Classic Porsche 911 Ownership: The 5 Biggest Challenges Of Owning An Air Cooled Porsche

[@Rennthusiast]

Think air cooled Porsches are worth it in spite of what I talk about in the video?

[@trevormacdougall9385]

Personally, I enjoy owning these cars for the history, the build quality and the way they make you feel. I have an 87 3.2, and 92 transaxle 968 and a 2009 Cayenne S. I like them all for different reasons. In total, to acquire all three, I’ve spent far less than what it would cost to buy a new 992 base car. And I don’t think the 992 would feel very special. Great car, probably, but anyone with the money can just get one. Searching, finding and caring for a classic is a different experience.

[@briani3599]

Without a doubt. My 76 drives tight and the high rev wail always leaves me smiling. I have concerns of future maintenance as the experienced mechanics retire.

[@1993Turbo36]

3 964s out on a short drive. Air cooled are absolutely worth it kzbin.info/www/bejne/gWLaZWBqbc2Ybsk

[@neilfisher7999]

I've commented before that I think it is a love hate relationship. Once you get the car well sorted they are extremely fun to drive. Getting to that point can be frustrating. I drive a 987 Boxster now, which is a blast to drive and I haven't had to do anything but routine maintenance. I recently drove my nephews 87 coupe which he has spent a couple years getting into incredible shape. The driving experience was nirvana. I'm just at a stage in life where I don't want to fiddle with things. I just want to get into it and drive. I still sometimes wish I still had my 87 Targa, but I'm content with what I have now. If you have the means and the patience to care for a classic, then enjoy it while you can.

[@AndyStalder]

Right now worth it for me, even though right in the middle of your step 3 (?) - getting the car sound post-purchase, even though purchased carefully with thorough PPI. Part of the charm(?) and maybe inevitable given the age of these cars. Not for the faint of heart for sure.

[@paulmoor595]

I had numerous 911SC in the early 2000s. If bought correctly they are fantastic cars, super simple to work on and absolutely bullet proof. Every one I drove as my daily, come rain or shine. Parts for servicing were super cheap. As for the drive...one of the best sounding and most engaging cars ever made.

[@flatsix-misfit3445]

First 12 months of air cooled ownership be prepared for the Porsche Classic Tax!!! Get through that and it’s all smooth sailing…

[@Rennthusiast]

Amen.

[@johnny167]

And watching all his videos don't help. I'm in my third month and I already ordered Fister SSK and BBS E88.

[@Rennthusiast]

That’s what I like to hear! Good parts.

[@993mike]

As a guy who’s owned 964’s and 993’s, keep in mind they are not even close to the same performance level, handling levels or interior quality of 997’s or newer cars. I think the perfect bridge between old and new is the 997.2, as you have most of the advantages of the newest cars but in a package that’s not too big or complicated compared to 991’s and 992’s.

[@robbcropp6412]

Finding a good shop is so important! I have had some bad experiences with not so great shops.

[@haddockrl]

Being a German Porsche 911 (991.1 Carrera S) owner it's always a great fun to watch your channel. Very qualified and good information from your side, you share your passion, the pros and cons about aircooled 911 and I really appreciate this. Please continnue.

[@matthieubret3304]

I would say it can apply to all classic Porsches. I've owned a 944 for the past 4 years now, and I really see myself still going through the challenges you are listing here. Finding the right car and the right workshop are probably the most challenging parts. It sets the bases of what the future of the ownership will look like. The other challenges come naturally after the first 2. Having the car mechanically sound can take a long time and get very frustrating like you said depending on what has to be done and your budget. As for the modifications, the more you drive the car, the more you learn about it and the more you notice what can be upgraded to take the driving experience to another level. And the look is also important because you end up spending a lot more time starring at the car than you would ever think before owning one!

[@Rennthusiast]

Great points all around. Thanks for taking a moment to comment.

