Raya's Moral ISN'T A Good Lesson to Learn (Raya and the Last Dragon) | READUS 101

Raya’s Moral ISN’T A Good Lesson to Learn (Raya and the Last Dragon) || The story of Raya and the Last Dragon has with it a moral that can be applied to a universal lesson of unity and trust. However, when it comes to how they apply it to Raya and her traumatic relationship with princess of Namaari of the Fang tribe, the moral and lesson that the movie wants to teach is not as simple as it seems.
Catch Raya and the Last Dragon in Theaters and Streaming on Disney Plus!
Subscribe to READUS 101 for all things superheroes, movies, television, and comics! kzbin.info?sub...
Click to see my analysis of the Thrombey Family from Rian Johnson's "Knives Out"!
• The Dangerous Mentalit...
Recording Equipment:
Canon Rebel T7i DSLR - amzn.to/313eINX
Padcaster Parrot Teleprompter Kit - amzn.to/3fKMD23
Zoom H1 Portable Digital Recorder - amzn.to/2V86fVU
RODE VideoMic Studio Boom Kit - amzn.to/2YpNijr
ePhoto Photography Studio Lighting Kit - amzn.to/2NkSzm7
ESDDI Softbox Photography Lighting Kit - amzn.to/314KHgy
Support My Patreon!
/ readus_101
Make One-Time Donations At:
www.paypal.me/readus101
www.ko-fi.com/readus
Buy Official Readus 101 Merch Here!
www.teespring.com/stores/read...
_____________________
Music
"Wisdom Tooth" by B-RadGfromOV
www.newgrounds.com/audio/liste...
Readus 101 Theme:
"Phantom" by B-RadGfromOV
www.newgrounds.com/audio/liste...
Facebook: / readus101
Twitter: / readus_101
Tumblr: / www
Instagram: / readus101
Snapchat: Readus101
#RayaAndTheLastDragon #Raya #Namaari
• Raya's Moral ISN'T A G...

[@Readus101]

Tuk-Tuk is Best Boy. You can't change my mind. ❤️

[@fredskull1618]

Voiced by Alan Tudyk, because of course.

[@LunaGirl196]

My Mom agrees with you.

[@pmnyc87]

I'm a new sub. And I'm loving your perspective on all these movies and shows. Genius pure genius 👏.

[@thebananabeast2322]

I mean its the truth you cant change facts

[@L337M4573RK]

No argument here!

[@gurusmurf5921]

Not holding abusers accountable for their actions is how abusive relationships persist.

[@realar]

Yeah, Disney is not good with the concept of accountability these days. It was this bad in Ralph Breaks the Internet too.

[@CandyApples4ever]

@@realar Oh god that movie made me cringe when I saw that.

[@gurusmurf5921]

@realar Maybe they're trying to get people in an inappropriately forgiving mood because they fear something really really dark about Disney is going to come out. People who need forgiveness tend to be it's strongest proponents.

[@nyahnyahson523]

@@gurusmurf5921 With stuff like this that's always my guess. It's kinda like how the ending to Steven Universe gives off the vibe that someone on the writing term is an active victim.

[@bryanmerel]

@@gurusmurf5921 'member Xinjiang? 'member Gina Carano? 'member how they basically make black actors invisible when it comes to Chinese Market?

[@MegatronPrime321]

First the movie punishes Raya for being too trusting of Namaari, and then further punishes her for not being trusting enough.

[@tayh.6235]

I think the message there is that you should do what's right whether it costs you or helps you. In real life, if you do the right thing, you're gonna get burned sometimes. That doesn't mean to be stupid, but it means you have to accept you might get hurt.

[@bryanmerel]

Sounds like how social justice punish people for not defending the weak, but also punish People when they actually defend for others. 🤣

[@xenos7876]

​@@tayh.6235 well it may be true but reality is not some fairy tale where everybody can just trust one another and trusting just make your life worse so their way of potraying the story and morale is terrible

[@sthepcorms6747]

@@tayh.6235 In the film she literally loses her father for being the good person, between losing my father, and having my morals questioned, I prefer a thousand times the second option

[@coletrainhetrick]

Oh wow, I guess being complex and challenging ideals on something literal as TRUST apparently isn't allowed

[@Soul__G]

I actually got so triggered when Namaari said this is your fault too. BROO I feel like little kids will take it the wrong way and not take responsibility when they’re in the wrong.

[@lewokecrybabyjames5828]

Thays exactly why they did it. They're trying to change society. They said it themselves.

[@AlmostArrynt]

@@lewokecrybabyjames5828 Wait, what? Can you link me to what you're talking about please?

[@aseraphim9813]

You mean more than they already don’t.

[@mike24kb]

manipulative

[@kentslocum]

Little kids shouldn't be watching Disney movies at all, if you're worried about them getting the wrong ideas.

[@Zyscheriah]

Lowkey Disney is telling people to: "Trust and forgive the scum who did bad things to you repeatedly"

[@Konghammer1]

It's how a party that was born, and raised to power off the back of slaves, convinces the vast majority of the people they used to enslave to vote then in EVERY YEAR. Because they just don't know any better, weren't taught the real truth.

[@NikoJr.]

So basically, since Disney is scum, they are asking their viewers to trust and forgive them?

[@cybercriminal3110]

Not trust, but believe in them, give them a chance. Namaari had no point in hurting Sisu, but Raya didn't believe in it, and that's what got Sisu killed.

[@Zyscheriah]

@@cybercriminal3110 idk fam, when they're given multiple "2nd chances" and they still choose betrayal multiple times, seems sketchy to blame a traumatised person for not believing.

[@cybercriminal3110]

@@Zyscheriah The first time wasn't even a betrayal. Namaari didn't swear to be her friend for the rest of their lives. Being a little kid Raya of course was naive, not realizing that a princess of an enemy nation would choose her people. Second (and last) time all Namaari did was pull out a crossbow, which isn't cheating since they didn't agree to come unarmed. She wouldn't have shot Sisu if Raya believed that. I don't blame Raya ofc, but there was still a lesson for her to learn.

[@darksoals]

Remember when sishu almost dies because she trusted the old lady Chief? She brought her gifts, just wanted to talk to her, and then was locked away from water with the smoke things to be executed. This movie wants you to just trust people, but it also repeatedly shows that trusting everyone blindly is disastrous.

[@timothybaer6552]

Exactly. But then tells you to trust everyone blindly.

[@Neutral_Tired]

I pointed that out actually while watching, it spends the entire movie telling us Raya is right to never trust anyone, and then she's wrong once and that proves she's wrong all the time?

[@darksoals]

@@Neutral_Tired she wasn’t even wrong the time she was wrong. Namari was pulling the trigger when she lashed out, so at what point do you make the call that someone is going to take the shot? Just because it resulted in sishus death doesn’t mean her attempt to save her was unwarranted. It’s not like namari had removed her finger from the trigger and then raya lashed out. So idk This movie would have been so much better if the message was about earning and re-earning trust, rather than blindly trusting.

[@KrazyKelor]

It was interesting how Namaari and her mother had the same hairstyle, but in opposite directions and colors. As if to suggest Namaari would defy and oppose her mother rather than give in to her wishes. Namaari could have had a parallel confession years after she first betrayed Raya. Raya said when she was pleading Sisu to come back “I made a mistake.” Why not have Namaari also say “I made a mistake.” If not to Raya, perhaps only to herself, as she contemplates the rightness or wrongness of her mother’s policy and strategy. I do think the movie has the pieces necessary to make a case that Fang were not alone in their treachery, the other nations immediately joined in on the power grab for the gem before and after it was shattered. Queen Fang’s not wrong in her belief that the other nations would resent Fang for their prosperity despite the shattering. After all, they all resented Heart for the same reason before the shattering. Queen Fang has a point that they survived by making intelligent choices, but Namaari could have challenged her by suggesting that intelligent self-preservation doesn’t have to mean indifference to the suffering of others. Instead of counting on the others to mistrust us, perhaps we could show them why we are trustworthy and try to repair some of the damage we’ve done. There was much potential for more complexity end greyness, but instead we got a broken Aesop and a toothless happy ending.

[@happyllama1160]

I feel like the moral should be don’t blindly trust people but don’t automatically pit yourself against them. Be up for being able to trust someone, but be cautious doing it immediately

[@hawkward957]

Namaari betrayed her and basically brought in the apocalypse... but Raya is in the wrong for not blindly trusting her? Yeah... ok, Disney

[@joannawinters6592]

It was a good thing that she brought apocalypse.

[@Lilly-to9hs]

I got ticked off about that. Like c'mon, you don't have to forgive everybody, especially someone who abused or betrayed you.

[@josephpaloma43]

To let You think about it, what is one nation today mostly everyone is blaming for a certain event that happened. But this nation is pumping a solution to the problem and begs everyone to trust them. Cause this real nation resembles closely to the Fang tribe

[@lauramerz1228]

@@josephpaloma43 Are you talking about Germany???

[@josephpaloma43]

@@lauramerz1228 no cause my comment is based from repent events

[@MegaAgamon]

The difference between Namari and Zuko is that Zuko never made excuses never blamed the gaang for how he acted he worked HARD to earn their forgiveness and trust. As an old saying goes "it is easier to burn a tree than it is to grow it". Honestly I would have the last scene play out in reverse. Namari doing the first step redeeming herself by acknowledging this is mostly her fault then have the people that Raya earn their trust follow suit showing the value of trust when it is earned. It would have been an amazing way to reward Raya for opening and it would give a chance to Namari to redeem herself.

[@intotheunknown1628]

I litterly have thought the same thing. Like Disney ruin this movie so badly like HOW DO YOU FUCK UP TRUST. I swear I barely want to watch it now if there going to fuck up morals like this. Like litterly you can trust people but after awhile when does it become not okay like UGGGGGGGH

[@clarkepercivaljaeblood4886]

@@intotheunknown1628 Sure, yeah, but I swear that Namaari is the worst part (except that the movie should've really been about Captain Boun), the rest is a masterpiece ❤

[@clarkepercivaljaeblood4886]

Nah, man, I like where you're going, but nah, I want Namaari to apologize where they were duking it out in the Fang palace. Or, IDK, maybe CHANGE THIS STUPID LINE ("YoU'rE aS mUcH tO bLaMe FoR SiSu'S dEaTh As I aM.") into a line that shows she's fucking sorry for everything?!

[@MegaAgamon]

@@clarkepercivaljaeblood4886 why not both?

[@bryanmerel]

@@clarkepercivaljaeblood4886 i would have preffered that Naamari apologize, but have her life be the cost for re activating the crystals. It would teach kids a balance of forgiveness and owning to your mistakes.

[@cenplays]

I feel like Disney made trust black and white. Namaari never seemed sorry about betraying Raya twice and killing Sisu. Raya wasn't responsible for Sisu's death, Namaari was the one starting to pull the trigger, Raya responded by trying to protect her friend from DYING, which did happen because Namaari did pull the trigger. Yes, Naraari is manipulated by her mother, but that doesn't excuse her own actions. Namaari doesn't deserve their trust yet. She can have redemption, but she didn't show that she wanted it. Forgiveness is great, but forgiveness is not the same as trust. Just because you forgive someone doesn't mean you're saying it's ok that it happened, or that you should trust the person. Once you forgive someone, you have NO obligation to carry on any form of a relationship, or trust them. Being too untrusting or trusting is bad. You need to learn how to give the right amount of trust. Saying iT's a KIds moVIe! isn't an excuse to portray a toxic relationship as a healthy one you should strive for. Many children base their reality on TV shows and movies and might end up thinking that if they meet a person like Namaari, it's ok.

