About Steelhordes 2021 festival and Steelfest 2022 controversy [OPINION]

[@Rosvosektori]

I can listen Goatmoon and Popeda without being a nazi... I can also listen punk without being a communist.

[@RautaMetal]

Incredible but possible! If some ppl believe in Jesus, I don't know why it's impossible to imagine someone can listen to nsbm without being a nazi.

[@abhibhatt72]

I love music, in particular, black metal. I don't have any problem with the members ideologies (and I am a brown person). Even I don't agree with myself all the time, the things I said a year ago!

[@nykretus]

That's exactly what happened in the USA with the New Jersey show, because of antifa been attacking with politics and social media. The show had to be done and it was done big to show that no one will be censored for their differenr views. There was a lady a the show wearing a shirt that said against feminism, she was against trends and there was also color people showing support to white power. For the same reason that in America we are getting tired of censorship. In mexico people also like a lot nsbm because they respect that white people have their own ideologies for white supremacy just like they have prehispanic supremacy but the racism part is not very tolerated anywhere but we see that racism is more like a human behavior rather than political statement. We are aware some nsbm bands use war subjects in it like nazi or communism and all those kinds of subjects like antisemitism, well we know the world is like that but if the control continues is going ti affect the way we are being ruled by the system.is going to become normal and we will be oppressed again as a human species and we don't want that. We need freedom of speech and people can't be too sensitive just because you dont agree with other people's views.

[@willbether6571]

0lease.... never work as a pilot, a surgeon or an engineer.

[@diabolikalm]

@@willbether6571 please don’t reproduce 😂

[@hbehain4441]

What it comes down too, is if you don't certain bands then don't listen to those certain bands. Don't attack the entire festival for it.

[@BlackDeathThrash]

I think a lot of the pressure and pushback is for economic reasons too. Record labels, management companies, etc don't want their bands associated with NSBM bands or fests because they think it will affect their bottom line, their profit, and that is intolerable for most.

[@RautaMetal]

Yes. So money first - ideals second.

[@IRONHORSE_666]

Great point, always follow the money.

[@TotalDESSSS]

Such a shitshow. Inclusive, open discussions are what drives the polarization away, and can birth the golden middle road of agree-to-disagree. Mutual respect and will to compromise, that's what'll get us cooperation, democracy and freedom of speech.

[@OldSchoolMetalVinyl]

Yes please tell me more about the freedom of speech we need for racist filth and NS dbags like SW and Graveland

[@huabinzhou5350]

Been there twice (17&18), great venue, great food, great accompanies, well organized for bands (one of Zuriaake's favorite sets during their European tour 2017), even those Christian fellas waiting near the entrance seemed adorable for some reasons.

[@iggrut]

We onced played with our BM band at an evening with an hard left band. It was okay. Even if im not close to their opinion we had a nice evening. It does not always have to be about the differences but the equal interest.

[@RautaMetal]

Exactly. 100 % this.

[@milanmacurak186]

Yeah pretty much ! It's all about music and nothing else. Ignoring them is the highest priority. Let them rot in their hate and stupidity. Hopefully I could attend that festival. Definitely the best advertising for them. Onward !

[@dangerass1982]

I normally don't comment on these topics because, ultimately, online comments mean jack shit. But, in the hope that reasonable minds will prevail, here I go: I'm an American, who likely would be characterized a liberal by most people. With that said, I don't think any of the apolitical or bands without sketchy, or questionable, views should be held accountable for the decisions of the promoter. The bands that are being targeted by the online, virtue signaling white knights have a right to make an income and haven't been able to tour in 1 1/2 years. Not to mention, from looking at the lineup, there are a bunch of non NS bands on the bill. It's the promoter's responsibility to sign and drop bands, not Sodom, Dismember, Samael, etc. If anyone should get heat, it's the promoter. And what happens when all of these bands drop off? What are we left with? A bunch of (maybe) NS bands and, by default, an (maybe) NS festival. What the fuck does that solve? Maybe by leaving shit alone, these bands play together, views are shared, and a positive outcome is reached through conversation and education. And worst case scenario, a music festival occurs and non-sketchy and sketchy bands, and everyone else goes about their lives.

[@RautaMetal]

We're pretty much on the same page then. I'm liberal and disgusted by conservative people (that goes mostly for conservative religious folks out there), but I don't have an issue with bands on the bill. This heat is exactly mostly from the people who wouldn't come to the festival in the first place. So it's just bullying the bands basically. And I've said the same: it's not like left-wing bands or more liberal bands would be happy to join the line-up now that even neutral bands are getting the heat. So, it will be even more ns-focused festival after this. So, instead of a problem it's going to make things worse for those who tried to cancel it in the first place. That's what I'm guessing anyway. Most bands on the bill are/were neutral to begin with.