[@jeffv103]

Kudos for the homage to the 917 shift knob

[@davidsherley2652]

Good video Will - I like how you’re shaping the channel - it’s very real. Your 5 points align with my experience. I can’t agree more with how important it is to have a mechanic with whom you have a trustful relationship. At the moment, I’m working through negotiations on a second air cooled Porsche. The points of trusted mechanic & unanticipated issues really hit home for me. The 3.2L, 915 gearbox 914 I’m working on drives incredibly (…off the charts!), is very executed, is gorgeous - but it has a significant engine issue the current owner honestly didn’t know about. By chance, I got the opportunity to negotiate a private sale with the owner, rather than bid via Bring A Trailer. If I’d not been able to get the 914 up on a lift with my mechanic, review / discuss what we saw and had a drop of oil land on my forehead to signal the issue, I’d have a truly massively unpleasant surprise ahead of me.

[@Rennthusiast]

Thank you for the comment. Im really glad the content is hitting home. The goal is to help people really understand the relationship we have with these cars. As someone who had a nasty surprise ($7,000+ trans rebuild) on my 964, as well as a couple of years of living with my well-used 993 and 3.2 I do feel I have a lot of real life experience to share. This air cooled Porsche market is insane. Congrats on being able to slow roll your 914 purchase and do it in a way that you’re protecting yourself.

[@davidsherley2652]

@@Rennthusiast ouch - $7K hurts! Imagine if I’d gotten this 914 on BAT for a maximized price and then found (worst case) I had to do a $15K engine rebuild. I’ve never done BAT; but after this case, I never will - either as buyer or seller.

[@Rennthusiast]

I avoid BaT the plague. Too many unknowns. I do know a guy who scored big time on an ocean blue (?) 993 C2S right before the craze came on, but I have seen too many people pay silly prices to be interested in buying thru an auction.

[@wsl5585]

The key to successful ownership is a friend owning a German car repair shop. To make the '95 993 C2 "my own" I modified it with a chip, ROW (OEM rest of world) suspension and aftermarket exhaust. The great thing with a '95 993 is OBD1. It facilitated passing California smog certification after the chip mod.

[@all-flat-engines]

An alternative to #2 is just learn to work on the car yourself, it’ll help if you need to go to a shop

[@element720]

Something about the way this guy communicates.. easy to understand and digest

[@Pokertyme2009]

Obsession, passion, you hit the nail right on the head ! I sold my '86 911 many years ago, luckily I'm top on the list to buy it back. Thanks, great vid.

[@byond8188]

Nice job. Really enjoy your videos.

[@timking2822]

That's a lot of challenges. There are a lot of great products out there.

[@santacruz2190]

Love these videos! I could not have said it better. Yes these cars can be painful to own. But driving them hard on twisty backroads makes it all so worth it. Plus you get to admire them sitting in the garage. They are just so good.

[@tommylOTITO]

Videos are getting better and better, thank you

[@williammorris3334]

Not a 911 owner but I do own a 981 Boxster S and have been bitten by the bug hard. Bought it five months ago and I’m in the sorting out/ mods phase. Currently waiting on a new CV axle, new cv boots and drive belt. I’ve done all the maintenance and replaced the springs with H&R’s myself to lower the stance and improve the handling. I bought a Quick-Jack to work on all my cars and it’s amazingly easy to use. I’ve got a Soul exhaust on order and will be getting a tune from FVD soon. For me it was a balance of having a comfortable practical car but still having the Porsche experience and it suits me perfectly. If I could I’d get a 993 Carrera S with a manual trans of course for the purest, most analog Porsche experience but my budget only allows one hobby car and a mid-engined Porsche that pulls one G in a turn and runs a twelve second qtr isn’t too much of a compromise. Lol

[@Rennthusiast]

Boxster is a great choice, and glad you’re enjoying it. Thanks for watching.

[@constantineeliadis5582]

Very useful info thx. Video would be half the length tho' without the highly repetitive phrase "Classic Porsche 911" (10x in first 4 min). I think everyone is aware the subject of the video :). Had a '77 911S Ice Green. Easily the most beautiful colour ever put on a 911. The 2.7L lump, not so much. Lovely and free-revving. Once torn down with hydraulic tensioners, carrera valve covers, valve guides, ground valves seats, honed cylinders, new studs, sensors, gaskets, seals, and pretty much everything else, it ran great but still hot ... My 2013 991S is the keeper ... cheers...

