Reacting To Ganondorf Fan Movesets in Smash Ultimate

[@MockRockTalk]

Thanks for watching everyone, and a big thanks to everyone who signed on to have their videos featured! I've got them all linked below: *Delzethin* - kzbin.info/www/bejne/Zqu8Z6CHj7SWjdUsi=ZenlfRBxMr0W0D9q *AndYetNoBananas* - kzbin.info/www/bejne/jH7KiYSEdqigeq8si=q7euxwrAPaL6GY-8 *FibreOpticBroadBean* - kzbin.info/www/bejne/rZjWmaJ3p8iomKMsi=auf1BL1CFmBNf9wQ *Main channel:* kzbin.info *Twitter:* twitter.com/MrMockRock *Patreon:* www.patreon.com/mockrock *Twitch:* www.twitch.tv/mockrocktwitch *Teespring:* teespring.com/stores/mockrock

[@Team-Eclipse6024]

Are you considering doing another character remake in future?

[@jmurray1110]

I could see little max being a good idea since he’s complained that his concept is just untenable with smash as a game

[@pieceofbread5311]

I think something that you may not have thought about in the third move set is throwing the volley and getting a garunteed charge if they hit it back

[@tjackknife6590]

There is nothing funnier to me than the despair in MockRock's voice when Delzethin proposed to keep Ganon's grab unchanged!

[@KingOfSpeed907]

The wimpy grab!

[@AppleReviewer]

13:37 Look ma! I'm on TV!

[@HiImAiden]

EVESDROPPING JUMPSCARE

[@Fobb]

Thanks for reacting to my redesign, it was really cool seeing your perspective on it! Swapping the jab and forward tilt is a change that makes _so_ much sense, but it just never occurred to me when making the video haha. I also like your idea of adding multiple actions to the side-special -- it's a very natural change that'd give the move a lot more versatility!

[@MockRockTalk]

Thanks for being onboard, even without any of my proposed tweaks I think your moveset would be a _ton_ of fun to play!

[@cassiuspeter9673]

I know I'm a bit late to the party, but I had an idea for down B. As mockrock pointed out, calling out three attacks is no small feat, but there's another character that has a 3-state attack in smash ultimate ... Mr Game and Watch. I'd have tri-force of power work similarly to bucket, where the strength of the attack scales how many charges ganondorf gets. Down-B fox's laser? enjoy your dinky little 1 charge. Down B a fully charged charge shot? 3 charges, instant power up state.

[@andyetnobananas]

OMG, thank you so much for your reaction~ It's uncanny watching my own content back at me XD I'm glad you are mostly in favor of my design. I was worried I was being too weird at points, but you were able to intuit and pick up what I was saying ^^ I get the thing about neutral air. I'm unsure if I would keep it exactly as is in a hypothetical re-rework, but I would try again XP I'm also surprised that you aren't in favor of the pretzel-motion warlock punch, but I get it. I added it more as an easter egg, only intended for if you break the shield.

[@MockRockTalk]

Thanks again! For the pretzel motion, let me put it this way: if anyone would have it, why not Terry haha

[@cassiuspeter9673]

I've never actually seen any of your content before, but after this, I'm definently going to watch more of you. I absolutely love your "doodle over the real animations" style; it's so simple, and yet adds SO MUCH to making your ideas feel more fleshed out. Beyond that, I also appreciate your "less is more" mindset, and am blown away with just how much more you managed to accomplish. You got the dead man's volley in, you got a float, and you all but completely decloned ganondorf from falcon, all without fundamentally changing him.

[@kadabraguy9846]

Very minor nitpick, technically Dedede isn't the only projectile which can be reflected with normal attacks. Ice Climber's neutral B and Wii Fit's volleyball can also be knocked back to hit the characters which used them, so I don't think Dead Man's Volley would feel like it's stepping on Dedede's toes that much. But overall very reasonable redesign, lots of good tweaks in your video :)

[@zernek9199]

Delzethin’s True Power Down-B is a bit mixed for me. I like the core idea behind it being a deal with the devil and I like the big ground slam, but it doing nothing before 100% isn’t justified to me. In Hyrule Warriors, he does have a weaker version of that ground slam that’s weaker and smaller, but I’m pretty sure he used that for Down Smash.