[@thevioletskull8158]

The only thing I’ll agree is that Namaari did show remorse,like crying when she saw Sisu and Namaari looked like she wasn’t going to pull the tigger but yeah Namaari should have had consequences for her actions,yes she sacrifices her self but that doesn’t solve the trauma of protraying Raya twice.

[@zenitsuagatsuma9687]

Forgive but don't forget they say :)

[@releyaharia242]

I agree with you. Namaari doesn't even know what she has done wrong or she feels like she did nothing wrong by blaming others. She always pushes all the blame on Raya. As if Disney is always putting the blame on Raya. Raya trusted Namaari, boom, she destroys the world. She doesn't trust Namaari, boom, Sisu dies.

[@CandyApples4ever]

If you’re going to have a life lesson in a movie you need to make it a good one otherwise you’ll have kids thinking the unhealthy thing is a good thing.

[@clarkepercivaljaeblood4886]

Saying that it's a kid's movie in defense of a bad film only worsens the case. The error is now more pressing BECAUSE it's a kid's film. They learn that abuse and gaslighting is ok and that they should be the one who adjust around people who hurt them. Tangled is a kid's film, and, heck, she's an official Disney princess, and Mama Gothel is all a toxic maternal figure is: A gaslighter, someone who negs, and is an emotional blackmailer. She doesn't get redeemed and I think that's why Tangled has one of the best villains; she doesn't get some sloppy redemption arc that has Rapunzel just shrug off everything she did (at least, that only happens in the first half of the film, and we always see Rapunzel hating that she does this). But, yeah, stop saying it's "just a kid's movie" or "it's just a looney cartoon", because it shapes what kids value, and it's not so easy to fix when they get older.

[@MM-ly7cm]

Honestly the Avatar did a much better job showing forgiveness and trust than this movie. When Katara realized she would never truly forgive the man that killed her mother, but also realized that she didn’t have to have his actions plague her mind for the rest of her life; THAT is true strength. That man traumatized her. She will NEVER forgive him for what he’s done. But she learned how to move past it.

[@diepssuarez2676]

Aang realized that while the Fire Lord killed all the airbenders, he was a person, and Aang should show him some compassion and not take his life. Aang passed his trauma, but never forgave Ozai for his crimes.

[@As8bakwTheSage]

YES

[@MM-ly7cm]

@@diepssuarez2676 very well said. Aang also stuck to his morals while also keeping in mind what type of person Ozai is.

[@papasscooperiaworker3649]

Yes! You're so right. No one needs to forgive their abusers, but it definitely isn't right to actually cause more abuse in the world and become an abuser yourself. You're allowed to feel whatever you feel about your abusers (maybe you're sad, disappointed or angry at them... that's valid), but those feelings shouldn't result in an act of harm towards your abusers. You can move on even without forgiveness.

[@alyssapinon9670]

Yes! Moving on with your life is a must. Forgiveness isn’t

[@lasmanosmaestras8334]

Sisu: Maybe the world is broken because you don't trust anyone. Me: Actually, the world is broken because she trusted in someone who betrayed her later.

[@zackkarma7760]

My god, sisu was so naive despit being some ancient powerful being, it was weird

[@KW-tx6er]

@@zackkarma7760 hate how all dragons look, have enough of these Disney shitty designs in games and movies.

[@morrigan468]

@@KW-tx6er I mean.. it’s supposed to be for children.. isn’t it..?

[@ohyui]

it seems like the film is gaslighting raya. it's weird seeing that in a family movie.

[@GFHGGDJHJHJ]

Oddly enough, both are correct.

[@ynntari2775]

Almost graduating in Psychology here. And I may be able to contribute by saying: Children may not consciously, logically understand the message in a way that they can explain with words to you, but they *do* absorb and understand it enough to believe the message is true and that they (the victims) are the only problems. This can cause even *more* damage on children because they do internalise the morals, but without being able to explain it, talk about it or question it.

[@okami425]

*you can go the movies and watch and it make sense, but that doesn't mean you know what that meant* jordan peterson. That's what the kids doing reminded me of.

[@multiplefandomlover7179]

Most underrated comment here. Children need to be treated with more respect and like they are intelligent enough to understand these kinds of "adult" themes. Because they are.

[@Plusle843]

I agree. And it's a big problem, because they don't know the real world yet, and will suffer greatly, if they go by some morals, that are present in movies(My Little Pony, *coughs*).

[@mama-miadayo]

@@Plusle843 i have a question, I don't really get why you mentioned My Little Pony cause I don't watch it. Do you mean it presents morals of the story there or not?

[@Plusle843]

@@mama-miadayo My Little Pony, The Movie. In there Twilight, main character, is represented as bad for trying to steal an artifact after her country has been invaded, the princesses captured, and after a series of problems her friends made that SHE had to personally blitz in short amount of time. 1) Get to a town and almost get sold into slavery? Flee the town. 2) Pinkie jumps onto a rope and FALLS to her death? Twilight has to fly and save her ass. And after that Pinkie treats it like a joyride, not a threat. You don't get to "giggle at the ghosties", when you where falling to your DEATH. 3) Make way in thick clouds silently in the ship? Rainbow will fix it, Rainbooms and attracts Tempest. After that Twilight throws the gang from the ship, and crafts a hot air balloon in MIDAIR. After all that they come to the hyppogriphs and get "we can do a favor for you". I see it as this message: Sit your ass down, and don't solve problems. They will be solved by someone else.

[@joligv3498]

This movie is like a bad relationship with a narcissist, and the narcissist wins.

[@diveegenewonyoung228]

Yes I agree with you

[@aseraphim9813]

This triggers me so much. Lol.

[@cybercriminal3110]

That doesn't even make sense.

[@validark]

Im goingto say it Zuko didnt get a redemption arc more that he got a recovery arc He was never evil, he was abused

[@stareyedwitch]

I agree. And, I'd like to add, Iroh isn't that great of a parental figure. He and Zuko were on a ship together for 3ish YEARS. Iroh had plenty of time to help Zuko start to heal and recognize that Ozai is a terrible person. None of that happens, and Iroh's behavior in the first season has some elements of emotional neglect. Some of Iroh's behavior and words are played for laughs in season 1, but in reality it probably would not be considered good parenting, especially for a kid like Zuko.

[@zthetajulietta8184]

@@stareyedwitch yeah, but I think the point is that most parental figures aren’t perfect or are not emotionally equipped for the complicated problems their kid’s are experiencing. Iroh was very emotionally fraught from his son’s death, and probably still had hope that the family could compromise after zuko’s mission and make amends with each other. He coped through being optimistic in bad situations to avoid painful feelings which a lot of people do. Iroh genuinely cared for zuko’s mental and physical health and often told him to rest and watched over him, but zuko has his fathers voice in his head that doing that would make him lazy. Iroh felt a futility in their mission, but they were safe from the fire nations wrath as they were not defecting. He didn’t want to see another father lose their son, and possibly wanted to save zuko’s and ozai’s relationship as well as keeping him safe from the danger that would come if they ever were to abandon ties to the fire nation.

[@ShinobiPXO]

"I know I've made a lot of mistakes. But today, I'm going to start setting things right" Funny, but what does an abused victim need to set right? Zukos recovers by redeeming himself, by doing the right thing. It is very much a redemption story.

[@kkdraws9052]

@@stareyedwitch If it weren't for Iroh Zuko would be dead or still on the evil side. Iroh is the only person that was there for Zuko in the first place

[@TheSilverOrn]

@@stareyedwitch You are seeing the end of Zuko's ICU recovery and not all the things Iroh had to do to get Zuko to that point. Iroh is constantly trying to get Zuko to relax and become a better person in every way he can, just it isn't until the Avatar shows up that he has an actual lever to use to help push Zuko to drastic changes. Iroh is always there trying to get Zuko to relax, but also protecting him constantly.

[@cattledogandstaffy]

I hate how the Namaari and the movie itself try to blame Raya for "having equal blame" for Sisu's death. Namaari was the one who brought a crossbow to a peaceful meeting. Namaari was the one who PULLED THE TRIGGER. Namaari was the one who went there with the intention of betraying Raya again. And if we want to ignore all of this, remember that Namaari was the reason they were all in this situation to begin with. And she never even apologises or shows remorse for what she's done.

[@BuizelCream]

While I agree with the point here, and the rest of the comment section's general points that is also highlighted in this video, I tend to wonder if we should also consider the context of what Namaari's facial expression indicates in that critical moment, even when she pulled out her crossbow. She was shrinking in doubt and regret. This may be another unfortunate case of the movie's flaw of oversimplifying, or not expounding that scene with some more authentic exchange to show more of Namaari's change of intention to join the good side before snapping back to pulling out her crossbow. 🤔 That scene went off way to quickly for the movie to properly explain itself.

[@alexandergapour1253]

It's just like Disney when they fired Gina Carano

[@phousefilms]

Thought it was because Raya tried to disarm Namaari and jostled the crossbow, which made it hit Sisu.

[@bonbonchocolat7777]

@@BuizelCream for me it wasn’t just her pulling out the crossbow. we see her put pressure on the trigger

[@jaguar_8344]

Yeah, and in the end, she saved the world; raya was right. By forgiving her, she empowers namaari enough to be able to do this one good thing: reassemble the gem.

[@releyaharia242]

I really didn't like how some parts of the story was executed. It didn't take long for me to realize that the story was showing a toxic relationship. Trusting too much can turn you into a prisoner in a toxic relationship. The story was really pushing and forcing Raya to TRUST Namaari even after all Namaari had done. They didn't even bother to show Namaari apologizing or feeling guilty of what she has done.

[@cybercriminal3110]

There is NO relationship between them. They were enemies, and in the end Raya forgave her.

[@mythoughtsexactly2145]

@@cybercriminal3110 them being enemies is literally their relationship

[@cybercriminal3110]

@@mythoughtsexactly2145 ... and you expect the relationships between the enemies to not be toxic and abusive?

[@mythoughtsexactly2145]

@@cybercriminal3110 it is toxic for a movie to teach kids about forgiving their abusers

[@cybercriminal3110]

@@mythoughtsexactly2145 Being an enemy isn't the same as being an abuser.

[@blackosprey2219]

When I was a little kid and tried lying to my parents, they emphasized how lying has consequences- people won't trust you and you have to earn it back. I'm kind of floored that Disney can't grasp such a fundamental fact.

[@thymer905]

It was EXTREMELY frustrating watching Namaari gaslight Raya after she shot Sisu. Raya had to watch her father get shot in the knee and wounded by Namaari's tribe Stuff like that can be very traumatizing, and stick with you for life even if no one dies from such actions. It's no wonder she jumped again when she watched Namaari point another crossbow at someone she cared about. Namaari if she was having doubts, should've never pointed that gun at their last hope at survival in the first place.

[@demlunzel3339]

THANK YOU. LIKE THAT PISSED ME OFF

[@elizg5245]

And the fact that that crossbow was aimed to kill her father, in an assassination attempt by Fang, but he deflected it. She was also trying to deflect it here.

[@thevioletskull8158]

I see your point but Namaari was showing that she didn’t really want to shoot her,if she did want to shoot her,she would have done it. Now that I think about it,Namaari is more in the wrong then Raya,yes she shouldn’t have pulled the tigger but Namaari shouldn’t have betrayed Raya again,yes her mum gaslit her,so I’m giving her the benefit of the doubt there but she has the capability to think about what the right thing is and still did that.

[@EllenMF12]

@@thevioletskull8158 Actually, Namaari pushed the trigger a little more before Raya acted, instead of relaxing her finger,(you can check the scene again on youtube) crossbows aren't that good, they're an old invention, if Namaari was a good person, she at least should have at anything other that their LAST HOPE, the last dragon...

