HOW SHOULD MY GRAIN SPAWN LOOK? HD Close-ups from Filling to Colonization

Making your own grain spawn for the first time can be challenging. Proper grain preparation and moisture balance is critical and your grains appearance can change drastically before and after the pressure cooker run. In this video, I explain and show HD close-up video of how properly prepared grain should look at every step so you know what to expect when making your first batch of grain spawn.
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My grain spawn start-to-finish video:
• GRAIN SPAWN 101, Start...
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[@Jason-oy6vp]

Thank you for putting out good content. I just bought a 50lb bag of whole oats today! What an addictive hobby this turned out to be.

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

I hear that 👍

[@TheSleepingSquirtle]

You have my favorite mushroom cultivation videos. It's clear you have tons of experience and I appreciate that you are sharing that with us! Keep up the great work!

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

That means a lot to me, thx for watching 😁

[@daveeatmon4718]

Another great video! I just pc’ed my first batch of grains and had some concerns after they came out of the PC! You just cleared everything up with this very informative video and I thank you for that! Keep up the awesome work you do for the mushroom community. I pretty much adopted most of your techniques in my process and I’m not ashamed to admit it. All your processes and techniques just make good sense to me! Once again, I thank you!

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

That's awesome, I hope this grow goes well for you 👍 I try to add video ideas to my list based on common viewer questions and suggestions.

[@Gee-Wizz]

Great explanation of the process, thank you.

[@DefferJohn]

Can't believe I didn't find your channel sooner. 😁🤦🏻‍♂️ Absolutely love the tips and tricks. You're giving more useful info to newbies than 95% if other videos on this topic. Your 20 years experience really shows. Thank you so much! 🤗 Best wishes from a nobody from Scandinavia! 😄

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

Glad you found me, even if it took awhile. Hope you stick around 👊 Thanks for watching.

[@tubthumper42]

My go to channel on all things Mushroom growing. Cheers and all the best from sunny Lincolnshire UK. Andy.

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

Thank you for the kind comment, truly means a lot to me 😁

[@tubthumper42]

No worries my mate. Thanks very much to you for sharing your hard earned knowledge.👍@@RenegadeMushrooms

[@Salam_Message]

Thanks for this great video

[@TheTubejunky]

Working with bags... yay or nay? I've been getting tired of jars cleaning and LIDS! Also a good vendor for a STABLE bag with .2 micron filters. Thanks ahead of time friend!

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

I do all my grain spawn in jars, I wouldn't go to bags unless you can buy at minimum a nice sterilizer like the All-American. Cheaper PCs like the Prestos I'm rockin get hot spots that melt bags. For all my substrate bags I'm using 3T filter patch bags straight from Unicorn Bags. They are .2 micron.

[@chrisclyde4490]

I'm on my first grow and I inoculated a bunch of jars and spawn bags. I have them stored in cardboard boxes with my mylar taped around them to help trap the heat. And I put a hygrometer in there so I know the temperature and humidity. I keep the boxes closed but I opened them a couple times a day do you think that's okay?

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

A cardboard box should work fine to keep them dark and control the airflow but just make sure the box isnt sealed too tightly. You need them to breathe a little, but you could always cut some small holes in the box and stuff balls of polyfil in them. That's what I do with my plastic tubs. Also keep in mind that you don't want it to be humid in there. The bags and jars maintain their own internal humidity so you don't want them in humid external conditions or you can get mold on your filters which will ruin your spawn. In addition, watch your temperature. Mycelium generates heat as it grows so make sure your jars and bags aren't touching and your incubator box temp stays below 80 F.

[@BStott]

Hi, I'm not experienced at growing mushrooms. I've an outside looking in observation. You have compression on the grain and moisture accumulation at the bottom of the jars during and after sterilizing the grain jars. Question: Have you ever began with a quarter to half inch layer of dry vermiculite on the bottom of the jar? Pour grain. Then, sterilization? I would think the vermiculite would absorb the moisture compressed out of the grains during the P.C. process. This would keep the grain dry, while hydrating the vermiculite. This would keep moisture well distributed in the jars. No more wet areas.

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

The excess moisture is really only an issue if it persists in the jars. As I show in the video, if the grain is properly prepared, the moisture will be reabsorbed within a few days. Some people use vermiculite or dry hardwood fuel pellets in their grain jars to absorb moisture as you say, but it's unnecessary with proper grain preparation.