[@kestrelynn]

True, with the effects of it, i dont think it even needs to be a special, just a mechanic like One Wing or GO! or Rage Drive and wow theres a lot of these Okay i wrote this before finishing the videonand thats basically what mockrock said

[@arciabrats5897]

Yeah it's kinda weird and I personally think he should've just had it activate automatically. If he really wanted to to lean more into the gimmick he made, I think he should've instead made it be a move similar to Cloud's limit charge but instead of charging a meter it instead damages Ganon while you use it so you can purposely reach 100% sooner

[@futurehistoryarchaeologist4480]

@@arciabrats5897 I thought something along the same lines. If you want to make it so it only works after 100%, then make it a self damaging move prior to 100%. That way you can intentionally use it to enter that state earlier at the cost of prematurely weakening yourself.

[@tychozzyx9439]

That's funny. I went the other direction. I want it always available, but make the cost worse over time. Like it uncontrollably triggers final smash/dark explosion into an SD at the 30 sec mark. He has lost control and been consumed by the power he invoked

[@slimballs9650]

I’m thinking more on the lines of it providing stronger boosts, longer duration, and shorter cooldown the higher the percent he’s at.

[@kestrelynn]

Since its topical, i just wanted to say that, just like the rest of your content, you do reactions right. Permission, credit, not uploading the entire thing, and adding your own content. Of course bringing attention to it shows it isnt the status quo, but i just wanted to give credit to someone doing reactions right

[@Orchestrafanboy19]

I’ve always thought this as well. Mock does a pretty good job giving credit, adding insight, speaking his mind, and just generally adding to the content instead of just “Huh, that’s interesting.”

[@hyperdense8589]

Amazing idea for taunt attack: A flaming punch downward that’s essentially just Volcano Kick but even worse. No windboxes, higher startup and endlag. It’d be hilarious imo

[@RNGuice]

Honesty that move should be moved to a taunt

[@psdjklgfuiob]

hes mocking hes rocking hes talking lets go

[@cbd075]

I think Delzethin’s Down B would work if you could activate it at any percent, and it gets more powerful as he takes more percent So you could decide at 0% “all right, this stock’s gonna go quickly for the both of us” OR do what he originally designed at higher percents

[@tychozzyx9439]

Agreed. Maybe self destruct at some point so triggering at low percents isn't really safer

[@cbd075]

@@tychozzyx9439well the damage over time thing is still in effect, so it’s definitely not *safe*, but it would be usable, especially bc of the float

[@informationnotavailable6433]

That’s an awesome idea

[@idavid8391]

Delzethin representation, let's go! He's another creator I really enjoy alongside MockRock and MockRockTalk.

[@ABAgamer_]

Same here!

[@irkandcrew]

What if True Power had a power curve... The lower percent you choose to use it, the weaker it is... And the higher your percent is... up to say like 100% the more powerful it becomes.

[@slimballs9650]

That’s kinda what I was thinking.

[@chrishoenscheidt6627]

12:17 when are we getting a full series of “how to stab” MockRock videos?

[@waffleman8053]

I never thought MockRock would ever watch a Delzethin video, but here we are.

[@nabbitling2109]

Fruity Gannon in the thumbnail is not something I knew I needed to see

[@watermelongaming3698]

Bro hittin' that Papyrus pose

[@arenbuffaloe6578]

I never noticed that - My eyes kept just seeing regular Dorf until you pointed it out...

[@Somedudewithbadideas]

My ideal ganondorf moveset would be a mixture of all 4 of these hypotheticals. Banana's run cycle and a merge between his and mockrocks float where it functions like yours, but its inputed like banana's, Mockrocks jab, F-tilt, D-tilt, F-smash, D-smash, F-air, B-air, forward and back throws, and mockrocks and fiber-optics grab animation. Delzethins U-tilt, Dash attack, U-Smash, U-air and down and up throws. mockrocks or banana's N-air. And his current D-air for style points. As for the specials, N-B: fiberoptic and banana nailed this, unless in an install state, then it acts like fiber-optics side special, S-B: delzethins armoured flame choke below 100%, over 100 is mockrocks side b, but it'll drag opponents along the ground, similar to Ridley's U-B: your current down b below 100%, over 100 either mockrocks or fiberoptics up special D-B: if used below 100% it'll act as fiberoptics, if over 100 it'll become delzethins

[@Novum228]

Question: if Volcano Kick is your least favorite move, why does it start your intro?

[@richardunderwood9683]

I think more reactions to moveset videos like this would be great for your channel! I know in the past you were skeptical on the workability of an Eggman moveset. Have you seen Delzethin's moveset video on the matter?

[@thevioletbee5879]

I second this. That’s one of my favorites.

