Rated maillon rapide aluminum vs steel quicklinks. Can we use these climbing and slacklining?

[@HowNOT2]

Check out our new store! hownot2.store/

[@davidmartin8403]

Tip: Use a 2nd Maillon as a wrench to open the 1st Maillon. Adjust the gap on the 2nd to go across the flats of the nut on the 1st. Then, turn. Something for the mental toolbox and might get you home one day.

[@ruimipa]

really clever

[@Papershields001]

I’m pretty sure that if you fall hard enough exert 65 Kn of force through you harness and into a quick link, you’re gonna be just as dead as if you hit the ground

[@AdventTour_net]

With every fall over 6kn on static connectors you can kinda expect some injury from the shock alone. This js why industrial shock absorbers need to reduce the forces to 6kn. With a normal sports-harness and a fall on static connectors you can expect your hip/back to break even way before you reach the 22kn strength to break any of your climbing gear. So I guess what I am saying is, do not take factor 2 Falls on static connectors. Either use dynamic connectors or shock absorbers in a scenario where factor 2 is unavoidable.

[@berryreading4809]

Ryan's idea of a cyclic load test machine setup is actually just pushing poor Bobby off the drop tower with a backup until the gear on the test line fails 😂 although Bobby's MBS has already proven sufficient not to even require a backup line 🤣👍

[@nolotengomiedo]

I love your testing! When you swapped out the soft shackle for a steel quicklink in the second pull, I think you inadvertently changed the parameters of the experiment. The soft shackle can (and must!) apply an inward radial force where it is in contact with the aluminum surface, but the steel quicklink cannot because it does not wrap around the aluminum. This radial force squeezes and deforms and no doubt weakens the aluminum in addition to the stress resulting from the applied tension. It doesn't necessarily mean the squeezed area becomes the weakest point on the object being pulled, but it can. Some years ago I break-tested a circular aluminum ring that arborists use, rated at 20 kN. Unfortunately the inner diameter was only about 1.25 inches, and I couldn't fit two steel shackle pins into the opening for the pull, and replaced one of them with an amsteel loop girth-hitched into the ring. I was surprised when the ring broke right under the amsteel at about 12 kN. Careful inspection of the break showed just a very shallow dent where the steel shackle had been, but very obvious twisting and crushing where the girth hitch had been. Even the contours of the girth hitch could be made out imprinted into the metal! I think a circular ring is a shape vulnerable to weakening by any kind of rope connection, but that it is rarely a practical concern. I can't wait to see your upcoming drop tests!

[@markifi]

oh, man, i've been using a girth hitch-ed 9mm sling on my kong kisa via-ferrata break for fifteen years. it's a thin aluminium plate. i've ordered some parts to swap that out for a steel connection. thanks.

[@tommuhlemanjr.3871]

So cool Ryan! Sometimes hitting the LIKE button just isn’t good enough, so I am going to send more money!

[@nn2s2u]

Aluminum wears through a lot faster, especially with the wet ropes and dirt found in canyoneering.

[@gmancolo]

And cave croissants.

[@bullfrogboss8008]

Quick links are usually meant to be used just once, aren't they?

[@rasenmaher9629]

Many people use mallons as bail biners so that would be a weightsaving if your always carrying one.

[@kaimcguire5086]

Don’t do this unless it’s at an anchor. Maillons are hard to impossible to remove on lead and make clipping a bolt more difficult, and can actually cause carabiners to fail way below MBS due to what is effectively loading over an edge.

[@n4boards144]

@@kaimcguire5086 so clip behind the maillon

[@scottsinner1786]

You're not saving weight if you're carrying something you don't need. Just leave a biner for so many reasons.

[@scottsinner1786]

@@n4boards144 No, stop doing this, please. It's antiquated.

[@numbers1606]

I never go climbing without quicklinks and rappel rings. Doesn't matter if it's a 5.6 in the middle of the city or a 2 day hike 5.14a, with my luck the 10mm rappel rings will be on their last 2mm. I'd rather inject $15 into the community than start rapping off hangers. At least when people leave links behind I can reuse, instead of another like-new BD biner on the second bolt. No shame to people punching above their weight, but daddy racks photons.

