Did Pachycephalosaurus Butt Heads? (Paleo Myths #7)

[@andreafleming9022]

Next video : Are therizinosaurus claws strong enough to fight?

[@Magy-zm6mx]

Yes please do this!!

[@jomarmarquez3926]

Pls!!!!!

[@GibbonFan4000]

I am replying so this gets boosted

[@JosephGlasbrenner]

That’s a good suggestion

[@scottthesmartape9151]

Next NEXT video: how did dinosaurs swim

[@jurassicswine]

I’d like to nominate a concept I’ve noticed a lot in paleontology as of late, but I can’t exactly give a name to. Basically the idea that just because a dinosaur wasn’t super duper adapted to do something, it didn’t ever partake in said behavior. Like Spinosaurus supposedly not being aquatic because it’s not as hydrodynamic as a tuna. Or Triceratops not using their horns for defense because they can’t withstand a collision with a brick wall. I think it’s ridiculous that just because something isn’t the ideal, perfect, god-gifted shape for something, some people automatically assume the dinosaur never did it. Polar bears also aren’t nearly as hydrodynamic as a tuna yet they spend so much time out at sea they’re considered marine mammals. I doubt any animals’ horns could survive a collision with a wall unscathed, yet basically every horned animal uses them for defense against predators.

[@walkinducks]

I don't know what it's called but it by looking at in 1 perspective

[@jahovah2979]

Correction polar bears considered marine mammals because they spend 99% of their lives on sea ice, not because they spend so much time on water. Also this spino debate has so many people confused lmao, currently it is debated if it is a shoreline generalist or an aquatic pursuit predator, thats it, there is no doubt or debate that it cant swim because yes it fucking can of course it can, a godamn trex can swim fo fuck sake

[@1kaz1]

​@@jahovah2979 I think you misread, they didn't claim there's debate about whether they can swim Edit: nvm I see where you're coming from, you were focusing on the "never did it" part, I was focusing on the "aquatic" part

[@jurassicswine]

@@jahovah2979perhaps I did phrase it wrong, yes. The point I’m trying to get across is that even though they’re obviously not as well adapted to swimming as a tuna, sea faring is still an integral part of a polar bear’s life. They are capable of swimming significant distances, and even aside from traveling between ice flows swimming is still a very common occurrence for them. Spinosaurus, I feel, was no different. Like polar bears, just because they’re not as supremely adapted to swimming as one of the fastest fish on the planet doesn’t mean regularly traversing water is implausible for them.

[@cryoking5025]

Good to know other Early Jurassic Dino’s have good taste in content(dracovenator said he wasn’t a fan of Red)

[@davidfiore4677]

Dinosaurs with horned shields, armoured tanks with clubs, and battering rams on their heads. Man, the Mesozoic Era was full of walking armoury.

[@sskuk1095]

Noone: People in comments of paleontology videos: "Props to the camera for going back 66 million years to capture this footage!"

[@bbtt4063]

That reminded me a joke: "Spinosaurus was not able to walk and quetzalcoatlus was not able to fly. What's next? Marine reptiles were not able to swim?"

[@christiancinnabars1402]

I always thought that the "their skulls were too fragile to withstand direct collisions" argument was a bit weird. _Of course_ their skulls would get damaged from repeated bashing, how do they think the fights were settled? I don't think getting a bit dizzy would drive off a male Pachy from continuing on his lineage.

[@tyrannotherium7873]

Pachycephalosaurus is one of the coolest dinosaurs

[@JosephGlasbrenner]

That’s not an opinion it’s a fact

[@SamuRhino2023]

Lol fax

[@d.w.saurus5831]

no matter how old i get, that scene in TLWJP at 07:46 where the hunter gets sent flying through the truck door and out the other side by the Pachy still makes me chuckle.

[@langustajableczna]

That's such a funny moment,I never noticed him flying out through the other door despite my brother being obsessed with anything dinosaurs when we were kids, so we've watched jurassic park movies more than a resonable amount of times. I used to read him this giant dinosaur encyclopedia to sleep lmao

[@Magy-zm6mx]

Next video should be “were therizinosaurus claws strong enough to fight?”

[@꽃학교-1]

The claws aren't used for anything, they're just there...