[@DeviDoesNothing]

DELZETHIN MENTIONED

[@ashton5061]

Awesome profile picture, Shez is the GOAT

[@DeviDoesNothing]

hell yeah

[@librathebeautifulwarmonk1283]

​@@ashton5061Agreed

[@djdjinn6340]

Delzethin is one of my favorite smash channels, though I do think I prefer the more complete reworking of Ganondorf's moveset that MockRock did. That said, I really like all the Trident ideas in this video and I wish MockRock had used a few more of those. Somewhere among these 4 movesets is the perfect Ganondorf Gestalt!

[@ankleknuckle]

i dont think the balance would work AT ALL and therefore wouldnt work, but i think putting dead mans volley on final smash, with “able to be reflected” being the nerf attached to the smash meter version, would be a really cool way to use the varying power levels possible from final smash

[@Terrabyte13]

Would love a look at Artist of Seer's take on Ganondorf from the rivals of aether workshop!

[@Chillaccino1]

was he the one that made that insane totk link moveset??? that would be so sick

[@Terrabyte13]

​@@Chillaccino1i think so? Though the totk link is built on a lot of animations from Muno's botw link

[@gregoryo4417]

@@Chillaccino1 Actually, RuberCuber made the totk link, while Artist of Seer and VVizard worked together to bring Ganon to life, and trust me, the amount of care they put into him is truly award worthy.

[@tolotos95]

MockRock: 'Next one!" KZbin: "How about an unskippable 30s-Ad?"

[@Saben.C-Spoon]

Oh my goodness this is a genius idea, so many fan ganon sets are completely unhinged Im looking forward to digging into this video

[@wawazawi]

hey there mr MockRock sir! loved the video as always. I was just wondering where does that intro music come from? Sounds pretty cool, so I assume it's from an existing song, but I couldn't find it

[@MockRockTalk]

Appreciate it! That's actually my song "MockRock Is Here," I usually have music listed in the description unless it's a video like this without background music throughout the majority of it.

[@10Bendog]

That thumbnail is fabulous!

[@ashton5061]

A very simple change to True Power should have been Shield Special because Shield Specials aren't common and not meant to be used constantly. I did a similar thing with Shez with Dark Awakening. Plus this gives Down Special free to do something else

[@stormRed]

The presentation of all of these videos was S tier.

[@halt1931]

Actually, I might argue going the opposite direction for Delzethin's down special. Don't make it automatically trigger, don't remove the auto self damage over time, don't make it do something different when below 100%. Just make it be able to be triggered at any health, and last for the rest of the stock. You can choose when you want to trigger it, instead of being limited to only on death's door, but the earlier you trigger it, the more free damage your opponent will get due to the self DOT.

[@K2niarDneK]

I think swapping Delzethin's F-Smash with something more like Sephiroth's D-Smash would help differentiate it a bit more from the F-Tilt. Angled at about 5 or 10 degrees from the horizontal, kicking up dust if you're far in enough on the platform to hit the floor. The motion could even be more of a two-handed overhead stab instead of a thrust so it's not _blatantly_ ripping off Sephiroth.

[@stardogsmasher6217]

It would be interesting to see you do reaction videos on some character moveset redesigns like with Delzethin as you did in this video. I'd be interested in hearing what would you do to some characters who really need the update and compare the similarities and differences.

[@cceider]

i think Delzethin's true power down special works well but i'd say instead of only being able to use it at 100%, you can use it at anytime and ganondorf takes even more damage over time a recoil damage. kinda like a high risk high reward. it might a little broken in casual play if he gets access to all these buffs at low percent but in terms of balancing i think it would be about finding the right amount of percent he should take from damage over time and recoil

[@420jw]

Funny thing is, I was gonna watch Delzethin's before I found out abt your Channel (since I'm used to his Content) Then I watched yours with the Engaging format that Successfully retains my Peanut-Sized attention Span and I Tried to watch his, but I think I"m too used to the Format for it to Retain my Interest (with little Interest in the Character himself, Ganon I mean Another thing is I'm really into Technology, Especially Video Games and hearing/seeing all the References in yours kept me Invested)

[@ChaseTheRedFox]

What if on Delzethin's Ganondorf moveset, True Power was an Shield + B mechanic similar to Inkling's ink refill and Steve's crafting box? Shield + B feels like a mechanic that could be explored more honestly. That would free up the Down + B slot for something better.