[@ai8356]

Great video. My challenge is how far to take my 86 930 in terms of restoration v. preservation; use v. value. While my 930 is in good condition and relatively lower mileage - 70K, anytime I see one of the 930s or any G model from the 80s in a video or pictures, it appears to be in mint condition (enhanced photography?). Perhaps that is what people gravitate to. Nevertheless, respray and value diminishes. New interior - cost v. value. Drive a lot - gotta enjoy the car - v. not adding too many miles to lower condition and value. Ultimately, each of us needs to decide where our value is in ownership. Just a lot of tradeoffs to consider.

[@Rennthusiast]

Thanks and agreed. It’s a personal prioritization exercise. I let go of the money/return thing (for the most part) and now enjoy them a lot more. I don’t feel like I have to worry about depreciation and all of that. I just focus on enjoying the experience

[@timholt8369]

Absolutely Air Coooled 911's are worth the effort to locate, vet , buy and drive !! They offer something that the modern water cooled cars can't. There's just not that many 'quality' air cooled 911's available to buy in the US anymore. So many got solid to Europe ( Germany) from 2010 to 2016. The US market buyer for an air cooled car doesn't realize that thousands upon thousands got exported back to the continent and will not be coming back. Find a good one and buy it.

[@JosephJoseph-rj2dj]

Will, wonderful effort and content - as you know my thoughts from our conversations. Classic car ownership isn’t for everyone. They are 25-50 year old cars! They don’t come with CPO! They are in some sort of a spectrum of being “sorted” and will always need something irrelevant of how sorted they are. Part of the fun of owning them is the challenge of chasing problems, solving them, hunting parts, building relationships with craftsmanship experts to look after your cars and grow your knowledge of them! The mistake that many do these days when buying these cars is wanting to follow the trend of Luftgekult with a “newer car” mentality!! I love the video and like the points - Perhaps my only comment is that you express the issues as “beware” - instead to I would focus to create a true culture of next generation classic car ownership is encouragement to enjoy all of these 5 points as part of the overall ownership so folks don’t get discouraged. 😊 As always, I wake up at 5AM on west coast looking forward to your videos, keep it up brotha!! - JJ

[@RichardDLeblanc]

To your point about the culture of ownership, classic car owners are really custodians of museum pieces that they embellish and maintain at great expense for personal enjoyment and to the benefit of car enthusiasts everywhere.

[@johnwilliams7530]

Will you pretty much nailed it. I am on my 3rd air cooled (also 95 993) and through all the cars it has been about the same. Only disagreement is that I say the shop is #1 on my list. Mine in Portland has been with me since the first one and is invaluable. When I found this car it was underpriced and a quick call to them on why and they gave me good advice to buy it and don’t make the repair (front blower motors). The other part you are so right about is the addiction to them, no idea exactly why but man they are so addictive.

[@911thingstorepair]

For 6 years every day I was searching for my 911 and I’m still screening the market although I’m not planning to buy another one now😅 Her name is Martha and she’s really an ice breaker, who lead me to several great friendships going far beyond the car thing. Another big plus is her variability: Being a wedding car, going to holiday with it, grocery shopping, going to a hike with the crew, taking some rounds on a racetrack or conquering curvy country roads - she does everything, we’ll not perfect, but with giving my friends and me maximum joy! Happy to have her as a perfect allrounder.

[@PhilsEuro]

I can relate to the "all consuming" comment as well as "you will spend more than you want on these cars". They are worth it if you have the resources :). Glad this community is here to share without feeling ostentatious, its about the love of Pcars.

[@gsten2116]

Isn't feeling ostentatious a big part of the allure if these things?

