respecting beliefs | why we should do no such thing [cc]

An explanation of why I don't subscribe to the view that 'we should all respect each other's beliefs.'
You can support the channel at: / theramintrees
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subtitles
Arabic: TranquilOblivion
Brazilian Portuguese: Aymar Pescador Jr
Bulgarian: Djeitko
Russian: Sergey Savelyev
Slovak: Peter Ščigulinský
Spanish: Gianpaolo Merello
JOLULIPA's Spanish translation 'No Respeteando Creencias':
part 1: • No Respetando Creencia...
part 2: • No Respetando Creencia...
part 3: • No Respeteando Creenci...
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music © theramintrees

[@zoebird5990]

thanks for this. My mother was a christian scientist and didn't believe in disease. my family "respected her beliefs" when she found a teeny, tiny lump on her breast that could have easily been removed with surgery. Instead of doing that, she decided to heal it with Christian Science. she lied to her family and told us she had taken care of it. She did nothing but read christian science literature as her lump get bigger and the cancer spread. All the while keeping her family completely in the dark about what was going on with her. she continued this in the face of stage 4 cancer, believing that a "deeper understanding of christian science" would heal her. These beliefs were so strong that even when I would urge her to get treatment she refused and told me that *my* belief that she had cancer would prevent her healing. Which is why she didn't tell anyone until it was too late. Christian science didn't heal her. And the people in this religion that she loved so much abandoned her at her time of need. Her last few months were spent in pain and suffering because she refused even the most basic pain medications. No friends or anyone from the church visited her. She barely talked to me or anyone in the family. She just read her christian science literature and called her practioner (christian science "healer") who also abandoned her shortly before her death saying she was too steeped in "materia medica" (aka modern medicine) because she had taken some morphine for pain. She died at age 59. Christian science is a dangerous belief system. It should NOT be respected. It needs to be challenged, especially when there are children involved. It makes me feel really sad to realize how much neglect is steeped into this religion. Thanks for letting me post this novel... clearly I needed to get this out.

[@elliotr9095]

Your story fills me with twisted spite and sorrow. My own mom is a practicing Christian Scientist, and she... got pretty unhealthy. Autoimmune disease, of all sorts of kinds... Scar tissue in lungs... Not eating... She was wasting away in front of us and seemed blissfully ignorant and perfectly resigned to her new fate. I am not sure how she has made the recovery that she has made, but... it is painful, sympathetically and empathetically, to hear about your mother. I was worried I was going to see the same thing happen to my mom... The thing for us was that there was no real treatment. They could throw NSAIDS at her and antibiotics but it was really just a formality... Our medical system is an abysmal failure when it comes to complicated, deep diagnosis... I honestly had more confidence that a shaman would do better for her than a doctor with what I was hearing from her care providers. Somehow she is getting better. I an grateful to have pretty open communication with her and I believe that her letting her family in her bubble, with encouragements that didn’t always line up with her interpretations of “proper christian science” may have kept her foot in the door for actually trying to get better. Hearing about your mom... And especially about that fucking snake practitioner. I am sorry. Having been raised a Christian Scientist myself and exploring a number of other beliefs as well before becoming atheist at 15, I would have a number of choice words to positively lambast that piece of shit and his fucking excuse for spirituality. I know a couple of very good, wholesome Christian Scientists who I think model their religion very well and very moderately, but I think that more often than not people either just naturally turn to medicine anyway (in our house there wasn’t even a question - if shit happened, doc visit. For the kids, spiritual healing was reserved for an upset stomach), or they go the blissfully-ignorant route... that invites you to hate a part of the person that you love as you watch them fade, smiling, into the abyss. No. WAKE THE FUCK UP, I want to say to them. Even the founder of their religion Christian Science would crucify them (figuratively) for their inaction. Reading a god damned book and hiding from the truth is not what it was meant to be. My interpretation from my own study and rigorous bible/S&H study in group with a locally highly-respected teacher was that really CS was meant to be closer to a secular religion of meditation or prayer, even the founder says “don’t do nothing” and that she thought making a religion about her study was completely misguided. If one is dying while commitedly practicing exclusively CS as a treatment, then WHAT THEY HAVE BEEN DOING CONSTITUTES “NOTHING.” I want to spitefully scream it into the face of those people. However, the desire to do so is replaced by a defeated sorrow, because if one can’t get through to another, who wants to then force their will on their ailing loved one? It feels like there is no way out. I hope that you can forgive yourself wholly. It is of the utmost importance, and it’s always what our lost loved ones want. It is not wrong to reflect, as life goes by, on how things may be handled differently. It is good to learn from these experiences and use them to bring good into the world, as painful as they are... but first and foremost, our loved ones want us to love ourselves, and forgive ourselves. I know your mom would want the same for you, as mine would have wanted from me if she had passed. To do so... I would try, I think, but I am very grateful I have not lost my mother like this because I known it would be hard. I hope you have found it to be within your reach... For you, I send you an internet hug. I would rather no one would have to say goodbye to their mother for such an enraging and defeating reason. I hope that the sensible Christian Scientists out there can stir the pot a little bit, and say loudly to one another, “Hey: there is nothing wrong with medical treatment. It’s literally a part of our literature. If you are sick, and not getting better, GET HELP. Christian Science, you can work on all your life. If you’re watching yourself lose a battle with cancer or autoimmune disorder though, for the sake of your family, your friends, and yourself... GET HELP. If it isn’t working for you, stop beating a dead horse and FUCKING HANDLE IT. Ignorance and neglect are not a part of God’s plan for you. Responsibility and self-love are and if you are forgoing treatment and losing, then self-love and responsibility ask of you to re-evaluate, find help, accept the help, and you can continue your study, but do not do nothing.” Best wishes to you and your family. I hope you can all find healing, and that you keep up your strength and fill your heart with love.

[@Aetius_of_Astora]

My condolences

[@theuberlord7402]

There is no endorsement of “Christian” science in the Bible. Your mother was deluded by ignorant fanatics. We have been provided with doctors for the healing of sickness, why should not a Christian accept that gift? The woman who touched Jesus and was healed in the New Testament first saw doctors to treat her condition, when they could do nothing, she came to him.

[@theuberlord7402]

Zoe Bird I also apologise however, as I did not know that Christian Science is an actual twisted branch of Christianity. Normal Christians do not believe in Christian-based science, just science, which really doesn’t not contradict our belief system apart from certain debated aspects.

[@gerryvandepol8666]

.... sorry about your loss and your mothers delusion....it is easier to fool somebody than to convince them that they are wrong... believers in nonsense would sooner be dead then wrong... i wise man told me you have to Be wrong first to Be ‘right ‘..... Christian Science is a oxymoron.... if there was a hell, well you know the rest.

[@martaecala]

my philosophy teacher once said: respect people, not opinions.

[@V_2077]

Can you help me understand this? Can I respect a person who has the OPINION that 'women should have no rights' for example? I believe that I can't respect the person due to their opinion. I don't know if I am understanding correctly?

[@fafo867]

@@V_2077 man this is really hard. caring for people can actually entail to not care for people that cause harm. Thoughts and beliefs aee not intrinsic tho so there is a small chance to "save the human and kill the monster"

[@spookyscaryskeletons5593]

I believe that we should respect people who have done no harm to others. We shouldn’t respect some who have done harm verbally, psychologically, physically, etc with intent because they have harmed others that are a part of your reality and have gone against human morality, thus not being able to earn respect.

[@alcik_palcik]

Respecting a person with harmful opinions is ignorant. Why would I respect a person whose opinion is, for instance, that homosexual couples shouldn't adopt children when that is objectively a helpful thing. Similiar opinions also spread hate against a minority that deserves none in the first place. If the person doesn't respond by correcting themselves and their view when faced with facts disproving their statement, what reason is there to respect that ?

[@invalid_id3396]

How does one get accepted by people when they're never accepted in by people for their beliefs? For example you have 101 people looking at a coloured paper, 50 say that the page is black, 50 say that the page is white, but one says it is green. And all 3 parties disagree with each other. What should the individual do?

[@francreeps4509]

"Respect is earned, never commanded." -Some drunk guy I met on public transportation

[@stupidhat1779]

Wisdom whether drunk or sober :-)

[@distorted_heavy]

Wise ol drunkards

[@Spuds0the0Potato]

Common decency is given as a default but it can easily be lost. Respect is something a person has to earn

[@dirtydan9785]

They say a drunk mind is a sober heart

[@user-hu3iy9gz5j]

""Respect is earned, never commanded." -Some drunk guy I met on public transportation" -Some high guy I met in a youtube comment section

[@uboa8060]

I've always liked the phrase "Your right to swing your arms ends at my face." Religious freedom is good, no one is arguing against that, but the moment what you believe directly or indirectly harms someone, it deserves no respect.

[@mistyhusk]

I've never heard this phrase before but I really like it. Thank you for introducing me to it.

[@uboa8060]

@@mistyhusk No problem, lmao.

[@bacicinvatteneaca]

Religious freedom is bad. People shouldn't have the right to believe falsehoods

[@magnusm4]

That's why I always say: I have no respect or tolerance for a religion that doesn't respect one's humanity. We're animals and have emotions and instincts. So saying Lust and pre marriage sex is sin is ignorant of human nature as a species. Marriage isn't natural, it's a made up social construct thus has no merit of judgement or right to.

[@Dude8718]

Honestly even swinging an arm right in front of anyone and not hitting them can be considered assault depending on the Intent.

[@memecultarchive]

If your religion villainizes you for leaving the faith, questioning the belief system, punishes you for exploring other belief systems you should know it is a cult. the sooner you leave it the better.

[@pikapi6993]

This reminds me of Islam. If you're unlucky you can get killed for leaving it. In Iran , Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia the government will do it. It is actual Islamic law to kill apostates. And questioning the religion is caused by the devil and jinns. Some of these people are taught that it is dangerous to enter a church.

[@DmitriDmitri]

The thing that makes me sad is that many churches have stigmatized doubts and questioning, when those are perfectly reasonable things that most Christians go through. There's a point in many young adults' lives where they start trying to figure out who they are and what role they're to play in this world. When that happens, they have to question faith a lot, because it's transitioning from their parents', friends', or peers' religion to their own, and they have to really figure out what that means. Many Christians are scared of that, scared of those questions, because when there aren't educated Christians around to answer those questions, they can start to move away from the faith. But moving away from the faith is ALSO natural for many Christians. It's something a lot of them go through. Unfortunately some never come back from it. Thanks for reading my contribution to the series of novels in this comment section.

[@Echo81Rumple83]

that's what i like about Buddhism: all paths lead to nirvana. the problem is is that a lot of people are denied enlightenment, either by others or their willful ignorance, and it causes a lot of despair inwardly and outwardly. there are certain sects of religion that are more humanitarian whilst keeping the core message of, essentially, "be a good person," but i desperately wish they would be louder than the more authoritarian sects. i believe such humbleness is respectable, but even then, if it helps their sanity to pick their battles, they also need to know when to actually take on those challenges at all cost.

[@harrietr.5073]

... Well it can also be a religion and not a cult, and it can still have that.

[@mobcrusher99]

@@harrietr.5073no it can’t. A religion that isn’t a cult would not think less of you for leaving and trying a different religion. Does you religion do these things?

[@butter_nut1817]

The belief that someone should be infinitely tortured for a finite crime is unquestionably immoral.

[@theopaul931]

Thats not the point. The point is to either choose God or to be without God.

[@calsalitra4689]

@@theopaul931 And be infinitely tortured by your finite decision if you choose wrong.

[@VillackDeSage]

If your God wants us, mere imperfect mortals, to suffer on Earth and eternally in death, for the crime of doubting and erring. Then I'll gladly put my faith in the Devil, after all, he only punishes sinners.

[@theopaul931]

@@VillackDeSage If you are going to criticize then do it properly. The devil is no punisher, in fact him and his angels get the worst of Hell's tortures. All your choice is, is to live without God and that is what it is.

[@tomd96]

@@theopaul931 Right, but to be without god is to be condemned, right?

[@dixiebiscuit5623]

“Respect my beliefs” “Ok, but then you have to respect my right to criticize those beliefs if I deem them to be dangerous”

[@scambammer6102]

or if I feel like it

[@st3ll497]

this comment explains it all.

[@face....]

Now the question is do I have to respect this comment.

[@threemashup2662]

Just a question, how do you personally deem someone believing in god as dangerous?

[@lillonerboi504]

@@threemashup2662 If they advocate for the death of non-believers, or persecution of those who oppose their ideology.

[@spamham3356]

What really broke me was second grade at a lunch table. I went to a Catholic school for grades k-5, so we had just gotten back from religion class (church but framed in a classroom). We were talking about the lesson of how if you don’t believe in Jesus you go to hell, and one of my friends says, “so my dad is going to hell?” (His dad was extremely nice and helped out a ton at the school but was still atheist) the table went quiet and everyone was to justify it. I still remember that moment to this day.

[@vsuvi]

yea I hate that kind of belief...I personally believe that you can choose a religion that matches up with your moral code, so that you'd do the most amount of good in your life, and live peacefully Because just blindly having faith in the religion that you simply 'believe' in isn't the best for the person or the people around their life

[@TJ-hg6op]

I remember as a child i would purposely mention that I don’t believe in god just to make other kids mad and say I will go to hell, even from my friends. I was a weird child.

[@whisperywind314]

My perspective of god is that people don’t choose some things in their life. If you are a psychopath by nature you won’t be judged by a sin that you don’t have control of. God want his morals to be followed, but there is various ways to interpret himself. That is why you don’t put a symbol in gods name, people will interpret its appearance in different ways and all of them are right. When you don’t believe in god you still believe in something, we can’t as humans think about the “non existence” or death, so i think you go towards what you believe, being heaven a place of “peace”, and peace is different for everyone. So atheists won’t go to hell, well, at least no if they followed the simple morals and were a good person when alive.

[@vsuvi]

@@whisperywind314 Ohhh that's an interesting belief! I agree with you on how it differs from person to person, since God would sometimes wire our brains differently.