[@Ultrapredator1H]

14:02 I sometimes question myself why they didn't give Ganon a grab similar to Pac-man's one but instead of the weird sprite, he uses dark magic like, for example if he do his grab animation his hand has purple flames, I mean COME ON SAKURAI, Ganondorf is a fricking sorcerer

[@Telestrations]

True power should make it so that Ganon heals 50% every kill he gets in that state

[@poweredvoltage3213]

50% is too much for how easily Ganondorf can ko opponents, maybe 15% is reasonable

[@PortablePuertoRican]

For the first moveset of below 100% he could make downB become a single boost to his next attack or special that deals self damage Then after, 100% it stays to the end

[@nicofire31]

If Ganondorf was an ultimate dlc character he probably wouldve been given a more "true moveset"

[@Sticker_By_NCT_127]

Forget that, imagine if he was added in Brawl instead of being the last character coded into Melee

[@jmurray1110]

You say that but sonic exists

[@AParticularlyPointySoldier]

@@jmurray1110 at least he got a unique move set even if it’s boring and repetitive. Ganon just copy and pasted 90% of falcons moves in melee, brawl and smash 4. Only ultimate gave him a sword at least.

[@hi-i-am-atan]

the tap b for a simple projectile -> hold b for the followup attack is exactly what i thought as soon as i saw fibreoptic's side b concept. given that its distance is already dynamic, it just seems like a great way to have a move that's straightforward to use as a baseline for beginner players, yet gives it depth for more experienced ones that strongly reflects ganondorf's intelligence and penchant for underhanded schemes as far as golden cows go, i've always considered warlock punch to be one even if not to the degree of flame choke or his stomp, but i've also never thought it should suck up an entire move slot. instead, i've always liked the idea of giving him a chargeable, but not storable projectile on neutral b where he builds up a mass of dark energy above his palm, and fully charging it has him clasping his fist shut, rearing back, then deliver the energy with the iconic explosive backfist ( albeit, with an actual explosion hitbox so that it can have some actual range ). it's p. similar to what the smash team ended up doing with sephiroth's flares, though i figure ganon could use the ability to cancel into a pseudo-roll like a lot of other charge specials. maybe even give the charge and cancel some strong airstalling, so it could function as the trifecta of ganon neutral b concepts as warlock punch, dead man's volley, _and_ float, all in one fibreoptic's riff on rebel's guard did give me the idea for an alternative, though. since warlock punch already has superarmor anyway, reworking it into chargeable special that is predominately _defensive_ could also go a long way. the way he holds his fist after pulling it back already looks like a great pose for some sort of cape guard that could be released into the cape flick always referenced as a reflector, and that's exactly how it could be used here, alongside a simple "get of me" swat ala rebel's guard. keep it held, though, and ganon starts charging up magic into his fist, eventually lowering the guard automatically to slam any soul unfortunate enough to naively attempt to challenge the superarmor. which i suppose makes it closer in concept to focus attack, though the fact that it loses it nothing short of grabs makes it feel p. different to me. maybe directly hitting ganon in the state could even put his attacker in a special, exaggerated hitstop state where they're paralyzed into a freeze frame by dark lightning and maybe take some minor zero-knockback damage, just to make it so that the full charge could conceivably land as a pseudo-counter against other, more traditionally usable big moves there's honestly a lot a more conservative ganondorf rework could do with warlock punch to give it a proper role in the moveset. granted, basically all of them involve making it into a charge special or otherwise giving it some sort of cancel window, but that's just par for the course for any move with a windup of over a second. an absurdly slow move you have to commit entirely to is never going to be more than a hail mary. a finishing blow you can access from holding a utility or zoning tool for a full a second, though? _that's_ a callout move everyone can appreciate

[@ShowWithNoName]

How I would rework (buff) Ganondorf -Up tilt now has a hitbox when he raises his foot, frame 10 like his other tilts, and does the same damage and knockback as Ike's up tilt. This means it functions as an anti-air and an up-tilt. The second hit with the explosion only comes out when pressing the button again, like Bayonetta's f-tilt. Up tilt 1 is frame 10 with 37 total frames when not followed up. Up tilt 2 can come out after 15 frames and has an 8 frame startup, -14 on shield. -Warlock punch is replaced with a sweeping back-hand that comes out fast (frame 12) but has a fair amount of lag (-30 on shield). Acts as a reflector. Is a KO tool at higher percents -Up air has the same animation as Dark Dive -Up special is now a float with no hitbox, similar to R.O.B.'s up B, but with less travel distance. He turns into a shadowy form and is invincible during the movement. Has a lot of landing lag. -Improved air acceleration (Captain Falcon), run speed of 1.5 (about Ike's), air speed of 0.9 (about Kazuya) -Nair now comes out on frames 6 and 9.

[@alexandrebertone4351]

Your reactions are so cool !

