WinWing F-16 EX Stick Review

[@King2Stone]

This stick's massive array of controls will pair excellent with the AH-64.

[@streetmachine8211]

Just what I was thinking about.

[@TrickerDCS]

Thanks for making me feel funny downstairs

[@npc6817]

Got the stick, sometimes the rumble does that on rough landings

[@SportDCS]

Kudos to you for the correction from the previous review. Shows a lot of integrity to set the record straight. Thanks for doing these!

[@RedKiteRender]

Thanks, mistakes happen, It's important to correct them. Also reflects WinWing's poor wording in the manual. Hoping my feedback will prompt an improvement to it.

[@aaronwhite1786]

@@RedKiteRender It's definitely something I never picked up on with my Orion, and I've had it since October.

[@philhealey2520]

Ive had it since they came out and I never noticed either. Much respect for pointing that out

[@jfiery]

😢🥞😮Sunday d😊7😊I 😮Sunday night my 😮🎉she 😢27 jgrjmmmt😢jc

[@KayoMichiels]

'Yo dawg i heard you like hat switches, so i put hat switches next to your hat switches'

[@ziljanvega3879]

If you want rumble effects, you can also mount a small transducer puck to your hotas mount. It works fantastically. I have them on my throttle, stick, chair and each pedal foot rest. This does require a sturdy mount like Monstertech, and usually a seated frame so the transducer vibrating puck back isn't resting directly on the metal mount.

[@RedKiteRender]

That's a pretty neat idea, however what i really want is force feedback, which is a level above mere rumbles.

[@FutureDotexe]

@@RedKiteRenderso now there’s Mozas ffb base…

[@Veni_Vidi_Vortice]

I have a subwoofer under my desk and your rumble motor demo made the whole desk vibrate. It was unexpected and I thought it was a heavy lorry driving past my house for a brief moment.

[@RedKiteRender]

Haha I did raise the volume of it a little to make it easier to hear, perhaps a bit much?

[@Veni_Vidi_Vortice]

@@RedKiteRender Nah, only people with subwoofers, like me, will be affected and we tend to be fans of sustained rumbling anyway.

[@MandalorianOfMiatas]

Don't know what else to say but thank you! Also like it when the reviewer is honest but humble too, which I think you are, so again, thanks!

[@RedKiteRender]

My pleasure!

[@W4lkerWings]

Thanks Red. As a satisfied Virpil CM2 user, I didn't realise I needed a new joystick already!

[@RedKiteRender]

Just wish they supported the TM style attachment for handles, to make it compatible with other bases.

[@mumblerinc.6660]

@@RedKiteRender This, so much! I was very interested in the F-16EX grip, but finding out that WinWing has gone out of their way with a 6 pin solution for no other reason than to make their grips incompatible with 3rd party bases, while still offering conversion kits that enable 3rd party grips to be used with WinWing bases just left a very, very poor taste in my mouth. Why insist on locking people into their brand like that? Neither Virpil nor VKB does that. I wanted the F-16EX grip, but I don't wanna have to buy a whole new cam base for it. And most of all, I wanted to replace the TM stick I'm using on the RealSimulator FSSB base with it. WinWing doesn't even have a force sensing base of their own, so that's not an option no matter how much money I'd throw at them. I don't want to sound petty, but this all turned me off getting the Orion and F-16 throttle grip as a TM replacement. It wouldn't have interfered with my sticks, I just don't want to support WinWing if they're going to resort to locking people into using their brand.

[@Rex-ii2yz]

@@mumblerinc.6660 Yep, was seriously looking to get this to replace my warthog grip on my Virpil base. Guess thats a no go now.

[@yappydawg8985]

Just a note about the F16EX. WinWing customer support was very clear with me that the F16EX does NOT come with the extra buttons. You need to order the "Shaker Kit" to get those extra buttons on the side. I wish I knew that before I ordered the grip from the other side of the planet. Pretty nice grip in any case.

[@ernestwinslow7316]

My Winwing F-16EX arrived 3 days ago and I really like the stick. It is far easier to control aircraft with this stick. The Apache was notoriously difficult to fly with my old Thrustmaster A-10/F-16 stick but now I find the AD-64D very enjoyable to fly. Coming to hover and landing is so much fun and easy without the constant crash with the old stick. In addition, I downloaded some profiles from the SimappPro application that added a vibration effect to the stick. The rumbling of the stick each time the Apache is about to enter a stall really helps. When I get that subtle vibration, I know it is time to add some power thereby avoiding that annoying stall and crash. I really like the SimappPro providing the features of being able to download profiles from their cloud and work your way up from those profiles as it suits your needs. The extra buttons and configuration options are a big plus. The Winwing F-16 stick is a huge upgrade for me

[@verarc]

The sheer amount of buttons on this thing is understated. Half of the buttons go unused, but granted I also have a throttle to pair with it. This thing could do just about anything you need it to.

