Rebuild the Pac 12 with Relegation

[@drewlockburner]

Deion Sanders getting relegated would be funny

[@RobElderton]

Best comment so far

[@domtom9594]

Imma assume you hate Deion because he’s black isn’t he…

[@domtom9594]

@@RobElderton it’s legit assumption

[@AbrahamJankans]

He'll be playing for an FBS National Championship in a few years🏆Prime Time 😎

[@danielmarley9922]

At this point, ORST & Wazzou need to join the Mounrain West. Then, the MWC needs to poach top FCS schools to round the conference to 18 teams. Imagine Montana, Montana State, North Dakota State, and South Dakota State at the FBS level.

[@RobElderton]

Honestly that’s the most realistic route, it’s also the most boring route

[@joshuapierce9012]

Unfortunately won’t happen because of location and the money. They changed the price of changing divisions from 5 million to a half of billion. It’s sad tho

[@observer466]

Relegation in college sports is literally insane. No college program could survive relegation, which would mean a cut in income to the team. How could you hire coach? How can the school make a budget. How does a team recruit? You tell a recruit that you are a P4 school, but might not be in two years. In you example, how could Colorado recruit? How are college sports in any way comparable to European professional sports? If a team is relegated, they can literally but a couple of players and move up.

[@RobElderton]

Super fair point. It all comes down to money. Can this pac12 get a huge tv deal with this model? Not right away, maybe ever. But would this add a level of drama that will draw attention and viewers, I think so. Another thing is there are no huge schools in this hypothetical, Washington State, Oregon State, and Boise State being the biggest. If New Mexico goes from MWC to Big Sky, is that going to devastate that program if the money is right?

[@Winnica2017]

Welcome to the world of European soccer, that has seen many former power houses go down on their knees.

[@JohnTaylor_406]

Love this idea. Even if it's not likely it adds some real stakes outside of a random end of year Bowl Game or the fact that teams are more likely to not be in the CFP.

[@hughjassol2072]

There are a ton of state school that would love to jump into the PAC 12.

[@walkingtheline3379]

I myself would just want to see the pac add teams into the conference. Such as Boise, SDSU, Montana, Montana St, and more

[@RobElderton]

Me too but that’s basically the Mountain West, with extra steps

[@chrisguardiano6143]

This could also be done in the same way the Premier League/EFL Championship (English soccer's 2nd division) currently does promotion & relegation in which the 3 bottom teams in the Pac 12 would be relegated while the top 2 teams in the MW get promoted. Teams that finished 3-6 in the MW in the regular season would then enter a playoff to determine the 3rd promoted team from the MW. This method also could be applied between the MW & Big Sky.

[@PCSPounder]

Really, we should be implementing this across the whole spectrum, not just the west. But I’ll play along for a bit. There cannot be three levels with this region. You’ll kill programs doing that, because you must have several financial and budgetary backstops to make it work. Most important is travel in the lower division- it’s a big problem out west. Contrast to England, which has 17 levels, 10 of them theoretically professional, and all of them residing in an area the size of Oregon. (The 10th level sort of resembles a high school conference in terms of locality) Two levels is the most the system will tolerate. The higher level pays more, as it should. In England, the Premier League has a portion of income shared equally, an equal portion distributed by how many times clubs are featured in major broadcasts, and a larger portion distributed according to the final standings for the season; you have to win to make more. Now, I would want to see New Mexico State and UTEP diverted from CUSA to be in this, and I would want Southern Utah and Utah Tech moved from the WAC. I would ideally want four divisions at the second level. They will be paid less, therefore their travel costs need to be reduced. So I am tempted to not only bring in Big Sky schools, but any of the D-II schools that could handle it… Colorado Mines, Mesa State, and Central Washington would be targets. This means a playoff to move up would be required. Not that I’m holding my breath. But a counterpoint to the video creator. The first discussions about pro/rel (if Matt Brown is correct) took place between the WCC and the Big West, and they centered on basketball. With OSU & WSU agreeing to an arrangement with the WCC for most sports for a couple years, the possibility that schools ARE discussing this is not zero. While it doesn’t work for some sports, it can work for more sports than you’re discussing here… and I hope you understand that the media money distribution model I mentioned is a large part of such a discussion.