[@PrinceSamTV]

That ultimate Nair is a Godsend 😭 he NEEDS that badly

[@MayBeSomething]

Every reflect has a point where a projectile is too strong and breaks the reflect, and each reflect has a damage multiplier, so - although it was not mentioned - you don't need to add in any rules for avoiding eternal tennis matches. As someone who played Palu, and actively mains Zelda, I know a thing or two about reflects.

[@anonymous7024]

32:44 I called this the Sunday Jog

[@poweredvoltage3213]

44:16 He is just saying this because it’s for Warlock Punch, if it was flame choke or a cannon move, He would love the idea

[@the_gork]

Honestly I don’t see why we can’t have ganon use a ton of different styles of move. Him being a versatile master of magic and weapons is not only terrifying and faithful, but would be a great foil to link and Zelda who in smash use weapons and magic respectively. I feel like just using the spear and evil magic weirdly makes him feel too much like sephiroth who’s sword is so massive and uses plenty of thrusts. Also I think a fine way to keep warlock punch would be to make it the smash 4 custom move that gave him his sword

[@mrmediocre848]

It is weird Ganondorf doesn't have a kill throw, even if Ultimate made Dark Dive his kill throw essentially. And while using it at ledge to kill shielding opponents is pretty great, Dark Dive has too many drawbacks to really appreciate the kill power. If only there were fan movesets to give us ideas on improving Ganondorf that ultimately lend more respect to the guy then two decades of Smash Bros have...

[@kestrelynn]

I just noticed for some reason the video tag by the title is cut off by the start for me so it just says "mashultimate"

[@Cat.In.A.Wig.]

It’s so funny how the last one said he was making a trident moveset as something more unconventional and original, then MockRock just immediately goes “oh, another one, cool” like it’s the most common thing in the world

[@hiygamer]

I kinda love the idea of giving Ganondorf a new up special that has him cross his arms and float back to the stage, possibly without putting him into special fall like Rob

[@primrosevale1995]

I already came up with my own ideas for Ganondorf on MockRock's original reworking video so I'm not gonna comment on move suggestions, but I'd just like to offer a few of my thoughts: -First off, _Smash_ would not create an original design for Ganondorf, he's an established character with a lot of actual appearances to choose an appearance from. Wolf, G&W, and the Miis are the only characters they've created original designs for. Wolf's appearance is based _Star Fox Zero,_ a game he doesn't appear in below the shoulder, G&W is an amalgamation of different characters from those games, and the Miis are literally avatars you can make anything out of. That being said I don't think MR's approach would work either, as _Wind Waker_ and _Tears of the Kingdom_ Ganondorf are too different from the _Twilight Princess_ and _Ocarina of Time_ incarnations, in terms of proportions for _WW_ Ganon and weapons for _TotK_ Ganon. Considering we have no representation of _TP_ or _OoT_ in _Smash_ without Ganondorf, (Sheik is a generic ninja he doesn't count) I'd say just use one of those designs, or both since they're so similar, would be the definitive Ganondorf design. -Yeah Delzethin's up aerial is legitimately an amazing idea. I actually now prefer it to my own idea for that move, which was basically just a spinning uppercut with a flashy effect . -The only problem with how MR implemented the Dead Man's Volley in my opinion was not making it a special move. It's too iconic not to be his neutral special. Also opens up more opportunities for more interesting up aerials/smashes and doesn't make them the same attack in two moves, something which MR ironically talks about avoiding. -I love AndYetNoBananas's take on down special, because I actually suggested something similar on MR's original video for how to use Bestial Rampage, only with Malice basically forming a Ganondorf-sized Ganon, giving them a body texture and flaming hair akin to _BotW's_ Dark Beast Ganon. However, the idea of that Malice forming just the head as he travels works so much better and serves as a great preview for his Final Smash when he releases his full power as Ganon. Plus to be honest Falcon Kick works so much better on Ganon anyway. Give Falcon himself a moveset with actual qualities from his games. -As for the up special AndYetNoBananas suggests, I say you could combine that with the float he later suggests. Allows you to give Ganondorf a more unique yet probably not as recovery focused up special and be less redundant in execution. Just make it so Ganon can only do this out of a double jump, meaning he might end up weakening his vertical recovery by using it, make it last for less time, and change it so attacks done out of both his and Peach's floats are affected by the short hop aerial multiplier (Peach's exclusion from it causing the problems), regardless of where it's used, in order to prevent the float being overpowered. Now he has a pretty useful float but still has only an average to decent recovery. -Overall I really don't understand why people would make a solely trident-based moveset for Ganondorf. Ganondorf himself never uses one outside of _Hyrule Warriors_ and Ganon himself only uses it four times, half of those being only in a special ending or when combined with another villain. If he should a weapon it should be a sword, just focus on his power and tendency to use magic and his fists to help him be different from other swordfighters.