[@tototats16]

@@thevioletskull8158 If Namaari wasn't planning to shoot, then her finger wouldn't be squeezing the trigger. She should have trigger discipline!

[@nicholasrodinos4701]

Namaari isn't Zuko, she's Catra, constantly blaming everyone else for her problems despite being responsible for very serious crimes.

[@Readus101]

Thanks for reminding me that I *REEEAAALLY* gotta watch She-Ra. lol

[@nicholasrodinos4701]

@@Readus101 No problem, just needed an excuse to rant about Catra's bullshit.

[@christopherbennett5858]

@@nicholasrodinos4701 We could all use an excuse to talk about Catra's BS.

[@neilagangitlog]

I disagree. Catra didn't really show regret regarding to what she did to the world, she just wants Adora. On the other hand, when Namaari saw Sisu, she started questioning if everything that her mother told to her is true. She started realizing that it's possible to save the world, not just Fang. She feels conflicted because she feels like it's the right thing to do, even though it goes against her mother's wishes. Namaari actually cares for something bigger than herself or Raya, unlike Catra. About their relationship, i don't think that they really were friends. Raya believed that they were, but Namaari didn't. She may have wanted to, but Fang was her priority. Seeing Sisu made her challenge this worldview. This cannot be said about Catra. Catra valued the relationship she had with Adora, abobe everything else. She knows and doesn't care that the Horde does horrible things. She doesn't care that she herself does horrible things, as long as she gets Adora. As of the redemption, Namaari did it not only for Raya or Fang, but for the world. In the ending, Raya and Namaari didn't continue a broken friendship - they're about to start one that is previously impossible. Also, Raya didn't really have to trust her wholeheartedly. She only have to trust her enough to know that she'll help.

[@Whosaskin]

@@Readus101 You do, it's great.

[@sheaffer117]

It's always hilarious when they try to tell you the whole point of the movie is to learn to trust. But trusting someone is what causes the problem in the first place.

[@Wolffman109]

Well, it's a toxic perspective, so I wouldn't really call it funny.

[@rizerek]

Even act one of the movie threw me off a little bit. Raya implies that her dad was too trusting multiple times, and that that was his weakness. But all he did was invite the other nations to Heart for a dinner. As far as I could tell he had no intentions of showing any of them where the stone was, he was just cautiously extending an olive branch. It was her who could only see things in black and white, and decided that since they were no longer "enemies;" this girl she just met should be shown Heart's best kept secret. That might just be the difference between the nuanced approach of an experienced adult, compared to the overly simplistic approach of a naive child.

[@luma4902]

Thiis

[@lavitorroja2632]

The scene when Namaari tries to split the blame between herself and Raya made extremely uncomfortable when I first watched the movie. She had her finger on the trigger pointing at Sisu and she had already betrayed and attempted punching Raya when she was defensless. There was literally no reason to trust that she wouldn't kill Sisu, it was all Namaari's fault.

[@catalyst_8759]

@Omnika It’s still kind of annoying though and the movie acts like Raya is really in the wrong for resenting Namaari when she was the one who started the apocalypse and killed Sisu. Plus it was pretty clear that Namaari was going to shoot Sisu either way as she was literally pointing her crossbow at her and about to pull the trigger before Raya even tried to prevent it.

[@candywolf8176]

I think both characters were at fault though I think it's more on Namaari's end as she took out the crossbow in the first place which would threaten Raya to act like that. Though Namaari did want to listen to her mother as she wanted Fangs future to be better. Her mother wanting only Fang saving the world as they broke it in the first place, they didn't want the other groups to be mad or retailiate against them anymore as before they were the ones that started this mess where people turn to stone. Therefore her mother wanted Namaari to take the dragon crystals and Sisu, Namaari originally wanting to shoot Raya. However Sisu steps in hopes of fixing this mess but in the process gets shot instead. Namaari seemed in fear and about to shoot but Raya didn't help by throwing her blade either. Though both seemed in fear of each other which caused for a huge misunderstanding and it would all go south. Not only that but gaslighting was involved instead of Namaari blaming herself, she blamed Raya for Sisu's death. There should of been an apology to redeem herself rather than saying it's also Raya's fault when she had a clear reason of why she didn't trust Namaari in the first place. In the end though both Raya and Namaari did want a better world just like what Sisu said. Both fought to save the world only Namaari went about it in the wrong way where it was selfish intentions from her mother. Story seems a bit unfair but in reality life is unfair. However I do think Fang and even Namaari herself should of atleast apologized for the things that they have done. Not every story has black and white morals but some, though there are typical selfless acts that happen. As Raya would take her leap of faith in letting Namaari to save the world, though trust doesn't usually just fall off of trees from a person that didn't trust in the first place. Without Sisu I don't think Raya would of ever trusted or forgave Namaari. ~pretty much sums up my opinion on it~

[@liliannagonzales1056]

Namaari character alternatives 1) Make her a bitter Villain that envied Raya for her better kingdom 2) Make her regret causing destroying people's live and show how traitors are not easily trusted again.

[@mrcritical6751]

3) make her a full blown indoctrinated asshole that constantly thinks she’s in the right no matter what and anything to the contrary she creates excuses to stop herself from detracting from the path she’s been raised to follow

[@drawnwithlove3499]

Or if you're actually going for a redeemed villain, maybe make her not as evil as she seems. The only instance of her non-evilness is her intentions to not actually be evil, they imply her mother is lowkey manipulative and a megalomaniac, why not riff on it? Truly abusive people are the ones who were abused in the past. Have her sympathize more for Raya's crew. Have her understand Raya more and regret her actions. Make it clear that she's a pseudo villain and that her mother is selfish as they're implying, it sounds cliche but having two pseudo villains don't work. Without something going on behind them, like backstabbing, there's no impact or meaning behind her evil. You're just gonna make her look like some girl who's truly mean, ruthless and a villain

[@PiXElATEDxPaRaDOX]

Honestly it felt like their goal may have been to make Namaari's mother more 'evil'. She is the one who told child Namaari to get the stone and also began undermining Namaari's judgement by calling it 'emotional' when she started wanting to help Raya/Sisu. I felt like that would have made the most sense for how the story seemed to be shaping up. Like Namaari clearly cared about being a leader to her people, holding dragons in high respect, but her mother seemed to constantly be the one keeping her from doing the right thing. I was more annoyed that no one even question any of the mother's motives or actions at the end of the movie, clearly she was just perpetuating the divide between all the tribes.

[@ilikethecokev2]

Disney: Hm... *NAH*

[@cainabel6356]

Namaari should have just been the main villain, and go out the same way villains go out in Disney movies. The moral of the story is that there are people that choose to be evil, not accepting they made the choice to do evil and keep on making those evil choices.

[@hellothere5871]

Namaari: *Starts an apocalypse, tries to take the stones again, kills the last dragon, and blames it on Raya when she was trying to save the world.* Movie: "rAya SHoUld hAve jUst tRusTeD hEr kID'S, sHe's nOt a BaD pErSoN."

[@TrueBlueProd]

@@WobblesandBean The moment I saw that scene, it was like a bomb going off in my head; I don't know how it's still acceptable to bungle a gray theme like that

[@cccaaa702]

I will never trust Disney again (No pun intended).

[@cybercriminal3110]

Namaari had no reason to hurt Sisu, and if Raya believed that there's good or at least common sense in Namaari, she would've realized that.

[@xCoatlicuex]

@@cybercriminal3110 Still she pointed a crossbow to her and was pulling the tigger when Raya reacted, Namari dosen't NEED a reason to hurt she just do that and the make excuses.

[@cybercriminal3110]

@@xCoatlicuex She wasn't pulling the trigger, she was just holding her finger on it, military training duh. And at first she wasn't pointing it at Sisu, she started to after Sisu made a step towards her out of self defense instinct.

[@theoneudontknow4606]

What pissed me of is at the end Namari's mom didn't even apologize to Raya dad for what she did. that was fucked up and I was pissed!!!!!

[@chaiboix]

Maybe she did later on... no need to curse :)

[@ashebennett7726]

@mxnkeyboi implying that it happened off screen is just a fancy way of saying it didn't happen at all. They shouldn't leave it up to the audience to do the work for them, that's just lazy. So let the man curse.

[@chaiboix]

@@ashebennett7726 ok thx

[@ashebennett7726]

@@chaiboix sure thing?

[@skinnypomegranate]

@@ashebennett7726 lmfao i said the same thing 😭

[@Viradectus]

Honestly, I would have loved to see Raya confront Namaari in that one scene: "No, I didn't kill Sisu, I didn't divide our nation, I didn't release a monster into our already fractured world: Sisu trusted you, and you killed her.", something along those lines, after which she walks away and we either never see Namaari again, or she comes back at the end to apologise.

[@Fingerscrossedout]

Whoops can't have the kill word in a movie but we can give bad examples for kids 👌

[@papasscooperiaworker3649]

@@Fingerscrossedout haha yeah ):

[@cesaralvarado8016]

@@Fingerscrossedout lmao, so true

[@souhiyori8032]

I really wish they come back and make really good movies with a great lesson and great story telling. Nowadays, seems like Disney has lost that spark.

[@janibii_608]

Yes all they needed was to add this at the end of the fight scene and then have Namaari sincerely apologize either while repairing the dragon gem or when they all wake up and it would have been so much better!

[@averymartin1327]

I feel Disney has a problem with trying to simplify things. This is also animation, they should really be showing rather then telling.

[@starvoltnexus3139]

So Sean Bailey again

[@drawnwithlove3499]

Exactly. I felt a bit discouraged when they just explained it with exposition in the beginning. It would have been cool if it's revealed Sisu isn't really that important (instead of her straight up saying it in the beginning). Like what if she's actually adopted but used to be a rogue dragon before her older siblings changed her, and despite her past they still entrusted her with the crystal. I think that would have been a more clever and impactful parallel and way more convincing for Raya

[@starvoltnexus3139]

@@drawnwithlove3499 ooooh

[@starvoltnexus3139]

@@drawnwithlove3499 We couldn’t even had a been the screwup and I was still would’ve worked as well which is what I thought they were going for but we didn’t see that this movie really should’ve been three hours at least or a series but of course we can’t have animated movies be longer than an 1 and a 1/2 Because kids aren’t smart enough to hold their attention that long apparently and if we proved that wrong our Career Politican overlords the Disney Higher ups and the academy and possibly The Chinese government who we should really stop trying to bend over and kiss the butt of would all have a full-blown collective Seizure

[@drawnwithlove3499]

@@starvoltnexus3139 bro I think u had a seizure but I agree. I think Sisu and Namaari should have had more moments and it would've been better if we could explore more of the side characters' backstories instead of subtext. I really think this could have worked better as a musical because songs can help explore your characters in a matter of 2 minutes or so

[@JalizScanlanProductions]

Completely agree. The fact that Naamari "plays the victim" and straight gaslights Raya's actions when she should've validated Raya and build that trust between each other again. Great video!

[@timothybaer6552]

"Naamari, remember that time you betrayed me and stole the gem?" "Yeah." "That broke?" "Yeah" "That ruined our attempt to bring peace to the tribes of this land?" "Yeah" "That led to my father's death?" "Uh-huh" "And thousands or millions of others?" "Yep" "And you've tried to kill or capture me?" "Did that too." "And now the world is filled with orphans and widows?" "Yeah..." "And then I brought the dragon back, the one that might be able to save everyone?" "Oh sure..." "But even though I was successful you wanted the gem for yourself?" "I did" "So you foolishly, through your own error killed the dragon?" "So embarrassing" "Anyway, I'm gonna trust you now." Wtf? Talk about unearned.

