting down and watching Zoodiacs or even Cyber Dragons in action. With a properly built Yu-Gi-Oh! deck and the right hand combos, it becomes easy to pull out the big guns with just 2 or 3 cards.

[@magicggst]

2 or 3 cards? You’re really underselling Yugioh.

[@docturkleton4777]

finally a yugioh episode. love to see it. And with stevie no less

[@Puddincess]

would love to see a part 2 on this at some point. very interesting to see this from the other direction for once (as a yugioh player)

[@danieltaylor4185]

"There is no mana. There are no lands. Just pure gas." - The best summary of Yugioh's pacing I've ever heard. And not at all coincidentally, probably the biggest reason that the game is a nightmare to balance. It turns out, when you have virtually no restrictions, the game becomes really obnoxious with combos really fast.

[@linvega671]

Yeah I think having no set rotation also speeds up power creep but no mana mechanic is the worst offender for making the game hard to balance

[@danieltaylor4185]

@@linvega671 Yeah, there's a lot of other problems, but something I noticed when I switched from Yugioh to other games is this. I think that you can have a game that restricts you at the beginning of the game without making the game feel slow, even compared to Yugioh. Having some time to give both players a chance to actually do something can really act as a bit of a buffer for both players to work with to counter bad luck, or take the edge off of decks that might not be as fast or consistent as the opposing deck. I think Vanguard actually did this quite well, where if your deck build was really bad you'd still lose, but there were a lot of ways that you could play through a bricky hand or keep your opponent at bay to buy yourself time, without your opponent feeling totally restricted like with Mystic Mine or floodgate cards. Also, limiting deck building options is something that Yugioh should do more often. Archetypes do this to an extent, but having no limits on card combinations sometimes allows for wacky things to happen that clearly weren't intended and can be broken as all get-out. I remember Dino-Rabbit being pretty strong back when someone put it together back in the day. Though, I'm not sure how they'd do that this late into the game's lifecylcle. They can't just retroactively add something like the hero system in Hearthstone or something. Dino-rabbit is just one example, but at any given time, the balance team could miss some interaction on a card that's fairly generic and it could lead to massive swings in balance that were pretty much impossible to account for.

[@ReikokuXTaifuu]

I haven't played Yugioh in YEARS, but this video's premise intrigued me so I wanted to watch it. Man... I remember being in middle school and pissing off my friends in casual games with Painful Choice, Exodia, and stuff like Backup Soldier. Good times. I miss old school yugioh. I was never really big into competitive events aside from the weekly leagues at Toys R Us and stuff, but building dumb casual decks for kitchen table games was always a blast.

[@Alena_Sneaky]

“So this is basically Exodia!” The purest reaction to Chaos Max ever 🤣🤣🤣

[@lollojojjo6612]

For the hs player who don't know how fast is yu gi oh is right now: imagine like guy that finish his turn 1 with 3 okani and 1 counterspell. Yes, like that

[@fofolacosa123]

And a cthun ready to destroy you on their next turn

[@r3zaful]

27:07 bruh Steve, you never feel the pain of someone summon last warrior from another planet.

[@prakajr2]

Rarren was completely right about Mystic Mine. By itself Mystic is niche and can be outed by many spell and trap cards. What makes Mystic Mine so powerful are the MANY cards that help you search and protect it. Stun your opponent by using counter traps and "field barrier" to protect mystic. Add to that cards that allow you to see and manipulate your opponent's draw and you can see how frustratingly powerful it can be.

[@rifarira9160]

i''d say its depends on the meta. When the meta is combo heavy and control is seeing less play than this card is really good, because people usually only prepare for the top dog instead of long unheard card/deck.

[@Greg_Ulmer]

As a magic player, I got most of these right. That thunder dragon card specifically gave me major companion vibes. Build your deck in a certain way and you get access to a free resource from outside the game. Busted!

