Retirement / After Affirmative Action | Glenn Loury & John McWhorter | The Glenn Show

[@GlennLouryShow]

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[@OkTxSheepLady]

I thank both Glenn andJohn for taking the time to do these podcasts. For us of the general public it is a treat listening to their discussions and ideas. I hope they feel it’s worth their time.

[@SvenErik_Lindstrom3]

I live in Finland and just got the news that the copy of Glenn's memoir, which I asked our National Library to acquire into their collections, is now available for borrow. Can't wait to read it! If my financial situation were better, I would have of course bought a copy for myself.

[@briancorigliano]

Enjoy the read. It was a treat!

[@DanHowardMtl]

If McWhorter writes a book on Looney Toons MANY people would buy it!

[@Cruise465]

Been listening to Glenn and John since 2008

[@megaohmaudio5963]

Thanks for the heads up on The Rest Is History, John! 13:30

[@tthompson9244]

I would absolutely buy a book about Looney Toons written by John McWhorter. Are you kidding?

[@johncarson7324]

Huge fan of Glenn Loury. I was a political science student in the early 2000s, who stumpled upon/found Thomas Sowell lectures from the 70s or 80s, and found them quite refreshing. Loury is the closest Black thinker that follows that vein, and always respected him deeply for his mind. Just wanted to say congratulations on retirement -- will continue to listen.

[@maryspencer4274]

We still need you both

[@arnobbal2059]

Glen and John book club 👍🏽

[@anthony8385]

Retiring? At least we can partake of your wisdom here! Congrats Glen.

[@Stevanavich725]

I really like the sound quality in the new digs Glenn.

[@JamesBond-yn8kd]

Thank you for the TRUTH Glenn

[@bud1239]

Yes Glenn! Run for office! Or better yet, Glenn Loury for president!

[@jdankerdake]

I have great admiration for Glenn, but more septuagenarians and octogenarians in office is not what we need.

[@bud1239]

@@jdankerdake I think we need people of character in office. Not virtue signaling politicians that don't do anything or do bad things. Age does not matter for this.

[@melissaradaker1128]

What a beautiful ending! God bless you John for sharing that personal story sbout your girls.

[@johnwilinski2721]

I am a 74 year old x steel worker. I went through many plant ownership changes. Started in Youngstown sheet and tube, East Chicago, 1968. I was able to retire after my 49 years of service, at the same location. It has never been explained to me how in such a short period of time the steel industry was devastated. If you remember this affected black and white workers alike. As an economist you might find the exploration of this subject stimulating. I would say these plant closings set back black and white workers alike, that we as a nation never over came, no matter what government does.

[@user-rx162r]

@@johnwilinski2721 Left wing energy policy. Left wing taxation. Right wing permissiveness to capital flight. Right wing antitariff movement. Left wing assimilation of antitarrif sentiment as humane internationalism, despite course correction by right.

[@thedeejm5032]

Happy retirement and congratulations on your life’s work as being a force for enlightenment to the minds of young people; pimples and all. Seriously good luck to you and I’ll keep listening.

[@timothy4664]

Wow, almost 50 years as a professor. That's amazing Glenn.

[@Traderbear]

Glenn I think you should write a book to the black people who have been swept up in progressive identity politics

[@HeadlessBourgeoisie]

Thank you both for another great episode. Dr. McWhorter's anecdote in the final segment, and the discussion around it, ended things on a beautiful note.

[@MrKaviSpence]

Looking very svelte Glenn! Good job!

[@crossfire340]

As a white guy, I really appreciate getting your perspective as an older black guy. When people told me I couldn't have perspective on a topic because I'm white, while I thought it was a toxic way of putting it, I felt like I needed to specifically seek out the perspective of another that could represent part of a minority group's perspective. I hope you continue sharing your perspective as you journey through your retirement.

[@user-rx162r]

I feel sorry for you and your self intolerance, that as an adult you are unable to think a self affirmative thought without looking around to other groups for validity.

[@crossfire340]

@user-rx162r Not sure I see it the same way but ok.

[@user-rx162r]

@@crossfire340 "but ok" "toxic" "journey" less reddit, more books. A few pushups wouldn't hurt.

