Rebuilding a Tight/Loose Pulley Jack Shaft

[@RobertFay]

*I learned stuff. The little stuff i learned is so important. It is stuff you don't most probably know you teach. So . . . Thank you for your secret gifts of being a great teacher, Sir.*

[@paulsilva3346]

4,000 SUBSCRIBERS, and 7 years later, 169 K.!.!.. CONGRATULATIONS, KEITH.!.!

[@carmelpule6954]

Mr. Rucher, you are indeed a dedicated man and you love this renovation activity. In addition to your technical knowledge, I must congratulate you on the competency of your language. Your verbal description of the activity you have in hand is so fluent and so clear, you have a clear mind and when ever you meet a stubborn problem, you keep relaxed and give yourself time to think. Last time I saw some bearing metal being poured was for a large power-station generator . The machines which you renovate seem to be part of you and you care so much about history or engineering. Unfortunately in my country, we do not have a technical or an engineering Museum. I feel that the development of a nation is due to people like you feeling the spirit of the machines you deal with. Congratulations . My colleague renovates old and historic diesel and petrol engine and the ingenuities in these engines have endorsed in them logic and reason that most modern university students never knew. You deserve a medal and some recognition and decoration for what the community is gaining from your work for posterity of your country's dynamic history.

[@VintageMachinery]

+Carmel Pule' Thank you for those kind words. I am a huge fan of education, but I am also disappointed with most Universities for totally lacking providing training in the hands on part of learning. You can only learn so much from a book and lectures - you need to get out and get your hands dirty and learn the basics before the advanced. Most places have that all backwards these days.

[@peterlindop4491]

Keith you are a true professional engineer/craftsman, your videos are very enjoyable, many thanks. Peter. UK

[@jmustarde]

I know nothing about metal work or restoration of this sort, but I absolutely love your videos. You're a master at what you do and a natural, easy going narrator. It's a pleasure to watch, listen and learn. Nice job!

[@VintageMachinery]

+flippypoodle Thanks for the kind words - I am having a blast doing all of this!

[@bbtjd001]

Nice video. Restoring a vintage machine...you are one lucky man Keith. All the best.

[@kjcsomerville]

Nice video, regards from the UK ! Keep posting !!!

[@BigMjolnir]

Keith, thanks for the video. I've seen others put hexes on small shafts using 5C hex collet holders in mill vises, but hadn't seen the angle gauge method before. Good to know, thank you. I'm glad you are getting useful learning from viewer feedback. It's great that info can go both ways here. -- Mike

[@P61guy61]

Keith, Again, Thanks for your work and details. I helped a friend bore and bush holes in his old planer yesterday. I used the milling machine and several of your tips. Not only are you helping the museum, you are helping everyone who takes the time to watch your videos. The world needs more mentors like you.

[@TheLucyAndFrankSHow]

Wow, Keith. Incredibly impressive. I stubbled across your posting quiet by accident, but I am happy I did. Not only do you have endless skills, you present your process with incredible detail.Great job, and thank you for sharing!

[@Prometheus203]

Glad I found your channel through Keith Fenner, I also enjoy old machines and seeing things like this restored. It offers such a strong connection to the people and life styles of our past. The train in the background gave me chills, hard to explain the feeling I get when hearing that sound almost like being home after a long vacation.. Who knows, maybe its a subconscious memory from another life time ;) Thanks!

[@jackcoleman5763]

Y

[@MattsMotorz]

Keith, I discovered your channel a few weeks ago and have quickly grown to love the videos you make. Just about every time I have some time to watch KZbin videos I find myself going to your channel to watch one of your videos. It will be unfortunate when I run out! They are all put together very professionally and you yourself just seem like a very nice, genuine person that loves what he does. Keep doin' what you're doin'! (Also, I cant wait to see the new furnace complete! Hope we get more videos of that soon!)

[@VintageMachinery]

MattsMotorz Thanks for the great feedback. I am doing my best to post a new video a week so maybe it will be a while before you have nothing to watch!

[@patrickjaroch5084]

MattsMotorz you said it best. as an amateur tinkerer i just love seeing this type of work.

