Rhett & Link Give Their Atheist Testimony | Doug Wilson

[@CanonPress]

Check out Doug's book on evolution, "The Other Side of the Coyne" today! canonpress.com/products/other-side-of-the-coyne/

[@suaptoest]

Unfortunately, I didn’t find any content on how you teach. Many conflicting doctrines are taught as Christianity. From this perspective, not everyone can be the truth.

[@saintburnsy2468]

Is this book for or against evolution? (I looked at the synopsis but it wasn't obvious). If it's against, I suggest to Doug that he submit a scholarly article to an evolutionary biology journal. He would become very famous indeed if he presented evidence that upended the entirety of evolutionary thought. It'd be a feat of Nobel Prize levels of impressiveness.

[@saintburnsy2468]

@@suaptoest Very true, all those conflicting doctrines. God is not the author of confusion! (1 Corinthians)

[@saintburnsy2468]

@@seriouslyiknowhowtoread I've been learning about the Jewish understanding of these things, and it makes much, much more sense to me than it does in Christianity. Their concept of Satan, of heaven & hell, etc. When I look back at Christianity, it all sounds like a big misunderstanding of the Hebrew Bible. That had to be fixed with a patchwork of strange justifying doctrines.

[@saintburnsy2468]

@@seriouslyiknowhowtoread Yeah, I've noticed that in studying the Bible with Christian resources. They'll subtly give little winks and nods along the way as to imply, "this part of the Hebrew Bible is about Jesus 😉" It seems that Christianity started with the assumption that Jesus was the Messiah, then reinterpreted _everything_ to make it all fit together. And the result is, to put it lightly, kind of a theological mess. I personally remain unconvinced of any sort of "God", whatever that even is, but the more I look into the Jewish understanding, the more sympathetic I feel towards it. At least, relative to Christianity, which doesn't really say much haha

[@wynniwagner2003]

I was raised in an easy believism atmosphere. I always believed in God, I just hated Him. I thought He was hard and cold ( like my father) I had a Damascus road experience. I hit rock bottom coming off of meth, nobody to call out to. God showed me how righteous and holy He was and how unrighteous and unholy I was! I was crushed. I was under conviction for a week but I begged Jesus to save and forgive me and a house was lifted off of my shoulders. He met me right there in my mess. I was 42. My running is over. I mean, I run to my Father. He is so merciful and good to us unworthy, needy, lepros, blind beggars. It took me 5 years to unlearn so much garbage. I read God's word for myself and I am reformed. I still am amazed that He could love the likes of me. Blessed be His Holy Name!! Thank you Doug. You are in my arsenal of faithful teachers. I imagine there are more out here like myself , growing up in churches run by goats ...

[@jrob00]

Praise the Lord!!

[@gandalfthegrey2171]

Praise God, thanks for sharing. It does break my heart to think of shepherds leading others astray. But thankfully God is powerful over all things and still calls his lost sheep home.

[@jasondowns940]

That’s the true gospel right there!

[@wynniwagner2003]

@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC God is so merciful and gracious to me. I deserve hell, but I get mercy. No greater love than this. Be blessed, beloved...

[@wynniwagner2003]

@KTTGHMTJWYCBLAC yes. I was changed in an instant. God is so good to me. Be blessed, beloved...

[@cincinnatusrex8568]

Give that guy credit for one thing: He courageously admits that, by virtue of his beliefs, he is no longer a Christian. Many "progressive Christians" ought to make the same admission. I hope to love them all the same, but they might as well be honest.

[@drewwilson6639]

Couldn't agree more! So called progressive Christianity is incredibly deceptive, it makes no sense why these people still call themselves Christians

[@einarabelc5]

Is the only consequent thing to do. That's what the bald "Secular Humanist" guy, who never was a Christian to begin with, says at the end of American Gospel: Christ Crucified movie.

[@kieranvr8663]

underrated comment

[@DaysofElijah317]

Yes most of them would be in the Church of Laodicea which is dead.

[@theeclecticcollective8279]

“You just have to take my word for it.” Said the guy who “totally doesn’t operate by faith anymore” and refuses to take God’s word for it.

[@tonybasoni8443]

TEC,......All those snared into all the churches operate not on faith in God and his word, they all operate on a 100% trust, and faith in the Godless, God hating world. They have all been deceived into thinking their faith is in God, it is not, it is in themselves and their fellow evil, corrupt, ungodly mankind.

[@TheJpep2424]

True Christians faith in is in God. Anyone trusting in self isn't a Christian.

[@saintburnsy2468]

Is your only problem with his statement his hypocrisy? Or also that he might have faith that there isn't a God? Cos if he has faith that there isn't a God, it's no different than having faith that there is. Both are ridiculous. Faith- believing something without evidence (or nowadays, despite the evidence)- is ridiculous.

[@tonybasoni8443]

@@saintburnsy2468 ,.......Correct, believing the Bible (Christianity) and rejecting the Bible and believing in atheism are both the same things. They are just two different religions, two different belief systems. One the religion of Gods people, and the other the religion of God hating, evil, corrupt mankind. There is no evidence for atheism, all evidence points to the truth of the Bible, but there is no proof. God requires faith, and if there were proof, then no faith would be required. The Bible is the only truth mankind has, everything else is a lie and deception and the fables of Godless, God hating mankind. Whatever it is that you believe is a lie and a deception, and is ridiculous. The Bible is the only truth there is. Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand!

[@saintburnsy2468]

@@tonybasoni8443 Why do you believe that the Bible specifically is the Word of God?

[@capncrnch91]

Having listened to all their deconstruction vids, this was kind of a cheap shot at some of their shallowest points, and the result is a misrepresentation. Rhett actually does go into some specific scientific issues he found compelling and foundational, but none of that is shown here. Most of it has to do with Francis Collins’ book about DNA, faith, and evolution. I would have liked Doug to address those bits instead. I only say this because I wrestled with 2 years of very intensive doubt and my path mirrored Rhett’s in many ways,... accept I never found reason to straight up deny Christ. He’s the most compelling figure in all of history and as I continued praying and my knowledge of the bible and our world and secular dogma increased, I still found Him to be God in the flesh. Pray for Rhett and Link. (Doug’s work helped me in many ways. I was wrestling during the days that he did his debate with Hitchens).

[@brich2542]

Are you born again? People aren't argued into the Kingdom of God.

[@vanessaburdine4865]

This is my story as well

[@John-vj6ss]

I came from an atheist view to Christ through science, ACTUAL science in practice, not the pop-science that most people worship. The idiotic snippets of half-truths told in the media and spread online. Evolution was actually the lynchpin. I watched a silly documentary called No Intelligence Allowed. I was aghast that science, as an industry, would disallow independent thought and inquiry in such an unbelievable manner. I was an evolution believer. I had never questioned it. Well, that got me questioning it, and a whole lot more. Long story short, I came to find that “science” as an industry, not the tool it actually is, is actually strutting around on the stage buck naked and no one has the guts to call them out on it. My false idol “science” was struck low, very low. Today I believe science is an amazing tool, a gift from God, that lets us peer, just a tiny bit, into His mind. He gives us a tiny view, a bit of knowledge of how He made this universe, how He made us. It’s beautiful when used correctly. How differently I view the world with this new understanding. I always appreciated the beauty of creation. But now that I know Him who created it, it’s breathtaking.

[@gavin_hill]

@bdunnnofun if you are interested in some deep scientific dicscussions on a Christian level I would suggest "Logical Plausible Possible". This was a reaction video not a debate..

[@colton7373]

@@brich2542 Paul says “knowing the terror of the Lord, we persuade men”

[@paulmcwhorter]

In general I dont take spiritual advice from men with man buns. Maybe it is just me, but it has served me well so far in my life. While maybe not always true, in general I find stodgy old men with beards better people to learn from. God bless, we are greatly blessed by your videos.

[@theresa42213]

Paul ~ xD

[@keithwilson6060]

The old proverb that you can’t judge a book by its cover is highly flawed. You can judge people by how they CHOOSE to appear, when multiple options are possible.

[@PayNoTax-GetNoVote]

@@keithwilson6060 - I thought it was 'DON'T judge a book by its cover.' But that saying admonishes you not to prejudge, but nothing about using your prior experience as a guide for the future. Minor technicality but relevant I think. I scored off the charts racist in the personality tests, before I got married, but the only reason my wife married me when she saw that was because she saw that's not how I live my life. It's been a few decades but as I recall, the questions were set up more like "cultural" questions and I do believe there is a huge chasm between cultures. However, I live my life allowing the individual to prove THEMSELVES and the content of their character. Unfortunately, I have been seriously disappointed and ripped off by some types so no longer seek engagement. This life experience has only furthered my belief. All cultures have good and bad, some just more than others and, unfortunately, usually the bad have a very strong influence.

[@PayNoTax-GetNoVote]

Sage advice, Paul.