[@伊斯塔與艾蕾修卡都是]

I really like the depiction of Pachys in Prehistoric Planet,in which I believe that their behaviors are portrayed in a way that allude most if not all the hypothesis. 1.We could see Pachys using their heads to ram down bushes and branches to eat bugs. 2.When two male Pachycephalosaurus started to have a conflict,they first used their heads as intimidation display. 3. At the first half of the fight,they used their heads to butt their oppoents' body. It wasn't until the second half that the alpha male started to actually charge headfirst to its younger challenger.

[@orionmclaughlin5680]

One time I heard someone say that their head dome was a brain case and that they were super intelligent, but if it was a brain case, it would be completely hollow, and it isn't. Also they have no other adaptations for advanced intelligence

[@langustajableczna]

Imagine if they were very intelligent and survived.. One can dream

[@theleaderturtle]

Paleologists now think pachycephalosaurids may have been kickers instead of just head-butters recently.

[@matroar5829]

Using pinkfong you got me dead 💀

[@Grand_History]

Jack Horner dipped is toes is so many aspects of dinosaur paleontology, you can’t blame him for getting a few things wrong. He’s a brilliant man, but he’s a contrarian. I’ve met him, and worked with his former student Denver Fowler, and his influence is strong. I’d say it’s better to have people that question everything than an echo chamber of untested ideas

[@petarmilich8684]

Horner isn’t brilliant, he’s just lucky. And he’s creepy.

[@Grand_History]

@@petarmilich8684 You wouldnt say that if you were at all familiar with his work. the more you indulge in the world of paleo, the more you realize most paleontologists are fucking lazy. they dont do any field work, they dont do any research, and they dont try to teach the next generation of students. all they care about is fame and money. Hell, one of the most famous ones right now, Steve Brusette, falsified data in a paper and has scarcely done any research outside of it. Jack Horner however spent his career constantly proposing ideas, trying things that museums weren't willing to, attempting to apply better logic to the science, spent an incredible amount of time actually digging, founded multiple museums (including a new one that will be opening in Orange County), and paid it all forward by teaching hundreds of students, many of which are now accomplished paleontologists. the man is 78 and he still drives across the country directing field crews. Anyone who accomplishes a tenth of what he has can be considered a great paleontologist.

[@prixe12]

​@@Grand_History still dated a 17 year old tho

[@Grand_History]

@@prixe12 An 18 year old. Is it weird? Definitely. Illegal? No. From what I’ve heard she was simply a fan girl, he was a flattered old man, and it didn’t last very long.

[@joshuaW5621]

Those domes must be pretty thick and hard if they were fit for combat.

[@kennethsatria6607]

I remember a paleontologist saying its several inches thick

[@Jane-oz7pp]

*glances at chimp hands* haha yea, I'm sure glad things that aren't huge and brick like aren't good for combat

[@feuerling]

​@@Jane-oz7pp hands don't have a super squishy brain inside the

[@prixe12]

​@@feuerling but they have super fragile bones

[@metriacantho]

no way there is so little pachy footage he had to use pink fong footage wat

[@keks_krieger44]

i do would like to believe that pachy also would rammed into termite/ant hills to feast on the insects for that protein

[@roukaryuroukaryu2334]

Perhaps even small trees as well to knock down fruit?

[@keks_krieger44]

@@roukaryuroukaryu2334 that depends if it would be with in their kbowedge to do so really but i think this would be a very niche thing to A nutricious and B being unlikely considering that flowers/fruits appeared around middle to late cretaceous

[@Redspiny2]

1:21 what is the current consensus on Dakotaraptor’s validity? Last I heard it was still valid

[@lukehowell5572]

Last I heard, is that it's dubious. Because the paper initially describing Dakotaraptor also included some turtle bones in the reconstruction. So while there probably was a large dromaeosaur in Late Cretaceous North America, it might need to be redescribed, and given a new name. 😄

[@orionmclaughlin5680]

More than just Turtle bones. Dakotaraptor does have some dromaeosaurid bones, but there might also be some Tyrannosaurid and Therizinosaurid bones

[@michaeldeak5727]

​@@orionmclaughlin5680there are no therizinosaurids in Hell Creek, and the claw of Dakotaraptor is very different from those of tyrannosaurids.