[@EllenMF12]

Should have this dialogue, it's so much better, at least everyone remembers all the sh- Namaari did, I can even see the shame on Namaari in here, much better than the actual ending

[@Ironorchids]

I agree. Why is it all of a sudden all the rage to forgive your abusers. Isn’t it enough just to recognize them as people, and ghost them if you really don’t want to make a thing about those who have created your trauma? Abused individuals owe nothing to their abusers and trauma isn’t a bonding experience...

[@christopherbennett5858]

If we want to get cynical about it, it probably has a lot to do with the last few decades where, more and more, abusive behavior is called out, from high profile celebrities to KZbin personalities. We should also look at areas at both sides of the political spectrum where any negative decision, no matter how positive it is in the long term, is considered bad. Plus the type of people that hate conflict in general but NEVER want to break down why conflict is had because to them it's all just "drama". Unfortunately, these people usually hang around animation fandoms like Steven Universe, Avatar and MLP.

[@ThatLoudCockatoo]

We went from telling people thst it's okay to cut toxic people out of your life to saying people should forgive those that abused them. Almost like all the people who were awful and got dumped had to go and change the message.

[@batman369able]

I think true forgiveness IS what you mentioned. Letting go and moving on with your life. Forgiving and forgetting arent the same thing unless you choose to make it that.

[@ThatLoudCockatoo]

@@batman369able People shouldn't be pressured to "take the higher road" when it comes to trauma. There is no shame in not forgiving someone that hurt you. You don't owe them that closure. That's a lesson in itself-- just because you're sorry that doesn't mean the person you hurt is going to forgive you. Moving on from something doesn't have to involve forgiving.

[@batman369able]

@@ThatLoudCockatoo that's what I'm saying. You letting go IS forgiveness. You dont have to give the other person closure in order to forgive them. Forgiveness is just not holding onto the pain. You dont have to let them back into your life. I think you might have misunderstood what I'm saying.

[@FightsRightsAlways]

I use to be best friends with my dad's best friend's daughter. We were almost like sisters, but back in 6th grade, the opportunity came to join the "cool kids" and she did this, by exposing my personal secrets and helped spread rumors about me, to gain a ticket to mean girl central and to be popular. For a long time, our parents didn't know why we wanted nothing to do with each other and would try and to get use to hang out again. It never worked, but they kept on trying. Finally in high school, she got a taste of her own mean girl medicine and found herself being picked on and fighting different people (mainly girls) for a rumor relationship, with a certain jock. Desperate for friends, she called me out of the blue and wanted to hangout. I hung up the phone. So she went through my parents and got them to talk to me about us hanging out on a weekend. That's when I decided to tell my mom what happened all those years ago. She said that she understood, but forced me to hang out with her anyway because she was having a hard time and I needed to be the shoulder she could cry on. Plus, it could reunite our old friendship. When she came over, she acted like we had always been friends, who hadn't seen each other in a couple of weeks. So I decided to asked her why she had betrayed me and thrown our friendship away to be with the popular girls years ago, and you know what she said?? That it was soooo long ago and that I needed to let go of the past and she didn't feel like it was that big of a deal. I only nodded, but when I saw my mom, I told her I would burn the house down if she ever made me hangout with her again. I had never made a threat like that in my life, ESPECIALLY towards my family. But because our families were so close and our older siblings started to date, it was put on my to "be the bigger person" and try to be cool. I told my parents no and eventually, they got the memo. Time went on and I would see her around, but I would only nod or give a casual smile. I never engaged in a real conversation with her ever again. In other words, I definitely get where Rya is coming from.

[@JohnnyBGoode-jm4qp]

You did well by removing her from your life. I wish I had your resolve. I also totally understand why Raya freaked out when Namaari took out her crossbow. I mean, this was a person who hunted Raya and ordered her gang to burn down Tong’s place to smoke her out. Disregarding the fact that there could be survivors in Tong’s place.

[@soldier9618]

Ouch

[@lowquality49]

this sounds like a plot of a 2000s high school movie btw you were too gentle with her. if she had the courage to say that in front of my mother i would have dragged her ass out my fucking house. its not about the gesture its about the DISRESPECT

[@hassanalkhalaf1115]

I'm so sorry for you. Did your mom accept the choice?

[@papasscooperiaworker3649]

You sound like you came out of a story. Except... your story is real, and that sucks real bad. I'm so sorry your (now ex-) friend told you to "just get over it". What she did was horrible, and you don't need to forgive her for what she did at all if she still doesn't have a problem with what she did to you. I hope you're doing alright these days. Hang in there, you.

[@davyjonestentacle5382]

Namaari never even said sorry. That's what I was left thinking. Not once!

[@chachated]

I was really hoping that Namaari was going to show up with her mother's piece of the gem as part of a redemption arc; showing that she is choosing to side with Raya over her mom, who is obviously evil. But seeing Namaari's mother at the end probably pissed me off more than anything in this whole movie. She is the reason Namaari had such a twisted view of everything, when Namaari came to her with news of Sisu her response is basically screw the world, they are going to be mad at us. Which is basically when the villain in any other movie says "Kill all the witnesses". I can't get over that.

[@NWolf17]

exactly! Finally someone figured out it was the mothers fault technically as what child would want to steal from another that they just met and was possibly there first friends. If people would just read between the lines they would realize it was the mother all along. This isn't a straight up cookie cutter film, you have to read in between the lines which is what made me personally like the movie.

[@kenyaaragon3944]

Honestly the only good thing I got from Raya was the fanfiction since it's far better than the actual movie

[@gabbycotto4024]

Namaari was pulling the trigger, and her first instinct when she had all the Dragon Stone pieces was to run away before she saw the hole in the wall was too small to squeeze through. She did nothing but abuse and fight Raya, chasing her across the land seemingly for no reason beyond spite in the beginning. She doesn’t deserve forgiveness, especially when she never apologized or acknowledged what she she did was even wrong (without trying to blame it on Raya.)

[@pottlekat1513]

"saw a hole in the wall" The reach, I'm fucking wheezing

[@peregry]

Err, no, she did have a reason for pursuing Raya in the first third of the movie: Raya had stolen an ancient treasure of her homeland (the dragon scroll). Should the crown princess been out chasing a thief? Probably not, but Fang had every interest in pursuing Raya to recover their stolen property.

[@Rodrigo_Vega]

When I saw it I found it pretty lame how she basically had no other choice but to accept the """"trust""" sacrifice thing. What was she even going to do even if she did fit through the rocks out on a water-less world filled with soul-sucking monsters? A redemption arc requires a _choice_ to do the right thing. She only went back to the good guys because she had no alternative. Awful, awful character and moral.

[@pottlekat1513]

@@Rodrigo_Vega She could go back to do what she originally planned before seeing Sisu, unite the gem and use it to save her people (only). She only needed Sisu to save the world.

[@Rodrigo_Vega]

@@pottlekat1513 The fragments were already losing their magic, Sisu was dead. There was nothing left in the world and nothing to protect her from the druun. She turned back because everything else seemed pointless, not because it was the right thing to do. Imagine if the movie had established she had some other selfish option that might still work, maybe she had another magical map, that could lead her to I don't know, some magical sanctuary that could give her power over the druun, or some way to save herself only. Then she could look at the map at the last minute, look at a still wide and inviting opening to escape and say "NO, _this_ time I'm doing the right thing! helping each other is where it's at!" She throws the map aside and puts her trust in the rest of the cast. That alone would have sort of fixed it.

[@throww180]

Tuk-Tuk is like the only useful animal companion in a Disney chase scene

[@andrewli6606]

Dug and Kevin would like a word with with you.

[@buca117]

As would Cri-Kee from Mulan.

[@stayfocused6moremonths111]

Maximus

[@lumauve7807]

@@stayfocused6moremonths111 yes, Maximus.

[@ziolp]

jimmy the cricket would like a word with your conscious

[@LightGlyphRasengan]

I felt that Namari should've realized that all the hate and sorrow built up in raya was due to her betrayal, and that what raya was feeling was very predictable for someone who went through trauma.

[@sofsfofs8103]

Raya was like “you need to trust people but also not. Like trust everyone but sometimes don’t, but mostly yes. But like not everyone.”

[@Wolffman109]

Well, that was confusing.

[@KnucklesxReala911]

disney pretty much did the "if you fight yoru bully, you are as gulty as them, so you both have to say you are sorry and if you don''t you are worst than them"

[@tatltails3923]

except the bully didn't even say sorry it was JUST the victim

[@demlunzel3339]

Right? Like you can’t survive without self defense But people want you to satisfy their unrealistic moral expectations

[@yan4505]

Damn that sounded like my teachers

[@thevioletskull8158]

It’s more like “If someone has hurt you and needs help it’s up to you to “fix” it”

[@demlunzel3339]

@@thevioletskull8158 Yea that’s- yikes

[@calebjackson3895]

"You're the one who killed Sisu" is the worst line ever in a Disney movie. Not only was it gaslighting Raya, but it was gaslighting me! Disney couldn't have POSSIBLY just included that line, could it? Could it?!?

[@hariman7727]

Yes. They did. Disney isn't the innocence it was back 30+ years ago. It hasn't been since the sequel era.

[@soldier9618]

It makes it worse when the boy says 'we'll never trust you'

[@papasscooperiaworker3649]

@@soldier9618 Why did they say that? Sorry lmao I don't remember that happening so I just need a reminder

[@soldier9618]

@@papasscooperiaworker3649 they said that when they were surrounded by the "droon"

[@xxstar-bluesxx]

The line cringed me, like... Namaari, you got a fucking crossbow back there

[@stoptrolling11]

They missed a good chance to make the mom make Namaari choose her people or strangers. There was literally a "What are you going to do" to her mom from Namaari and it never went anywhere. It felt like they set up a plot for the mother to make a mistake or allow Namaari to let her mother make a mistake, but that never happened.

[@kittykatpharuhs]

random side note: can we appreciate the amount of emotion these animations can make? since when have you seen a DISNEY character with so much anger?! especially the protagonist!

[@greeneyesgirl467]

Great animation wasted on a half decent story line haha

[@delireent.3960]

Raya is not really an heroine. She's not like every other Disney Princess. She's more like an antiheroine

[@Sunny-uz8cw]

“Aww... She’s gonna betray the *fuck* out of her.” Just... just take my sub, goddamnit. That was funny as shit.

[@gungrave254]

yep. it always goes one way or the other. either the new friend is gonna betray them, or new friend gonna die.

[@connorh7088]

@@gungrave254 honestly

[@senshi_dev_art]

same

[@MrSupernaturalLife]

The moment I saw the kids having fun with 0 disagreements or meaningful discussions... I had a mental whiplash to Hans's betrayal from Frozen.

[@konijnie97]

I was 100% expecting Namaari to show up, with 100% good attention, while her mother would show up cuz she figured out Namaari was there. The mom would've taken Sisu and gemstones, imprisoned Raya or something (or Raya got away with one or two pieces maybe) THEN Namaari could've ACTUALLY made a gesture of goodwill and repentance, find Raya and together bring everything back to normal. Sisu could've still gotten killed, now by Namaari's mothers's hand (also an accident) Raya could've seen Namaari make an effort to fix things, apologize. She could've learned the motivation behind it, and THEN forgive her, after Namaari would've been the one to make a gesture of faith and trust in Raya.