[@johnnyrodeck]

Crazy powerful break, I even flinched at the first sound of it breaking. Good Stuff

[@A-Randomer]

As others have posted they are very common for industrial work in Europe. I think of the Aluminium ones as more of a harness to equipment connector rather than at the anchor point. Mostly I've seen them used as a semi permanent attachment to harnesses now people are moving towards using things like Progress Adjust-I and similar instead of cows-tails. Needing a spanner or another Maillon to remove them is a good thing in this context. Its not something that is removed apart from inspection on the ground. They make a very good connector is your load has a potential to try and move round the connector whilst being much cheaper than circular carabiners like the ring style ones. Weirdly the wear against steel is a good thing for a few users. It means the connector wears rather than the steel D-ring on your harness which can't be replaced. Also using the steel ones is pointless when the D-ring on your harness will fail before them. The triangular ones can be good for temporary anchors and load sharing.

[@jeffreycheshire6735]

Back in the 80's, I used 'maillons' for caving gear, along with both steel and alloy carabiners. Often the maillons were more convenient due to size and weight, and used on gear that rarely needed removing. e.g. footloops on an ascender. Also, not the case for the harness I used, but some of the common harnesses used for caving were basically legloops and a belt which came together at 2 points and were fastened with a large 10mm 'maillon', usually in a 'D' shape or sometimes a delta, (triangular) shape, also handy for connecting tape /webbing to a single fixing like a carabiner.

[@steffanpaul9566]

It's the same now

[@jaredanderson2009]

Called it! Nailed the poll you posted. Usually it’s about twice what it’s rated for

[@marcondespaulo]

I got used to the steel ones when spelunking. Used them in place of 'biners to attach ascenders and descenders to harness. I also wonder about the hysteresis effect of loading the quick link to 48kN, then unloading, to loading to break at 52. A single cycle would be preferred. Interesting to see thread stripping in the steel maillon. Perhaps a different thread (deeper?) could improve that a bit. Not sure, though, my days of machine design are long forgotten.

[@briancherry8337]

Great episode. That could be a cool project to make a cyclic load tester.

[@bonefishboards]

I see lead rope solo device attachment with these things. Use two on my Silent Partner. But seems like a wrench/pliers will be needed.

[@YannCamusBlissClimbing]

I like 2 of the Metolius Bravo Lockers. They are small and light. Problem is they require massive amounts of turns to lock entirely (but they feel more secure thanks to that...). I guess a quick link would need many turns to lock too so... Your choice in the end! Let me know what you end up liking the best!

[@peterlansdale1793]

Never heard of these, seems like a cool option for bailing

[@jonflannery8984]

Nice! Informative as always. I carry a steel quick link as a piece of bailout gear and if you assume it’s the least used piece of gear it would be the heaviest in terms of weight to utilization ratio. Not saying I’ll buy an 8$ aluminum quick link but all together it is food for thought. Thanks for the share.

[@neitzsche5150]

Ryan, Great vid! I'd never heard of aluminum quick links before. Great information!

[@vfnt]

Awesome review and test. Definitely putting one of these on my harness in the future. Now I have a lighter alternative to my 12kN Amazon carabiners I normally use to bail. Also I thought I went to high with 44, but 53 is impressive.

[@vfnt]

Leaving this here, just in case the algorithm likes replies.

[@rickjames8317]

@@vfnt I'll reply to your reply, for the algorithm.

[@vfnt]

@@rickjames8317 Thank you for your reply. Very much appreciated. I hope you have a great day.

[@Ataraxia_Atom]

Wow! My guess was 35kn that is one hell of a safety factor. Thanks for the testing Ryan. 🙏

[@thomasr1051]

this is so cool. Knowledge is power. Power to the people!

[@fredkennedy8435]

Awesome work dude! Your new space is definitely coming together! Love the new data coming out!

[@MrPacobolo]

aluminum directly on a bolt hanger would wear much faster if used repeatedly. On webbing, aok!

