Rethinking Covid | Jay Bhattacharya & Gigi Foster

In this Direct interview, John is joined by Professors Jay Bhattacharya and Gigi Foster for a scintillating reconsideration of global responses to the Covid pandemic. Among their topics of discussion include the influence of public health bureaucracies in democratic nations, the impacts and necessity of lockdowns, essential tools for modelling public health economics and the efficacy and safety of Covid-19 vaccines.
Dr. Jay Bhattacharya is Professor of Medicine and Professor (by Courtesy) of Economics at Stanford University, and one of the world's leading experts on public health policy. Dr. Bhattacharya’s research focuses on the economics of health care around the world with a particular emphasis on the health and well-being of vulnerable populations. He has published 135 articles in top peer-reviewed scientific journals in medicine, economics, health policy, epidemiology, statistics, law, and public health among other fields. He holds an MD and PhD in economics, both earned at Stanford University. Dr. Bhattacharya previously appeared on John's podcast in August 2020, during the early days of the pandemic.
Dr. Gigi Foster is a Professor and Director of Education within the School of Economics at the UNSW Business School. She holds a BA in Ethics, Politics and Economics from Yale University, and a PhD in Economics from the University of Maryland. She works in diverse fields including education, social influence, corruption, lab experiments, time use, behavioural economics and Australian policy. She has held several ARC Discovery Grants and authored more than 25 scholarly works, including the book (joint with Paul Frijters) 'An Economic Theory of Greed, Love, Groups, and Networks', published in 2013 by Cambridge University Press. Gigi is active in the Australian media, particularly in regard to matters of education policy and economic thought.
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00:00 Intro
00:52 Introducing Jay Bhattacharya & Gigi Foster
03:08 When did you realise government responses to Covid were excessive?
05:00 The situation in Australia
06:39 'Flattening the curve' - in hindsight
10:00 Mortality rates, masks & lockdowns
17:40 Public health experts & democracy
28:14 Science under the microscope
33:45 Lockdowns 10 years from now
37:41 Power, public servants & decision-making
42:27 Modelling public health economics
50:51 Vaccines - a sober evaluation of efficacy & safety
1:04:52 Practical lessons from the last 3 years
1:08:38 Jay's vision for the future of science
1:10:24 Conclusions
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Conversations feature John Anderson, former Deputy Prime Minister of Australia, interviewing the world's foremost thought leaders about today's pressing social, cultural and political issues.
John believes proper, robust dialogue is necessary if we are to maintain our social strength and cohesion. As he puts it; "You cannot get good public policy out of a bad public debate."
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Professor Jay Bhattacharya:
profiles.stanford.edu/jay-bha...
scholar.google.com/citations?...
Professor Gigi Foster:
www.unsw.edu.au/staff/gigi-fo...
esacentral.org.au/national-ec...

[@realnews7424]

The scariest thing is 90% of the population has no idea we were wronged.

[@frankpeters935]

true

[@conniesheraw4702]

Because they do what they are told by media and politicians.Baaaaaa

[@noshirm6285]

Absolutely agreed!

[@williamwhitten7820]

*Going along to get along is fine...until you get to where they are taking you.*

[@billyt9921]

@@williamwhitten7820 by which point its too late to take back control, freedom and liberty.

[@arthurh5707]

After the shock of the initial surge, the focus of the pandemic was not about science, but political manipulation of entire population.

[@montanagal6958]

money

[@timfallon8226]

The response created the surge. Sticking frail elderly on ventilators and toxic antiviral killed thousands of them in short order and they attributed it to covid.

[@ricochet2977]

@@montanagal6958 And power!

[@johnlund2036]

I think that political manipulation of the population was the original goal. That is why the world wide establishment, with exceptions, was so quick to discredit any alternative approaches to dealing with Covid.

[@aWitty]

There needs to be some kind of psychological pressure test for senior government bureaucrats, any of them who show a tendency to fall towards totalitarianism and fascism when under prsssure should not be allowed to have a senior government job.

[@freedombug11]

Any time I see Jay Bhattacharya being interviewed, I tune in. These are the true "adults in the room."

[@heleneteterekidis5669]

Yet ...he fell for the jab.

[@alexluthiger731]

🤣 adults childish the right way.

[@SilenceInTheBliss]

Agreed fully.

[@katiek.8808]

Anytime I hear the phrase adults in the room it’s usually directed at sheep or leftist liars. I haven’t even watched the show yet but the title alone says everything. There is nothing to rethink other than the blind loyalty and obedience people had for government. The adults in the room were screaming from the roof tops from the beginning. As always they were called conspiracy theorists, right wing extremists, or racist. It’s getting old.

[@howharditis8655]

@@heleneteterekidis5669 I had similar thoughts. And there were many like him that took it. Maybe I would too but I was drawn to a lot of spooky behaviours that causes me to step back one of which was Fucci remarks that before the end of the decade the world will experience a suprise decease. Media manipulation, censuring, and the unwillingness to use anything to help since we're supposed to be in a pandemic are others. Science was on it's head.

[@teresamacey4012]

I am so happy that the female doctor mentioned there are many other things we can do to prevent disease. I had covid pneumonia at age 73. I had no symptoms other than needing oxygen support for a few days. I had been taking vitamins and supplements to build my immune system, I was eating a low carb diet, and I had been spending a lot of time outdoors getting sunshine and fresh air. They haven't mentioned early treatment with anti-fungal meds which would have kept people out of the hospitals, which were mostly death camps. We must begin to take responsibility for our own lives, inform ourselves, and stop allowing government and mainstream media dictate how we live our lives. More than anything we must remember, what is good for one is not necessarily good for all. We need freedom to choose.

[@MsChitterchat]

Wonderfully articulated, thank you

[@christophercharles3169]

I agree completely. The problem is that too many people rely on others to do their thinking for them.