[@keithwilson6060]

@@PayNoTax-GetNoVote You most definitely can use the characteristics of a entire group of people based on prior experience as a proxy for how you initially respond to any member of that group. Even Jessie Jackson admitted that he felt uncomfortable being followed down the street by people of a specific race, his own. I don’t generally watch it, but there was an excellent sketch on SNL within the past couple of years where a middle-class white man stops at a walk-in ATM kiosk late at night for a cash withdrawal. He was followed in by a non-descript black man, and the white guy offered the black man to go first in an obvious strategy to get him out of the vicinity before he used the ATM. A tense standoff occurred before the tensions were mutually relieved, with the black man feeling exonerated for pointing out the unstated “racism” in the motive. After the white man left with his cash, a group of obnoxious, obviously ghetto-cultured black males entered the kiosk, and the shoe was immediately on the other foot. The black guy acted EXACTLY like the white man earlier. It was brutal, but true.

[@jamessheffield4173]

I was raised an atheist, then Christ came to me. Amen.

[@sylvainboucher2935]

I was raised a catholic, then Light came to me. 666

[@jamessheffield4173]

@@sylvainboucher2935 Make sure it's the light of the Word. Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

[@sylvainboucher2935]

@@jamessheffield4173 thanks for the response, but my english is not that good so i'm not sure what it mean. I just don't like mr. Wilson's attitude. Paternalistic and patronizing. In Québec we already have the french people who have this attitude With us.

[@jamessheffield4173]

@@sylvainboucher2935 Keep reasing the Bible in your own language. God bless.

[@ClaimClam]

Many Churches are heretical, beware

[@treperry9393]

My favorite part is when Doug says he agrees it’s healthier not to react to people in his reaction video.

[@richowensIII]

Would be very interested in hearing Pastor Doug's response to Rhett's original "Deconstruction" video. Rhett went into depth about science, arguments, etc.

[@ardbegthequestion]

yeah, it's funny he was so offended that they didn't "explain anything". Guys like this love to trap people in demanding philosophical arguments for not believing and yet all the believer has to do is pray a simple prayer, no justification for belief needed, we'll take whoever, however... Rhett and Linc are telling their story, not trying to win a debate.

[@mlwilson2956]

sCiENcE

[@kaylan2083]

Steven Crowder responded to Rhett's deconstruction video. Essentially these guys went to church, went through the motions, etc and then moved to LA and abandoned their faith. They never grasped the Gospel to begin with.

[@ardbegthequestion]

@@kaylan2083 - yeah, no true Scotsman. Just keep telling yourself that and you’ll never fall prey to doubt.

[@kaylan2083]

@@ardbegthequestion it wasn't doubt lol. In their deconstruction video they said they met gay people in LA and thought gay people were nice and they shouldn't hate gay people. 🧐 Nowhere in the bible does it say we should hate gay people. They were cultural Christians because of the environment they were raised in. As soon as they moved somewhere with people of different beliefs, their "faith" collapsed because they never questioned it or had to argue it. Christians need to learn apologetics and basic theology in church or they'll faith will fall apart too.

[@rivernm105]

Simple case of because the “world will hate you because it hated me first” fear of being a Christian. I’d rather follow the Creator than the created

[@Tinesthia]

No they were fine with being hated by the world, and actually welcomed it. Turn the other cheek type stuff.

[@nashwalker7]

Who is forever praised

[@saintburnsy2468]

We don't know that the universe was created, or that it even had a beginning. Scientifically speaking.

[@nashwalker7]

@@saintburnsy2468 yes, science can’t answer this question.

[@saintburnsy2468]

@@nashwalker7 Actually it can. There are testable theories on the origins of the universe. For all we know, the universe is eternal, had no beginning. (And no, the Big Bang theory does not state that the universe began then).

[@inthecreed]

While I don’t know how long Rhett held membership at the church in Angier, NC, I attended that same church while I was in college there. The pastor there was solid and did not bend to the culture or spirit of the age. I say that only to emphasize that the teaching he received in those years there didn’t set him on a slippery slope. He led himself astray.

[@gandalfthegrey2171]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

[@lifewasgiventous1614]

It’s usually our selves that do the deceit

[@JEBUSHCHRISTO]

Ha! Right.

[@ccchhhrrriiisss100]

It is strange, but I followed Rhett and Link since before they hit it "big." Yet, I saw a slow regression from "faith" to secularism to even dogmatic secularism. I thought that I was imagining it, but it really broke my heart to see. This is because I went from atheism to Christianity -- an opposite journey. I had more of a reluctant conversion -- honest as it was. I was intelligent and educated and this was the basis for my not believing in religion. However, my journey was, well, something of a journey from a lack of belief to one of profound belief. I am not ashamed to say that I believe in Jesus Christ. At the same time, because of my own journey, I understand why many people do not believe. I was one of them. However, I also know the questions that led me to question my own dogmatic agnosticism and, ultimately, led me to Jesus Christ.

[@holless]

Hi! Sorry, I know this is out of the blue, but I'm very interested in hearing more about your conversion if you'd like to share? I grew up atheist, and have just begun to genuinely consider Christianity over the past few weeks. Similarly to you, I'm educated and consider myself intelligent enough, and I can't help but feel barred from faith by my inherent preference for reason and evidence. No worries if you have nothing to share or no interest in sharing it; I've just struggled to find people in a similar boat and have really appreciated the few testimonies I've heard from atheist to Christian converts. :)

[@ccchhhrrriiisss100]

@@holless - Hey holless, I'm totally fine with sharing my own story. Of course, given the limits to KZbin, it's not a particularly ideal space given the comment character limit. I'll try to use as much brevity as possible. I may have to start and then continue more a bit later. Part 1 - Doubts and assumptions... I grew up in a good home that wasn't religious (at least until I was a child). My parents were both intelligent. They weren't anti-religious, but they weren't given to any sort of practice of faith either. On the other hand, I could never grasp the concept of faith. As I grew up, the concept of faith itself seemed as if it was some sort of ancient belief in a "Santa Claus in the sky" that was based upon more contrived fiction than fact. I didn't fault people who believed. I simply didn't believe. I even tried to empathize with those who did despite the fact that I saw their belief as some sort of intellectual "block" that I attributed more to "hope" than actual "belief." This only increased with academic fortitude. I was a very good high school student and an even better college student. As such, it caused me to doubt pretty much every aspect of religion in general (and the Christian religion in particular). Essentially, I just couldn't bring myself to accept things like a "young earth" (which I found quite laughable), denials about evolution or even whether biblical figures like Abraham, Moses or Jesus ever even existed at all. I was certainly driven by a need to see and review evidence. After all, observation and scrutiny are essential to scientific standard. Why wouldn't religion have a similar standard? At the same time, I can't simply describe myself as an "atheist" but more of an open-minded atheist. I would be happy to be proven wrong in ANYTHING that I believed in science, politics, history, etc. The same was true with religion. I just happened to be more confident that religion was born out of man-made cultural customs, sagas, myths and an intrinsic need for easy explanations in eras before scientific principles became commonly understood. My biggest doubts about religion (and Christianity in particular) was that it was always so Earth-centric in a massive universe. To quote Sagan, the universe is "an awfully big place." It didn't make sense to me that any sort of God would create a massive, expanding universe with his focus entirely upon the inhabitants of this "little blue dot" (another reference to Sagan). Moreover, I saw religion as an attempt by human beings as validating an established set of moral principles. What better validation for authority than "Thus sayeth the Lord?" Without codified morality derived from religion, humans would simply be a pinnacle of evolution that still held to primal urges with a few collectively codified "right" or "wrong" moral standards for society. Even if there was some supernatural being in the universe, I reasoned that I could never possibly discern which "faith" was correct or if any had any sort of monopoly on "truth." It was much easier to presume that religion was used as a means of control when it came to the establishment of moral principles pushed by some localized authority. (Part 2 coming soon)

[@holless]

@@ccchhhrrriiisss100 Every dilemma you mentioned there (particularly religion as a means of corralling society) is something I've debated with my family time and time again, despite not even having chosen a side. Thank you very much for electing to share; it sounds like you were in almost the exact place I am, and I am so intrigued by what came next for you. Please continue when/ifever you want, I won't interrupt further!

[@FloridaGoth]

Ha i know my comment ruins it but i wanted to point out your comment got 3 comments and 16 likes 😂. God's humor in action i believe

[@ccchhhrrriiisss100]

@@holless - Hi holless! I just checked back on this video. I'll finish writing my reasons soon. Thank you for your great patience!

[@PixlerPerspective]

I'm with you Doug, but unfortunately, this is a small snippet of his story. He did do a 2-hour podcast with specifics. I wish we could have Doug respond to the entire episode.

[@LawlessNate]

It takes a lot longer to respond to claims than it does to make it. Notice how it took Doug 9 minutes to respond to about 45 seconds of their claims. If he were to do this with the whole 2 hour podcast then that would be all Doug would do for the next who knows how long. His time is probably better spent doing other things.

[@dF_fallz]

@@LawlessNate That’s a cowardly way out of things. “I’m gonna do sound bite responses to a general testimony because the more in-depth explanation might get my viewers to think differently about things if they heard it.” That’s more or less this video in a nutshell. Also, if his time is “better spent” doing other things, then why is he even giving this video any time whatsoever?