[@CatsLilaSalem]

I think it is fun with these to first watch your take, and then your reaction to other takes on the same concept With Ganondorf i did not really get what triggered volcano kick, so it would always trigger at bad times and sometimes get me killed 😅. But i was not the only one

[@JamUsagi]

My idea for a Ganondorf Up-B is just Dark Dive… except that if he catches someone midway, he drags them upwards with him, and you can choose to throw them forwards or backwards at the peak. Instead of cutting his recovery short, catching someone actually gives him a bit of a boost with the recoil knockback!

[@raviolithedesigner3736]

For Delzethin's forward smash, I think a cool way to make it distinct from ftilt is to have it be a 1-2 like Link's. The idea is that you have Sephiroth ftilt, that swing, as the first it, and then quickly after it combos into a big, beefy stab like Byleth's with that dark magic. The first hit would have some fast, ranged, utility but the 2nd hit would have a shit ton of end lag, so you don't want to throw that out too often.

[@Novum228]

37:40 I feel bad for Ike

[@illford]

You know I think its cool how in PM warlock punch wws moved to his sword taunt ao that when its held it turns into a big arcing slash

[@Gigi4u]

If there was a super smash bros ultimate 2 I would completely change ganondorf. He would now be his brand new TOTK design. He would still be a heavy but his walk and running speed will be increased. The biggest change would be that he now predominantly uses his gloom sword in his attacks. Because of having a sword he will have better range. His up, forward and down smash would use his gloom club. His down smash would make a small shock wave were ganondorf stands. Some of his tilts and airals use his gloom spear. His side B is his spear charge(basically ganondorfs own flair blitz) His up B gloom charge its a combination of foxes up B with ganondorf command grab up B. Much more dangerous and far reaching. Neutral B would be him using his gloom bow, if fully charged it will fire 3 gloom arows. His down B will be his special mechic, it is a gloom meter that you need to charge up to power up ganondorf if you do down B on an opponent you will drain then of thiere health to chargethe meter even faster. To balance the fact that ganondorf has a sword now he will start of reality vulnerable as mummified ganondorf he is not that heavy and his knockback is much lower. When you charge the meter you will reach phase 2 where he will be in his normal human form, he is heavyer and his knockback is better. If you continue to charge the meter beyond that you will trach ganondorfs final form his demon king form. Again his knock back and weight are better but now his moves vastly increase in power and some have armor. A new mechanic that i would give to link and ganondorf is flurry rush. It function very similarly to Mithras foresight, if a opponent hits you while dodging the opponent will be momentarily stagerd giving you a short time window to follow up with a attack. His final smash would inspired by memory 11 . I would be him summoning his army and riding in on his horse ending with him launching a gloom projectile at you on horse back.

[@kenspeedway1572]

I think I have a really cool approach for Ganondorf that surprisingly no one has taken yet. What if we make him a puppet character? Not a pseudo puppet such as Rosa or Icies, an actual one. You can give Ganondorf the ability to summon a phantom in every part of the stage; a phantom that has the exact same moveset as him, but has it's own health bar. If his phantom gets destroyed, he has to wait 20 seconds until he can summon it again. The player would be able to switch immediately between Ganondorf and his phantom by pressing shield + special. Using the phantom will leave the actual Ganondorf unable to move, making him an easy target for punishes if you're not careful. Also, the damage on the phantom would be reflected on the actual Ganondorf, but destroying it wouldn't take a stock. What do you think of this?

[@Jesus-q1u]

That makes him into an insane zoning character

[@kenspeedway1572]

@@Jesus-q1u yeah, it needs balance for sure, but i think it could be pretty fun if done properly. I was thinking of giving him some kind of meter with gloom. You can't summon a phantom just right after starting the match, but if you keep winning neutral, you'll eventually get into that point. Imagine it like Cloud's limit, but it only charges if you get the hits.

[@MrGameguyC]

8:02 Yeah I'm not a fan move overlaps either, there was this one Ganon moveset that had 4 of them.

