Review - Is Shadows of Change Worth It Now? - Total War Warhammer 3 - DLC

[@TheGreatBookofGrudges]

A massive improvement and it does make me hopeful for future content. Ultimately I feel like it falls just shy of the 25 euro mark mostly because Tzeentch and Kislev didn't get any real updates alongside it. It is much better though and I'd say if you're a big warhammer fan it's something you'd want to buy if you don't already (check for deals online though!) Let's hope CA have learned from this and we'll see bigger and better things come Thrones of Decay. Timestamps in description!

[@DarthEnderX]

My Price Breakdown LLs: $3 LHs: $2 Generic Characters: $.50 Units: $.50 RoRs: $0 So by my calculations, SoC is now worth $25.50

[@Booklat1]

no basegame improvements for Tzeentch and Kislev does hurt a lot.

[@christopherhayes1369]

I think it's a good amount of content for £20, compared to other DLCs. I mean, we can quibble over a fiver but you can spend that on a sandwich and crisps in waitrose these days. Just delighted they took action

[@Lukashoffmann94]

@@christopherhayes1369 It's not. We are missing the massive reworks of game 2 lord packs, let alone a 25 bucks equivalent. They won't even be able to tackle a forth of the empire, dwarfs and nurgle problems with those kind of updates.

[@parttimehero8640]

I still think that Kislev still feels weird. Mother Ostankja theme of spucky monsters would be nice but as it stands she just feels out of place.... I think that she's the most out of place LL

[@Lothi66]

I really like the idea of ​​some factions receiving units from the DLC even if they are not part of it. Thanks to this, beastmen or chaos warriors will be passively diversified with new additions. I think that the creators could be tempted to take bolder actions in this style, the bestiary of the Warhammer world is huge.

[@Eclipsed_Embers]

one could argue that this kind of thing should be taken even further like in terms of new units Ostankya's Things in the Woods also fit the Beastmen and Be'lakor (I think they were most associated with Be'lakor in the lore) and the Changeling's Cockatrices are certainly fitting for the Beastmen then there's stuff like the Incarnate Elemental of Beasts which should've gone to the Empire too (in the lore and tabletop it was always an Empire and Beastmen unit so it's really puzzling that Kislev and the Beastmen got it but not the Empire). it could even be argued that any race with access to the Lore of Beasts (so Empire, Vampire Counts, Warriors of Chaos (only access is due to the Blue Scribes' random spells), Brettonia, Wood Elves, High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Kislev, Tzeentch (only access is through Kairos's fragments, Changeling's different forms, and Blue Scribes' random spells), Daemons of Chaos (only access is through the Blue Scribes' random spells), and Ogre Kingdoms) should've gotten access to it same goes for the other Incarnate Elementals if/when we get them (I think the Incarnate Elemental of Death has a very real chance of being in Thrones of Decay as it'd frankly be a fitting unit for either the Empire or Nurgle)

[@ninsanity8184]

I am STUNNED CA repented and nearly doubled (?) the content. When does a triple A company do that? The community does have influence. Well done everyone!

[@sliceofdice9135]

paradox. they try to rip off their customers little by little. When it is like, wow we went too much. pull back recover for a bit. then start ripping off again till we cross the line again. we still didn't get a proper rework for the 3 races. so its still not worth 25. if they added all this content plus rework of the 3 races and their vanilla lord mechanics. yeah i will buy immediately 25 bucks if they did all that.

[@G1ingy]

On one hand, doubling the content does sound like a lot. On the other hand...even this doubled content still makes me question whether the DLC is worth the price...3 of the content are just legendary heroes only, and in all honesty, the original offering was such a small amount (also for $25) that doubling that amount is as gargantuan as it sounds at first. ...mixed feelings overall. It's stunning that CA admitted they screwed up and tried to do better, but it's also stunning they thought they could trick us into shelling $25 for their original offerings in the first place.

[@marshallvorwaerts]

That’s true but it doesn’t change the fact that it should’ve been like this from the beginning. So they just put in the work they actually should’ve done before later after everything went to shits. Only then they realized and that there was no other option for them than doing this therefore I’m not even impressed at all. I still don’t see the price justifying this content….. we just gotta look at what modders are capable to do for free in comparison….

[@jarosawmarekgopek6639]

CDPRed ;) but yea, it is very well played by CA, hope for Throne of Decay now :)

[@AgoraphobicNews]

Are you also STUNNED that the DLC price is almost HALF THE FULL GAME?

[@Th3_Raven]

Having gotten a chance to play with stuff from the DLC, I think they're closer to the mark, but it only feels like a $20 DLC rather than $25 (USD). Kislev needs a rework to campaign mechanics, which the community has been yelling about since the game dropped, and it seems like CA is deaf to that. The new units will be a nice bump to help filling out the rosters, but it seems like outside of Cathay's research tree, CA really isn't doing a ton towards campaign overhauls.

[@urahi830]

this is still on par, at best, with most high profile mods. They units have horrible clipping too, which looks REALLY bad considering they are basically reskins to begin with. Very few new animations. I dunno, it's definitely better but 25 dollars for a DLC is just outrageous

[@AliothAncalagon]

@@urahi830 At this point the "reskin" argument becomes a caricature of itself. Almost every unit, even those we didn't expect it from, got custom animations. If you don't trust CA yet or just think its too expensive, nobody will blame you. But don't just throw around nonsensical claims.

