Tim Keller: Our Cultural Tension

[@jackjones3657]

Dr. Keller does a wonderful job of relating to the unbelieving world as a Christian, without being condescending or self righteous. He offers Truth in love without compromising sound biblical doctrine. False doctrine and capitulations for selfish ends are all too common today.

[@fdbassociatesllc7889]

You so accurately expressed TK’s approach: Truth with love and the absence of condescension or self-righteousness. Thank you!

[@paulpimentel4632]

Fast forward 5 years, and this sermon lecture could have been given last week and it would be more urgent , than even before.

[@cfkurtz]

This is SUCH a timely TOPIC! There’s SUCH cultural ambivalence about our political situation. I know Pastor Keller does not SHARE his political views, and I underSTAND that. But NOW, I am speaking more OPENly about how I’m LEAVING the Democratic Party, who have done MORE to reach out to the poor, I beLIEVE, than the Republican Party. But in toDAY’S political pandemic of anger and animosity, I’m finding there are more and MORE men and women who are part of a different, GROWING group of ‘Me Too’, and THIS Me Too refers to former Democrats. One of SEVERAL reasons was when I shared with a pastor friend that I was listening to Rush Limbaugh on the radio, I can’t reMEMber anything else, because one of my pastor friends yelled out, “Charlie!!! SHAME on you!!!” I was SO astonished, I can’t remember what else that had been disCUSSED!!!” This pastor friend is a registered Democrat, and so am I, but now it’s so WAS I!!! I haven’t made it official YET, but I felt July 4, 2020 was a good day to LEAVE the Democratic Party. I’ve lost a lot of memory and ability after a nearly FATAL brain aneurism had me in a coma for 4 weeks. My MOM called both of my brothers and told them to hurry down to CA if they want to say ‘Goodbye’ to me beFORE I die. Well, obviously, I did NOT die, but for the rest of my LIFE, I’ll be quoted for what I SAID when Dr. Vespa and the medical staff DID manage to save my life, and I woke up after 4 weeks. When the staff asked if I recognized the weeping woman at my bedside, my wife of 17 years, I said, “I’m not sure who she is, but I think I like her a lot.” (Of course I had to be TOLD I said this, because I can’t remember saying anything!!!). To hear my story go to KZbin and run a search for “Charles Frank Kurtz”, then spread word that miracles still happen to this very day my being alive to even say this is a miracle!!! (I now know WHO my wife IS, just FYI ☺️)

[@davidhawley1132]

Great stuff. I love seeing Keller showing the strategies he talks about in his book on preaching - looking deeply at our culture and how Jesus addresses those deepest needs.

[@_joshwalter_]

Keller is astounding. I wish I could adopt him as my grandpa.

[@tedpetrone4537]

Yoshija Walter. There has to be a line drawn somewhere or else you'll be dining with the likes of Hitler & Stalin.

[@JRMVallejo]

Yoshija Walter bBbbbbsFbssFng

[@anthonymaniacimusic2336]

knowledge puffs up.

[@deankelly5019]

Ian G Then don't worry about. You have made your choice and I assume you are comfortable with it. Let the chips fall where they may. I will pray for you today.

[@mademoisellemsc]

Yoshija Walter lol

[@daynehaworth9258]

Brilliant philosophical, theological, psychological, social commentary on the tension between individualism and collectivism. I also agree that biblical Christianity (not modern Christianity) is the perfect antidote to the desire to have imbalance in our approach to the individualism vs collectivism debate. The same could be said of capitalism vs socialism. When you are a Christian with Gods heart neither capitalism or socialism are necessary because of healthy biblical individualism and healthy biblical collectivism being held in tension: 1) Healthy Biblical Individualism: 1.1) you take individual responsibility for your sin by submitting your life to God knowing He will judge you according to your individual sins. 1.2) You are also aware that God has granted and predestined each of his individual children with different natural abilities, gifts, dreams and passions to fulfil in order to build and grow His Kingdom. 2) Healthy Biblical Collectivism: 2.1) You are not swayed by cultural, tribal collectivism or identity politics. You realise that the body of Christ transcends race, ethnicity, gender, age, culture or class. Therefore we set aside some previously held cultural norms as we embrace Christ and kingdom culture. 2.2) You realise that the way you love God is by how you love others. Loving our family/friends/tribe/race is worldly collectivism. Godly collectivism is loving people of other tribes, languages, social class. Even loving our enemy. 2.3) Thirdly we are part of the local and global body of Christ. We share our homes, possessions, energy serving and caring for members of the body whether they are in India, our local church or a downtown version of our denomination. Thank you Tim for this brilliant perspective. May we choose the balance well. In all areas of our lives.

