Renault's Biggest Mistake? The Avantime Was So Unpopular It Bankrupted A Company - But Was It Bad?

Today I'm driving one of those weird automotive dead ends - the Renault Avantime. Conceived in a bout of madness and cheap wine, the Avantime is all at once a coupe, MPV and hatchback - but it was one step too weird for many - resulting in the demise of Matra, who built it.
Today, I drive it.
#Renault #Avantime
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[@simonn2045]

True fact of my life: I have seen more Ferrari 458s then Avantimes

[@simonn2045]

@Alexander TM-290 you haven't lived! The dark red is very fetching

[@805NAVE]

I’ve seen more La Ferrari’s / 918s/ Bugatti’s / SSC tuataras than I’ve seen Avantimes!

[@Whiponized]

Neva seen one broski g stat

[@meep-vm5tc]

Fun fact: I have seen more koenigseggs than avantimes

[@Whiponized]

@@meep-vm5tc fun fact I’ve seen more chirons than avantimes

[@DJEylisium]

F4RT engine. SERIOUSLY Renault did that on purpose.

[@Alexandru-T.]

Good engine though.

[@Jeerven]

Not a better name than Peugeot HDi FAP engine tho.

[@MrRohanThomas]

@@Alexandru-T. lol

[@mrRufffnTumble]

@@Jeerven I respectfully disagree. F4RT is a timeless classic.

[@RockyFoxxowo]

@@Jeerven hopefully they don't make a joint engine

[@christianhenderson3725]

Having had a V6 for 3 years and 60k miles I can add the following- Epic car, a superb Grand Routier which can cruise quietly, comfortably and effortlessly at three figure speeds, the most comfortable seats ever ( especially the back! ) can fit a double mattress flat in the back with ease, a sod to work on, but never failed to raise a smile. Kids love it - especially the Big Air button! Matra used the Avantime body panels as a technology prover for their composite technology- it is ridiculously over engineered and strong. Renault screwed Matra over as the dealerships were not allowed to discount the Avantime, but aggressively sold the Vel Satis as the dealers got better margins on the saloons which were very similar.

[@marcbegine]

Sorry Jay, it's Avantime like "time in English" - meaning before it's time or in advance of it's time!!! But still well done!

[@DraGSLight]

hahaha I was watching it like AVANTAHYM ! and then saw your comment

[@walterrudich2175]

Do you mean the pronunciation? He did it correctly.

[@marcbegine]

@@walterrudich2175 Yes it means time like time in english (I am french speaking and Renault wanted desperately to name this car in part french "avant" and part english "time" in one word avantime meaning ahead of it's time, so modern).

[@DraGSLight]

@@walterrudich2175 pas du tout

[@Dan.Chaytor]

C’est la vie, c’est la guerre, c’est la pomme de terre 😬

[@adrienaimon4075]

French guy here : we actually say Avantime with the "english" prononciation, like it is the fusion of Avant (french for "Before") and Time.

[@JayEmmOnCars]

That is weird

[@adrienaimon4075]

@@JayEmmOnCars "weird" is accurate to define this French piece of art 😅 By the way : I really love your YT channel. I have been following you for 2 years now, and it is still a pleasure to watch your videos. Please, keep up the good work !

[@JayEmmOnCars]

@@adrienaimon4075 thanks! I plan to

[@MasterMalrubius]

Wee wee!

[@whisperluxe]

Yep, Avantime is a portmanteau- official pronunciation is french pronunciation of ‘Avant’ and English of ‘time’.

[@trippydrew8492]

I've always had a soft spot for these since I saw it on Top Gear. I kind of see it as the Fiat Multipla's bigger, better looking cousin lol

[@johnmandragon4830]

I always really liked these too. They are totally bonkers but I think they are great. I also have a weird thing about the Citroen C6.

[@trippydrew8492]

@@johnmandragon4830 Yes! The one with the curved rear screen! I'm not a huge fan of the front of them but it has a mighty fine rear end!!

[@thomasfrank280]

Hope he does one of those. Preferably an early one.