[@yjzhou1]

That was exactly how I envisioned the movie turning out too

[@TrueBlueProd]

I was 100% expecting that, they even leave Namaari's mother's thinly veiled threat hanging with no payoff

[@GracefullyAutistic]

Yes! That's exactly what I thought was gonna happen too! That would've been better, even if it would be predictable. The movie was already kinda predictable anyway, and at this point I think Disney is trying waaayyyy too hard to come up with 'shocking' twists to their otherwise extremely formulaic plotlines. Instead, they should just come up with more unique stories instead of it having to follow a certain formula.

[@konijnie97]

@@GracefullyAutistic Yes! I don't mind the formulatic part, cuz that's what Disney Movies are, fairytales retold in a certain way. And if they CAN add twists and changes that work, that's great! This just didn't

[@technojunkie123]

While I normally love most of Disney's movies, that whole "you're as much to blane for Sisu's death as me" line made me literally shout out loud "girl what are you talking about!??!" Namari literally caused all of this in the first place and then when she had a chance to make things right she brought a gun and made it worse, and yet somehow this all partly Raya's fault??? Make it make sense Disney 🤦🏽‍♂️

[@EllenMF12]

I agree with you but it was a crossbow, which is actually worse, since most/some guns have safety switch, crossbows, principally the ones of that old age? No safety switch, also Namaari pulled the trigger more, causing Raya to react... Disney really screwed up, like what type of moral do they want children to get? Be naive, get stabbed in the back twice, it's your fault for trusting/distrusting someone, but don't worry, the third trusting chance time is a charm?

[@tffan1029]

For me, when I saw the scene with that line, I said out loud "You were about to pull the trigger!" and I say this because before Raya tries to stop Namaari from hurting/killing Sisu, the movie shows Namaari getting closer and closer to pulling the trigger on her crossbow. If the movie wanted to blame Raya, alongside Namaari for Sisu's death in that scene, they should have shown Namaari not pulling pulling the trigger, or even at the very least, start hesitating about firing her weapon at Sisu, then maybe something else happens to make Raya react the way she did. The scene of Namaari pulling more on the crossbow trigger works against what this movie tried to do to make Raya in the wrong, along with Namaari. I've said it before on a different review of this movie, and I'll say it here: that scene needed a rewrite or two.

[@jonathanrobinson198]

I’m surprised you didn’t talk about the mama. When I saw her at the end of movie smiling I was like “Shouldn’t you be in chains!?”

[@greeneyesgirl467]

She was about to be a dictator! Lol

[@brohiddlesby7010]

The movie perhaps could’ve benefited from a narrative with the same morals centered around Raya and Namari being forced together with the dragon for the majority of the movie, rather than keep them apart.

[@shortbean0]

Sisu’s death was like 90% Namaari’s fault. OF COURSE Raya’s gonna try to stop Namaari from shooting Sisu. She was being cautious. Namaari was ONE HAIR AWAY from pulling that trigger. Raya probably should’ve aimed somewhere else but it was definitely a heat-of-the-moment type feeling.

[@papasscooperiaworker3649]

aimed where?

[@JohnDoe-vw4zf]

@@papasscooperiaworker3649 cut her hand off

[@fionamasters1822]

@@JohnDoe-vw4zf unfortunately it's Disney so that wouldn't work

[@JohnDoe-vw4zf]

@@fionamasters1822 I mean disney has a history of f up shit

[@CT--ko8js]

@@papasscooperiaworker3649 for the head like my hood buddy Thor did

[@Ubermensch9240]

"You guys talk about cooperation and teamwork, but you're all afraid. You're too scared to point your fingers at others, so you hide behind the word 'trust'." -Kokichi Oma, the Ultimate Supreme Leader

[@jenng7389]

i am so glad to see that i'm not the only one who saw it this way. i was infuriated by the betrayal and forgiveness. even in the end she was going to betray raya. she only turned around because she was trapped. she had no intention of changing and i'm positive that she's still the same person after things got better. she, nor her mother, feel like they did anything wrong

[@TrueBlueProd]

It's the metaphorical gun being pointed at the characters' heads, they HAVE to forgive the ones who wronged them or they all die; it was grossly egregious in Steven Universe and it's grossly egregious here.

[@jenng7389]

@@TrueBlueProd haven't seen Steven Universe in a long time. All seasons (and movie) need to be streamed somewhere

[@Jessicanimation]

@@jenng7389 HBO Max!

[@kolinmartz]

Also it’s so disingenuous for them to highlight Raya’s preconceived notions, biases, and prejudices against members of other tribes and immediately confirming those bias and then backpedal and say they’re only like that because of something that Raya kinda did 6 years prior. Like when Raya met river boy and was distrusting of his hospitality but he was just genuinely just a good person and was doing everything he can to survive yet he still gave them food. That. That was effective and thought provoking. But when Raya met Kung fu baby already thinking people from that kingdom were thieves and con artists.... and the first thing they do is steal her shards conforming her bias that that kingdom was a wretched hive of scum and villainy... that was weak.

[@starvoltnexus3139]

I can see that but the baby had lost her parents so she was stealing to survive and the leader of Spine It’s a booby trap is a fair thing to have even though he went Aggro which is bad but mostly he was just starved for human interaction

[@pauloforever12]

They only became their stereotype because of the doom

[@starvoltnexus3139]

@@pauloforever12 exactly

[@jaguar_8344]

Yes, but then the movie goes on to explain WHY the baby is like that. The baby then helps raya, and raya realises that she was only trying to survive in a world that SHE had caused. It’s not an admission of guilt, but an acceptance of each other’s flaws.

[@davidhobbs5679]

On the contrary it shows a very good thing, that being, stereotypes are real, but you shouldn't judge people by them, because you don't know why they are that way and often are because of things outside of their control. Case in point is the " poor african steroeotype", yes many africans are born into poverty, but its not like they can single handedly make their country rich, like wise with say Asians and math, yes alot are good at maths, because their parents make them put alot of effort into maths ect. People are a product of the world as much as they are of their own actions.

[@Jane-oz7pp]

I would like to see a children's movie that does the opposite. I wanna see a character go "No, I'm done, you don't get to hurt me anymore." Edit: I get that Spider-Man does this, but like, is the MCU really for children?

[@christopherbennett5858]

It is rated 12 at most so.... yes.

[@slashandbones13]

It is family friendly enough.

[@UncleFlutus]

How to Train Your Dragon 2 is pretty much all about the message “some people just can’t be reasoned with” and it always stuck out to me because of it

[@danielasarmiento3101]

I think Kung fu panda might have a similar message, infinity train and teen titans, maybe justice league and some other action cartoons

[@atanor9787]

Infinity Train

[@effeffiagonalick5078]

I've always despised the moral of blind forgiveness, of just "Forgive everybody no matter what they did or how bad it was! It's good for you!" Because there people who don't deserve forgiveness, especially when they do nothing to right their wrongs. It puts the expectations to be better on the person who suffered to be better, when honestly, there is no reason to be. If someone hurt you, they need to do the work to fix the damage. Not you.

[@bloodyidit4506]

There’s a difference between forgiving and being a complete doormat who so selfish and insecure about losing a friend that you’ll be friends with the freaking devil as he dances you along on a leash. Sometimes you gotta slap someone and not reward them with unrequited trust. Actions have consequences.

[@EllenMF12]

And Raya was the complete doormat in the movie, everyone throwing at her 'you need to trust' when she proven everyone just trusting someone won't make anything, really Namaari only didn't betrayed them the last time because she was stuck down with everyone else, she even tried to leave the place until she noticed she was stuck...

[@MuchAdoAboutADD]

Oh man, I thought I was the only one who was really put off by the ending. Like, this lady has betrayed you TWICE, both times to disastrous consequences involving the lost of actual people. That's incredibly damaging to tell kids to keep giving people who betray them so deeply multiple chances in the hope that they might do good one day.

[@hariman7727]

I know from experience that attempting to forgive the people who abused you and trying to stay in contact with them often only ends with you hurting yourself and tearing yourself up inside. Sometimes, the bridge isn't just burned, but the foundation is raised and the ground beneath is salted so that building a new foundation for a bridge will take years of effort from the abuser. And that description isn't hyperbole. It's how I honestly feel about certain people who were in my life.

[@thunderbird1921]

Tangled the Series did the exact same thing. Cassandra had essentially become hate and rage on legs, but Rapunzel kept believing "she is still there". Sure enough, Disney has her be magically redeemed and happy. A VERY bad message to kids. All one has to do is watch Moby Dick (ESPECIALLY the 1956 film) to see what can happen to those who keep following and trying to reason with someone unreasonable.

[@demlunzel3339]

@@thunderbird1921 Cassandra never even apologized to anyone except Rapunzel Not to mention she only ‘redeemed’ herself after Zhan Tiri betrayed her She literally was about to go on with destorying Corona and it’s ppl with *glee* and then when the Zhan Tiri betrayed her, she started crying and gaslit Rapunzel into comforting her, and basically ran from all consequences I have so many issues with that series It ruined the movie that made me realize I was being abused to begin with They degraded Eugene into comedic relief and queerbaited the audience by making the whole series about Rapunzel and Cass Fuck they had an ep where they basically redid the movie but fucking replaced Eugene with Cassandra- who treated Rapunzel like shit in the end They did Eugene dirty

[@thunderbird1921]

@@demlunzel3339 As a guy, I am SO SICK of Disney making their male characters dumb, jokes or jerks. They did it to Kristoff also in Frozen 2, he comes across as an IDIOT in that film at times. Can't guys and gals both be strong and mutually support each other on-screen these days? A true heroine does not need weak men around her to be strong.

[@demlunzel3339]

@@thunderbird1921 “A true heroine does not need a weak men around her to make her seem strong” SAY IT LOUDER Honestly. Plus I loved Eugene’s character in the movie, he could’ve been such a good rolemodel for young boys Instead they showed him to be a joke

[@mariequeerie4645]

So I’m about to get personal. I was wondering why I was struggling with this film. My girlfriend of almost 2 years dumped me a week ago after having me move in with her and discussing marriage and making a life together. She dumped me out of the blue (and no, there were no signs). And now I have to scramble to find a place to live and replace everything I got rid of to combine our households. I am displaced without a home or the dog we adopted together. To say I felt a deep betrayal of trust is an understatement. Raya’s betrayal hit a little close to home.

[@gretelandcat6393]

I'm sorry to hear you went through all that. I hope you can get things sorted out in the future🌸

[@MrDeloty]

I`m genuinly sad to hear that, you deserve so much better. Wish you all the best

[@HanQ28]

I'm so sorry this happened to you. Do you have laws in your country/state that protect the rights of people in de facto relationships? I'm not a law expert at all but this sounds very wrong, even just legally speaking. If you're struggling a lot financially, maybe consider filing a case against your ex to get some properties or other entitlements of yours back?

[@Haildawn]

She owes you an explanation. At the very least you deserve to know why.

[@MASTEROFEVIL]

I'd be more pissed then sad

[@vouriequatte]

that's the reason why i felt so uncomfortabe w the movie, it was practically gaslighting the main character lmao it almost had the same feeling of watching midsommar

[@brookesimms4558]

This. I felt so uneasy leaving the theater. I would never, ever want my family to put trust in someone holding a gun to their head. I felt so much like they were telling us to trust and be okay with our oppressors. Next time someone holds a gun to your head, just trust them.

[@abyssGazerTV]

The message of trust would’ve been better if the characters didn’t constantly betray each other for no reason at all.

[@Fingerscrossedout]

👀So true

[@xxstar-bluesxx]

Well, in Namaari's situation before. She's the princess of Fang, which means the people of Fang rely on her and have bigger expectations on the Royal Fang Family... which also means, once they get an invitation from Heart, that would mean that the people around them will start planning on stealing the dragon gem... And Namaari never had rice before, so that's also a problem signal, that the tribe might be struggling. If the family ever eats rice, it will become Fang's fortune food. But if they took the dragon gem in one piece, things will be a lot easier for them. And I think that's why Namaari had to betray Raya in the beginning.