[@ritabutler1951]

When it comes to a pandemic it can never be addressed on an individual basis. There has to be personal accountability to take care of oneself for sure, but there also has to be measures that benefit the public good, that is masking to reduce spread.

[@christophercharles3169]

@@ritabutler1951 While it may be a little thing to wear, masks have been proven to have no significant impact on the spread of transmission as was witnessed all over the world. I don't mind preventative measures that are based in science. That once isn't.

[@charismahornum-fries691]

Did they know that much back then? My impression is that much of everything whatever was done was on a trial basis.

[@hubrisnaut]

I studied the data from the beginning. The 'policy' was insane.

[@montanagal6958]

it would be gone if we never gave shots

[@hubrisnaut]

@@montanagal6958 I looked at the data from Italy And Spain and could see it was the very old and sick dying. Bad part was they were treating with ventilators which made things worse. I just never trusted the mRNA shots. The Chinese are not using the Tech. They created a traditional style vac.

[@marksouthern7542]

I also followed the data and was left dumb founded by the response in Australia. It is the first time in my life I have begun to consider things I would have called 'conspiracy theories' a few years ago.

[@friarnewborg9213]

BUT you were not allowed to say that.... by Vaxx-Fascists

[@jennyvan]

Right from the start there were things that didnt make sense. it totally baffles me how people accepted the bs and censorship that was fed through the msm.

[@tiavu7606]

Jay and Gigi are beacons of reason and calm clarity. Thank you for give them a public voice.

[@ifly-fsx]

Gigi is far more "reasonable." Jay is obsessed with the v, and blind to the fact that the cdc and fda are ignoring the side effects instead of investigating them.

[@ifly-fsx]

@@gertie9881 He has tenure. He criticizes frauduci and collins, but still talks about "lockdown" and the v like they should be used, but in a more limited capacity. When we all know they should be completely avoided. Sounds more like cognitive dissonance than self-preservation.

[@DHFrank]

Yep!!!

[@robmanzoni5766]

@@ifly-fsx: "...but still talks about "lockdown" and the v like they should be used..." It's clear that you haven't listened to one word from Dr Battacharya...

[@ifly-fsx]

@@robmanzoni5766 It's clear that you haven't, troll.

[@marksouthern7542]

The really frightening thing about Victoria is not that Premier Dan Andrews acted much worse than a third world dictator and sent his goons in to do the work, it is that it looks as though the Victorian people are likely to re-elect him. That should worry us all about our democracy and civil liberties. Someone said we get the politicians we deserve.

[@annelbeab8124]

As far as I know it was Bert Brecht ...

[@helicart]

Just brilliant insight from both Jay and Gigi. I am an older Australian health professional and was absolutely disgusted with the totalitarian oppression by public health officials, whether administrators clinicians or scientists re Covid. The spineless response from the medical community also floored me. Covid woke me up to how corrupt, brainwashed, and poorly trained in ethics and medicine the majority of health professionals are today. And every day I see more and more signs of poor health care delivery, due to decay of professional ethics in favor of ever more dollars.

[@whitehorse1959]

Helicart - well said. One of my adult children, a radiologist (now ex-radiologist), was the only person in his Sydney-based private hospital to resist the work-place coercion (since he was already immune from natural infection) until he was ejected from his hard-won career. Of course he has become disillusioned with the illogical, non-scientific, order-following, cowardly, medical community. Australia will replace him with good robots. Probably literally. Science has been replaced by the religion of vaccinology. Extremely dangerous. A new dark age has come.

[@TheJancameron]

My husband is a physician and Covid has awakened us to the corruption

[@Three721]

Thank you !

[@DapperDavo]

Clearly Gigi is not worried about harming her career, not like most Australian politicians towing the line just to keep their jobs. Well done Gigi and Jay.....

[@tasd5673]

People in Australia Are asleep. They watch home and away or MAFs over educating

[@brianwolthers2762]

She was on the ABC . Not sure she still is.

[@ElijahLim]

Dr Jay Bhattacharya's patience and longsuffering in saying the same things over and over again to people determined not to listen is inspirational. Thanks for recording this!

[@hugoveracandia3562]

Yes !!

[@rosella3966]

Respectfully John, I recall your support of both the lockdowns and vaccine passports as expressed in an interview with a guest last year. I remember because you were okay with my being shut out of society. Nice to see you coming around.

[@loaded2820]

Too little too late. I won't forgive him.

[@rafal5863]

The hypocrisy runs deep. John would like to forget his position but we remember.

[@lisanorris7436]

wise people adjust their views as more knowledge becomes available.

[@tarantulady8565]

@@lisanorris7436 But the info was available YEARS ago. But all those investors in the jab - who stood to earn 100’s of billions off the narrative & fear that was motivating people to get it - coordinated with government and media to suppress it all. And doctors couldn’t be trusted or counted on, as a last line of defense, to flush out the suppression & the mandates that resulted by refusing to go along with it. The media is nearly completely bought & paid for, and the politicians own stock in the jab companies, so have a massive conflict of interest. It has VERY little to do with changing your stance when you “learn more.” It has A LOT to do with them covering their butts after getting caught not doing their due diligence to preserve public health, safety, & liberty. Don’t excuse a lack of curious investigation on their part. They literally ignored acting on nformation from anyone that suggested anything different from the narrative, abdicating their responsibilities to the public.

[@rafal5863]

@@lisanorris7436 Yes but they usually explain how they arrived in their position. Not just sweep the old position under the carpet. He was more than keen to propagate social panic on no evidence like the rest of them and now he plays the Monday expert like nothing happened. Like he was always on the right side of history. This is nothing more than damage control. We remember who egged people to drink the cool aid.