[@Th3_Raven]

@@urahi830 At best I can say it might be worth $20. I got it off a 3rd party steam key selling site for like $18. I'd say it's probably worth the $18 after the updates (I've had a ton of fun with Changeling and Yuan Bo ngl), but yea, 25 is a large stretch that doesn't feel right.

[@nonesuch6833]

This was the major disappointment for me. It's obvious that both Tzeentch and Kislev need their campaign mechanics overhauled. Tech tree balancing, the pointless devotion race, the Changeling being invincible, everything. I get that the focus from CA's perspective has to be on making the DLC itself worthwhile, but if they aren't getting those mechanics looked at now then when are they?

[@oldmanMikehere]

In Australia a cup of coffee is $6. This is pretty much good enough to cover general wage increases in tech. You don't want your game studio to be closed by Sega due to low profits.

[@AshisME101]

A little off topic, but it seems really odd that the Elemental Incarnate and Bale wolves are available to Katarin, Boris, and Kostaltyn. It feels like Mother Ostankya is supposed to be her own faction within the Kislev sphere, but separate, and it doesn't blend well at all. Is there supposed to be a bridge at some point later? I don't see how they could naturally do it. It feels like they have 3 different, opposing factions within the same faction, Religion/Monarchy/Primal in side Kislev despite the fact that they're supposed to be a new 'unified' Kislev. It's just odd.

[@hatimzeineddine8723]

It's what happens when you try to shove half of Europe into one faction

[@jiado6893]

I can buy Katarin for being a powerful mage and being able to summon what's basically a giant elemental, and Boris by him being the favorite human of a Nature God. I'd say the Incarnate of Beasts works better for Kislev than the Empire, who could field it on the tabletop.

[@nosir5596]

From the blog post they put out recently it seems like GW basically quashed the idea of a separate subfaction. That said, I don't think the tension within Kislev is bad, but it's definitely not translated as well into the game as it could be.

[@runeh3022]

Mostly agree here, but I for one don't miss beaks for Tzaangor beastmen tbh. I think this is being made into a bit of a bigger issue than it deserves.

[@vargknight]

I genuinely don't understand how the beaks thing is even an issue for anyone at all. I had never heard of it being a thing outside of videos on this channel

[@MaMastoast]

I dont really care about it from a lore perspective.. But just in terms of them looking more unique and interesting I would have preferred the beaks

[@fiftyfour2061]

Tbh I see more people talking about beak complaints than I see actual beak complaints. Last thing the game needs is end times content, the wailing and gnashing of teeth would be beyond imagination.

[@iamdopeasfcuk]

plus that seems like something that can easily be fixed with mods

[@toomanyinterests2271]

What if I said that if the beaks were cleared a there was a tiny possibility we could have ended up with multiple new units and maybe a lord or hero, though variants they would have really helped the tzeentch roster. ​@@iamdopeasfcuk if GW has not given the all clear chances are that those mods will be taken down very quickly.

[@Balorian]

Why aren't they adding more to the campaign? I don't need more heroes or units, I need a reason to keep playing past turn 50.

[@ponli7532]

exactly, this . People love to buy lords&units like they are collecting pokimon, this sort of pointless consumerism led to CAs greedy practices in the first place. I want strucutral changes to the base game, improved Sieges primarily. I would pay for that.

[@abbald]

Yes. I think the same. Most of the time, I didn't use the units anyway, because I broke up the campaign. The AI should be more of a threat, so you keep fighting big enemies and keep being busy. Harder difficulties don't make the cut, when the ai are still stupid.

[@bemersonbakebarmen]

The campaign has lost Its meaning in total war after Attila. Thats why some old fans have gone into paradox. Would love to see an Stellaris 40k. Still Warhammer is very fun and what keeps me playing is fighting against different races on the map.

[@abbald]

@@bemersonbakebarmen Might be. I think the campaign in 3K was still something, because the ai attacks you at some point. But in warhammer? I played vampire coast and even nobody likes me, nobody attacks me. I just only have 3 armys but i already steamrolled. Kinda looking for worthy enemys. Last time i was attacked was in warhammer 3 chaos of realm campaign 2 years ago.

[@Tytus_Albas]

I just hope that for Thrones of Decay they do a rework for how Nurgle/Kugath plays. His nurgling buff needs adjustment so they dont have to be within 2 feet of him to get the buff. How the buildings work need some adjustments as well. An adjustment to his economy too for recruiting men, as hes soooooo fucking squishy early game that making it to mid/late game is hard as hell. Cuz some genius decided to have him start next to VAMPIRES that are immune to disease! You lose an army early on to them, and you get steamrolled by the vampires into oblivion.

[@lairoftheobsidianwolf5784]

well he takes up most of his buff circle

[@Weberkooks]

"Race reworks" Never trust a CA roadmap. We got a handful of derivative units, and nothing on the campaign side of the game. I am not happy with this dlc and it's like people have stockholm syndrome praising CA for giving us the bare minimum of what should've been in the original and completelly backtracking on the race reworks we we're promised on the roadmap.

[@PzPewwi]

Its like you’re waving away redundancy. They will do it

[@manfredthegreat]

The new units feel like fresh paint on a rotten old house. I really had hoped for solid faction reworks (especially for Kislev). And ESPECIALLY after 6 months… I really hope for better, more in depth reworks for the dlc factions.