[@freddieparrydrums]

@@johnmandragon4830 saw one a day ago next to an Avantime lol. Very rare coincidence

[@singinglyours]

Hi Jay, thanks for your appreciation of this weird and fantastic car. I have been the happy owner of one for the last 17 years.

[@gwolks1008]

That's one awesome frikkin vehicle. Damn! Always loved it. I loved that they used it in Children of Men as a futuristic car. Says a lot.

[@Nathan.Guthrie]

My dad almost got one of these back when it was new, me being a toddler and my Mum managed to persuade him not to and buy a V6 Signum... Looking back now the Avantime was soo much more interesting.

[@ThrottleBody]

A Signum....I would have died 😭

[@motorpolitan8884]

The Signum is one of the few cars ever to be considered a mid-size hatchback. The only other example I can think of is the Malibu Maxx. This is interesting because usually, when midsize saloons get a hatchback, they turn into estates. But Opel somehow styled the Signum in a way that still convinced people it's a hatchback, not an estate. Of course, it's not as interesting as the Avantime but it has its own quirks and originality.

[@autoexpression3312]

Is it faster than a mitsubishi lancer evolution?

[@theartco5386]

No.

[@JayEmmOnCars]

It's faster than my mate's Evo. But so is walking

[@BlackStar2161]

If you drop it from a crane, it'll accelerate at 1 G - don't think the Evo can top that.

[@Lukeywoodsey]

"speed is not what the Avontine is about" *Top Gear turns it into the track car*

[@bjarneanmarkrud8187]

Biggest problem with the Avantime is the lack of legroom in the back. its got a really high floor, and you cant put your feet underneath the front seats. real odd flaw for such a big "Coupe"

[@DealerD8vE]

Very true and very annoying. Removing the carpet/flooring reveals a pretty crude brace bar that must've added at the last minute to improve side impact protection - pillarless cabin and all that. Hasn't stopped me from owning three V6's. Keep the rears for kids or in-laws. When the occupied with the latter, drop the side windows at speed to enjoy the majestic feeling up front and the mayhem behind!

[@MP_pov]

Now you’re talking! I remember when these came out, always thought they were really interesting and would certainly congratulate the designers for their bravery. Great video.

[@marvinwilson34]

Almost bought one of these at the motor show when they came out, just couldn't afford one ,about six years later a a car auction in the north of England ,one turned up in the none runner section, I got it for £800 ,I hadn't looked at it prior to the sale anyway it needed a engine due to flood damage, fixed it drove it for years, sold it for what it owed me, totally regret selling it, a reel conversation piece, it made everyone smile who noticed it, it was also metallic blue great car.

[@TheShinyShow]

Avonteem? Said nobody ever. I did like when they cut the roof off an Espace. The Avantime at least looks a bit interesting.

[@walterrudich2175]

He pronounced it correctly

[@ndsd04]

I owned one for 3 years and it was great. Every journey was a pleasure, softly sprung and very comfortable. My kids loved it and I wish I still had it. Surprisingly it never went wrong and with the roof open and the windows all down it looked great and always attracted interest. Also quite practical. I put it on eBay to sell and I honestly sold it within minutes.

[@nickturner2813]

7:06 *That* was a Triumph Herald 13/60 convertible.

[@daniluvsuall]

I am *obsessed* with these. I always wanted one, they're so rare and odd now.

[@aydenwalls7542]

You can get these for around £3k-£15k, future classic in the making i think

[@YounesLayachi]

AvanTEEM ??? why It's avant + time (before time) Edit : I don't know for sure it's just what I grew up thinking (and maybe I heard a couple french motorjournalists or renault staff ?) Oh yeah, look at those rear lights in the shape of hourglasses

[@Kaisuke971]

It is avant-Time, trust me i’m french

[@YounesLayachi]

@@Kaisuke971 thanks

[@octane_tim]

I can confirm, Avant-Time and I really don't understand why people would say "avanteem" or even sometime "avanteen" ?

[@imnotamechanic3491]

I always call it Avantime (and it's my car), but I believe the French pronounciation of time is 'teem', and so I have seen people call it the 'av-on-teem'. See my channel for my review on the car where it's pronounced 'Avan-time'.