[@jakevandecar2921]

Would love to see you break test dynamic anchor systems such as the petzl adjust

[@captianmorg4256]

yes! I was just wondering about this! what a rad video!

[@jfo738]

Will you please test a micro traxion, and water knots used to connect tubular webbing?

[@nathanwallis1112]

In the Uk you can wait for sales and get normal screw gates for the same price as that

[@matthewgough9533]

That was a pretty insane break there.

[@gustavpaul1]

Would love a vid pull testing trad gear in wet stone vs dry

[@thehootfrommissowliy]

I would also love to see this!

[@bobbushcraft5713]

Steel quick links are much better when we talk about friction. The difference between aluminum and steel you can see in cave equipment. Repelling tools has aluminum parts witch wear out very fast. If you use quick links to do repel it is better to use steel. By the way, stainless steel is worse than carbon steel but of course carbon steel corrodes. I waiting for frictions tests... it will be interesting :_)

[@joritschoumans7081]

I woud be very interested in breaktesting cross loaded.

[@stevenoverdevest5324]

You could probably throw some anti seize on the threads to help with the galling issue

[@DeFausti]

Now do one with magnesum and titanum quicklinks :)

[@michalmalicki9613]

Cool video! Al quicklink seems like a possibility for a safe way of building a retreat anchor in the alpine. I had an exchange recently about using wire carabiners. Folks use those as central point in retreat anchors, but i don't feel so comfortable swinging on a rope with a regular (i.e., not screwgate) carabiner. You Americans seem to like to tape the wire carabiners with a sticky tape. Still, the Al quicklink seems to be a safer option. Weight saving is questionable, i guess, as someone here pointed out that you're not reqlly saving weight if you're carrying something you'll not likely to use.

[@zwidel]

I've use an aluminum quicklink to attach a PAS (Purcell Prusik) to my harness for almost a decade now. The small size makes it easy to work around and the weight isn't noticable

[@keilyxbay3816]

to your belay loop or tie in points? what's the advantage over girth hitching like other pas systems?

[@zwidel]

@@keilyxbay3816 metal to belay loop, textiles to hard points. I find the quick link to be less cluttered, plus it's easier to monitor wear since it's moving. Really though, try different things out, be aware of the (dis)advantages, and decide what works best in your system. With most things in climbing there are multiple correct ways and the best way is what you're most comfortable with

[@keilyxbay3816]

@@zwidel Thanks for the reply! Been thinking about trying the Purcell Prusik so I may give the quicklink attachment a try.

[@zwidel]

@@keilyxbay3816 for the Purcell, the biggest plus to me is it's cheap. It has more adjustability than sewn loops within its range, but you can't tie in as short. For specific personal anchor systems, I'm sure there are plenty of people who have written pages contrasting all the options

[@keilyxbay3816]

@@zwidel Indeed. I've been using a nylon runner w/knots which is OK but not super adjustable. The inability to tie in short with the Purcell was one thing that was keeping me from trying it, but I recently saw the suggestion to use a second carabiner to clip back to the belay loop which allows shortening it beyond half its overall length. Does require carrying the second biner but I'm curious to try it, and like you said, it's cheap so not much to lose :)

[@davis_hermes]

I’ve broken a bd magnetron around 30%-40% the mbs

[@Govanification]

My guess is that the much lower rated MBS vs breaking strength is to allow strength reductions over time due to fatigue if these are used in an industrial or rescue application where the loading could reach higher forces than typical climbing applications. Fatigue life on climbing carabiners is less of a concern since we're barely reaching 30% of MBS in rare occasions for a typical wiregate. This also seems to follow the heavily conservative ratings for quicklinks in general, perhaps to encourage people to not rely on a single point for heavy loads.

[@ryanc9432]

Please test cams in wet rock vs dry rock

[@gw5479]

You can use them as a bail out to descend off of so you don't waste a quick draw

[@FalenAnjel2]

Lighter quick links would be great for IRATA users with their cow tails for equipment tie-offs.