[@dangerass1982]

​@@RautaMetal Yep. I wonder how many of these people complaining through forums and social media go out and protest (I don't mean agitate, vandalize, etc.), and have face-to-face conversations with people across the political spectrum. All online shit talking does is cause problems for bands they supposedly like and support, which make up the majority of the lineup, and further piss off and alienate the ones they don't.

[@RautaMetal]

Yep. They say ”if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem” yet they are not talking about solutions but just bitching about the problems. So essentially they are part of the problem. Ironic.

[@MaitreMechant]

What I really don't understand, is that steelfest has been inviting "questionnable" bands for years, are people just discovering this ?

[@sonsin6381]

no its not about that, their problem is why some bands like Dark Funeral, Deicide, Sodom, Primordial are going to share the stage with those so to speak ''Nazis'' bands, thats why they try to cancel it, i think the Presence of those bands make it a big deal otherwise as you said Steelfest always had those NS bands on its list

[@MaitreMechant]

@@sonsin6381 yeah I guess that's what you have to deal with when inviting bigger bands... but by the sjw/woke logic, even if these "problematic" bands were not participating, being in a festival that is known for inviting such bands in the past would have been a problem anyway, you can never win

[@bloodthrone1]

What I don't understand either is why people are so bothered about a small metal festival in Finland with a few controversial bands. Most of those idiots that are kicking up a storm about it on the Steelfest Facebook page aren't Finnish. How about don't go to the festival if you don't like it? It's so simple to understand.

[@MaitreMechant]

@@bloodthrone1 because "guilt by association"

[@sonsin6381]

@@bloodthrone1 thats why i think the LEFT is the new form of fascism

[@grandfathernebulous]

Art has no victims, unless you let it. Cancel culture is an insult to intellectual freedom. Extreme metal has extreme subject matter and always should explore the boundaries of ideas and taste. If you don't like something, don't listen to it. Simple. Good video. 👍

[@RautaMetal]

Thanks

[@willbether6571]

You are right. But there is art and there is cheap shot indoctrination propaganda that kills metal

[@RautaMetal]

”That which is about to fall shall also be pushed.” If metal will die because of this, let it die.

[@willbether6571]

@@RautaMetal 0k 0k just please.... never work as a pilot, a surgeon or an engineer.

[@annukka2582]

Good opinion. I was in Steelhordes. It was well organized and there were many good gigs. I have a ticket to Steelfest. Steelfest is definitely one of the best festivals in Finland. I really hope it doesn't face any more bad things.

[@RautaMetal]

Cheers 🍻

[@karlhaikara1629]

100% Jerry, it's hard for me to understand the logic behind the idea that sharing a stage on a musical event means you agree with everyone on the bill, particularly because this kind of logic only is used by people in certain situations but you don't hear them saying this when it's like Wacken or something. Also I don't understand why people are calling Steelfest a 'nazifest' purely because the organizer is willing to book controversial bands because he himself has always made it clear he does so because he supports freedom of speech. But of course you'd probably drive yourself crazy trying to understand the logic behind these things because there is none. In a time when a band like Horna or Funeral Mist are actually being called NSBM bands by ignorant people who obviously have no idea what NSBM actually is it's pretty clear to me it's just the same as any witch hunt through history, just being accused of something no matter what the truth is is enough for some people to decide guilt. On a good note tho I'm looking forward to seeing those interviews you did, new interviews from Rauta are always a good thing.

[@RautaMetal]

Cheers!

[@jonathanergueta]

In every steelfest in the past decade there’s always that one band that does the “salute”

[@slagh4341]

Yeah, and nobody bothers it at the festival 👌

[@RautaMetal]

Band or audience? I guess I've missed those saluting bands mostly, but I've seen it in the audience in small numbers.

[@RockyRMR]

🤣🤣🤣

[@TERGENIS]

INQUISITION has been confirmed for Steelfest. 2022

[@MjmanDK]

Great video as always. And good that you are taking up this subject.

[@Mark.13.]

Im glad you're not one of those cancel woke fascists Rauta and I agree with what you stated here, for example im a christian who enjoys your channel for many years now even that I know you despise my religion making fun of it etc and I m big fan of black metal even though Im 100% aware how they literally spit on my beliefs, but I dont care coz my approach is "take it easy:)" thats what I call tolerance but some ppl just cant find any in themselves(even though they use this word all time in many cases...), You did reach the very core of the problem with ppl now which is they dont want any real conversation refuse facts, locking themselves in echo chambers, sorry for such long comment but I really have to say It was very smart what you said here about freedom of speech and not letting emotions take control over you.