[@fcon2123]

Exactly! A majority of the additional content really are just reskins of existing models - minimal effort put in the centigors, the frost wyrm uses the same model as the ancient salamander, and the Tzeentch hero's extra heads are glaringly static which just makes it look goofy. Outside of the Lore of Hags (which looks like they put real effort into), all the extra stuff could've been done by a talented modder in the same amount of time...hell probably less.

[@the_tactician9858]

​@fcon2123 I agree, but at the same time I feel like this is to be expected... I imagine CA spent a lot of time debating among themselves if and how to respond, and opted for things that can be added quickly without much trouble. We'll have to see if Thrones of Decay brings along true reworks. I'm inclined to believe the Empire and the Dwarfs will, but I have ill hope for Nurgle getting an update, which sucks.

[@Trident121]

Old world mod will save this game in the long run

[@2prize]

I only care about new units 🤩

[@fcon2123]

@@the_tactician9858 Yeah, that's a good point. I get that they had to do something quickly. My only viable counterpoint is that if they know they couldn't deliver anything better, why not drop the price by like $5 then? That would've garnered just as much good will amongst the community.

[@samhobbs9116]

Race reworks are worth more than 3 more units I won't use.

[@sauldownbadman876]

It still fills in the world abit though, and you might end up using them in a garrison etc

[@BearPawSwipe]

I agree. They missed the mark completely on the most important aspect.

[@Weberkooks]

@@BearPawSwipeYeah I don't understand the gushing praise their getting it's like stockholm syndrome. Y'all dont remember they said we were getting RACE REWORKS. That never freaking happened?

[@kapixniecapix3869]

You are right ofcourse. I would definitely use that units at least most of them because I like to have different armies to fight. Do not like 1 unit spam, even though they are powerfull it feals boring. Probably there will be no reworks for thrones of decay so dwarfs stay same for next years.

[@JustFun-wl3jf]

But you dont pay for the race reworks in the dlc, but you could complain about the faction mechanics

[@noavgg]

To be worth the cost it still needs the campaign update. CA should change the dlc to smaller ones with focus on one faction and have them more often.

[@trifide8007]

honestly, i don t get what all the fuss is about tzangors and beaks, it s not like you will be close to them all the time in battle if any at all, they could be stickmen and it would not make a difference, i could understand if it was a big model that you can see fairly well even when unzoomed like big monsters and all but for infantry?

[@wowddo]

I mean, it'd be like greatswords not having those silly hats, I personally despise them but I get why they have them and that some people like it. Not having beaks also implies we'll never be getting other Tzaangor units like the Skyfires which are basically weaker bowshabtis that fly. Not sure we'd get them either way tho as they are AoS but didn't they already add like stuff from early AoS?

[@KK-zs5xz]

They should give Miao Ying and Zhao Ming unique mechanics in a future update. Like researching alchemy for Zhao Ming with uniqe benefits but if you dive too far some negatives

[@ZaydinTTV]

Faction creep isn't exactly new. Look at how Clan Mors, Pestilens and Rictus compare to Clan Skryre, Moulder and Eshin.

[@specialbrick84]

Pretty much in agreement, but man the hangup on the beaks is wild lol. If thats the worst the GW hammer coming down does to this game, happy to let the modders slap a beak on those models.

[@toomanyinterests2271]

The mod would be taken down. If GW gave the all clear for beaks CA could have tried their luck to get Skyfires(archers on disks) and shamans(magic users on disks), heck maybe exalted variants as lords(shaman) and heroes(skyfire) out of GW.

[@Spyros_Michael]

The problem wasnt just with the amount of content, but also with the lack of updates for the factions it covered, which werent fixed in 4.2. The update adds next to nothing to the game if you dont get the dlc.

[@angelopueyygarcia43]

Creamapi, never pay for it

[@christopherboye5498]

@@angelopueyygarcia43 I'd argue it's not even worth playing for free. The DLC campaign mechanics are so mediocre that I'll get bored of them before turn 30.

[@RealCodreX]

​@@christopherboye5498Now that is a delusional take if there ever was one.

[@christopherboye5498]

@@RealCodreX How is it delusional. If the campaign is boring, no price will make up for it. And compared to stuff like the CD, Ikit claw, Grom the Paunch or the Wood Elves, yeah these factions have boring mechanics. Better off replaying good campaigns than wasting time pirating DLC's with poor campaigns.

[@jamesvoysey1707]

Just played Kislev and the new additions are great! Not used lore of hags but the frost wrym is great. And kislevite warriors make for a good line holder/chaff unit. Druizhina is a perfect alternative to a boyar and golden Knight with katarin makes a really good lord hero pairing. I'd add this extra content really adds more to the race than the original content which I felt wasn't needed playing as Katerine.

[@linussyren9221]

So might be an oversight, does the Scribes get access to lore of Hag as well? Id imagine that be easy to miss for them.

[@isthianlyon1706]

I agree with your assessment of overall value. Then I begin spiraling as always remembering all the untouched issues and I'll be looking for a deal for at least $15 on this. I could see spending $20 on thrones if CA keeps up the apology rate of patching, but I'm not sure the company is up to the task of bringing this game back to the potential promised by Warhammer 2. I do know all of this is a losing proposition for Sega. I rarely buy their games already but after being made aware of their pricing strategy I'll be even more cautious moving forward, including with new CA titles.