[@JPROP-vb7sv]

They sell a cam and spring kit to customize the tension

[@thewarthogproject]

I think it needs more buttons and hats.

[@RedKiteRender]

I think they could fit a couple more 5 way hats

[@Nightwolf323]

I'm super interesting in this stick, looks great! My problem right now is Winwing's restock/ordering system. You can't backorder so you're stuck waiting for them to restock it, before which it gives you a 24 hour timer. However, the last one of these counted down to zero, and never actually went back in stock, just straight back to "restock unknown" (this was a few days ago). They then pushed the restock date back a couple days, then it went to unknown again, and now it's listed for a full month later, not until March 15th! I understand it's a new product but it's a silly wait to not even be able to purchase it for months, and then not even be sure if there will be any available when the restock timer does reach zero.

[@whiskey2117]

I don't understand how to order it either without a backorder option or any contact to their sales. RedKite, can you give them this feedback ?

[@wurfyy]

You can pre-order it right now. Idk if that's something new due to complaints like yours or I'm misunderstanding something you're saying.

[@Nightwolf323]

@@wurfyy yeah that's new as of 2 days ago, already reserved mine :D

[@philhealey2520]

They have them now ;) great vids also!

[@bfish9700]

My dad got a thrustmaster when I was younger like 30 years ago, I've always loved the f-16 and while this is pricey, I just had to get it. Definitely overkill for my needs but I'll never need another joystick.

[@Fester_]

Phew - we got through that. I am trying to get back into Elite. Wow, what a lot to go around nowadays. Thanks for the info.

[@MAJORCARNAGE257]

I feel like the feedback would be perfect to feel when you have the AIRBRK/SPDBRK as well as when firing the main cannon

[@rwhunt99]

When you put the air brake on, I do feel it in the stick. Also when you raise and lower the gear, you get feedback. I haven't tried any of the profiles other people have uploaded, because I just don't have time, but I think I will give them a play to see what's what.

[@boltactoinbarney]

For the f16 specifically the real stick only moves about an 1/8 in any direction. With a hard stop. It would be nice if you could tighten it up and calibrate your inputs to more of a pressure feel than all out moving the stick across your lap. Or your desk. I know the software allows for alignment and input % but the stick still moves the whole range of movement. Even with 10% set. Maybe future models can incorporate this.

[@RedKiteRender]

Future models already incorporate this! The Orion 2 joystick base has a force sensing kit that replicates this functionality, it'll be released sometime in the near future.

[@Cheiff117]

Looking to pick this stick up with the F15EX throttle grips , and VKB-SIM T-RUDDER PEDALS MK.IV upgrading from my 4 year old T1600m !

[@pedditte84]

thank you for the review...I'am interested to buy this, but also the Virpil WarBrd base catch my attention...have any suggestion Mr.Kite?

[@RedKiteRender]

I use a Virpil WarBRD as my main, with a TM Warthog stick. I'm currently debating whether to use the Orion/F-16 or continue with my WarBRD myself! The WarBRD is a better base, smoother, better stick fitting, customisable with cams/springs to pick from, has a couple degrees more throw, compatible with TM sticks. But it's got a little wobble to it when you move it quickly, then stop, with the stronger springs. Overall, i like the WarBRD a bit more, but neither are a bad option. Your choice of stick may influence the decision.

[@theeltea]

Vpc mt50cm2 + tmwh grip

[@pedditte84]

@@theeltea yes dude, I image WarBRD base + TMWH grip, but is more expensive that WW Orion grip+base for F16EX

[@theeltea]

@@pedditte84 No, no, you need to focus and listen closely. MT50. CM2. Forget WarBRD. CM2 with a curved extension is what you want and need. Nothing better on the market for articulating bases.

[@theeltea]

@@pedditte84 Nothing. Yes, I've tried everything. Literally.