[@mikedavid3087]

This is such a good speech, and one of the prime reasons that there is such cultural tension in relation to historical judeo-christian roots and its application today is that for a long loooooong time the Church and Christian community has interpreted their personal beliefs and convictions and doctrinal and even 'Word-based' dictates through and INTO society and culture. There is a duality or dichotomy that actually should not exist if Christians and the true Church simply lived their convictions within the bounds of the Church and the providence of God, stuck with those convictions in the face of 'evolving culture' and then allowed the contrast to speak for itself.

[@simoncollins493]

I wish he was my grandpa also. He deals with subects in a simple,yet profound efficient way. This is the Holy Spirit, talking through him.

[@carolmills5422]

Thank God for pastor Keller and for so many clearer insights on being a true follower of Jesus in our heavily divided culture of world views and mindsets.

[@josephflahiff5236]

I love Tim Keller's preaching. The only critique I have is, he seldom if ever gets to HOW. He ends with the SHOULD. I'd really like more HOW.

[@rjminns]

Although Keller doesn't recommend reading Taylor's "A Secular Age", I recommend reading James K.A.Smith's ' "How Not To Be Secular". It is a wonderful, chapter by chapter presentation of the ideas in "A Secular Age", growing out of an in depth seminar on the book. After reading Smith's book I confidently feel I've had the thoughts of "A Secular Age" communicated to me so well, I feel as though I've read it.

[@JeremeeTyler]

love Tim, none like you brother.

[@cellasedui6061]

"Not for a moment did the sexual liberators stop to consider the effects upon the poor of the destruction of the strong family ties that alone made emergence from poverty possible for large numbers of people. They were concerned only with the petty dramas of their own lives and dissatisfactions. But by obstinately overlooking the most obvious features of reality, (...) their efforts contributed in no small part to the intractability of poverty in modern cities, despise vast increases in the general wealth: for the sexual revolution has turned the poor from a class into a caste, from which escape is barred so long as that revolution continues." (Dalrymple, Life at the Bottom, 1999).

[@jaredlovely3439]

Liv Hwhite i see this as truth and agree, but struggle to make practical connections from cause to effect. especially with regards to communities of color.

[@shonagraham2752]

What Bible do Americians have where you stone people?

[@gtymewach9643]

Jared Lovely Absent fathers

[@tomz1daful]

@@shonagraham2752 John ch.8, it was Jewish law to stone to death the adulteress. The change in society came about because of "a certain Rabbi".

[@jackjones3657]

Modern individualism fails because freedom without boundaries quickly becomes self-imposed slavery. He is not saying that strong commitment to individuality and uniqueness, which Christianity affirms, is a bad thing.

[@johnmarshall4874]

great and truthful message! Keller called it "The New Cultural Narrative" which in the end is sick sexual selfish individualism out of the gutter of the 1960s.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

Collectivism as ideology actually gained strength after the 60's. Today more people (including keller) are sympathetic to Marxism and communism than ever before. Keller is putting up a scarecrow, when it is collectivism that holds the greatest danger for society. Individualism is the smallest minority. Keller is for critical race theory which has it's roots in Marxist thought. m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/b321o6Gjo9mVe5o&feature=emb_title

[@prayunceasingly2029]

It's fitting that a pro Marxist pastor would promote the collective over the individual. The individual (unless that individual holds dictatorship) is a subject to it's society and it's trends.

[@mawuliamedofu6909]

Really thought racking!! Thinking how African's are approaching these ideas!!

[@maggiebritz220]

Thank you -

[@TheGotlogic]

Stunning.

[@ianyboo]

Stunningly dreadful, if his beliefs are true then billions of people are going to be tortured for eternity. That's horrific, what kind of monster could worship a god that allowed that sort of thing?

[@hnozima]

Would it be possible to list, in the description of the video, the names of the books quoted by Keller?

[@tingowealeans5712]

A Secular Age by Charles Taylor and Habits of the Heart by Robert Bellah were the two main texts, then he referenced Nietzsche and then quoted from some C.S Lewis sermon called the Weight of Glory. There may have been another I can't remember.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

He also references the good intentions of Marxists m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/b321o6Gjo9mVe5o&feature=emb_title

[@caydab1]

Somewhat simple assessment? Martin Luther said that sin turns man in upon himself. This entire lecture-and I enjoyed it-could be brought down to Luther's statement.