[@MegaMegatron15]

This DLC is 20$ max and that is still generous, especially with no 4th FLC LL. Back in WH2, a 10$ DLC brought us 2 LLs, one or two LHs, like 3 or 4 units per race, plus a 3rd FLC LL and often a generous race update. SoC is 25$, 150% more expensive. Does SoC have 150% more content? ... *No it still doesn't.* No major race updates and two LLs short. However, it would be a very good deal for 15$ along the previous DLC lines if you ignore the weak race updates. Adjusted for inflation and the extra LHs and it might just barely make 20$.

[@DaleWrecker]

Not all wh2 lord packs had 1 LH, let alone 2. And there were only 3 (4 if you count vanpire counts) major race reworks with the dlcs (empire, greenskins, beastmen).

[@izhidoaisugure4979]

​@@DaleWreckerwood elves too

[@DaleWrecker]

@@izhidoaisugure4979 right, them too. And free LLs is nice and all, but there was Tretch there.

[@TheZomboy11]

Wh 2 dlc also had the issue of both races only getting 1 generic lord or hero not both( shadow and the blade is the only exception) This format is much better when you think about it but should be dropped to 20 bucks

[@ComfortingColourlessLight]

I want to say no but Kislev and Cathay are two of my favorite factions and I never played a Tzeench campaign, so maybe...

[@bernhardwiedmann6395]

I think that now it is reasonable to buy - faction mechanic rework would be cool though. I hope that this current amount of content will be a future standard for DLCs - along with reworks for older factions (Mazdamundi and Tyrion NEED theri own proper mechanics!!!). Looking forward to Thrones of Decay.

[@Foerster44v2]

I mean, I like the new units but unfortunately the lack of badly needed campaign adjustments for at least 2 out of the 3 DLC races has me seriously worried about the future of race updates/reworks.

[@andreir1183]

If they did the factions reworks for kairos, katarin and konstantin; and addressed the campaign problems with the changeling and mother then yeah it would of definitely been worth 25. As it is it's 20 at most; but with the sour taste they left in handling everything i would never get this for more than 15. it's not fair to them but better learn how to treat people well if you want a fair treatment as well.

[@lemurking6896]

Not sure why you said Kislev got one less unit than the other factions - Tzeentch also got 5, whereas only Cathay got 6

[@conworldus8310]

Cathay got 6?

[@joshuachapman247]

Is worth, looking forward to more = content. We are all watching.

[@anamericangrizzlybear8315]

I know this is a contentious topic but If I wanna play Kislev then i'd like to be in Kislev i know some people want campaign variety but if you boot up Kislev then you should expect to fight Chaos, norsca, greenskins and skaven... in Kislev Being placed across the world in Naggaroth feels like such a stretch that it just makes it feel lame, I much rather be fighting as Ostankya in the forests of Kislev against invaders who dare to venture into her woods

[@AliothAncalagon]

I prefer campaign variety, but there are better and worse ways to achieve it. If the core identity of your lord is to defend a country, its of course weird if they aren't even close to said country.

[@youtubevanced4900]

Really makes you wonder what all these units were originally planned to go into. Nickel and diming the dlc into 2 seperate purchases.

[@ZendikarMage42750]

Part of the price for the DLC is the free updates that come along with it and that's still sorely lacking. Might pick it up in a Steam sale in a few years when it's around $15 if I'm still interested in Total War then, but still don't see any reason to come back yet

[@bruuuuuuuuhhhh]

Part of the price is free updates?

[@ZendikarMage42750]

@@bruuuuuuuuhhhh yeah. You're giving them money, thereby supporting the devs to work on stuff to give everyone for free. I was able to swallow some of the price hikes leading up to SoC because they were still updating other parts of the game that needed to be brought into line with current stuff. That work costs the company money, so back when I had good will for CA, I was willing to pay more for DLC since I knew it would help support them continuing to update the game. That doesn't seem to be happening in the same way, therefore I'm not willing to pay more fpr what's actually in the DLC. Hope that makes sense, heh heh

[@capadociaash8003]

If the free update is part of the price it’s not free

[@ZendikarMage42750]

@@capadociaash8003 it's free in the sense that the whole player base doesn't have to pay for it, but do you really think they would continue to update the game if no one bought DLCs? That's why they stopped supporting Three Kingdoms. The update rolls out on the same day so it seems silly to me not to clump all of the work together as what my money is supporting when I buy a DLC. Yes, I could get the free stuff anyway regardless of buying the DLC or not, but CA still spent time, resources, and money on all of it. Buying a DLC is helping to support that work and there's not enough of that on display here to be worth me investing another $25. If there were significant race updates alongside the DLC, that would mean CA put in a lot of effort, thereby earning continued support from me, regardless of what was gated behind buying the DLC

[@joema48]

​​@@ZendikarMage42750what r u on about? The update is only available to those who had already been cheated out of 25 bucks. Nobody outside of that gets the update. They sold a overpriced dlc that very few bought and put threw their reputation in the toilet. In attempt to restore their destroyed reputation and to sell more dlcs, they decided to put in more work. Did you even watch the video you are posted your comment under?

[@conworldus8310]

Is it possible to have the battle map to be procedurally generated by actual campaign location just like Rome 1? For example, if you are fighting near the Great Maw, wouldn't be cool to actually have the Great Maw on the battle map? Also, it would be awesome if things like the Great Maw can have extra interactive benefit like how natural wonders in Civ work.

[@the_tactician9858]

That would require the game to be rebuilt from the ground up, sadly, and Im not sure the engine can handle the extra work it needs to do for it, given how much bigger and detailed a map like Immortal Empires is. Also it was kinda broken on old TW games sometimes, and it was removed in Empire TW already.