[@RobBanks81]

Thank you for the great video. I'm just getting started and have bought some LC online. You mentioned using 5cc of LC per jar. I'm sure you have LC in super abundance, but for people like me, can I get away with a lesser amount per jar?

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

Yes, you can use less, it will just slow down your colonization a bit. It's pretty easy to expand you syringes into jars though. I have videos on how to do it.

[@RobBanks81]

@@RenegadeMushrooms Thank you very much. I will seek out those videos.

[@dack4545]

Hold the needle away from the flame to stop carbon build up on the needle 👍

[@Rocknoob49]

I have a Lion's Mane LC->grainspawn sitting for about a week atm. It's on the cooler side at ~68F which tracks with a paper I found on LM spawn runs. I try to keep the ambient conditions medium moist. So far all i see is a few white dots of fluff, no whispy coverage of the top or anything like that. Would you shake it, at that point or just sit it out?

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

Sit it out at this point. Sounds like you're in good shape, but probably give it another week or so to fill in and then shake.

[@Rocknoob49]

@@RenegadeMushrooms thanks! Coming home from work today i found some new fluff! Gonna let it stew for a while :)

[@zenoski501]

I have a few agar wedges stuck on the lid and won’t come off no matter how much I shake. Should I leave it or should try and take them out. They aren’t touching any grain

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

I've had that happen to me too, very annoying. Only thing you can try is smacking the bottom of the jar on a rubber mat or something similar (wear gloves because of risk of jar breaking). They may never come off though. If you have other wedges touching grain I would just let it ride and shake after your mycelium takes off a bit. But if all your wedges are stuck to the lid, you may have to drop fresh wedges in.

[@michaelwelker5558]

Where do you get the rubber shower caps you use to cover your jar lids in the pressure cooker?

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

microppose.com/collections/lids-lid-tools/products/silicone-jar-lid-cover

[@michaelwelker5558]

@@RenegadeMushrooms Thanks. Our order is placed.

[@carlfranz2046]

I try to shake and turn my jars at least 3 times in 24 hours. I worry about clumping and congealing and to be honest, I enjoy shaking the jars, good exercise. But... I certainly don't mind eliminating another chore, so I'll follow your lead very carefully and see what happens. Also: why inoculate with agar instead of just LC? My agar inoculations have been somewhat hit-or-miss.

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

Just dont shake your grain jars too much, give them a chance to recover. It is good exercise though. I only shake mine once at 1/3 to 1/2 colonization. LC jars you can shake as much as you want of course. I prefer liquid culture, but sometimes cultures are only available as agar, so I just have to go with it.

[@ah1864]

During 2 hrs of sterilization time for grain spawn preperation .,do we need to restart the whole process from the beginning if 1 hr after the electricity goes off.? Or it's okay to do it for another 1 hr after power comes.? We face a lot of power cuts here in India And I have an electric autoclave 😐

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

No, you need to restart the process from the beginning unfortunately. You need to stay at 15 psi for the entire cycle.

[@samnangsam84]

Can you place the grain in the fridge to dry the outside but keep the moisture in?

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

The fridge would work as they typically act like a dehydrator. You would just want to check it every hour or so until it looks right.

[@kristinacoulthread6600]

I am in the uk and for canning the psi is 10. Would this be the same for this process do you know plz😊 also I have smaller jars the 1/2 quart size would it still be 90 mins?

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

Because you are operating at lower temperature/pressure, you need to sterilize for a longer period of time. I would go for 120 minutes at 10 psi I think for half quarts.

[@kristinacoulthread6600]

@@RenegadeMushrooms oh ok. My canner actually boiled dry just prior to the 90 minutes yesterday ut I will have a go as its an experiment for me anyway so be good to see if they still grow. Thankyou

[@TheTubejunky]

Flow hood vendor? Compact version seem convenient.

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

I built mine, but if you're looking to buy hit up midwestgrowkits.com

[@kwillington0231]

Hello! I’m using rye berries as a grain spawn but for some reason I just can’t get anything to grow I’m not really sure what’s wrong :(

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

Need more information to help you out. 1. What type of spawn containers and lids are you using? 2. How are you preparing and sterilizing the spawn? 3. How are you inoculating the sterilized spawn with your culture? 4. How long has it been since you inoculated? 5. What does your spawn look like? 6. What species are you growing?