[@mathieuwilkens3721]

@@xxstar-bluesxx Chose to. definitely NOT had to.

[@Venus-me7vx]

@@xxstar-bluesxx you missed the point of the whole movie. it wasn't the gem that allowed Heart to prosper but the people and how they wanted to make peace with the rest of the tribes. Fang, Spine, Claw and Tail failed to understand that and that's why they struggled when in reality the only reason they struggled was because they divided themselves from the rest of the world. Fang CHOSE to steal the gem when they could have just trusted Heart and unite as Kumandra once more

[@MintyCow101]

In frozen 2 when Elsa and annas parents are just seen as loving, like we suppose to ignore how they locked their daughter up and made her afraid of her own powers? they taught her conceal dont feel :/

[@universalpower419]

The locked her while they were searching a way to control her powers, but they died while doing it. Elsa can kill anyone by just moving his fingers, a monster like her deserved that.

[@twinyang1770]

@@universalpower419 Dude, Elsa was a CHILD. Maybe she was dangerous and had to be kept away from others to protect them, but she was a child that didn't get to choose to have powers. She was not a monster, and did not deserve to be isolated.

[@dearthofdoohickeys4703]

Pretty sure that “conceal don’t feel” was a placeholder until they figure it all out. But because they died, Elsa just kept following those instructions longer then she was supposed to. Besides she just about killed Anna _twice_ , so it’s not like their viewpoint had no merit.

[@alexandersmith4731]

@@dearthofdoohickeys4703 How long did they figure things out? Quite long, they were gone when Elsa was around her late teens, that's a heck of a long time to be counted as a placeholder, 90% of Elsa's problem came from their words and action, and the second movie scrubbed it clean by not mentioning the Conceal dont feel part

[@postgoat5765]

If I'm not mistaken, weren't the trolls the ones who told them to do that? Like of course they're gonna listen to the trolls after their child put their other child in a mini coma, and the ones who revived her were infact the trolls.

[@moneyisnowhere]

Namaari: *Betrays Raya again* Me: Wowww, didn't see that one coming -__-

[@synsyin4725]

I was so annoyed that at the end, it was like "Raya you are equally to blame for the dragon gem getting broken as Namaari is" ... WHAT?? Bullcrap! No she isn't, sure she was a naive little kid for showing them the dragon gem at the beginning but it was obviously Namaari and her mom who are to blame. The fact that Namaari didn't actually apologize before Raya took the blame for Sisu's death was frustrating. Overall, me and my parents agreed this movie could have been better in a lot of ways. I personally feel like it could have been a really cool episodic show so we'd have more time to develop each place and build Raya's relationship with Namaari in a way that does less harm, too.

[@maikurumi5277]

I feel that Raya and the Last Dragon had so much potential. But as a show rather than a movie. It seriously gave me Avatar; The Last Airbender vibes. I can imagine Raya, Cisu, and Tuk Tuk traveling the world to save humanity, picking up stray ppl from each nation. As a movie, it felt rushed. There wasn't enough time for proper exploration of each nation to get good world building nor enough time for a proper redemption for Namari. I can only imagine how ground breaking and fantastic this movie would've been if it were a show.

[@Tywyll]

Maybe we'll be super-lucky and get a TAngled series out of it?

[@princesseuphemia1007]

I agree. After seeing the movie I had the same thought.

[@user-xn9vp3xe4x]

For me, I see it as a trilogy

[@TheDrexxus]

So all her assumptions about those strangers were 100% accurate, except while speaking to them she found out they all used the excuse of "my family is gone" to justify what they do.

[@mathieuwilkens3721]

Exactly. Justifications for villains is disneys favorite thing these days. The movie Maleficent made my fuckin skin crawl. Remember everyone, disney says its okay to be an asshole as long as you have a good reason!

[@justcuz2105]

@BoJack Horseman how do I explain this People who like something will ignore all the toxic messages and characters People who don't, will call out what's wrong with it, which is why if you see a discussion about Itachi from the perspective of a non Naruto fan, you'll mostly just see people calling him crazy and evil

[@egopathtime3273]

Exactly!!!! Her gut feeling was 100% right and the movie gaslights the hero into believing they need to be a sheep and not listen to their gut feeling. This is 1984 Dystopia Doublethink propaganda. How was this not written by a manipulative bully? Seriously!

[@EagleEye-rw5pn]

@@justcuz2105 Itachi is a cool/chill Dude he actually has a good reason and gained his Redemption they never even say that the village forgive him or know him wich is Why His a great character unlike some guy who is mad at the world just because his girl friend die and then trying to justify it with series of flashback that start getting annoying

[@justcuz2105]

@@EagleEye-rw5pn Itachi also abused his brother throughout the entire show, for no real reason either, making Sasuke a broken sociopath was not part of his big brain plan

[@ryancollins3050]

SPOILERS FOR AVATAR AND RAYA: I feel the difference between Prince Zuko and Namari, is that in Avatar, not trusting zuko is the sensible thing. That his mistakes are still a problem, whether or not he turned into a good person. In Raya, not trusting Namari is seen as Raya’s fault. That she should have been more open, and that could’ve prevented Sisu’s death. It’s bizarre that not trusting someone who betrayed you, leading to the death of your father is the morally bad thing to do in this movie. Like could you imagine if when Zuko tried to join the gang, everybody was just like ok with it, and everybody thought Katara was morally wrong for not wanting Zuko to join? And Zuko just started saying that the gang was responsible for the fall of ba sing se too.

[@adrigl3371]

When Naamari tried tho share the blame for Siso's death with Raya I screamed “BUT YOU WERE THE ONE WITH THE FINGER ON THRIGGER YOU IDIOT!”, you don’t point a gun(or a crossbow) to something or someone you are not willing to destroy, and she was pointing it to the literal savior of the world, who in their right mind would trust her?

[@nightmarefanatic1819]

AND what set Raya off was she was PULLING THE TRIGGER. Raya's fault my ass.

[@sandwichdelta]

I'm so glad someone is saying what I was thinking after finishing this movie. The theme was so muddled. I honestly think Namaari should've been the protagonist. It would've been a much more impactful message to have Namaari trying to fix the world after she helped break it, while Raya's valid distrust festers over the years, and ends up hindering her efforts as the two of them clash. Imagine how interesting it would've been to see Namaari fighting to make Raya understand that her intentions have changed, all the while internally struggling with what her mother expects of her and what she thinks is best for her people. Redemption arcs don't work when we don't know the character, and especially when the narrative frames the victim as the one that needs to forgive without the forgiveness being earned.

[@mrssallybrown619]

Ooohhh! Yes! This! That would have been a much more amazing story!

[@Killjoy_Mel]

Yeah. Frankly Namaari makes a much more compelling and motivated protagonist, with much more powerful messages than Raya. Namaari's story could be one with redemption that could also possibly look into the fact that Heart WAS far more prosperous, and mighty snide about it, than all of the other nations. I mean, look at how the other nations are described from Heart's perspective! Thugs, schemers, thieves and morons. The themes of knowing that your own nation's prosperity come at the expense of other nations ailing or falling would all be there with Fang too post-apocalypse. Grappling with knowing how that privilege came to be, what it cost. Atoning for it, and for helping cause so much grief and destruction. Working hard to get Raya to trust her so that they could restore the world, THAT is powerful. Hell, even standing up to her manipulative mother who took advantage of their relative disprivilege pre-apocalypse to get her child to betray Raya, and actively continues to prevent Namaari from doing the right thing... It'd be a hell of a narrative of owning up to your past mistakes, trying to undo them, and maybe even learn a lesson that you can't unmake everything, and not everyone's gonna forgive you. This movie didn't need a 'villain', it could've been something like Frozen instead. But nope.

[@mrcritical6751]

If anything this should have been a movie about trauma. Keep the backstory the same but then switch it to focus on Namaari instead where she becomes disillusioned and spiteful of her own clan after what she did as a kid and wants to fix it so fills Raya’s role but is more passive and tries to handle matters peacefully because of how mistrust and hatred caused the problem in the first place. Meanwhile Raya has become spiteful and distrusting of everyone and blames the other clans for what happened so takes on a more villainous role where she’s planning on stopping Namaari so the rest of the clans will die off as vengeance for what happened when she was a child Then it becomes more a story of forgiveness and redemption as Namaari has to earn Raya’s trust and help her redeem herself because she has seen the path that hatred sends you down from her mother and doesn’t want Raya to fall into it and become a monster

[@hollywoodstar6421]

@@mrcritical6751make this happen. Just call it something else because I want to read or watch THIS version.

[@derekberry6122]

I wish Raya would've went off on Namaari and said something like"I'm the criminal, you and your people took everything from me and doomed my own people. My my friends everyone I know is gone because of you and your own people. I am just trying to fix the world and the mistakes that you and your mother committed against me and everyone around here. Because of you the dream is now out and destroying this world. so what are you doing to rectify it?". Which would lead to more compelling arguments. Like Raya comparing Narmaari's action to the Drums to Sisu. Can Sisu forgive the Drunes for doing what they did to the world?

[@hanging_lights3619]

If this happened it would have hit so hard oml

[@yadava9696]

@@hanging_lights3619 did I just read a comment that disneyed better than Disney? Yes, I did. :)

[@neutronalchemist3241]

The Druuns had been created by the human hatred and distrust. They are not sentient, ad Raya is responsible for their existence like Namaari is. Since the humans' hatred and distrust had not been cured, all of the Dragons' magic was required to keep the Druuns at bay. For 500 years the Humans had been parasites on the Dragons' sacrifice, without having learnt anything. The second time, it had been the Humans, the last remainants of the five tribes, to make the same act of selfless sacrifice the Dragons did before, entrusting who seemed the least fit for the part (Namari, who had not even apologised for what she did, and rebutted to Arya accuses) to carry on the final act, so, that time, the Dragons' magic had been enough. Namaari couldn't be excluded, like Sisu couldn't. The moment Raya gave her piece of the gem to Namaari, Raya's life had been "perfected". Because she had not let the past wrongdoing of others to dictate her path. Raya had done all that she had to. In Buddhist philosophy, Namaari returning the favour or not, at that point, was irrelevant. Only when all the others did the same thing, the last remaining one, the least fit for the task, did what was right too.

[@SergeyBerengard]

Moral of the story is you need to trust people even after they betray and screw you over again and again because........ reasons? Yeah, that's not how this works.

[@KirkWilliams300]

Also got to love Namaari’s mom, she actively avoided the idea of fixing the gem as she was afraid of the retaliation she would receive when the other tribes were revived. She was just so content with brainwashing her people into believing she’s a wonderful and heroic person since there was no one to speak otherwise. It’s all so very sinister and sickening.

[@ragnell27]

It feels like Disney is trying to restore trust in themselves by telling us to blindly trust them.

[@universalpower419]

That's stupid, Disney doesn't need your "trust" xD

[@ragnell27]

Touché. However, they do need customers and lately their films have been very bland or felt very forced.

[@lionelbokeli4018]

@@universalpower419 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joke

[@ziglaus]

@@ragnell27 they have no shortage of costumers either.

[@ragnell27]

@@ziglaus true, but what happens when the customers grow bored of the content. Disney’s story arcs have all had the same basic outline. They have the villains die less and less. And they focus more and more on shoving a lesson down the audience’s throats. I will admit that Raya is a step in the right direction as it is a new IP. But the story became way too predictable. If Disney actually put some consequences for character actions (dragon permanently dead, Numari never trusted again, no dragons return), the story would have been more enjoyable and believable.