[@angrygardener2430]

In my experience they all cost the same (a lot), the difference is the payment plan. You can buy a top dollar quality car and maybe get away with only 20% in getting it sorted so you can use it every day. Or, you can buy a “drivers quality” or “10 foot” car and probably end up spending the full purchase price again to get it where you want it. But it is a hobby, and its about the journey. I’m 5 years into my journey with my 1977 911S with a big 3.6 motor. First year was very, very expensive. But now its basically oil changes and small repairs, and it’s pretty much my daily driver.

[@Rennthusiast]

I feel like it also about the big picture vision for the car. Is the goal a patina backroads driver or a concours car for example. That will drive the investment needed.

[@roninsc]

Another great informative video!

[@marcelfehr2267]

Great content, Will; keep on going, I really like your vids! What's owning these cars? Sometimes I just go out , open the garage door and - stare at it! And I still have that feeling, it's a bit ... a dream! And EVERYTIME I close its door after a drive, I turn around to have another (and another, and another) look at it! Rgds, from Switzerland with a 94 993 C2

[@jeffgagnon4557]

Great job on video. I like your remarks about mods, I have resisted mods and left my 993 stock. So far after >1year with my 993, it’s been a oil change and gas. Maybe stock eliminates some of the challenges when owning an air cooled car? Food for thought. I have Shelby’s and they seem so much more straight forward than the 993 almost making me nervous to do anything to the Porsche. I do know that when I modify something on other cars it usually has a cause and effect. This fact keeps you chasing the next fix for the fix already done. Did you modify all your 911’s? Maybe a video on stock air cooled cars is worthy of this question? BTW missed you at Indy for the Porsche Cup. All the best!

[@jeffryrosen3438]

You hit the bulls eye on that video. Fantastic job 👏

[@marksummers463]

1st challenge - snap oversteer! 2nd massive electrical probs & brekdowns.

[@Rennthusiast]

Haha hasn’t been my experience but doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Each example comes with its own history and condition so yes, some have problems but generally once they’re sorted, they’re good. The oversteer reputation is really with the pre-1989 models and the turbos especially. The suspension doesn’t allow for good consistent contact of the entire rear tire under lateral pressure.

[@darbo23]

Take your points about some folks liking it standard, others modified… good plan to leave aside money to take the MY02s and duck tails off and getting the acquired car back to a factory look! Keep those standard bits and hand them over, ask me how I know!

[@danielm9940]

There are some very critical places that you should always look at first before you consider any purchase! The mechanics can be expensive but can be sorted by a knowledgeable mechanic, Porsche body work can be a very unwelcome surprise!

[@57eleven1]

One thing to be prepared for is folks talking to you about your car everywhere you go. Almost every stop and often folks giving you the thumbs up while driving down the road. It’s amazing. I had a guy stop right traffic, I was waiting at the light but he was able to continue with his right turn but he stopped his car, blocking traffic behind him, to give me his card. After asking if I’d sell he then tells me if I ever sell please call him. He didn’t care about the horns honking. 🤷🏼 lol I finally have my 86’ tweaked out. I believe everything is fixed. I’m driving it everyday to get comfortable to take a trip. Maybe to the mountains in N. Ga., Tn, N.C. to see the best fall leaves changing and enjoy the twisties! That’s what we call them for my motorcycle rides. Ok, too much info. Have a great day!

[@Rennthusiast]

I call them “Thumbs Up Machines” meaning they generate so much positivity on the road. I don’t know what it is about them, but even non-car people love them. I had a dude chase me down on his motorcycle in my 964 to talk to me about it. I was thinking he wanted to steal it for a minute 😂

[@57eleven1]

@@Rennthusiast lol

[@gsten2116]

Lose days or weeks searching for a tired old car, overpay and have panic attacks buying said car,, roll the dice on some guy knowing how to fix old, overpriced,, busted car, spend more time and money getting the old car to actually run, spend more time and money making the car something that you want to drive, then become an obsessed brand chaser. Sounds like fun.

[@OEMPlus]

0:20 is me for sure :D

[@HaegemanXavier]

Great video, I think I have the same problem as you have regarding the obsession 😉

[@sonnyd510]

Always enjoy these vids and shares, thank you!!