[@Kevfactor]

What should you look at first if the spawn isn’t doing anything at all? Agar wedges and 1 cc not working. The one good grow I had worked with a G2g but out now:)

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

Gonna need some more details, but we can figure this out. Let me know: 1. What type of grain? 2. Sterilization procedure? 3. Spawn jar or bag? 4. Where did you get your culture? 5. How did you prep/hydrate your grain?

[@Kevfactor]

@@RenegadeMushrooms I’ve been working with rye and popcorn mostly. I’ve tried a few different methods before the pc. Soak a day, dry 4 hours, jar pc….recently did no soak no sim with a ratio of water seed I found online…. Popcorn I haven’t done that in a while but n my insta pot (pre presto) I cooked for 20 minutes and then cooked 3 hours. That was the only thing to ever colonize for me. Lastly ya jars. I think I’m switching to bags soon as I looks a lot quicker and I can just get more spam attempts in:)

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

@@Kevfactor Jars are the way to go if you're just starting out. Rye, wheat, and oats work pretty well. It's possible your culture is bad. If it's good, something is wrong with your prep. This video should help: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4iun4eBh9ymi5o

[@Kevfactor]

Thanks for the info. I’ll check it out. I think the lc s good as I tested on agar and it looked good. I did both agar and some fresh lc too btw in different jars. I’m probably going to look into your lid brand if I stick with jars. I’ve tried the green lids with the little mushroom filter and I never had luck with those. alsoDoes shaking too early mess it up? I have adhd so it’s hard not to mess with it . Vids are like shake the heck out of it everyday hehe

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

@@Kevfactor I don't shake jars until they are about 1/3 colonized, although technically shaking them will not cause them to stop growing unless there is underlying contamination.

[@Lipi19821]

lots of people use alcohol soaked paper to cool down needle after flame steralisation,right before use...

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

I knew I wasn't alone, but sometimes it feels that way when I get three comments in one day explaining sanitization vs. sterilization to me for the five thousandth time 😅

[@MushroomMike87]

@@RenegadeMushrooms Gotta love armchair scientist with little to no field experience

[@CheesieGamer]

While my grains are wet… does outdoor RH matter? I’m under 40% … I guess some transpiration will take place through the filter hole

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

Ambient RH doesn't have any affect really with spawn jars and filter patch bags. Most important thing is to nail your moisture balance on your grain. Here are a couple of videos that might help you out: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4iun4eBh9ymi5osi=-qCEXm3n-8zMWIEm kzbin.info/www/bejne/d3zaoZ1qfMhqZpIsi=eg4grAkZpIw3Zsc6

[@AdmiralAckbar666]

🔥🔥🔥🤘😎

[@elizabethr2908]

Hi, if I only have rolled oats instead of whole oats for substrate, will rolled oats work?

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

For best results, you definitely want whole grain kernels, but there are a lot of options. I prefer wheat, but oats, rye, millet/milo blend (birdseed) are all options.

[@elizabethr2908]

@@RenegadeMushrooms , thank you! I subscribed to your channel and hit the notification 🔔 I’m new to growing mushrooms and I’m about to binge watch all your videos! 😊

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

@@elizabethr2908 Awesome, thank you. Let me know if you have any questions 👍

[@R00H]

Do you no longer add bran to grains?

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

I still do, just not every time because sometimes I'm saving bran for other things or trying something new. It's a good trick though.

[@MathieuGoldstein]

Do you still add bran to your grain sometimes, as you did in a former video?

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

Yes, I do for some of my grows. I'm always playing with new stuff. From what I've seen, there's no reason not to add it if you can get it inexpensively. It speeds up your colonization a bit, and adds some extra nitrogen to your blocks. Also, you can skip the air drying step by just mixing in dry bran to balance the moisture.

[@MathieuGoldstein]

@@RenegadeMushrooms will try, thanks!

[@shahar50]

Noce video just what i needed, few questions If i dont have this silicone cups what can i use? Alumium sheets? or where can i get? Second if i dont have hepa filter how can i shake the jar? 3 can you make a video to show how you make jars covers? With the 2 disks Thx niceee videos as always

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

Yes, I can probably make a video out of that. If you don't have the silicone, you can just make lid shields out of aluminum foil as you mentioned. If you want to buy the silicone caps, they are at Microppose.com

[@shahar50]

@@RenegadeMushrooms thx What about the shaking if you dont have filter? Is it possible?