[@yvy6269]

No one tells Robin DiAngelo she can't have a view. It's a bad faith shut down and nothing more; if you were black and said the same thing they'd find another reason to dismiss you.

[@tattooman3603]

I despair when I hear that reasoned, calm, and logical thinkers such as yourself, Glenn, are leaving the educational field. YOU are the voice of wisdom our kids need. As calm as McWhorter is when chatting with you, I find it rare that you have any influence on his elitist attitudes and his TDS induced, close mindedness. I have no doubt he's an educated and smart man, but logic flies out the door so often when you chat, and he is an example of the kind of intellectual that will likely replace you in the teaching system. I fear for our future when great men like you no longer "steer" our children into using their brains and not their emotions to drive them forward.

[@scarletsletter4466]

It’s also highly upsetting bc it sounds like Glenn is sort of being pushed out by social pressures or ageism rather than actually wanting to retire. This is an unacceptable way for Brown to treat a valued academic.

[@frankharvey88]

It’s a very emotional response for one to accuse another of derangement simply because they have a strong dislike for one’s preferred presidential candidate/president.

[@jejo63660]

@@frankharvey88completely agree, especially when someone has as nuanced an opinion as John does. John has written at least one whole book on wokism and criticism of that ideology. He’s both anti woke and anti Trump, which many people on either side of the aisle can’t claim. I respect his opinion immensely, and believe he’s much more nuanced and credible of a thinker than Glenn is particularly regarding Trump, with a ton of respect to Glenn.

[@tattooman3603]

​@@frankharvey88typically I would agree with you, however I have never heard John even be willing to accept that Trump has done good things. Glenn has pointed out good things, as well as pointing to proof or evidence that refutes many media claims against Trump, and John seems unwilling to either follow up on that evidence, or believe it when he sees it. Further, since I'm aware of his age, he would know, with very little searching, that Trump has no history of racism, has had many black friends (Oprah included), acquaintances, and business partners, as well as endorsing Jessie Jackson when he ran for presidency, yet John has talked about Trump's racism. When there is that much evidence to counter media narratives, and Glenn points to them, then something else is over-riding John's ability to even suggest he might be wrong or that Trump may not be "entirely bad". I can only attribute that to TDS, especially considering John's circle of friends, the fact he is in entertainment and has friends in entertainment, and likely, his unwillingness to risk his ability to maintain his friendship and status within those circles. As for Trump, he can be crass and boorish, and he has always bucked the elitist narrative while living within that circle which has always endeared him to both the "grounded" elite, as well as the common man, all while also maintaining his ability to fit in with that elite. He has been very unique in his ability to fit in seamlessly everywhere. I don't think his personality is presidential by any means, but his love of America is, and always has been obvious, as well as his ability to for the good deal. In this case his good deal is looking to the future and seeing that "the swamp" and "the establishment" are ruining and selling out the country, and that being self sufficient and bringing industry home is good for the country. Is he drawing in too tight and being overly isolationist and nationalist? Perhaps, but I think in light of all that has been given away or lost, it appears this way moreso than it is. Also, in regards to Trump, I'm Canadian (don't even get me started on the 95 IQ Prime Minister we have) so I don't have a dog in the race, but I think America is the most important nation on the planet, and the Dems are looking to destroy it as they seek to maintain the US dollar as the main currency for the Petrodollar, and towards that end, they are funding war, and backing ideology and beliefs that will lead to civil war in your nation, and possibly WW3 on the globe. They are the war machine in high gear, and this needs to stop. They've sold the farm. Without the US dollar as the Petrodollar, and with so much manufacturing now overseas, they are in huge trouble if BRICs uses the Chinese or Russian, or Saudi currency. When that happens, with no manufacturing to create exports, the US dollar is going to plummet in value, and that's bad for Canada, and all Western nations. The only way to counter that, short of war to control oil and narratives, is to bring manufacturing home and stabilization of the US and it's economy. The only one aiming in that direction is Trump currently.

[@JaradPetroske]

i would absolutely buy John’s book about Looney Tunes. There’s so much culture captured in those short pieces. And Glenn, listen to John, don’t run for office 😂

[@Mark-hc8ek]

One is called racist for supporting the end to affirmative action and racist for assuming blacks in college are there due to affirmative action. It's one of those many issues that we're asked to suspend our disbeliefs to protect the feelings of a small percentage of people. It's exhausting keeping up with this.