[@kickbacklyen8626]

There are many special Quest-Battle-maps and I believe there are plans for more (Gotrek and Felix). Unfortunately, we don't see these maps in Normal-Battles. Is it perhaps possible to add the Quest-Battle to the normal roaster? Variety is always great and many quest battle are great. For Example, I've done the Tretch Craventail Quest-Battle and it's a beautiful, big map and can maybe be a tier one Siege Battle Map for the Greenskins or maybe a normal Land battle for the Greenskins on the mountains.

[@epicmusiclover]

I am personally not very interested in content of cathay or Tceentch, as i play them the least, but the for sake of Kislev this content was really a good, glowing up. I did not buy the dlc ( still hasnt) because of the whole situation the CA gave off with from the beginning of shadows of change, but i did not exspect them ever to actully go ahead and add even more content to it. What makes it better is that they actully listen to the talk from content creators like you and loremaster of Sotek in regards of making this DLC better, which give me more trust in them. But i think they still got a long way to go in regards of the A.I in the game AND for the sake of future DLC’s they might bring to WH3. God i think type forever on behalf of the ****** A.I there is in this game…

[@vexingvillain2758]

I’m still worried just because there is soooo much more that needs to be fixed or reworked and unless they start pumping out reworks for races and lords that need a little bit of uniqueness or better mechanics added to them for every major patch (I know they want a “vanilla” lord for each race but they gave Queek something extra so I think some kind of mechanic can be given to the basic lords and it’s just so lame that characters like Maliketh have nothing going for them) but even though they said they’d be making factions more unique when they updated Queek they rly haven’t done that again since

[@liofalba]

Yeah, seems like all uniqueness will be DLC based. I mean DE might get some stuff if they get a DLC, same with lizards, but still I think the TWW2 updates aren’t happening

[@jacksonthomas1851]

I bought it originally because I wanted the new units and stuff to play with for a game I enjoy. That said I understood everyones gripe with the situation. With that said I love the additions to each roster and it makes me excited for TOD and the stuff coming down the line for Khorne, Greenskins, Slaanesh and the elves. Just have to finish work and get through the day and then I will be playing the game.

[@tonisauna-aho3899]

Same thoughts. Well put

[@Dacijo]

It is madness you can't select multiple starting zones for each lord at this point.

[@Drakenn100]

The problem I have is that all three of these factions desperatly needed A REWORK. Yes, additional units are cool, but the factions are broken (cathay has gotten a minor rework, it's not perfect and the caravan system and compass are still dogshit but it's an ok race now). What this dlc tells me is that when throne of decay will come out, nurgle will stay shit, the empire will probably get a minor rework just like cathay and the dwarves will keep being unplayable...

[@deusvult6164]

The dwarfes are far from unplayable imo they are just incredibly boring but they are strong. Empire is strong as well but its boring as well. For nurgle well playing nurgle is the worst time I had playing this game. Early game is incredibly tedious while lategame is not that great either and its a shame bc Nurgle was the faction I was looking forward to the most

[@kapixniecapix3869]

Yep you are mostly right. For reworks you should go for workshop I gues. I think I'll give a shot a new empire mod one day. I dont think I need CA anymore. Even though the mods are extremly unstable for me I still prefer it to pay 25$ for low effort dlc. Maybe I should just play one at the time not like I did last, something around 40 that include reworks for lot of faction and lot of new faction as well.

[@Drakenn100]

And for the price : this much content is very good for 15€, it's barely acceptable for 20€, it's still an insult for 25€. What make us play the game are the campaigns = the legendary lords. 3 legendary lords, as "uniques" as they may be will never deserve more than 15€, even more when it's not for a completely new race and when their replayability is nowhere to be seen (looking at you changeling). Adding "big names" as heros is cool, but it's just fluff, you won't replay many times because of a hero, no matter how cool he is. You will replay many time an excellent lord.

[@Drakenn100]

@@deusvult6164 line of sight is fucked, making every gunpower unit very unrelyable (compared to tww1 and 2), the economy is fucked, the book is fucked, the teck tree is a nightmare.

[@BearPawSwipe]

My conspiracy is they pulled the units out and then are going to gaslight us when the reworks end up in another DLC pack.

[@recreantraze5248]

Still no major race reworks.

[@janusregno169]

Doesn;t seem to have been mentioned but Vilitch (At least, didn't check the multi-god ones) also gets access to both the Centigors of Tzeentch (As warband) and Changebringers (Through gifts).

[@benjitheband5661]

Who woulda thought we would need another bear mount? Wasn’t on my 2024 bingo card

[@Arcanespaghetti]

I wonder if later on we’ll get Terracotta “Watchers” based on saytang as a form of Artillery. I hope so I think it’d be pretty fun (super expensive tho) to have an amry of just watchers and sentinels

[@leonfriedemann9151]

Cool lore of hags, cool new units mostly, but where is the race update? Kislev??? If they do the same in thrones of decay we'll have the same situation as shadows of change even if they hold to the promise of a ton more units. Races need updates and in tod they all 3 need big updates! 🙄 25 to much in my opinion Stil.

[@youtubevanced4900]

I can’t believe they aren’t running a proper sale in conjunction with this release.