[@nk00506]

Great video and 100% true.

[@markweisgram155]

I really like the 911 owners interviews, they are really interesting to hear about their experiences. Love the videos.

[@Rennthusiast]

Thanks. The interviews are fun. I have a new format I’m testing: a virtual 911 owner interview. A gentleman from Melbourne, Australia takes us through his wine red SC. I already have the footage and audio and I think it’ll be good.

[@aminmolavi]

Another great video. Finding a car is for sure the biggest challenge for someone looking to enter the community. You know you’re going to pay up…but what is a fair price these days when cars are getting bid up by the minute?!

[@Rennthusiast]

I know, and I am often left speechless by the numbers I see. On the one hand it’s good for my values. On the other hand, it’s bubblish and I’m a little worried about where all of this takes us. In the meantime I’ll keep creating content snd being grateful I have my 3 examples 😄

[@trevormacdougall9385]

Will, good video. I have an 87 3.2 and the car was pretty dialed in when I got it. My overall comment would be this…if you are new to these cars, take the time first to ‘learn’ to drive the car well. These cars do take time to learn. It’s not like jumping in to a modern hot hatch that anyone can drive well right away. Get the mechanical issue dealt with, if there are any, but I would avoid heavy mods until you’ve learned how these cars work. Then you can decide which mods might make the driving even better. My two cents.

[@Rennthusiast]

Excellent point and you’re right, especially with the older cars. Thanks for your contributions to the channel.

[@trevormacdougall9385]

@@Rennthusiast Great video. Keep up the great work.

[@wernerengel6357]

Everything you have said is spot on. Great show.

[@shughes911]

Can you give me some advice or recommendations on what would be a good 911 to buy on a budget of 45k? I have done a lot of research on the 997 and so I am leaning in that direction. However I am concerned of the Ims and bore scoring issues. I am also think about a base 80/83 Carrera and a 2014 cayman. I would appreciate you input. Thx Shane

[@Rennthusiast]

$45,000 is a tough number for a 911. This is a great tool to explore market pricing on any vehicle. You can poke around and set up searches around different generations you might be interested in. I use this tool often. www.classic.com

[@964Luftballoon]

I’m definitely in Challenge 4 &5. After the engine rebuild it turns on and drives as my daily . So now it’s time to drive and fine tune to my preference. The obsession on Rennlist to learn more about repairing/replacing worn items, enhancing driving characteristics, etc is real. I will say for those who want aircooled 911. They need to get in their head and come to terms that it is not modern by today’s standards. Meaning don’t expect it to be like a 991 or 996 in terms of comfort drive ability, etc.

[@Rennthusiast]

Hahaha been there done that. Rennlist can be the devil, especially the classifieds 😂😂😂😂

[@964Luftballoon]

@@Rennthusiast hahaha totally. Definitely need an intervention at times

[@lastrasp]

Will I can very much relate. Especially points 4 and 5. Getting the car to where I want it is absolutely a journey. But there’s no way I could leave it stock. And as for point 5, yes I’m totally obsessed!

[@tommylOTITO]

Can you do a video on your garage setup? Lift and toolboxes ?

[@jbear7580]

Great video Will. Thank you for sharing your experiences. The most important thing for me is the 2nd thing you mentioned, finding a reliable shop that can be trusted. I have mentioned to you before that I have the same 993, 1995, polar silver, as you do and I absolutely love it. I would love to get some cosmetic s

[@jbear7580]

But can't find a shop I trust. I will keep looking so I can progress with other thing I would like to do with my beautiful machine. Thanks again for the video, please keep them coming, Jeff

[@Rennthusiast]

Check with your local PCA President. Also larger air cooled porsche Facebook groups.

[@thedriverscorner]

One slight amendment to this in my opinion… while having a good shop can be valuable.. learning to fix the car yourself is priceless. Buy a sack of wrenches, and with this digital age almost anyone that can turn a wrench can know the satisfaction of keeping your own classic running!