[@vincecarbaugh6216]

Schools everywhere should make these two required listening to in Social Study classes every two weeks.

[@detmonmonten6727]

49 years, congrats

[@beckytrella5147]

What about debates. Would enjoy seeing both of you on stage sharing your academic ideas with logic and reason.

[@AmillionpraiseTV]

Thanks brothers Glenn and John

[@joanhuffman2166]

I trust that Mr. McWorter will find that writing things out beforehand sets a good foundation for better podcasts afterwards.

[@iankclark]

I grew up watching The Black and White Minstrel Show on the BBC in England. I believe I also owned a 'golliwog' doll as a small boy. When I first saw a black man (U.S. airman) I was shocked and fascinated.

[@taylorbrown2598]

Glenn looks handsome! Glad for your recovery.

[@brek5]

Good luck, Glenn, just enjoy the new adventure. And yeah, just listened to the most recent episode of The Rest Is History before coming here, lol. Recommended!

[@ninadaly7639]

And so, in a weary world, shines a good deed. Well done Glenn. We must always remember, just because we can do something, doesn’t mean we should, right?

[@freddieoblivion6122]

Some say when the right move isnt obvious, the best thing to do is nothing.

[@ahwhite2022]

@@freddieoblivion6122others might say that when you stop moving, you stop living.

[@matthewkilbride1669]

Love the Rest is History plug. Tom would be a great guest for the Glenn Shoe

[@shamsam4]

Thanks!

[@Marianne-d2h]

Great duo 🎉

[@therrdon1841]

Glenn, sir, we are truly honored to have the opportunity to be exposed to your thoughts on the issues of the day

[@theheebs100]

Glenn, if you were on the presidential ballot right now I would have not a single second of hesitation before voting for you. God knows this country needs someone like you to guide it. I wish you did one more year because 50 years of professorship has a wonderful ring to it, but you have well earned life beyond your career. I'm an educator myself, and I have nothing but respect for your years spent guiding the youth fortunate enough to be nurtured by your brilliance and wisdom.

[@theresabelg145]

Thank you Glen for your reporting. They are very informative.

[@ArielBerdugo]

Outstanding !!

[@billnorris8457]

Glenn should adopt a local primary school. The act of handing a diploma in full-earned academic regalia is good and powerful. John could do it too. Special attention and care for a small group is doable. Even enjoyable as you can build manageable level of personal relationship.

[@arishillermusic]

Congrats, Glenn!!

[@mountaindew7190]

DiAngelo does have something to worry about now . Her "starring role" in Matt Walsh's new film " Am I a Racist?". I would so love for you two to review that film.

[@elcastigador3270]

Just a thought Dr. Loury have you considered doing a presentation for the Great Courses? You remind me of my neighbor, he is a retired Medical Doctor, but your voice and personality are almost identical. Knowing you are an economist I am a man of history, medicine, and economics.

[@martinjohnson5498]

19:30 There are a lot of us Looney Tunes fans out here!

[@carltonferebeejr9572]

You could do some studying and analysis of secondary education. Someone with your academic background could set that arena ablaze

[@Jared_Albert]

U R a brave man Glen. 99% of the rest of us would happily retire in place and take the sabbaticals and the light easy teaching loads....

[@dongrinolds140]

Glen it's sad you are retiring from teaching. Are you the last conservative professor at Brown University?

[@925beats]

Glenn.... Go for 50

[@stephenphillips3883]

I would really love John to sit down with for lack of a better term a right wing attack dog, who in good faith, would flesh out his views under scrutiny. He's so interesting and quite the enigma, I find myself constantly surprised when he speaks because I can't seem to find the thread that ties his world view together. I know how he would describe himself and I know where he stands on many things but there's a lack of consistency for me in his approach to certain topics and people that is baffling. Anyway, another great conversation.

[@name-vi6fs]

On the question of affirmative action and diversity hires. My wife, who happens to be mixed race, is dreading the idea of Kamala becoming the President because she thinks Kamala is a foolish diversity hire.

[@danielwoodard680]

Why not begin each episode with an Update on your health?

[@ninadaly7639]

Guys! Don’t forget the main point here. You can do whatever the hell you want!!!!