[@RautaMetal]

Thanks for your words. I don't have problem with religious beliefs with ppl like you. I'd say I'm beyond woke 😎

[@ultra.silvam8448]

So, to open the discussion, I attended Steelhordes because I was on vacation in Finland and thought seeing some live music would be awesome again. Overall I had a good time, but I was actually shocked how many Neonazis attended (and I'm not talking about your average edgy Black Metal fan with Burzum shirt) and expressed themselves with Hitler salutes, "Sieg Heil" shouts, and NS merch, to a point I decided for myself I wouldn't attend Steelfest again because it simply doesn't reflect my views to party with Neonazis. That said, I can fully relate to bands who have been announced for Steelfest 2022 pulling out because they might not agree with the ideology prominently propagated there. Sodom being sort of the only exception since they already played with Nazi band Goatmoon at Steelfest in 2013. Overall I believe Steelfest caters with their "non-political" stand to a certain crowd of people which causes a lot of stir on social media. I do however believe it's wrong to dictate others what they should or shouldn't do, and if a band wants to play there or cancels it's their decision, the same goes for every person going there or not. Just because I decided for myself to not attend I won't tell friends/people I know to do the same.

[@iamhated6094]

Are you saying some bands on that festival are literally third reich supporters praising Hitler and their fans as well ?

[@slagh4341]

I hope you get rid of the invisible barrier to hate or fear these supposed Neonazis and other far right people. All the people I've discussed and have time with in Steelfests are great people and polite despite some of them having extreme opinions. Usually those people have the same drive than other people, making their country better by their own standards. Hate is hugely overpresented in right wing ideologies.

[@ultra.silvam8448]

@@iamhated6094 the only clear NS band for me playing at Steelfest was/is Goatmoon, and there's plenty of evidence to back this up. I don't consider bands like Horna, Destroyer 666, and other to be NS or even remotely supporting that ideology. I've seen "third reich supporters" attending the fest and that was also confirmed by other people I know who went previous years.

[@ultra.silvam8448]

​@@slagh4341 For me there is no room for discussion with Neonazis. I don't have an issue with people being nationalistic, being religious, or generally sharing different values in terms of what they like or don't. There wouldn't be any joy in life if everyone had the same believes and opinion (kinda like the third reich) So, being downright racist because you hate someone based on their skin color or religious believes, or thinking you're better based on your skin color or believes is the most idiotic thing to believe and there's no room for even trying to have a discussion with those people.

[@florianforelle7051]

@@ultra.silvam8448 peste noire and baise ma hache are nowadays pretty clear ns bands. and well, even satanic warmaster played a concert with absurd and der stürmer. two of the most far right bands you can think of. it's hard to imagine even spending time together with these "humans". there a lot of controversial artists, though some are clearly more than that.

[@NoelRojasGtz]

Too many sjws in the metal scene

[@helvetewinter68666]

Too much already, for a genre that preach against

[@Pablo-ye3bt]

Controversy aside ,good metal to the front

[@luxilahtinen7597]

My thoughts exactly. Good music comes to me first anyway...

[@RautaMetal]

Luukas, as usual, we agree fully on this!

[@bryanmons3463]

Man, what a sick line up that is... infernal war!

[@-Skaal-]

Black-Métal never die...

[@douglasquaid7550]

It's just ridiculous .

[@robertg305]

Maybe it’s just because I’m American lol, but the way you talk reminds me of the way Necrobutcher talks. Great video though I agree with you!

[@RautaMetal]

Interesting as he's from Norway and I'm from Finland. Thanks!

[@alvaroskito6548]

I like how you didn't insult any political ideology. Just the toxicity. I'm totally progressive and against racism, homophobia and that stuff, but I have absolutely no issues with bands with genuinely shitty views (I talk about extremist views) playing at fests. I only care about the fun 😎🤘

[@RautaMetal]

Yes. I'm all for freedom of speech, thought and expression. While I don't like politics myself, I won't deny people to think, left, right and all between. There are toxic people everywhere, despite political ways, gender, age, culture etc. Racism, misogyny, homophobia etc. are of course real problems, but let's be honest about it: most bands don't push their agenda on stage. They play music and music as such is mostly tunes, melodies, drums etc. I can enjoy good music with crappy lyrics, but I can't enjoy shitty music if only the lyrics are good.

[@KimchiYeo]

Funny how you call the right people with shitty views and extremists yet you are clearly thinking you are above others because you are just another sheep following the''i'm against racism '' not even open for debate reasons WHY people hate others. Just shows you are liek the rest of the lefties,dumb,uneducated and severely selfcentered.

[@Suffocating_Disdain]

Once again, you hit the nail on the head!