[@r00kie104]

thank you for sharing this

[@ginochiavacci1757]

He IS wonderful, isn’t he?!!!!

[@caydab1]

Ah another Luther triumph! He is responsible for the place of VOCATION as one of the primary avenues for love of God and neighbor. Thanks Marty.

[@johnny2303]

Is he saying Ayn Rand is wrong?

[@prayunceasingly2029]

He thinks Marx was somehow right m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/b321o6Gjo9mVe5o&feature=emb_title

[@prayunceasingly2029]

He also thinks critical race theory is right

[@marytitus00]

Ayn Rand was wrong though? She was an atheist who despised Christianity and was an objectivist whose entire philosophical was based on selfishness as virtue.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

@@marytitus00 Good point! 👍

[@prayunceasingly2029]

@@marytitus00 I couldn't read your other comment, it was deleted

[@mackdmara]

I know many people who identify by their sexual choices. They tend to hate those they think do not share their preferences (outside the tribe), & are defensive about their choices (distrust people who are outside the tribe). I do not judge them for their choices, I just know they are wrong. I am not the author of that law. When they want to address it I will, but it is only to save the person. I have no need for hate. You never reach someone by telling them how evil they are. It has adversely affected their lives. It is such an identity that, if you have a need that interferes with their interest (like a dying relative) they are genuinely put out & all over you to see to their desire. Your needs are subservient to theirs. Now, this is a specific case, but it is also in line with the larger trend he was expounding upon. One of these people is normally a very kind & generous person, except in this area. I hesitate to say this, but it reminds me of a drug addict. If something you do is who you are, what happens when you can no longer do it? If you are hanging on something like that, let is go. Your identity is in God. I can get behind that.

[@zach2980]

Every person has dignity and rights, and yet every person is born with an inherited sinful nature and worthy of hell.? So the story goes. Who thinks it’s OK to punish a child for what their parent did? As if what a non existent “first” woman did was wrong anyway. If anything she was framed.

[@margaretmiros1672]

8.50 what happened was a reaction to totalitarianism

[@5tw3b45tcf]

29:50

[@kathyroberts7232]

ITS SIN BUBBA.., SIN SENDS US TO HELL BECAUSE WE HAVENT ACCEPTED THE SACRIFICE JESUS MADE ON THE CROSS..., to FORGIVE OUR SIN.., remember.,,,HE WENT TO HELL IN OUR PLACE..., so we can have ETERNAL LIFE.. love yall...

[@jude143]

What does this have to do with the fact that man is "wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked" (REV 3:17)?? What does this have to do with the fact that man has been separated from God by his hatred and rebellion of God's Holy law and must fall on his face prostrate in a grievous state of repentance?? (ROM 6:23, REV 2:5, LUK 13:3) The only mention of repentance was when he said the church needs to repent of not solving the world's social problems! Outrageous. The Great Commission has NOTHING to do with social change. This man-centered, self esteem oriented marxism explains nothing with regard to man's desperate condition in light of the Holiness of the one true God! The problem is sin...the answer is the gospel. You don't get Jesus because he is "everything you are looking for to correct your self esteem issues"....yikes! You bow to Christ, DIE TO SELF and become a slave. What a travesty that people are soaking in these false therapeutic messages.

[@camer138]

If you look into Keller's history and also Robert Bellah, who he keeps quoting from, both of them delved quite a bit in Marxism. It's sad when people, especially Christians, think socialism is the answer to societies problems. Jesus said the change to help the poor and oppressed needs to come from the heart, not from the government at the end of a barrel. At the end he says "We are neither Individualist nor Communalist, we're Christians." My response.. Yes Tim.. yes we are. But what about the individualist society you have been bashing this whole sermon? You don't just have a governing system that forces the world to adopt a certain belief. When government holds such power they become corrupt; nearly every Communist/Socialist run society is either violent and/or oppressive. He loves to trash talk conservatives, yet it's the welfare state and identity politics of the democrats/marxists that got us into this mess. Multi-culturalism is a bad idea Teacher unions and removal of Christianity from education is a bad idea Marxist oppression olympics are a bad idea Normalizing Homosexuality and Trans-genderism is a bad idea Modern day feminism/man hating is a bad idea ^^^these are all things that marxists sympathize with. Individualism gives people the freedom to pursue what they want, and that freedom can lead to Christianity if we, as Christians, evangelize and work to teach the values we get from the bible.