[@gertrudewest4535]

Thanks dr. Battacharya. You’ve been my hero from the start. Thanks for giving this older working class female who lost her job, home, horse and dog due to the lockdown. I am 58 years old, working 60 hours a week in a meat grinder job , camping out and no health care or future. Thanks America. Never look at you the same again. The experience profoundly changed me and how I view humanity.

[@DybbukDEpstein]

I feel the same way. It was a betrayal so ultimate, so beyond anything I have experienced in my life, that the change in the way I see my own leaders and medical community has been irreparably altered. I was force vaccinated to keep a job in order to at least support my child so she could remain un-jabbed. I have not gotten over what was done to us. I want anyone who told me that I "was not forced because I could just quit" to explain to me what the difference is between "let me stick this in you or you don't work" and "let me stick this in you or you don't work". And when they inevitably cannot see any difference, I want them to explain to me why Harvey Weinstein is in prison.

[@threeofive9401]

I agree with what Jay and Gigi say about "flattening the curve" and other, better ideas at addressing both this recent pandemic, and any future pandemic. The problem is, these things can take months and even years to get into place, and that is after it has been concluded the best tact for addressing some given pandemic.

[@blondie0075]

As an American healthcare worker subject to mandates and potential job loss and limited opportunities due to these mandates. ....Thank you so much for the thoughtful honest discussion; it gives hope that this will all be remedied.

[@montanagal6958]

AND threats of being thrown in a concentration camp for the unvaccinated

[@robertryan1663]

People with this level of integrity and courage are exceedingly rare in our current Society. For all our sakes I hope they are able to accomplish some of their goals.

[@billyt9921]

I don't think they are rare, there's plenty of them it's just that they do not end up in powerful or influential positions because they're unwilling to sell their souls. The problem isn't a lack of integrity, its a lack of integrity demonstrated by almost all those in power.

[@Kim-wq5wi]

A ray of hope for humanity is provided by these two intelligent, courageous, and articulate individuals. Thank you John for keeping this topic of COVID policy alive. We can never repeat the COVID debacle again!

[@jimblamire3312]

The authorities will do it all again soon. They are already plotting the next lockdown.

[@syddog44]

Putting covid+ elderly people back into care homes was a "mistake" most countries made. Funny they all made the same "mistake".

[@ThePbag]

To hear these two speak, and calmly express so many things that I have emphatically said for nearly 3 years in such clear words, is such a solace to a frustrated soul. I have sent this video to several people who fell completely under the spell of media and political misreporting on the pandemic, as I do disagree with Dr. Bhattacharya on one topic: we must not forgive those who shouted us down, nor try to make peace with them, until we can be sure that they comprehend the magnitude of their delusion and are ashamed enough to never fall prey to it again.

[@kp74952]

How shocking, to hear a coherent, reasoned, informed, measured, and mature discussion of such important topics. How sad that such an occurrence is so rare, and that people and conversations like this are not at the forefront of our global media. What struck me most was the importance they placed on not vilifying those who made mistakes, but finding a way to move forward together for the benefit of all. This speaks volumes of their character and motivation. People like this should be leading us, not the self-serving windbags currently taking us nowhere.

[@MeganLeibovici]

I've heard Jay Bhattacharya a number of times now and I deeply appreciate his measured response and non alarmist language. That said Gigi Foster is new to me and ON 🔥. I've bought her book. I *love* that she speaks her experience and analysis so clearly and hearing a woman's voice. Thank you so much 😍😍

[@ivaketiv]

Her common sense is like a breath of fresh air.

[@bobthebuilder9553]

Love Dr. Jay Bhattacharya. I've followed him from the very start in 2020.

[@user-dv2cg5or4h]

Many of us did. Which is why it is disingenuous to state "well, early on in the plandemic we didn't really know so we just had to fire rubber bullets at you, force your grandad to die in solitude and imprison you in your homes for most of 2 years".

[@marybairstow950]

Such a refreshing podcast. Australia so needs to have open and honest discussions like this.

[@loaded2820]

Too late. He was an early adopter. Look for the interview with John Howard where they fully supported everything the Australian government did.

[@keywee849]

Graphene HYDROXIDE is in the Covid19, US Military's bioweapon & everyone involved will be EXECUTED.

[@astroflyinsights]

@@loaded2820 this!

[@buildmotosykletist1987]

@@loaded2820 : Thanks, please name or link to that video as I must have missed it. Thanks again.

[@derekreed6798]

Thank you Jay for keeping this important topic in the publics eye. You are swimming against the establishments narrative...but people are now listening.

[@christophercharles3169]

The fear Gigi was referring to was only in the uninformed. Anyone who bothered to look at statistics knew in early 2020 that this virus targeted the elderly, over 60 years of age. Realistically, anyone one below the age of 70 had little to be concerned about. No cost-benefit analysis was ever performed and rather than follow the practical guidelines set out in the Great Barrington Declaration they instituted lockdowns and mandate policies that seriously undermined our economies. The current state of the world economies is largely the result of those policies with the Ukraine-Russia war having a lesser impact than most politicians in power would have us believe.

[@maryp6004]

And how exactly do they propose to”protect the elderly” (and immunocompromised) without locking us in a basement somewhere? Many, many of us are not in nursing homes, but are out in the world and even working. I already take Vitamin D: that’s not going to cut it. How would we be protected, according to these guests? I have not yet listened to the entire program, so maybe I’ll hear the answer.

[@christophercharles3169]

@@maryp6004 Better to have those at risk that are still working, segregated at home, working or subsidized if not able to, rather than doing this with the entire population and destroying the economy and its associated supply chains in the process. As an example, I was looking to buy an ebike in 2021 and couldn't get what I wanted until 2023. The salesman estimated that their supply chains would take 3-5 years to correct themselves after the lockdowns were lifted. A whole series of processes, involving a myriad of people take place in order to get an ebike to market. Disrupt any one of those processes and it has a ripple effect throughout the entire business. You can't stop and start an entire economy at will. It has repercussions and we are living through them now. So sad what our politicians have done.