[@octane_tim]

I’m french and we say Time 🙂

[@DutchBane]

Avanteem, just like the es-pache, claio and mega-knee

[@BennyVermeulen]

Twangoo for the win!

[@PriestOfAuril]

@9:05 what an absolute burk in the black car -_- litterally defines the standard of driving in the UK these days

[@bicyclist2]

Had Renault brought it to the US they would have sold thousands of them. If I had the money I know I would have bought one. I love the Top Gear episode where they pimped one out. I love the fact that its a manual transmission. None of the minivans or SUV's available in the US have that option. Thank you.

[@TofumanFC3S]

Yes literally thousands! Like 2000 or maybe even 3000

[@GoldenCroc]

@@TofumanFC3S Yepp, more like hundreds, if that. Hard to imagine a worse car for American sensibilities, no matter how good it might be.

[@midnightlexicon]

Stunning scenery. The vid reminds me of the family trip to the adirondack mountains.

[@theMaster...]

Remember the diabolical Renault Vel Satis? It was a replacement for the awesome Renault Safrane. What were they thinking?

[@pasta9899]

👏👏 One of my all time favorites! Also, I'd be delighted to see something like a Vel Satis or heck even an Espace/Grand Espace some time soon. Especially if it would be 3.5 V6, shared with 350Z.

[@lucian6395]

I have thought in the past, build a sleeper vel satis or avantime using aftermarket turbo kits etc

[@aaryeshg.6526]

The Espace had a relative too, the Nissan Quest. And yes it has the same engine.

[@pasta9899]

@@lucian6395 hm yeah.. I would keep Avantime as stock and then just keep it in great condition because it's value is already going way up. And whilst Vel Satis could also be a future classic, it's still dirt cheap, so I would play with Vel Satis.

[@pasta9899]

@@aaryeshg.6526 aah true! That weird thing that was sold in US. Yeah i'm sure it was also a very decent car

[@alexfrost8561]

I would love to see a 3.5v6 espaces review

[@badtothebone9426]

It was a Triumph 13/60 convertible. The final version of the Herald with styling clues from the Vitesse.

[@nikolaslarson6891]

They are pretty much sought after these days. I find them very cool, marvelously quirky. Great video.

[@floriskuipers4925]

I stop dead in my tracks every time I see one. Would LOVE to drive one some day, although I'm afraid I'll never get the chance.

[@reginaldbowls7180]

WOW !! Thanks Jay, I've never even heard of this Renault. It's incredible!!!

[@jimmyhallatt]

Think I have only ever seen 1 of these on the road !! Love it!

[@alansharp1528]

thanks for a great review of an unusual car i have always admired. very french.

[@marijnmolenaar2848]

My neighbour has one of these, in purple. Before watching this video, I had no idea what the hell it was. After watching this, I have even more questions

[@farmergeddon7527]

I believe it's pronounced Avant (as with a French accent) and Time (as with an English accent).

[@wardeadfr]

to be fair, in France we pronounced it quite wierdly :p some tells it "avant"(in french) and "time"(in english) some tells it "aven"(in whatever) and "time"(in english) at the begining of the model, the press told it "aftertime" because it was very very late

[@Fc-cb3tn]

*Renault back when they made the Avantime* Renault execs: what car do you think we should make? Renault designers: YES

[@benistingray6097]

4:10 Is it just me or is it probably a good idea the kids cant reach the sun roof?

[@derin111]

Just discovered (and subscribed to this) channel today. It’s great....it’s almost like a Top Gear for people who ARE actually interested in cars!

[@mpersad]

Great review of this quirky car. I wanted one as a company vehicle back in 2002 but my lowly position meant that no MPV's were available! Ended up with a Nissan Primera which was one of the best cars I have ever driven.

[@Nikko40691]

Jeremy, Richard and James also all agreed on liking the Legacy.

[@gepwxaqdfsidsesg1548]

"he hates owning cars that other people have"; I really must get my Peugeot 604 back on the road.