[@Isaac19242]

@@dF_fallz you’re just assuming that’s his thinking in making this video tho. I mean the description does acknowledge that it’s a clip. Maybe he ended up watching the whole thing 🤷🏽‍♂️who knows

[@djd770]

Yeah I don't think Doug has interest in a 6 hour long response video 10 minutes will do.

[@dF_fallz]

@@djd770 Small minds. Anyway, has this guy ever even participated in an actual debate about this topic or related ones?

[@davidlegkodukh6969]

The more fame and money, the harder it is to maintain Christianity.

[@crisyorke1328]

You don't maintain Christianity - It's not something to be maintained - They might not be of faith in the first place.

[@kinggenius930]

Sad but not surprising to see this comments section full of accusations that he "was never a Christian to begin with". None of you are in a position to determine how genuine this man's faith was

[@JDubbs740]

It's easy to deconstruct and deny Jesus now in their health and prosperity... wait until something goes terribly wrong.

[@grantarmbruster6591]

My kids loved them in Buck Denver's "What's in the Bible?". So sad to see them sell out for popularity and money.

[@dF_fallz]

Or, you know, they thought things through and came to different conclusions. Because that’s just impossible and never happens, right?

[@thehashbrowns6505]

Hey, I get the frustration, I really do. when you're a big fan and then have to part ways it's rough. However, "popularity and money"? why not give them the benefit of the doubt, and assume they are just trying their best to make sense of the world like everyone else.

[@John-vj6ss]

@@dF_fallz I find it interesting, coming from the opposite direction, atheist to Christian, that those who are born into the Christian world take so much for granted. When they are truly exposed to the world, instead of working through their doubts, their questions, seeking out those who actually do have answers, they give up on the whole thing. They throw the baby Jesus out with the bath water. To understand the true depth that Christianity has to offer, and how that actually relates to the world would take LIFETIMES. Not that this is an appeal to mystery, it’s not. But it is to say that those who decidedly “fall away” likely have NOT thought through their beliefs very much. They read a few pop-sci books, watch a few KZbin videos and bam, suddenly atheist. It certainly helps that the entire world will applaud you for “giving up” your “sky daddy fantasies”. The secular world, with all of its temptations, are REALLY hard to deny. I don’t think they were ever truly challenged before. And when they finally were, they melted because their faith was thin. Everyone has doubts. We live in a very, very difficult world. Christianity is not for wimps. It sounds all cliché, “deny thyself”. And people think, “hey, I fasted for a day” or “I go to the gym 4 days a week” and they think they know willpower. To them I challenge: live one week, ONE WEEK, according to the Commandments as laid out by Christ. Love your neighbor. Truly, desire the best for your enemies. Pray for those who despise you. Deny your flesh, that wants, wants, wants in any myriad of ways, constantly. Stop swearing. Stop partaking of violence or sex in media (lol, that one ALONE will stop most people in their tracks “what do you MEAN give up Netflix? Nooooo!”). If alcohol is a vice, give it up. If food is a vice, control it. Give up premarital sex. Avoid thinking about sex with anyone who is not your spouse. Avoid getting angry at others instead of working for reconciliation. Think you can do it for a week? Not a chance. The good news is, no one can. This was the purpose of Levitical law. To show NO ONE can be sinless. Which is why Christ is necessary. But, people want what they want. And they want a free pass for all of it. What offers such a free pass other than secular materialism? No God, no meaning, no responsibility. Of course people embrace it. Especially when the other option is to take up your cross, follow Christ and DIE to yourself.

[@cparker4584]

@@dF_fallz Sure, it has nothing to do with the fact that they are entertainers beholden to media platforms fanatically hostile to Christians, in a milieu dominated by gays and other woke types. Just some good old-fashioned soul searching.

[@dF_fallz]

@@cparker4584 Okay, mind-reader. Prove that that is what their true motivation is. I’ll wait.

[@lukedornon7799]

Translation: he got tired of feeling 'uncool' with the new friends he made after getting youtube famous for believing Christianity so he left.

[@rdnugent1]

DING, DING, DING! You hit the nail on the head. Apostates always try to make their stories sound so deep and profound. But whenever you start to peel back the onion, so much of it is a matter of not wanting to look uncool to their atheistic and humanistic colleagues and contemporaries. Rhett speaks and reasons like a teenager. Sadly, when he is 60, he will continue to sound and reason like a teenager

[@LawlessNate]

This should be the pinned comment.

[@saintburnsy2468]

To be fair, believing fairy tales into adulthood _is_ pretty uncool.

[@rdnugent1]

@@saintburnsy2468 You mean like the Big Bang? Or mutating from algae? Those sorts of unlikely fairy tales?

[@LawlessNate]

@@saintburnsy2468 Almost universally, the average self-described atheists I meet are know-nothing morons that only believe in atheism because of peer pressure and ignorance. Did me insulting those who I disagree with prove their position to be incorrect? No? Then why do self-described atheists think that mindlessly insulting theists somehow proves atheism true? My earlier point is true; atheists almost universally have no legitimate, logical reasoning to back up their worldview. Most people I talk with, be they theist or self-described atheist, have no reasoning as to why they hold the views they do. That being said, the few who do have a solid foundation for their worldview are all theists. They will say they know the kalam cosmological argument, the modal ontological argument, various teleological arguments, the moral argument, etc, etc. I've yet to meet even a single self-described atheist that had any answer to "Why do you believe there isn't a God?". I've had cookie-cutter, snarky comments like you've made, but again insulting those who hold a position does nothing to discredit the position itself.

[@thehashbrowns6505]

So two things. first, Doug, you are the best. As an atheist, I really appreciate the civility with which you approach other people's perspectives. Second, right near the end you belittle the secular conception of love as a "chemical reaction". I get what you're saying, but you have to understand that from the atheist perspective chemical reactions are incredibly meaningful. "who cares?" -- we do, humans do. Just because we think God doesn't exist, doesn't mean we take an apathetic approach to life. I understand that God is the source of meaning for Christians. But I hope you understand that we disagree. It's not the same as a hamburger saying "I love you" cause hamburger isn't a complex living organism with consciousness, identity, memory, and experience.

[@DanielCdeCastro]

What you don't get is that your "love" is empty and null. A meat ball sympathizing with another meat ball means nothing - and humans are just more complex meatballs in your belief. All your experiences are meaningless, for there is no higher purpose. Coherence for an atheist is nihilism, at least Nietzsche knew it better.

[@sphoenixa]

As a Christian, I just wanted to stop and appreciate your response. The tone of your comment is really refreshing considering the hostility both camps (Atheist and Christian) can fall into when interacting with the other’s content. As for Doug’s comment, it was without much nuance, but as the other commenter mentioned, the idea in Doug’s mind is probably along the lines that, without an objective standard for love, what we define as love is ultimately subjective. Who defines what truly is loving? The only consistent worldview for the naturalist should be some variation of Nihilism. But, people are complex, conscious beings. And that complexity, as a Christian, is derived from the character of the God who made mankind in His own image. That’s the foundation Doug, and myself, start with. Again, really appreciate your comment. Hopefully the aforementioned is helpful. :)

[@DanielCdeCastro]

@@sphoenixa Myself, I consider your answer much better. Hopefully our friend above may consider our thoughts - things that no complexity in a meatball can ever provide.

[@bepisboy291]

@@DanielCdeCastro There still is no inherent meaning with a creator, that's a false problem Christians have created. God having his own view of what we are and what we should do does not asrcibe objective meaning. I think love is meaningful because it matters to humans and I am one that wants to live in harmony with others. You think love is meaningful because it matters to some other being that can put you in heaven so you can live in harmony with it and others. What logical difference is there?

[@DanielCdeCastro]

@@bepisboy291 No. Love is meaningful while it has a steady, firm, non-chronological foundation for it. What you call love is just convenience. "I think love is meaningful because it matters to humans" well, what if it at some point in time doesn't matter anymore? What if society's conception of love changes? As I have said, it's just convenience.

[@randomname2366]

As someone who has watched Rhett and Link for years I noticed the slide in their videos to more and more of a secular and less family friendly bent. Also, to be fair to Rhett the video you are watching is the follow up podcast a year after they gave their own multi hour long stories on their losing their faith. Rhett gives multiple examples of things that hit him hard such as reading a Christian evolutionist. That book made a strong case for evolution and because he was taught evolution was a lie he skipped right over the Christian part and started distrusting his faith and community. Of note the objections he thought were so powerful, like junk dna, are things we now know are not junk and indicative of design. He did not so much leave his faith as he did the Christian culture and it’s tenants that he grew up in.

[@jwright8838]

The idea of "junk" DNA made him think that Jesus wasn't Savior and the Bible was not true? Not only does junk DNA not exist, but if it did, the information contained in the rest of DNA is overwhelming evidence of a mind and design. You can use any excuse if you don't want to bow the knee to the Lord.