[@joshuagarcia874]

Hopefully Winwing will make a left handed version, as two of these would make a GREAT solution for the Apache's TEDAC

[@mirshia5248]

wont happen, both wining and vkb have a grudge for metal left hand

[@CodeRed001]

This thing impressed me so much I bought the grip and it arrived but I havent even bought the libra base or extension yet. I honestly can't think of ever needing another stick ever again after seeing this one, it really has everything you would ever want. I got a modified microsoft force feedback 2 stick with a thrustmaster topgun grip modificaiton and stick extention that I use for helicopters and that stick and this one are going to me by 2 defaults for life.

[@shenmisheshou7002]

You mentioned using it with a Harrier. Can you comment on how you set it up to do the vectored thrust?

[@delayed_control]

What's hilarious is that other than the VKB sticks which are barely produced, this is the only stick with a slew sensor. Virpil's "redfor" stick replicas all have hat switches where the real thing has a slew sensor. This is probably the best stick for Ka-50 even though it's a modified F-16 stick...

[@RedKiteRender]

It's a funny situation to be in! I hope it drives some extra competition from the others.

[@mustang2593]

Virpil's constellation has a slew hat.

[@CaseyBartley]

VKB SCG, MCG Pro and MCGU all three have analog slew, MCG Pro has 2, and MCGU has modular 1, 2 or none. Also they are readily availble for most everyone but the EU, which is only because they have to be imported to keep the price down as far as possible, and aren't drop shipped.

[@patrickdrives]

​@@CaseyBartley Strange, I bought a VKB stick in EU exactly because it was easy to get. Even looking again just now, they are in stock at this time.

[@CaseyBartley]

@@patrickdrives Some stuff can be hard to get there when they are new, but yeah stock is pretty consistent on stuff that has been out for a while.

[@Bryan-ty8wq]

I believe I heard that right, that this stick will work on my Thrustmaster Hog Base (connecting into it not the base plate) and all buttons will work? or is that the Orion base fits on the TM metal base?

[@RedKiteRender]

The Orion base fits the same mounting plates as the TM warthog base, the stick does not fit the TM warthog base.

[@Bryan-ty8wq]

@@RedKiteRender Appreciate you clarifying

[@danielmajoros5291]

hey RedKite, great video, thank you. Could you please measure the dimensions of the throttle? Width x height of the base and the full height of the throttle+base (let's say in the middle position)? I am trying to figure out whether it is too big for my DIY mount. I think my TWCS is waaaay smaller. Thank you!

[@rizbelusa]

I was going to buy the F/A-18 Grip then I watch this and other F-16 EX Grip reviews. I just bought one with the Super Libra Base and Joystick Extension. $580.85 including shipping to San Diego. It'll replace my VKB NXT Gladiator Premium.

[@dreaux88]

Thank you for the video. I ordered the F-16 EX viper. What is that attachment you showed? Can it be put on a Virper? If so where do I get it. I could use some extra switches. On the Win Wing site the only thing I see close to that is the Shaker attachment, is that the same thing? Thanks for your video work.

[@JD96893]

i really like my budget VKB NXT stick. But the gimbal is pretty bad after 1 year of use. what i really like about this stick is the button count. Also the price isn't bad either!

[@maotseovich1347]

Mine's still just as awesome as when I bought it after over a year of fairly heavy use, but I've kept it under a cover religiously since I unboxed it. I haven't even allowed dust a chance to fall on the knobs on the base. Easiest solution is buy the cheapest long-sleeve t-shirt you can find at Walmart (or your local equivalent), cut a sleeve off and tape the end shut. Cheapest solution is to wrap and odd sock round the gimbal every time you stop using it. Nicest solution is buy two 12x8"/30x20cm strips of fabric and sew them together on the long edges and one of the short edges. I think there's some rough guides on r/hoggit or r/hotas on how to clean and lube up your gimbals if your stick's gimbal was ever good and has gotten gunky.

[@Daisudori]

what happened with the gimbal?

[@JD96893]

@@Daisudori even with the lightest spring its too stiff. There is a fair amount of wobble in the center position before the springs and cam or what ever engage. The detent to get out of the center is very big. And finnally the gimbal range isnt very big imo(i even 3d printed an extension to help). If you do any air to air refueling or fly helis it gets very annoying and makes things very hard.

[@CaseyBartley]

@@JD96893 it's one of the downsides of using a plastic gimbal, even the reinforced kind that the NXT has is that over time they get "loose". Just no real way around that.

[@davidburton1038]

is the push in feature of these 5 way hats distinct and not accidental when trying to push up on them vs In? i Have the Constellation Alpha from Virpil and the 5 way hats on that stick I have to disable the push feature on some of them because up and in are so indistinguishable. a real shame for such a button filled stick

[@RedKiteRender]

The push function is distinct from the directions, I've not pressed it by mistake thus far.