[@maryp6004]

@@christophercharles3169 I understand the argument the one should not destroy an entire economy for the protection of a few. But those who are elderly and/or immunocompromised are not really “few”: in the U.S., the latter group alone comprises at least 10 million people. These 10 million have families, friends and co-workers that they interact with regularly under normal circumstances. A call to “protect” them that doesn’t take this fact into account is not only not a solution, but relegates them more or less to exile without end. Moreover, when I scratch beneath the surface of this view, I usually find not too far below the notion that some number of deaths is acceptable. I submit that this works until the death is your own or that of someone you love. As far as “protection,” I find the ideas I hear put forward most often to be utterly laughable. I have a background in the life sciences. We are not going to avoid or cure Covid by taking vitamins or herbs. The end result, if one is being honest, is that some will die to preserve the social structure for the many. Perhaps that’s a view that some people will go to the mat to defend. But if it is, please be honest about what you’re proposing, and why.

[@christophercharles3169]

@@maryp6004 I, much like the Barrington Declaration, propose a more targeted approach that involves protecting those at risk as much as we can while not locking down our economy and not forcing people to take a drug that was still in development and not labelling people as non-essential or unvaccinated. I credit herd immunity and the normal progression of a virus for the fact that we've come out of this so called "pandemic" and I give little or no credit to vaccine(s) that have proven themselves to be highly ineffective. More people that are boosted are dying from the virus in my country than from any other group including the unvaccinated. You get to herd immunity via the working of an open society, not a closed or locked down society. Kids should never have been taken out of schools and businesses should never have been closed. This can't be looked at from an emotional point of view, that 1 death was too many but rather from a scientific point of view that, like you stated, accepts the fact that some will death are to be expected. Science was pretty much thrown out the window, due in large part to fear, cowardice and censorship. In the end, just as many people died but on top of that we decimated our economies, some of which will take years to recover, divided family and friends, obliterated our confidence in science, politicians and above all, the medical community. This was not a win for humanity.

[@Toropetskii]

@@maryp6004 You ask how the elderly would be protected other than locking you up. I would argue in the opposite direction: The worst thing we did was pretend that the elderly could be protected by locking them up. Nursing homes were hit hard and lockdowns were too late to keep the disease out of the country and could only cause people to receive inadequate care when they were truly at risk. From when I first learned of the disease in late Jan 2020 my advice to the government would have been to close international borders and quarantine all recent arrivals until we could determine the risk level and our exposure to date. However, this was decried as racist and unfeasible. By the time I was convinced that nothing could stop this disease spreading naturally and all we could do in the long run was attempt to treat severe cases and allow it to spread naturally, the government had finally decided that taking action was politically feasible. Way too late to be cautious. They then instituted lockdowns and masks per the recommendations of Communist China, backed by their doctored 'science' and big pharma funding. You may have your own differing views on this timeline and the reality of the situation, but it has become (with the benefit of hindsight) inarguable to dismiss this viewpoint that I have held since May of 2020. The 'solutions' that we used over the last 2 years have been devastating cases of destruction and have not interacted with long-term virus survivability.

[@lorellgingrich6603]

This was a brilliant discussion. Thank you John. When things don't add up ... follow the money. I suspect this was yet another enormous transfer of money, much like the 2008 financial meltdown. Both crises are/were very suspect

[@NicholaWallace]

I work full time and haven't had a decent holiday since covid started. A friend and I are planning a trip to Europe early next year and she was really keen on a river cruise but because I'm not vaccinated we checked what was required for a cruise. All require a person to be fully vaccinated with the most recent booster within 2 weeks or even less, prior to the cruise. If someone then gets covid, the whole boat is isolated meaning you cruise without leaving the boat. You'd also be required to mask. My friend is triple vaccinated and has had covid. I may or may not have had covid as I couldn't be bothered testing. So we've canned the cruise idea. It's just too hard and could turn out to be very not fun. So the effects of government covid policies are still far ranging and affects many businesses and their policies. I'm so over it.

[@patricekanagy5898]

You might want to check again. My husband and I were scheduled to take a river cruise in Germany late September early October 2022 with friends. I’m not “vaccinated” so we cancelled. My friend called after they got back from the cruise and said no one ever asked (on land and on board ship) for their “vaccine” cards. When she asked the crew said they were not allowed to talk about it. Interesting.

[@GLopezMad]

You are better off not taking thoses cruises.

[@lvlv1225]

@@GLopezMad why do you say that?

[@annatanneberger1]

It is always such a pleasure to listen to Prof Battacharya. Always pleasant, kind, rational.

[@ifly-fsx]

The fact that he's still focused on the v is anything but rational.

[@annatanneberger1]

@@ifly-fsx Huh? So there must be no evaluation of what happened - in his own field of study - and ensure that mistakes are avoided next time.??? Keep doing the same thing with the same result ---- ???

[@vickiallred977]

Jay, it was all about power! I hope Australian government pays for what they did!

[@mtmg3648]

I hope ALL western governments who abused their power and did NOTHING to protect the true at risk population pay for what they did!

[@zelmiracholevova184]

All bills are paid from your taxes. Governments do not have money.

[@kazoz3520]

Well they lost the 2022 election.

[@MrChezyoung]

Wow John, what a fabulous interview. It gives me hope that not all Australians have gone mad! Thank you

[@canoedoc2390]

When we have the age stratified all cause mortality rates for vaccinated versus unvaccinated for 2021 and 2022 we will know how safe and effective they are.