[@RautaMetal]

Thanks!

[@LacrimaeMundi]

I like the comparison you made about giving up to threats and cancelling bands to total censorship in societies that happened step by step, like Nazi-Germany. Once you give in, the next time will be easier and then the loop goes on. Art has its' place, even the art that makes you feel uncomfortable. It was Li Andersson who said, and I quote, "Every free democratic society has to have room for art. Even to the kind of art that feels difficult, challenges you and makes you feel uneasy. The prime objective of art is not to produce welfare art". As much as I dislike her politics, I think that is a fantastic comment. It very much sums up the topic at hand. I also have friends in both ends of the political spectrum and I have no problem with that. There will be things I strongly disagree with both of them, but it doesn't matter. That's life. We simply just don't discuss much about politics because we know that. If one is going to be associated only with people they 100 % agree on, they're gonna have some hard times ahead of them.

[@RautaMetal]

Fully agreed with your words and miss Anderssons.

[@nantalutok8921]

Sharing a stage at a big festival doesn't mean you support each other, not necessarily anyways. Planning a tour together on the other hand is something else. But Steelfest is not a new thing. If you agree to play there you know that there are controversial bands and you're fine with it. And now Sodom (whether or not they were fine with the nature of the event or decided to come for the fans and the money) were being pushed to cancel because of a shifted focus. Some years ago there was no outcry, when e.g. Asphyx, Naglfar, Saor, Primordial, Vader (which I saw several weeks ago at a "rather left" concert location in Germany), Destruction or even Sodom themselves in 2013 played in Finland. And being from Germany there was always a bigger focus on events that took place in Germany, people from the left watched closely the Lineup for Dark Troll, Under The Black Sun or smaller events and Nargaroth (even though of German origin), Taake or Horna for example are already the most controversial that are "okay" to play here I suppose. But it is almost not possible to have those controversial bands here in Germany, especially not those who also attended the events in Kiew, Ukraine. With so many bigger festivals being canceled this summer there might be a bigger focus now on where some bands confirm next year, maybe. In Finland you don't have the same historical background, even though people all over Europe have history in school (not so sure about the US though). The thing is: Being in the extreme metal scene there are so many controversies you could discuss, from dubious connections inbetween Bands and Labels to Racism, Anti-Religious expressions (like: Is it just Anti-Islamic/Anti-Judaic and "only anti-religious" oder already Anti-Muslim/Anti-Semitic music?) or Nationalism. And that's a musical niche we all chose exactly because of its misanthropy, its brutal and in general "evil" nature and its provocations. To be honest: Most of it is only some kind of varnish on top and the people behind it are normal, friendly, democratic people that play a role on stage. And I'm fine with that. But nonetheless there are bands and people that live what they express in their music - and that may offend some, but it is their freedom to do this. Even if I oppose right-wing musicians, which I strongly do. And what people from outside Germany underestimate is what an impact pictures of people doing the Hitler salute or merch items with swastikas and Nazi politicians can have, even though those symbols are not forbidden in Finland. You can choose whether or not to attend a festival that has these bands. You can choose as an artist to attend those festivals. You may not like it. But don't put that kind of pressure on musicians. But to all people who do: This is extreme metal music. If you don't want that you should listen to music that has no inherent aggression at all. I myself will probably never attend Steelfest (and not only because of the huge amounts of money I would have to spend to get there, have a place to stay and get some alcohol) - and that's a decision I made FOR MYSELF. But I don't like where this is leading. In times of corona I missed the discourse and it's the same here. Everyone who is now screaming "SODOM ATTENDS A NAZI FESTIVAL" takes the easy way out, only sees black and white and doesn't see the complex nature of the whole web that is the European Metal scene. And I could imagine that at a festival like Steelfest there are debates inbetween musicians in the backstage, as well as debates inbetween fans that attend the event and that is a good thing, even though there are opinions that are so widely apart from each other that a discussion may lead nowhere...

[@RautaMetal]

Well said. Things are different in different countries and artist vs. band etc. Well, everyone is free to choose for themselves. It's just sad that this time certain bands and one promoter are getting shit for that. We shall see if this kind of stuff shall divide bands into two divisions from now on: the safe ones and the "problematic ones" (for the lack of better wording).

[@sirmium1982]

That's why i'm appreciate band such as Kroda. Just listen to their cover of Prodigy and Nokturnal Mortum, both bands that i listening for more then 20+ years. Was I surprised? No I'm not. Either you feel darkness in music or not.

[@PestmeisterTairach]

Zero respect from my side to the Bands who cancelled... If I only had a stable line up, I would enjoy playing there... Black Metal never stood for tolerance, if you look for that go somewhere else. Total support to Steelfest!!! And of course to Rauta and his channel!