[@CanyoneeringUSA]

My Wichard pricelist (2015) has the following "List Prices" - Aluminum 10mm: $ 20.40 Aluminum 10mm PPE: $ 23.80 Galv Steel 8mm: $ 6.00 Galv Steel 8mm PPE: $ 7.10 St Steel 8mm: $ 22.40 St Steel 8mm PPE: $ 23.50 St Steel 10mm: $ 33.60 St Steel 10mm PPE: $ 37.50 These products usually available at a discount somewhere, but for comparison. You can see why using the Galvanized Steel ones is popular.

[@CanyoneeringUSA]

Why would you use Stainless Steel ones? Is there any point? Highlining over a Volcano, perhaps??? ;-)

[@thiagoennes]

that would be great to carry for an emergency rappel from a single hanger.

[@sebastianflynn1746]

Please never ever do this for climbing.

[@iacamigevaerd376]

@@sebastianflynn1746 you should say why otherwise you just sound like a random comment. I'm sure he's meant in a climbing situation

[@christianflinkerbusch7612]

I've had the same thought. 100g less than the steel quicklink is really good.

[@thiagoennes]

@@sebastianflynn1746 In an emergency I'd much rather thread my rope through a quick link for abseiling than the hanger itself. No?

[@andriy.shafran]

What if a climbing harder route you end up in the middle - that would do the job.

[@expierreiment]

Nice! This is good to know.

[@klapiroska4714]

There are some quite nice cyclic load testing machines on the market, that are capable of applying something like 50-100 cycles per second. The downside is that they are probably outside the budget of this channel, and as 50-100 cycles / second is 50-100 Hz, which is a frequency humans can hear, they are quite loud, and you can't really avoid the sound with earplugs etc, speaking from experience (there are custom built sound proofed containers that work though). What you could do, is to make a hydraulic piston based cyclc load testing machine. You'd only need a relatively short piston (unless you're testing ropes), some way to measure force (which you already do), and some really simple control system, that observes the force, and uses that information to control the piston. It could do something like 1 cycle per second, maybe 2. That would be 60 cycles / minute, 600 cycles / 10 minutes, or 3600 cycles / hour. Running tests at a low stress levels gets real slow, boring, and feels awfully like science, but here is an idea: Decide the stress level, no. of cycles to test, and once that's done, use slacksnap to break the test piece and see how much strength it had left. Carabiener could be cycled between 0.5 and 6 kN (you always want to have some tention in the system, and 6kN would be quite a bad whipper) Test run until 300 cycles or failure, which ever comes first (find balance between no. of cycles and time. 300 cycles would be 5 min) If test piece still intact, break it with slack snap and see how it performs after 300 super hard whippers. This way you could do cyclic tests and slacksnap tests at the same time, which would save filming time. The problem is, that if cyclic tests are long, it's really inefficient and slow to film. If the tests are shor(ish) and efficient, setup/start cyclic - setup/run slacksnap - end cyclic - setup/start cyclic - setup/run slacksnap... starts to feel like borin, sciency work.

[@BushCampingTools]

These things are strong s but as u say u always need a wrench to get them undone and that can be a pain- at least for caving i reckon. Plus yeah as others have said: alloys wear fast. Personally I've nevr used them for canyoning or caving, that said LOL, I just bought my first one ever for a caving harness, a Alloy Petzl one but for some crazy reason i'm still going to stick a steel Krab with it LOL.

[@famousaimless2]

Great drive-by tower tease, lol

[@OwThatsMyEye]

I would think the thread galling would be a major issue if it gets shock loaded, I really don't trust aluminum on aluminum threads much.

[@TimWebber]

when we used to rig caves on maillions as they were cheaper than crabs, Aluminium ones didn't rust up and jam like steel

[@jcurtis123456]

ok, novice climber here: my use case might be, carry a couple on my harness routinely and use as leave behind gear for doing a carabiner blocked rappel with pull cord *just in case* we miscalculated length of rope or misread the topo. Light, one time use. Maybe leaving a hazard behind for the next climber?

[@kevinwatson3190]

I use them as a bail biner because they are super light and cheep

[@firsttodothat375]

Great video.

[@gabarsenault5924]

What do yo think ofusing them as permadraw on a sport route. Do you think since aluminum is softer than steel, the coeur would groove into it faster?