[@IdontKnow-ek4pd]

⁠@@whisperywind314 you can believe in something without perceiving it. I can neither perceive an eternity in heaven nor an eternity of nothing so to me god and death have an equal chance of being real. I just choose to believe in the one that sounds more peaceful to me which is death. I dont understand nothingness but i think when i die i will be nothing. The electrons that moved throughout my body will disperse and I’ll just be dead

[@littleblueclovers]

I’m atheist but I had a lot of friends of different religions. Most of them were pretty relaxed, but I remember 3 instances where I felt horror towards what beliefs people could possibly hold. 1. My mom has a severe mental illness where she’s tormented by voices and paranoia all moments of her life. My middle school Mormon friend told me that we should all be happy because she “chose” this path. She explained that people are given a choice before birth: live “normally” and try to work your way into heaven, or choose to take “the easy path” where she is guaranteed a spot in heaven. I’ve never before been so livid. My mom used to have more of her mind when I was in kindergarten and I remember her as loving, kind, and happy. Only 5-10 years later she spends her days screaming and breaking furniture, fearing that someone is hiding inside and trying to hurt us. To call that a “choice”, and the fucking “easy path” on top of that… I couldn’t believe it. It’s such a horrific sight and I can’t imagine how terrifying every day feels for her. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy and my “friend” expected me to cheer and celebrate about it. 2. My first sleepover with my best friend (Muslim) was also deeply uncomfortable. Everything was going amazing until we got ready for bed. We were about to sleep and she starts to cry. I go to comfort her and she tells me that she can’t stand the fact that I’ll burn in hell for all of eternity. I didn’t know what to say. I think I said something non-committal, but she doubled down and explained in detail how I am guaranteed to experience all the pain forever after I die because I’m not Muslim. She kept saying stuff like “you don’t understand, it’s eternal pain forever. There’s no escape and you’ll burn only to be burned even more. Forever and ever. Even when you regret it, your soul will never be able to leave”. I was so unnerved at the sheer certainty in her words and how it sounded like a mix of desperation, fear, and concern. The tone she used in her voice still haunts me. We were in elementary/middle school at the time. I could tell that she cared about me, but this was the only way she could express that. She was just a kid. Why did someone say that to her? 3. This was when I was older (and in that sense I find it more concerning). I was in high school and one of my Christian friends learned that I was atheist (I don’t really talk about it). She went up to me asking why I don’t follow the Bible. I said that I think the Bible contains some good morals, but it’s also a very old book with very old values and beliefs. She responded “How do you know right from wrong without a moral compass? What’s stopping you from killing people?” That scared me a bit. I didn’t think I had to explain that most people have basic human empathy. I said that I don’t hit people because I wouldn’t want to be hit by others. I hesitantly said the same applies for murder. If I think it sucks being killed, then I think it would be a pretty shitty thing for me to do to someone else. She still was confused. “Why don’t you just go steal and kill? You believe there’s no punishment for it. Why not do it?” Well, firstly, there’s the police. But also, I… never felt the need to kill someone??? It’s not something I’ve secretly hoped I could do… and I still think it would suck getting murdered. But she continued to ask why I didn’t just go kill people. It almost sounded like the Bible was the only thing stopping her from murder. I felt there was something off about not doing something just because something told her to, and she didn’t consider why it’s said to be wrong in the first place. I felt a little nervous around her since then.

[@WorldWeaver]

The reasons I don't kill people: 1- I am not a psychopath 2- I don't believe in an afterlife. I believe that if I kill someone, that person will just cease to exist, leaving the whole wonderful life they could've lived completely wasted, and ruining the lives of all the people who loved them, with no hope that they'll ever meet again 3- I have no reason to kill anyone 4- The police are not forgiving 5- I would puke 6- It's hard to kill people 7- I would have to go outside and touch grass And more! :D If the ONLY thing stopping a person from killing people is a fear of eternal punishment... Um... yeah, might wanna get that checked out.

[@filipporapetti9354]

I'm so sorry for your mother's condition, and to call that "the easy way", even if it may have been some misguided attempt to cheer you up, was just...wrong. The second story makes me feel so sad for that girl, you can clearly see a kind-hearted nature clashing against an abhorrent aspect of a belief system, and suffering greatly for that. As for the last one, that's genuinely terrifying: at best, that person is so walled off from any other belief system except their own that they seriously think no moral compass exists except their own, and at worst...well, if all that's keeping a person from murdering another human being is the threat of eternal damnation, then that person is not far from someone who kills in their god's name, for if only your god is keeping you from murder, what happens when I convince you that your god is absolutely ok with the murder of certain people? Just plain horrifying

[@radschele1815]

There are religious people who CAN be tolerant to others, believing in their religion without putting others down. But... the religions are not like this, yes.

[@feru1071]

I too think it would suck to be murdered

[@filipporapetti9354]

@@radschele1815 True, I too was like that before becoming agnostic, but behaving like that is, ironically, to go against the dictates of some religions. Mine in particular was catholicism because I live in Italy and it is omnipresent here, although many small town priests (like the priest of my own little town) advocate for moderation and respect for people of other beliefs in their sermons. Still, after I found out the contradictions and dogmas of strict catholicism (like some of those spoken about in the video), I left that faith and started searching for my own morality. It's just...if I don't recognize myself 100% in all the beliefs of a belief system, I cannot be a part of it, I'm not the type of person that can ignore hateful claims in the name of a greater picture

[@ronaldiplodicus]

If someone honestly thinks that what they believe is true, they should also think that it would hold up to scrutiny. To deny someone questioning your beliefs you also to deny your beliefs.

[@ianmcelmurry2882]

As a Christian I absolutely agree with this, I’m consistently trying to listen to atheist speakers and such attempting to debunk Christianity.

[@arko.0.1.]

@@ianmcelmurry2882 how come you are still christian? if you are looking for an argument that can debunk god, there isn't one because religious people will always find an excuse. you should realize that god has no arguments FOR his existence. the only argument they have is just that he is above all logic and blah blah blah, thats just the dumbest excuse ever

[@nshtghattas7944]

Christians actually need people like these to develop in their faith, because without foundations to fall back on when being under scrutiny, your entire worldview falls

[@thebuilder5271]

Unless it’s a civil rights issue, no one should have to accept someone questioning their human rights

[@yousuck785why]

@@thebuilder5271 Human rights deserve protection and codification. They are not supposed to be violated.

[@starshade7826]

Let's be real, the true meaning of "respect each other's beliefs" is "don't make life a living hell for others based on belief."

[@gamertardguardian1299]

Goes both ways, absolutely agree. People can believe whatever they wish, as thoughts are a freedom we will have forever, hopefully

[@gigawooper2733]

@@gamertardguardian1299 (North Koreans excluded)

[@sechmascm]

@@gigawooper2733 people that don't abide by the rule are naturally excluded. In North Korea, the belief of a single person supported by a giant corrupt system of oppression is pushed down the throat of every living innocent citizen. Classic dictatorship

[@Mate_Antal_Zoltan]

@@gigawooper2733 I mean, you can still think whatever you want. You just can't say it out loud there

[@user-it2kq4ty9q]

a christian and a muslim saying that they respect each others beleifs means that they agree to disagree

[@mybodyisamachine]

I realize that this video has nothing to do with "We should hate others for their religion" but rather just "we should feel free to criticize each other"

[@YeprilesteR]

Yeah

[@iloveplayingtf260]

HI SODLIER TF2!!!

[@radschele1815]

Yes. And it's good that you're realized this😊

[@TemmieContingenC]

Thanks for the importance of being honest and open with our beliefs, soldier from TF2.

[@sebaschan-uwu]

Why would you think this video is about spreading hate?

[@davidsandrock7826]

Personally, when I say I respect someone’s beliefs, it’s shorthand for ‘I respect your right to believe what you want’. I’ve always thought that this was what everyone meant by that.

[@TheraminTrees]

And where it's shorthand for 'respecting a right to hold my beliefs’, I respect that right. But it isn't always shorthand. Very often, as discussed in this video, it's used to communicate that others need to capitulate in some way to an individual's belief - eg observe their ideological taboos. That's where I draw the line.

[@OceanusHelios]

@@TheraminTrees Me too. I do not bend the knee to magical sky daddies of any kind. I hold human dignity to be sacred but not the dignity of any religion to be sacred.

[@tj-co9go]

Why should you have a right to believe in things everyone already knows to be false by any sane and normally developed person? I mean like come on, if you are a Flat Earther, you couldn't even use your damn phones and internet without relying technology made using the knowledge that Earth is indeed flat. Giving free license to believe anything without knowledge on subject is dangerous. We should, to an extent, respect science and experts, although to constantly allow freedom of opinion and debate between ideas. Most religions, today, are the equivalent of believing in Flat Earth - utterly outdated, obsolete and replaced by better ideas already. Atheism is the future

[@ihavenoideaonanything]

@@tj-co9go i mean, i kinda agree but i kinda don't, if it's something that actively causes problems, like faith healing, fake psychics, or flat earthers then yes they don't deserve respect, but if it's simply someone's belief cause it just gives them hope or a meaning, i dont think theres anything wrong with that i totally agree with the science and experts part tho, science denial is a very big problem with these kinds of religions although if the religious person is attacking your beliefs or claiming that they are true, then they are actively setting themselves up for criticism, there's no way to pull the "respect my beliefs" card there

[@joegame4576]

it's more than that. respecting one's beliefs means not eating pork in front of a muslim, not making sexual jokes in front of a priest, etc. you don't have to go out of your way to make a positive environment for them but you should do you best to avoid making a negative environment.

[@BitchChill]

"Respect my belief" is just an attempt to avoid getting their beliefs challenged

[@BitchChill]

I need to start saying that more often

[@rp7159]

@@BitchChill I agree. We should all be open for criticism and our beliefs challenged. We should be encouraged to think hard about what beliefs we choose to accept in our life and have the courage to reject any belief that goes against common sense.

[@imyou5622]

big facts

[@jonahmordhaim2705]

The way i see it. If someone is happy believing religious nonsense i let them be.

[@jonahmordhaim2705]

@Greig91 should have probably mentioned. "As long as they don't force their beliefs to others".

[@danielrhouck]

I think a lot of people use the phrase "respect my beliefs" to mean "respect my right to believe these things", which is a different concept but one I'm much more willing to work with.

[@b.lonewolf417]

This, exactly. And in addition to that: "Respect my right not to engage with your attempts to convert me." I believe in the Big Bang, the theory of evolution, etc., but I have evangelical Christian family members who believe various forms of Creationism, "Original Sin," etc. I "respect their beliefs" in the sense that they can make a Facebook post about something religious, and I *DON'T* feel compelled to debate and argue them out of their beliefs. That's it. I wouldn't want them making it *their* goal to persuade me of *their* beliefs, either.

[@bluedreamer6564]

thank you for this comment, i feel it was necessary

[@corbin4360]

This is exactly what I was thinking!

[@elise205]

People are the same with free speech. Freedom of beliefs is not freedom from having your beliefs criticised - it is simply the freedom to choose what to believe without legal intervention. If you believe that I will suffer eternal torture because I require proof of your god(s), then I will criticise that belief. Freedom of speech is not freedom from having your words criticised - it is simply the freedom to choose what to say without legal intervention. If you say racial slurs and/or queerphobic slurs, I will criticise those words. I firmly believe that freedom of speech and belief are two of the most important human rights, simply because it creates change as a natural element in culture and society. But that does not mean I endorse racism or religion.

[@danielrhouck]

​@@elise205 I realize that, as legal principles eg. in the US First Amendment, these only apply to *legal* repercussions and *legal* intervention. But I disagree that they should stop there. The government isnʼt the only group that can totally mess up your life and shouldnʼt actually do it. If you can get fired for your religious views, then you donʼt actually have religious freedom in practice. If your landlord can evict you if you speak out about some controversial political position, you donʼt actually have freedom of speech in practice. Just today I learned that a blogger I like just deleted his blog because the NYT wants to write an article about it, and they plan to use his real name instead of the pseudonym he uses. The *government* doesnʼt care what he says, but his employer, customers, and Internet randos who hate his blog enough to want to send him death threats do. In practice, he does not actually have freedom of speech under his real name. Sure, you should be able to criticize peopleʼs beliefs and words; thatʼs what this video is about. But saying that freedom of speech and religion are only legal ideas, instead of also being moral principles, goes too far in the other direction. You can believe what you want. I can criticize your belief. But I should not fire you for it, or evict you, or dox you; itʼs not enough that I just refrain from arresting you. *That* is what I mean by being willing to respect your right to hold a belief, and it is just as important as being able to criticize the belief itself.

[@riley_028]

to me, it can be put as simply as "I do not respect your beliefs because your beliefs do not respect me"

[@user-ud6ru4gu4e]

My beliefs do respect and call for me to be nice to you even if you hate me

[@rosevan7845]

@@user-ud6ru4gu4e Well good for you.

[@drewwallingsford6768]

@user-ud6ru4gu4e didn't your beliefs start a series of wars because opposing religions merely existed?

[@user-ud6ru4gu4e]

@@drewwallingsford6768 no, hypocrites started wars, do not confuse us with those we hate above all others.

[@user-ud6ru4gu4e]

@@drewwallingsford6768 and I doubt you would say the same thing to a Muslim.

[@alanakahiapo3604]

This was very powerful as someone who came from a religious family… the constant guilt tripping and “dehumanization” is real.

[@Litkeen]

Judging by your profile pic, maybe you should've stayed religious

[@alanakahiapo3604]

@@Litkeen it’s always the weirdo with no profile pic… don’t be weird I was 16 in this pic

[@youraveragerobloxkid]

@@alanakahiapo3604if you dont like you dont have to wear it

[@Galburok]

​@@Litkeencope

[@wehatenoth]

@@Litkeen and stay in a religion notorious for dehumanizing women? Yeah I don't think that would've been in her best interest cornball.

[@Hawaiian_Pizza_Enjoyer]

„No authority is beyond ridicule“ I like that

[@user-yw4fz6xk2j]

There is an asterisk on that rule. Except our authority. If you ridicule our authority, we ridicule you

[@blupandax7902]

If you had authority and somebody ridiculed you, your reaction would be the same as anybody else’s reaction in that situation. The book Animal Farm by George Orwell explained that most people would eventually become just as bad as the bad rulers they overthrew beforehand.

[@imperial2252]

@@user-yw4fz6xk2j what authority?

[@omerkaya545]

Ridiculing isn't something good, the only reason why we accept Ridiculing is that because it might be valid criticizm and not hate speech, but we don't know therefore we treat it as valid criticizm. Not all rediculing is productive and good.

[@Hawaiian_Pizza_Enjoyer]

@@omerkaya545 I just like the statement because I think everything should be able to be made fun of. Depending on the circumstances, *everything* can be part of a joke.

[@greencat1314]

I literally got an ad before this saying"I want you to imagine standing in front of Allah" wtf. Hell no

[@lovemagicfantastic]

Oh I got the same ad

[@marianmeletlidiscrap]

I got that one as well. I have gotten it a ridiculous amount of times

[@theonlyMoancore]

I got a legalizing weed ad

[@bigmacsixpacc]

Same

[@larsswig912]

I got the same ad too and I never had an ad like this before! Can advertisers choose videos to put their ads in or something?

[@nouche]

Freedom of religious belief is not a concept that protects your religion from being contradicted, it’s precisely the opposite.

[@yumeno-w-]

you like kissing boys dont you

[@jimmythe-gent]

It’s amazing ppl in here are talking about Christianity lol… there the weakest most non violent ppl… Islam on the other hand, Even Judaism… That’s another story

[@LobotomiteGator]

you like kissing boys, dont you?

[@Xeit]

The idea of "I don't respect your ideas and I don't require you to respect mine" is just such a beautiful one.

[@paulanocu3711]

"Whats your religion?" "Who the hell starts a conversation like that we just met"

[@mordredvonumbra154]

I had a vegan people flashback xD. But ye it sounds dumb. Unless your contemplating what food to make cause many religions have specific things banned and stuff.

[@yahiawalid188]

actually I would love it if a random stranger came to me and asked me what's my religion this would be a great opportunity to share and discuss my beliefs and morals with someone who is to me a blank page, someone that I don't have any pre judgements about. This conversation could be a learning point for both of us even if one of us wins, that doesn't necessarily make the other accept the winner's beliefs because beliefs are so deep that you cannot hope to change them in one day, but this conversation would lead to each one of us broadening their horizon and researching more. Small talk is boring and I would take a religious argument over it anytime

[@Aric-ls7bf]

@@yahiawalid188 Average rebbitor

[@SieMiezekatze]

Every catholic person, specially at a job interview like not even my name

[@saveriannathan1415]

Yup, that's what happen in a religious country.