[@solo.xplorer]

I'm expat living in Germany, and relegations makes soccer (usually a boring sport for me) even a bit exciting to see lesser known school get a shot or make a run.

[@BensonJohnson11]

The pac should merge with the mountain west

[@adamcompean9385]

You could see Cal and Stanford crawling and begging the Pac2 back home? Regarding if the ACC crumbles?

[@RobElderton]

Honestly no because college football is all about money and I don’t see the PAC making anything substantial anytime soon

[@ternedo6074]

Stanford and cal are going to be the reason the ACC crumbles. Nobody that means anything in the ACC wanted them, they add nothing.

[@RobElderton]

The jumped from one sinking ship to another

[@adamcompean9385]

@RobElderton Well, since you think you know a sinking ship! Where are they going then? To avoid a sinking ship when no one else wants them!

[@RobElderton]

The ACC probably won’t go the way of the Pac12 but they will be seen as the little brother of the SEC, BIG 10, and BIG XII until their is a massive realignment, if that ever happens.

[@brycegarrod9653]

As an SDSU (primarily basketball) fan, the only way I would ever want to see something like this happen is if every sport had its own promotion and relegation system. Despite being amazing and coming off of a national championship game run, SDSU would be at risk of being demoted to the Big Sky in basketball if all sports are linked to football. Overall, the nitty gritty of having different teams from the same school being distributed between multiple conferences and having no primary conference would be terrible. Also, this plan can pretty much only harm teams that have more power in the college sports world, and help those with less, so as you might guess, for that reason alone a relegation system will never happen.

[@RobElderton]

Nah, it definitely would only be football moving around at first. Each sport would control their own destiny in the future but a one game playoff wouldn’t work for most sports outside football

[@SurfCityBill]

Great idea. Start with a combined MW and Pac-2 and then start dividing after year one. This will also give the Pac-2 time to add a few outside teams. All non-conf games could be inter-league to make scheduling easier and to give teams chances to see how they stack up in the other leagues.

[@RobElderton]

Non conference games need to be left up to the school, if they think they can compete for the Playoffs they need to add some BIG 10 and SEC teams to bolster their resumes

[@robserrano8971]

ACC SHOULD ADD APPALACHIAN STATE, DELAWARE AND JAMES MADISON IF FLORIDA. STATE, MIAMI AND CLEMSON LEAVE.

[@JasonE1972]

Interesting as a thought but since so many elite players opt out of bowl games, I don’t see any schools betting on backups to decide their conference fate.

[@RobElderton]

Definitely fair, but I don’t see a lot of elite players playing in this conference for many years and if you don’t want to get relegated, don’t be last

[@mojoro]

This idea reminds me of Blitz: The League an American football video game developed and published by Midway Games. In the single-player campaign mode, the player is challenged to win championships in all three divisions of the fictitious American football championship known simply as "The League." But your/NTE's idea is pretty good too.

[@Travis_prod]

I thought this was a ncaa 14 video 😭

[@RobElderton]

Almost, check out Not The Expert for that video

[@Travis_prod]

@@RobElderton yeah, I watched that video a good while ago so I thought you implemented some mod to add the sky conference

[@RobElderton]

@@Travis_prod haha maybe in next years game

[@kobethegoat7801]

Congrats on 1k 🎉

[@RobElderton]

DM me on Instagram!

[@RobElderton]

or twitter

[@24vand]

FCS has a cap on football scholarships that is lower than FBS. I think it would be hard to relegate between the fcs and fbs levels. I think a two tiered relegation would be cool. I’m in get er done.

[@RobElderton]

Lots of amendments and concessions need to be made

[@luiolitz]

Been loving this idea for a little while now. And I think it's only in a situation like the craziness of the Pac right now that anything like this could happen. Right now, OSU & Wazzu are desperate for options. And the MW is gonna be scared that the Pac-2 are just going to poach their best teams if they get the chance, so that could be an incentive for the MW to buy in. Also would love to hear your thoughts on how the potential ACC disintegration plays into this. Maybe there are some of those schools that can't get into a remaining Power-3 conference who are willing to try something new, rather than simply drop to a G5 level.

