RE-MATCH! F-4E Phantom vs Mig-21 Fishbed: BVR Missile Battle & Dogfight | DCS

[@hoosheedeghateekaren6193]

Can you show a Battle about F_22 and Su57??🙏

[@grimreapers]

We've already done it ten times, I can't do it yet again: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5SvoZmdoJyVi6c kzbin.info/www/bejne/fWG2hq2obZWmnbc kzbin.info/www/bejne/ioWqfp-Bl8imatk kzbin.info/www/bejne/h6u1fYGfZa-An7M kzbin.info/www/bejne/e17SdGaEnN12b5Y kzbin.info/www/bejne/h2WwiJVni8-MpqM kzbin.info/www/bejne/mHPEaqyriMaInsU kzbin.info/www/bejne/qJCnZmiEqbJonpo kzbin.info/www/bejne/g2iZgIuefdpoZqc kzbin.info/www/bejne/g3zQp3l8rsuIaMU

[@hoosheedeghateekaren6193]

@@grimreapers thanks bro

[@misterrpicc1887]

Cap, in case it hasn't been said recently, you and your crew are the highlight of our day. Has someone who doesn't have a proper rig to do DCS, I live vicariously through your hilarious exploits. In my fever dreams, I would love to see more century series fighters. My Uncle flew both the Hun and the Thud in SEA, and that would be amazing to see a reenactment. Also, the Crusader, as a throwback to the last gunfighter. Is there any info at all on possible development of these aircraft in DCS? Thanks again for all that you do

[@mikeck4609]

I’m Vietnam, once the F-4 pilots learned to use their thrust advantage, they had no problem beating mig-21s. Had to use the vertical is all. So I disagree with the idea that you can’t beat a mig-21 in a dogfight with an F-4. It’s actually quite easy if you keep your speed above 450 and rate the shit out of him or just use the vertical

[@Gunfreak19]

But DCS MIG21 (together with MiG15) over preforming to the extreme when AI flies them. And even with a player, the MiG21 over preform, especially when slow.

[@timonsolus]

To be fair, the MiG-21bis in DCS is considerably better in engine, avionics and weapons than the early MiG-21F-13 and MiG-21PF variants that the North Vietnamese were using. Only the 1972 MiG-21MF variant at the end of the war posed a serious threat to the F-4E.

[@mikeck4609]

It’s true that the Mig-21Bis we have in DCS is significantly better than the models used by Vietnam. BUT, the version of the F-4E we have in DCS is also significantly better. It has the slatted wings (which were on some in 1972) as well as upgraded radar and avionics. The F-4E did a number on Mig-21s in 1972 once the pilots learned how to use the F-4. No variation of the MiG-21 has the thrust to weight of an F-4 nor can it rate with the F-4 That said, I get that the AI still performs magic in some aircraft (mainly older ones like mig-15 and mig-19) but it HAS gotten better. I don’t have too much trouble beating an AI mig-21 or 19 in the F-4E and I’m not a very skilled dogfighter

[@arguy3297]

​@@timonsolus I believe the MiG21s of the Vietnam era only had missiles much like the early F4s as well.

[@timonsolus]

@@arguy3297 : The early MiG-21F-13 day fighter had internal cannon. The MiG-21PF all weather interceptor did not, but could carry a centerline gun pod if necessary. The later MiG-21MF went back to internal cannon.

[@Zet0rius]

That was properly exciting! Thanks 👌

[@Gunfreak19]

I feel the classic vietnam F4 vs 21, disappear as soon as you start using all aspect heaters.

[@arguy3297]

Yeah and that's why they said that in this case instead of a 1960s load out they used 1980s stuff.

[@M7A1bayonet]

Growling Sidewinder absolutely dominated the mig21 in an F4 when he did his video. I'm sorry to say it cap but you were doing it wrong .....he two Circled the Mig 21 into the grave over and over

[@chrisinstasis7986]

Several factors were different in that video. You have to fight the circumstances you find yourself in, not just the enemy. I'm not sure that the setup and subsequent chaotic nature of this fight would allow much of an opportunity to get GS's game plan going.

