From HeroQuest to Advanced Heroquest | What Connects These Two Games?

[@fbarbirato]

Advanced Heroquest is the most streamlined yet deep pure rogue-like RPG light dungeon crawler ever made. Board game historians like you good sir will revisit this game and make it right. They will look past the "failure" of not being HeroQuest, or not having all the miniatures to play with in the box and will instead look at the grim dark master piece that it is. Games like Shadow Dark that made a million on Kickstarter for people abandoning D&D 5E are eerie similar to Advanced Heroquest. The black and white art, the old school vibe. This is what folks are craving for today and I am one that discovered this gem late and am loving it!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Advanced Heroquest is absolutely brilliant. I am definitely drawn to games that have that traditional art and gloomy aesthetic. The art for Shadowdark was superb.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I didn't list all of the artists. Yes, John Blanche was the art director for Advanced Heroquest. He retired from GW in June this year.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I was listing artists who had full plate work in the rules alongside Gary Chalk, and I don't recall any of the full images being Blanche's work, as he was overseeing the art direction in general. Considering Wayne England worked on the cover of the rules (art which also appeared on the box), it would have been strange to me to leave him out.

[@EriktheRed2023]

Thank you! It's great to have someone who knows their stuff lay out the differences. I hope this video will turn out useful to a lot of people.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks for watching. I hope some people find it helpful. I probably forgot to cover something important!

[@MatthewCaunsfield]

I too was persuaded to buy, based on the name and cover art!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Who could resist that cover art?

[@nickellingham1764]

AHQ artwork is beautiful. The rulebook cover is a masterpiece! And all the small illustrations to larger ones make it almost worth buying just for that. The photos on the side of the box are amazing - but slightly misleading if you didn't know what comes inside....or what doesn't!! I no longer own a standard Heroquest, old or new but might pick one up for extra bits and additional maze board.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

The Advanced Heroquest book is my favourite for just flicking through and looking at the art and reading the tables. It's bloody lovely. My classic HeroQuest games now serve only as expansions for Advanced Heroquest. It's great to have so many more period accurate monsters, furniture, and the maze.

[@nickellingham1764]

I had a copy back in the day when it was released 1989?. even my sister would play Heroquest when she got bored with her My Little Ponys!! Where do I find the stats for skaven/monsters not featured in the rule book? Im sure you probably told us but I didn't pick up on that. @@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring

[@nickellingham1764]

Query - Both the 1990 HQ complete in good condition via ebay and the new hasbro seem almost the same price. Does the 1990 version go notably better design wise with AHQ ? I cant afford both so thinking 1990 more sensible ?@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring

[@Darkreaper1982]

I got advanced when I was younger because me and my brother played HeroQuest so much. Think we played Advanced once, then went back to HeroQuest and never touched Advanced again as it was too complicated and didn’t flow as quickly (we were both very young when we got advanced!)

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I can relate to that, and from comments I have had in the past I think a lot of other people can to. When 11-year-old me bought Advanced Heroquest, all I had to go on was a thumbnail of the box art, and I was expecting something very different to what I got. I've grown to love it now, though.

[@amandafisher4233]

Great video! My hope for a reboot of Adv Heroquest would be built around a core design principal that is based on what Adv. Heroquest seemed to being trying to do, but takes advantage of having a consistent developer to provide a more streamlined experience. Concept: "Rebooted Advanced Heroquest" provides a set of additional rules that uses all the monsters, cards, and terrain of the base game and expansions to provide an ever expanding system for limitless adventures. It should retain the same D6 dice pool system of Heroquest. All monster cards, NPC's, etc should work seamlessly with the new system to build encounter decks. A character creater should be provided that could reasonably reproduce the existing heroes, and optionally could add some additional skills and abilities for more roleplaying and progression. It should include a map for overland travel and system for assigning locations to all heroquest adventures modules that is map / lore agnostic, a la league of dungeoneers. It should have a procedural dungeon system, a la Adv. Hq, to provide limitless replayability with all those components players bought in all those expansions. I could see it being marketed as a standalone game or even as an expansion, perhaps with a different name to avoid direct comparison with Adv. Heroquest. Perhaps "HeroQuest: Worlds". What do you think?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I wouldn't call it a reboot. Advanced Heroquest gave you all the tools to use HeroQuest to flesh out what you got in the box, but it was a very different game, so I would see something like you are suggesting as being different again (and definitely deserving of its own name). I do think it could be interesting, though. I have a video going up on the channel relatively soon talking about pitfalls of HeroQuest in general, and with how Avalon Hill are handling it, and I think something like you are suggesting that opens the world up and lets people play more epic campaigns would be a good thing for the game system. There is a risk that it would move HeroQuest too far away from what it is and what people love, but I think at some point that becomes necessary as simply creating adventure modules as Avalon Hill are at the moment for heroes that don't have much else to achieve only has a finite lifespan. So, yeah, I would certainly be interested in seeing Avalon Hill tackle something like this that adds more scope.