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

@@shahar50 You could use a still air box.

[@MathieuGoldstein]

@@RenegadeMushroomswhy do you need so much precaution to shake the jars? Aren’t they safe since sealed behind the .2 micron filter patch?

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

@@MathieuGoldstein It's the imperfect seal of the lid. The plastic lids can let contams in if there's too much air movement. If you were using real metal canning jar lids, there is less of a risk. Good question, my brain was stuck in plastic lid mode. I will mention that to Shahar.

[@plamenconev3387]

Hello, is there an alternative version of polyfill (to replace it with another material) I want to use for a filter on jars for sterilization? thanks in advance

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

Two layers of micropore medical tape or synthetic adhesive filter discs from Microppose.com

[@plamenconev3387]

@@RenegadeMushrooms 🍄❤️ tenks bro!

[@plamenconev3387]

@@RenegadeMushrooms Hi again can I have one more question.If I add brown rice flour to coir substrate would it be a good idea (pre-sterilized brown rice flour)

[@plamenconev3387]

hello, can you have your opinion: I decided to use rye grain, brown rice flour! Substrate coconut fiber. Is it possible to add a first layer of perlite in the box, create a layer of coconut fiber, brown rice flour (colonized grain) shell top layer vermiculite? My idea is to have more nutrients in the substrate! My main question is when to add the brown rice flour (together with the grain in the jars, or in the substrate? I will grow in a small box for personal use! Thanks in advance 🍄❤️

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

@@plamenconev3387 I think you can skip the layer of perlite on the bottom. If you are growing in a plastic box (monotub), just mix your colonized spawn into your substrate and add it to the box. Put the lid on and you should be good. You can add a layer of moistened vermiculite to the top to help retain water in your substrate if you like. Just make sure to clean everything with 70% isopropyl alcohol first, and drill some holes in the lid so your mycelium can breathe. You can cover the holes in the lid with two layers of cloth medical tape.

[@gregorybowen1678]

What the next step when the jars are ready

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

Move them to substrate bags, for me it's usually pasteurized HWFP.

[@davidflores2605]

You don't put the lids on your tote when incubating?

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

Yes, I do have the lid on. Then I usually cover the tub with a bath towel to keep it a little dark.

[@davidflores2605]

Thank you for the reply!

[@Jonnygurudesigns]

I was using brown rice in jars.. it looked to be at the right moisture levels when I loaded the jars.. about 8 days in, the rice started getting ultra moist and started to smell a little bit.. not all the rice, but around half in each jar. It occurred in different areas in the jar. Not just all sitting on the bottom or on the same level. I had a possible temperature change from day to night, but they were in my closet so I'm not sure what caused it.. is it bacteria? Just turning bad because it's decomposing? I threw it in some substrate anyways.. different shoebox tubs just to see what comes of it.. looks like it's starting to colonize the substrate.. if it was cause by bacteria or some sort of rot, do you think it's ok to consume what ever if anything is produced? Thanks I hope I didn't ramble on too much

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

Yeah that sounds like bacteria for sure. It's possible the mycelium could overcome it and produce some fruits but I never eat anything from obviously contaminated substrate as a general rule. Rice is at the bottom of my list for grain spawn suitability. It can work, but moisture balance is more difficult. The kernels also burst very easily and it seems more prone to contamination.

[@Jonnygurudesigns]

@@RenegadeMushrooms sounds like I need to up the quality of my grain spawn.. what are the best grains to use? I have oatmeal currently.. need to buy a pressure cooker though

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

@@Jonnygurudesigns Wheat is my favorite. Rye and oats work well too. You want whole kernels though, not oatmeal.

[@Jonnygurudesigns]

@@RenegadeMushrooms Yes correct on the Oats. That's what I have, whole grain. the only reason I used rice is because I don't have a pressure cooker.. Just steaming the jars of rice after a 10 minute boil. Drain, load jars and steam for 90 minutes.. I'm moving across the world in a a few months and didn't want to purchase the Pressure boiler just to toss it away.. I'll see if I can find a solution! Thanks for your help with this! very appreciated bro

[@bobcat7380]

I did my hard winter berries just like this video and my grains were to dry and nothing would grow except 1 jar of turkey tail out of 10 jars. I soaked for 12 hours also Then I tried mossy oaks tek with oats I used producers pride I soaked for 24 hours and I did bags but out of 5 bags nothing grew.. I had bought a 50 pound bag of oats so tried a 24 hour soak then rinsed really good then did a 10 minute simmer and now I have growth.. why do you think this is happening.. do you think there is a fungicide on the producers pride whole oats.. Ive seen plenty people use the tek you show here with success what am I doing wrong

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

It is very possible that the seed is treated with a fungicide. This is common with grain that is intended to be used as seed. The wheat I use is intended for chicken feed so no fungicide. The other consideration is that some grain can be more resistant to hydration so you have to adjust. Look to be able to easily push your thumbnail into the grain and crease it. That is a good sign that they are properly hydrated.