[@nickdoughty518]

Love these cars. We are twinned with Romorantin where the Matra factory was - long gone of course. But the Matra museum is awesome and well worth a visit.

[@MilitaryHistory2011]

I Want one! Ironically looks mostly more futuristic than a lot of todays modern hybrids

[@Graham_Langley]

Only 400 in the UK would explain why I've only seen one on the road, not long after its launch.

[@timpauwels3734]

I had a driving theory instructor in Belgium who would arrive to lessons in an Avantime. Other than that, he was a biker.

[@jaap5398]

This car was the star in Children of Men

[@LLConscience]

fun fact the one in the film was a 4 door that was never produced

[@DealerD8vE]

@@LLConscience I think it's just a movie hack

[@daveyboiyeah]

Best car you've had on the channel. I've a Vel Satis if you'd like drive that at some point. Another wonderful quirky Renault from that era.

[@JayEmmOnCars]

Absolutely! Lots of requests for that in the comments here unsurprisingly. Drop me an email on [e-mail]

[@TheCarGuysTV]

I always fancied owning one of these, and came close to going for it (for no apparent reason). The ones for sale all appeared to be in Scotland for some reason.

[@pointiscrap]

One of the main Avantime restoration boys lives up in Scotland

[@Megaloryan]

I remember seeing one down the street from me as a kid, never paid it much attention but I never realised how unusually rare it was. I didn't know they had V6 engines, that's cool.

[@paultaylor9652]

Lovely Jubbly video, I LOVE FRENCH CARS. There it is, I've said it now.

[@Jeerven]

My dad owns a Avantime but with the Automatic V6 and full dark interior, I love it more than my Mégane 225 cup.

[@sillwuka]

Loved the Avantime and the Vel Satis

[@bigginhillant]

i have the F4RT engine in my renault megane r26r which was the fastest hot hatch around the nurburgring in 2009 and puts lots of super cars to shame on track super capable engine

[@joshgribben4466]

It is absolutely bonkers seeing you driving a road on i know like the back ive my hand as its only 10-20 miles from me 😧

[@wardeadfr]

just a comment about the doors, this weird mecanism was a pain to design but was made necessary for being able to have a decent opening without taking to much space in width. the doors are also very heavy. Avantime is considered to be one of the most recent collectible car in France, because as it was a sales failure, it was rare even just after the end of the model. every version is considered even if the diesel version has less love.

[@mudskipper0075]

That door mechanism is genius really clever stuff ,being French it probably lasted 15 minutes but clever none the less...👍

[@gregmiller2884]

Great video, I do like the avantime, hope you enjoyed driving through Milton of campsie, where I'm from through lennoxtown up the crow Road through to Fintry. Weird seeing places you know in a youtube video.

[@AnarchistMetalhead]

when i was a school kid someone living a few houses from me had one, and it was the coolest car around blue like the one in the video, black leather interior, seemed really comfortable occasionally tried to convince my mother to get one too, but understood she wouldn"t get such a big car with so little space behind the front row

[@johnbradshaw5900]

This one of those very, very rare things - a car that was genuinely different and which did its own thing rather than just being benchmarked to the point of being the same as any number of alternatives. This was bonkers, but I admired and respected Renault for having the nerve to make it, so much more interesting than being just another identifit mini-me clone of any number of other cars.

[@anthony_stevens]

Super underrated car this, its brilliant I think

[@stephenhill2404]

I love this car. Back in the day, I had three small kids so had to content myself with the Mark III Grand Espace 3.0l automatic which was also a fantastic car and surprisingly reliable. I had it from new (year 2000) till 2012. Fuel consumption was high when you floored it though.

[@marcusFZ6]

Thumbs up only because you're driving the roads that I grew up on. Best roads ever for driving and cycling on. Certainly a rare old beast and classic french quirkiness.

[@tetchuma]

I’ve always wanted to see one of these up close. Not likely in Dallas though. They would have sold a ton of those in the states.

[@jameswingrove7421]

I’ve always liked the Vel Satis. And the Safrane.