[@amandafisher4233]

Thanks, and I totally agree with the direction you are thinking. Rather than a product like Adv Heroquest, which is really an elevated Heroquest that uses a more advanced set of rules, I think the market would be more interested in a new box set or expansions. That provides "scaffolding" - for lack of a better word - around the existing HQ system and components to build I'm more replayability, roleplaying, and sense of place to the standalone adventures.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

@@amandafisher4233 Yeah. I think one of the concerns is Avalon Hill will just run quest packs until the legs fall off, and once there is a downturn in sales, Hasbro will pull the plug. It would certainly be interesting to them develop some kind of robust framework for hanging campaigns on.

[@stevesx10]

I have never played Advanced HQ, would live to give it go! I would most definitely buy it if it were to be released again, id imagine most of the followers of 2021 rerelease probably would too!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

It's a fantastic game. I don't think Games Workshop would ever consider it for a release. It's so far removed from what they are doing now, and what they think their audience is after.

[@Valentine82]

I bought Advance Heroquest from Games Workshop back in the day thinking it was going to be Heroquest part 2 and remember being bitterly disappointed opening the box. Still feel burnt today! Stay clear! 😂

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Ha. While I can relate to that feeling, I wouldn't have it any other way now. It was a long road for me to love the game, but I got there in the end, and I'm so glad it turned out to be so different.

[@johnmiddleton4291]

It would be great to see a re-release of AHQ, just for the gamer tears on BGG.

[@carlosbarreto4695]

I would love to see that as well, specially if there could be ways to connect both systems.

[@jeremycarnes1656]

I've never played AHQ. Ive only seen it online. I'm certainly curious about it, but at this point I've expanded HQ so much with breaking down other games for their componrmts, creating new content, and being just ad eilling to go off the board and stay on it, that I don't know if I'd use it.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

If you found Advanced Heroquest clicked with you, it's a game that will draw you in the same way HeroQuest has. There are so many enemies to collect, quests to play through, custom rulesets, and more. It can be a bit of a slippery slope if you are really into homebrew.

[@jeremycarnes1656]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring are there expansions like the ones for HQ?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

@@jeremycarnes1656 Not really. There was one expansion, Terror in the Dark, which I have covered recently on the channel because I made my own copy. It had a big new quest and loads of additional rules, but no new miniatures. Then there were a lot of White Dwarf articles containing expanded rules and new missions. Because the game contains rules for a lot of different enemies (40 in the core set alone) one of the main ways to expand the game is adding the relevant miniatures.

[@nickellingham1764]

I picked up an immaculate copy for £120 from ebay not so long ago. The expensive part is the compulsion to acquier the additional minis. And if you win the lottery - Terror In the Dark expansion

[@vincentvonderlinden6952]

A good video as always. Just a quick question: What sleeves do you use for your HeroQuest cards and what can you recommend?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

You mean original HeroQuest with the small cards, right? The sleeves I used are Yucatan Card Sleeves 54 x 80mm by Sleeve Kings. They also fit the cards from Space Crusade. If you mean modern HeroQuest, I don't sleeve those cards.

[@vincentvonderlinden6952]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Thanks a lot for the quick answer. I meant the original HQ and find your answer very helpful.