[@RobElderton]

PAC is definitely going to try and poach the MW so they better be ready for that. To the ACC disintegration they could be the next Pac12 as ESPN and Fox buy up all the schools, so they could form the east coast relegation conferences

[@kujorunit]

Teams at the top conference would never agree to go down: that’s the big barrier here. You’d need someone at the NCAA to assert more control than the association has ever had and force conferences into these structures. In doing so, you’d probably have teams and conferences leave and start their own superleague anyway.

[@RobElderton]

Huge barrier there but outside of Washington State, Oregon State, and Boise State every team is kind of at the same similar level. There is no USC or Oregon with egos. If everyone is at a similar level it’s easy for them to all agree to the rules and move forward from there.

[@prestonhunter45]

Dang how do you only have like 40 views. Better than most KZbinrs 😂

[@RobElderton]

Gotta start somewhere

[@observer466]

@@RobElderton sorry, but with videos like this you will continue to have no subscriber base.

[@RobElderton]

@@observer466 the analytics say otherwise but live your life

[@bradparnell614]

It would be a headache for scheduling as so many games now are scheduled a few to several years out.

[@RobElderton]

It definitely could be, but I don’t think it would be as bad as you think because the scheduling agreements between schools are usually non conference games which shouldn’t be affected, it would mainly mess up conferences games if you move up or down.

[@josephross7936]

Well Oregon St & Washington St did an agreement for future football scheduling, but move all other sports to WCC for now.

[@RobElderton]

Go to know, thanks

[@cryptic3689]

Ok, that's an idea but how would the relegated team recover if their players enter the transfer window as soon as they get sent down? I guarantee you most higher end talented kids would not want to play in Big Sky. Not knowing what conference you're in each year would not be a good recruiting tool.

[@RobElderton]

Yeah that’s definitely another issue, you would really have to maximize the NIL so you can compensate players and tempt them to stay. But to start all these teams will be fairly even, kinda.

[@cryptic3689]

@RobElderton Devils advocate, using NIL won't be enough because at least in the MW and PAC2 (whatever number) you can show your talents to NFL scouts and higer competition makes a big difference in where and if you get drafted. There are exceptions but not enough, in my opinion.

[@RobElderton]

@@cryptic3689 I completely agree with that, the players are going to do what’s best for them. I think coaching staffs will be what schools covet, a good staff could grow with the program instead of hitting the ceiling and getting a better job at a bigger school

[@lecleland1]

Great idea!!!!

[@stischer47]

Good idea, but unfortunately you haven't said who would be in the new Pac# conference? There are only two teams left.

[@RobElderton]

Yeah I mention they could try and persuade the Texas teams from the AAC and Sun Belt (UTSA, Rice, SMU, Weber State, North Texas, etc) but again it’s a huge if to have them risk the money and stability of their current situations

[@mrwonderfulone]

@@RobElderton SMU is in the ACC. Swap out Rice, Weber State, for Memphis and Tulane. Add San Diego State and Colorado State and I fail to see why that league could not get a better per school contract then the existing AAC.

[@dayolddoughnuts4031]

Who gives a fuck bowl is right. This guy mentioned Larry Scott as the commish who could not get a TV deal.

[@RobElderton]

He was beyond useless

[@touchstoneaf]

It would be really interesting if we put relegation in place in football, because it's obviously never going to work in MLS as it's currently constructed, so it would be maybe a way to connect with people who like to clown football in the rest of the world if we were to do relegation. I think it would make the rest of the world take it more seriously. And as said, it might salvage something out of this mess.

[@timeoxtdev]

Banger video rob

[@RobElderton]

Thanks dawg

[@jaybee970]

This sounds good until you have your students transfer/sit out before the bowl game since they don’t have any tie to this relegation league. They would just transfer to a school that doesn’t have to worry about losing its P5 status. Kids sit bowl games out for the NFL combine every year so it may need more incentives for the players to actually play.