[@Rastous]

It's nice they added the units but it's the core experience that needs updated. With so many races now then each won't get looked at often so they need to be touching them up at least with each DLC. When would we next get a Tzeentch DLC? I find I'm using mods more and more which then makes this far less worth it as already adding so many more units and fixes than CA does with 6+ months of waiting?

[@7rav7]

Let me make a summary of this dlc and update: "let's talk about the FLC" - ends 1 min later after showing 2 units and basically no faction wide free mechanics or reworks that impact upon everybody. That is the absolute state of this game and this company. CA made a conscious decision to STRIP any form of free content from the DLC - because they will sure as hell never make the mistakes of WH 2 ever again. No no. I would not be surprised if they were to release an AI update locked behind a DLC.

[@Dejawolfs]

eh. well. we got tons of units. most of them are just reskins that you use the same damn way anyways. what it'd really like to see is some unique goddamn maps and map mechanics. dwarven fortresses that feels like dwarven forts. multiple fortress walls, where you have to breach multiple layers of fortress. like in medieval 2. more interesting situations, more chokepoints with more slowly destructible barriers allowing defence in depth.

[@draegoth]

I couldn't care less about shiny new units when the game is still a buggy ass mess, fix up the base first.

[@HamlettheOmelette]

I agree with pretty much everything you said. What keeps this game alive is the base campaign experience. If CA neglect it only to add more content instead of fixing issues and reworking boring factions/mechanics, the game will suffer. I’m still waiting for CA to replace the trash additional army upkeep system with what they made in Troy. Sieges also still have a lot of flaws. For sieges, if they’d make walls completely destroyable and make gates only one open manually instead of opening automatically, it’d go a long way to make them less frustrating.

[@BearPawSwipe]

Adding units was the low effort action in my opinion. They should have done reworks and that would have justified the full cost. TBH, the units feeling they were already in the pipeline & they just moved up into SoC & probably ToD, my conspiracy of course. I cannot wait to see what they are doing with ToD especially with some of the most important reworks XD.

[@Razielts1]

Indeed, I didn't realize that the tzaangors were bestigor level, so the nerf seems stupid. Because the use I see for them is firing a Malagor campaign and making him tzeentch themed using all the tzeentch aligned beastmen. So I hope they roll that back. Especially because then they get replaced by bestigors.

[@TheChremix]

I dont understand why we can´t have hag mothers just call them something different like hag sisters/daugters so ostankia is still the only hag mother but having normal soldiers lead an monster army in Kislev is just really strange

[@TheFlyingKipper]

Easy answer:Games Workshop sadly Hard Answer: Games Workshop Annoyingly

[@TheChremix]

@@TheFlyingKipper Yeah sadly but I can´t understand why they don´t whant a fitting hag or witch lord

[@SunlessSage]

It sounds like CA wanted to add those, but GW said no. It's probably similar to not giving Tzaangors a beak.

[@TheChremix]

@@SunlessSage but why having a hero version and not a lord verion?

[@the_tactician9858]

​​@@TheChremix Lore, I believe. Old lore had multiple Hag Mothers, but in the revised lore Ostankya is the one and only Hag Mother of Kislev, at least according to GW. And I think that includes calling it different names. GW is really strict on that, it seems.

[@ZaydinTTV]

I think the reason Ostankya starts in Naggarond is because CA wanted to have some diversity in enemies Kislev could fight. After all, if she started in or near Kislev in IE, people would complain that all the Kislievite LLs fight the same enemies. Feels like CA picked the least bad option from a gameplay perspective.

[@LordOmnissiah]

They made a comment on Warhammer Community that the Kislev and Cathay tabletop books ain’t coming, or at least not for a long while. It’s under the post announcing this patch.

[@thehonestaspy102]

I'm glad they took the note that not everyone needs a bear but the Golden Knight seems like one of the few who should really have one. As always thank you for the video Nathan, your insightful look into the game is always appreciated!

[@jamiemgr]

If this is all they can manage in 6 months, I don't hold much hope for the future. Still not worth the price. We need some proper reworks for the older factions.

[@geminijim6655]

they have done nothing really, they haven't antagonized the fanbase in a few months that's it. but everyone is willing to forgive them and shill for them again, it is really sad.

[@Razielts1]

26:59 agree 100. I haven't heard any news about CA reworking technologies that are related to realms of chaos like " do more x against y faction" That's an example of what should've been approached with this dlc

[@ratatouille8945]

The elemental of beasts was kislevs main monster hunter. Why would they change him to anti infantry when we already have the elemental bear and the frost wyrm

[@tenaciousgamer6892]

I don't think the book has anything to do with development I am unsure how paying a writer to write something is the same as making a new unit or mission. It's purely promotion so it comes out of the advertising budget not the development one.

[@AnthonyConstable]

I am enjoying the Mother Obstankya campaign in the... Not immortal empires map. It is tough at the start but fun.

[@theophiledumont3291]

I have a very harsh statement over the game. The game was built with holes and key content missing to make dlcs. The game structure is made to sell dlc so for me CA can only show its commitement to change in a brand new game. But it is definetly a very good step toward reconciliation. I hope we will see proper change for key aspect of the game such as ratling fall animation, pathfinding during sieges. Units going idle during battle. Shooting units who wont fire despite clear field of fire. Battles take ages to load and seconds to fight. But in terms of content they did the right thing by bringing it up. Is it worth 25 bucks ... still no. It's half a game worth of money for a dlc that really isn't half a game. 15 euros seems like a better price and 10 euros for a dual legendary lord seems correct. Anyway i am a capricious bastard of the old guard so i can never be satisfied.