[@ernestwinslow7316]

@@RedKiteRender Great to know this is not an issue with the WW F-16ex. I have this problem with my Virpil CM-3 Throttle.

[@Rex-ii2yz]

Was going to get this, but its not compatible with the Virpil base.

[@reload54]

For the life of me I can't get the screw hole on the collar to end up on the rear, it always ends up on the front if I want it tight. I tried to screw it down with one less half turn, so it aligns with the rear but then the stick is not tight enough and has rotational play. This is frustrating for a stick this expensive. Edit, I think my stick has qc issues as the screw hole is in the wrong position and also after a month of playing the spring inside has snapped. i wish they would have included extra springs as back up but overall with all the problems I still think it's worth the price and frustrations.

[@hralch1234]

Thanks for this great review! Do you know if this stick can be installed rotated some 15 degrees to the right? I want to use it with an extension between my legs...

[@TheQueer23]

I love watching these videos despite being a teen with no where near enough money to spend on these things

[@Redadeg72]

Indeed a very good Stick. But how have you configured the "select and deselect" gun in the KA50? I mean its a effing great thing with this possibility of a button, but in game i have only the option for a "select gun" (mapped on Button2) and a "gun fire" (mapped on button 3) but NO opporunity fot "deselect gun" (which should then be on button 1) hat deselects the gun it i flip this thing upwards. Thanks for the clip.

[@RedKiteRender]

I mapped the toggle to multiple positions on the flip trigger, long as it's in sync at the start of the mission, it'll stay correct. ED really need to add specific on/off commands for that, yes.

[@rwhunt99]

I just received my Winwing F-16ex joystick and I am confused about the two levers and how to use them. They don't give you any help whatsoever about how to properly set them up. Wondering if you could do a video on how to use these in a real world scenario in DCS? Because there is buttons and sliders combined, not sure what to do, to make matters even more confusing, they show you you can modify the trigger position of the 41 and 42 keys on the Rz axis, but don't explain how or make any suggestions for use.

[@RedKiteRender]

I wouldn't bother moving the positions of the virtual buttons. As for using, the paddle switch, just set it as needed, if the aircraft has an analogue brake lever (like the spitfire, mig-21/19 or mosquito), use the analogue input, else bind the button for features like the paddle on the hornet. The top flip trigger is a Russian style guarded arm switch for the cannon. So on the KA-50 you'd bind select gun and then fire on the trigger, or the flip trigger if you wanted. No need to use all positions. Generally just bind it to replicate what your aircraft has in the pit.

[@rwhunt99]

@@RedKiteRender I use the weird flip trigger on top for my Hornet lowering and raising of the launch bar, I have the Orion 2 base and they have now additional cam Kit for use, not sure if that would help your situation with the springs.

[@MrPhantom453]

So with all those switches and two of these joysticks, I should just about be covered for the CPG position on the Apache? 😉👍 I do like the analogue paddle switch though. Great for aircraft with differential breaking.

[@RedKiteRender]

Analogue paddles w/ button should be a standard feature on sticks! So handy without changing the outside form.

[@Spelljammer1]

Another great review. One major question left though: how much does it weigh? That's the notorious issue with the TM's version after all...

[@RedKiteRender]

Lighter than TM's stick by a good margin

[@fonesrphunny7242]

The notorious issues are the unreliable sensors and the bad material used for the gimbal. Weight is only a problem if you try to mount it. On a desk the TM Cougar sits absolutely solid.

[@rwhunt99]

@@fonesrphunny7242 If you mount a stick on an extension - it does have a tremendous effect on the balance of the stick. This is especially concerning because WinWing does not have adjustable springs. So while it might be great without an extension, the weight of the stick amplifies with an extension causing the stick to fall forward (or other direction).

[@philhealey2520]

@@rwhunt99 i have the longest extention that winwing do for the libra on my f18 orion, cant say ive noticed any issues except for the lack of damping which is something i got used to pretty quick

[@Spelljammer1]

@@RedKiteRender Is it half the weight though?

[@danield489]

I didn’t look too much into it yet myself, but I’m curious.. Will the ‘rumble’ feedback feature still function if this stick is attached to a Virpil CM2 Base (Or another base for that matter.) and you still run the SIMAPP Pro in the background after configuring it?

[@RedKiteRender]

Got to run it in the background to have the features (same as light sync for the base) The Handle is not compatible with Virpil or WH bases, just the orion base is compatible with TM WH mountplates.