[@ziggyr1]

thank you for a wonderful channel.i sold industrial equipment and bearings and power transmission my whole work life and it is a pleasure to see a professional such as yourself use them properly.and may i say you are also a great teacher.

[@yamadeal8286]

Thanks for sharing your adventure ! Your a good man with a lot of heart for trying to leave a look back at history for our kids !!!

[@larrysperling8801]

enjoyed the video, i always learn something from you. really liked your poor man's super spacer substitute to mill the hex on the shaft. as a millwrite in the 60's i had to learn to pour and scrape babbit. anxious to see your video,i'm sure it will bring back memories.

[@TheDisorderly1]

Wow the planer is looking great and nearly complete. I'll bet you can't wait to start her up and run a few boards through. I like the way you edit your videos and that you took the time to film this one from the start.

[@matthewlepper3662]

What a coincidence! I just spent a couple hours at the shop this afternoon cutting a 1/8" keyway one one end, and a 3/8" hex on the other end of a 3.75" long by 0.5" diameter 303 stainless steel shaft. I was able to use a 5C collet block to cut the hex, so it was nice to see how to work at a larger scale.

[@phuzzz1]

Hi Keith, Great video, excellent explanations as always, really enjoying this series, looking forward to the babbit pouring. I learned something on the angle gauge for indexing the hex end on the shaft, that will come in so handy for heavy long shafts, Thanks! Mike

[@MilanDupal]

Huge deep corrosion of the shaft. Well done!

[@thom525]

thats a great easy way to mill a hex on shaft. i have not seen it done so simply before keep up the vids ....best regards Andrew Norman

[@ronaldfontanilla7062]

Thanks keith im so happy to all your idea that always share hoping to meet you and work with you god bless

[@tom7601]

Hi, Keith! I love to watch your restoration videos. Keep up the great work and post videos when possible and the mood strikes you... :>)) Tom - Vista, CA

[@k5at]

Very good video Keith! I learned something from your technique to mill the hex on shaft. Thanks for sharing.

[@grahamspinks4801]

Another interesting video Keith. I enjoyed the struggle with the pulleys. I've not had many tight parts to remove but what I've found is that once under load a few hefty clouts with a hammer can often shock stubborn parts into releasing.

[@outsidescrewball]

Hi Keith Enjoyed the video/instruction.... I want that whistle noise in the back of my shop...love it...LOL Chuck

[@richarddeforest1201]

outsidescrewball

[@billdlv]

Keith nice work the pulleys and shaft look like they turned out good. I like your approach on putting the hex on the end of the shaft. Looking forward to seeing the machine operate. I've used a 36" planer in the shop in high school, and a 20" in the shop I work now. Both seem like toys compared to that machine. Plus it does everything to the board in one shot.

[@1693caterpillar]

Keith: Thanks for the info. Didn't know about tight and loose pulleys. Just goes to show ya, you can never stop learning. Enjoy.....Kevin.

[@1693caterpillar]

Ya Keith, It is enjoyable learning and your right, it is fun.

[@mariovergara727]

Nice work! 👍

[@molotov9502]

That 30 degree angle gauge is a handy piece of kit.

[@richdunn8613]

Hey Keith, thanks so much for your videos, I'm looking into buying a mill and a lathe to use as a hobby/part-time job when I retire. You are quite an inspiration, keep up the good work! Thanks again.

[@msumbera]

Great Job, nice presentation, thanks

[@OberdaReignbeau]

Great work! Belt is moved by the belt “shipper”.

[@doriancharles608]

Thanks Keith there always some educational insite for a beginner like me .

[@VintageMachinery]

+Dorian Charles Thanks - glad that you find the videos helpful!

[@RyanWeishalla]

Nice tip on using the angle gage to rotate the part

[@funsmasher7018]

I have been known to take a can of that compressed air, turn it upside down, and freeze a shaft with the spray/liquid that comes out. It works the opposite as the heat, but the result is the same. Sometimes, a torch is not available, or can not be used safely.

[@RandallMoore1955]

Thanks Keith, Be safe on your trip.