[@quintonmaldonado8368]

Does anyone know why the first unholy manifestation for Kairos isnt working? Do i need to unlock some technology or something? Even though it says I can use it I cannot select an army to use it on. I don't get the little bubble ping on my army, only for the other ones does it work.

[@Crucial_End]

Make sure that the army is inside enemy territory. Last time I played that was an requirement for it to work.

[@quintonmaldonado8368]

@@Crucial_End thank you

[@dathremo.]

yeah they need to let you pick which theatre you start in as the Changeling - I think all of the demons should have some method similar to Be'lakor for getting around the map faster as sometimes you want to do specific things in specific places - giving players more ways to play and craft campaigns they are interested in is a good thing CA need to wake up to that

[@zulphar4127]

Mother ostankya's rampage hex makes enemy units useless for the entire battle since rampage was reworked and makes units wander around aimlessly

[@MrValkilmer35]

The price is a hurdle ($36AU) but personally it's more about the factions involved. I generally dont like the chaos factions and havent gotten into Cathay but I do like Kislev so I think I'll wait for a sale if i'd only play at most 2 out of the 3 factions. I'm curious about the Empire and Dwarf updates in the next DLC--if its awesome on day one i dont mind paying the full DLC price as long as I like whats in it.

[@jacobtrost5048]

I'm wondering if CA / Games Workshop is witholding AoS content because they're already planning a Total War or similar Age of Sigmar game, and want to save those assets for that.

[@christopherboye5498]

I don't think so. I still feel that the price is too high for the amount of units the DLC introduces, and the campaigns they came with are lackluster. Looks to me as if CA are ignoring campaign features such as the AI or race/faction mechanics as well, which arguably makes it worse. Tzeentch and Kislev's campaign mechanics aren't great and they need some rework.

[@CommanderBohn]

Still bummed about Kislev, but the Golden Knight and Lore of Hags somehow mitigate it to an extent.

[@sniperbob4737]

I got it after the update news hit at Christmas for £15. Played just the changeling then as I had some free time. Was Ok, nearly finished his campaign. Not played since and re-started today. But I can't in good faith give this a positive review. I used to buy all DLC on release, waiting 6months for a sale? Previously by the changeling had a really annoying bug meaning you couldn't fully scroll through all your provinces. Considering you end up with a really fractured empire due to the mechanics it started to really do my head in around turn 100. If that's still in, then no chance for a positive steam review.

[@MarineCARMINE]

The Nurgle melee lord and magic hero better look as amazing as the Tzeentch additions for the upcoming DLC.

[@liofalba]

So what’s up to the Slaanesh DLC? Being pushed back in lieu of a race-pack DLC

[@SerLoinSteak]

I want to like the Changeling, but I just don't like not being able to hold territory. If you could choose to either capture a location or establish a cult, I would like it a lot more. And I know it can be done because the Vampire Coast does this

[@seraph85]

I've always thought $25 is a fair price for the DLC given the market over all. The Sims charges $40 for dlc that doesn't even work. If $25 is too much for you wait a few months for a steam sale.

[@MaMastoast]

the AAA market in general isnt charging fair prices for most things these days.

[@r.j.macready]

Man he just cannot get over The Thing in The Woods not being a specificly chaos aligned freak huh?

[@pavlepavlovic4073]

Great review, I think you could be a pretty good video game reviewer, pretty chill to listen to. 😀 Anyway back to the point of the video. I do agree that the content feels more like 20 rather 25 bucks value. But on the positive note, I was surprised that CA revisited this and actually improved the content. Granted I do believe there should have been a much mugger rework of the flagship races, and even adding more uniqueness to preexisting faction (eg. patriarch training or something for Kostaltyn or some sort of cleansing of Chaos Wastes for Boris). Nevertheless this is a major step up from CA. however, I think moving forward with ToD they will have to step up on not only racial reworks, but also on fixing and realizing more stuff, such as values of things, and doing more work on core mechanics. FLC being a LL is a good move, but despite that they will need to offer more beyond the DLC content. If WH2 was able to do it, so can WH3, it has not.

[@jdurthu4304]

Of we only got Cocotrice for beastmen we could make just whole tzench beastmen atmies with those + shamans. Bit I will juat slap some chaos spawn and it will do. Can not wait untill we will be able to make full dedicated armies with Beastmen

[@marcbartuschka6372]

I think it is worth it now. We could not realy hope that prices stay always the same in these times, and if future DLC would get same content as Shadow of Change now I think it would fair

[@patchesgaming9139]

I'm getting fed up that we're only getting one or two DLCs every year or two if we're lucky. Until CA gets back on track and finishes their roadmap I'm not happy tbh.

[@djordjebojovic4768]

I still really hate the lord placement on the Immortal Empires, Kislev factions get completely destroyed by the time you reach them if you play someone far away, Cathay stays alive but Lustria and the Lizardmen are completely gone by turn 50, adding Yuan Bo there doesn't help at all. It feels really bad when you reach faction homelands and find everyone but said faction there. IMO Ostankya should have started where she does in realms of chaos to reduce chaos steamroll over Kislev. Yuan Bo and Changeling should have started both in the middle of Cathay to diversify the region a bit

[@anon_234]

The MP description for Things in the Woods clearly states they are chaos creatures. There's no "open to interpretation" about it, it clearly says their connection to chaos is undeniable.