[@M7A1bayonet]

@@chrisinstasis7986 factors have absolutely nothing to do with the tactics that you use to get onto someone's six. Utilizing the F4s best turn rate speed (which he highlights in the video) it will two Circle the 21 successfully every single time. I suggest you watch his video. He (and the f4) utterly dominated the mig 21 in two Circle fighting. To the point it was not even a competitive fight.

[@herrzimm]

If memory serves... On paper, the F4 should have a rather large "edge" on BVR due to the fact that the USA (at that time) designed the F4 FOR long-distance (BVR) type engagements, while the Russians designed the M21 more with a "closer range" type of approach to air-combat. Meaning that while it HAD some "long-range" aspects, it was much better (on paper) in traditional "gun-based dogfights". And it was due to the failure OF the missiles at the time PLUS confronting a "close-in fighter", the USA realized that a "BVR ONLY interceptor" was NOT the best answer. That is why we got the F14, F15, F-16 and the F-18 all around the same generation AND with SPECIFIC roles in mind for each plane.

[@arguy3297]

In BVR the MiGs Fox 1 can only hit a closing aspect target at like 5-7nms maybe 3-5 in a chase aspect.

[@janusz4156]

65 years of F-4 in 2023 and 70 years of MiG-21 "Fishbed" in 2026.

[@MattWaller04]

Bravo Cap and crew! Good fun this one

[@j27340]

The F4 is America's proof that a brick can fly.

[@smacman68]

The F4 has an advantage by having a back seater to call out threats and massively increase your situational awareness. Just like Jester calling out an enemy on your six. I don’t think you knew that the Mig was behind you before Jester called it out. Huge advantage

[@KH990j]

I'd think it would have been better to run the phantom without radar although 1 sparrow kill was made. Round 3 was probably the truest show of what happens when each plane tries to straight up punch each other. The mig did not stand a chance against the Sidewinder and the F4 ate the R60.

[@arguy3297]

That was my first thought as well. "How would I try to find an F4 in a MiG21 knowing my radar is basically useless?" RWR returns.

[@duckmartin9853]

You should do a battle with the F/A-18 Super hornet with 4 AIM-174B and 3 AIM-120D3 and 2 AIM-9X !!

[@grimreapers]

Didn't we do that somewhere in here? AIM-174B/SM-6 Series: F-35 Guides AIM-174B: kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqvKh6WZbaqteZY AIM-174B vs AIM-54: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hXa2mWmpfrSXoMk AIM-174B vs PL-17: kzbin.info/www/bejne/aYK4q6R5fapjhcU AIM-174B (SM-6) Air to Air: kzbin.info/www/bejne/hWqrZItpl6qEiLM AIM-174B (SM-6) Anti-AWACS: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rHKyop-drbF_ac0 AIM-174B (SM-6) Air to Ground: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rWeYmpqdhbl6jck AIM-174B (SM-6) Anti Ship: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gmmmmnaciM2gY9E AIM-174B + MAKO + LRASM Anti Ship: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rpS6eISva7KbfMU

[@MWSin1]

That's a level beyond murder spec. That's genocide spec.

[@Anarchy_420]

@@grimreapers F/A-18F's with AIM-174's VS Iranian F-14's with Fakour 90's! 3 to 1 ratio with numbers obviously in F-14's favor!

[@Anarchy_420]

@@grimreapers F-15EX with AIM-260 VS F/A-18F with AIM-174 Lol sorry, lots of ideas😅 ST-21 with AIM-152 VS F/A-18F with AIM-174

[@RogueKnight423]

Best dogfights ever guys...good work

[@Anarchy_420]

Yo Cap! You guys should do another intercept vid! Interceptors- J-15 with PL-17's and J-20 with PL-15's, MIG-31 with R-37M's and SU-57 with R-77M's, Rafale and Typhoon both with Meteor's, F/A-18F with AIM-174's and F-22 with AIM-260's! First- All trying trying to intercept The YF-12A! Second- Include The YF-12A and try intercepting The SR-72! Last- include The SR-72 and for the lols F/A-XX All with AIM-260's and try intercepting The "UFO"!🙏👍

[@TR4Ajim]

This should have been a draw - the MiGs staying low, and the F4s staying high.