[@orionmclaughlin5680]

@@michaeldeak5727 there is the small possibility of an unnamed Therizinosaurid in Hell Creek, but this is not confirmed

[@michaeldeak5727]

@@orionmclaughlin5680 That said, the claims that the rest of Dakotaraptor are chimeric aside from the misidentified furcula should be taken with a grain of salt.

[@aaleven4728]

Speaking of, why are there so many older Pachy depictions (specially in books) where they are absolutely gigantic? Like T. rex sized how did it happen

[@plfaproductions]

lack of reserch, still happens today

[@TrueSavage555]

I fell for that too when I was younger.

[@sergiubleoca9917]

Lack of fossil material lead to size estimates being based on other ornithopods like hadrosaurs, not knowing that pachys have disproportionally larger heads compared to them.

[@victorsztorc511]

Red raptor writes should do a paleo myths jack Horner special on everything jack Horner has ever done for his arguments and counter arguments on dinosaurs and other prehistoric animals

[@petarmilich8684]

Yes.

[@tyrannotherium7873]

Don't trust Jack Horner he even said that ceratopsians are fragile as well Like he said if a t.rex would fall over it with lan on top of the triceratops, which is ridiculously stupid

[@therosrex5488]

Hi. I'm a paleontologist that studies Pachys and bone resorption, and I don't think they butted heads. I think you may have referenced some of my work. I'm happy to speak with you more if you'd like. I have some research that I could send you!! :) stay safe & hydrated.

[@ChrimiKat]

why not spread some of your wisdom here in the comments aswell? there is more evidence for them butting head than not

[@horse14t]

I am also curious as to why you think Pachys didn't butt heads.

[@amn2760]

​@@horse14tYeah why would even pachys evolve head domes in the first place

[@michaelwoller6450]

Bro if you actually do research on this just drop some citations

[@kevinnorwood8782]

I’m still mainly convinced Dracorex is its own species, for starters. Secondly, it was actually the way Dracorex was depicted in the documentary Bizarre Dinosaurs (which you’ve covered in your Paleo Accuracy series) that had me convinced for the longest time how Pachycephalosaurs actually used their heads in combat. They would hold/press their heads against each other’s, and wrestle with them until one of the combatants gets a headache and gives up. However, a paleontology-based KZbin channel called The Skeleton Crew responded to that theory when I brought it up in one of their videos. They said that theory might be plausible for the flat-headed Pachycephalosaurs, but it wouldn’t really work for the dome-headed ones, and they pointed me to the Pachy fight scene from Prehistoric Planet. After watching that fight, I’m now convinced that THAT is the most accurate depiction of inter-species combat between Pachycephalosaurus and its relatives.

[@kevinnorwood8782]

Edit: I spoke wrong. I meant to write INTRAspecific combat, not INTER-specific combat. I keep getting those two terms mixed up for some reason.

[@JosephGlasbrenner]

Video idea: Was Palaeloaxodon Namadicus truly the largest land mammal?

[@dinojack5567]

it was either Palaeoloxodon or Paraceratherium

[@amn2760]

Oh cmon Paraceratherium weighed 17 tons while Paleoloxodon is 5 tons heavier

[@JosephGlasbrenner]

@@amn2760 it is still up for debate. Some people say that 22 tons is unreliable. I would say that it is possible,just that it didn’t get that big on average

[@HobGungan]

Something I noticed is that a lot of times the best evidence for a long-standing assumption about Dinosaurs gets publically released *after* Horner publically disagrees with it. I'd give Horner credit if I thought for a second he was doing it on purpose to promote thorough research instead if, y'know, just being an annoying contrarian.

[@MBRSims]

That clip from Sharkboy & Lava Girl made me laugh so much. I too would like to send Jack Horner to the Principal's office and have him expelled. Please use that clip more often

[@ryonhatcher4561]

There's a particular Paleo Myth that I am very much curious about: Did Abelisaurids (like Carnotaurus and Majungasaurus) use their itty bitty arms for courtship dances, like in Prehistoric Planet. Methinks that Paleo Myth is also a perfection, but like the Pachy's robust skull, there are some skeptics.

[@matthewatkin5331]

Thanks for making this video. Until now I thought the Horner theory was right, so I appreciate you setting me right.