[@aersla1731]

I don't know why the beastman don't get access to the khorne beastman. Enough with the becks though lol. I'm seeing myself being a bit more optimistic about thrones lf decay.

[@Marlerc11]

I bought it to support CAs decision to try and rectify the initial release. Worth it to me

[@ddok907]

I feel like the faction aspect of this game would be perfect if each faction had some unique units

[@RPesh02]

Will they do a khorne or slaanesh theme dlc?

[@Slie1988]

Honestly, just the addition of the basic spearmen for Kislev is making mother ostankya campaign far more enjoyable than it was. I was one of the people that bought it full price originally and I don't regret that decision after this update.

[@elmanhux]

while RoR are just a reskin I would love to know about those of em having an actual interesting story behind them (would be great if that was more than just 2 sentences)

[@Crucial_End]

Personally no the races that this DLC focus on are not well designed at all except maybe for Cathay and no amount of new units will fix those core issues. If CA had reworked them then yeah absolutely the DLC would be worth the price. I wont be buying this DLC and most likely no other aswell untill we see CA fixing bad faction mechanics and other base game issues.

[@TheJohnmurphy516]

they should have put mother stanky in a new magical forest some where east of praug or at the very least add a magical forest out there and give you the option to move there early. also the changling should have the option to be given a normal campaign

[@redkidneys8389]

Feels funny CA does the warhammer fantasy setting more justice than GW.

[@jeffreymilliman2306]

I can't speak for anyone else, but the price is only part of why I don't want to buy the DLC (or, at this point, even reinstall the game). A big part of it for me is the attitude that CA displayed to the players; the bans, the condescending and threatening press releases, the lack of communications and updates, etc. It's going to take a LOT more than a handful of reskinned units tacked onto a lackluster DLC to regain my trust and money after how the company has been behaving since the launch of TW:W3, if not even earlier. Having said that, I'm grateful for your continued coverage of the game and your dedication to maintaining a positive attitude. I may not be playing the game right now, but I still check in to watch your coverage of it.

[@komitadji]

Great. So when is the next Skulls promotion on Warhammer games likely to be?

[@vargknight]

In my opinion it's still not worth the price. Sure, it's good they added more stuff, but let's be clear, they only did so because they took a few financial hits over the year with Pharoah and whatever that shooter game wasf, so they needed to get some credit back with the fans. There's no way they would have bothered otherwise. If you look at the content it's still not on the same level as Champions of Chaos, which at almost half the price was actually about right for what you got I would say. It's not even the same as Chaos Dwarfs, which I think is itself still over priced but at least the fact it's adding in a whole new race and mechanics can kind of be justified. The next DLC needs to be a huge step up, or just cheaper, otherwise they are going to get the same backlash again. EDIT: Just got to the end and you said blue horrors weren't a thing in Warhammer fantasy, you are 100% wrong, I literally had them when I used to play tabletop back in the 90's. And these were not just pink horrors painted blue, they literally had their own models.

[@LiquidShad]

Woah thanks TGBoG, I didn't know Saytang was a "Legendary Lord" 😆

[@David-u6e5e]

This is about the same as the CDs so, fair enough. If I get this most content for the next one I'll be happy.

[@AliothAncalagon]

Personally I think ToD will look even better, because they can present the entire DLC at once, not cut into two pieces with half a year in between. The biggest question for me is if we can rely on CA to hold this standard and if they learned their lesson for good.

[@alpharius2omegaboogaloo384]

@@AliothAncalagonKnowing CA… probably not. But we can definitely hope I guess

[@AliothAncalagon]

@@alpharius2omegaboogaloo384 I think its at least not unreasonable to think that they might have learned their lesson for the remaining lifecycle of Warhammer 3.

[@Lukashoffmann94]

@@AliothAncalagonGonna be the other way around, if ToD doesn’t have more content. They would once again be flamed for the nonexistent reworks and rightfully so.

[@AliothAncalagon]

@@Lukashoffmann94 So you are assuming, that there will be no reworks? I would consider that a rather bold bet.

[@Captain_Sosuke_Aizen]

Bottomline is There is really nothing in Warhammer 3 for a lot of people like myself to get exited about. Nippon, Nagas or Ind(personal interest) would have given something for us to look forward to.

[@StroggKingu]

Too bad that for freelooters, only got Katarina Sleds is new, it would be nice to get those basic halberds too. Can't say about the rest of races included, haven't played them much.

[@unifieddynasty]

Essentially, not worth full price, but there are always sales and discount codes, so might as well buy it.

[@nordicpush1452]

Its good to see, changes are good but we should remeber it had place... Ill look much closer before i buy their next dlc also after all dlc/pharaon drama chances im gonna any preorder from then is much lower, prob wont happen...

[@kapixniecapix3869]

Why are buing preorders at the first place? Gamers have only own to blame.

[@dEcmircEd]

you care too much about content and completeness and to little about balancing and mechanics

[@newnamesameperson397]

The changeling is the most busted and unfun campaign/faction ever. The fact that you are practically invisible and undetectable makes it not challenging at all

[@YupSsBlAzin17]

What is the free legendary lord ?

[@via_negativa6183]

Its still not worth that amount of money for a unit pack im sorry its just not. I can buy last epoch for in my country for 4 dollars more and thats insane. Its worth it for a reasonable price...

[@KhorgosKhul]

Sigvald and the champions of Chaos being playable to monogods also would make everything perfect.