[@White_Raven_Films]

@@RedKiteRender I got the non ex version, and it seems I don't have vibration motor inside :( can't find any more info to make sure that the baseline sticks don't get it but so far I couldn't find any info

[@MedusaSquadron]

Love stick & Throttle, where and when it will possible order it? Thx.

[@RedKiteRender]

In the description

[@bretttrommler756]

Is there any way to test the rumble in the software, say... when you're editing a profile?

[@marcw.5492]

Have you tried the extension with the Orion Bass / Stick ?

[@ColonelAkirNakesh]

BTW is that your DIY button box in the center? Great review!

[@RedKiteRender]

Yes indeed, designed and made it myself.

[@emilattila]

love the stick as i resently got it tho the softwher cinda bad. i mainly like flying the a-4c-e mod but like i lerned the forse fedback ONLY works whit a fiew arcraft and they dont suport mods. So no vibration motor for mod aircraft

[@rapidrapid01]

Is the Rumble FeedBack worth it? I wonder how long the Rumble will last will fail after long useage?

[@fonesrphunny7242]

It's just a tiny motor with a weight attached to it, just like every gamepad in the last 20 years. Axis and buttons usually go bad long before these motors do. Even if, replacements are really cheap, easy to get and only require 5 minutes of soldering.

[@rapidrapid01]

@@fonesrphunny7242 Thank you for the responce.

[@ColonelAkirNakesh]

Is yours feel really loose and almost sloppy right in the center? I love my stick but it feels a little funny compared to how my TM Warthog stick centered. Maybe I'm just getting used to it! BTW binding zoom to the antenna elevation on the throttle is really nice.

[@RedKiteRender]

It's a side effect of the centre detent system. You're in-between the detents, so the resistance is reduced.

[@harksgaming7455]

Have you had any problems with the stick so far?

[@Mailman_NOB]

RedKite- I am using Combat ready panel and looking at your video at 3:40 mark you have option to edit profile...I only see option ...coming soon...What version of sim app pro you are using, and can you edit your Combat ready panel profiles via sima app pro?

[@RedKiteRender]

The current public version, you need to log in to access profiles.

[@nicolaskrinis7614]

One year later, software is still stagnant. I can't create a dybanic vibration profile for the Su-27 and derivatives. Love the hardware, loath the software. Does anyone have any ideas as to how to create a dybanic vibration profile? Excellent vid btw, thank you :)

[@Mirage16605]

when will they be available for purchase? their website doesn't say

[@CloudlessEchoes]

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, do you know how the stick compares to the warthog or ch fighterstick in terms of size?

[@badgermilk760]

might have been asked willl it work with the Libra (with the feedback t00) :)?

[@sofloemir]

lovely, but says pre-order and not available for sale? so I pay nearly 600 bucks and wait to see if it comes from a Chinese company? can someone advise?

[@skinnyflea2628]

Im curious about how the switches/buttons feel compared to the tm warthog stick. Are they of similar feel? Maybe quality?

[@RedKiteRender]

More clicky/tactile than TM, don't particularly feel better or worse, just different.

[@MsRifle]

You you currently own the warthog? Im curious. I would like to upgrade from my T16000 to a Worthog but I hear folks saying that the WH feels cheap compared to winwing and Virpil. How does the WH feel to you if you own it?

[@RedKiteRender]

The TM Warthog's base is what's terrible, the stick is good and solid, if a little heavy. Trouble with the gimbal on TM is it's made of plastic and has issues with sticking / high restitution. The Bases from WinWing and Virpil are leagues ahead in that respect.

[@biggus3348]

@@RedKiteRender I'm using a broadly similar setup to yours, a WH stick on a WarBRD base. I found the Orion Hornet stick's hats quite vague. Is the new F-16 stick an improvement in that regard? I'd really like to retire my decade old WH at some point!

[@mumblerinc.6660]

@@biggus3348Word of caution, you can't use the F-16EX with the WarBRD base. You'd have to get a WinWing's own cam base (WinWing wants to lock people into using only their products by making them incompatible with 3rd party bases), so you're better off getting a Virpil grip instead.

[@MuscleMan38K]

Is possible to use this stick on vpc cm2 base and still have full function?

[@RedKiteRender]

Not compatible with Vipril bases.

[@MuscleMan38K]

@@RedKiteRender thank you

[@judgejbrown]

Does the Z axis you can purchase from winning work with the orion base?