[@Smithistory]

Glenn, there's a wonderful BBC documentary on the french revolution. Here on KZbin it's under the title "Terror Robespierre and the French Revolution". It deals with the intellectual reasons behind the big players of the French Revolution. I couldn't recommend it more if you are interested in that.

[@teepee431]

John, Yes, your loyalty to the old fellow is okay, but the chord.

[@johnwashington9292]

We blacks don’t have an affirmative action problem with college entry, but one of taking an honest look at ourselves. I did some racial self-observation about a year ago by pulling up some stats from The Nation’s Report Card to become disenchanted in finding that our 12th graders score lower on all test subjects than all other racial groups. This is by embarrassing percentages. I think that these low-grade scores are linked to a broken black family that is no longer there to set boundaries and instill the desire for learning that was there when I grew up under Jim Crow. Lower homework time and higher school suspension rates for our youth than all other groups back me up on this. And this includes having to pay my grandson to read a book!

[@ninagrace-lee8323]

I think it’s a multifaceted issue. I disagree with the notion that education isn’t prioritized within black communities. I’m not a Boomer, I am a Millennial. All of the programming in grade school and on TV sitcoms assumed black kids should go to college to “make something of themselves” even if they were better suited for trade school. The reality is, black students are under prepared for college work. I went to a great middle school and high school, outperforming my peers handily. I was writing college essays for my cousins when I was in middle school…but I acknowledge that most black people come from underfunded schools that didn’t have access to classes I did. So these students may be motivated but do they have the same access to education at the Pre-k through HS years? Doubtful. So. I think Affirmative Action was a modest way of correcting the issue of access. And I still support it, although it’s no longer applicable now. The real problem has always been disparities in education in formative years

[@ninagrace-lee8323]

Additionally, we see higher rates of black women with degrees conferred than black men. The gap between the genders is widening in that regard. So no, it’s not as simple as saying “blacks don’t care about education.” We do. But you can only educate a child at your own level. We have enough research to show college educated parents use a larger variety of words, which helps with their child’s development under 4 years old. If many black parents today are now being told college is optional, college is a scam, etc etc then I would imagine literacy rates would plummet. And it still doesn’t quite explain the gender gap in educational attainment

[@alexannaz]

Breakdown of the family is only one part of the problem. Even in affleuent two parent Black households, the childern are not pushed due to a number of reasons. White teachers don't understand our children, Blacks don't have to buy into white standards, boys' brain's are not developed, melanin makes us different, black people don't need to be micro managed, ongoing victim playing, etc. Some of the rationale are absurd. Every excuse except learning to compete on a world class level.

[@alexannaz]

@@ninagrace-lee8323 Unfortunately, Blacks have long been underpresented in the trades. Some trades, especially the higher paying ones, are actually harder and require more self discipline to complete than college courses. Many young black men are not equiped to compete in these white male domintated fields where tasks have to be completed in an exact manner and they have to take hard core criticism when they make errors. Many black men end up leaving these programs because they can be so challenging for them. I agree with you that the problems start in the formative years.

[@ds94703]

What was that podcast that John was talking about? "The Rest is History"

[@ds94703]

The Rest is History podcast. ; kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpubnpqwZsp7Y8ksi=in5-a9mETzwf1T53

[@thomaswalker4425]

Professor Loury: "Fire in the Minds of Men" -: J Billington.

[@sifridbassoon]

I wish I could have taken one of Glenn's classes (which I have no background for) and, of course, ono of John's courses (which I do have a bit of a background for). Maybe I can get to one of the UAustin events.

[@atolliver91]

Good… 9:30

[@josephblowseph6123]

WOW, that is amazing John!! I hope your musical endeavor comes to be! Rico 2's as for reeds? (When in Berkeley, CA, John, make sure to visit family of mine and get your clarinet reeds and etc's at Forrests Music on University near MLK.)

[@OkTxSheepLady]

Lol. Welcome to the real world Glenn! No guarantees in the real world of economics.