[@archerofthereformation5966]

@@jwright8838 exactly. This is why apologetics cannot truly convert the sinner. They must be born again. So let’s keep sharing the gospel! “for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:10, 14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬ “How lovely on the mountains Are the feet of him who brings good news, Who announces peace And brings good news of happiness, Who announces salvation, And says to Zion, “Your God reigns!”” ‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭52:7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

[@justaguy328]

@@archerofthereformation5966 Apologetics can play a very big role. As a lifelong atheist, William Lane Craig's debate with Sam Harris was the first time I ever took Christianity seriously. I thought Christianity was nonsense, and his apologetics work showed me how robust Christianity really is. Apologetics can't get you to give your heart to God, but it goes a long way to show you that God exists

[@gavin_hill]

@@justaguy328 No friend, you knew God existed before that time. Or else you are calling God a liar. Apologetics is a reasoned defense, not a reasoned proposition. I am glad that you are a brother in the Lord, praise God for your testimony! God can use any means he chooses to bring a man to faith.

[@archerofthereformation5966]

@@gavin_hill Amen.

[@gsmiro]

He said that he "re-derive" his faith or "rebuild" his foundation through the years. I think it indicated that his faith was not truly built on the real foundation, Christ Himself. Once a person was truly saved and regenerated, his faith is built on nothing else but the Person of Jesus Christ. There has to be a supernatural regeneration in that person. There has to be a fact to face with God, a life changing experience that resulted in a new birth. If his faith has to be "re-derived" or he has to continue to rebuild his foundation, then one might question was he truly born again? Every truly born again regenerated believer can tell you when they met God face to face. When they come to Christ, come to the Cross and was saved. For example, look up Charles Wesley's conversion; Hudson Taylor's conversion; John Sung's conversion; Charles Finney's conversion and thousands of others. So I think this is another case of someone growing up in the Christian culture, but did not truly come to that "face to face" place (Peniel) with God and now just turning away from it all for whatever his reasons are.

[@Tinesthia]

The classic “was never a true Christian” is a really embarrassing and uncharitable doozy. It would be pretty dumb for a homeowner not to inspect the foundation a few times. Especially any time the foundation shows cracks. Rhett and Link were both fully committed to Jesus Christ alone and they showed it. Many people who knew them would confirm it. But you weren’t there, and you only embarrass yourself when you provide purely speculative assumption. They specifically avoid many details for good reasons, and these small excerpts are not Rhett’s full testimony.

[@douglasmcnay644]

@@Tinesthia The parable of the soils is a parable that Jesus taught for a reason.

[@taylor6618]

@@douglasmcnay644 yep, choked by the thorns.

[@Tinesthia]

@@douglasmcnay644 And there is a reason that in philosophy it’s called fallacious reasoning. “No True Scotsman” Try applying the same reasoning to other areas of life. You did X? Well you were never truly a republicans then. You eat meat now? Well then you were never truly a vegetarian. It is really embarrassing to claim such things. It comes off as pure arrogance that you think you know they were not genuine when all that knew them could see they were.

[@benstillman5080]

i think the "never a true Christian" idea brings up an even more important question. if you believe in a God who wants a relationship with his creation, why would he allow people to mistakenly have that relationship with him? how would his creation ever be able to tell the difference between a real relationship and a misplaced one? what more could they possibly do than earnestly seek him out? as far as I can tell, if you believe God wants a relationship AND believe people have tried, but failed, to cultivate that relationship, this is not the fault of the people...

[@PeterTheRock-II]

"If there is no God then all love is is simply the epiphenomena on a chemical reaction." "I love you said one bit of ground hamburger to another bit of ground hamburger in the butcher shop."

[@eltonron1558]

I say, one pointless, meaningless carbon based lifeform, to another pointless, no purpose lifeform.

[@emilyrl.]

This made me so so so sad to see when they released it. I got a sense that they've both been led astray but also that Rhett is the main person who led both himself and Link away from faith. Neither of them is without hope and I pray that they get saved.

[@_lithp]

They explain they were confronted by homosexuality when they moved to LA and couldn't reconcile their Christian beliefs with all their new gay friends. Everything else is filler.

[@John-vj6ss]

@@_lithp Well, the second he started talking about hell and how he “didn’t want to believe that” I knew where it was going. Too often we think that intolerance is equal to hate. Tolerance is not a Christian virtue. Patience and perseverance are, but not tolerance. Tolerance is merely enabling a person straight into damnation with a nice sugary coating to make the poison go down. Hell isn’t supposed to be pleasant. It hurts my heart to think that some that I love may very well end up there. But it doesn’t matter what I want. I mean, if we had to form our values based on what we want or like, it would change every season with the new fashions. Much like, well, any other secular nation that thinks morality is subjective to one’s whims.

[@mytreasuredcreations]

@@John-vj6ss That's right! It's sad to think of someone we love going there, wanting to go there, thinking it will be fun and having no fear of God whatsoever. But hell will be a place for those that want nothing to do with Him. So while they are out of their minds, and have no clue what they are saying, we, believers, pray to the God who saves and redeems, circumcises hearts and transforms Sauls into Pauls. To God be the glory.

[@jamersbazuka8055]

@@_lithp The impression I got was that Rhett was led astray by "the science," while Link was by the more emotional argument of "how can this gay relationship/these gay relationships be bad?"

[@matthewsheppard7050]

I cannot help but be reminded of Christ's own words. "...but the worries of this life, the deceitfulness of wealth and the desires for other things come in and choke the word, making it unfruitful." Mark 4:19. Rhett and Link both became incredibly wealthy, entered into a world of celebrity and fame, and then had their "Deconstruction." It is almost scripted.

[@heatherp9339]

They go over it elsewhere, specific things that they believe refute the Bible. Go back to that please and address that, because this video doesn't help in regards to Rhett and Link.

[@justinsturz5854]

Atheist Victor Stenger: "We are all frozen nothing." No objective hope, meaning, or purpose, nothing but "blind, pitiless indifference" (atheist Richard Dawkins) and your life must be lived on a "foundation of unyielding despair" (atheist Bertrand Russell). "Atheism is a long, hard, cruel business." (atheist Jean-Paul Sartre) Atheist Michael Shermer: "Be skeptical". Totally agree that I should be very skeptical of a worldview that proclaims that I, my wife, my parents, my children and every one else I love, indeed every person who lives now or has ever lived, are objectively worthless cosmic accidents, meat machines with no soul and of no more value than bacteria.

[@LawlessNate]

As Doug himself said, truth has nothing to do with whether or not you want to believe it. There's an argument to be made that no one actually lives as if these logical outworkings of atheism are true, and therefore because no one is actually living as if it were true it's somehow irrational to suggest anyone actually believes it to be true. However, if I were trying to convince someone that atheism is false or that theism is true, I wouldn't use that line of reasoning you provided.

[@justin10292000]

@@LawlessNate I agree. The only reason to believe something is because it is actually true. I am merely pointing out that atheism goes against all the deepest longings of the human heart and everything within us that cries out that we DO have objective hope, worth, value, meaning and purpose. And my belief in the Truth of Jesus Christ and in Christianity is based on years of cumulative study, analysis, AND life experiences of all kinds, not on wishful thinking.

[@LawlessNate]

@@justin10292000 I agree. Too many people are quick to dismiss the fact that personal experience, although not a useful tool to convince others, can be a perfectly valid tool to convince yourself of something. Although, personal experiences like emotions can also be used to convince someone of something that isn't true, that's obviously not what we are referring to. One's own personal experience with morality seeming to be objective truth can only be valid via God's existence. Appealing to this sense of morality is a perfectly logical argument for God's existence; it's just that the validity of at least one of these types of argument's premises would be based on the subjective experience of the person considering the argument. I do a lot of debating with non-theists, so to me things which can be used as an argument to show to those who disagree with me is what has the most value. I'm not trying to discredit personal experience that isn't or cannot be used to convince others as being valid for convincing yourself.

[@skyvipers]

He said "...makes me safely outside the Christian camp....", no Sir, you are not safe at all.

[@Tinesthia]

We’re just as safe as you. There are just as many potential God’s with eternal torments that you don’t believe in as us.

[@annaclaytowaterson8283]

@@Tinesthia When you say "just as" are you making a quantitative assertion?

[@callawaycass5148]

What’s a shame is that these guys were, I understand, responsible for training college students in Evangelism… yet they did not even know and were not partakers of the gospel themselves! I personally know some solid, godly men who work for Cru, but the organization as a whole has some serious questions it should be asking itself over these guys.

[@OhioCoastie94]

The fact that it dropped "Christ" from its name is a giant flashing red warning light.

[@jamersbazuka8055]

Rhett explains the gospel pretty well iirc (back in their Jan/Feb 2019 podcast on their "deconstruction"), but doesn't believe it any more. There's a chance it could be a "do as they said, not as they do" situation. But yeah, there are other signs Cru seems to be waffling, and it's worth investigating.