[@IRoNCLaW]

Love this video Redkite. I’m glad to see ED, software, and hardware entities finally sending things your way. Your videos are top notch, Question: - Will the F-16EX stick work with the FSSB-R3 base that I use with a Thrustmaster warthog stick? Do the plugs / securing mechanism match?

[@RedKiteRender]

Nope, sadly their stick is only compatible with their own bases. (see the assembly at the beginning)

[@DunneDjan]

Is there an option that the stick only can be moved in the way that a real F-16 stick would move?

[@RedKiteRender]

Yes, although it's not available yet, the Orion 2 joystick base will have an option for that.

[@BRed]

What are/who makes those switches on your Virpil mount?

[@RedKiteRender]

I designed, 3d printed and made it myself.

[@PhantomMark]

What is the weight of this stick handle please ??

[@hanhtrungnguyenuc6838]

please give me more info about that collective 🎉

[@benjaminrayburn]

Thanks for the video. How's the size? Is it 1:1 or is it scaled down reference the Thrustmaster?

[@RedKiteRender]

99% the same size as the Thrustmaster, slight differences, but you'd not notice unless you've got them side by side.

[@fonesrphunny7242]

@@RedKiteRender Now I wonder even more how anyone is supposed to reach those 'parasite' hats. I tried on my Cougar and had to twist my hand around the stick by 45°. Maintaining a grip was very difficult and not comfortable at all. With an elevated palm rest I could maybe use the lower hat, but not the upper.

[@kon1351]

Can you add curves in the sim app pro

[@MGRracing]

looks nice that does!

[@EbonySeraphim]

Got my F-16EX stick yesterday and I think this review misses something I think is worth criticizing: this stick is not-well put together in terms of physical button actuation and the electrical/digital activation. This is most noticeable on the 2nd stage trigger detent where the Thrustmaster clearly activates the 2nd stage when you physically hear and feel the "click" but Winwing's trigger will pass the same point, and it won't have activated the button. You can easily hold it in this position having 1-2 more millimeters to press before activation. Considering how DCS is typically played I don't think this will be a big issue for me, but I haven't played a real mission with it yet (only casual fly around and shooting ranges). Also, in general, the buttons are just weaker on this stick compared to Thrustmaster. A hard hit from a solid object, or a drop on the head of the stick is far more likely to break off a button or switch from Winwing than Thrustmaster's.

[@RogueSpecterGamingOfficial]

Really wish the trim hat was more like an axis like it is in the real thing.

[@expertnewbie]

It's a 4-way hat on the F-16 sidestick, not an axis.

[@Vike1121]

Does the f16ex stick come with the base or would I have to also buy a base?

[@RedKiteRender]

You can buy them separately, or a pack with both.

[@matt_rm7313]

Nice video, I wonder if the joystick includes a Z axis ?

[@RedKiteRender]

Optional extension with the Z-axis kit, however it's not recommended with the Orion, but is compatible.

[@matt_rm7313]

@@RedKiteRender Thank you for your answer

[@azaryhaaurilen181]

@@RedKiteRender i wonder what they mean by "not recomended" like.. will it jsut e a li ltoo long.. or is it going to affect anything else... liek lifetime of hte stick etc... because i has no space for pedals. >.< and that XZ axes is rather nice to thave....

[@RedKiteRender]

@@azaryhaaurilen181 It lacks a clutch, so with a longer extension, it'll bob around and wobble more. The spring will be weak, It's not designed to handle the extra weight and leverage. Shouldn't impact life, just quality of the motion.

[@mirshia5248]

@@RedKiteRender what does that mean? what if u use it what happens? because without z axis kinda useless for space games

[@StuartBoyer]

Got mine and its setup for my aircraft but vibration will not work no mater what in game. It only works on the test page.

[@RedKiteRender]

There's a button somewhere, you've got to select a profile in the software (requires log on) then run that profile, and launch dcs.

[@StuartBoyer]

@@RedKiteRender Yeah I may have to reach out to WinWing. I have the profiles loaded and running but still no joy.

[@RedKiteRender]

@@StuartBoyer Did you give SimAppPro the path to your dcs save folder? (so it can install the script to allow their software to read events in the sim)

[@StuartBoyer]

@@RedKiteRender Yes it is pointed to it. I think I fixed it though. Seems that using the Stream Deck XL with it changed the Lua file. I had to have the simapp restore it then change the lua again for the stream deck. it works now, just gotta check on the Stream Deck function later. Thanks for the help.