[@ASH-ep3td]

instead of saying you respect someone else's beliefs, a better phrase would be to say you respect their right to believe it and think freely.

[@shalom5978]

I feel like that's what people mean when they say that.

[@sneefinsnorfintime]

Aye.

[@davids5724]

only thing is that i wouldn’t call religion “thinking freely” as indoctrination prods people to follow it mainly out of fear, guilt and pressure from relatives. If someone’s actually went the extra mile and looked into it deeply, it would put them in conflict with other followers who have different outlooks. So what’s the point in identifying with a misunderstood ideology. Religion, political and social ideologies, nationalism and status divisions all need to go into the bin. The root of all these rigid thought structures is essentially selfishness and that shit’s wack.

[@idkwhybut...]

@@davids5724 Of course, that's an extremely surface-level understanding of the nature of religion.

[@tempestive1]

@@shalom5978 I'm not so sure, I often see people getting offended on behalf of their beliefs. Not only religious beliefs, mind you. I think many might equivocate respecting the right to have an idea with respecting the idea.

[@pjm4364]

I’m an ex muslim and it’s so frustrating because i can’t even say it out loud in real life. I live in ksa, a muslim country to some extents I suppose, and it’s so suffocating because my family and everyone I’m surrounded by is muslim and in Islam there’s a death penalty for apostates (people who leave the religion). There are many things wrong about this religion I have no idea how over a billion people are blinded by it.. many scientific mistakes and when it comes to morals, it has none. It literally doesn’t respect anyone who has another belief and even orders to kill those who don’t believe in their god. I do not respect this religion nor do I respect the apologists of it. Once I’m just a little older I’ll leave everything behind and start my own life. I’ve already cut off my friends because I know they wouldn’t accept me after I left islam so I hope I’ll be able to meet more amazing people in the future.

[@rishei4748]

Damn bro. I hope you can make it out to a safer environment one day

[@pjm4364]

@@rishei4748 thank you for your kindness!

[@CHEEZE369]

I wish you the best in the future

[@table2.0]

I wish you the best, I hope you’re somewhere safe now. I also wish you were the type of person people listened to to actually hear what is in that horrific book, what laws there are in Islamic countries (defacto or otherwise) and why it’s a toxic plague on millions of people..

[@MontycelA]

Good luck bro, I hope you make it 🤞

[@brycelahm1283]

I'm a Christian but despite that, I agree 100% with the assertion that all beliefs should to be subject to criticism. Without criticism, how is it possible to determine what you actually believe? Athiest or religious, I think asking questions about what you believe is the most important thing you can do, and having others present you with difficult questions is a gift

[@puppieslovies]

A gift, sure, but only if you are willing to reexamine them yourself. If not, you'll just be causing yourself and others a lot of frustration.

[@idontwantahandlethough]

I had a really smart priest tell me the same thing once: It's GOOD to question your faith and beliefs, because it helps you figure out precisely what it is that you believe, and by extension what/who matters to you. I was still Catholic at the time, so I asked him "but what if that makes me lose my faith?" and he responded that ultimately, that would be ok because being a good person is more important than being a good christian. Now, that answer was probably technically sacrilegious but I thought it was brilliant lol. After all, I think that's basically the point of spirituality/religion anyway! (I mean I know a lot of religions _say_ that belief in the "right" God is a big deal, but if God is real, and is as loving as he is purported to be, then God would never turn a good person away from heaven just because they didn't believe the right thing... that would not be loving at all. Otherwise, there are a lot of issues, to say the least. For example, what about all the people that existed before Jesus was even born? Are they just royally screwed? Those poor Mesopotamians never even had a chance 😂 ) edit: fun fact -- that priest was one of the few married Catholic priests on earth! He was a Lutheran priest, realized he wanted to be Catholic but also really loved his wife, so he had to get permission from the Pope lol. Kinda weird they make exceptions for that, but I'm glad they do!

[@Dragonmoon98]

I am a firm believer that shielding oneself from criticism to try to cling to a faith of an individually weak foundation is among the more stark forms of stagnation as a person.

[@Gladdig]

​@@idontwantahandlethoughI'm a convert to Catholicism. It's actually standard to offer protestant converts that are already married, but feel the call to become priests, to be married priests. The prohibition of marriage for priests is not a moral issue, but a pragmatic issue, so there's really no contradiction.

[@gptgod]

@@Dragonmoon98Agreed and that pertains to atheists as well.

[@mollyclemenceau3689]

In first grade a girl who heard that my family wasn’t religious came up to me at recess and said/yelled “Do u know who made the world, these classrooms, everything? God! My grandma didn’t believe in God and now she’s down under, burning and screaming, but nobody can hear her! You’re gonna end up like her!” and i cried lol. It especially sucked bc i already feared that my family and i were going to hell due to being brought up surrounded (it felt like) by christianity

[@mechaman3998]

Yeah this is what religion does

[@caidenbond1988]

Ahh what ‘love’ god shows us humans :) I hope you’re better she sounds like an absolute...

[@caidenbond1988]

@My Brand oh I thought she was older than OP

[@Vixey_Starr]

r/thathappened I'm sorry, but what 6 year old would go around saying that, pfft.

[@Thebigcoffee]

@@Vixey_Starr it's really possible tho- I have legit seen kids up to least 11 years old tell people that

[@UltimateBargains]

People deserve respect until they prove otherwise. Ideas deserve no respect ever. Ideas are not people. Religion is an idea, subject to debate, ridicule, and falsifiability.

[@theultimatereductionist7592]

Obviously.

[@uchihaitachifan00666]

To say a religion is just an idea is wrong. To a non believer like myself maybe, but a religion becomes a part of a person it effects how they thing move and act if i say i hate the religion of Islam i might as well be saying to any believers i hate how you think and live your life. To believers there is no room for debate ridicule or fallibility.

[@ramlethal1171]

@@uchihaitachifan00666 How deeply their beliefs are has little to do with responsibility on my part, other than showing them the same courtesy I would show anyone else. Religion as a social weapon doesn't impress me.

[@Gogglesofkrome]

respect is earned, not given. you're utterly naive if you openly believe that every other person you meet has the intent of respect when it comes to interacting with you if only because you can't help it.

[@CandidDate]

How are you to respect someone's actions if you are not privy to their intentions? If a Christian helps an old lady across the road, maybe that person wasn't trying to get into heaven but just being a decent human being. And if they were just being a decent human being and you witnessed them helping someone and thought, "they're just trying to get to heaven," that is a projected meaning, not the real intention. Next time you have a need of help, and there's no one to help you, consider yourself unlucky, not damned to hell.

[@immortalfrieza]

People forget, or maybe just never learned in the first place, that respect is earned, not intrinsic. It doesn't matter if you're a peasant, a doctor, a police officer, a soldier, a senator, a king, a president, etc. you must earn respect with your every action and word. Respect isn't about *what* you are, respect is about *WHO* you are. This includes respecting a belief. It doesn't matter if it's a belief in the Christian God or you genuinely believe in a god someone just made up 5 seconds ago, that belief has to stand up to the facts or it isn't deserving of respect.

[@Groggle7141]

Respect is different than admirable.

[@thunderspark1536]

​@@Groggle7141If you admire someone just because they hold a position of power over you, you're very liable to be convinced to do terrible things in the name of that being. Actions should always be judged first and foremost.

[@FreedomIII]

There are two types of respect. Respect as a person (basic human respect) which we must give to everyone and respect as an authority which must be earned by exhibiting expertise in a field or knowledge or skill. You'll find people that use the phrase "you don't respect me so I won't respect you" to actually mean "you don't respect me as an authority so I won't respect you as a human".

[@prettygoodpootis5133]

​@@FreedomIIIWell said!

[@theymockedjesusalso]

I'd rather not be respected then go to hell.

[@Dragonmoon98]

Without ability to criticize beliefs, we risk leaving people trapped in the bronze age, where they may risk corporal punishment for not bowing and groveling to an unseen narcissist. Not criticizing can also lead to personal stagnation, and even death.

[@damianjblack]

Technically most Bronze Age religions were polytheistic, ritual-based (as opposed to doctrinal or scriptural based) religions which were specific to particular cultures and/or states. And very few had punishments for NOT believing. After all, it would be really dumb for an Egyptian whose favoured god was Ptah, to punish a Hathor devotee for not worshipping Ptah. Religious based persecution only seems to start when scriptural doctrines, and the belief that 'my god(s) is/are the ONLY god(s)' enter the equation.

[@SAR-nj1pz]

This guy’s ability to articulate his deep thoughts so clearly is such an incredible talent

[@HoratioKJV]

Not really when he's had hours to piece together his sophistry/opinions and asserts them like they're fact.

[@NotSoSerious69420]

@@HoratioKJV I know you THINK people challenging you is them stating something as fact but the adults are talking and you should take childish arguments to the short table.

[@HoratioKJV]

@@NotSoSerious69420 Having childish arguments was on your mind first, it is likely your insecurity. How would you know if anything he said challenges my beliefs? You can't read minds, you twit.

[@anasmohamed6013]

@@NotSoSerious69420 come on a child can think of a better reply than that, the guy is stating his opinions as fact same as religious people which makes him as bad as them.

[@NotSoSerious69420]

@@anasmohamed6013 if you’re unable to see the difference between this guy and religious people, I’m sorry, but you’re not very smart. Stating something ≠ implying it’s a fact. He just states stuff never implies it’s factual in fact never implies much of anything, gives you the information and his own personal conclusions but it’s ultimately up to you.

[@kimberlykenyon9440]

“You should respect my beliefs” respect mine then “Why won’t you shut up about your religion?” shut up about yours What goes around comes around.

[@kimberlykenyon9440]

Jan Sitkowski good for you for keeping your nose where it belongs but just because you don’t do something doesn’t mean you are the norm for your group. There are street preachers who literally make it their job to yell at people, who just want to live their lives without persecution, claiming that they themselves are being persecuted. This is no straw man, I’ve heard this from people in real life as well on KZbin.

[@kimberlykenyon9440]

Jan Sitkowski that isn’t a strawman, I’ll admit I am making a huge generalization but it isn’t a strawman. A strawman is when you purposefully build the argument of the other side poorly and proceed to knock it down

[@kimberlykenyon9440]

Jan Sitkowski I agree that we need mutual respect but most Christians I’ve encountered (school in the south can be considered a hell for non-straight non-Christian students) are staunchly against your sentiments going out of their way to call gays fags, “you’re going to hell” and the like. As you said, winners write the history books, but it can also be said about the loudest part of a group doesn’t necessarily have to be the biggest, the loudest Christians tend to not be kind and are getting more attention than they should. I’m sorry for any information I get wrong or logical fallacies I’ve used, I generally don’t use rhetorical devices or have arguments

[@kimberlykenyon9440]

Jan Sitkowski I live in America, home of the idiots, and have more experience with their brand of Christianity. I'm sorry for any projection of any American issues on you, it is interesting to hear about differences in these sorts of things between countries.

[@Cheezmonka]

@Jan Sitkowski Polish Catholicism is pretty blatantly bigoted here in the states where there is much cultural and racial diversity. My girlfriend's family has attended a mostly Polish Catholic church for years and years and even they are treated like they don't belong because they're not Polish like most of the others that attend.

[@EmyrianMusic]

I haven't watched your channel in years. Not because I don't love your content, but I think KZbin just fell out of my bandwidth. This video just came up in my recommended videos, immediately watched it, and was immediately reminded of how important your content was in my early 20s in deconverting from Christianity. instruction manual for life was like a final blow to a crack that had been forming in my belief for years, and literally brought me to tears, and atheism as congruence and transition to atheism helped solidify my thoughts and identify the processes occuring within my mind. I know this video is years old, but I saw that you're still coming out with content, and that makes me incredibly happy.

[@faevara]

How many people come into these comments hoping for a good argument, and instead open their mind farther. This is a great video.

[@gobzanuff5078]

15:11 A good person doesn't need heaven to do good... They simply do..

[@TheraminTrees]

Well said.

[@azmhyr]

And what makes you think you are “good”?

[@azmhyr]

@@blazecaller8486 How do you realize that? Who tells you what is right and wrong?

@@azmhyr : we have this thing called 'a conscience' It's what primarily dtove me away from religion

[@larsswig912]

@@azmhyr all humans inherently know the basics of right and wrong. It's human nature.

[@elizabethgrey6040]

You don’t need to respect someone’s beliefs unconditionally to respect them as a human and respect what is important to them.

[@mascotwithadinosaur9353]

Yes!

[@soonsuicidal]

I am confused.

[@mascotwithadinosaur9353]

@@soonsuicidal You respect the person, not their opinion. If someone's belief system can be dangerous or is flawed and you see holes in it, it's okay to point that out. It's not disrespectful to let someone know when they are wrong

[@No-cg9kj]

I don't have to respect them as a human either lol. Our species is garbage.

[@Humanaut.]

The last part of your sentence muddled your statement.

[@Anita_Dick]

Respect believers, not beliefs. Beliefs should always put to question

[@onuru.100]

thank you for this. I have been recovering from the abuse of my muslim family for years and, with your help, I can finally see that I am not a monster for refusing to blindly follow their ideals.

[@rosalinddavies8466]

I found some Christians will not accept any Criticism but are very quick to criticise Islam for example. Very one sided.

[@deus_ex_machina_]

Which is especially strange considering they're more similar than different...

[@UmbraHand]

Matricx700 They are both Abrahamic religions and command a bunch of things, like advocating for Slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46). There a radical Christian groups in the Congo which are pretty much Christian Al Queda

[@strayorion2031]

When I see people laughing that islam believiers trying to make islam pro lgbt+ and pro feminism I just think they hypocrites because that's exactly how christians look like when they try to do that

[@mabros26]

couldnt agree with you more, considering that atheism is a bigger threat to christianity than islam is. but christians simply do not have the balls to criticise athiesm, you know why? because science is completely logical. christians have nothing to criticise about atheism.

[@username-tp6dq]

Those people are so retched they don't deserve to be spoken to or about

[@qa5038]

Favourite quote of all time now: "No authority is beyond ridicule."

[@johnmccrae2932]

It may seem kind of random, but this sentiment reminds me of a quote from God and The State by Michael Bakunin (An antitheist from the late 19th century). "Does it follow that I reject all authority? Far from me such a thought. In the matter of boots, I refer to the authority of the bootmaker; concerning houses, canals, or railroads, I consult that of the architect or engineer. For such or such special knowledge I apply to such or such a savant. But I allow neither the bootmaker nor the architect nor the savant to impose his authority upon me. I listen to them freely and with all the respect merited by their intelligence, their character, their knowledge, reserving always my incontestable right of criticism and censure. I do not content myself with consulting authority in any special branch; I consult several; I compare their opinions, and choose that which seems to me the soundest. But I recognize no infallible authority, even in special questions; consequently, whatever respect I may have for the honesty and the sincerity of such or such an individual, I have no absolute faith in any person. Such a faith would be fatal to my reason, to my liberty, and even to the success of my undertakings; it would immediately transform me into a stupid slave, an instrument of the will and interests of others."

[@juicebox9465]

@@johnmccrae2932 Based Anarchist

[@johnmccrae2932]

@@juicebox9465 Thanks lmao. I think this one is second only to "If God really existed, it would be necessary to abolish him."

[@hainleysimpson1507]

@@johnmccrae2932 You mean make extinct.

[@Longtack55]

I formerly had an occupation that had "high authority" and learned much from a dude saying "Dave, I don't give a fuck what you think."