[@martinboulden3540]

Someone I know in Hampshire ran 15 of these as company cars back in the day for their IT company ! Cool cars I think !

[@martinboulden3540]

@tacfoley 9 to run, 6 for spares !

[@Mouse2113]

Seen one sitting outside Rentec in Edinburgh a few weeks ago. Lovely thing

[@mustpaike]

It would be interesting to see the Avantime contrasted with one of those huge American convertibles from the 1960s or 70s. The Eldorado, the Deville, 225, etc. You know, 6 proper seats and a boot to actually fit stuff.

[@keirbourne4589]

Love these so much. Super cool.

[@chucku00]

Donut Media : _E S P A C H É_ JayEmm : Hold my _A V A N T E E M_

[@marktelford2160]

Thanks for doing something different. Sure, not my type of car but an interesting review on an unusual car.

[@joshuaminke6629]

i remember when top gear modded one of these, to try and beat an evo around the track, it didn't do too bad, it was the v6 as well

[@R-Tap]

Super rare, super cool. I see an AT once every 3 years in my local shopping centre. I have been tempted to leave a "I want you" note under the windscreen wiper. Correct colour. What was that other weird Renault luxury SUV thing that came out at the same time? Vel something or other. 😂

[@Graham_Langley]

Vel Satis, which wasn't an SUV but an 'executive car'.

[@adrianchell]

I'm a bit like the owner in that I love quirky, unusual cars but sadly can't indulge my passion as I would like - and I was really smitten with the Avantime when they came out. Like its name, it was ahead of its time in many ways. Imagine the sort of reception it would get if it was launched now with an electric powertrain.

[@fidelcastro9579]

I’ve seen these parked up in Paris side streets. They look cool as anything. Rubbish in the UK though.

[@DomWayne]

The interior space/design is so underrated.

[@davidvandord]

I remember these liked them when they came out and still like them now

[@davidclayton4396]

Such a shame Matra died after this ,such an innovative company I had a Matra murena for years loved the three abreast seats 'engine sounded like spanners in a washing machine but it was bullet proof and no rust as they pioneered galvanising ,happy days.

[@MrZaragon62]

I always liked these and so very nearly bought one - but right at the last second the salesman presented me with a deal on an espace that I would have been mad to refuse. How I wish I'd had the Aventime!

[@805NAVE]

I remeber this car in Gran Turismo 5 lol. I never bought it cuz it looked like a mini van

[@kylemadrid4664]

This was ahead of its time. The Range Rover Evoque 3-door is that niche lifestyle category car.

[@SeanRosairo]

I love this weird little car. I wish I could import one of these to Canada, the lack of a B Pillar is fascinating. I also remember the Top Gear episode and loving this car's design

[@timelwell7002]

Merci beaucoup por la critique. La voiture c'est magnifique. Un reve. Mais qu'est que tu penses de le Vel Satis, Jay?

[@aidan.w.carolan]

Another great video James. Very interesting car as usual

[@JayEmmOnCars]

I try! Glad you enjoyed it

[@ThexMJT]

When Renault were about to release these to the UK parents got an invite to drive this and the Velsatis, parents loved them loads of fun in their opinion but just didnt feet our needs at the time.

[@homosexualpanic]

When I go to France and need to know the time: "Quelle Teem sil voo plats"

[@dj_paultuk7052]

I used to have a V6 one of these, and also two Laguna seriesII cars again with the L7X 3.0 V6 24v VVT engine. Same engine as per the 1st gen Clio V6. Cracking unit and they do trundle along quite nicely !.

[@richardharrold9736]

That PSA V6 is a HUGE lump for 3 litres... the deck height and bore spacing are enormous for such modest displacement. I actually worked out that you could sleeve the block to 106mm bore and stroke it to 100mm (using a lower compression height piston to give adequate rod length), yielding 5.3 litres (5295cc)...

[@dj_paultuk7052]

@@richardharrold9736 Sadly you cannot get any support for that engine now. Peugeot, Citroen, and Renault and removed all parts for it. Cannot even get basic gaskets. So i scrapped our 2 Laguna II's.