[@8bitwiseman]

NO WAY NOBANANAS IS HERE!!! I KNOW THAT GUY FROM PEASANT’S PERSPECTIVE!!! CONGRATS!!! Also Definitely check out Peasant’s Perspective… We have plenty of concepts remaking Ganondorf 😈

[@John-fh8vy]

You should react to BrawlFan1’s fan made movesets for other characters that just aren’t in Smash, maybe give your opinions on how they would fare in the competitive scene

[@SydneyIsSleepy]

i think i thought up a version of dead man’s volley that could sidestep all potential issues the move has. so as usual, it’s a projectile that ganon can fire out that can be reflected by any attack in the game - but the speed & power of the projectile is directly dependant on the move that hit it; the stronger the move, the faster and stronger the volley is. this does not stack - if it’s being fired quickly and get hit by a weak jab, it’ll slow down and lose its power. this already puts ganon in an advantageous spot, as all of his moves are strong, so he’ll generally get more reward from this attack than his opponent; and it’ll break after the 5th reflect too, meaning the projectile spends more time going after ganon’s opponents rather than him. the initial projectile is quite slow and weak; ganon’s opponent could just shield it, but what if ganon wants to rush in behind it? They could send it back, but then ganon might send it back again using a forward smash, so then they’ll have a killing projectile travelling as fast as fox’s running speed after them! What if they send it back with a strong forward smash? They could charge it a little, but what if that gives ganon more set-up time? what if he’s able to close the gap because i gave up my time to charge a slower smash attack? It could create unique dynamics between both players as they try to get into the mind of the other’s while still being in ganon’s favour overall. the volley does speed up in the original games too, so it’s still decently faithful.

[@iantaakalla8180]

So this becomes PAC-MAN’s fire hydrant? I love that fire hydrant because you can knock it at so many angles, so this is great.

[@lukasoliverleo3730]

The FibreOptic DownB seems to me like a G&W Bucket, but for physical attacks (+Limit Break)

[@sukmykrok3388]

Something I feel Ganondorf should REALLY have for a down throw: Oldmanondorf thrusts his Great Sword into his opponent's torso and DORYA's them into the ground behind Ganon. This puts the opponent in a bounce state which Ganondorf can follow up with an attack. That's just something I see him doing, lol!

[@omnomnomify]

I see a pretty massive issue with Delzethin's Down Special concept that wasn't touched on. If I'm a fast character (like Sonic) and I see Ganondorf pop his special, I see no reason not to camp him out until he's at a high enough percent to die to safer options. This could be avoided if Ganondorf had stronger burst movements options, better movement overall, or if the DOT was simply replaced with another flat weight reduction that happened a certain amount of time into the state.

[@aaronm.885]

My idea for Ganon’s downtilt with the Spear: Have him use the blunt end to sweep opponents and it has a chance to trip.

[@jacobs5546]

I also use the term Ascend in my Ganondorf Up-B. It's called Gloom's Ascent.

[@Shady_Fungus]

What if for Ganondorf’s projectile by AndYetNoBananas it can be reflected but increase in speed when doing so. Maybe with a slight damage increase when doing so.

[@antheri7843]

The TOTK render is amazing, and I wish Ganondorf had that as a skin, in addition of a comeback factor it would be interesting, ( you now, just like in his final Fight, he becoming stronger) Imagine a final smash, he becoming that dragon and just fire breath your opponent, give him a projectile has a neutral b, there is so much ganondorf have , he need a better representation!

[@RyanPassek]

My biggest issue of your proposal is that his playstyle would be far too disruptive and specific for healthy gameplay. Having a move that is the orb is obviously needed, but having it of 4 separate moves is wild. Maybe allowing him to interact with the orb in different ways depending on the move would be good, but not just converting any projectile into a tennis ball.

[@psychopath682]

A thing that bothers me giving Ganondorf a counter that isn't just an immediate melee attack. If you also give him "dead mans volley" wouldn't the counter completely defeat the purpose of that move? Shoot projectile, gets hit back, use counter, get the bonus. Not only would it make no sense for you to shoot the ball back, your opponent also would never hit the target back either, because it would only result in a buff for their opponent. It would just be easier to dodge it. Resulting in not playing "dead mans volley" at all or at least not for long. Idk seems like an oversight to me.

[@iantaakalla8180]

I guess the idea is to force the player to react by hitting the projectile and maybe prepare with something else? Unfortunately, you can’t even say that is fine counterplay because that is a lot of forethought and is also note how Dead Man’s Volley is dealt with in Zelda games.

[@6n-thorus945]

have you seen PMEX REMIX versions? (ganondorf, sword ganondorf, Phantom ganondorf)?

[@Lmon_licker]

We all wished this was real.

[@envan7865]

Delzethin's Ganondorf kinda sounds like a mix between Charge Specials from Guilty Gear (or Order-Sol) and Nagoriyuki. I feel...mixed on that

[@SonicTheCutehog]

I would really just keep the magic for his moveset. If they are going to keep the Ocarina of Time design, it would make sense for Ganondorf to take more from that game. Plus, a sword moveset would be pretty boring with how many swordfighters are already in Smash.