[@lizzyw7861]

Yes, there is something going on with Cru. I cannot put my finger on it but me and some of my friends started to feel uneasy. We left. I appreciate their love for God and all their hard work. Also, I have met some of my best friends there. All of them are Godly woman. However, I feel that there is some preoccupation with worldly things. We started to read less and less scripture; even when we do, it is mostly dedicated to how we are thinking and how we are feeling rather than an actual study of what the Word is saying. There is also A LOT of dating, girls wearing attention-drawing clothes, boys chasing girls… and gatherings. Gatherings can be nice, we all need to develop relationships and having fun is good but I felt like yelling “STOP” at one point and asking: “OK, when are we reading the Bible?” But there is a good chance that things are different depending on the college. It is a big organization after all. I think Cru needs to ask serious questions but not necessarily because of these guys. They employ lots of people and anyone may be unable to tell who is a genuine believer or not. Some people seem genuinely faithul but we can never be sure, only God knows. It isn’t a very serious club. It is more light-hearted. In summary, it doesn’t feel like Church, it feels like a college club. Sorry for my broken English and long message. I hope this is a bit explanatory.

[@jamersbazuka8055]

@@lizzyw7861 long replies are fine! And I've definitely been in a similar situation (sensing something is off, but not being able to articulate exactly what seemed out of place). Praying that the truth comes to light and that God protects and prepares His people, however that looks.

[@saintburnsy2468]

Theological question: Does God command things because they are good? Or are things good because God commands them?

[@empese1127]

Doug Wilson is like the Ron Swanson of Christianity.

[@bjn3232]

What is the purpose of this? Is this supposed to be informative? beneficial? Convincing? What is the point of taking a small section of film and trying to comment on it without taking the time to listen to the context? I’m not saying I agree with Rhett and Link or their reasonings. I’m saying as a Christian I don’t see what good taking non-believers out of context does.

[@gueroloco8687]

When you truly surrender to Him, you can find true peace and joy as I found. Although it took my Dad's death to teach me that!! Great video Doug!!

[@einarabelc5]

You're not so loco then.

[@gueroloco8687]

LOL!! I love Jesus for sure!!

[@MansterBear]

One thing I’ve learned through watching on the street evangelism is people really think that their beliefs determine reality. When someone present the gospel, many will say “well not for me because I don’t believe that”. Especially when it comes to hell. It’s like whether he’ll exists or not doesn’t depend on if you believe it. I thought it was pretty basic stuff to know that reality isn’t bent depending on your beliefs, but apparently many think that way.

[@taylor6618]

Pride does that... I was the same way until God tested me and I came tumbling down into despair, only to be reborn into a true saving relationship with Jesus Christ.

[@saintburnsy2468]

Precisely! And this can also be applied to Christianity- too many people substitute their Christian beliefs for reality, when in fact reality can be known through observation, through reason. Through science. Yet even here in the comments to this video, I see people denying the reality of the Big Bang, of evolution, of archeology, and even gravity. Yes even gravity.

[@TheFirstAtom]

It is the same way for faithheads. Just because you are taught the Bible is true and everything therein, does not mean it is actually true.

[@TheFirstAtom]

@@richmann2429 we might have free will to do with what we already believe, but no one has free will to *CHOOSE* what convinces ourselves. That’s on a god. Surely an all knowing, all powerful god would know *exactly* what it would take to convince someone of his existence. At one point in my life, I believed 100%. Then I started studying in my devotional time and I could not excuse the contradictions that were in.

[@saintburnsy2468]

@@richmann2429 I agree that it's possible such a thing as an infinite, eternal, unseen "something" exists (basically, "God"). But to the extent that it's not provable in our reality- that there is no evidence of it interacting with us in a verifiable way- it's quite literally a meaningless concept. In the same way that any unfalsifiable scientific claim is meaningless.

[@JB-em9po]

Doug - normally I love these things and you’re very on point, but you sounded ignorant of the rest of Rhett’s talk. He went into great details of some specific things scientifically and otherwise that caused him to doubt his faith. Maybe you didn’t get far enough in his talk. I disagree with Rhett regardless and even had another KZbin account banned for a time for trying to provide helpful counter-examples in the comments section, but I just wanted to let you know in case you want to do a follow-up video on the specific things he mentioned later on.

[@sagnorain3160]

"when all this stuff questions Christianity, I think they're right" Sir, I got some bad news for you about archeology alone. 😂 I never even heard of Rhett and Link until after they'd already drifted. My sympathy for those that were fans of theirs that got hurt by their shift.

[@levigarrett5614]

The funny thing about archeology is the presuppositions it makes and they try to make things they find fit. Sometimes they find something very strange and can't explain it away so they hide it. I can't remember what it's called but it's funny. None of these "great minds" in any of the worlds fields of study know anything. They really are fools. Like, I mean, idiots

[@scottwall8419]

Your quote isnt quite right. He said I thought they were 'probably' right. Which is way worse. He abandoned his faith for a probably. He was just looking for an excuse and grabbed a popular one to be popular. Its probably the worst reason to stop pursuing something....probably

[@saintburnsy2468]

What's wrong with archeology? If you believe that current archeological knowledge is incorrect, you should present the evidence that it is, publish a scholarly article (anyone can submit one to a journal), because you would become very famous indeed if you were able to overturn current scientific thought in the field.

[@levigarrett5614]

@@saintburnsy2468 durrrrrrrrrhhhrrr

[@BirdieSenpai]

I have never heard more of an oxymoron than, "I am safely outside of the Christian camp." I don't think anything could possibly be more UNsafe.

[@treperry9393]

Nice to see a Christian homest about fear being the reason they stick with the religion.

[@kensmith1813]

Sad situation. Had lunch with these guys while in college. They have a lot of talent and need our prayers.

[@formerfundienowfree4235]

Get over yourself.

[@monica.s1345]

Mind your business man

[@MightyBison4]

@Megal Stone right, they "freed themselves" from living a fruitful life. What a great thing that is.

[@maestrogringo]

@@MightyBison4 LOL, you don't need religion to have a fruitful life. To each their own!

[@wynniwagner2003]

What's so terrifying is that the book of Hebrews tells us it is impossible for such to be saved again.. or reenlightened

[@wynniwagner2003]

I mean, they were never saved but it is much harder to impossible for them to be saved now. Terrifying...

[@babybatedits]

Thank you for sharing these kinds of video analyses, Canon Press. It's a great learning tool. Thumbs up!

[@ifronnin]

I hope Rhett and Link see this video. Philosophy seems to speak to Rhett, and Douglas Wilson is a philosopher. Therefore I think Rhett would react constructively to Douglas Wilson's criticisms.

[@RyanHall3295]

Rhett will just jump to "Moscow man bad" and DW derangement syndrome

[@gch8810]

@@RyanHall3295 Unfortunately that is probably true. A lot of people don't even give Wilson a chance.

[@matthewsheppard7050]

I don't think Rhett actually listens to Philosophy. He hasn't said anything that is particularly interesting.

[@--i-am-root]

@@matthewsheppard7050 I wonder if we confuse philosophy with emotional sophistry. I know I was very taken by the latter in my 20's.

[@EnglishMike]

What philosophy? First he takes a 5 minute clip from hours of Link and Rhett going into great detail about why the left Christianity and complains they don't explain anything, and then compares the human mind to ground beef. Deep insights they are not.

[@CSUnger]

I can’t help but sympathize with him in one respect, not knowing anything more about him than this one clip. In it, he doesn’t seem overtly hostile like a Richard Dawkins kind of atheist, but is simply giving his own subjective reasons for why he no longer believes, not that this is conclusive of anything, but my experience with guys like these is that they never seemed to have gotten over the point where their belief was anything more than an intellectual response and they never reached the point where they might have said, like Job, “I had heard a word of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees Thee.” I would have more respect for his testimony, however, if perhaps he might have questioned, not his faith, but the evangelical milieu in which he was immersed. Maybe there’s something incorrect in the way we are practicing, applying, and understanding our Faith.

[@moriartythethird5709]

That's a very good point. All to many times do you see someone lose the faith and then the pendulum swings far to the other side giving them an absolute hatred towards it.

[@ds29912]

There is indeed something very wrong in the western evangelical church. Most of it is the adoption of relevance theology.

[@andrewhodgeson8006]

This sounds like a case of "church hurt" and instead of being upset at whatever person(s) or church that hurt or upset him, he just walked away from the whole thing. Good news is that, if God wants him, there's nothing he can do about it. God will always have His way eventually. 🙏

[@theologytherapist]

It's important to remember that there's so much "content" that there could be mentioned, but this is a personal story about what steps he took on his journey to get to where he is today. Also, good for him to recognize his own agency to choose what he thinks is right and to pursue that. It's incredibly brave to start new after dedicating yourself to something for so long. And we can only learn so much about Rhett's experience from a 10 minute reaction video anyways. The whole 1hour+ videos are great to listen to.

[@LauraDickenson]

Does “recognize his own agency” mean he is his own god.

[@therealabean]

What’s the foundation for his morality? He believes that we’re all stardust morphed into some mass of cells run by chemical reactions interacting with similar clumps of molecules. With such a worldview, how can he judge what is right and wrong? Without a perfectly moral God that designed humans in His image and revealed His truth to us, there is no objective morality. In such a world, morality enters the realm of opinion. Why is it good that he took these steps? By what standard is that right? He borrows the Christian pursuit of truth without the foundation that justifies it.