[@JamesMillard-x5x]

What I would love CAP if it is possible, in a situation like this or another amazing video/fight would be if we can hear Simba straight after you discussing their plan of attack before watching the fight. It would add excitement to the me and other viewers I’m sure knowing what your facing in response to your plan. Might even be funny to see how well you know each other. Apologies in advance if it is shown later in the video but I’d really like to know what they are up to as well.

[@kenbb99]

Perhaps you could do an escort mission with two fighter F-4's escorting two bomber F-4's versus two Mig-21's. This might counter the Mig-21 strategy of staying low since the Mig's then would not be able to attack the bombers.

[@arguy3297]

That would probably be more true to how the MiGs were used in Vietnam.

[@nath-hh2ff]

Good fights. In real life, of course, I'd be routing for the Mericans, but in a video game, I was going for the Migs.

[@svensvensson2724]

This is why they made the Mig-23. Mig-21 was too evenly matched with F4.

[@lonurad1259]

if you're doing 1980s, wouldn't it be better to do the mig 23?

[@1969Risky]

Can you guys please do the Top Gun canyon run in A4's & F-5's as they have better agility to do the mission.

[@Anarchy_420]

Please make a F-4 VS A-4 Vid🙏

[@TrollpoeSteward]

Garcia Deborah Rodriguez Charles Hernandez Donald

[@mattcurtis4670]

Flood mode works better then jester.

[@dirkaminimo4836]

Ya cheated cap! You didn’t use radiation but rather the map! Also I like the vids like this to be a bit longer. Maybe I’m a little bit long in tooth, but I get more satisfied with the hour longs

[@Doom61681]

If you do a early Cold War campaign in DCS can you add the IS-7?

[@Kevin-hb7yq]

Two of the most sexy fighter jets ever made, crewed by the most valued silly persons around. Cheers!!

[@lreactor]

Is the F4 really that tanky?

[@arguy3297]

It's not that the F4 is tanks but rather the R60 warheads are so small. The warhead is only about 6lbs while the sidewinders are like 20lb warheads.

[@matthewkern3619]

Up-engine and up-radar that beast AND SEE WHAT IT CAN DO! Improve the avionics and missiles! Go smoke some J-15s! AI says: Hypothetical Performance: With these upgrades, the F-4 Phantom II could potentially achieve: Top speed: Mach 2.5-2.7 Climb rate: 50,000-60,000 feet per minute Range: 1,500-2,000 miles Service ceiling: 60,000-70,000 feet Turn rate: 20-25 degrees per second

[@Maxcism]

Here before the bots

[@tuskegee87]

It's not the algorithm we have to beat... now it's the bots.

[@simba1113]

stay for the shenanigans. lol

[@MrWhiteladder61]

Was map is this?

[@FleetDefenderRA5]

I am guessing the new one: it was pretty barren; not Vietnam, and I do not think the Kola Peninsula.

[@darthgamer2014]

So I know Ace Combat and DCS are competitors and that the former is unrealistic compared to the latter. But just out of curiosity could you guys try testing a canyon run? In Ace Combat 7 there's a mission called Cape Rainy. In this mission the player leading a squadron of about 4 F-15Cs and which ever aircraft the player ends up choosing, through a guarded canyon in order to strike an enemy base. The squadron has to bob and weave past enemy search lights and obviously avoid crashing into the canyon it's whilst climbing no higher than 600m to avoid detection. If you do choose to take this scenario, the requirements would be that there'd be at least 1 attempt fielding a grand total of 5 F15Cs. A grand total of let's say 60 or so search lights to be spread out over the canyon and of course an operation ceiling of 600m any aircraft that reach over this during the event are disqualified.

[@grimreapers]

I think this is the closest we have? kzbin.info/www/bejne/g5-0l3SheJuBqLs

[@darthgamer2014]

@@grimreapers thx for the link. I probably should have looked before asking 😅 Regardless, thanks again not just for the link but your videos in general and remember, always have fun.

[@LinaLemos-s7j7j]

I watch your videos with great pleasure. Your videos are a breath of fresh air.🛡▪️🎳

[@EllaPorgil]

I really appreciate your approach to content creation. Your videos are always top notch!🎣🦒🛻