[@simonaldridge82]

hi Keith you cant beat a little heat when removing old parts I have also found vibration to be another very useful tool . even tapping with a small hammer can have brilliant results thanx for your videos

[@dvddale111]

Hello, enjoyed your video again as usual. In England these type of pulleys are known as "fast and loose" hence the term associated with certain people, I think! One is the drive, other is a neutral as far as I've experienced them on old farm stuff, a fork is moved across on a lever like a gear change lever and just pushes the flast belt from one to the other. This could just be different, I'm not an expert, David.

[@johncoops6897]

Well, that was redundant.... considering that's what Keith explained at the beginning.

[@dvddale111]

@@johncoops6897 Keith says "tight and loose pulleys" in GB we say FAST and loose, there is a difference, tight and fast are two different words, where I come from, anyway! Have you ever heard of a woman/man playing tight and loose!? Fast and loose, yes...

[@ajmiller7102]

Seems I am a late bloomer and just recently discovered your channel, which I enjoy very much. Though I have had limited experience with machinery restoration, I have had experience with set-up of equipment. One thing, being a history buff, is historical information you have included in some of your fine videos. In this one, the Vance Planner, was made here in North Carolina at the J. P. Vance Company in Winston-Salem, NC. Among other machinery made was an automatic cigarette machine, appropriate for NC and the tobacco industry here. Still catching up on your videos. I did watch, earlier, where you were doing castings. SGL Carbon, in Morganton, NC manufactures synthetic graphite and one of the products is "mold" stock. CNC machining can be used to create the part in the mold stock which can be used to mold the product from hot pours. The graphite is manufactured with enough porosity to allow gasses to escape, yet maintain a smooth surface. Griffith purchases a product which is used in their manufacture of RR wheels. Keep up the very informative videos and thank you!

[@gentharris]

Hi Keith, I love old iron too! I have heard that a 50-50 mix of automatic transmission fluid and acetone will out perform any penetrating oil out there. Some of the old tractor guys swear by it to un stick a rusted engine. I have not tried it myself YET.

[@homersimpsonii5455]

I will be waiting for the next video, I have only seen babbot used one time, but it was about 28 years ago and I was 10, so I dont remember exactly how it was poured. Thanks for the video.

[@ZygmuntKiliszewski]

Difficult work requiring experience and cutting tools. These are the basics of drilling and milling, among others. You should teach young people. Congratulations :).

[@neillsmart213]

And now you're at 91K :) Carry on!

[@andymandyandsheba4571]

great video keith i am looking forward to you pouring the Babbitt bearings keep up the great work

[@turbinedoctor]

Thanks for yet another great video. Thanks for passing the tip about the edge finder along to us. I had not thought of that but will try it next time I pull mine out. I understand your thoughts on that gear and would have done the same for now also. But I would have liked to have seen how you would have tackled that. Keep the videos coming and thanks again.

[@awizardalso]

I love old machinery and even moreso that you fix them. I have an electronics repair shop in my basement, and all I can really repair is older type vintage CB radios, home stereo systems, and other older electronic things. All these newer high tech electronic things are way out of my reach.

[@mcdaniel01]

another tip on finding center of shaft for cutting a keyway. Put a center drill in the quill slowly raise the knee of he machine a little at the time and move the axis of the table in and out the center drill will then scribe a line across the shaft if you do it correctly you will have a very short scribed line then just center the center drill with the scribed line by eye sight and you are on dead center of the shaft .

[@2007markb]

Hey keith Great video. I think you needed a bigger pair of pliers to get that set collar off. Keep em coming Mark

[@donpetrey8007]

Many times I have marked my shaft then pulled the pulley back off and added a dimple for my set screws seams to work good and then I use anti seize sense many people seam to think it’s not needed.

[@johncoops6897]

*sEEm (not seam, which is a join)

[@newstart49]

Enjoyed it. Would have liked to see the machine it fit on and see it in action.

[@iansilvester2992]

The bearing hangers look identical to those on an old disc plough I still use, they don't have any bearings inside but do have grease nipples. I just did up a Fordson Super Major tractor, instead of throwing the old bearings to scrap I placed them in the hangers, works well.

[@patgervais6568]

I have rebuilt a cnc mill with matched high speeds as far as 20,000 rpm and turned out over 500,000 pcs be fore adjustment was needed. It’s been 10 + years and no call backs yet.