[@Zaire82]

It's funny that religion only works as long as you never question it until its too late. I attended several religious schools as a young kid and they'd have you singing hymns and attending church. I _was_ a Christian until I was around 7-8. Then I regurgitated some crap I heard about rainbows being God's gift to my mum and she explained what they really were, and I just ended up questioning everything else too. Soon I realised that nothing I was being taught made sense. I was the only atheist I knew of in the entire school and the other kids kept asking me why I didn't believe. I hate that they resort to indoctrinating children from such young ages. Unfortunately that education is the standard in my country of birth.

[@godgetti]

I wish that was my upbringing. Imagine if your Dad beat you for blasphemy for asking questions about prisms and rainbows, and mum and family still go to church, and insist it's all real, and any questions are met with punishment for backtalking and blasphemy. Now, add in the entire small town community.

[@Zaire82]

@@godgetti I was indeed lucky to have a firmly unreligious family. My extended family is _heavily_ religious, though, as is much of Northern Ireland.

[@piscessoedroen]

yeah this is the problem with religions. they never got updated and new knowledge never got retconned into the teachings. you can weave God into the big bang theory, adam and eve doesn't have to be homo erectus or be the first ape ancestor ever. science can be woven into bible teachings to help expand knowledge and strengthen belief. islamic golden age gave birth to many inventors because they're curious about the world yet their faith to Allah are still as strong

[@VictoriousGardenosaurus]

Anytime a Christian begins hating on the Lgbtq community, I always bring up God's Gift :)

[@robertnelson4235]

Well said. Critical thinking skills and examining one's own thinking are very important. I think encouraging open mindedness, open discussion, and questioning is needed very badly today. Blindly clinging to belief, or simply wanting to win an argument, is used to justify nonsensical thinking. This often leads to dire actions and consequences.

[@anthonymorris5084]

People don't want to know the truth, they just want to be right.

[@sundayoliver3147]

@@anthonymorris5084 And we humans often tend to conflate the two.

[@ZagorTeNayebo]

Back in the day your videos helped me realise I was being abused, I ended my marriage and I am now a happy person in a happy relationship, you helped save my life, thank you

[@TechnicalTactician]

That's amazing dude! (Note: I do not associate dude with gender or sex)

[@krasinmarinov]

​@@TechnicalTacticianbro you seem like you are very afaid to get cancelled

[@TechnicalTactician]

@@krasinmarinov Never underestimate the mob man. I don't want crosses burning in my yard. Cancel culture is like the new kkk.

[@ultron3065]

@@krasinmarinovo, they’re just being respectful, cus some people are sensitive to that stuff. It’s funny how the modern conservative interpretation of sympathy or accommodation is “woke” or “trying to avoid cancel culture,” and how it’s infected the minds of normies and even many non-conservatives. I will admit that there is a kind of terrible “pile-on” culture on social media, but “cancel culture” in the way you probably mean doesn’t exist.

[@krasinmarinov]

@@ultron3065 yea you right

[@outorii4659]

I used to date a Christian and it’s a huge issue that so much of their identity is entangled with their religion that is seems they just can’t live without it. It made me realize that, at least in my case, atheists aren’t compatible with Christians in relationships because you fundamentally disagree on your sense of reality and therefore the logic or morality you use to make decisions. I specifically remember him saying he’s never had to question his morality, because it’s all in the Bible, and yet he would still pick and choose what parts of the Bible to overlook in order to make Christianity more palatable in modern society.

[@nerysghemor5781]

Funny enough as a Christian I would actually agree that a fundamental difference in perception of reality and decision-making would make a relationship fall apart...not to mention, how do you raise your children? That's a pretty major decision. I'd guess where both of us agree is that one shouldn't rush into a relationship without carefully examining those things and considering what the fallout down the line would be.

[@and.me_7390]

So what are atheist morals grounded on? Literally on the „Zeitgeist“. What is true and moral today can be wrong and immoral in 30 years. And most atheists aren‘t questioning their morals for the time being either. Even though atheists can‘t stop to emphasize they are more logical or closer to science, they really aren‘t.

[@Kevin_the_Caveman]

Beliefs are an interesting thing. Even when you KNOW they're false, they have a way of sticking with you. Like a gut feeling that your capacity for reason isn't right... Something unconscious within you WANTS to believe. Beliefs, I think, answer a need within one's personality, they're constitutive of one's worldview. I thought I didn't have any irrational beliefs for the longest time, until after a lot of work on myself I realised that what was making me feel recurring emotional unease and anxiety were, in fact, false beliefs about myself undermining my self-confidence. And even after realising that, it took me a while to get rid of that, something within me always went "maybe I really AM worthless"

[@chewy99.]

@@nerysghemor5781 Yeah. I wouldn’t want to have a spouse that discourages or stops our kid from going to church or receiving baptism or the other sacraments. That is if I/we would decide to have one at all. And when it comes to marriage I’d feel it wrong to get married without a priest.

[@ummyeah4397]

This is exactly why i will never date a religious person. Not out of hate or discrimination, but how could we possibly share a life that we perceive in such a different way?

[@sulaimation6253]

As a Muslim... You don't have to respect my beliefs and I don't have to respect yours. We shouldn't have to respect that which we disagree with, but we can respect those who hold those beliefs.

[@slimkid978]

very true. ideas should be criticized, but not the person

[@TakezoMushashi]

​@@slimkid978becomes impossible when people identify personally with their beliefs. You'll realise that this attitude doesn't work when people become more extreme.

[@isauthentic9280]

human biases will inevitably cause prejudice

[@swiitmlk]

when i first find out there were 3 Billion people who believed i should be killed for being an atheist and when i said "you all crazy" they replied with "hey respect my beliefs!". this is as if a murder said "you will die" and you say "i am innocent what did i do?" they reply with "hey respect me" respect someone who is going to kill me?

[@squeaky1963]

All beliefs should be challenged. No one should have a free pass just because they're afraid to prove their point

[@arcturus4762]

This.

[@bob2k375]

God is real and the big bang is rubbish

[@cre4ture101]

Paganism is pretty chill, well from what I've researched so far.

[@Ju-lz1ug]

@@bob2k375 prove it

[@bob2k375]

@@Ju-lz1ug Bruh I was atheist too , But if you really look into science especially Biology you will see how perfectly designed it is.

[@arturiter]

I don’t automatically respect religious people just because they are religious. However, I also don’t automatically disrespect them.

[@tizamira]

@densch123 At the same time, to disrespect a person for one part of their personality is pretty iffy innit? A christian guy can be kind and respectful and not try to convert you, while an atheist can be a cunt. There's a lot more to take into account than just belief when you're judging how much you should respect someone

[@robmaule4025]

I tend to lose some respect I would otherwise have had for someone as a result of their religious beliefs... it is hard to take someone seriously if they are a committed believer in something so unbelievable.

[@aeircrown7994]

densch123 this comment right here is the reason why religious people rather be with a imaginary but at least mindful one than a bit of a judgmental asshole like this.

[@nitrogenbubbles4555]

@densch123 what the FUCK does pedophilia have to do with that? In what way is believing in a God, ANYWAY at ALL comparable to pedophilia? Explain that to me. On another note, believing in a god and believing in a floating sausage are not comparable, science does not disprove the existence of a god, but it sure as hell disproves the existence of a flying sausage or whatever the hell you are on about. Science says NOTHING about the supernatural, period, it does not disporve or prove anything about divinity or existence of a god. And if science truelly does disprove the existence of God, how about you, idk, show some examples of principles of science that dosprove the existence of a God, considering you're the one making the claim here.

[@luxxers]

densch123 That has nothing to do with the religion though uwu.

[@spyshead6217]

I’m so glad that someone had the bravery 7 years ago to say what I’m sure everyone else was thinking. I just wish more stuff like this was up for discussion.

[@onexonesie]

Religious people are okay with eternal torture for simply not believing what they believe, but will scoff at the death penalty for rapists, murderers, child molesters and thieves.

[@therealgerbreen]

Every video of yours that I watch, I find myself thinking, “that’s exactly what I want to say”. I wish I had the ability to express these realities as clearly as you do. Thank you.

[@schnitzelberry]

Same dude. I'm so good at explaining this to the mirror in words that aren't even real but when I try to verbalize it to theists, they start shouting before I even get the chance and I mainly just forget what I'm talking about.

[@warjunkie8242]

I feel the same way sir

[@sarahhawke5729]

@@schnitzelberry that's because they fear their pipe dreams collapse on them

[@stale.baguette]

ikr he has my exact same ideology lmao

[@Fragor100]

That's work right there

[@t.n.patronis4098]

Saying “I respect your beliefs,” has always been a way for me to curtly say, “It’s not my place nor interest to change your mind and I want to diffuse what could easily become an unnecessary and exhausting verbal conflict,”. People are welcome to believe whatever they want so long as they don’t push it onto me.

[@abc-ju5oq]

so kind of like 'agree to disagree'?

[@based_mediumchungus1788]

people are NOT allowed to believe what they want. there is no god. source: the size of my 🅱enis

[@jamessaunders2559]

@@abc-ju5oq use instead, the monotheistic scripture as a starting point to our own beliefs and purposely challenge them with others so an interpersonal and uniform faith can be made that’s more reasonable than questionable. Do this with every religion and you can have a faith/belief system that is grounded to reality; everyday practices that guide us and others. Applying our faith, but not implying it, so it can also be borrowed and practiced by others. A much easier and simpler way of doing things that goes back to the formation of beliefs, back to the Ice Ages. We are not the pinnacle of human achievement. We haven’t used rocks to level 10 ton stone pieces into a perfectly levelled road. We have not made residential districts on hills using 1000’s of tons of volcanic basalt rock columns. We have not made airtight masonry that weighs as much as Main Battle Tanks. We haven’t built any monuments close to or larger than the dimensions of 30 football fields (squared). People before us have done all of these feats I speak of hundreds or thousands of years ago. What is to say we should respect our history if our history is wrong? BTW those feats all come from different continents. 😂

[@mrosskne]

Defuse. Not diffuse.

[@dudu28r81]

@@mrosskne They actually both work in this situation

[@user-vf2rj7lx8m]

I really admire the amount of rational thought you put into this video. I've always had a problem with the idea of letting people say reality is a certain way and refusing to defend it. As a Christian, I don't believe that the advancement of knowledge and human survival are the most important goals to work towards, but you have definitely raised some questions for me about I would go about raising children. You've also inspired me to really start looking into the apologetics of my faith. Thank you!

[@godgetti]

This video cannot have enough views, likes and comments. It is the very BEST KZbin has offered me on the subject. Why did I not find it sooner?

[@vivianriver6450]

A preacher says to a computer scientist: "You will go to hell when you die unless you accept Jesus Christ!" The computer scientist responds: "Don't you know that goto statements are bad programming practice?!"

[@wolf1066]

As a computer programmer, I had to like that comment.

[@differentbutsimilar7893]

@John Doe Oh my god another one. You can't deny, they can create nightmares. I swear, half of what you learn of ti-basic is all of the ways to never have to use a goto statement.

[@differentbutsimilar7893]

@John Doe I never said you did! I was just recounting when I first discovered a memory leak, before I knew what they were. And then sifting through incomprehensible code that you have to jump across constantly to understand to find the open block. Or how just having a long enough program and making it go far enough through the code to get to the called lbl that it bogs the whole thing down... What can I say... I was 12, they handed me this crazy lookin thing that does a bunch of stuff and I figured "Let's make it do ALL of the things!" XD I'm surprised I remember. But as soon as I saw 'goto' it shot me back in time almost 20 years. I almost quit. And then I got some shooter game compiled in assembly... and tried again to replicate some parts of it in basic. And that's when I realized I had to learn about the magic of assembly. And then... I longed for the simple days of ducking goto's lol

[@roadent217]

To be pedantic, the "unless" keyword actually turns it into an IF statement: IF(!Accept_Jesus_Christ) THEN Hell();

[@carlosrangel7134]

@Ska Noob in programming, but goto is a function used in coding, and is pretty much the easiest way to do most things, is the first thing that most people learn and you would be amazed by the amount of stuf that you can do with just goto commands, the thing is, it only works for amateur and really short code, it easily bleeds on to the rest of the commands, mess with the cache, makes the machine work o ton more than needed, is redundant, and there's always a more specific comand for whatever you're trying to do that will do said things several times better and without problems, you can think of it as facebook, has tons of functions in it but there's a better app for almost every single one of them, it's just that they are more focused on a single thing so most people just stick with facebook so they don't have to learn to use each one, even though in the end making facebook work properly is almost as hard if not worse. Long story short, you don't want to hire a programmer that submits their code full of nothing but goto.

[@nicrobe9443]

One issue I always had with the understanding that "Not being part of a religion means you have no moral obligation to be ethical and/or righteous", which is inherently just flawed. Is it truly sincere and righteous if you're being a good person solely because you will be punished otherwise? Or vice versa, are you going through whatever ritual, prayer or action your belief requires just because you're promised a reward at the end? Do we as humans NEED a constant threat of eternal suffering, or a carrot at the end of the stick to be bit more selfless and act with respect to others' right to live?

[@sadboat1657]

Some people, yes

[@sparking023]

This conclusion is the end of the road when you go all the way to ignore the moral obligations of religion. If there isn't an afterlife, if there is no God, and we simply "fade" into a void, then why bother being a good person? As in, what is the root cause for such behavior? You could come from the biological angle and say we humans are social animals and as such the cooperation with other beings is beneficial to our success, personal and as a species. You would naturally help your family, right? But at the same time, we're also competing for resources, even if under new parameters and perspectives. So what reasons do you really have to help someone you don't know? One step further, why do we determine some things are crimes? Why do we all inherently agree (almost all, unfortunately) that taking a life away is wrong? Or abusing a child? Or doing anything that you inherently deem immoral? Where does these rules emerge from? Are they completely arbitrary? If they are, what is stopping us from completely changing them? Once again, you can go down the psychology and sociology roads and say that these are more beneficial to us as a species. Protect the young, preserve life, even if those are not directly related to you. But remove that "arbitrary" standard and you fall back to things like rule of the strongest. The extreme end of this way of thinking usually leads to nihilism, in which there's no point in life but for it to end, and as such, why bother with anything? Not to say you can't live your life selflessly without attributing this behavior to religion. Directly, of course. Many of our unwritten rules come from a distant past where the religion was the law. There are good people outside of the boundaries of faith in whatever religion you may think of. The core of that question, imho, is the source of your morality. There are two famous ideas about the human nature. One says we are inherently evil, and the other say we are inherently good. The Bible says we were made good and perfect, but got corrupted by sin. I won't enter into the part of doing "good deeds" out of fear because that's another discussion altogether, but as for that debate, the point in question is the source of your morality

[@MissCaraMint]

@@sparking023 You are making a mistake of believing that morality is inherently religious. There are lots of different philosophy devoted to trying to define morality. What is good vs what is evil. Honestly I don’t think we will ever reach a true understanding of it. However, this doesn’t mean that we can’t see how acting within certain behavioral norms benefits us. These normas are what we as a society has deemed acceptable behaviour. Considdering humans are very social creatures it is nessecery for us to act in a way that doesn’t just benefit the individual, but also one that benefits the social group. The social group doesn’t benefit from arbitrary killing, nor do you. If arbitrary killing is allowed then we are in danger of being arbitrarily killed, and we don’t want that. So we get together and decide as a group that this type of behaviour is unacceptable. Those are the basics. A lot of rules and prinsiples run on the same lines. We have laws against stealing because I don’t want someone to steal from me, and neither does annyone els. Now along the way ve have developed other characteristics that go together with the characteristics of the social creatures that we are. This is empathy. We have the abillity to immagine what it is like to be in another person’s situation, and to feel their pain to an extent. This helps us build bonds and creat a stronger society. A stranger isn’t just a stranger, but could be us if we werent as luck. We help them because our empathy makes us feel bad when we someone els struggling. This isn’t arbitrary as you claim, but the foundation for why we have built society in the ways that we have. It’s going back to the idea of the puddle looking around and thinking, «oh wow this hole that I exist in must have been made for me. It fits me in exactly the right way, and holds me compleatly.» This puddle is making the mistake of thinking that the hole it is in was made for it, when the reality is that the puddle conformes to the contours of the hole. Same thing with your line of reasoning. You are assuming that our societies where we tend to create the same sets of principals springs from the fact that we all share the same moral, when the reaity is that we all create our societies first and then try to define why we made the rules we did by retroactively fitting morality on to them as an explenation. I mean if we knew morality first then why are we still debating what morality even is millennia after we made these rules? No you don’t need God to explain why we help others in the least.