[@sid5ofus]

oh my gosh. i need more of this. react to the whole ear biscuit episode, please!

[@danvan2683]

I left Mormonism a few years ago and have been consuming data ever since around weather there's solid reasons to continue considering myself religious, I'm troubled by the amount of over confident christians and overstated evidence, I landed at the foot of the cross with a tear in my eye in awe at the complexity and scope of gods planning but with much more questions, I don't get the impression this is typical or get the idea I'm done learning any time soon, I am impressed with the freedom I feel in asking ANY question and considering all perspectives, truth being a goal rather than ideology, thanks for anyone ministering to Mormons, I do drink coffee now (right now) so I hope this is coherent.

[@djd770]

Apologia with Jeff Durbin, and James White has good Mormon outreach stuff on their youtube channel.

[@danvan2683]

@@djd770 thanks, white is probably the greatest gift to Mormons, his insights if someone is willing to think are solid.

[@user-vy2hz6fl6x]

This is so cool! Glad for you❤️

[@saintburnsy2468]

Why not take that one extra step and leave Christianity? Its accounts of Jesus' life are fabricated like those of Joseph Smith's. Example: Jesus praying in Gethsemane in Matthew 26, Mark 14, and Luke 22. How did anyone who would've been a witness know that Jesus was praying, if they were all asleep? Or what Jesus even said in prayer? You can see that this was a fabrication by early Christians, as stories of Jesus' life were passed down orally for decades before being put into writing. If they were willing to _lie_ to you about this part of Jesus life- then what else did they lie about?

[@thebottomline9250]

I have a few question for evangelic Christians who seem to push this idea that life has no meaning without God 1) If life has no meaning without God, would you commit suicide? 2) If life has no meaning without God, would you stop loving your family? 3) If life has no meaning without God, would you abandon all the things in life that you enjoyed? 4) If life has no meaning without God, would you suddenly turn to a life of crime? It just seems that at this point, Christians like Doug Wilson go after former Christians simply for thinking for themselves & asking questions. Doug Wilson sounds like that husband who shouts, "You're nothing without me..." when his wife finally decides to leave at the end of the movie. A scene that lets you know who needs who. It's also obvious that you took parts of their video, not the whole. You can't make them look foolish while avoiding the specifics of their argument.

[@monica.s1345]

Ikr reading all the comments that are dehumanizing Rhett and Link when they didn't even watch the video or try to empathize is so frustrating

[@juhall]

I used to watch Rhett and Link years ago for mindless entertainment. I stopped when more and more of their show seemed to be going woke. As an academic (I’m a college history professor), I can assure Rhett that he’s made a huge mistake if he trusts the shifting knowledge of academia over the solid rock of inerrant Scripture. The lesson here seems pretty plain. If you move to Sodom (or SoCal as they did), you’ll become more and more like that over time, till you wake up one day not knowing which way is up.

[@TGuard00014]

I am honestly frustrated that archeology gets respected as a science when it’s more like astrology than biology. I once saw a documentary where archeologists unearthed the body of a woman with three babies. For years archeologists claimed this was proof of a mass grave that was the result of an attack on the village that they had never found proof of. There were some other darker and more creative explanations thrown around as well. Now I’m not an archeologist but I know a lot about the birthing process and it was immediately obvious to me that one of the babies was literally stuck in the birth canal and a second was where the uterus would have been. Archeologists spent years peddling their fantasy as fact until finally DNA told the real (and frankly obvious story) that the woman died in childbirth with a rare case of triplets. I noticed the same pattern in the vast majority of archeology documentaries and articles I watched and read, they would take a relatively simple fact like “we found a copper pot in this location this deep” and turn it into essentially a fairy tale.

[@TGuard00014]

@@avonbruchhaeuser 1.) What does this comment even mean? 2.) Don’t you think it’s a little ironic telling people they need to go to school when you cannot be bothered to use punctuation or words? That sentence would get failed in a second grade writing class. 3.) Both the original poster and myself have advanced degrees (doctoral in my case and probably in there original poster’s case as well). So if anything our problem is too much school rather than needing more. That said if you’re willing to fund it, I’m happy to go back for a few additional degrees.

[@asdfasdf3989]

@@horus768 Are you being unironic?

[@andym8557]

@@horus768 I hope you've either succumb to boredom, or you're purposefully trolling. Either than that, nobody knows what you're talking about and neither do you.

[@hondotheology]

lol he said "safely outside of the Christian camp" _you are not safe_ dude

[@eileen1820]

My show is about eating the hottest jalapeno peppers EVERRRRR but accept me intelligencia bc I'm an atheist now 🙄.

[@whobeyou5342]

Perfect!

[@user-ks5cg5cd7m]

Exactly.

[@noahmcdaniel4920]

“The truth is the truth” YOU LITERALLY JUST READ IT IN A BOOK

[@rdestree]

I am an M.D. Christ made our bodies impossibly complex. No denial of this makes it any less true. Secular humanism can never explain Christ’s creation or His cross. Blindness is complete without His Spirit.

[@restorehumility3538]

Sounds like the “if I can’t fully understand God & all of His ways, I won’t serve Him” I have heard this fella is married & has children... I wonder how that works with the same line of reasoning. They are prodigal and will return to the Father, or they were never truly saved. I pray it’s the former, it would be amazing to see what they could do with their platform if their hearts returned to Christ

[@stewtheman]

I always bristle when I hear thoughts about how much good people could do with their platforms if they were only saved. Rhett's salvation depends 100% on the merciful regeneration of God, just like everybody else. As such, the use of his platform does not change God's sovereign election of others one bit. I say this to say that we should pray for Rhett's salvation for the sake of Rhett, not for the appeal of his platform. Only God can bring about rebirth.

[@tonybasoni8443]

RH,.....There are no saved people in the church. Only atheists that have been deceived into thinking they are Christians.

[@gch8810]

@@tonybasoni8443 You just keep telling yourself that.

[@tonybasoni8443]

@@gch8810 ,.....I am not telling myself anything, it is the Bible telling both you and me this.

[@t-rayhuckabay6700]

@@tonybasoni8443 Verse reference?

[@smallwei76]

One thing I constantly challenge my kiddos is, what makes you think what atheist scientists say is correct and true? Just because they have a PhD in front of their names?

[@ardbegthequestion]

because there's evidence and predictive power from the scientific method/skepticism. spirituality at best gives you a 50/50 shot on anything. also "science" admits when it's wrong and updates its beliefs, whereas dogmatic doctrine ties one to do a shite load of mental gymnastics to have any kind of explanatory power.

[@smallwei76]

@@ardbegthequestion unfortunately atheist scientists are usually not following the scientific method in many areas and rarely admit their mistakes when it is proven wrong because they simply cannot accept the overwhelming evidence to support the reliability of the Bible. This is the default human nature and behavior which is no surprise to followers of Christ who read the scriptures. Sorry, but still not sure why a PhD title would make anyone more believable, but nice try though. 😁

[@ardbegthequestion]

@@smallwei76 what kind of "atheist scientists" do you mean? Just the KZbin ones? If you can't image why someone with an PhD doesn't at least demand some credibility, I think maybe your the one who just might be unwilling to be wrong. When one is presented with actual data that one can do on their own, no less, this should be a lot more convincing than "for the Bible tells me so".

[@chloecigarroa9847]

​@@smallwei76 I was mentored by many atheist professors with hard science degrees in my youth and was constantly astonished at how illogical they were when faced with anything that challenged their ideas. Simple stuff that really blew my expectations of the people I idolized. Sure, when it came to her specialized field, they were incredibly well-versed, but over and over again I was flabbergasted at the actions of the smartest people I knew. "Oh, the original researcher is speaking out against how the data is being manipulated to justify this bizarre training? Ignore that and do what the almighty ideology says to do anyway!" After taking classes in biology/evolution, I was always so frustrated at the lack of evidence for the human/social theories being taught. I wanted to educate others of what I learned. I believed in it all, but couldn't find anything to make it make logical sense until eventually challenging myself with reading a bible. At 27 years old, God's word grabbed my corpse and miraculously dragged me to life. I'm absolutely astonished at how much Christianity was washed out of the sciences. All I wanted was the truth and it's shocking how much is regularly hidden by "scientists" in order to avoid anything to do with God. I went through the school system over a decade ago, yet was fully indoctrinated to believe in Marxism/atheism. It was the relentless anger toward God (who supposedly didn't exist) that caught my attention. If God was removed, why was there still a need to fixate? Ignore Christianity and it will just go away, right? Now I know why it needs constant work & attention of the blinded to cover up. There are honest atheist scientists who acknowledge the data and where it leads, but they are ridiculed by the anti-God scientists who seek to suffocate any biblical truth. You can deny God, but you can't scrub out His image. I've been fully dejected from the program of my youth, but I still love & pray for every one of my former mentors who detest me and consider me a stain ever since coming out as a Christian who tolerates those who disagree with me. Jesus wasn't what I expected to see when I sought the truth, but I'm sure glad now. Praise the God who removed the scales from my eyes after decades of darkness.