[@brendanreamer4507]

Been watching a bunch of these. One thing that I don't know if other TCG players realize is that if there was a "Pot of" spell that said "Shoot yourself in the foot then draw two" it'd be run at 3 in every deck.

[@xyzen9673]

Fun fact: but draw 2 is one of the best kinds of effect in Yu-Gi-Oh... No matter how bad the restrictions are, it would still see decent play.

[@jdrukman]

Is that because you can immediately play the two drawn cards? Draw 2 in HS is nice but you probably don’t have the mana for them on the same turn that you draw them.

[@chincrimson3970]

@@jdrukman Yes you can immediately play those 2 cards you draw unless they have some kind of restricting effects like "can only be activated once per turn"

[@xyzen9673]

@@jdrukman the thing about Yu-Gi-Oh is drawing is by far yhe best effect in a vacuum... Since you dont have to worry about resources, so you not only thin out your deck to get more possible combo pieces, but also get more possible negates or answers to your opponents cards

[@eugenideddis]

Draw 1 is a good effect, Upstart Goblin is still limited

[@overthemoon34]

@@eugenideddis Purely because if you play 3 of them in a deck, you're essentially playing with a 37 card deck instead of a 40 card deck.

[@RoseDragonX]

26:05 people play this card in control decks (mostly in the side) for games 2 or 3 as a counter to lightning storm or feather duster so it isn't miserable as you said. it isn't the best card in the game by far but It is average as it can punish board clears pretty well and if they don't clear the backrow you can play with your other traps

[@charlesbecker9590]

I loved this as some one learning Yugioh. We need to see more!

[@H8B7L]

Hearing "Yata Garasu is garbage" is pretty funny when you played against it during the early days.

[@anonymousmonkey9491]

16:10 that moment when he was really holding back on preaching to him about the monstrosity that is Maxx C.

[@graemetang4173]

Describing Yu-Gi-Oh as having "no resource system" is a little weird. My understanding is that because they don't have a MANA system, they turned EVERYTHING else into a resource. Notably, how often the game uses cards in hand/deck/extra deck/graveyard or lifepoints as resources.

[@Sad-Lesbian]

It's why card advantage is so extremely important in Yugioh. The only real resources you have are the cards you have, so even having access to 1 card more than your opponent is HUGE

[@syrelian]

True, but the thing is, none of those(except for Lifepoints) are codified resources, they're defined as resources entirely by the fact that a card text says to use them as such, unlike MTG or HS where Mana is an inherent resource that is just part of card layout rather than something the card needs to state is to be used as a resource, the closest you get is Level and its relation to Tribute Summoning as a game-defined resource interaction

[@wdililn]

But “cards in hand/etc” and “life” are resources used in every other card game too lol

[@Danothyus1]

i haven't played yu-gi-oh in a long while, but there is one thing i would like to add. The thing about the graveyard being basically a second hand is true, but it is also true to remember that to certain decks, banishing cards could count as well as a third hand. Reason why some cards now banish cards face-down, because those are definetly impossible to interact with. Also, i think Stevie should had told Rarran about the extra deck, because the existence of the extra deck allow for cards that just send stuff to the graveyard as a cost is even better because your true win cons are not in the deck, but the extra deck.

[@thewanderingmistnull2451]

Not quite. It just means they can't activate their own effects if they've got something they can do while banished. Other cards can still touch them no problem (as far as I can tell from the wiki anyway, and if not, it's only _for now_).

[@matthewpopow6647]

"Its so funny how you link me this Huge Dragon then I get this little squirrel girl..." Hey, don't diss the Squirrel Girl she beat up Thanos.

[@galelululu]

my favourite comment in any yugioh video ever is “I know the big meme is that yugioh players don’t read the cards, but like.. would you? would you read this for ten billion dollars.” and then it just flashes a pretty average length yet high complexity card text on screen and my eyes glaze over

[@doctorbleh4110]

I haven't had this much fun watching a youtube video in ages. As a yugioh nerd, its so fun seeing an experienced player of a different card game rack there brain at some of the card effects in yugioh.