[@carolschlismann7558]

Those stats will include a surprising number of younger people who suddenly died. Keep in mind that excess deaths were high in 2021, and the insurance companies were shocked at how many working-age persons died. This information is from claims for deaths amongst persons in group life insurance policies offered by employers.

[@montanagal6958]

I am pretty sure we can ALL agree there are people in power who do not care about human beings.

[@thagreatadante]

Whats never questioned is how quickly the developed countries in the world acted totalitarian and in agreement in unison so early even using the same language. Its clear to me that this direction came from the money men puppet masters who would bybl their hidden hand would have black balled any nation who didn't toe the line on the actions taking. Blackballing being targeted for trade isolation and generally being cast as a pariah state. Now in the UK we had brexit 6 YEARS ago and still we are hammering out the fine details of that split and will for some time to come. But the whole western developed world fell lock step in unison agreement on what measures to implement upon the people of the world five mins after the pandemic struck without a hint of any push back. The Great Reset instruction book by Klaus Schwab was coincidently just readily available with all the answers for just the event. It smacks to me that the whole event was pre planned and this virus was intentionally unleashed upon the world in order to bring about a new totalitarian global society. We must look beyond just the handling of the pandemic but who this pandemic favoured and what has been implemented as a result .

[@marksouthern7542]

I agree that this unison of response requires analysis. The countries that had the worst response were Australia, New Zealand and Canada. Why is that?

[@eighteenin78]

In the uncertainty of a real pandemic, the future is unknown. But this episode was fully marketed and choreographed from the getgo. They were certain how it would spread, how it would unfold and how we would all be affected - and that the only remedy could be at the expense of throwing out time tested alternatives which were made illegal or impossible to get. The slogans came out early. "We are all in this together." "Two weeks to flatten the curve." "You'll do what's best if you love Grannie". The plexiglass barriers which must have taken months to manufacture were out within weeks. The certainty of mask efficacy. The arrow direction floor stickers. etc etc. And then came the bribes... And that is just the tip of the iceberg. Obviously it was as you suspect. But unless we collectively prove otherwise, they are brazen because they know they can get away with it.

[@ruthdella37]

Virus came from China. China covered it up until the last day in 2019, thus “COVID ‘19.” China exported their TOTALITARIAN STRONG ARM around the WORLD based on LIES! China’s CCP is a major EVIL DARK FORCE that needs to be STOPPED!

[@ruthdella37]

Fauci should spend time in jail if Pfizers people have to go to jail!

[@nataliashevchenko9684]

One little point: It is just unwise to unleash a REAL deadly pathogen that spreads through air and cannot be controlled. They are evil, not suicidal. Do we really have a proof that all these people with different symptoms, toxic treatments, never used before, and lack of care in time, due to closed hospitals, died from the same thing? They did not need anything unleashed. Just a scare campaign. Belarus president said it was bs back in 2020. There was practically no restrictions there, but nobody cares about Belarus. And Tanzanian president, who exposed that the test is bs, is dead.

[@honeybadger5933]

Dr. Jay had been warning about lockdowns from the beginning. He wrote in WSJ in March 2020 and did an interview on the Hoover Institute Channel. I've followed him since then. He should have been put in charge.

[@daffidkane8350]

Fear and mass hysteria being leveraged for commercial interests. Well said.

[@zuzuspetals8323]

The TRUTH will set us free. In God we trust. 🕊

[@duncant63]

I have long been a subscriber of this channel abd I have great respect for John Anderson and the role he has taken using this channel as kind of person/politican "emeritus" doing his good work for the benefit of the Australian citizenry, or indeed the citizens of nations all around the world. The content of this interview was not new to me, but to have it reported within this kind of benign and trustworthy context is so moving. I really hope that somehow this interview gets posted and reposted so that it goes viral and attracts the ire of the internet censorship tyrants - but only AFTER it has gone so viral that they cannot shut the gates after the horse has already bolted!

[@barboblisk1029]

John, old friend, (I last saw you in Mullaley a few years ago in the drought) it is good to see you exposing the truth which various layers of government haved tried to hide. RGL

[@sofly7634]

Thank you for Great Barrington Declaration Jay You didn't need the shot

[@valerieanderson7967]

As an American I can agree that entrenched bureaucracies were much to blame but equally so the weak and selfish people who obeyed without question. We had every right and every resource we needed to rise up against the tyranny, but except for a few, did not. I will never see my friends, coworkers, church members, and even family members in the same way.

[@dandarby2408]

How refreshing... Utter HONESTY!!!!!!!!!

[@tallard666]

Gigi is wonderful! Why am I just hearing from her now!

[@evilynn333]

Jay says he blames scientists, but blaming scientists absolves politicians and journalists from the role they played in the covid response.

[@robcd7112]

But he's right because the politicians and journalists would not have been able to further the agenda very effectively if the scientists and medical community prioritized integrity over job security and/or money.

[@evilynn333]

But there were many scientists who did speak up who were censored or even sacked. There was the Swedish no lockdown response. There was Doctors using ivermectin and hcq. There were scientists speaking up against the mandates, There was the great Barrington declaration. The information was there for anyone to find on alternative media! Journalists could have reported it and did in some instance on more right wing news channels. The ones that didn't report were gagged, scientists are not to blame for that.

[@shutthegate8232]

It was many: supposed politicians (non are lawfully sitting) judiciary constabulary academia corporations businesses companies MSM medical institutions Doctors and Nurses Unions and more. Many were acting in lockstep to carry out this attack on the people of Australia.

[@mickeydoubleu]

Absolved the people, too, who revelled in the spirit of fear.

[@maxxwellbeing9449]

I live in Canada, our 38 year old, very fit school phys. Ed teacher, with zero health issues, died 17 minutes after they gave him the juice of a heart attack. He got the shot, he said that he had a funny taste in his mouth, got up, felt dizzy, passed out in front of his wife and died, in the hospital… but it’s safe and effective. Trust the science. They claimed that the shot had nothing to do with his death….really?