[@stefanconstmano3]

Love your video!!!

[@brianacree8810]

I’ve been meaning to suggest this for a while. How about a break test on a decender ring setup in a primitive slack line setup, line grabber...I was slacking that setup 15+ years

[@aron7548]

I only use these to escape routes. If I get stuck and can't move up for some reason (rain, strong wind, ice, exhaustion) then I can rapel from a bolt with this (yeah I know it's a single point but it's only for emergencies) they cost less than carabiners and they are small. I guess Im gonna buy aluminium next time if it doesen't cost much more because the ones I have are super heavy.

[@JippaJ]

Interesting that it's the threads that fail on the steel. Would suggest courser threads would make it even stronger.

[@FishrockFirefly]

Stainless wears on the ropes less if you lower off on climbing, that’s for sure.

[@FishrockFirefly]

Also Aluminum mixed with a stainless hangar is a bad idea long-term for reasons you already know. (Galvanic corrosion)

[@christianfelger187]

Many canyoneers will use rolled aluminum "bail rings" in lesser traveled canyons (especially in the Grand Canyon), or first descents. So, similar to an aluminum Rapide.... not a sustainable option for longer term use. The rope pulling through wears through the aluminum more quickly than S.S. which causes a loss in strength of the ring or rapide. Aluminum carabiners wouldnt work well in place of a rapide because most rigging in canyons require a one-sided block on the rope and you want the smallest opening possible that still fits the rope (7-10mm rapide). Use of a carabiner left in place of a rapide have resulted in multiple fatalities due to the block slipping through the larger opening.

[@Imageloading...]

Ever break test Fusion Climb triple lock carabiners?

[@1STstream]

Can aluminum quicklinks be used as a locking carabiners replacement for the belay loop?

[@Deckzwabber]

The cheapest rated locking carabiner for sale in Europe is 8 euros at Decathlon. About the same as the aluminium maillon rapide... Not sure why I'd ever need one.

[@dragan3290]

I want a dynamometer! Have you got a link please?

[@julianbourdin]

good job 👍!

[@permapunter]

Isnt the real world failure mode for mallions gate open failures ? (would be great to see)

[@toncsiacs3032]

Fascinating

[@hamishlivo]

Awesome!!!!

[@parkervance3574]

The only good reason I can think of to justify the use of steel is that cyclical loading will weaken aluminum but as long as it's below a certain force cyclical loading won't affect steel

[@CanyoneeringUSA]

They cost 3X as much as Steel.

[@floorticket]

Is spanning Yosemite Valley with a high line .... what's the upper limit of a high-line's length?

[@David.Cromer]

There's no limit lol

[@ASR_385]

Is pulling rope through the aluminum vs the steel a factor? Will it become notched and weaker with enough use? Testable with your gear?

[@GodzillaGoesGaga]

How do zinc quicklinks perform ? Supposedly better for ocean area corrosion IIRC.

[@cobraclarke203]

I guessed 35kn. Damn, talk about bomber. Wow.

[@dragan3290]

I smashed the like button

[@50StichesSteel]

Aluminum quicklinks really don't make sense for my uses..The places I would need quicklinks, I wouldn't need a rack full of quicklinks to really care too much about weight. The strength and durability of it means more then the weight savings..I'm sure somebody somewhere must be using a bag full of them to have weight matter more...I get a headache thinking of nicked threads on an aluminum quicklink!

[@redpakiu]

Now you make me curious on the Zinc quicklinks, the 10mm are treated for 3800Lb. I use them to bail, but I've seen them at anchors too. That's only like 11-12kN.

[@HowNOT2]

Many quiklinks are rated with a WLL (working load limit) not a MBS (minimum breaking strength). The WLL is often only a fifth of the MBS as it is meant to represent the load the item can take over and over again without damage not the ultimate breaking strength. - Bobby

[@CanyoneeringUSA]

Zinc? Do you mean Zicral, which is aluminum alloy?

[@CanyoneeringUSA]

Or perhaps you mean the Zinc plated Steel ones, aka Galvanized Steel.