[@Rennthusiast]

Great point and I can’t disagree. I have friends who do their own work and love it. I’m not blessed with the patience or aptitude to do it. I have successful done some projects but overall I prefer leaving it to the experts…especially the more complex jobs or chasing confusing issues.

[@slipsen1843]

You are totally right,it is more or less a sickness,but how wonderfull,and as you say it has a very nice social side of it.as you also meet a lot of interesting nice people Regards Robert Sweden

[@AndyStalder]

Great video, Will - unsurprisingly your experience with all of the last 3 generations of air cooled has informed you well. Your 10%-20% adder to purchase price for post-purchase fixes is unfortunately spot-on for my 1 data point anyway with my ‘87 (I’m right at 15% now 😒).

[@anthonyfunderburk7871]

I live in Greensboro NC im trying to get into 911 air cool 😎 83 -89

[@aseejr]

Accurately said!!! Joined you FB page also

[@spencerkosior5672]

I’m living point #4 currently, what to do next!

[@A356REP]

Love your vids. Get excited when it pops up to watch a new one. But havent you really done this video before?

[@Rennthusiast]

Good question. There’s some overlap with the 12 tips video (kzbin.info/www/bejne/bnPYY3aLgr1kmZI) I did awhile back but I wanted to focus more on the challenges of ownership in this one. I worry for people who are buying air cooled as part of the “feeding frenzy” we are seeing in this market. They are caught up in auctions, paying up for the cars (for good and bad examples 😣) and don’t really know what it’s gonna be like living with the car so I thought a condensed reality check would be good.

[@A356REP]

@@Rennthusiast cool!

[@claudiodiez55]

Eurosport is the Best Shop in the Chicago Area, 1995 993 Owner.

[@MB-uw6eh]

Parts? How difficult are they to obtain from Porsche genuine?

[@Rennthusiast]

I have never not been able to get a part.

[@MB-uw6eh]

@@Rennthusiast Gee?

[@mikedodd5178]

Great vid. Great Content.&And of course great car's..Mike sunny Spain .88 911.Cab..owner 24years...

[@cameronennis1956]

Hey man, love your channel! Too bad I missed you at Targa Carolina this year. I posted a couple vids of my own from the event so check em out if you get the chance! Hope to maybe catch you at DRT this year if you end up going. Cheers!

[@Rennthusiast]

Thanks! Saw a couple of videos you did with Keith driving. Enjoyed them. Keith always has great cars. Let’s definitely catch up at DRT. I’ll be down there for sure.

[@marks5320]

They’re like potato chips! You can’t just have one!

[@joejohnp]

Great video as always Will. Always like your reminder to set aside 10-20% of the purchase price for deferred maintenance and repairs. In many cases I'd actually say that instead of a %, saying $5-10k can make sense too. Reason why is a cheaper air cooled car may actually need more money than a more expensive one as you're paying up front for the fact that it's more sorted. Not always the case, but just my thought.

[@Rennthusiast]

You are likely right about the lower end cars, so good call. Thanks for mentioning that.

[@realdata1378]

The biggest challenge is its a momentum (not deep value) based investment. The 911 is the poor man's 928. Sorry - I gotta call balls and strikes. the 928 was European "Car" of the Year 1979. No other sports car including the 911 has ever won "Car" of the year. The 928 has won 2 production car land speed record at Bonneville (1986 and 2020) - the 911 has exactly won none. Even 911 enthusiast Magnus Walker has started his 928 collection - its Now or Never for the 928 still the biggest Bang for the Buck in classic Porsches. Singer/RWB/RUF could easily reimagine 928s - its just a matter of time before someone specializes in customizing and outlawing 928s - There is no substitute. The 911 Killer's time has come!

[@johnny167]

"The 5 Biggest Challenges Of Owning An Air Cooled Porsche" Number 1: Not owning an air cooled Porsche

[@Rennthusiast]

Where To Find A Classic 911: kzbin.info/www/bejne/raGydXmgrtF_pJY Problem solved