[@christophershrimpton7627]

Sounds like a clear case of an intramuscular shot hitting a vein. John Campbell Phd has spoken a lot about this. Poor injection technique in a rushed mass “vaccination “ program.

[@maxxwellbeing9449]

@@christophershrimpton7627 Correct, they didn’t aspirate the needle, none of them did. I told the nurse at our school that she needed to do it, and her response was, “I think I know what I’m doing.”I pulled up John Campbell’s video on it. She still ignored itI went to her supervisor. He ignored it too.

[@katadam2186]

Nurses used to be taught aspiration, I read they stopped teaching them based on a study done about babies and pain during an injection ( clearly flawed thinking) .. So they stopped teaching this method! The younger generation are not being taught quite a few techniques in medicine that are tried and true, it’s very dangerous

[@annelbeab8124]

@@christophershrimpton7627 and it took him ages to come up with it while the aspiration criticsm was long going on. I guess that's where he started becoming sceptical of buying all the government and 'their ' experts were saying.

[@glendacollins2898]

And that is what we’re up against. People say the truth will out. Will it?

[@Midlife-Adventures]

John if you have not done so already I'd suggest a talk with Bret Weinstein regarding issues in science. I assume Jordan Peterson would be able to get you in contact with him. He and his wife Heather have discussed issues in that space quite extensively. Both are evolutionary biologists and have the Darkhorse Podcast. Bret was at the centre of the Evergreen College controversy quite a few years ago.

[@metgirl5429]

Amazing couple Worth interviewing 🕊

[@TheNoodfood]

These guys are very tech science speak but their eyes are opening more and more to the lies, mistruths and corruption around thr vaccines

[@kham6006]

Agreed

[@battygirlrachel]

Agreed. Bret was on top of the covid issue at the start and speaks out against the 'science worship' that became more apparent due to the pandemic. He can provide insights from multiple angles. It was his and Heather's podcast that made me feel like I wasn't crazy for the concerns I had.

[@paulbadics3500]

Many people who now see the harms still wont admit they were wrong to buy into everything & many cant accept all the elites & institutions lied to them

[@gingrai00]

~33:40 John says something about the only answer to “cancel culture” being “courage culture”. This made me remember something that has been on my mind lately… Namely, that I have started to see, emerging in our culture, a greeting that people offer to one another with an increasing frequency… people today are taking up the greeting of “stay safe”. This greeting is anathema to the human spirit. I have started, as a response to this anathema, to respond with “stay courageous” or “stay bold” or something of the sort. Staying safe is not a virtue and, in fact, it tends to play into the hands of the bullies, who would threaten to cancel anybody who disagrees because being canceled is a risk, and the risk averse are unwilling to take it.

[@RussCR5187]

Excellent comment! "Stay safe" also plays into the conditions that need to prevail in society so an "official narrative" can take hold and control mass behavior. This is detailed in Mattias Desmet's book "The Psychology of Totalitarianism". He provides some excellent summaries in various video interviews.

[@annelbeab8124]

Well said. It bugs me a lot. It sounds like "play dead" . Great suggestions how to respond!

[@johannaw9166]

Well said! I have been disliking the "stay safe" comment since people started using it. I say to them "stay free".

[@andyx8440]

A fantastic talk! Jay, Gigi, you are shining light in this dark ages where the leaders have become enemies of the people. Thank you.

[@SJQuirke]

What a great conversation. Thank you to all three of you. I have liked the calm approach of Jay Bhattacharya from the time he presented himself to the world at the beginning of the pandemic. And his calm but energetic indictment of the scientific 'community' says a lot about those science leaders in the USA who have so much to answer for in this period of mass panic. In the first week of the pandemic as the hysteria was ramping up I sent all of my friends a reading of James Thurber's essay - the day the dam broke many of these people still do not get it though Edit: yes people were scared - but my most common experience was people feeling superior and very ready to condemn anyone who stood against the flood. All that Mattias Desmet said about Mass Formation applies

[@grahamcox1797]

Yes, Mattias Desmet on Mass Formation needs to be heard more widely as he points out that determined resistance is the only way to "break the illusion"

[@SavingCommunitiesDS]

I got 30 days in Facebook Jail for saying that Vitamin D could have nipped this pandemic in the bud. Just before this video came out, Bret Weinstein interviewed military personnel showing that the vaccine mandates has harmed US military readiness.

[@aWitty]

Getting suspended from Facebook is something to be proud of.

[@SavingCommunitiesDS]

Yes, @@aWitty, but it gets tiring when it happens repeatedly.

[@claudiagoodman639]

I was in Facebook jail 5 times, ivermectin was what I was in for.

[@CuchulainAD]

Delete Facebook

[@SavingCommunitiesDS]

@@CuchulainAD, we need to promote other platforms to replace Facebook, KZbin and Twitter. We also need Congress to take away the special protections those platforms enjoy.

[@dianawalls3157]

Please, please, please, YES, let us have fair and open debates & discussions allowing the best of the best without fear or favour. John, I really love your conversations, we really lost a fantastic politician when you retired.

[@Jaime-eg4eb]

Whenever someone in a position of authority changes their mind about these issues, they always say it's in response to our increased understanding of them. That begs the question: if you didn't understand them in the first place, why did you demand that everyone follow your will, and shut down people who disagreed with you? Surely the appropriate response to not knowing about a subject is not to tell everyone what they should do in regards to it. I don't know much about algebraic topology, which is why I don't go in the news talking about it and trying to silence university professors who have spent decades studying that subject.

[@Leonardo555ZZZ]

We the people , must never allow this to happen again. Pandemics can happen , but the disproportionate response and loss of civil rights must be stopped.