[@shexdensmore]

Here's an idea 💡 If there's a trades/Vocational school nearby, have s teacher set-up a little contest on who can make a gear to replace one of your broken ones. The one or few with the lowest tolerance is used and possibly given an opportunity to be an intern at the museum if desired.

[@DL5FS]

nice technik with the hammer on the bolt

[@mikeedwards1534]

As always, great job Keith. I live in Athens Ga., and would love to visit the museum in the next few months, as time permits. I was wondering what kind of paint you are using on this machine. I love this look, and am interested in duplicating it on an early 1900's 48" circle mill. Thanks Keith.

[@bcbloc02]

I like to use either Loctite or never-seeze on everything depending application. When Loctite cures it keeps the oxygen out and prevents rust. It makes things a lot easier to take apart again years in the future by preventing corrosion, and of course it can keeps things from unexpectedly coming loose too.

[@luisalfredosilvaayala6707]

muy buen video gracias yo tambien soy tornero fresador y me gusta esta profesion sigue adelante con tus enseñansas que son muy buenas saludos desde colombia colega...

[@brockgriffith5271]

I know this vidoes been up a while but thanks for sharin the good info and showin how to get stuck parts out. how much heat to and not to apply and to what sections depending on what part youre tryin to break free. thanks keith

[@FredMiller]

Wonderful video! I especially like the way you indexed the hex cuts on the mill. No reply or comment necessary. ;^) Thank you Keith!

[@MatthewTinker-au-pont-blanc]

Just a thought, I would have thought that there was very little wear on the loose pulley bearing as there was only the load of the belt on it, not zero load, but nothing in comparison with a drive load. Thank again for your great videos, regards, Matthew.

[@MatthewTinker-au-pont-blanc]

***** Is there a Tight/loose pulley that serves the whole machine, or would that have been on the line shaft? I have no experience of line shaft installations, I understand how the work, but I'm probably not alone in being interested how the drive set up was for the planer matcher. How about a video at some point to show how it's set up? Thanks again, regards, Matthew

[@MatthewTinker-au-pont-blanc]

Thanks Keith.

[@bluegrallis]

Once you pick up one edge of the part and zero the DRO,, then move to the other side and pick up the front edge, there should be a 1/2 function on the readout. Press it, then the X or Y, depending on which axis you are setting up, and move to 0 on the readout. No more dividing by 2 in your head, when it's built in to the display.

[@Wunji1]

I'm 46, and can't start my life over again for the most part. But, if I could, I would love to be a machinist!! Wish my dad had taught me more of this stuff - he worked in the ship yards! Good stuff Keith! Need a helper? haha

[@VintageMachinery]

+Wunji1 It is fun to make things out of nothing! So your dad worked in the ship yards - now that would have been a neat job. I wish I could go hang out with some of those guys and learn some neat tricks!

[@Wunji1]

The old saying applies - "He's forgotten more than I'll ever know" - for sure. He is getting up in years now, and has lost his sharpness - but I have learned so much over the years that I am able to make a living at doing things he taught me. Blessings to you my friend!!

[@pegbars]

@@Wunji1 That saying always struck me as odd. I understand what it's trying to say, but if someone's forgotten it, then they don't know it.

[@rc166honda]

Love your work Keith, that's some beautiful looking cast iron what paint did you use? that subtle satin black looks perfect.

[@janetsterno]

When finding the shaft center when installing a keyway an easier way to do it is 0-0 sweep with an indicator side to side. Also you should make sure to use a reground endmill (about .007 to .010 under) on the od. just in case a full size cuts oversize. A nice brand new carbide end mill for finishing is the "cat's ass" if you have one.

[@Rustaholic777]

Yes get that four sided planer running. At the Buckley Old Engine Show we have a member that brings one to every show and our Education Days where hundreds of 4th grade students see it. What a mass of belts and pulleys his has. I want a video of yours running. Education Days happens in three weeks and if I can get a video of his I might be able to post it.

[@Rustaholic777]

***** I was really hoping you would make a new gear for that very worn out one. The way you teach is helping me a lot.

[@petertyrrell6690]

To center on a round shaft for milling a keyway, Insert a point into your mill , place a steel flat on the shaft you intend to mill. (The shaft is clamped to the milling table) Lower the point onto the flat. Adjust the table position and point height until the flat is parallel to the table. You are now centered. Takes no time and you don't need a DRO. Good enough fora lot of jobs.