[@suricatacaricata3914]

I think that the more mainstream bands at this point look at their own bands as a regular job. They sell the merch and music as a brand sells his products.They lost the connection to the "scene" years ago. Most of them relly in the past glory. So, as brands do, they want to appeal to a greater number of people and some of those people are "modern people" so they don´t feel safe with some more extreme fans and started to criticise the bands... And it´s possible that the more mainstream bands think it could ruin their profit. €€€€€€€€ It´s kind of funny because in the black metal case it was the controversy and danger that made it known.

[@RautaMetal]

Money talks, bullshit walks.

[@willemlenders8272]

Two years ago I was about to get a ticket because of the old school sets of Sodom and Samael. Then Covid hit. Now I got excited again but the bands pussied out. I’m so bored with the whole situation that I won’t go into detail, but I’d be surprised if the fest happens at all. There’s always a new variant that messes up everything. At this point I’m not sure I’ll ever get to see a gig again. You made some good points though.

[@voltmandk.h.sherman777]

To quote ultra.silvam: "I do believe it's wrong to dictate others what they should or shouldn't do, and if a band wants to play there or cancels it's their decision, the same goes for every person going there or not. Just because I decided for myself to not attend I won't tell friends/people I know to do the same." Iggrut is right when he says music and/or Art "are not always have to be about the differences but the equal interest." To quote: Milan Macurak "It's all about music [and Art] and nothing else. Ignoring stupid people is the highest priority. Let them rot in their hate and stupidity." To conclude, me too Jerry I cannot wait to discover those interviews you've done during this fest. Cheers man!

[@RautaMetal]

🍻

[@georgesorkin3023]

I don't see any problem with NSBM "digging itself further into their own underground". It's good, even necessary they NEVER feel welcome in the "General" Metal scene.

[@RautaMetal]

Me neither.

[@antoniomanzur9488]

We are 6 Colombians, travelling there ...so see you there ...

[@RautaMetal]

Welcome!

[@jaysonwitting4671]

Would you interview nokturnal mortum, if they speak English?

[@iamhated6094]

Whats up with nokturnal mortum, why them ?

[@jaysonwitting4671]

@@iamhated6094 I thought rauta likes interviewing controversial bands and trying to understand them, correct me if I'm wrong

[@iamhated6094]

@@jaysonwitting4671 Im asking you whats up with this band what controversy ?

[@jaysonwitting4671]

@@iamhated6094 Well, they're NSBM

[@RautaMetal]

@jayson I would interview them and ask them about this and beyond.

[@michaelkampe7276]

Any news on Steelchaos happening or not this month?

[@RautaMetal]

According to their Facebook the event was postponed to 2022.

[@kapriizais8278]

Trolling sjw's on fb is hilarious

[@Brett1334]

Not much to say except I agree with all you’ve said here Jerry!

[@RautaMetal]

Cheers!

[@natalie-kj4om]

Yeah germans are pretty sensitive about stuff like that. I don't care if the band is right or left. If it's good music it's good music. I have my own opinion about politics so me listening to an artist that's right or left doesn't make me agree with the person. I find it interesting to understand both sides and see why they are thinking like that. People should get a hobby

[@RautaMetal]

Natalie You're spot on. Imo notes don't have politics

[@gh87716]

I want to go to Steelfest so bad!! Is anyone here going from the USA?? Does anyone know whether one has to be vaccinated to go??

[@SKvldlf]

Same here but I'm pretty sure you have to be vaccinated. If so I won't be going.

[@gh87716]

@@SKvldlf I have to look into it.

[@RautaMetal]

Most likely one has to be vaccinated in order to travel. Check out your local info for that.

[@rytkosenjussi6619]

Sadly i was not able to go there.

[@Stonesorrow]

I think what it comes down to is that Steelfest just has way too many bands on the 2022 bill that are NOT bands I want to give my money to. And that is what I would do if I paid for a ticket. I would give money and indirectly support, to bands that have awful views. Personal choice. Just like the Steelfest organizer chose to sign NSBM bands, knowing full well what they stand for. Personal choice. If "normal" bands want to cancel or not, that's up to them to decide. But if it was my band, I would not want to be associated with the likes of Inquistiion or Nokturnal Mortum.

[@RautaMetal]

Fair. Luckily for a normal metalhead there are plenty of festivals to choose from, even in Finland.

[@mthw-blackambientvault4109]

I think there's a clear difference between tolerance and indifference, I personally don't care about if there's accused of being a nazi bands playing but then again some might say that I'm a passive enabler of racism, bullying, homophobia, sexism and so on..