[@dagoodboy6424]

I like to think a cornered or angry pachy would bash any dino. Although when bigger dinos came theyd prob run away.

[@FueledbyCookiesProductions]

Makes me wish that Pachycephalosaurus appeared in 65. Imagine a scene with that dinosaur in it!

[@cintronproductions9430]

Unfortunately that movie hates herbivores. And even if it did appear it would have probably been a slobbering, aggressive, unrecognizable beast and it would have gotten a few seconds of screentime before being mowed down by Ankylo Ren's gun.

[@FueledbyCookiesProductions]

@@cintronproductions9430 You're not wrong

[@Krona-fb4dn]

I beg, PLEASE cover the myth that theropods have "septic bites" It's one of the worst that I will hear consistently and is still mentioned by some in dinosaur circles.

[@jeffreygao3956]

I did not expect to find this the first Perfection. Then again, these dinosaurs are little Bighorns!

[@MysticMindAnalysis]

There is one potential avenue of skepticism over this myth that I think is worth addressing. Wouldn't the point of contact for the dome-heads be a small surface area, making it more likely to glance off when headbutting? The dome could have been better used for flank attacks on the broadside. Thoughts?

[@plfaproductions]

no.... polar bears aren't hydrodinamic yet they live 99% on water, if modern day animals aren't the absolute ideal for a task why would dinosaurs be? also that's not how bones grow and more material = more place for the impact to be distributed, this adaptation was as useful as a medival armor against a medieval sword

[@martimvieira806]

Now we need to know if Discokeryx do the same 🤨

[@FisherFish420]

Next video: can a pachy skull protect against a bullet

[@Lalaloopsies_United]

Likely

[@jeffreygao3956]

Who wants to find out?

[@ostracostio64]

Will you be reviewing last day of the dinosaurs?

[@filipporaule4299]

another paleo myth: are all ichthyosaurs only specialized on eating small preys?

[@prestonanimates7971]

Excited to get into the video! Just curious, will you ever take a look at Prehistoric Planet season 2 to do an accuracy review?

[@redraptorwrites6778]

Maybe in the not too distant future

[@plfaproductions]

@@redraptorwrites6778 uhhhh

[@LibertarianTerriermon]

Damn if he makes a Paleo myth video on the Validity of the Dakotarapor i have a strong feeling That the comment section will go crazy.

[@Sw20t]

that so call "Ankylosaurs" you showed in the beginning is actually an Anodontosaurus

[@mariedufore8795]

Pachycephalosaurus is very cool

[@spacegojiraxz-1715]

1:22 Dakotaraptor has not been confirmed to be invalid

[@tomerorlevi1673]

Petition for the next video to be about diplodocus tale strength (yes I know it's not string enough to whip predators but I want what they did use it for) if YOU want this like it so it will be popular and also comment *BONK* because why not

[@xmasfoxy7598]

from what I'm hearing nanotyrannus is still real until we find a tyrannosaurus juvie/adolescent around same size of nanotyrannus to prove other whys

[@takenname8053]

So this isn't a myth it's a fact!

[@SmashBrosAssemble]

Yes they did. Next question please.

[@kaiju115]

Other paleomyth, Sabertooth Cats outcompeted the Terror Birds.

[@MC_Plush_Films.2005]

Wait, a second Dakota Raptors not valid anymore?

[@Dracovenatrix]

Its dubious not invalid but its validity is in question

[@Frogboyaidan]

More Pachy

[@CassidyCamerons143]

Wait I am confused, Its Dakotaraptor invalid? Being possibly synonymized with Acheroraptor? I do have one idea: Did Triceratops charge?

[@SnubbyDaArtist]

i like dakotaraptor, dunno if it’s a real species anymore since i’m confused

[@tobiasedwards2643]

Might as well do a three peat with the Pachycephalosaurs by talking about whether or not they were omnivorous or not.

[@LightBringer127_dragonart]

Did T rex have feathers?

[@kornchaiwongkiat7218]

Now that you have mentioned it, make a video on dakotaraptor

[@eybaza6018]

The omnivore hypothesis is probably bogus.Many herbivores have seemingly out-of-place teeth like camels,hippos etc.