[@CanyoneeringUSA]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7075_aluminium_alloy#Trade_names

[@Tac0caT0]

Can you do a break test on a unicender?

[@Smiodar]

Oh, the squeaks when the maillon was tightened. 😬Ear bleed.

[@ericj1103801]

So I was watching this and was like……. Are you going to have a catcher on that pulley………. Nope! 😀😀 you don’t need no stinking catcher!

[@stephennovosad6438]

THinking about the wear from repeatedly pulling ropes through the link and the relatative resistance between the two materials. Both are obviously strong enough in the immediate. As alluded to in the video, it is a question on long-term durability.

[@David.Cromer]

For the algorithm!!!! Lol. Nice video

[@Profixt]

9/10 times - *picks up broken item* - "wow' it's so warm!". 1/10 times - *picks up broken item* - "Wow, it's not really warm! Shocking"

[@Alvinyokatori]

Personally if I’m packing quicklinks they’re either getting left behind or idc about weight and want the bend ability of steel

[@ujjc001]

Sounds like you need to build a cyclic loading machine...

[@mikewirth8117]

Aluminum on steel wears the aluminum much faster than steel on steel. Seen the damage aluminum caribiner took from steel cable.

[@danielsavage1101]

There isn't that much theoretical about ultra high cycle fatigue of al alloys. It's all in literature. The main thing I would be worried about is consistent alloying, heat treatment, manufacturing e.g. casting. If the manufacture spec is off by 2.5x... makes you wonder if the material is changing or there is quality issues and they took the number based on spread in testing.

[@CanyoneeringUSA]

More likely, there was no point in rating it higher than they did.

[@hopelesswanderer6891]

What about aluminum quicklinks just for oh shit clips. For if you have to bail on a bolted route. I always carry one just in case

[@Kraken_Meister]

Galvanic corrosion of aluminum is much faster than steel, which is probably why long term you'd want to use steel over aluminum

[@rachelhasbruises]

You should see the "healing crystals" aluminum grows after like a few months underground. Shit is wiiiiild!

[@TakeoElite]

I kinda get the feeling that you lost your script when the aluminum did so good... What I kinda got out of this is, they are better than locking carabiners cuz cheaper and stronger but maybe need wrench? And almost as good just not as long lasting as steel quick links?

[@georgiantonov5557]

Why does it hold about twice what is rated for? I have two guesses: 1. Maybe it is rated/tested with loose nut. Kind of like half the piece. Maybe you can try loading it with the nut unfastened. 2. (And more likely) it may have something to do with the tensile strength of the material. It may be rated so low because loads above those numbers exceed the ultimate tensile strength of the material, which mean plastic deformations occur, which mean it may be impossible to unfasten it even with a wrench :D en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultimate_tensile_strength

[@andreylittle8270]

Id be curious to see the effects on the aluminum ones if you dropped it, if microfractures happen

[@etch3130]

doesn't exist as proved on this channel before.

[@SergieRachmaninoff]

They don't

[@HowNOT2]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gmmwd4ipnNt9Z8U

[@brainscrub7976]

@@etch3130 Well... This channel is awesome and entertaining, but as they like to point out themselves, they do entertainment, not definitive proof of anything. The pulls they did on that episode only showed that there weren't any microfractures on those specific carabiners. That does not prove that microfractures don't happen ever on any carabiners. If they happen, they are incredibly rare, so probably not something to worry about, but the video should not be seen as evidence to draw any significant conclusions from. If I drop a carabiner from 30 feet, I'm still going to retire it just to be sure.

[@billtheunjust]

Just don't let anyone near it with gallium.

[@moonliteX]

why does it say "quick"

[@rachelhasbruises]

I didn't think aluminum quicklinks were abnormal? Seemed like it's just yet another piece of not-permanent-hardware.

[@shoqed]

ok but crossloading? :D

[@toddpeterson2401]

I miss ur old KZbin voice.

[@paulmitchell5349]

It's pronounced ''my-yon''.

[@petercook6025]

Delaminate? When layers separate, I think thats what its called.

[@andreylittle8270]

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