[@sparking023]

@@MissCaraMint sorry if I didn't make myself completely clear. I didn't mean to say all morality stems from religion, what I was trying to get at is *which source,* if you can call it that, any kind of moral rule comes from. Be it the social contract, or the examples you have laid in here, they all have some sort of reasoning as their basis. But when you exclude God, or any other high power for that matter, from the equation, and being your line of reasoning to the extreme, which I believe I mentioned, you end with what we would consider amoral behavior. If someone is strong enough to take something, why shouldn't they? Yes, this person will most likely make enemies, but what if they can protect themselves. And that doesn't necessarily has to apply on the individual level. Would you take a life to protect your family? Would you undermine one group in favor of other? Why is it that we look down upon the colonialism times where entire nations ruled over others? I agree that to this day we discuss morality and I don't think I've discarded the validity of this discussion or any philosophies regarding it. It wasn't the intention. But often that venue of debate comes to a point where the decisions feel a little arbitrary. Yes, not killing your neighbor is beneficial to your immediate and long term survival and success, and so is cooperation, and other interactions in society, but what is it that makes you extend the same benefit to people who you have nothing to gain from? Is it a form of guaranteeing support in a possible future? My frame of reference is the Bible, and quite often it is the one that gets criticized, and fair enough, let's discuss this. That's why I came here anyway. The main difference between a moral "code" based on a religion and one that is not is basically the source. Point in case, the Bible dictates what is ethical and righteous, and what is foul and evil. You can reach the same conclusions outside of the religion just fine, the same way many people practice charity regardless of them being religious or not. The only difference is how we "justify" them.

[@MissCaraMint]

@@sparking023 No morality is something we have invented to explain behaviour we value. As our understanding of the world and others has improved, our idea of morality has become more complex. In short the sourse of morality is humanity. Not God.

[@thedrawingquill2059]

i feel like to many people forget the paradox of tolerance. to truly tolerate everyone, you can’t tolerate those who are cruel to others.

[@seriouscat2231]

You then need a good definition for cruelty.

[@Damianskull]

​​​@@seriouscat2231Cruelty has a pretty obvious meaning I would say. Its causing intwntional harm to others, by being violent and causing body injury not, but also mental harm, and taking away a persons freedom. Etc. Self defense obviously doesnt count as cruel. Includes being cruel to humans but also being cruel to animals.

[@seriouscat2231]

@@Damianskull, you then need good definitions for mental harm and freedom.

[@originalSiiiN]

​@@seriouscat2231uh-oh... look out, everyone... we got a Skeptic live and in the flesh!!

[@bionicleapple1254]

​@@seriouscat2231enlighten us. Give us your good definitions of mental harm and freedom.

[@feminico2613]

Guys, guys, don't complain about the religious ads. He's getting paid and the advertisers did nothing but waste 5 seconds of our life. That's a small price to pay for viewing his video.

[@AwsomePicklez]

It seems 5 seconds is your limit

[@ArcaneAzmadi]

I've never heard Kath and Kim discussing what they're having for dinner described as religious dogma before...

[@MsJoshisfat]

The world o stop time!!!!! WRYYYYYYYY

[@allyfelii]

Thank you for your wise words, Dio.

[@yassfishy]

marry me, dio

[@sweetkittykat2000]

I tried to explain to a friend of mine in highschool that I was agnostic when she tried to invite me to church. As a former christian, I told her all the problems that I saw apperent in the bible that lead me to my beliefs. Despite bringing up genuine counter points to her beliefs, she finally told me "how can you have morals if you don't believe in anything?" Really, she was just trying to tell me that there was no way I could have morals that actually mean anything if I don't believe in her specific god. It was an extremely manipulative way to try and convince me that I was a bad person and the only way to become good, or gain genuine "morals", was to become christian. It was honestly very insulting and I'm glad I'm not her friend anymore...

[@HeraldOD]

I see this argument often, accusing atheists of not being moral. How would one go about countering it?

[@sweetkittykat2000]

​@@HeraldOD It really depends on if they believe in divine command theory or not. It basically says that god is always good because he himself imparted morality upon humans. Morality is essentially an extension of his nature. or opposed to this theory, god created morality and is above it. He himself does not have to follow moral laws because he is god. (This actually justifies a lot of things that god does in the bible but there aren't a lot of Christians who believe it I've noticed lol) or there's the objectivism theory, which says that wrong and Right exist outside of god and are innate and provable. This basically says that morality is independent from god. I don't remember what the second theory is called, but some people have a psuedo-combination of the second theory and last theory. Some people also think that humans have a divine directive where morals are innately implanted into us by god, which is how many people across societies have overlapping morals regardless of their religion. my ex friend in question believed in the divine command theory, so there really was no way I could justify my morals to her because in her mind, morality was dependent on the existence of her god.

[@HeraldOD]

@@sweetkittykat2000 Thanks for the reply!! this clarifies a lot.

[@reggiestickleback7794]

You sound like a garbage friend

[@lemonqvartz]

@@reggiestickleback7794 ironic.

[@matthiasnguyen1329]

As a Christian, thank you for this! People use religion for very evil and unrighteous purposes and they need to be called out, not respected.

[@darla8896]

my guy this video literally just called you a sadist

[@thesithofearth3617]

​@@darla8896We don't need to be hurt by what people say to us

[@laskurtanceixixii]

​@@thesithofearth3617OK lil bro

[@inezaa]

@@darla8896womp womp

[@SunofYork]

My mother professed to be a christian and sang hymns all day long. When my daughter became "pregnant whilst 'engaged to be married', my mother told my daughter "In my day, girls like you would be kept in a dark cellar, and away from the sight of decent christian people"'. Was my mother trying to procure an abortion by talking to a pregnant woman like that, and upsetting her massively ?

[@jeushi]

your mother was trying to call your daughter a whore and saying she deserved punishment for being such. Whilst not trying to get an abortion she was dehumanizing your daughter because of her pregnancy

[@SunofYork]

@@jeushi That's right... my mother was a typical christian..... they used to burn people alive. I don't trust the honesty/morality/kindness/ logicality of any religious people

[@owo8996]

I'm sorry but I would of suckerpunched that hag then and there, no one talks about my children with such horrid words, I don't give a damn if they're family.

[@sundayoliver3147]

@@jeushi She was dehumanizing her because of her sexual activity, seems to me: pregnancy was just the outward and visible proof of that. I feel sorry that your mother was so warped by her own upbringing that she carried it to your daughter.

[@ignacionadeo1306]

I'll never stop reading this channel's name as The Ramen Trees.

[@zellafae]

Now I can’t unsee it

[@gabrielpokiak6859]

Bruh

[@udith]

You have finally decoded the code!!

[@dazzlingdexter5060]

How else would you read it

[@ramendampfen]

I will never stop being a tree

[@allenhanford]

When I was a kid another kid in our church got terminal cancer. It was awful. He suffered horribly before he died. At one point, just before he passed some women from the church visited his mother to inform her that her son was sick because her husband drank on weekends. This shocking, sadistic behavior was the beginning of the end of my participation in a system that I never thought made sense, anyway.

[@MenacingPerson]

ikr? also pinned comment

[@Keiran19]

What the fuck. I'm sorry

[@Matthiasvd8]

lol imagine what kind of fucked up person believes they're doing the right thing when they do shit like this

[@Ribulose15diphosphat]

So you are either an American Protestant or a Muslim. Every other religion (espicially roman catholics, true (=European) protestants and russian ortodox would also drink during the week and laugh at anyone who claims alcohol were bad..

[@allenhanford]

@@Ribulose15diphosphat what's your point? If they had harassed her about something other than alcohol it would have been reasonable?

[@nicholasdocter4975]

Every topic you talk about is presented so clearly and beautifully. If one stops and truly considers your arguments, I don't see how the statements can be authentically denied. In other words, your voice is that of logic and reason.

[@glek3197]

I I had something like that as an opinion of mine, but never really tried to formulate it in exact words, thank you!

[@echo.romeo.]

Sounds like laziness to me.

[@pabloaguilar578]

It took until quarantine for me to final come to terms that I'm an atheist, but the seeds were sewn when I was a child and my father would openly talk about my loving grandparents being destined for hell simply because they weren't sure whether or not god existed. His own parents. I can't begin to imagine.

[@N0Xa880iUL]

I went from a period of atheism to currently being agnostic. My strategy is to become a theist before dying. That's why I live fairly and cautiously so that I don't die an accidental death.

[@freddy4603]

@@N0Xa880iUL rolling the cosmic dice before death, eh? Better pick a religion that only cares about your character when it's time for you to go. Although what's the point, there are so many religions to pick, not mentioning the ones that don't exist anymore or yet. You're pretty much bound to choose the wrong one, so it makes more sense to just do what you think is good right now.

[@N0Xa880iUL]

@@freddy4603 You're right. I don't know what I'm doing. Life got to me. I'm to focus my efforts on making my life and of those around me better, than think about some unseen outcome.

[@Coleorton7]

@@N0Xa880iUL Pascals Wager

[@astradewoodvale159]

@@N0Xa880iUL You’re strategy is to become theist before dying? What? Lmfao If whatever version of religion you believe in works that way then this really solidified to me that religious folks are nothing more but narcissists. Imagine going to this so-called heaven and meeting a bunch of shitt¥ people who are there because they believe in the billionth version of a god. Sounds like hell to me

[@FirstnameLastname-es1ko]

I will respect anyone’s belief system as long as they don’t pose a danger to anyone, including themselves, they don’t claim some false superiority, they don’t insult anybody else and if the beliefs don’t go against facts. Example of a belief I wouldn’t respect: “Sarah is evil and will go to hell because she wears makeup. Makeup was made by the devil and will turn her unlawful and promiscuous. I am better and more worthy than Sarah because I don’t wear makeup and attend church more often than Sarah.” Example of a belief I would respect: “I believe that there is a higher power, and that there is an afterlife. I believe this because it is a valid possibility that I have faith in and that offers me hope and comfort in my life. My faith also helps me to be a good person and to think more of my actions. I believe that behaving immorally or deliberately and repeatedly causing pain to others means sacrificing your place in this afterlife, or prolongs the time before you may be worthy of entering it” Note that the second list of beliefs is open minded and rational, does not rely on ignoring basic facts, and does not express a view of superiority other than that people who do wrong should face consequences, which is a belief that most people subscribe to (at least in part) anyway. You can still disagree with the second perspective as much as you want, but their beliefs are a whole lot more respectable.

[@FirstnameLastname-es1ko]

@My Brand anti maskers go against the facts, and pose a danger to others, so I don’t respect their beliefs. Reread my comment.

[@revivedsoul1099]

The comparisons was nice. Reminds me of my muslim family esp my sweet grandmom, whos their drinking her tea and bread watching some news and praying when its up. At the end of the world, we all want peace and happiness. It be wrong of me or anyone, to take that beautifully thing away. Even if might not be even truth in the afterlife, people belive in what they belive in. Mby for years or only a month. We never know when is our time, so lets cherish it brothers and sisters. Our ancestors would be disappointed for the mess we did, but aswell proud of how far we have come :) Peace

[@OzCroc]

I will not respect anyone who is stupid enough to believe in religion

[@revivedsoul1099]

@@OzCroc I get you, and i don't respect people who don't like anime. Mby 80% respect but not 100. Man of culture needs to like greatness wherever it from.

[@LarsPallesen]

So you wouldn't be offended if someone believes you deserve to go to hell and suffer eternal torture? Alright, then. How very openminded of you.

[@heuzame6198]

As an atheist some muslims got really mad at me whenever I revealed that I'm a non-believer. Even despite him liking me he couldn't stand the fact that I was atheist calling me immoral, retarded, ignorant and selfish. Another muslim believed that I am incredibly ignorant to not look at the world and see allah in it. He also believes that only Islam is true and the rest are made up. Therefore only muslims should not face hell due to their beliefs. (He was raised up as a catholic) despite this he was cool to me so we just agreed to disagree. Him thinking that ¾ of humanity deserve to face internal torture which no chance of it ever ending, simply because they don't believe in allah, was beyond me.

[@daimon7421]

Lol, the irony that that is soo anti-quranic. I'm no expert in islam, but a great deal of islamic schools of thought accept that "people of the book" (aka christians and jews) and people who don't really know about islam (that means for example if the only contact with the religion is terr0rism) are usually forgiven. Some also hold that people are more closer to Allah than they think so, so they're muslims except in name.

[@heuzame6198]

@@daimon7421 As of now, I actually consider myself to be a Christian

[@vlad_makes_stuff]

I am currently making a science fair and I am talking about the origin of life. I originally wanted to add a disclaimer at the beginning saying that some may find this untrue due to their religeon (I know one person in my class that definitley would do that) And after watching this video I think that I might just remove that section.

[@Insanemembrane93]

I was raised in the JW cult even after a year of being out I'm still trying to get my critical thinking to a good place. This video really helps putting things into perspective.

[@GenerationX1984]

I'm sorry for you. That is a terrible self esteem crushing cult. Only a sick person would invent a religion that prohibits holidays, birthdays, and fun.

[@CoronaryArteryDisease.]

That is not easy. More than anything, find people to be around. Don’t isolate yourself. After being out, you may find great strength in relationships where you can be honestly yourself! You are not alone, and you will find that life will blossom for you if you continue to be honest

[@Silver77cyn]

I’m currently escaping, and these videos help me as well.

[@aazhie]

There are a lot of really meaningful ex JWs making KZbin content, it's really inspiring to see the individual stories and how they have grown and changed so much

[@Insanemembrane93]

@@Silver77cyn awesome it's well worth it . Really sustain some bruises along the way emotionally but freedom is definitely the true Paradise .

[@mckennadaley3793]

When I was little I was Catholic, my parents were atheists but they believed it was wrong to impose any beliefs on me. So from friends and extended family, I was pushed to be catholic, I was committed to it, I loved god. When I was around 12 I started to realize that I was not straight. I was horrified because no matter how good I had been that meant I was going to hell. I went through a rebellious phase because "If I'm going to hell might as well earn it". Now I'm an atheist I still keep TRADITIONS that I like such as Christmas and even praying before I eat but instead of thanking god just acknowledge being thankful. If there is a god and an afterlife there is no way to know about it for sure, I will cross that bridge when I come to it. I'm not gonna make this life hell in hopes that in an afterlife that may or may not exist I will have favorable treatment.