[@johannabarry4672]

Oh if only it were that simple. The 'people' were heavily propagandised and fighting tooth and nail for the first lockdown. Just like the people buy into the climate catastrophy and are actively supporting measures that will permanently destroy the quality of life they currently take for granted.

[@kaylenehousego8929]

I am pleased I was able to see this conversation through to the end John . Thank you - I will rewatch it at another time when hopefully I will be able to articulate my thoughts independently of my feelings.

[@Topknot60]

A very good and interesting discussion. Also grateful that you let your guests talk at length without interruption so that they could develop their points.

[@aussiesam01]

Gigi Foster is always such a beacon of common sense. I love listening to her views.

[@Sugarblizz08]

This is the kind of information I like to hear. Thoughtful, considerate, no name-calling, and educated. I can always depend on John Anderson to deliver these sound discussions.

[@calebmarks1]

Two, absolute stalwarts of the truth right there. They stuck their neck out early, when very few would.

[@peterweston1356]

Videos like this keep me sane. One point, imho unless we explore ‘complexity’ deeply and apply those ideas we will never develop the systems required to avoid what happened to us all. A new enlightenment must move away from linear thinking but still align with scientific principles.

[@alexluthiger731]

An intelligent snake bites not its own tail. 🍷🎃

[@Tech-49]

I've lost complete trust in Government, Academia, Medical profession, Legal profession, Police, THE MEDIA, big Tech, big Pharma, employers and my fellow citizens who enthusiastically rowed in with totalitarianism segregation and tyranny. Every single check and balance in our system failed or capitulated without a peep. Now after all the damge is done a few people are emerging from the smouldering rubble and aksing was all this destruction necessary, a question almost nobody wants to hear because the vast majority either actively participated in it or passively supported it. I think I am permanently damaged as a result of the last 2.5 years, I'm finding it very difficult to come to terms with what was done here in Melbourne and trying to reconcile that with living in an alleged liberal democracy.

[@tonysymes3720]

Remember what happened to the Nazi prison guards. When the truth gets out the masses will not be happen with them, and just doing their job wont help them.

[@scapps8173]

Going to search for Gigi Fosters book now. I have become so discouraged with women lately and it is so refreshing to finally see a non hysterical, intelligent woman speak. Thank you Gigi for restoring my faith in some women.

[@PuertoVallartaVideos]

Only a true master can express complicated subjects in short and simple language and form. Gigi and Jay are prime examples of mastery. Thank you for giving them space and time despite the generalized craziness and superficiality.

[@naomiklahn4623]

Love these two.

[@ICPR1200]

Well beyond time that Gigi was given this kind of platform. Highly recommend her book 'The Great Covid Panic'.

[@MrZett0n]

Dr Gigi Foster is spot-on here, wonderful. What a revelation. I agree with her. Fraud and deceit that results in loss of life should be heavily punished.

[@moneycrab]

I LOVE Jay -- if there is justice he will be revered in history for his courage

[@linkes28]

I remember watching gigs right at the beginning standing her ground.. now look unfortunately what she said would happen happened.

[@friarnewborg9213]

"A lot of people were just scared," says Dr Jay cautioning us against reacting too hard. The scared ones were complicit in NOT being discerning. And that is not full excuse. However, the Real JUSTICE needs to be applied against those who gave or received money to impose bad policies. Or pushed out LIES. There was some real villainy that needs investigating.

[@rotironwerks]

Thank you, thank you, thank you John, Jay and Gigi.

[@Vladviking]

Our current "Modern Science" has all the Hallmarks of the time when scholars were burned at the stake for saying the earth was round.

[@Dubs84]

John I remember an interview with you where you were all for mandated jabs and lockdowns I lost so much respect for you then.

[@michalklein5219]

How about the doctors who REFUSED to treat with repurposed drugs? #Malfeasance

[@NotSoAlarmed]

Gigi Foster has just become a new hero for me. Stunning and candid from around the 58 min mark - the slippery slope and 'public good', pregnant women weren't included in the initial trials and yet our Governments actively marketed to them. Of the 270 who did fall pregnant during the clinical trials, the results are horrendous.

[@swarupawalker7904]

Ivermectin needs to be recognised as a wonderful treatment and protective treatment . It’s high time

[@hemlock527]

I'd add to Gigi's idea of a citizen jury deciding on funding that we need a law that politicians must turn up to a few live public debates per year or face imprisonment. They need not engage their opponent but turn up. Only the light of a public square can defeat the powerful mob in Plato's cave. They need as close to an existential tbreat as possible.

[@brettw011]

Seeking savior from a politician is like feeding your leg to a shark with the expectation it won’t eat all of you

[@johnberger5539]

A stellar example of the 'READY, SHOOT, AIM' philosophy.

[@Peaceful-resistance1]

Thanks to all for bringing some light.

[@virghof5836]

Fantastic interview! Sounds like REAL scientists!

[@perryseehoe590]

Great interview, and great to hear her say that some pfizer execs will end up in jail however the real elephant in the room - financial incentive for drug companies, politicians and bearocrats to aline. ... could have had its own segment. Lets hope some of them face real justice.

[@GUITARLEGEND956]

John we had plenty of info. There were many many people remonstrating against this nonsense. It said a great deal about the Australian character. Anzacs my backside. My grandparents were children of the depression who went without but believed in this country to the point where they volunteered to risk their lives for it. They would be turning in their graves looking at what we have become.

[@RussCR5187]

Fear-driven sheep vulnerable to propaganda and intimidation.

[@Leonardo555ZZZ]

Almost every day in the media I read of seemingly healthy people 'dying suddenly' , often below age 50 ... Yet the same media fails to question the alarming increase in Australia's and many other country's death rate ...and what could be causing this increase.