[@ChaplainRaziel01]

I can see that forgiveness and trust is a two way street, but when Namaari blamed Raya isn’t that just gaslighting?

[@tayh.6235]

Gaslighting is when someone is purposely trying to make you question your sanity. Lashing out irrationally because you're being cornered (and rightfully so in her case) is a normal defense mechanism that people have to be mature to get past. Also, from her messed up point of view, she probably has kind of convinced herself of what she's saying.

[@julia-if5dm]

the ending was so underrated and felt very rushed was kinda disapointed when i finished whatching and also??? why wasnt raya the one to put the pieces together? namaari giving her the piece and apologizing and sacrifising herself and showing her she changed wouldve been so much better!!

[@yeeoze]

this whole video made clear exactly what irked me about the movie. We were totally missing raya and namaari literally just having ONE conversation. I was sooooo confused between when sisu was shot and their fight after I felt so blindsided like I missed something, so this video really clears up how/why I was so confused

[@yoooidkyou]

Namaari should be healed accountable. She never apologized. I don’t think raya was wrong to have no trust in her. I admit she was scared and sisu got shot but I can’t blame her. Namaari betrayed her trust and never said sorry for what she did. What happened with namaari is the reason everyone including her dad were turned into stone. It basically telling you to forgive the people who traumatized you like no. Namaari should have apologized, she caused raya major trauma. HOW IS RAYA IN THE WRONG FOR NOT BLINDLY TRUSTING HER LIKE SISU DID, she doesn’t trust her because the last time she did namaari ruined her life and many more. Raya is in the right

[@lagopusvulpuz1571]

“Trust anyone”, especially at strangers, it’s not a good lesson for young kids like the opposite our parents taught us.

[@ShinobiPXO]

Is "trust no one" a better lesson?

[@Valakideki]

Trust is earned

[@greenmanatee3368]

@@ShinobiPXO or maybe...just maybe......it's okay to trust some people, but not blindly trust everyone since real life isn't some black-and-white fairy tale where you either trust everyone or no one

[@ShinobiPXO]

@@greenmanatee3368 Uh huh. And this story definitely is a black-and-white message of trust? Sorry, but there is more nuance than that. Sishu trusts people blindly and we DO see that this does get in her into trouble when she nearly got caught in the lake town and Raya saved. Likewise, Raya trust Sishu blindly, doesn't she? Because....she's Sishu. They clearly don't have the same approach, yet Raya trusts that Sishu can save the world, as long as they do it Raya's way. We also see the folly of mistrust. When they go to the Tail Chief, who starved to death because they couldn't get past their own booby traps that they built to keep people out. So in that instance, paranoia was their own downfall. Is that black and white? Sishu also did not trust Namaari blindly. She wanted to give her a chance after seeing the look on her face when they first meet. You can say that's a a risk, but the reality is that is indeed what trust is. It's a risk. There is no guarantee trust won't be broken. The Tribes obviously trusted each other in the past but not anymore. The trust they had is gone because it's permanent flip of a switch. Trust is something that you need to monitor and maintain. And then there's the whole idea of getting trust back. If it's broken once, can it be restored? The only way to know if Namaari could be trusted was to give her another chance, which is what Sishu was trying to do. Raya could not take the chance and so attacked first, but this only results in Sishu's death. Raya did not trust in Sishu's plan, so is not a form of betrayal too?

[@TarsonTalon]

@@ShinobiPXO If you're playing 'Among Us'.

[@katyajohnson2299]

I actually didn't notice this at first but once you started talking it clicked and I agree. As someone who has been repeatedly bullied and backstabbed by someone I wish I had noticed this on my own but I'm glad this video came up in my recmomendations. And your right they should of handled this better, and while kids may not understanding the complexities of trauma they do understand apologies.

[@Blitzkrieg_Wolf]

How it started: "I'm gonna hate this movie due to Rule 34 artists stealing that Dragon's innocence." How it's going: "I really hate this movie's mixed signals regarding traumatically impacted characters and the process of healing deep emotional wounds."

[@orio-kami7601]

...Do I want to know what is rule 34? You don't make it sounds okay

[@Blitzkrieg_Wolf]

@@orio-kami7601 rule 34 of the internet: "if it exists on the internet, there is some form of porn of it".

[@orio-kami7601]

@@Blitzkrieg_Wolf I knew I wouldn't like it. Thanks for the explanation!

[@Blitzkrieg_Wolf]

@@orio-kami7601 no problem

[@kenyaaragon3944]

Before: really hope rule 34 stays away from the dragon After: I'm so glad there's fanfiction so i can get some closure

[@raulfreeman313]

This is why the movie would have worked better if it was a series, because not only can they explore more with each tribes and the lore, but they can also expand on what Raya and Namaari REALLY want. Because so far, the movie's motivation to move forward is because of the parents, Raya's father wanted the world to unite and Namaari's mother wanted the power all for themselves, and each of them followed the path of what their parents wanted. Raya at the end really didn't want to forgive namaari, but she was forced to by her fathers wishes (and extinction). Namaari really genuinely would have been Raya's bestfriend if it weren't for her mother's brainwashing. It was still a great movie though, the highlights for the movie really was the visuals and the animation, I really can't stop rewatching because of their expressions and the choreography of the action scenes, and Raya herself. GOD she's so beautiful what the f@$#.

[@dklir]

I actually thought too, that it would be right for it to be a series

[@itskarinbruvs]

I imagine that it'd be like Tangled the series

[@t3tsuyaguy1]

"This is why the movie would have worked better if it was a series" I would subscribe to a new streaming service just to watch a series about the world they created in this movie.

[@annaemmons3490]

Yesss! I just commented about the need for it to have been a series too lol. Sorry I didn’t read this before commenting whoops. Little bit of different reasoning though.

[@mjc.bughao7441]

True and same. They should've made it into a 12 episode series, that centers around in establishing their characters and world, also fixing Raya's and Namaari's relationship. And the 12 episode is the ending finale that's stylized more like a short movie

[@sketchydez4106]

imo a big problem with Raya's distrust in others during the film was that it was being treated like a character flaw, portraying her as irrational or unforgiving. Distrust born from trauma is a literal survival instinct, not something silly that the victim should be demonized for. Having everyone just be like "yOu nEeD tO bE MoRe tRuStiNg" doesn't help the victim work through their trauma in any way.

[@jsxnjsxnxn2305]

I think they had a really good opportunity to show an in between...Raya and Sisu were both on opposite extremes of the spectrum of trusting people. So they had a great chance to be like, Raya learns to trust just enough again, and Sisu learns to put up boundaries just enough..... everyone is learning to move into a healthy direction in a healthy way, no one is having to forgive the most toxic person in their lives....... Disney really missed the opportunity to do something like that and send a healthier message of balance instead of yet another point of an extreme which is unhealthy

[@3Andzia3]

TBH an easy fix if they didn't want to go into complexities was to split Namaari into two characters. One who betrayed Raya, and one who genuinely wants to help. Maybe an older and younger sibling. Raya would need to learn to trust the younger sibling, and the older might be the one after her head. This could keep the "don't distrust people who didn't hurt you" theme consistent.

[@michaeldesario3119]

Since Disney believes that “We the People” should continue to trust after a “History of Abuse of Power” ... Does that mean if a woman with history of an abusive husband should continue to forgive and live with it through her life? ... Does that mean a man/woman with a spouse who continues to cheat repeatedly with multiple partners deserves to be forgiven again and again? I REST MY CASE. THAT IS ALL.

[@matchamochi781]

I’ve always forgave but not forgot. I can forgive people for what they have done, but not put myself in a situation again. The idea of I forgave your past action but I’m not willing to put myself in that situation ever again. I believe forgiveness is simply not holding vengeance to do what others have done to you. Forgiveness is not excusing actions, you can forgive someone but then set boundaries. Forgiveness doesn’t mean to forget what happened. Forgiveness is mostly for ones self, not to let the hurt that other put of you define you. You can forgive someone but that doesn’t mean you have to stay with them. That isn’t how forgiveness is suppose to work. I almost feel that I am keeping myself in a cage of hate, and then when I let go of wanting to hurt like I’ve been hurt I am free from shackles. The pain felt is valid but I know that vengeance always seems better than it is. From my experience, I have a disability and I was bullied for it and and verbally and psychologically abused over it, luckily nothing physical. Forgiving meant I wasn’t going to stoop to their level and treat them the way I was treated, because I would feel like literal garbage to be exactly like them. So instead I got out of that situation let them face their consequences because the actions were still not excusable and forgiveness isn’t a shield from consequences. I just simply didn’t wish to do the same. And all the philosophy I’ve read states that is forgiveness. Not to allow it to keep happening, but just not making them pay their debt. Which would be like punching someone who punched you. In my case it’s verbally harassing people over their looks. I actively made that decision. And I hope those people who did that to me are not burning in the pits of hell but rather have had a change of heart.

[@sophiaabubakar2631]

Forgiving doesn't equate staying back. Forgiving someone is even for our own good as it helps us let go of the bitterness, while we physically disassociate ourselves from harm. What is the point of walking away from a bitter person and home, if I'm still going to spend every waking moment hating and having bitter thoughts about the person?

[@shawnculpepper4589]

Forgiveness is not for the person who did the wrong, but for the person who has been wronged.

[@angelsmusic2560]

Can you forgive someone and not get back together with them?

[@angelsmusic2560]

@@shadow4040 Just because someone forgives someone does not mean they are still their friend. Forgiveness prevents bitterness

[@tempesttossed6029]

Spoilers: When Namaari told Raya "You killed Sisu because you didn't trust her," I yelled out-loud "what the fuck??" My friends didn't understand until I put it this way; say you have a friend who is dope at de-escalation, and they didn't tell you. That friend says "trust me, I know what will happen" and then walks into the gun man's personal space. They get shot because you could see the one with the gun starting to aim down their sights and jumped to save your friend. Then the gun man says "Why didn't you trust your friend to stop me?" Like, yeah maybe Raya shouldn't have jumped to save Sisu, but she saw Namaani starting to pull the trigger. You don't get time to react in that situation and also Sisu didn't have a track record yet for reliably de-escalating a situation. And the worst part is how unrealistic it would be for Namaani to say/know that Sisu was trying to talk her down and would have done so successfully without intervention. BS all around.

[@semipunch857]

Namaari shoots the dragon with a cross bow* blames Raya for her shooting the dragon*

[@Shadednecros]

As someone that has had a fair share of emotional scars through abuse, it absolutely infuriates me when people expect me to just shrug it off and move on. You cannot expect me to completely trust, let alone forgive someone that shows no attempt to acknowledge what they did was wrong. People always make excuses and act like I'm the bad guy.

[@gkagara]

Well non intentional killing still count as murder, it is actually burden you must bear, it is a mistale but still you cannot be like that everytime.

[@Shadednecros]

@@gkagara I'm sorry, but could you elaborate. Maybe I'm just having an off day, but I couldn't fully comprehend what you said.

[@Shadednecros]

@@WobblesandBean Nice to know someone knows understands what I've gone through to some degree. Such scars are long lasting and could be something I may struggle with for the rest of my life. My problems had been caused by parents that had their own problems, yet took it out me, with my dad being the worst offender. I don't know the context of what you have been through, but I do hope you at least find a way to heal those scars some day.

[@christophershafer1857]

"Remember kids, always trust everyone at all times even after they stab you in the back! You probably deserve it for feeling normal human emotions!"

[@manthelorian4163]

"it takes effort" you saying "sorry", "you are important, you are a family", "i love you" these words are empty without effort.

[@Amaquieria]

This movie really felt like it was meant to be a series but then had to be condensed into a movie.