[@fredcm1]

very nice stick

[@Cooper_013]

Hold up…. During the refuel part, you’re moving the stick all over the place, but the jet is hardly moving. Please tell me how??!!! Like what exactly did you change and to what?

[@RedKiteRender]

Add a little curvature to your axis in the tuning, gives a little more 'wiggle' room around the centre at expense of accuracy on the outer limits.

[@Cooper_013]

@@RedKiteRenderwhat kinds of number on it are we talking about? Cuz I’ve had some in there, but it still feels super sensitive….

[@RedKiteRender]

Varies highly depending on the aircraft and person, just dial it up yourself until you get the results you need, then if it impacts your flying precision elsewhere decrease it. As you practice you'll need less and less. Having an extension can also help reduce the need for it. Depending on the hardware/person anything from 10-30 can be needed, though 30, will make it feel slow when you need the performance.

[@Splint993]

Which base would you say would be best to pair this with?

[@RedKiteRender]

Orion as is, Libra if you want an extension

[@leperchaun194]

What's the difference between the Orion 1 and Orion 2 base?

[@RedKiteRender]

Orion 2 joystick base is a general upgrade over the older design, featuring swappable parts.

[@leperchaun194]

@@RedKiteRender gotcha, thank you!

[@araynortassadore3056]

Goodluck getting one

[@andreasplosky8516]

Does it have twist axis? IF yes, then I will order this immediately/

[@Rockethead293]

Additional twist axis is avalible on Winwing store for 80 bucks (currently out of stock)

[@Smokeyr67]

There has to be a more “elegant” solution to routing those throttle cables.

[@RedKiteRender]

It's the price you pay for the modular throttle handles. Got to remember too, most bases just have the wire go through the handles into the base, and they still undergo strain, it's just not as visible. The wiring of an X-55/56 is scary!

[@Smokeyr67]

@@RedKiteRender Yep, but at least that wiring is hidden, an important feature in consumer electronics (let alone something with as small a market as this!) Still, it won’t stop me from hitting the add to cart option when it appears on their website :) WinWing are doing a great job, I just really hope that they come out with a collective, cyclic and (not very likely) a set of pedals for the AH-64

[@theeltea]

@@Smokeyr67 No, it's not important.

[@Smokeyr67]

@@theeltea it is if your looking to sell to “non enthusiasts” .

[@theeltea]

@@Smokeyr67 Non-enthusiasts just get what they see at a retail store, probably a Saitek.

[@CakePrincessCelestia]

FFB base when? :) Stick seems decent, and I'm positive about the paddle axis. FInally someone who makes that right.

[@RedKiteRender]

Best of both worlds! was a serious ahah! Moment when i discovered it was a button and axis.

[@felixf4613]

Would this stick work with the Warthog base?

[@RedKiteRender]

Sadly no, only compatible with WinWIng's bases.

[@felixf4613]

Okay. Thank you. 🙂

[@Ash007YT]

How many buttons? WinWing Yes all of them

[@cellokid5104]

I’d like to upgrade my stick and throttle and my budget is around €400-€500 I am currently considering the win wing Orion F-16 stick an F-18 throttle. Does anyone of you have a better recommendation for my price range?

[@rgreening4256]

Yes VKB MCG pro.

[@RedKiteRender]

Virpil are well worth a look too, (better bases)

[@NicholasGeorgePrior]

VKB MCGPro Is the best of the consumer/enthusiast level sticks

[@Farming-Technology]

The vkb MCG feels very cheap.

[@bjjman95]

Does this twist for rudder action?

[@RedKiteRender]

You can buy one separately, but it acts as an extension, so not good for use on the top of your desk, only mounted.

[@bjjman95]

@@RedKiteRender Ok, thanks. Do you happen to know if the hotas F16 stick has a z axis?

[@machintrucGaming]

Do they make rudder pedals ?

[@Greenfuel6]

Now they do😊

[@Peacekeeper-118]

Damn my 18 year old Force Feedback 2 still kicks this "rumble" stuff to the bin. Sadly the rest is dated.

[@kazansky22]

This reminds me of the JF-17 stick more then the F-16 stick.

[@RedKiteRender]

It is an f-16 stick at it's core, but yes with those extra switches, it certainly feels like a redfor style stick.

[@Sokol10]

Without the (optional) left side module - with the 2 hats and trigger; is an conventional F-16 stick (Warthog stick don't have the "paddle).

[@RedKiteRender]

@@Sokol10 A-10c does have a paddle, it's just mounted on a box on the extension, not the handle itself.