[@Traderbear]

If you don’t get into your top choice for undergrad, go kick ass and go there as a grad student

[@ninagrace-lee8323]

Unfortunately life doesn’t work that way. For many people, the doors to opportunity begin at your level of undergrad education. It is a pipeline for prestigious law firms, think tanks, consulting firms, etc etc. I work at a prestigious firm with a state college degree but I am an exception to the rule. There’s a reason many black politicians, scholars, etc came from Ivy League universities. Many of them benefited from Affirmative Action, likely the speakers on this podcast included in that.

[@atolliver91]

And that’s the black weakness 46:07

[@scarletsletter4466]

It sounds like social pressure & ageism was applied to make Glenn feel he needs to leave Brown. This is wholly unacceptable & Brown’s administration should be ashamed. Glenn, you’re a highly valued academic, not a fry cook at McDonalds. You don’t need to apply neoliberal principles to yourself at this point. You’ve achieved the status of tenured professor at an Ivy school with multi-billion dollar endowment. You’re allowed, & indeed should be ENCOURAGED, to stay as long as you want and have your retirement account fully funded. Some professors may teach less but have their best ideas & student collaborations in their 80s & 90s - my own grandpa at Princeton was one of those. Furthermore, while you may not like to think of it this way, your presence at Brown as a well known minority economist does matter. It does help young people see a pathway for themselves. Of course you’re not required to be anyone’s avatar, and if you truly want to retire, so be it. But listen to the first few minutes of this podcast- you don’t sound like you’re ready to retire 😢

[@BostonsRaddest]

❤

[@dt6822]

Hey what happened to ebonics? Dont hear any

[@Crossa]

Glenn looks great!

[@eqapo]

socrates probably would've enjoyed doing podcasts

[@xxa455xx]

I'm not 100% sure if DEI et al is truly on the ropes OR if it's just becoming institutionalized. The university still loves this stuff and the university produces the corporate culture.

[@freddieoblivion6122]

If they continue with woke, no one with a brain will take them seriously. We are being held hostage via threats of riot and fear of the truth regarding race.

[@atolliver91]

School has been a crutch…. 12:19

[@billnorris8457]

30m. I hope Glenn attends to finding and being a gardener in the thousand points of light. Then make other Americans of goodwill or proper Judeo-Christain ethics aware. That might mean doing hits of larger popular or mass media. The sort of things Elders should do. I admire the Carson family for engaging in politics. Why American Elders would wade into the swamp and battle the terrible creatures there is selfless. It therefore requires a solid faith foundation. I do not know any of you fine Americans. But I would not have recommended for Dr Candy and Ben. It is a personal sacrifice to the Transcendent Beneficent on the order of committing to nonviolence.

[@scarletsletter4466]

True, I don’t want him to retire but perhaps he can serve in an economic capacity in govt or participate in think tanks (which have more influence than they should)

[@billnorris8457]

@@scarletsletter4466 Agree. But as an Elder, he has earned searching and hopefully discovering his contentment. But that does not get him out of his steamed broccoli ration! This is no time to take the easy way out.

[@scottmitchell1974]

The dream/sentiment about Dolly running for Prez with no mention of her ethnicity WILL happen if Democrats LET IT happen.

[@jamesbarton1969]

My memory of affirmative action was it wasn't meant to give anyone opportunities because of the color of their skin, it was to prevent the denial of earned opportunities because of the color of their skin. I doubt affirmative action was ever meant to be limited to Blacks.

[@ahwhite2022]

Just a minute or so in, and I'm wondering if I just never noted Glenn's chair or if he got a new chair to go with his new office set up. I want to know more about the chair.

[@lawrencetorrance7051]

I feel like these conversations between Glenn and John are losing a little stream.

[@freddieoblivion6122]

Cuz the culture war is coming to an end... the facts can be ignored no longer. The stats prove the tabula raza and noble savage are wrong.

[@richardtardo5170]

I must disagree about “ poor Claudine”, why should students be under zero tolerance for plagiarism and the President ( or any faculty) exempt.

[@sharonmiller1845]

Yes, Glenn!! Please run against Sheldon Whitehouse! He’s awful.

[@teepee431]

Glenn Lowry, what a spectacle, at retirement sounding so like the wretched Trump. So very sad.

[@valuedCustomer2929]

🇻🇦

[@JamesBenedictFitzGerald]

peak woke is not here … yet, Nov 2024 when Harris is president is peak

[@atolliver91]

You turned into Biden…. 10:07