[@DemonEyes02]

I agree. I mean on a very spiritual level I get that trying to save a soul is an amazing thing of infinite worth, BUT the very practical part of me thinks that sometimes there are some people are toxic and are dangerous enough they need to be treated as a cancer. Especially if the victimizer isn't even capable of recognizing that they did something wrong.

[@kylewoodowens4488]

Hollywood, mainstream media/journalism and all of these cults communities are a perfect example of this.

[@nodishtoodeep3053]

There are people who are just aligned evil either by the ignorance or the intention of their actions. They do not believe that their actions are hurtful in nature and thusly blissful of their impact in other people’s lives. These people must be cut from your life for your own safety and well being. These people cannot be saved as they must be willing to express desire to change, they must be willing to truly change. I believe it’s a sad fact of life that there are people in this world who are there just to hurt others and should not be shown the benefit of trying to be helped as they would not reciprocate the effort.

[@alyssapinon9670]

Honestly I interpreted as that people do deserve a second chance IF they realize the errors of their ways, actively work to improve themselves, fix their mistakes, and accept that they don’t automatically deserve forgiveness for doing the bare minimum

[@bravelittleroomba]

It may be a Disney movie aimed at kids but even kindergarten teaches you that you're supposed to say you're sorry when you hurt someone. Agreeing with you 100%

[@bIuecrimson]

“One 'Aw, Shit' Wipes out a Thousand Attaboys” 9:05 The victim puts effort into trust, but the abuser needs 1000x the effort to regain that trust.

[@elissao.6585]

My dad always told me: "Never Trust Anyone". This movie really challenged that, lmao. I disliked the part where Nemari accused Raya of also partaking in the dragon's death. Raya was protecting and Nemari seemed pretty serious about taking the shot. She should have APOLOGIZED! Raya resolved everything, despite experiencing the trauma.

[@matchamochi781]

Forgiveness to me is not necessarily letting someone back into my life, but rather letting go of vengeance on that person. I feel that wanting harm for another, from past experiences ends up hurting me more then the person who I hated. It was like drinking a bottle of poison and expecting the other person to die. Forgiveness was letting go of what the other did to wrong me, not so much for their sake, but for my own. Letting this person shackle me and keep me in a state of hated only hurt me. I did not let them in my life, they never apologized, but I didn’t let the bitterness control me and instead moved on to better myself. I hope that someday they can change their ways as well. For the people around them sake, and their own. Being a hurtful person in its self hurts. When I was angry At then I was hurtful as well, and it’s not healthy. I welcome change in another and I forgave or rather let go of the vengeance I wanted but I am not foolish and I won’t let it happen again. Forgiveness doesn’t mean to forget what has happened and let someone do it again.

[@MahouShoujo-Studios]

But when and if I don't want to forgive someone, I want people to respect that.

[@angelsmusic2560]

@@MahouShoujo-Studios Again forgiveness is not letting them back into your life. No one has to freaking know that you forgave a person or not. That is your business. Plus people don't have to respect your decision not to forgive. Especially if you are still bitter about it.

[@MahouShoujo-Studios]

@@angelsmusic2560 1. I never said anything about staying with a person or letting them back into my life. 2. My family would obviously know since it has something to do with that. 3. Why wouldn't I be bitter about my cousin exploiting me as a young teen? Or my dad abusing me and neglecting me all my life? People should respect the fact that people aren't always in the place to forgive, and if you don't respect that then you're a toxic person. Why would I not want people to respect my desicion? Why am I obligated to forgive my abusers for messing up my life? You don't always have to forgive people. You can just cut them off and not speak to them ever again. I'm not saying that people shouldn't forgive, but it is a choice, not an obligation. Anyone who feels like a person needs to forgive or feels entitled enough to ignore a person's request is equally as bad as the perpetrator. I'm tired of forgiving people and not one is entitled to forgiveness. Everyone wants to hold everyone accountable except for the actual abuser all the time. Forgiveness has done nothing for me.

[@angelsmusic2560]

@@MahouShoujo-Studios I am not talking about your situation. Generally speaking, just because you forgive someone, does not mean you have to have a relationship with them or even like the person. You don't even have to see them ever again. And no your family does not have to know if you forgave the person or not. That is your business. Plus being bitter will affect how you treat other people that have nothing to do with your molestation or abuse. It does not give you an excuse to treat other people like crap. And no, no one is obligated to respect your decision because no one has to know your decision.

[@MahouShoujo-Studios]

@@angelsmusic2560 1. I'm only bitter towards those who've hurt me, I would never and have never treated any of my feelings towards to people around me. Heck, I barely let them know what I'm thinking half the time, rather it's good or bad. My family is important, meaning I have to tell them the situation or what happened (I'm not 18 yet, so I kinda can't move out). I have no means of communicating with my perpetrator unless it's through my family. I apologize for ranting and I get all that you're saying, but still, no one is obligated to forgive anyone, especially when they don't want to. I agree, no one should be directing their bitterness towards anyone who wasn't a direct cause or treat others poorly. I can get behind that. What I can't get behind is making it seem like everyone should just forgive everyone. Life just isn't that simple. I'll still be hurt and still have been hurt, even after "forgiving" the people who caused the situation. Maybe I'm apathic, but it does nothing for me in the long run but make me feel as though I'm being stomped on like a door mat and used. Not everything works for everybody.

[@Sage-ui4hu]

I agree with you 100%. I just watched it and it was such an uncomfortable feeling watching Disney try to push toxic relationships and not honoring healthy boundaries. I would never want to teach my child that if somebody abuses them they should go back for more.

[@blackwisdom2780]

yEsss!

[@hariman7727]

I wholeheartedly agree. I know from experience that keeping toxic people in your life will only hurt you, and that completely disconnecting from those people is often the only solution.

[@souhiyori8032]

Disney becomes terrible as year passes by. This lesson isnt a good one at all, but a terrible one.

[@gtoyadhatagyab8013]

I mean... If someone hurt you in any way, it's good to forgive them, that makes you a better person, but to trust that person again is a whole different matter.

[@coldstuff9784]

Exactly.

[@sagaxion7455]

“People SHOULD be doubted. Many people misunderstand this concept. Doubting people is just a part of getting to know them. What many people call ‘trust’ is really just giving up on trying to understand others, and that very act is far worse than doubting. It is actually ‘apathy.”

[@casir.7407]

exactly. as soon as it was over my pa said "well this is going to make kids make a lot of dumb choices". as much as i like the discourse of "raya and namaari are so gay and in love!!!!!" i cant really get into it since the *redemption arc* of namaari is not an arc at all. while her animation, expressions and gestures do tend to portray namaari as regretting the situation, she definitely did not earn the blind trust of raya. i do believe that, if namaari actually actively disagreed with her mother and tried to reach out to raya to apologize, and that even while raya wanted revenge namaari attempted to apologize again, showing how truly sorry she was, especially after realizing the devastation of the druun on the other kingdoms and just how brutal the actions of her people, refusing to reach out to others, could be... maybe then, raya could react more on instinct when she saw namaari too close to sisu, and then raya's defensiveness would become truly unneeded and dangerous to both herself and to others. perhaps, if namaari then had to prove to raya, by giving her the last piece of the gem, that she had changed and decided to trust instead of attack, raya would have a change of heart. because really, what happened to namaari from the death of sisu until raya and her fought in the palace? what did she do? how did she react? didnt she realize anything was wrong with how she acted? and if she did, why, Why did she engage with raya in the fight? why, as you have said, must raya be the one to give herself to trust someone who never tried to trust her back? pd., this is endemic i think with the way we are conceiving redemption plots and the like in media. theres a great video by princess weekes talking about it, but i just think that people, especially female characters, are too often expected to give people who hurt them another chance, when those people never gave them an inch in the first place. whether its a man/potential romantic partner, a mother/parent figure, or a friend, nobody should be given the benefit of the doubt again and again if they have harmed someone. actions should have consequences. and being wary around them is not being defensive, is a natural response.

[@gabbycotto4024]

“raya and namaari are so gay and in love!!!” Beyond being grossly fetishizing, this view is just wrong. Raya spent 6 years of her life hating Namaari justifiably, and Namaari was introduced trying to hunt down and kill her for seeming no reason in the first act. Raya only reaches out to her again during the apocalypse and at Susi’s urging. And speaking of Susi; Hello! Goofy, pure-hearted, beautiful, water dragon god that does the leg work of helping Raya is right there! She even has a human form for the cowards that don’t like non-human pairs! If you want lesbian rep in this movie go with the actual loving relationship, not the toxic “bulldyke” stereotype that never apologizes and is only brought into the hero’s fold as a final desperate option!

[@Akusteisha]

@@gabbycotto4024 Thank you 👏

[@papasscooperiaworker3649]

What's a PA?

[@casir.7407]

@@papasscooperiaworker3649 dgdggd sorry, its how i call my dad. short for papá

[@randomcomment1286]

@@gabbycotto4024 I agree that RayaxNamaari is a toxic ship! Though, I can't bring myself to ship Raya and Sisu romantically, since Sisu is like a thousand years old, but if that wasn't the case I'd ship it in a heartbeat, at least in comparison to RayaxNamaari.

[@novaprimesguidetothemultiv7091]

its like if Simba forgave Scar for killing his father

[@user-nl8xo2xq4w]

He sort of did tho, didn't he? He gave him a chance to "run away and never come back" just like scar said to him. Scar didn't take that chance but still, Simba was willing to let him go.

[@novaprimesguidetothemultiv7091]

@@user-nl8xo2xq4w I'll give you that, but my point still stands it wasn't a act of forgiveness it was a act of mercy

[@vngelicath1580]

@@novaprimesguidetothemultiv7091 what's the difference

[@novaprimesguidetothemultiv7091]

@@vngelicath1580 forgiving someone is a person you love and or understand, while mercy is basically pitting someone.

[@FruityHachi]

@@novaprimesguidetothemultiv7091 no, forgiveness doesn’t mean to love or understand, it means to let go of negative emotions you harbour against that person like resentment, hatred, anger

[@krystenreid8106]

I had very similar feelings as you. It bothered me that Namari never once acknowledges what she did and why Raya would behave the way she does.

[@wenjing1124]

When I first get to know about why Raya distrusts others and that she was unwilling to open up herself, I can understand her and relate to her. I have experienced neglect from my father since I was very young, and suffered emotional abuse from my family and bullies in my school. Every time I expressed my suffering, like that time I had a panic attack due to spiders, they attacked and humiliated me. As a result, I was closed off from others, a loner as well. I do eventually start to move on thanks to supportive friends and therapy. I am learning to forgive the people who have wronged me, but I will never forget what they did to me, and it is natural and acceptable for me to have boundaries with them. Right now, I am setting up distance and boundaries with my toxic family for the sake of my well-being and that they never apologise for all the things they have done to me, and even want to justify their actions (and I am not falling for it anymore). Besides my family, my classmates back in primary school tried to make me feel bad for doing a group project alone because "it's a group project and I should work with them or the teacher will fail me". I didn't trust them because they took advantage of my arachnophobia and bullied me. They didn't even apologize for their actions. Luckily, my project was accepted but not theirs because I did it correctly while they did it wrong. I can accept that Raya is learning to trust her friends, but her relationship with Namaari doesn't sit right with me. Namaari has done nothing to redeem herself or even tried to put the effort to gain Raya's trust aside from the ending where Raya has to blindly trust her to reassemble the orb. Although her act does save the world, it is still not enough. It is not that easy to fix everything. Even though she was a child that time, obeying the tribe's commands, she still needs to be held accountable for her actions, and she needs to put the effort in (not just Raya and other people).