[@mthw-blackambientvault4109]

..and yes, maybe I am. I don't think that it is in my responsibility to go out and try to force correct other people to think the same way I think, I'm only responsible for my own actions and only if I see physical contact violence I think it's necessary to put to an end.

[@RautaMetal]

@@mthw-blackambientvault4109 Everybody represents him/her/itself - that's it.

[@mthw-blackambientvault4109]

yeah, that's about it

[@erikavaccari]

Hi Jerry🖤 when people will finally understand that the " right " and the "left" don't really exist since the power is in the hands of the few privileged who rule the world maybe humanity would have a chance to thrive.

[@RautaMetal]

That is very well said! Thanks Erika!

[@darkhymnsfromthecoldnorth]

Glad you take a side against toxic beliefs. You are a good man, Jerry.

[@RautaMetal]

🍻

[@spencergrady5501]

good video - make your choices, don't enforce them on others. and even knuckle-draggers like Inquisition can make good music, but I avoid financing far-right paramilitaries and potential nonce crimes...

[@RautaMetal]

Yes.

[@Aethersphaere]

I'd consider myself to be a kinda hard leftwing person but the whole debate is super ridiculous for me. Steelfest is basically a no-go festival for me, because they always have 1-3 bands I definitely do not wish to support and as long as I can't separate where my money from the ticket goes I simply don't go there. It's my choice to not go, simple as that. When I read that statement from Steelfest, that points out that booking agencies demand massive lineup changes this is really not cool for me. I do not need to agree with Steelfest but I massively dislike 3rd party influence. I slightly polarize to much here but: If Steelfest decides it to swim in the same pisspot like hot shower and asgardsrei, okay, cool their choice, maybe their consequences. If booking agencies have a hard problem with steelfest, do not fucking book your bands to play there. Find another place or organize something yourself. Just making demands, because you are pissed of by other peoples decisions changes nothing and the only thing that it creates is a hostile environment in a subculture with a lot of people with the personal tendency to push back to make a point, be it smart or not. The hole thing will change _nothing_ except that it will hurt a couple of artists and bookers financially after 1 1/2 years of not being allowed to play, fuck this shit.

[@RautaMetal]

I totally understand where you are coming from. So yeah, the bands are now taking the biggest hit: both in exposure and monewise. All this heat is hurting mostly the bands and that sucks.

[@Gregbaltzer]

I read/heard years ago that a lot of modern Germans still feel a lot of shame/guilt for Hitler and what the nazi's did in WW2. So I can understand why German bands like Sodom and Destruction would want to distance themselves from that scene more than bands from other countries would. As a Canadian I can't relate to the kind of feelings a German band may feel towards bands that give rise to that kind of ideology. It was never part of my heritage. Right now Canada is dealing with it's own shame regarding residential schools. I think a lot of fans can't relate to how bands like Sodom feel on a personal level towards the nazis, or they don't even try to understand how those bands feel. I've never listened to a NSBM band ever, so I don't know what message they're really trying to send. If it's the message my imagination tells me it is than I wouldn't have any interest in those bands neither. Would I want to support a festival that gives those bands a platform? I'd like to think I'd say "no", but part of me thinks I'd at least go first to see what kind of experience I'd have. But I have no personal connection to naizism. It's not part of my heritage like it is bands like Sodom, who may take those things more personally. I think fans/people need to take into account how German bands like Sodom may feel. It's got to be more personal for them than it is a lot of us. I don't think fans get that.

[@RautaMetal]

True that German ppl are still taught the guilt of their grandparents. Seen that firsthand in Germany. But with bands like Sodom, they canceled because of pressure, not because they have issues Most of this lineup was out there 2 Yeats ago. I personally don't listen to nsbm beyond reviews. Most of the lyrics I don't even read these days, unless the music has a strong impact on me. With steelfest lineup only a small % have any kind of ns thing going on. So to me it seems a small minority is calling the shots for the mass.

[@Gregbaltzer]

@@RautaMetal Yeah, I seen on Sodom's facebook that they apparently flip flopped. Then they were vague about the reasons they just said it was because of their "convictions". There were people who were saying "if you don't cancel then you're spineless and you'll lose a fan." and then there were people saying "you're spineless for cancelling. You've lost a fan. SJW blah, blah." It seemed very damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[@florianforelle7051]

I guess a lot of people in germany wouldn't call it a feeling of guilt or shame. It's more a matter of taking responsibility in dealing with such hateful ideologies. The idea is to prevent the uprising - or better said - the acquiescence of this body of thought. Instead the interpretation as feelings of guilt or shame are more likely used by people who don't want to consider the past of the country as crucial or who are just annoyed by it. But yes, the history of germany is a significant issue for musicians and fans in visiting, participating or even denying these kinds of shows. Personally I can't get along with the steelfest statement. In my opinion you can't distance yourself from racist ideologies (as they said), if you are booking acts like kpn or bmh to play on your stage. That's not even controversial anymore. Karl Popper and his paradox of tolerance are an important aspect in discussing freedom art and speech.