[@proletar1660]

This world could have been better if religious people embraced and welcomed LGBT people into their religions. God is for everyone. Not all gays go to hell.

[@williamle1884]

@@proletar1660 this argument goes two ways, your belief and my own belief that the same would apply if religion never existed in the first place. Even if you feel offended by this, the idea would be true. The deeper idea in all of this is while this is a specific example of being gay, you could replace any relatively minor sin that is actively ridiculed by religion, and to suggest that religion should simply just tolerate them now rather than recognizing that this shouldve never happened in the first place and yet religion has historically unfairly ostracized those who act in these ways and it would be more efficient to suggest that religion should not and shouldve not existed rather than religion being more tolerant, especially so when multiple religions do this, not just yours.

[@hoboking8398]

Sorry to hear about your loss of faith. However, we still pray. Know, God has grace for homosexuals, as he does for all people who sin as you, and for us (trust, you are no special case among a world of thieving men). This said, homosexual behavior is not something our Lord encourages (like every other sin that the "straight" still commit). Only, to be right in your spirit, serve your humanity as best you can in spite of your faults. For, as humans we are defined less by our sins and more by how we repent for them. God bless you

[@proletar1660]

@@hoboking8398 Well-said!

[@Demicleas]

You won't be condemned to damnation for being gay, as long as you stay on a righteous path you will be welcomed into heaven.

[@fucklb]

as an actual christian who prays a lot, i like the fact you're challenging me to think. respect

[@seriouscat2231]

I'm reading Summa Theologiae and I feel suitably challenged by it.

[@gardenshed6043]

I think we should respect people’s faiths. Not necessarily their beliefs. I am trans. Some people’s belief is that I am an affront to nature and that the world would be better off if I killed myself. That is a not a belief I can respect. But I can respect someone’s faith in a God or Gods, regardless of what the God or Gods supposedly teaches. Because to me, faith stems from hope. And hope to me is the most powerful feeling of all. Even if it’s unfounded, the strength of will that can be borne from hope I believe is something to emulate. I believe that in the hardest times, the ones who can keep hope will last the longest.

[@TransNobody]

SAME

[@JKR9488]

If we waited until people were in their late teens or twenties before we told them about religion, I imagine there would be a lot more atheists

[@MetalGaara]

YES

[@filthystaxplayer7197]

@BRITISH MAN COLONIZE this seems to imply that once people have developed their critical thinking skills they see religion for what it is.

[@filthystaxplayer7197]

@Max Sharpe fair point, the generalisation I made was too far reaching. I would still suggest that for every adult joining religion later in life there are more who leave it, but I have no actual proof outside my life experiences, which are no more valid than anyone elses.

[@doctorwhy6504]

I would imagine we could get some hints of an answer from some of the European countries as they have slow down some religious indoctrination. My very personal experience is that it just may be so. I was indoctrinated into catholicism and it took a long time to get rid it. My wife comes from an Atheist family. We decided not to bring our children into Religion and be as truthful as possible. Science has been a big theme for us. What I discovered was how much christianism has penetrated our public schools, it's nearly in everything that has to do with the English language and my kids had no concept of any of it. They had no clue whatsoever about Noah, the pope, the talking snake, the bible, and on and on. They would ask question and I would tell them what the stories were, treated as mythology. Once I related the stories, they were always baffled! many times laughing in disbelief. One day my teenager daughter asked me about this Jesus birth thing. (Both of my kids have been schooled in sexual education without religious entanglements) I started explaining the story and then, she, suddenly had enough, her eyes were wide opened in disbelief; she rolled her eyes like I never seen before and just walked out on me. No thanks, no thanks she uttered as she walk out. She has refused to talk about it, I would really like to know why the reaction. I believe, without basis, that when you bring up young minds early into Science, into the reality of the natural world, into facts of the factual kind (not the alternative one), perhaps there are aspects to the natural world that just make common sense and that to convince you of an insane proposition you may need more than just a ludicrous story. I cannot say that my kids will not be religious one day, what I can say is that it would be very surprising and if they do, it will not be because their parents indoctrinate them.

[@filthystaxplayer7197]

@@doctorwhy6504 I was schooled in Ireland and it's very difficult to get a secular education over here. Most every school teaches Catholicism, but the funny thing is that it doesn't have the same pervasiveness as it used to, despite that, and I think it's because parents don't force it anymore (mine didn't)

[@Varrik159]

There are three things to take into consideration when it comes to believing things: 1) The belief 2) The believer 3) The right to believe And whether or not respect is due to these things boils down to simply: 1) Never 2) Sometimes 3) Always

[@BitchChill]

That's right

[@bencrossley647]

If you should never respect the belief, why would you want the right to belief?

[@NorthernWind0]

@@bencrossley647 Because the right to believe is important regardless of the belief in question. I support people's right to believe genocide is a proper path, so long as they're not hurting anyone. No one has the right to limit thought.

[@bencrossley647]

Northern Wind Why is it important?

[@NorthernWind0]

@@bencrossley647 because without freedom of thought no ideas can be challenged, all ideas must be challenged or you wind up with dogma. That's just the baseline, of course.

[@tigergaj]

I don't remember which video of yours I saw that was first but I just wanted to comment and thank you for this. When I was just starting my deconstruction and really questioning my Christianity, I vaguely remember looking up something about if religion is bad. I'm eternally thankful for these videos and it still feels so liberating and vindicating to hear this. A great comfort to my younger self.

[@gibbogle]

When our daughter was about 8 a boy at school asked her if she believed in God. She said "No" and he said "I'm going to beat you up." A true Christian.

[@derDeutsche-mh2zj]

Sounds like my cousin.

[@user-dx9my1en2d]

thats not a Christian thing to do, thats just an immature kid

[@gibbogle]

@@user-dx9my1en2d He was no doubt echoing his "Christian" parents.

[@achangedman20]

hh

[@amymason156]

Not fair. Should have picked on someone his own size and told them his god could beat up their god. Then they could arrange for a time and place and come up with excuses for why they were both such chickens.

[@ian2083]

“It is impious to say, ‘I respect every religion.’ This is as much as to say: I respect the devil as much as God, vice as much as virtue, falsehood as much as truth, dishonesty as much as honesty, Hell as much as Heaven.” - Fr. Michael Müller

[@ErickeTR]

Catholic truth, timeless as always.

[@SqwarkParrotSpittingFeathers]

No angels, no Jesus, no god or god's, no Yahweh. Christian "faith" is defined as belief with no evidence. Religious faith is vacuous and for the gullible. But, even if faith was at all a reliable pathway to the truth - which it is not - any faith based truth is undermined by the book on which the faith is founded. The book is ridiculous, often badly written, sometimes well, but obviously, fiction. Genesis creation is obviously wrong from the very first line and is based upon other Middle Eastern myths of the time. Life on Earth before the sun? Earth created at the same time as the heavens, "In the beginning", Really? The Earth was formed 4.6 billion years ago, the heavens, 13.8 billion. The Israeli government sent archeologists to find evidence of the Exodus, and couldn't. No record of Mosses or a large Hebrew presence in Egypt at the time. Was Mosses a mythical creation? It looks like it. The most important Jewish documents, the ten commandments, destroyed by an incompetent god, who didn't ensure their preservation. It's all fiction. Apparently, not until their god told them not to murder/kill, did the Jews know it was wrong. And yet the ten commandments are revered as the ultimate morality. What nonsense. No Egyptian record of Joseph and the famine. Noah's flood wasn't noticed by the Egyptians and Chinese, that you'd have thought would have been recorded. The Egyptians and Chinese carried on their cultural practices as before. The Chinese never looked like Middle Eastern immigrants and their unique writing endured when they should have been wiped out. And, there is no evidence whatsoever of the children of Noah, filling the world. We homo sapiens are out of Africa, with finds of our species dating back 230,000 years. Not the 6,000 the bible alludes to. The line of Pharaohs continued. Indeed, at the time of the global flood the three great pyramids of Gaza where being built either side of and during the alleged time of the flood, and yet, construction was not interrupted and no skills lost, despite everyone drowning. Is that because it's all a fiction? And, mummification was not interrupted and skills were not lost by the flooding and the almost complete extermination of life. It's as if it's all been made up, god and all. And, after witnessing the flood and allegedly filling the rest of the empty Earth, with lands empty of people, there is no evidence they took their Yahweh religion, customs, culture or language with them and replaced the Egyptian gods or the South American gods of the Inca and Aztec civilisations with Yahweh. And, Yahweh didn't make it as near as India, where they had their own religious practices. Confucius, in China, predated Jesus, and the Yahweh god never made an appearance in China at all. The whole bible appears to be a fiction, creating a god that was similar to, but more powerful than adjacent Middle Eastern gods. A case of my dad's bigger than your dad mentality. But it's fake. Again, the bible is inconsistent with our knowledge of the world but, can be seen to have been a fiction composed by a purely Earth based, local to the Middle East, ignorant tribe. In Genesis there was water without the sun. There was day and night without the sun. The musings of an ignorant tribe who didn't have access to a real god, clearly. Adam and Eve and their children would have had to have had an incestuous relationship to reproduce. And, this story contradicts the fossil record, the DNA record and, the proven evolutionary record. Especially fossils such a australopithecus afarentis, 3.2 million years ago, homo-erectus, 2 million years in existence, and neandathal, some 500,000 years on this planet, and many others. Indeed, the DNA record also contradicts the Noah bottleneck of human and animal genetic diversity. Adam and Eve's creation is told twice and differently. There is no Egyptian record of the wiping out of the chasing army when the Red Sea parted. No one can tell us in what year the son of god was crucified or born with any certainty. No independent reports of the dead rising up and walking about. I think every scribe and religious committee would have recorded such a demonic miracle. But, nothing. Because it was a fiction, like the rest of the book, like the god at its centre. There was no census in any year that Jesus was likely born, another fiction. The closest census was in 6 AD/CE, ten years after the death of Herod the Great, who was meant to have been alive, hunting down kids to kill. Good to know that god couldn't think of any method of keeping Jesus safe, for example, by stopping the three kings from telling Herod about a new king of the Jews. Blood thirsty story, but, it's not true. Helps to give Christians a persecution complex. Jesus's visit to Herod Antipas was inserted by a later gospel writer to justify how a poor hated Jewish criminal called Jesus allegedly received a purple cloak, normally so expensive that no person receiving a death sentence would have been given an expensive cloak just to be ruined, to what any Roman would have considered a low life. A low life Jew made to look like a king bigging himself up for his gullible followers. But, it's all fiction. The Barabus character was placed in the story to symbolise a scapegoat analogy and to distance the new Jewish sect from the old Jewish fanatics who were at war with Rome. Even the name Barabbus was fictional and clearly meant to reinforce the blood sacrifice narrative. Barabbus means, son of the teacher, or, son of the father. Both the same type, Barabbus and Jesus, both sons of the father. But, the Jews blood sacrificed the good goat and set the bad goat free. So that god could sacrifice himself to himself to forgive the sin he created in the Garden of Eden. Allegedly. And, there is no record of such a prisoner freedom release thing by Pilot. Pilot was a brutal governor, he wouldn't have entertained being told who to release by these terrible Jews. The gospels were written to distance the new Christian Jews from the Jews who were in rebellion against Rome. The Christians blamed the Jews for the death of their god son, exclaiming that they had nothing to do with the Jewish murderers who were not only against Rome but against the Christians as well. That stitch up led to thousands of years of resentment against the Jews and ultimately to the deaths of 6 million Jews by the Catholic Hitler and supported by the Pope at the time. Jesus's journey to Bethlehem and back is inconsistent between the gospels. The town of Nazareth didn't exist. It was an incorrect translation of Nazarene, which means something like chosen one. It was Constantine's wife who traveled to Judea to find Nazareth and found what she exclaimed to be Nazareth and plonked a church on the site. That was 300 years later, not in the time of this Jesus. There are many major inconsistencies in the gospels, especially regarding the resurrection. No one recorded the crucifixion at the time of Jesus. The religious can't even pin down the year. The number of witnesses changes between the gospels. Judas was a made up person who name is meant to be a stand in for Jews: Judah. As was Jesus's trial that was meant by the gospel writers to blame the Jews for the death of a mythical Jesus so as to distance the bad, Roman hating Jews, from the new Christian sect, so some new wave Christian Jews could escape from the wrath of Rome. It was a political narrative. And, people say that the New Testament has a message of love. It doesn't. The first gospel was written in about 70 AD/CE, when Rome was furious with the constant Jewish rebellions, ending with the complete destruction of the Temple in 70 AD/CE and the Roman obliteration of the radicals at Masala. The gospels were a means of distancing the Jews who wanted out from the Jews who were fighting the Romans. It was a political survival treaty. The story of a virgin birth is nonsense. And later, Mary seems to forget in the gospels she had been told her son was a god son. The virgin birth was not uncommon at this time for gods from other cultures. No one during the life of Jesus recorded his existence. The gospels were written 40-100 years post the alleged death of this Jesus. Jesus's death, is not believable, which, if it happened at all or, he existed at all, was also a farce, as he would only have been up on the cross for about 9 hours, not long enough to die from crucifixion as it was designed to cause a long painful death. Usually taking as much a five days. No independent record of the star of Bethlehem. Nowhere. No record of the sky darkening over the whole Earth for three hours, not in Rome, Athens, Babylon, Persia, Egypt or China. No one has proved god actually exists. Prayer works no better than random chance. The god of love will send most people to hell. Especially those with any wealth. Today, in the West most people are wealthy compared to most in the ancient Middle East. Jesus, apparently, to his followers told them to sell everything and not bother with plans as he was soon returning to bring heaven to Earth. Yet, we are still waiting, two thousand years later. I think he's not coming? The Earth is not the centre of the solar system. The solar system is in a spiral arm of one of trillions of similar galaxies in the observable universe. Given the above, and very much more, the bible is completely flawed. "faith" without evidence is, completely undermined by the evidence. If the bible doesn't stand up to even passing scrutiny, then it's god claims should be rejected as part of its fiction.

[@teamfortresspewp6453]

Amen brother

[@cozmothemagician7243]

O.K. So the best thing to do is to respect NO religion. Or how about I re-phrase it this way I respect Artichokes as much as Asphalt. I dislike Grapefruit as much as Christian Rock Music. Or since what you are quoting does not mention one single tangible thing: I dislike invisible yellow unicorns as much as I dislike 300lb invisible ogres from the 9th dimension. Oh, and on the griping hand, if God and the Devil actually DID exist, I can assure that I would in fact be on the side the Devil. He fought against a tyrant who gleefully drowned innocent children and allowed a drunk and his family of incest loving pervs to go on a boat trip.

[@dDoodle788]

Well of course I do since sometimes the "virtue" and "honesty" of some people can be way more inhuman and cruel than the "devil" and "dishonesty" that they say to stand against. Like that shitty priest in my neighborhood who kept raping children, fully protected by the church of course. Or the Muslim family who killed their own daughter for refusing a forced marriage and then chopped up hid the pieces of her body.