[@richardharrold9736]

@@dj_paultuk7052 you should just have got some custom gaskets made. Scrapping good cars for want of parts is idiotic.

[@colinwatson4172]

Av-on-teen. Well I've never heard it called that before. Still looks wrong today which is what makes it great. The days when Renault had balls.

[@timd6671]

I've always thought it looked pretty cool.

[@8359s]

Can't wait for 968 hope it's a good example not with old suspension components.

[@TechItOut]

Everyone talks about the Aventime but no-one seems to mention the Vel Satis which was even better.

[@christianhenderson3725]

It may have been technologically better, but it didn't have the visual drama- the Avantime was Haute-Couture and the Vel Satis was a good pair of beige trousers...

[@HG504X]

Still remember this car from Top Gear. When they had to make it as fast an Evo 10.

[@MrPigeonaids]

I dont usually like french cars, but damn.. this is seriously cool. damn

[@SabotsLibres]

I won't mention the name - others have done so already - but it was not simply the lack of Avantime sales that 'bankrupted' Matra. Part of Matra (the aerospace division) had already been merged with Aérospatiale in 1998 becoming EADS / Airbus a while later. This clearly reduced the financial clout of the remaining car division which had had continued success thanks to the Espace. The Avantime was in fact an addition, although proposal and development, like the original Espace, was solely by Matra. The end of production of the Avantime obviously did not help but should on its own not have been sufficient to bankrupt Matra, however, Renault stopped making plastic Espaces in 2002, a year into Avantime production. The 4th generation model was metal bodied and, since Matra's speciality was plastic, it was built by Renault in their own factory at Sandouville. There was thus nothing more for Matra to produce, their own beautiful Bagheera having gone out of production in 1980 and its Simca (Talbot) successor, the Murena, only lasting until 1983. Matra was was bought by Pininfarina SA shortly after. The door mechanism reputedly took two years to perfect. (Triumph Herald convertible)

[@ozzierabbit587]

Way back when I owned a Renault Encore (purchased new), which a popular automobile writer referred to as "desperation merchandise even when new", a Renault mechanic characterised the typical car as being built starting from home plate and then outwards, while Renaults were built starting way out in left field and then back towards home plate. I suspect they may have done this simply out of a French disdain for doing things like everyone else.

[@Nord_Mann]

An icon of a car. Iconic failure 😬

[@aaronmorris5403]

It was an interesting car before they toned down most of their cars. Around the same time as the vel satis and that had the v6 engine that made it into the Nissan 350z!

[@thezanzibarbarian5729]

Had a mate of mine some 20+ years ago who almost got one as a lease car. When one came for a test, almost the whole office went into the car park to look at it. He eventually got some Chrysler MPV and when that arrived, hardly anyone went to see it. He came back down and said he couldn't start it. _"Try putting your foot on the brake."_ I said. That worked 8-))...

[@eeclass20]

Currently about 40 listed Europe wide on Reezocar from €2k upto €44k(20,000km) fairly evenly split between 4cylinder V6 and 4 pot dci . Renault also released the slightly more conventional Vel Satis(3.5 V6 anyone or 3lt diesel!) in 2001 it's production run was longer in LHD form as it lasted until 2009 and sold just short of 70k but in RHD only 1250 were made between 2001 and 2005. It was even used by used as Presidential transport. So if you don't mind LHD an Avantime looks to be a bit of a bargain as €5k to €6k gets you a good one and you can a V6 manual

[@cal2022]

Interesting that I think this was the exact Avantime to be in the recent grand tour episode

[@96MasterOfPuppets96]

Engine literally called the F4RT

[@Wallygjs]

I suspect you need to find a Vel Satis as that was a pretty weird Renault in the same sort of mold as this thing! Neither would be my cup of tea though they do have a weird sort of Gallic charm.

[@thegoodnotbadorugly]

So cool. I'd love a drive in one. Or better own one!

[@stevelutwyche]

A great review of a cool quirky car which has ‘modern classic’ writ large all over it.

[@mowler8042]

i was hoping you would pull over and show us the features like the side windows.