[@missc7627]

Thank you for sharing your ideas. I believe you are expressing a sincere concern. I also believe Tim Keller stated at the beginning of his talk that he was presenting a lecture, not a sermon. Aren’t you being a little self righteous? If I was giving a lecture on nutrition, would you expect me to explain repentance of sins?

[@garyzies3486]

Jesus is not a socialist and he did not come for us to turn this world into a socialist utopia. He came to tell us the truth and expects us to speak truth to our neighbors. This is how you love people....tell them the truth. Tim Keller is heavily involved in this "social gospel" and he misguides many believers. I trust that the Holy Spirit will lead me into all truth.

[@lauren4434]

I very much appreciate your comment. I. couldn't put my finger on why Kellers talks and sermons do not 100% gel with me, with my spirit. I am a very contemplative drawn person, I. go outward to join my brothers because I have heard amazing truth within, and had a revelation of sin in myself, and a need of a savior., in great need of a gospel of grace, not the message that community saves. Thank you for your thoughts.

[@garyzies3486]

@@lauren4434 John 14:26. May the Lord bless you and your family.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

He supports the ideals of Marxism and ties it with Christianity, while talking about why individualism is bad?

[@rageingbull56]

What parts of Marxism does he support and where? I haven't seen this?

[@prayunceasingly2029]

@@rageingbull56 I used to listen to Keller a lot to be honest. I have probably listened to one hundred hours of his sermons in my life. So that you know I am didnt start from an a position against his ideas. He's a very talented preacher. Unfortunately some of his non Christian ideas aren't so obvious to his audience

[@prayunceasingly2029]

@@rageingbull56 My previous response sent to you with links was deleted by KZbin, not by me. Any time someone posts a link, KZbin erases it now.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

@@rageingbull56 In Generous Justice (2009) Keller writes: This emphasis in the Bible has led some, like Latin American theologian Gustavo Gutiérrez, to speak of God’s ‘preferential option for the poor’.[16] At first glance this seems to be wrong, especially in light of passages in the Mosaic Law that warn against giving any preference to rich or poor. (Leviticus 19:15; Deuteronomy 1:16-17) Yet the Bible says that God is the defender of the poor; it never says he is the defender of the rich.[17] Keller was citing Gustavo Gutierrez - the founder of liberation theology Here's a quote from gutierrez: Gutiérrez writes, “For some, participation in this process of liberation means not allowing themselves to be intimidated by the accusation of being ‘communist’. On the positive side it can even mean taking the path of socialism.… This transformation ought to be directed toward a radical change in the foundation of society, that is, the private ownership of the means of production.”[18]

[@prayunceasingly2029]

@@rageingbull56 From the new calvinist article supporting the view that Keller is at least in some way ideologically Marxist, here is a paragraph near the end: Timothy Kauffman has examined Keller’s claim that God’s radical plan is that ‘we are to work together to make the world a better place, to help each other, and to find purpose for our lives’, and demonstrated that it does not come from biblical wisdom, as Keller wants us to believe, but from a Marxist worldview. To convince his readers of ‘God’s radical plan’, Keller quotes from the writings of three Marxists, Robert Bellah, Gustavo Gutierrez and Reinhold Niebuhr, without mentioning their political affiliation. In effect, Keller has surreptitiously replaced the gospel of Christ with the utopian ideology of Marx, and presented it as biblical truth. The importance of Kauffman’s analysis is that it demonstrates how Marxist ideology can masquerade as Christian truth.

[@sammohardy9002]

God so much of the history about the black power, gender liberation and suffrage movement in this video is super biased and plain old wrong...

[@stephenburdette9160]

Sam, it would have helped thoughtful discourse if you had included some real content to your concerns.

[@g_unit6773]

Wolf in sheep's clothing

[@prayunceasingly2029]

Absolutely. A slick wolf with really really convincing sheep's clothing. But he showed his wolf face by supporting collectivism, Marxist thinking and critical race theory. He actually defended the good intentions of the first Marxist thinkers.

[@Gumballs66]

Keller has surreptitiously replaced the gospel of Christ with the utopian ideology of Marx, and presented it as biblical truth.