[@matyaskassay4346]

both camels and hippos use their front teeth to fight, so it's not like there's no specific purpose for those seemingly out of place teeth. But you can't apply the same explanation to pachy teeth.

[@eybaza6018]

@@matyaskassay4346 Without concrete evidence yes,but that seems to be the most common use for ''odd teeth'' among herbivores

[@matyaskassay4346]

@@eybaza6018 yeah, and that's probably the case for things like heterodontosaurus, but come on... pachy's teeth are clearly useless for fighting. Heck, if they wanted to bite something they already have a sharp beak, plus it's not like they don't already have a much more obvious tool for agnostic behavior.

[@eybaza6018]

@@matyaskassay4346 Just because they have one weapon doesn't mean they can't use other means for combat

[@matyaskassay4346]

@@eybaza6018 okay now you made me look up pachy skulls and I gotta say, those teeth are much bigger than I remembered. I still find it unlikely that a headbutting animal would evolve another weapon just for intraspecific combat, but who knows, you might be onto something.

[@adamtruong1759]

Wait, what happened to Dakotaraptor?

[@Lalaloopsies_United]

It’s up for debate whether it’s a valid species or not

[@redraptorwrites6778]

Some paleontologists consider the specimen to be a chimera, an amalgamation of different bones from different animals.

[@JoseCoello-xq8jt]

Where do you stream? and can you do live reactions to paleomedia?

[@Marcin9200]

Since you already made a joke about dakotaraptor, what about a video on it?

[@Dodo-x3g]

By the way who is the person saying “this episode is brought by contributions from viewers like you.

[@jesusmejia79]

0:40 styiglomch is it own species

[@user-H_m]

You need to make one of these about ornithiscian cheeks!!!

[@proudlywild1491]

2 hours ago dang! But I feel like this was so obvious the idea to me that anybody disagrees is wild to me

[@dudotolivier6363]

Dakotaraptor is actually not a problem. It truly existed. It's about ig it was a large raptor or another kind of theropods we do not know for sure. But definitively a predator.

[@matyaskassay4346]

ooor it might be a turtle

[@dudotolivier6363]

@@matyaskassay4346 Isn't the remain belonging to a theropods ? But I admit, it is likely that the remain or composed of an unknown animal (Dakotaraptor) and another animal we already know from the formation. If the targeted remains which are found to be from another animal, so these would to be excluded from the rest and the rest being the soler emains we know of Dakatarptor. Admit, if this animal end up being a turtle, it would be very fun that we unvolontarily named as turtle with the term -raptor we it XD !

[@pierre-samuelroux9364]

Other paleomyth hadrosaurs are defenceless

[@animinebro]

Did Velociraptor is very smart?

[@Crakinator]

There’s just no way their heads looked like THAT and weren’t used to bash into things

[@NLEcoppa1]

Do one on mammals please

[@tigris115]

6:21 It's pronounced Dye-ker Afrikaans is weird

[@SamuRhino2023]

2 views in 48 seconds, tsk tsk tsk

[@Sir_Coconut]

Video idea: Did spiosaurus (or other dinosaurs) have a sail or a hump?

[@reginaldodonoghue9253]

Overcorrecting awesomebros and um actuallyism are problems that need to be called out.

[@hcollins9941]

Duiker is pronounced Die-Ker

[@petarmilich8684]

Someone needs to tell Jack Horner to shut up.

[@petarmilich8684]

@octolia2024both him and this one.

[@Intrusion498]

Pachycephalosaurus' head is as thicc as a latina

[@jeffreygao3956]

What?

[@explodingdynamite7319]

What?!

[@Doki_Doki_is_peak]

💀

[@azaanimations319]

😐

[@cryoking5025]

Video idea: Did dinosaurs have sexual dimorphism(size, coloration, etc…)?

[@plfaproductions]

"did dinosaurs exist?!?!?!?!" LOL

[@bv5998]

Did dinosor drink water?

[@Theriandspinofan001]

Next one: Are Hadrosaurs fodder?

[@ivangreat4885]

no, but some did run rather than fight, but generally in the paleo community if you don't fight your bad, which idiotic.

[@plfaproductions]

@@ivangreat4885 yeah most atempts of predation fail, but I guess seeing a trex being clowned by herbies 37 times before the big t rex moment woudn't be entertaining in any media that isn't comedic