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

Here is another faster prep method you can play with. I would look for grain intended for feed to avoid the fungicide risk and play with some different techniques in small batches until you get it down. I know it's frustrating, I've been there. Don't give up, you'll get it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/qYHblax5jpWMqZI

[@bobcat7380]

@@RenegadeMushrooms the oats I bought were for horses and the hard winter wheat berries were for human consumption very clean food grade

[@bobcat7380]

@@RenegadeMushrooms thank you so much for responding

[@satanicfigures6667]

Why did my grain all stick together and I needed to shake the shit out of it after pressure cooking? I used wheat

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

Not sure, usually wheat shakes pretty easily for me. Need more info. How did you prep your grain? Do you see a lot of kernels that have burst open? What was your full hydration process?

[@satanicfigures6667]

Well for the first round of jars I did an 80 minute soak from boiling water then I pressure cooked it at 15psi for 90 minutes, let cool overnight and inoculated in the morning. The second round of jars I let them soak for 15 hours, cooked on the stove then pressure cooked for 2 hours at 15psi, they are super bursted but honestly, I went for it anyway and I’m seeing what happens. But both of them when they came out of the pressure cooker were all fully stuck together and when I’d flip the jar over they would all slide to the other side. I put them in an incubation chamber that I made and 3 days later still no growth at all and the jars honestly look dry but the grain looks moist.

[@satanicfigures6667]

Also just to add - I let the grains dry the first time for probably 3 hours and the second time around 5-6 hours and they were Both sticky and stuck to my hands.

[@satanicfigures6667]

Ethiopian wheat

[@satanicfigures6667]

I’m curious if I’m just using grain that’s too old or if I fked up.

[@CheesieGamer]

I am 10 days into mycology and already have like 12 jars some wet some grains look like they almost become pop corn inside the jar 😂

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

Sounds like you may have soaked them too long or too hot.

[@dellamb6620]

The best place near me to buy organic grains is Azure. They drop off at a place near me and I pick it up so shipping is $4. They have a hard white wheat $1.28 lb. 33g carbs 6g protein /soft white wheat $0.61lb. 35g carbs 5g protein /hard red wheat $0.91 lb. 32g carbs 7g protein/ rye $0.68 lb. 32g carbs 4g protein. All are non GMO and certified organic. I'm new at this and I am going to be following your methods and teks. You seem to be the best mushroom guy on You Tube! So are you using the hard or soft wheat....white or red? Just asking because the soaking and moisture absorption properties might be different. I'm getting ready to place an order for 150 lbs. Buying that amount will get me a 15% discount. I store it in 5 gal buckets in Mylar bags with oxygen absorbers and so I can grind it if I don't use it for mushrooms. (crazy prepper type). I was thinking either the soft white wheat or Rye. Thinking the soft white might burst when I PC it? Thanks for all you do!

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

I would think any of them would work as long as you adjust your hydration procedure accordingly. The wheat I'm using doesn't specify as far as I can tell, it just says "wheat". Here's a link to what I'm using: essexcountycoop.com/wheat-50/

[@dellamb6620]

@@RenegadeMushrooms Dang that is a good price! I will have to check with some "horse" people and see if we have a place like that nearby. Thanks again!

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

@@dellamb6620 No problem, thank you for the kind words and for watching. I'm here if you have more questions.

[@840swed840]

I disagree that burst kernels will cause bacterial growth. If the bacteria is there it’ll show regardless of it being burst or not.

[@RenegadeMushrooms]

From what I understand, some bacterial endospores will always survive the pressure cooker run, just in a weakened state. Burst kernels can cause them to germinate and flourish before your mycelium can take hold. 20 years of experience, and thousands of grain runs tells me this is true. At the pressures and temperatures we work as home cultivators with substrate and grain, we are always working in a state of "sterile enough".