[@jonathanlgill]

Yeah I agree. If Ganon was still a 'clone' character, Zelda should be the base of inspiration. Dark Wizard is still a fresh archetype for Smash.

[@algotkristoffersson15]

There is a similar vieo by the duke of dorks a well

[@MildlyAggressiveOni]

Random thought, but if they’re going to continue to refuse to give Ganondorf a unique moveset, I would love for them to introduce a pig Ganon based off of various appearances like that in the first game and LTTP. I mean, we already have 2 Links and 2 (technically) Zeldas, so I don’t see why they shouldn’t do that.

[@Renlira19]

You should check the Ganondorf moveset in the Rivals of Aether Workshop mod.

[@Godlysound]

God I wish I could play a high tier ganon

[@bingoviini]

He needs a rework, but his current moveset is simply fun to play, despite being bad, so throwing it out of the window would be stupid. And fixing this would be easy. So easy that most people have suggested it many times already. Give Ganondorf a complitely new moveset that actually works fits him. And give his current moveset to Black shadow from Fzero, beacuse he's basically just a buff edgy Captain Falcon, so him being a clone is justified.

[@Meta-Wah]

It would be cool if you reacted to VVizard's Ganondorf in the rivals of aether workshop.

[@Ghostabo]

You should probably check the Rivals of Aether Ganondorf mod

[@khicenapalit2041]

Will the animation tier list continue there are more nair, uair and dair, up and down smash jab all tilts pummel f,u and d throw down smash and taunts not a atack but all charaters have taunts

[@christiankramer3608]

Replacing the stomp is not an option. I'll just state that

[@thegoose8663]

True Power (down B on the first concept) doesn't sound good at all. It kinda reminds me of Nagoriyuki's blood rage state, where for a time he looses all specials, gets basically full screen normals at highest speed and his UP quickly drains, excep for Nago it's a punishment mechanic for overusing his strongest tools and failing to manage resources on top of that he returns to his normal state after...

[@illford]

I always find it weird tgat everyone uses old clips of PM Mods. Very old clips, like at least 4 years. A lot of PM mods are just a lot better now so it confuses me deeply

[@AlphaZeroX96]

I hate that they're made with the mindset of Street Fighter and Melee. Like, what the hell is a "footsie?"

[@Garomasta]

Speaking of "sacred cow moves", at this point I wouldn't want to get rid of Ganondorf's f-tilt, f-air, d-air, Flame Choke, Volcano Kick or Warlock Punch. I recognize the latter two are largely considered competitively useless, but they could be given more utility with additional properties and tweaked inputs. Maybe tapping B could do a weak backfist / cape flip that also reflects projectiles, but holding B would do the classic killing blow. Volcano Kick you could turn into one of those multi-input tilts: The first input would pull the leg up and the second one would bring it down. The speed would vary depending on the timing, and not doing a second input at all would give you the fully powered kick. This way it could be a useful quick tilt but still retain that feel of having an extra smash attack that does cool stuff like pull in opponents and shatter full shields.

[@RNGuice]

Honestly, I’d argue that Ganondorf’s current up tilt should be changed to a taunt

[@BoBnfishy]

I think they should just embrace the fact that he was a clone of Captain falcon and instead of making him his own character, just give him a clone of every single falcon move. Have him yell out the names as well. I want to see ganondorf falcon punch, not warlock punch

[@kicksyo2171]

This is all pretty cool, but I must still ask, what about the Kirby hats? Jk, seriously though, I really like Andyetnobananas’ approach. Some new animations really makes a character feel fresh, but I still would like Ganondorf to use a Trident. It’s a unique weapon that deserves representation.

[@Tails_The_Fox92]

The only zelda game I've ever beaten all the way through was twilight princess (the best one) so I'm glad at least one of Ganondorfs smash moves references it.

[@skeletonlover3214]

cool

[@Anthonystuff1]

It always bothers me when people think every move HAS to be a reference to a game

[@KaitouKaiju]

Why shouldn't they be whenever possible?

[@tobin2.0]

Yeah, moves like Falcon Knee and Stomp wouldn't exist

[@Edilhothefirst]

Esquerda, não se debande, fica que vai ter Boulos (abraços a profecia da Dilma xD)

[@jaye4521]

Honestly, I'm pretty much fine with Ganondorf's Smash moveset. Just change his Down Special to look like the spear rush from his TotK fight and he'd be set. Instead of revamping Ganondorf, I've always advocated for simply adding classic pig Ganon with a trident/magic-based moveset.

[@masterofdoots5965]

100th like!