[@Gregbaltzer]

@@florianforelle7051 I've never had an issue with Black Metal lyrics because I'm an athiest and Satan and all that jazz is just fantasy to me, so sing about Satan all you want. It's like reading a good horror book. As for NSBM, I've never exposed myself to it, but I honestly don't hate any race or any religion. I hate people within every race and religion, but I also like certain people within every race and religion. It's just not intelligent to generalize any race/religion on the actions of some. I'm no saint, I can be a real dick when the mood hits me. But I'm a self aware dick. It just feels lately the whole world is turning into left vs. Right. People are judging each other on their differences instead of their similarities. It's like we get to know each other through our politics first, and that's how we decide if we like each other or not. I've really grown to fucking hate the left and right. There are some basic decencies that even should be an issue of left or right, but that's how they've become. I'm sick of it.

[@INSMNVA]

dont be a d bag!, you nailed it

[@AntifascistBlackMetalNetwork]

Ahah I came for the tears and wasn't disappointed

[@RautaMetal]

Glad to hear! Internet metal community lives on drama, not music.

[@AntifascistBlackMetalNetwork]

@@RautaMetal half of it lives for the Azov battalion instead

[@RautaMetal]

Ok. I wouldn't know. I actually had to google what the hell it is. First time I even hear of it.

[@AntifascistBlackMetalNetwork]

@@RautaMetal yeah sure. Now maybe you wanna Google Asgardsrei and Nokturnal Mortum, too. Maybe you'll learn something new

[@RautaMetal]

Of course I know them. I have never ever felt the need to travel to Asgardsrei, Hot Shower or Apocalyptic Rites. Nokturnal Mortum was never my cup of tea, musically or lyrically.

[@guilhermedutra3957]

That's the way the left acts.. let's cancel all of the bands we don't agree with and put them in the same nazi bag. Rauta, please do an interview with Havuukruunu when you get the chance, it would be really nice to know them better. Greetings from Brazil!

[@BlackDeathThrash]

fyi, Havukruunu announced yesterday that they will not perform at Steelfest 2022.

[@RautaMetal]

Havukruunu interview was already done at Steelhordes

[@guilhermedutra3957]

@@BlackDeathThrash Oh really? That's sad..

[@guilhermedutra3957]

@@RautaMetal Nice! Excited for this

[@helvetewinter68666]

Who cares is they are NSBM ? Who cares ? They show already they hate white people, and those who make metal anyway

[@tales-of-fossegrim]

Sodom actually didn't give a shit about the lineup but their promoter could not withstand the heat so that why the cancellation happened!

[@RautaMetal]

So I understood: agency and SoMe pressure.

[@paskapaavo]

This whole situation is ridiculous. If you don't like certain bands you don't have to go there. I can listen same day Temnozor and Kreator -People of the lie. It's not problem to me. But I think it would be easier if Steel don't book these so called nazi bands, because people are nowadays so sensitive and we have got this social media crap.

[@jeffreyburrows9157]

How about not giving a damn what people think? Why would you pick the most extreme type of music, i.e. 2nd wave black metal which was born in the glare own burning churches and try to make it generally acceptable?

[@submissivebreedable9809]

I remember you mentioning a possible goatmoon interview in the future will it still happen? 🥺

[@RautaMetal]

I met Black Goat at Steelhordes and he said he doesn't want to do the interview. Who knows if his mind will change with time.

[@SKvldlf]

@@RautaMetal damn that really sucks.

[@helvetewinter68666]

@@RautaMetal understandable that band always being in the focus is respectable he want to keep his privacy hope he happens

[@RautaMetal]

Yep. Given today's metal metal atmosphere, no wonder if some bands don't want to do interviews. Every word can be twisted and taken out of the context by who dislike the band.

[@SKvldlf]

@@RautaMetal hopefully you can still do a forgjord interview. That's the other interview I'm looking forward to.

[@ThePimV]

The bands playing year. Dont seem to spread any racist idology to me...Its not like Absurd or Der sturmer is playing. The bands playing purely about their music when preforming at a festival like this. Steelfest is not a racist festival like Asgardsrei or Hotshowers.

[@RautaMetal]

> Steelfest is not a racist festival like Asgardsrei or Hotshowers. Indeed it's not even though ppl seem to see this black and white: "one political band can stain it all". What happened to the saying "one rotten apple doesn't ruin the whole basket"?