[@malcolmlayton2050]

I enjoyed HeroQuest and Advanced Heroquest (and still do) ... not quite as good as Advanced Hero Heroquest and HeroAdvancedQuest ... but they all pale beside Advanced Quests for Heroquest Heroes who have Advanced

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Ha. Those were the days - when everything had a nice, easy to remember name. You had HeroQuest, HeroQuest Advanced Quest, Advanced Heroquest, then there was Dragon Quest, and who can forget my favourite game of all time DungeonQuest, which of course had the expansion Heroes for DungeonQuest. Fortunately, I've never confused them with the Ravensburger game Quest... and fortunately only one Quest game had dragon in the name, or it might have been confusing with DragonStrike (not to be confused with Dragon Strike), Dragon Lance, and of course, Dungeons and Dragons. (Incidentally, Advanced Quest for HeroQuest Heroes who have Advanced sounds pretty good. I'd play that.)

[@jonathan2950]

My head tells me when I start playing HeroQuest, I should use the new version. I think the rules are mostly better (being based on the US rules), there are more expansions, and the counters and furniture are better quality too. But man, seeing those original miniatures painted up in your video, I think I’m just going to have to go with the original. It looks so good.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

The American rules set is far superior to the UK rules I grew up playing, but classic HeroQuest is such a beautiful game. Avalon Hill have done a great job, but it isn't the same.

[@CGOLAN]

Great content as always! Have you had a chance to play Dungeon Saga you have got for birthday around three years ago? Shared DNA opinion of those two vs DS would be valuable from an expert :)

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Thanks. I don't really play Dungeon Saga anymore, It's a good enough game, but it was very clearly trying to be HeroQuest+ by addressing complaints that have been levelled at HeroQuest in the past. For example, it gave the dungeon master more options, added a timer to keep the heroes moving, and made positional play more relevant in combat. It definitely leans much more into HeroQuest, and doesn't really feel or play too much like Advanced Heroquest. I just use it as a toolbox for boards, furniture and miniatures now. Mantic Games did a Kickstarter for a revised Dungeon saga recently. I think the core gameplay was pretty much the same, but components have been improved and I expect some gameplay elements were refined. I honestly didn't look into it too much as I didn't feel the need to upgrade what I have.

[@CGOLAN]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Thank you for your opinion. context: I have not played Advanced Heroquest ever, so cannot say anything about it. I know Advanced Heroquest only from your channel. If there would be a reprint that would not be affected much by AoS crap I would buy it :) I have access to HeroQuest core box and played as a game master - with mission order from box. Bought game half year ago for my son. DS thoughts: I have bought old DS as I backed kickstarter campaign earlier this year. Played mission A and B with my wife yesterday. My observation is a dungeon master in HeroQuest is a game master, in Dungeon Saga he is a player. There are less missions than in HeroQuest, but I guess after probability calculation the adaptation to the DS fighting mechanics could be easy. I need to calculate everything in my spare time though. I still need to handle my Cursed City boxes to compare both with it (project for years I guess :D ) ;)

[@jamestompsett6234]

League of Dungeoneers, I think is probably the most similar to this I've played. A WHF skin for it would be very cool...

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I've heard some good things about Dungeoneers, but when I looked into it I felt it was going to be a bit more fiddly than I would generally enjoy.

[@erniesbiscuits8691]

So what you're saying is that Advanced HeroQuest is an early draft of Warhammer Quest 95?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

No. I consider Advanced Heroquest to be far superior to Warhammer Quest. It's grittier and more earthy, deadlier, and much more serious. It has better combat, exploration systems that are easier to work with and customise, and it has a more appealing aesthetic, bot with the art and the miniatures from that time. I could go on, but there are other videos on my channel where I bang on about how good Advanced Heroquest is!

[@erniesbiscuits8691]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring Thanks for the response 👍 Maybe you could do a mega video ranking all the GW/Hasbro HeroQuest and Warhammer Quest products up until the present day from worst to first 😉. Would be a helluva video!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

You're welcome. Thanks for watching. When I did my top 50 games of all time, quite a few Games Workshop games (or games made in association with Games Workshop) made it into the top ten, but I suspect there were some that people expected to see that weren't there. DungeonQuest ranks as my favourite game, Space Crusade is 2, Advanced Heroquest 4, HeroQuest 5, and Modern Warhammer Quest is 6. Space Hulk made it to number 14. There were other GW titles in the list, but those were the ones that made it the highest.