[@RobElderton]

100% correct

[@atgdcommish608]

Relegation is a cool idea, but teams aren't going to sign up for it when they don't know how much money they are going to make. The Pac should rebuild by adding the best G5 teams to make the clear No. 5 football conference, with an easy shot at one of the automatic bids to the playoffs every year (the 5 highest ranked conference champs will get in, on the 5 + 7 model). Start with Oregon State and Washington State, then add Boise State, Tulane, Fresno State, Memphis, UTSA, Air Force, and New Mexico State (all with recent 10-win seasons), then add some good hoops teams for NCAA tournament cash, such as San Diego State, Gonzaga (hoops only) and UNLV (history, arena, market). Expand the recruiting and TV reach with Rice (Houston), North Texas (Dallas), Colorado State (Denver) and San Jose State (SF Bay area). Or swap some of the above with Louisiana (Rajun Cajuns!) or Hawaii or Utah State. That would be a great road trip conference if they have Hawaii, UNLV, Tulane (New Orleans) and San Diego.

[@RobElderton]

Yeah you’re idea is definitely living closer to reality than mine. It’s sad but I think the NCAA and Wu-Tang live under the same motto ‘Cash Rules Everything Around Me’

[@kwablahadjokatse1596]

When will the crowd realize that relegation is good but better to be an on and off spectrum 😮

[@kwablahadjokatse1596]

Pause the MF then regroup like pools for World Cup or March Madness 😅😅😅

[@terryfox9344]

I really like the idea. Currently we basically have a monopolistic system in America, which is what the "haves" want. It will be difficult to change.

[@RobElderton]

Damn near impossible

[@robserrano8971]

OREGON STATE AND WASHINGTON STATE SHOULD ADD SAN DIEGO STATE, FRESNO STATE, COLORADO STATE, BOISE STATE, BOTH MONTANA SCHOOLS AND ALL FOUR DAKOTA SCHOOLS. MWC CAN KEEP HAWAII, SAN JOSE STATE, AIR FORCE, WYOMING, UNR, UNLV, UNM, UTAH STATE. AND ADD UTAH TECH, SOUTHERN UTAH, NEW MEXICO STATE, UTEP, UTSA AND TULSA.

[@mrwonderfulone]

No AAC school would join the MW. AAC schools currently get $10m per school and it rises each year. The MW gets $5m The schools you mention would guarantee group of 5 status for the new conference. Only the best of AAC and MW has a chance to raise their status higher than the group of 5 and it's by far not a sure thing. It takes a lot of $$ commitment from boosters and ratings.

[@AFNick]

One team isn’t enough. Last place should automatically be demoted and the conference champ should be automatically be promoted. Make the bowl game between the second to worst team and the second place in the lower league. The relegation game would be more competitive and more fan bases at the risk of turnover would add more drama.

[@RobElderton]

I like the idea and it definitely adds more drama, but that’s going from 0-100 real quick, not sure if these schools and the NCAA are ready for that haha

[@collin9324]

I would love this

[@Grafknar]

Oh, man… seeing what was happening to the sport 20 years ago… yelling at anyone who would listen… now here we are. It’s too late.

[@RobElderton]

Yeah, sucks to see

[@joshuamountz6891]

They need to merge with the mountain west

[@pp3k3jamail]

💥💥Even though I always used to hate on the pac-12. I am sad to see it

[@DocSkirv]

It’s a great idea. Major programs would be on major upset watch as half their starters would already be in the transfer portal at bowl season. One obvious thing you aren’t considering in your analysis is that the P12 will soon be joined by the ACC in the land of forgotten toys…and the major earners in the SEC, Big ten and 12 are going to demand the lions share of revenues from the “sisters of the poor” universities in their conferences to the point it no longer is fiscally responsible to stay in those conferences. The disruption to college football has barely even started. OSU and WSU are walking out of this terrible slight with $255m, so keep an eye on what comes next for them in their rebuild. Yes, they are likely to harvest top MWC and perhaps AAC schools….but they will also be poaching major universities per the P5 situation outlined above.