[@hdoug5]

another awesome video :)

[@BobWhitehelps]

Keith, I really enjoy your videos, I have a friend with an old belt drive saw mill, the motor died so we pulled the truck chassis from under my old moving van, shortened the frame & use the rear wheel to drive the mill.. Anyway he has a spare belt that is bigger than he needs so we were going to shorten it, but can't find locally the clip replacement to put it back together, any suggestion as to where we might find one...???

[@VintageMachinery]

+Bob White You can get the belt lacing at places like McMaster-Carr but the tool to lace with is pretty expensive new. You might look on ebay for a used "Clipper" belt lacer - the kind you use in a vise works fine and is a lot cheaper than the fancy model we use at the museum.

[@jimmilne19]

Interesting video. Nice rebuild. I really enjoy your videos. Do you have compressed air out at the shop? It seems that an impact wrench would serve you well. There is a lot of back and forth, back and forth with the socket wrench that could be made easier for you and would be faster. Thanks for posting.

[@harvindersingh118]

Thanks Kieth I want to know how set the three pulley planner machines stppper setting

[@trumpy81]

It would be a good idea to make a pattern for that gear now and store it for when it's needed. Right now that gear is intact and some good measurements can be taken from it. Down the track you don't know how that gear will end up and it might be more difficult to measure etc... Best to be safe than sorry :)

[@franksprecisionguesswork501]

Keith , Love you videos. I have removed rusted on shafts both by soaking in muratic acid and by electrolysis with borax solution. A word of warning though don't try acid method on Zinc parts! I would be afraid of running the machine on that worn gear . If it breaks, it libel to destroy the driven gear too. At least make a plaster mold so you have a good pattern to start on a new casting. Cheers Frank P.S. Do you have any original Shays at the museum?

[@tobyw9573]

Franks Precision Guesswork - Muriatic acid is great stuff, but dangerous. If you add phosphoric acid or metal prep it leaves a nice phosphate coating as a base to paint on. I once reduced a press fit sintered Chevy balancer to a loose spinning fit by leaving it soak over the weekend, so beware active materials.

[@shodanxx]

11:00 , wire wheel on grinder, no guard and with gloves !

[@VintageMachinery]

+shodanxx Yep, no guard because it won't let me get the wheel where I need it to go. Gloves because they protect my hands from that nasty wheel. Dangerous - maybe to some people without brains and who are not capable of taking responsibility for their own actions.

[@MrUbiquitousTech]

+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org Thank you!

[@DennisDA]

Keith, You could have saved having to used the l angle when cutting the hex end. Just run the shaft until you can used the 30 degree angle. Whast you've done is merely skipped one of the faces. You can come back and get that one as the last cut.

[@VintageMachinery]

+Dennis Doolittle Good idea!

[@andregross7420]

Key Keith, how many machines have you restored? You really seem to know what your doing and I cant wait to see what it looks like when it's done.

[@62346]

Keith...ever hear of paraffin wax as a penetrant? Aplly it as solid and heat the part? Thanks for the videos!

[@dannycarico5801]

Ha Keith, Hard to find flange gear. Bore it , sleve it with a flange and cut the old flange off Have a great day

[@rconn269connln]

The best way I learned from an old man before aerosols penetrants were used and works as well or better is to heat it up and then touch a candle to it it will sweat it like solder and turn rust to grafite.

[@daki222000]

Hi Keith, thank you for the great video (s). surprising that the drive pully is not keyed, while the drive gear is. The amount of torque would be the same on both i would say. i would fear simple setscrews will tear out when the machine is put in work. Or did i miss a key in the drive pulley while watching? What is your vieuw on this, Keith? b t w, doesn't such a centerfinder (on the mill) need to kick out of alignment first to get a good reading?

[@bx2200]

Thanks for another interesting video! What kind of steel did you use for the new shaft?

[@klm062599]

Is there a reason they didn’t grind flat spots on the shafts for the set screws to make contact?

[@ThisIsToolman]

The wrench will have clearance for a nominal hex.

[@wyattstorches8814]

Thanks again for making these ... Did you check or do anything to assure straightness of the shaft? Seems the bearings could take a beating if it isn't pretty straight.