[@MLFLimeyO]

This reminds me of the time when I said I didn’t like a food. My older sibling then made a rant about how other people do like it and that I shouldn’t invalidate their opinions. It doesn’t matter if I like it or not, other people do, so I shouldn’t state my own opinion. Ironically, their rant was all contradictory in the end by invalidating my opinion. When I told them that they called me worthless. It’s strange how they could get so mad over me not liking tomatoes.

[@vert6537]

fuck tomatoes

[@floompyflob2418]

Whoa whoa whoa, you should've lead with the not liking tomatoes part. That's truly horrendous

[@DuccDev]

Wait did you just say you don’t like tomatoes? They were right, you deserve hell sorry.

[@trigz8626]

Not liking tomatoes?! Sound like heresy to me… I declare eternal war upon you!

[@MLFLimeyO]

@@DuccDev Whats even funnier is that I’m Italian. My whole family calls me “the worst Italian ever”.

[@thetsarofall8666]

I think a big source of conflict when it comes to this is our individual ideas about what "respect" means in this context. When someone asks us to "respect my beliefs", what do they want us to do? Do they want us simply to treat them as an intelligent, independent, self-aware adult? Do they want us simply to not start arguments out of nowhere, unasked for? Do they want us not to challenge them when they make some claim, or offer life advice, based on beliefs they hold? Do they want us to let them do as they wish according to their beliefs, wether or not it actively harms or puts a stranglehold on someone else or their rights? When i say "i dont respect your beliefs", i am saying that i dont agree with them, and if you are going to try and convince me, you aught to be ready to have to put some effort into it. I wont let you do as you wish just because whatever book you ascribe to says so, and i wont let you say nonsensical or harmful things without rebuttal just because they are religiously motivated. What i find most people who ask for their beliefs to be respected mean when they do say this, is something along the lines of "i know there are things i say and do that don't make sense and arent necessarily the best thing to do for me or others around me, but just dont get in my way." Like the bakers who refuse to make a cake for a gay couple, or christians who treat a gay couple kissing on tv as something as heinous as a bdsm scene from a porno, it always tends to be people who think their beliefs should let them treat others in ways that would be unacceptable if it were anyone else. Thats not asking for respect: its asking for leniency and to lazily watch and do nothing while they do things they shouldnt to people who dont deserve it. So when you ask someone to respect your beliefs, you should think about and clarify what you mean by that respect. Are you simply trying to bypass any conflict or consequences for unacceptable actions simply because they were motivated by religion? Or are you asking to be treated as an equal in conversation, for insults to remain on the playground instead of in adult life, for people to see you as a person first and foremost. The first is unacceptable. The second is.

[@josepablo4575]

"for unacceptable actions" who will judge what is unnacceptable? don't tell me... you will, isn't right? I would like to know what will you based on to decide that🤔 Don't sending a cake to someone doesn't hurt *ANYONE* , everybody has the right to decide who do they send their properties to. Acting like a kiss on tv is equivalent to bdsm on tv actually makes sense since, at least in some sense, they actually are; both of them have sexual connotations, and if you think sexual content on tv must be banned, you have to be consistent and advocates for the ban of *ANY* content with *ANY* level of sexual connotations, even sexual tension or kisses (also between a man and a women)

[@thetsarofall8666]

@@josepablo4575 1. "Unacceptable actions" in this case of course many people will have different ideas of what is unacceptable. But there is some common ground when it comes to what is acceptable in a broad sense. For example, in just about every society murder, theft, and slavery is considered unacceptable. Usually what is considered unacceptable is based on actions that cause conflict or active harm to either groups or individuals in that society, which tracks as humans are a social species that depend on each other for survival. Doing things that harm each other would be detrimental to survival, and thus looked down on and punished. The only exceptions oddly enough is when things are deemed unacceptable not due to the harm they produce but based on religious or cultural background. Being gay for example is seen as unacceptable in some societies to the point of being outlawed even though it produces no tangable harm to anyone in the society, even the gay people themselves. So no, im not gonna tell you what is or isnt acceptable. That's for you to decide for yourself what you will and wont tolerate. But as always, a helpful saying for determining what is and isnt acceptable when it comes to doing things to others is, "would i be ok with this being done to me?" 2. Refusing service to a group based on their identity is inherently harmful. It makes them less of a person, it treats them as inferior and undeserving of service based on factors outside of their control. In effect it de-persons them, labels them as a problem. This makes discrimination against them seem more justified, and thus guarantees its increase. Its not "just a cake" ; its an excuse for other bigots to expand what kind of services they will deny. From housing, job opportunities, to even basic necessities such as food and water. We see in the past humans are willing to deny even those to groups they see as deserving of discrimination. All it takes to bring that back is to start somewhere. Also, lets be honest here. If you get into the cake business and think "well theres just some people i wont sell cakes to" you should probably just get into a different business. 3. but the fact of the matter is, they dont care about heterosexual couples kissing. They dont treat it the same way as they do gay or otherwise lgbt couples kissing. For them, the addition of the lgbt context makes the kiss sexual, as though they are participating in some fetish simply because its not heterosexual. Ive never seen, and i feel never will see, people who complain about gays kissing on tv complain about kissing in general on tv. The kiss isnt the problem: its the showing of lgbt relationships that is. Thats what they take issue with.

[@cherrycolouredshades]

these people are a lost cause. for us, religion is an extrinsic justifier for their actions, but for them the religious truth is the only truth they know, it’s the architecture of their reality, it’s not truth justified by religion but just “truth”. so that’s why when they discriminate lgbt people they just think it’s right by nature. this is the wicked thing with religion, it provides holistic dogma comprising all reality, if you adhere to it, it offers you a mindframe that can, from your perspective, explain and justify anything. and what does a human being pursue more than this? thing is, this mindframe is fundamentally wrong and i think the only option is to abolish them sistematically. the suffering of people not being allowed this false alleviator of existential dread and absurd is still lesser than all the suffering that the practice of religion causes in society right now and across history

[@user-dx9my1en2d]

respect is a common human right and people attacking and being prejudice against you because of it is disrespect.

[@thetsarofall8666]

@@user-dx9my1en2d well, no. Respect isnt a human right. Unlike rights, respect is something that is earned. While there is a small level of respect we give to strangers simply because we dont know them, someone can easily lose that respect by acting in a way that is usually in of itself disrespectful. This isnt what happens with rights. You have rights because you are born with them: they are an inalienable part of what it means to be a person participating in society, and necessary for society to function in the way it does. You cant have them taken away on a whim, especially simply because someone dislikes your behavior.

[@vanguard1103_pS]

i think a better way of saying what people mean when they say "i respect your beliefs" would be "i personally disagree with what you believe in but my opinion of you as a person has stayed the same"

[@idrawfurries6136]

As a theist, I completely agree. The second I saw the title I thought, "Yes. Finally someone's saying it". I don't care that's it's from the perspective of an atheist. There are some beliefs, most I'd say, that aren't worth respecting. I definitely respect the hell out of this video.

[@summertimetea4594]

You’re an atheist yet you are obsessed with Christianity. This why I can’t stand being around people like you. Smh just worry about yourself

[@alexprus7953]

@SedDeSangre "subscribe" lmao 😂

[@tomgeytenbeek2207]

The word ‘subscribe’ was genuinely used before youtube, my man, the phrase ‘subscribing to a belief’ has been around for ages 😅

[@rafaeljmc6313]

What a way to be contradictory, first you say that you agree with what is said on the video and then you go on to say that "there are SOME beliefs that aren't worth respecting", admiting by definition that some others, or at least one, are worth it (I suspect that yours falls in that category), this leaves me thinking that either you didn't understand a single thing of what this video is about or that you did but you are a hypocrite

[@idrawfurries6136]

​@SedDeSangre For the rest of the thread; when I say "Christian" or "Christianity", I'm referring to a belief I would roughly define as: "Following the Bible." If a belief is suggested to be christian, but is outlined as disgusting to God in the Bible, it is not Christian. If you've experienced a so-called "christian" stating something as fact with no Biblical standing then they're misrepresenting. If anyone thinks that the Bible has views we should not tolerate, or that the Bible contradicts something I claim in this thread, then I'd be more than happy to discuss it. The critique of Christianity is separate from the topic of the video: That there are some beliefs not worth respecting. I can definitely see that whoever made the video is taking jabs at Christianity, most likely claiming that it is not to be respected, but I still respect and agree with the notion that certain ideas shouldn't be respected. He outlines some things that certain theists might do to try to gain a following, but none of any of them are Christian values. From an atheist's' point of view, the quotation, "If they're based on unsubstantiated phenomenal and fallacious arguments, I don't [have any rethinking to do]," might sounds like an anti-Christian statement. But considering Christianity has substance and arguments and historical evidence, even if these things are not always utilized, this statement is extremely pro-God. Obviously, when a book that appears to be a Bible is on display as he talks about unrespectable claims, it's to be taken as anti-Christian. Without the imagery, however, "illogical views do not require mental traffic" is an extremely pro-Christian take. He also put up the phrase "He's real to me" on the wall. If anyone were to believe this - that God's reality is subjective - they'd be wrong. It's Biblically inaccurate to suggest that God is real to some and not others. Again, not really anti-Christian at face value. I think he was more so arguing that God's not real at all, but still. He attributed a quote to the straw man theist, saying, "If you let me make my truth claims unchallenged, I'll let you make yours." Again, any Christian that thinks this way probably hasn't read a page. If you can't be challenged on your views, do you really understand them? I don't think(?) I need to go over the 'become un-criticize-able by instilling fear" argument. It has nothing to do with Christianity in any sense. If you think I haven't provided enough in this thread to counter this idea, let me know. He goes over the idea of a parent using power to instill religious beliefs. "At which end of the spectrum would you put a parent who threatens to burn its children to declining to worship it?" If this is how a parent passes their religion to their child, their religion is most certainly not founded in Biblical teachings. The Israelites were called to "utterly destroy" nations due to the fact that they were literally burning children - a view that is undeserving of respect. "The most urgent cases are the ones who threaten violence when questioned, resisted, or ridiculed." Again, threatening violence when questioned is not substantiated in the Bible. Seeing as the topic is on parents, I think this verse appropriate: Deuteronomy 6:20-21, ESV: "When your son asks you in time to come, 'What is the meaning of the testimonies and the statutes and the rules that the Lord our God has commanded you?' then you shall say to your son, 'We were Pharaoh's slaves in Egypt. And the Lord brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand...." - The proper way to respond to questions is to tell the truth. No violence and no "I'm not sure, I just believe." (That being said, if you're not sure why you believe, it's significantly better than not believing. You should just know why.) The next piece of emotional blackmail the creator of the video talks about is guilt, saying "My beliefs give me comfort - can't you just leave them alone?" - If Christianity was just a belief system to ease the pain of suffering, it would be much more sunshine and rainbows. If the point was to comfort you on your deathbed, why preach of Hell? Why preach that it is a Christian's role to take on suffering? One of the most important lines in the Bible is in Matthew 16:24. "Then Jesus told His disciples, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me...' " - When Jesus was to be crucified he was made to carry his cross up a hill. It is to say that suffering is linked with following Jesus. If the goal was to believe something that would make you happy about the suffering in life, it would be better to say: "Kick your feet up and eat grapes all day. Do not deny yourself, but instead do whatever sexually perverted, gluttonous, evil things you desire. Everyone is going to heaven when they die anyways." At this point we're only 6 minutes into the 22 minute long video. To summarize what I'm trying to say: The video itself might present itself as anti-Christian, but from what I can gather the individual ideas of the video, if they were to be taken at face value, are not at all criticizing Christianity. I wanted to explain why the points made are not anti-Christian, even if the video might come across that way, but I think I'll stop here. If there is something I've missed - something specifically critiquing a Biblical view, or any other point someone would like to challenge me on, feel free.

[@nef36]

I don't think my entire life philosophy has ever been more succinctly summarized.

[@nothingbutsomething158]

Sounds edgy

[@astradewoodvale159]

@@nothingbutsomething158 edgy but correct

[@profile1172]

@@astradewoodvale159 guys its correct cuz youtube said so. Gen z summed up

[@lightblue254]

@@profile1172 What makes sense, makes sense. No matter through which medium the information is presented to you. As all mediums can be fabricated, you must find the truth. Go read your newspapers or something lmao

[@vkyal5810]

@@profile1172 Perhaps it would be more credible to you if it was written in a parchment?

[@jerobardo37]

this truly just hits the nail on the head, thank you for this video, which i have returned to several times the past years. Great work.

[@stargazer99]

I literally made a comment today on another video explaining that I’ve been harmed directly by religion growing up. And that I essentially ultimately said that I don’t follow any religion despite believing there is a god because you I don’t tie the ability to do good with the ability to believe. I do good because it’s the right thing to do. I don’t go and help others out of a bad situation or with their day to day problems when they ask me for help so that I can feel good or so that I can go to a good place after death or whatever happens after death whether we do go somewhere or whether it darkness. I help others because I want to make sure others are okay and because it’s the right thing to do. Religion has directly affected me in a negative way growing up. And this is why I don’t tie myself to any religion. I try to stick to my own beliefs and my own moral code and while everyone should have their own beliefs you should also be willing to adapt them if it comes to it and be willing to change your outlook! Don’t get stuck in something for the comfort of it. I recently went through what this video talked about with my girlfriend(now likely is going to be ex) as she kept fucking trying to push her religion onto me even though she never got to choose to belief in the religion herself she was adopted from South America and raised in a very strict religious family she was forced into the belief and was trying to force onto others specifically me. Saying shit like: “I do t want you to go to hell” then I would call her out on that bullshit and she would sputter and stutter and instead of directly trying to make a counter point she just muttered under her breath “You just don’t believe hard enough” This is exactly the shit that was used on me growing up to be kept under a portion of my religious families control. I became the black sheep on my mom’s side as the only one of my two other siblings who didn’t get baptized. I haven’t been talking to her for the past 4 weeks. I don’t know when I’m gonna outright say to her that it’s over. And what I’ve said before watching this video is “If you can’t respect my beliefs” I know think what others are saying is a better way of saying what I was truly trying to say there which is: “You aren’t respecting me as a person” as she would outright believe that I deserve eternal torment purely because I don’t believe her religion despite still believing there’s a god. I won’t stay with someone who believes that. That is a deal breaker for me.

[@snakeperson5467]

My family abused me in the name of Islam since my childhood. They said theyre gonna kick me out of the house if I dont believe and I was only 15 years old when this happened

[@sixgm227]

You caused fitnah upon your family, they must do something

[@Painbringerr]

Oh my, sorry that happend. Are you feeling better now? I live in a Muslim country, so I kinda understand your pain.

[@agungrezkyramadhan8664]

bruh

[@ahmetsalihsavas7745]

dude are you sure they knew what they were believing in for real? Because someone that really knows what islam is wouldn't enforce their beliefs because that is what kur'an literally tells them to do (Simply) : Do not enforce religion because it will turn them away, (Not exactly same but that is what the point of one of the paragraph written.)

[@NeinKyori]

@@ahmetsalihsavas7745 You probably haven't realized but most people practicing religion pick and choose what they want to believe in anyway, it's impossible to find someone following all the teaching word by word. Plenty of religious conservative are quick to yell "god hates gay" blah blah while ignore the "loves thy neighbor" part, aren't they?

[@joelformica8344]

I wanna live in the void of your videos where objects, structures and eyeless people arise from nowhere.