[@Leonardo555ZZZ]

All we ever had to do was protect the vulnerable , and treat the sick . It was that simple. Instead we inflicted massive damage on everyone , and incurred massive debt that will handicapp us for decades to come.

[@murielbrown3013]

It's going to be difficult to forgive and forget as the excess deaths continue to mount.

[@merrick8000]

I will never forget how my friends, peers, family and acquaintances treated me during covid.

[@dddoyle]

So sorry to hear of your suffering. Stand strong. The truth is coming out!

[@merrick8000]

@@dddoyle cheers, appreciate the reach out

[@RexJebamoney]

Thank you this discussion. We need to have real adult discussion on every thing and don’t let big businesses, lobbyists and politicians make decisions. Our democratic institutions need fine tuning and refinement.

[@mandyshanks2327]

We need this real facts evaluation for climate change too.

[@gpk131]

amen

[@sue.F]

When covid lockdowns were first introduced in China, I remember thinking that these restrictions on personal freedoms could only work in a communist state. How wrong I was - how readily we acquiesced, and it really didn’t take that much effort on the government’s part to turn citizen on citizen. It’s all been so very disappointing.

[@j.a.c.3776]

I'm still in shock, that whole experience gave me ptsd. You never could've told me the American people would capitulate to something like this so easily. It was effortless for the government to take control. I swear, I'm still shocked.

[@sue.F]

@@j.a.c.3776 some time, maybe in a few years or so, they’ll make documentaries on the madness of it all. We might look back in marvel, there may even be a few laughs, but like you and right now I’m reeling from the whole mess.

[@j.a.c.3776]

@@sue.F Definitely, this will be spoken of for decades

[@vicpower9394]

This is arguably the most remarkable interviews I have ever taken in . Full credit to the interviewer and the interviewee, They revealed the answer to cancel culture is courage culture. The world is morphing toward clericalism that mirrors the period of The Inquisition. Dr Forster revealed concern about how Power Is dangerously concentrated. There is a simple way to correct and that is to mover leaders out of their positions on a regular basis, like the term limits on the USA Presidency. This was done in a very large Australian Mining Company that I was familiar with. It was aimed at curbing nepotism and corruption. It works.

[@RussCR5187]

Given the controls that are now in place, bolstered by big-money influence and intimidation, it's difficult for me to see how any regulations unfavorable to the ruling elite can be passed.

[@axiomic]

How about scientists, and institutes, don't fund and make pandemics in a lab..

[@mandyallard393]

What no-one mentions though, is we already have State/Territories Governments introducing new Bills and Legislation that will make the last two and half years look tame, compared to what's coming, in any future "pandemics". We need to have discussions on this and how to repeal them and replace them with a much more common sense approach.

[@mbtvalli]

Brilliant, fearless observations and analysis. Really, just common sense in a way.

[@mirekkilimnik5352]

“I think truth and reality win”. Thank you all for being a part of the voice of truth.

[@bradbailey1893]

The public discussion we should hold. That said, they miss a core issue: political leaders who follow either WEF elitist agenda or Progressive / Marxist agenda are fully invested - intellectually and by action - to squash dissent and have been demonstrated to collude with academia and media. Until we remove them from power they will perpetuate their devious agenda.

[@pelocitdarney5718]

If you ever have the capacity to understand that the vaccine wasn't created for Covid, but Covid was created for the vaccine, then everything about this criminality makes sense.

[@bajajoes1]

WOW! YOU ARE RIGHT!

[@petermozelewski2645]

Absolutely. There is no way the treatments could have been produced within a year had pharma not been ready. The bug was created and released or escaped.

[@aindriubradleymarshall6226]

Fact.

[@fuddyduddyhorsemanship]

I’ve been wondering stuff like that from the start. It all seems very convenient for some people. Also seeing how some politicians in Germany for example totally break the rules that they are forcing the public to stick to makes one wonder about the end game.

[@bgs03548]

No disrespect intended but all three of these ppl are clueless about the ‘real’ power structure in this world. Of which Fauci is a tool to facilitate a means to an endgame.

[@MIA-nt5nz]

Where is your apology for supporting lockdowns and vaccine passports John Anderson? The intelligence, morality and warmth of Jay & Gigi shines through.

[@annettestephens5337]

Great interview from those willing to stand up for truth. However, I have watched people disappear from KZbin over the past 2 years, when they question the narrative over Covid, lockdowns and vaccines. Hoping the conversation will continue ❤

[@kham6006]

America fudged the numbers -most of us knew this early on

[@mtmg3648]

True.

[@MrFury777]

Unfortunately too many people watch the TV and they had no idea the TV program was and still is far too strong I called the fluoride affect

[@patjohnson9012]

I agree that we need to have compassion on many who did not know what was happening re the lock downs etc, and were truly terrified by the supposed leaders of the science community, but my son died as a result of these policies, and there does need to be a day of reckoning for anyone who pushed this agenda for self serving motives, be that money, job status or anything else, lets not forget justice.

[@cherylmockotr]

I am sorry for your loss. Your's is the real story of this pandemic debacle, and just like 9/11, we can never forget those who lost their lives due to idealogical greed.

[@justice9813]

So refreshing to hear common sense, and truth.

[@bikeguyhd1035]

Those of us who did not dismiss the Great Barrington Declaration, among other documents and ideas, fared much better.

[@glendacollins2898]

Signed and promoted that document. For all the good that did.

[@OldSonyMan]

Before the start of the lockdown in the UK, I heard an economist (on BBC radio four) clearly state that "The cost of the lockdown will be more than the cost of the disease" ! It then took me about ten days to realise that the whole thing was B*****KS ! And the final straw was listening to 'Womans Hour' (again on BBC radio four) where a lady talked about "this horrible horrible disease !" and advocating that all care home residents should have DNR (do not resuscitate) notices on their medical records !

[@lornaimber4885]

Disgusting 💩