[@papaaddy9269]

Gimpy little noodle arm 20 years old arent going to stop anyone listening to what they want to.

[@mamelukkikala1160]

I think it's completely misleading to talk about politics here. Nazism is more of a human rights issue, not a political one. And when someone has fundamentally different views on human rights, it's not exactly easy to just "forget about your differences and have a good time together". I'm not judging anyone who performs with them, since they might see it differently and be able to be there just for the music, but I can also totally understand why a lot of bands are pulling out. Oh, and there is a convicted pedophile on the lineup, which is even worse than being a nazi on a thought level.

[@RautaMetal]

While you're basically on a right track here, you're also factually wrong in a few places there and I don't have the time to be a fact police. Sorry mate, but simplifying things too much is as much as much as lying. If you wanna get a point across or fix something in the world, start double checking your facts and don't assume so much. Also, a lot of bands just pulled out because of sheer pressure from audience and agencies, not because the bands themselves care so much. But... like a certain record store pointed out, this just shows people's and bands' true colors and it's for the best: both for the festival and the scene. Time will tell.

[@mamelukkikala1160]

@@RautaMetal Thanks for taking the time to reply! Yes I know most of the bands that this list most likely consists of have nothing to do with nazism, but you can't deny that some of the individuals there have some pretty questionable ideologies, plus they have performed at actual nazi festivals. I can personally separate the art from the artist and for example I absolutely love Satanic Warmaster's music, but I can still see why a band wouldn't want to get associated with certain sketchy individuals. Sure, the labels might be behind some of the choices, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the bands themselves made that decision. Maybe working alongside questionable people can genuinely be against their principles and maybe sharing the stage would simply feel wrong for them. Not everyone sees the art/artist thing the same way as me or you and they have the right to think as they think. I especially understand why a german band would skip this party. As for myself, whether a band decided to stay in or get out doesn't really make a difference and I'll keep enjoying their music just the same.

[@RautaMetal]

I always try to make time for comments as long as they are constructive and/or fun, not just trolling :) I am not denying that a lot of musicians have more or less shitty views or questionable ideologies. In fact I think that ALL ideologies should be questioned! Real neo-nazis are of course problematic to begin with, but let's also be honest: an average Finnish nsbm is no more dangerous to the society than an average Christian conservative. Actually the latter one is probably more dangerous given the numbers and will to participate in mainstream politics. In other countries there are far more dangerous extremist groups. Like I'm pretty sure that American white supremacy groups/gangs are far more real a threat than some black metal heads playing music with "questionable lyrics". Then again all real criminals are far more a threat than random musicians, no matter what the style. We don't even have to talk about some badass rappers here! I also separate music from the artist. I'll use Burzum as an example. The early work at least was pretty much related to fantasy games and ancient folklore and myths, where as the musician himself (Vikernes) has of course talked a lot of nonsense on his own channel and website. I have no problem when bands use their "moral compass" or principles to steer them. It's ok to be behind one's own set of rules and stand by them. At the same time I have quite a Manowar feeling about this: "wimps and posers leave the hall", you know? About Inquisition tho: you might want to google that crime. For example he isn't listed as sex offender in his state, even though he plead guilty to some of the charges. But of course I understand if ppl don't want to support that stuff. We are all free to choose where and how we stand or whether we give a flying fuck :)

[@mamelukkikala1160]

@@RautaMetal As weird as it may sound, after all that I've said, I actually think Steelfest made the right choice for themselves here. They have every right to book whichever bands they want and I'm not screaming at them to cancel anything. Buuuuut the thing is, they gotta live with the consequences of losing a lot of the bigger bands. They totally had that coming with some of the band choices on the line up. Steelfest exercised their freedom by booking those bands and sticking with them, as did all the dropped out bands when they chose not to play with them. I'm not all that worried about nazism in Finland and I of course don't consider these bands a threat to anyone. I mean, these days our scene is being seen as lot more evil and controversial than the 90's norwegian one, despite the fact that there haven't even been any BM related murders in Finland:D I don't really even mind nazi gigs happening as long as they're not breaking any laws. I mean, it's a lot easier to keep an eye on them when you know where they are, right? What I'm most worried about though is that Steelfest will start going towards that direction now that they've alienated a lot of the "non-sketchy" bands. And that would make me quite sad, since the meaning black metal holds for me personally is not tied to skin color, gender or anything of the sort. It's deeper and more universal than that. But that's just my interpretation obviously.

[@RautaMetal]

Heya. We seem to agree this 100 %. Not much to add. But we had one black metal related murder over here: Jarno Elg. That one has Ancient playing so there's a Christian bm associated... 😀