[@norisgello2523]

I like the place

[@1nv15BL3]

same

[@thecoconutgum]

Yeah lol

[@MatthewsPersonal]

Indeed. Its helpful to respect people, especially in a debate, but respecting beliefs is enabling at worst and boring at best

[@RichardsGaySon]

Why do religious people assume that their beliefs are deserving of respect? I don’t respect any beliefs that preach hellfire for unbelievers.

[@ninja_tank25]

The short version of my story is that I am a Christian but find myself at odds with several things, including hell itself. Initially, I only watched and read sources that painted all atheists in a super negative, anti-intellectual light, but as I am inclined to do, I wanted both sides and found myself here. The deeper I dig, the more nuanced things become.

[@asleep0w0]

the wadge of sin is death for all have sinned and fallen short to the glory of God if God gave us what we deserve were all going to hell jesus came to save us from our sins God gave us free will to chose either evil or good because he wants true love committing one sin is punishable by death yet God is giving us time to repent God is holy holy holy nd he is good and good hates evil all murderers deserve hell but God is so good that even liars go to hell jesus lived a perfect life he was even tempted by lucifer yet he didn't commit any sin he was the perfect sacrifice jesus didn't have to die in the cross if we are not sinners

[@nerysghemor5781]

I am a Christian as well, and I think it's good to investigate. :-) One thing I would also suggest to you is to broaden the scope of your research beyond Western (i.e. Protestant and Catholic) sources and also take in what the Eastern Orthodox Church has to say too, as some of their positions on things like Hell and "original sin" can be fundamentally different from those of the West.

[@strumminfuel4625]

It's brave and commendable to challenge everything, it's the sure way to grow.

[@dnadan8637]

I’m also christian, and I believe that, in a debate or otherwise any kind of judgement or decision, one should consider both sides from both side’s perspectives.

[@isaiahjewell1379]

Both sides are very nuanced but neither side understands the opposition’s nuance, however, both think they do.

[@johntheoddity6791]

I was always raised with my parents telling me I could believe in or not believe in what I want, as long as it didn't bring harm to anyone. Eventually I went to live with my grandmother and the more religious side of my family. They would take me to church and I would always cry and get severe panic attacks. My family thought that I was "feeling god." I was not, I was afraid. I was afraid of abandonment and being out-casted by my family for not fitting their beliefs or standards because that's what the church told me. Being in a room with hundreds of people that would disapprove of who you are and what you don't believe in if they found out is a mind fuck.

[@theoutlander1411]

You sound like a baby. I can't imagine you trying to stand up for yourself in University and telling all the weirdos there that there are only 2 genders. You'd probably have an anxiety attack from everyone yelling at you. No one ever was going to threaten to hurt you or get you fired/kicked out of school for saying you don't believe in God except maybe a spanking from granny. Church is comfy, the only annoying part about it is people wanting you to conform to the basic narrative and you simply say no. Meanwhile real society wants you to conform to calling a man with lipstick a she and if you don't you go to jail.

[@theoutlander1411]

@@johntheoddity6791 You need a thicker skin if you want to survive this life. If Church was such a traumatic experience for you, I can't imagine you existing outside of a hugbox. That goes for others too who have these weird almost overly dramatic stories about feeling threatened while going to Church.

[@thenoicemango1827]

The Outlander 14 Man you’re a moron.

[@theuberlord7402]

WillowThe Oddity I can tell you that we have non-believers attend our church as they go along with their family. Not one time has someone been outcast. If anything, those people are reached out to and welcomed to simply be there.

[@ChronoSakuya]

@@theuberlord7402 While that may be entirely true, and your position in this regard may be entirely benevolent, the argument you're presenting is basically "This hasn't happened to me or people around me, therefor your experience is invalid". I've never been a church goer, but my family is, and I've no issue with going to church with them when the need for my support arises. Our churches are generally very gentle places, and so I've never had any negative experiences either. But I know of many who have, and plenty of people practice their religion with an iron fist, demanding their children believe or be smacked around until they do. I can absolutely understand where Willow's fear would come from, as a child who is suddenly shoved into a room full of people who, while they may or may NOT judge them for their beliefs, present a completely different and terrifying ideology to what they're accustomed to. Being forced to sit in a room full of people singing praises to something you disagree with is plenty of reason to have a nervous breakdown, even adults can suffer this response. TLDR; It's great that your church is welcoming and outreaching. Not all of them are, and fear needn't be rational to a child.

[@EdwardHaren-zp6re]

Ive come to an understanding of beliefs and the beliefs people have adopted are outdated opinions that work against the believer. I cannot respect beliefs they are crutches and do no good in the long run.

[@famtomerc]

“My religion says **I** can’t do that” Cool 🤝 “My religion says **you** can’t do that” We’re gonna have a problem

[@fabianletsch1354]

What if one person telling you, you can't do that, is right? If you were driving a car right at a cliff and you were not seeing it but i did and i told you. "You should stop driving this way and hit the brakes immediately, otherwise you will die", would i be evil for telling you, *you* can't do that? Or wouldn't that actually be love, especially if i knew you wouldn"t want to be told that because you like driving the car this way? Wouldn't it be dismissive and dehumanizing to not tell you, because i would just accept your fate, pretending you don't matter?

[@poedack]

​@fabianletsch1354 lol what does a car crash have to do with religious freedom and human rights

[@rinlaroy]

​@@fabianletsch1354you're simply advising them not to fall off a cliff that's different to advising people regarding their beliefs and lifestyle

[@drewwallingsford6768]

@fabianletsch1354 other comments replying to you aside, your analogy is fundamentally rigged. The opposing side is (in your analogy) driving in a car on a perceived road. Your side claims that the road ends in a cliff, and they are driving towards it. You're treating the cliff as existing for everyone. However, this cliff might not even exist. Around a bend, the road could be a cliff (your opinion), more road (opposing opinion), or something else entirely (you're both wrong). Your analogy is flawed due to it treating a variable opinion (the cliff existing) as a constant for everyone. By misrepresenting this, you are, intentionally or unintentionally, trying to deceive others. Too long didn't read: You're wrong.

[@AthiusOnTop]

⁠@@drewwallingsford6768but at the end of the day, the person they are advising to stop believed there was more road. The idea that it’s a deception comes more from the fact of lacking the mention of the first sentence above. Even then lots of things in life are about differing perspective and how people fight over whether or not the road continues or doesn’t. It doesn’t come from some sort of malevolence or bad faith action but of genuine concern or repulsion to the opposing ideas. That is unless I was wrong and there was some sort of bad faith action involved leading to this situation. Even then it’s bad faith for me or you but the optimal choice for our opposers. That is unless it was a terrible decision even from their mindset, but then again there are all sorts of exceptions to a lot of things I could use to justify this

[@emtheslav2295]

When I asked my grandpa for if I should be sent to hell for being atheist, his response was “I hope God gives you a 2nd chance to repent your rejection of him”. I could easily tell how uncomfortable he was with the concept of hell. EDIT: looking back, it made more sense that he didn’t like me being in hell. I cont know why I said concept here…

[@comentaristacomun3414]

your grandpa is a good man.

[@danfoxdude]

He was uncomfortable with the idea of you in it 💀

[@emtheslav2295]

@@danfoxdude looking back, that makes more sense.

[@rewater]

@@emtheslav2295 As much as I agree with the videos premise, might I insert some insight? The modern beliefs of regulations and moderation are nigh identical to the pasts beliefs of being judged, the question is should you ALWAYS have a second chance or not? Some studies show being entirely irregular (with your health excreta) leads to regular issues (with the same thing). The same premise applies to ones evident "damnation." Now for the question, in modern times, it is somewhat completely your fault for a problem, and some weight should be put on those around you aka society (like in societal issues). meanwhile the older method puts the entirety of a fault on your savoir and/or yourself directly. You should always be given a second chance in both methods... somewhat. It's really only a matter of need, because the inevitable pushes the need for second chances and it is human to believe in the inevitable.

[@narrativeless404]

​@@danfoxdudeLmao But he was still believing in it's existence

[@brolo7234]

This applies to more than just religion. This boils down to any sort of personal belief or perspective.

[@fortheloveofnoise9298]

Political party affiliation being a big one.

[@ericklauridsen9353]

@@fortheloveofnoise9298 Of course. But that's a hard discussion to have in a youtube comment section. But this explains eloquently why alt-right poltical views should not be respected.

[@dipdyedpoptarts]

He does bring up other things as well not just religion...

[@TheMadBeach]

I definitely agree. But in the last few years I've learned quite a lot about politics and history. And when it comes to US/Western politics and political history it gets a bit tricky. Much like religion/superstition, there's been a significant amount of intentional manipulation of historical people, places, and events. Especially regarding labor history, or our 'peoples' history. As Karl Marx once said, “The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force. The class which has the means of material production at its disposal, has control at the same time over the means of mental production..” This is now more true than ever seeing as how just six (6) corporations own/control more than 90% of our media (TV, radio, newspapers, periodicals, etc.) In just the last four years I have discovered more about our history than I had previously known (or thought I knew) in more than 30 years on this planet. If anyone experiences a negative internal reaction to just hearing the name Marx, this is in part what I'm talking about. But of course it's much more than this. As Erik mentioned, it's not easy to have this conversation in a YT comment section. There's been a deliberate effort to obfuscate much of the labor struggles of US workers, and of others around the world. You may have heard of some of these efforts (like the C|A's own 'Congress for Cultural Freedumb.') But I hadn't until very recently. It's extremely insidious to say the least. And it infects every corner of political science/history in the US. I've already taken up too much space here. But in case you're still reading, I'll end it with something from someone who's work helped me and others better understand this history: "History is given to us by the 'conquerors' or 'winners.' And if we ever do hear from the conquered or 'losers,' it is through carefully-tuned filters." -Dr Michael Parenti

[@paendabear21]

@@ericklauridsen9353 also leftist Muslim forced acceptance. Literally what the video is about, we should not be forced to respect Muslims beliefs for any reason

[@privatizitat815]

Respect the believer, not the belief is what I would go by. The believers are still people deserving respect most of the time, but their believes aren't. Why should I respect a belief that doesn't respect me?

[@roderickcortez138]

If someone demands that there beliefs be respected it's usually because their beliefs can't stand basic scrutiny.

[@im_skrunkly]

word

[@Serusshi]

Does that apply to communists and Marxists? They don't seem to take criticism very well.

[@sundayoliver3147]

@@Serusshi I would say yes, all beliefs. But be sure you know what communism and Marxism are before you assume a person is communist or Marxist. Those terms are thrown around really loosely, often used to mean "points of view I won't even consider, so it must be communism or Marxism, because I have heard somewhere that those are horrible."

[@tuwuesday]

My parents used to make me go to church with them when I was young. The pastor's wife once told a story about how she got sick for several days after watching a soap opera, and only stopped being sick once she stopped watching the soap opera. She believed that God had decided to punish her for sin of self-indulgence, for engaging in pleasure that wasn't strictly religious. Within the same sermon, they laughed at other Christians who believed that drinking soda and who believed that owning nice pieces of jewelry and watches were both sins of self-indulgence. All of those examples really made me question why having those small amounts of comfort and pleasure would be bad, why they thought that they would be punished, why the god that they said created them wouldn't want them to have any joy in their lives. It was one of the contradictory points that solidified my disbelief in a god- that this god who wanted his creations to be happy and healthy, didn't want them to be happy and healthy.

[@lastyhopper2792]

they're mostly stupid anyway... what kind of dimwit thought that if D happened after A it automatically means A is the cause of D..? They should redo their whole education, and this time, actually pay attention. What a joke of an adult.

[@Adasvers]

Their reading an alternate universe version of the Bible.

[@tuwuesday]

@@lastyhopper2792 "Correlation implies causation," is a really easy fallacy to fall into for Christians, it seems. My parents are pretty smart people, I'd say, but sadly they believe some wild stuff and ignore some rational stuff. My mom, who aced all of her history and science classes, once repeatedly screamed at me, "you're a liar!" because I mentioned that snakes used to have legs. She believes the story of the global flood and Noah's ark. My dad, also a straight A student, doesn't believe in climate change. He believes the story of Adam and Eve. Their religious education has made them into irrational, ignorant people. So I agree, change up the study style, or maybe switch schools 🤠 (Sorry for the long rant 😅)

[@tuwuesday]

@@Adasvers I'm not sure what make, model, and year of Bible my parents' church had, but their interpretations were definitely out there. I think every denomination thinks that about every other denomination though lol

[@miniclip1162]

@@lastyhopper2792 that implied they had an education. some people do not get the luxury of an education and instead get indoctrinated into believing everything their church says.

[@crimsondragon2677]

19:10 To a theist, a lack of heaven could be considered hell. I’ve heard multiple Christians say that the “torture” in hell is simply god’s absence. And to that I say: “like my current life?”

[@afroking2935]

I saw something like this on a video by a guy who goes by the pseudonym Inspiring Philosophy on KZbin when he was addressing the subject of hell. He was like placing your priority on anything else besides God is hell itself and I found that problematic. Infact there are so many things wrong with that video but I can't verbalize them in words, I wish someone can help me articulate my thoughts on that video in words.

[@MythicBeanProductions]

No because in your current life you have people around you that can help you and you still have a chance to be with God. once you die, you can't just change your mind. If you go to hell then you will be forever without even the tiniest sliver of hope, love, or peace.

[@stonemaze9925]

@@MythicBeanProductions Why cant you change your mind.....Evidence please.

[@juliee593]

Lack of heaven/god is hell for them, but not for you. I think it's a bit of a misunderstanding between those theists and you. To you, no heaven and no god is your normal life. This absence of heaven or god is something neutral. To them, no heaven or god would be losing a big part of their life, and losing a reward they had been promised since their early childhood that protected them from fearing death. It would be losing a part of their identity that might comfort them. It would be a loss. So they would see it as a negative instead of a neutral. So that leads to a situation where they're sorry for you and you're just like "what? I'm fine!" It seems like they don't understand that if they lost their belief in god, they could just base their happiness and identity on other things, and be just as fulfilled, because they've been taught there's no way anything will fulfill you more than their god.

[@juliee593]

@@MythicBeanProductions we do not need a chance to be with your god. We do not believe he exists. We do not believe hell exists. We have no need to live in fear of something that isn't proven to exist. Simple as that. Your idea of what will happen to us when we die doesn't really affect us you know... Doesn't "help" either.

[@thirdpedalnirvana]

The social contract is tolerance, not respect. But also "respecting someone's beliefs" doesn't really mean respecting that what they believe can have any truth to it for you. It only means you respect them enough, as people, to accept their word that their belief is meaningful to them. And to respect that we all live in our own hallucinated little worlds created by our minds, and that most of what we experience is not objective reality. That's why we have tools of science to distinguish between what seems true to us and what must be true for everyone. Just because someone perceives reality differently from you doesn't make it invalid.

[@Satan_Official]

I personally have this idea that, the more an authority demands for them not to be questioned, the more their authority SHOULD be questioned, if they say "You shouldn't doubt me, because I know this and that, I've studied this and that" fine, makes sense, you gave me an object argument as to why I should listen, but doesn't mean that you know everything, so you could be wrong but I'll take the fact that you are knowledgeable in that subject into consideration though, but if they say "You can't question me because I said so." or "If you question me you are going to Hell." I immediately don't believe anything they are saying anymore, if they can't(or refuse to) give me a single plausible argument as to why they should have authority over me, they don't deserve to have any authority over me, I start to question their authority just to make a point, and show them that I don't see them as being superiors. Even if I have to suffer punishment for it.