[@wyattstorches8814]

Also, how important is the finish on the shaft surface where it mates with the Babbitt material? Should it be polished?

[@philippboetcher9959]

Love it!

[@987kestrel]

Have you ever tried oxpho blue on cast iron? If so do you have any particular reason why you do not use it?

[@medtec6747]

Have you gotten a air over hydraulic jack for your press yet?

[@jonka1]

I'm wondering why when milling the hex you had the front clamp so far from the cutter. Is this not risking chatter and flexing of the shaft? I am sure I saw the shaft move slightly near the beginning of your very first cut.

[@boldford]

Keith. You rotated the shaft 60 degrees for each flat on the hex but you said 30.

[@Cockroach2008]

That idler pulley, in the video, 180 degrees opposite the setscrew, looks like it was cracked. Maybe that is a dark oil line or something else. It is especially noticeable after the surface was cleaned up & placed on the shaft & you gave it a hand spin. Is it a problem or just a blemish?

[@Cockroach2008]

***** Thank you for explaining. I figured it would be something like that. I fully expected you had inspected this part for structural integrity before working on it. It would be foolish to perform all that work only to deem the part unserviceable.

[@morelenmir]

I noticed exactly the same thing! I think some of it is a trick of the light which makes it look wider and more broken than the actual blemish really is.

[@pegbars]

Keith... Y U no use Liquid Wrench at all?

[@jamietti]

Bless the metric system.

[@Opinionator52]

Hi Keith, I know the new poured bearings won't run enough to wear much, but wouldn't the original ones have had removable shims you could remove as the bearings start to wear? I think it would be cool to put some in there for authenticity sake... If it had them that is (just wondering)... :o] O,

[@Opinionator52]

***** I figured that was the case with the old ones. It's good to hear that you're going to put back in it's original state! :o] O,

[@pedro1066]

A great vid. I do love watching them. Can I ask, did you have any concerns about cutting the keyway vertically? I used to do it like that until Keith Fenner did a vid showing 2 prop shafts, One had been machined exactly as you did it there and he put some of that stuff that shows up cracks, the other had been milled horizontally... difficult to explain.... but he said that it was a much stronger shaft.

[@VintageMachinery]

I will have to ask Keith about that. I seem to recall seeing that video but I don't remember him saying anything about one milling operation being better than the other. I think that one of the shafts had developed cracks in use.

[@casycasy5199]

what museum are you at

[@ianmacpherson2409]

Ian Autu trans oil is really good at lossening up rusted metal

[@adkinsfabricationandthenso3488]

Hey Keith, my name is Peter Adkins and I am not rich by far, but I love fabrication work, lathes, blacksmithing. I am looking for a smaller anvil. If you ever come across one that is very cheap and even if it needs some love. I am your guy.

[@adkinsfabricationandthenso3488]

[e-mail]

[@derekspender7948]

Will you "tin" your bearing housings or just rely on the key holes? I served my apprenticeship with a general engineering firm in the days when pouring white metal bearings was common.

[@derekspender7948]

***** Yes I tend to agree. Cast iron isn't easy to tin in any case. Probably why the original constructors used the key holes.

[@derekspender7948]

***** I hope that you didn't take my comment as a criticism. In fact I admire your work. I started my Fitting and Machining career in 1950 but I still learn from watching your videos. In engineering there are many ways of doing the same job. None of the necessarily wrong. Rather it depends upon the equipment available and the job which is being undertaken.

[@stevewatr]

Hi Keith, did you discover an alternate shop use for a chicken waterer? : )

[@RobertFay]

*Having screw-ups is so very fortunate for all good teachers like you. What comes from it is so important; "I must have had a math screw-up, and then the process of NOT thwarting self by going on to make things properly what a Master "wright" does. (**www.google.com/search?q="wright")** ||| Thank you for bringing your teaching gifts to us all. ||| And with that, may i once again raise a toast to Mirthful Irreverence, everywhere.*

[@joetiller1031]

I heard you say you like to have fancy press check out Keith Fenner's press all home made out of parts he had really sharp press I know I ask him where he got his press he said he made it I could not believe it but as you know he's real handy.