[@ugiswrong]

Make the teams all wear pink and purple and then the west coast will support them

[@domtom9594]

New PAC: Oregon State Washington State Boise State Air Force Fresno State San Diego State Montana state Montana Idaho Colorado State San Jose State Utah State

[@RobElderton]

Pac West 12

[@SurfCityBill]

Sub out Idaho for UNLV

[@TheBandit025Nova]

Hang on where’s UNR if Boise State and UNLV goes so does UNR

[@drummssticks]

While this is a good idea , the problem comes with the CFP. Too much is being invested. I still think the CFP expansion will help teams stay in their conferences if they know they have a better shot at a championship. We will see.

[@RobElderton]

A lot of problems, but this would be the dream scenario

[@azero2]

Why would a team like USC accept relegation after a bad season? They could just go Independent, other teams will still schedule them and they’ll make their own money.

[@TillisIsDone]

I think adding an entite FCS conference would be ridiculous. Also if you want the best success you would need to add SDSU and NDSU from the FCS. Maybe Montana and Montana St and thats it.

[@RobElderton]

This idea lets the FCS operate as usual but gives schools a chance to test higher levels of competition

[@TillisIsDone]

@@RobElderton I don't think FBS teams would be on board with being relegated to FCS conferences.

[@RobElderton]

@@TillisIsDone yeah, it’s definitely the biggest hurdle outside of money

[@TillisIsDone]

@@RobElderton That's why I think a two conference solution added with FCS powerhouses would be the better option.

[@RobElderton]

That is much more realistic for sure

[@Matthew_lorber]

The cal disrespect

[@reecesmith849]

Adding the playoff game for promotion or relegation won’t work cause like most times in Europe the higher league team wins.

[@RobElderton]

@@reecesmith849 but there is a chance, people will watch a bowl game with actual stakes

[@reecesmith849]

@@RobElderton​​⁠that’s not my point, my point is the draw being promotion/relegation gets boring after 2 or 3 years as you know your team won’t be relegated cause you have a far better team even though your the bottom of your league

[@RobElderton]

@@reecesmith849 I think college football is very different from professional soccer where the payrolls are drastically different

[@karlsauerwein5862]

Could you imagine the lawsuits when you attempted to move an fbs school to a lower conference. this whole thing is crazy talk just move on folks nothing to see here.

[@ldbrown6641]

Wild West and Big 12 merged conference

[@RobElderton]

🤯

[@jesussaldana4558]

Im all for promotion and relegation......yall just 2 trams now....what is the ncaa and espn wigs going to scold you for....they screwed you over already....at least here it is interesting and there is nowhere to go but up

[@RobertDetert]

Not happening. The Pack 12 is dead.

[@nateg4582]

When will people wake up and realize that the pac 12 is dead and will never be revived.

[@RobElderton]

It’s definitely dead, I just want something cool replace it because as an ASU fan I now have to watch the defenseless Big XII

[@nateg4582]

​@@RobEldertonokay, thanks for the clarity.

[@DocSkirv]

It’s getting rebuilt as I even type this.

[@mikegames3464]

When will people wake up & realize that ESPN fixes college football

[@Bravesfan12345]

@@DocSkirvboth teams are going independent. Nothing is being built

[@mikefredd3390]

Nobody cares about college teams that they haven’t gone to or their kids go to. No back story no interest. Saturday NFL? Why?

[@RobElderton]

If you want to make a splash in college football you have to drastically shake things up because you’re right, there is very little interest outside the BIG 10, BIG XII, and SEC. So if you want to continue to be an over looked mid major conference, keep doing what you’re doing PAC12 and Mountain West

[@mikefredd3390]

@@RobElderton No argument here that the PAC12 was mismanaged. I couldn’t pay to watch a game. The PAC12 was the best conference this year. California teams no so good but the rest of the conference was hot this year. Oregon State was an example of how to build up a program and seems to have been punished for it. I’ll be watching Jonathan to see if he can continue what was achieved at OSU at Michigan State. Outside of football maybe something can be achieved. Hate to see baseball and basketball etc. Be punished for this silliness. Relegation is the right thing to but it only pushes at the margins as discussed here. To make bolder moves try competing for the bottom 1/4 of the teams. This could make a more significant difference.

[@CATownsend777]

Well, that was stupid.