[@smallwei76]

@@chloecigarroa9847 Thanks for your powerful sharing. 80%+ of kiddos grew up in church never understand or think deeper about the Gospel. As the result, don't know how to respond when they're challenged by professional atheist "PhDs" while in college. It's parents and church's responsibilities to expose tactics of these professional atheists, and train + equip kiddos with Godly wisdom to discern the lies.

[@justinthrift9603]

1.) If you printed out the text of this soft-peddled diatribe and, at the 6:05 mark, put a double underscore under the word "Philosophically," you'd already have your explanation for most of this. 2.) The felt need for emphasis on "White, Southern" is cringe-worthy in itself. Notice how his tone and inflection changes a little immediately after this... to have a more ethnic flair. He's been taking notes from the Hillary Clinton playbook it seems. I'm embarrassed for him.

[@Ephesians-yn8ux]

Awesome. Always felt bad for these guys going to California and allowing liberals to deconstruct their faith.

[@mikezeke7041]

Maybe they “deconstructed” their own “faith” and were just seeking out affirmation? Listening to their stories it seemed they were more attached to being hip and cool than serving God

[@philipbolin6776]

Yes and no. They made their decision. I doubt blame others for my sins

[@judahmarx9742]

You can't deconstruct something that was never constructed in the first place.

[@tonybasoni8443]

@@judahmarx9742 ,....Correct. There are no Christians in the church. The church is 100% made up of atheists. Atheists that have been tricked into thinking they are Christians by master deceivers.

[@JonJaeden]

I moved to California from the South when I got married in 1972. "Deconstruction of faith" is a good descriptor of what we went through for close to a decade. Embraced a lot of leftist crap that I've spent nearly 40 years actively opposing. God did not leave us in our delusions. Pol Pot and the post-Vietnam genocide smacked the useful-idiot leftism out of me, and Friedrich Hayek and Rousas Rushdoony pointed the way out. Still in California ... would love to leave, but can't yet for probably five years due to an unalterable family responsibility ... and a good church.

[@merecatholicity]

As always, excellent commentary. It really does always come back to the most basic question: by what standard?

[@DBlanco48]

Isnt that so true?! "By what standard" such a good meat and potatoes reasoning.

[@saintburnsy2468]

I think reality is a good standard. Reality, which can be known through observation and reason. Instead of the writings of ancient desert dwellers who didn't even know that germs can make you sick, or that the Earth orbits the sun. The Bible is a very human book. A book with no particularly amazing insights into reality- like something you would expect from a Supreme Being- but very much with the insights you would expect of such ancient desert dwellers. It would've been impressive if there was a bit about quantum mechanics in the Bible. In those days such knowledge would've been very difficult to explain.

[@merecatholicity]

@@saintburnsy2468 Those are nice opinions, but without a standard outside of yourself by which to bind me to, it remains just that; an opinion.

[@maurice5402]

@@saintburnsy2468 Hey reddit :)

[@saintburnsy2468]

@@merecatholicity Reality is very much outside of me. Do you not use reality as a standard in everything, besides religious matters? If I told you it was raining, wouldn't you look outside? Verify that reality conforms to my claim about it?

[@studiobencivengamarcusbenc5272]

Atheists stumble and stutter cuz confusion is their mother 🤠😂

[@mrcmusic1]

This is the reason I tell unbelievers weather you believe or not does not change the fact that God owns everything. And Jesus is King..

[@davidordaz5251]

True

[@troyalexander1879]

Wish Doug could have responded to Rhett’s criticism of the church instead of just Rhett’s part saying “I’m not a Christian anymore” and Doug saying “that’s bad.” Like duh we already knew that. This could have been a great opportunity for people who follow Rhett and Link to see logical criticisms of their worldview.

[@zr7699]

If he counted the number of times the Bible has proven to be correct and archeology and science wrong, he would not be saying these things!

[@taylor6618]

Yes. He may be surprised how many scientists are Christians as well.

[@mbgrafix]

*4:15* - RHETT: _"That's not something that I even _*_want_*_ to believe."_ Gee Rhett, I don't _"want"_ to believe that a great many people died in the recent midwestern tornadoes. So, does that mean that _they did _*_not_*_ die_ if *I* _choose_ to grant _my own desire_ and deny the truth of the tornados? Am I therefore able to overpower reality by simply believing only what I *_want_*_ to believe?_ What kind of foolish ideology is this? Is this not akin to the foolish and immature thoughts of *_a toddler!?_* This reminds me of the foolish people who call themselves Christian, yet deny the existence of hell because they speculate that God loves everyone, and so He could never send anyone to a place of suffering such as hell. They think to themselves...after all, I love my children, and no matter what they had done, I could never punish them so severely. And God's love is so much greater than my own...therefore it stands to reason that He could not possibly allow such suffering! To which I respond... OH! You mean the same God that permits _torture, rapes, murders, thefts, auto accidents, building collapses, earthquakes, floods, tornados, cancer, heart disease, flu, Covid 19...etc...etc.??_ You mean _THAT_ God? *Clearly!* The God of your imagination is *_NOT_* the same as the God of reality. Hell exists, and the only proof that you need is, *A)* Because the Bible says so repeatedly...and Jesus Himself said so, _repeatedly._ *B)* Logically...if you call yourself Christian, yet do not believe in the existence of hell, what then did Jesus die for? *C)* Nature says so as well...as God gives us a sneak preview of hell via all of the suffering on Earth. ============================= _"We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and _*_take every thought captive to obey Christ..."_* *2 Corinthians 10:5*

[@eltonron1558]

Small problem. According to Jesus, even non Christians, are eligible for salvation. To deny the power of God to forgive, is blasphemy to his spirit. Mt. 12:31,32 Mk. 3:28 Lk. 12:10 1 Tim. 2:4 You have a terrible understanding of hell, especially in relation to the lake of fire, the word translated from Greek, and the wage of sin. Confusion is in thee. When your beliefs, align with the word of Christ, and no other, truth will be known.

[@JYD2756]

" I gave myself permission" has he ever read any of the bible? I'd say not.

[@Foxygrandpa2131]

Doug, I say this as a fellow believer, but you’re strawmanning Rhett and Link by cutting short an hour long deconstruction video. They had content and I’d appreciate if you would respond to their points.

[@amelajay]

It's truly sad that they would fall away... they are otherwise funny, talented, and personable guys. So sad that they are forfeiting their souls.

[@tjtessa8158]

They are not. Christ saved them for all eternity!

[@amadeusasimov1364]

I do not say this to be flippant or uncaring toward Rhett and Link. And I do hope that they will return to the Lord, or what may have never happened in the first place - that they will truly meet Him as it seems that they never really did know Him or were known by Him; They seem to have only reached an immature and naïve understanding of the LORD God. They both seem to have adopted the "Christianism" culture around them and never entered the barren wastelands outside of the camp where the Lord will meet them. The wasteland that is outside of secular culture, and outside of "christian" culture. The wasteland where it is only you and Christ, and you are dying of thirst and realization of your need for Him. I do not think that the two of them have truly ever reached that point of knowing that "to live is Christ and to die is gain", and a love that does not shy away from famine or fire or sword for the sake of Christ. A love that is willing to say "slay me, but you will never take away the love of the Lord from me." They would do well to study this, but they seem to have naïvely and immaturely thrown off scripture: "Therefore let us leave the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, and of instruction about washings , and the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits. For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. For land that has drunk the rain that often falls on it, and produces a crop useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed, and its end is to be burned."

[@hamaguitar]

I am so happy people realize religions are BS! Love those 2 guys.

[@ReformedSooner24]

I’m sorry you’ve bought into such destructive lies friend. The source of these lies wants you to believe you’re so enlightened and better for believing them. The source wants you puffed up and prideful on them. But the truth is humbling. It’s sad that you’re in the position you are in and while there IS hope, I have my doubts that you’ll take it. Or that you’d even hear it out. Many have been like you. Many have also been like you and then God transformed them. Humbled those who despised Him and graciously, even against all evidences around them suggested he didn’t exist, gave them eyes to see and ears to hear the truth and they came to Christ saying “have mercy on me, a sinner, O God!” Many who were even harder than you in their positions and their opposition to Christ have had this general story.

[@dplum87]

All you need to know is ; They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. (1 John 2:19, ESV)

[@chicken_punk_pie]

They do get into a lot more of the scientific details in their original podcasts, so I don't think criticizing them for that here is charitable. I still didn't find it convincing though.

[@chi3knees]

Man, it’s different when I came out from the world the science the philosophy the “thinkers” etc etc, that he is going into. It leads me to say something as callous sounding as - been there done that buddy, turn around and go back!