[@janekwozniakiewicz6638]

how much it cost?

[@littl3spy]

it is all fun and games until you see the 125USD shipping price for a HOTAS. (at least to my place)

[@EnvyCT9A]

Just so some viewers don't get confused, theres actually only TWO warbirds that use the brake lever in the sim, those being the Mosquito and the Spitfire. Everything else (K4, A8, D9, P51 and P47) use toe brakes.

[@mumblerinc.6660]

… you do realise that IL2 exists, right?

[@CaseyBartley]

Add in IL2 and there are more as most of the Russian planes use the handbrake.

[@EnvyCT9A]

@@mumblerinc.6660 have you looked at my channel? Given Redkite primarily covers DCS content, I figured it's a safe assumption that's what he's talking about. It's still true though, the only planes with paddles are Brit planes and Russians. Literally 3/4s of the planes use toebrakes.

[@EnvyCT9A]

@@CaseyBartley toes still outnumber paddles

[@CaseyBartley]

@@EnvyCT9A eastern front it's close to 50/50, western front it's mostly toe brakes. If you fly nothing but the Russians it's virtually all hand brake. While using toe brake enabled planes the single hand brake works fine in IL2. It's a tad janky in DCS to do so. I have a setup with each. So really depends on what you fly. Jets with nosewheel steering it's not even necessary for toe brakes IMO.

[@simeonspates54]

Will it work with war thunder

[@MozTS]

[arnold voice] *it’s not a tumor!!* [/arnold voice]

[@vanguard9067]

Already out of stock, with potential restock unknown:-(

[@Astro75mm]

whats the point of these reviews if the hotas is out of stock?

[@Macbille]

I love to play with my stick

[@bjjman95]

Why the hell would you put the stick between your legs? It's a viper not an f18 or f15 lol

[@RedKiteRender]

Because the A-10c uses the same stick, and because it's not on a force sensing base perhaps? That's why its on the side in the F-16.

[@bjjman95]

@@RedKiteRender Isn't it on the right in the A10 as well?

[@RedKiteRender]

@@bjjman95 Nope centre, the stick handle itself is rotated about 15 degrees counter clockwise too.

[@bjjman95]

@@RedKiteRender Ok, sorry I don't know shit ab the A10.

[@mirshia5248]

need left hand version

[@holdernewtshesrearin5471]

Just curious. What does that thing cost? Im not a gamer. Just wondering. Seems pricey.

[@RedKiteRender]

Links in the description

[@hoassi]

Some talented Chinese got big improvement after using VPC cam to replace into the winwing base.

[@RedKiteRender]

What are you on about, VPC uses a double cam system? Unless they really took apart a CM2, but that's too big?

[@hoassi]

@@RedKiteRender I show you a video, hope it won't be ban by youtube, let me know if you could watch.

[@RedKiteRender]

@@hoassi I'll be interested to see what you mean.

[@hoassi]

@@RedKiteRender I pasted the video link twice, both were deleted by youtube, please search "成都翼胜猎户座F18摇杆更换自制VPC" in google, you can find it, let me know if you success or not.

[@JarppaGuru]

0:22 after review send it FREE back lol

[@cody42069420]

Man I wish I had the $$$ to upgrade

[@Big-Timbo]

can i have yours lol, im a poor student. how do I get winwing to send me free stuff

[@RedKiteRender]

4-5 years and 1000s of hours creating videos to attract an audience for little to no return otherwise!

[@Big-Timbo]

@@RedKiteRender wierd flex but okay

[@RedKiteRender]

More a half mad joke about the awful state of youtube for anyone trying to create on it.

[@Big-Timbo]

@@RedKiteRender pretty nieche audience tho init, can't expect a huge return

[@RedKiteRender]

​@@Big-Timbo I'm not fussed about being/staying small. The troubles are It's less the niche, more youtube's business algorithm hammering those who don't adhere to their model of what's profitable. The over aggressive ads forced on people, driving them to block, of which some 70% do, coupled with youtubes disregard for notifying users who are already subscribed. KZbin itself can be pretty hostile, especially if you're just starting out. It often leads people to make worse content in the name of the algorithm, like specifically targeting 10 mins to enable mid-roll ads, so they add a bunch of meaningless rambling and/or harass the viewer to sub/bell to try and game the system for example.

[@Piki79]

If your new to the channel get a decent setup and start practicing if you cannot afford or aquire real flying practices before Dat Putin War hits us over here.