[@erniesbiscuits8691]

@DaVane Excellent response. I still cherish my copies of all the games you mention, especially WHQ, and I really wish GW would reprint it. Games like WHQ 95 and HQ were gateway games into WHFB and WH40K, and I never understood why GW took such a derisory attitude towards them. It got so many young kids into the miniatures hobby.

[@FizzyMcPhysics]

It sounds like I could find a pdf copy of the AHQ rules, crack out my old Scaven warriors, and use them with my OGHQ set?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

You certainly can.

[@aquilaprimedesign]

Apologies if you have addressed it in a previous video, but where did you source that 'thick walled' playmat version of the HQ board?

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

It was sent to me for review by Ian Schofield during his Kickstarter called Beautiful Dungeon Mats, which I covered on the channel a little while back. The Kickstarter is over, but you can order the mats through DriveThruRPG. You pay for the art assets (there are lots of different mat layouts available) and then send them to a printer of your choice to get them transferred onto neoprene.

[@Ribby00]

I picked up a complete copy on ebay a few months ago. I have yet to get the stones to crack it open and go for it 😫

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Don't leave it in the box. It's too good not to play. Just be really careful with those doors. They have a tendency to break very easily (I did a whole video on that). Some people swap the doors out for something like HeroQuest doors (another thing from the box you can use that I forgot to mention!).

[@marcinw2154]

Where is Warhammer quest in this comparision? 😊

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I appreciate you are joking, but to be clear nonetheless, this isn't a comparison of the two games. This video is to clarify the distinction between HeroQuest and Advanced Heroquest, as well as clarifying how Games Workshop attempted to dovetail elements from two very different game systems.

[@ulrichwacken]

but, but... WHATS NUMBER 1-3 (of your favourite games) ????

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

If you want to see my full top 50 there is a series of five videos on the channel running them down. But, spoilers... The top three in ascending order are Horrified, Space Crusade, and DungeonQuest.

[@HivisoftheScale]

Hang about, the original Return of the Witchlord came with a map?! Aww now I feel left out 😢 Oh wait, it's the same one that's in the AHQ book, whew!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Yeah, it's Jes Goodwin's map. A lovely piece of work. It's in colour in HeroQuest.

[@HivisoftheScale]

​I suppose if they wanted to, Avalon Hill could create an Elven Archer or Human Warrior character, though I'm wondering if players are getting sick of elves at this point.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

I think they have definitely done enough with elves for now. The rumour mill would suggest there is probably a monk character on the way, but not for quite some time.

[@HivisoftheScale]

@@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring This could be a fun exercise... Lets see what do we not have from D&D? Cleric: Body: 5 Mind: 5, Can't use two-handed weapons, any armour Smite: Deals damage, or more to undead -- Heal: Restores Body Points -- Bless: Give a hero +1 attack and defense for 1 turn Monk: Body: 6 Mind: 4, Can attack twice, can only use staves, uses 2 combat dice when attacking unarmed. Only Bracers. Flurry of Blows: One extra unarmed attack -- Trip: Target monster cant defend itself this turn -- Dodge: Ignores one attack Paladin: Probably same as Knight Ranger: Body: 7 Mind: 2, any weapon but no Plate. Animal Companion: See Wolf DLC -- Crack Shot: Make an extra Ranged attack -- "Rub some Dirt in it" Heal 2 body. Sorcerer: Body: 5 Mind: 5 No weapons except daggers and staves, no armor except bracers Pick one spell from each of the elemental schools, you may use those this quest.

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

How did the three mythic characters play? I know the stats and skills but never bothered running them. I disliked the miniatures, but if they wanted to reskin them (and not make the bard an orc) I wouldn't mind seeing those go to retail.

[@dalelewis625]

Ahh we were both duped. I remember reading the adv Heroquest rulebook and my brain melting.... This is definitely not HeroQuest!

[@AlwaysBoardNeverBoring]

Ha. Yeah. I seem to recall our first effort to play this being a bit of a mess!