[@davida.taylor8444]

I think everyone has to make that determination on their own. If you've grown up in the church and have been subjected to it practices for a lifetime, you want freedom to make your own decisions for your own reasons, and you want to be able to freely explore other truth claims to make that decision for yourself. A lot of people who grew up in the church have wanted and gained this freedom. Maybe they will turn around and go back, but then it will be their own decision and not bc of the church or church culture they grew up in and provided a societal pressure on them. My thoughts, anyways.

[@dkonakh6539]

“I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.” ‭‭1 John‬ ‭2‬:‭21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

[@damon5894]

I really didn't want to lose my faith, but I have.

[@TheFirstAtom]

Welcome to the club. You’ll realize how much more freedom and happiness you can achieve. I’ve lost almost all my depression since deconstructing.

[@judahmarx9742]

I attended a Campus Crusade regional conference in Denver back in 2000. One featured speaker showed movie clips from "The Matrix" as sermon illustrations. I don't remember anything about the message but I remember really wanting to see the movie after the conference. It is sad that "Cru" is Woke now. I am thankful for the Christian friends that I made during that 1st year of college from Campus Crusade and for Lee and Kari who led the group.

[@Faust2Dr]

'Healthier people do not spend their time reacting to what others think, says Doug on his reaction video'. Not sure if your tongue was in your cheek!

[@grantarmbruster6591]

Reactions as in changing ones belief based on people might not like me if I believe in God.

[@kevinmiller6443]

In context he is talking about a person constantly reacting to what others think about THAT person, which is unhealthy. In the case of the video, Doug is reacting to what Rhett and Link think about the worldview of Christianity, not himself.

[@paultindall1235]

You have to understand the context. This video was like the 5th video in a series, there’s an almost 2 hr video where he does go into the details

[@kingofwaffles13]

people like y'all in the comments is exactly why they were afraid to share their stories. and also exactly why they felt the need to leave lol. if you're going to judge these two, have the fucking respect to listen to their full, unedited testimonies. not some chopped up 9 min commentary.

[@mlwilson2956]

It's obvious from watching these guys over the past several years that they took a political position against traditional Christianity because of their wokeness and the supposed "logic" and reason followed

[@DM-dk7js]

Easily one of the least intellectually honest takes I've ever seen. Let's not forget that time Doug asked Christopher Hitchens "Is logic man made?" LOL!

[@nate6760]

Dude, you’ve gotta watch the entire podcast.

[@southwife]

Thank you Brother Doug.

[@bens2801]

I think it’s funny that Rhett and Link only went public with their “faith” after they rejected it.

[@swiftf7225]

I don’t. Same reason women don’t go public about abusive husbands immediately.

[@nintendonut100]

They didn't, they mentioned that they were Christians without going into specifics beyond saying their faith was important to them a few times some years ago.

[@1ceYourPimpHand]

This video purely exists to ease believers that are looking for reassurance after hearing Rhett's testimony. Rhett talked for more than an hour but you only take 5ish minutes of his testimony and judged it on that alone. Incredibly dishonest.

[@andrewhawkins8616]

This is such a hard thing to watch. I understand what they're saying. I grew up believing what I was told to believe, but at the same time I didn't, if that makes sense. I questioned literally everything, and was backed into the proverbial (and literal) corner for doing so. I wanted to believe so hard that this is true, and yet I didn't. Fast forward through years and years of sin and, I wound up in a position where I couldn't ignore any of this anymore. My so-called faith broke, but it didn't break like theirs. I had to come to God feeling like I was going to be struck dead for admitting what I actually thought, what I had actually believed, which was that I didn't love Him, and it broke my heart. In a split second, He was there, and overwhelmed me with his presence. I cried harder than I had ever in my life, and probably harder than I ever will. I had been led to believe that God was a gavel-banging killjoy, and that He was always after me, looking for some reason to strike me dead. It was like the song Amazing Grace: "I was blind, but NOW I see." I haven't looked back since. I've stumbled all over myself, but I don't want to leave Him. I only wish that their response was similar.

[@hideokojima6106]

what do you mean by “he was there?” - how did god reveal himself to you? I am only asking because i’m curious; i mean no disrespect. it’s just that as an atheist, i find anecdotal evidence to be… weak this is coming from someone who also grew up in the catholic faith, and slowly grew out of it as I recognized how irrational the things i was told to believe were. to me, your comment reads like someone who was indoctrinated into their faith and was never able to let go. i’d love to hear your reasoning

[@00teatime]

I am really thankful for these reactions videos. Please keep it up.

[@jkm9332]

This "testimony" seems more about emotions, identity politics, and subjective moral preferences, not TRUTH.

[@carguy1979]

Spot on

[@BaconPizza]

Hahahahaha makes me laugh, kinda sad though. These people ultimately chose to turn away because the Christian life is difficult

[@docsspellingcontest592]

So difficult. Especially here in the US. Glad you’re surviving brother. Hope the police don’t find out about your illegal commenting on a Christian KZbin channel. Best keep it on the down low

[@BaconPizza]

@@docsspellingcontest592 you’re chained to sin. Get free from it, Christ can break your chains

[@thedumbassspeaks]

The worst of it is that these two have a show watched by a lot of young people.

[@ogloc6308]

1 John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us."

[@Zaloomination]

What were the criticisms he was about to level at us "white evangelicals"?

[@IronGod1640]

To be fair, Rhett have a full 2 hour story on another episode. Critique that episode

[@therchas]

You could at least watch the whole video. One could even say you had a content free response.

[@NevetsWC1134]

In one of their interviews they talk about moving to Hollywood and meeting a bunch of gay people and that was 1 of the big things that turned that turned them off of Christianity. He says he doesn't care what people think about him but that's not true at all. He cares what his new friends think and the people that own his business think.

[@martinsholl3949]

You mention that this testimony doesn't have any content, but he includes his content as well as resources in the first video which you skipped over. I would ask that you please revisit that one

[@DarthCalculus]

0:17 "... Just in case they decide not to go back to the original..." "Why wouldn't they do that? I think they need... They'll do that." Doug Wilson: does not do that

[@mv8141]

Psychologically fascinating here. You have testimony on the title, without hearing any of it, and you “guide” and direct for those watching throughout. Hmm. Would’ve been great to actually hear his reasons and story. But I suspect that is not what you wish to promote on your channel. I get such a kick out of the marketing and endless promoting at all costs and at every turn that some Christians take. The end justifies the means thing. If you get the result you want, then lying and deceit are perfectly fine. Weird. Very weird. It’s not until you step back and look at it with a better perspective does one see the con games religion must play. Can a religion say anything at all that a con man could not say. If you can’t separate your beliefs from a con, then no one can help you and you are firmly planted in the ignorance is bliss camp. Personal god is code for unfalsifiable.

[@MB-uy6ei]

“You just have to take my word for it.” People lack humility now more than ever. I was an atheist at one point and it was hell. Bless those who kept at me and helped me to understand my error and arrogance. My belief and faith has now saved me and my family. We truly do make a heaven or hell of this world, and it is only through God and his son that we can find peace. I see the anti-faith movement in the same light as one would view a petulant child revolting against their rightful and promised potential.

[@jalontf2]

I think we as Christians have pushed a "death insurance" policy of (believe in Jesus) or (suffer eternal torment). I'm increasingly believing that those who reject eternal life, will experience what they expect at death. When you die, you die, the end of your consciousness. But for those that hang on till the end as the scriptures say, life everlasting.

[@zjjhnson]

You missed the previous podcast where he went into depth, whereas this is him giving a recap. It feels like you picked this just to feel like you could slam dunk on him because they said to go to the previous episode to get more in depth information.

[@paigewells3678]

That phrase , “ I gave myself permission .” Annoys the crud out of me .

[@jaredfalk6580]

He truly says this out of love and wants his words to make a positive impact. But not believing in God any more tells me that the impact he wants to make is for others to hear him and also lose their faith in God. People proclaim their beliefs in order to get fellows.

[@John-vj6ss]

NTM, the “woke” speak of “especially white evangelicals”. Yes, yes, only white evangelicals sin anymore. Absurd.

[@michaelamezcua3271]

I find it interesting that he says nowadays the internet exposes you to many different world views . In my case the internet has increased my faith in Christ by leaps and bounds. First it was Google that introduced me to the many wonderful bible commentaries written by thoughtful men who shed light on every passage - my favourite being Mathew Henry ( brilliant and deep ) The next phase I had was right here on You Tube , listening to many preachers from bygone eras and wow they don’t make preachers like that anymore , men like C.H. Spurgeon - everyone has got to listen to the many Spurgeon audio sermons ! Also the many preachers , teachers and prophets that use the platform - I find them to be a treasure trove of insight and encouragement , it’s true you have to be careful and take it with a grain of salt sometimes but to the individual who is truly seeking, you will truly find the Truth and Wisdom of Gods Word 🙏

[@stickyrubb]

If you'd actually look at their first deconstruction video, you'd hear Rhett's reasons for leaving Christianity in all its' glorious detail.

[@awcbaseball3500]

This “testimony” could be about 15 seconds long. I got famous, moved to California, I was never truly saved (because you can’t lose salvation), I got woke, and being Christian just isn’t trendy here