Riddle School / Riddle Transfer: Flash Game History (Riddle School Legacy) | Flashlight

[@jonochrome]

[@blahblahblah1615]

Gasp a wild jonochrome appeared. You made some really good games though

[@2leftthumbs]

[@2leftthumbs]

Don't worry Chloe, there are several different groups working on Flash preservation! It's a shame that the big-wigs don't seem to care. But it shouldn't be an issue :)

[@staringgasmask]

Dude, you are incredible. You achieved something unthinkable for a flash game: Players after more than 10 years. And your games were released even before valve's orange box! Thank you for all those hours of fun I had trying to solve the puzzles. And happy 10th birthday to The Plot Twist, happy 10th birthday to the end of Riddle School, Riddle School 5

[@staringgasmask]

@Chloe Sand newgrounds has his flash player just to keep these games alive. Fortunately, small companies still look forward to their audience

[@rightdress]

I remember watching DanTDM play through the whole series... wow, it’s been a long time!

[@-Gug-]

Same

[@boredspecter8025]

Time sure does fly, I like looking back on happy memories of the past when things in the present seem rough.

[@ironking4698]

Feel old yet? Because I do

[@professorcube5104]

@@ironking4698 imma just rewatch it because it is so good

[@yotsugiononoki5343]

Same I waited each day till the next episode

[@ballisticblocker9163]

Amazing to think Jonochrome started making games at 11 years old and now he’s working with the creator of one of the most influential Horror franchises ever made.

[@Foxy02016]

And we need to thank Scott for what he’s doing, the Fanverse thing might even result in more games too, but Scott is now supporting FNaC one of the most influential FNaF games and also Popgoes which is one of the most amazing fan games, plus ONaF which while being a joke it still a good series

[@hvg6494]

They should really remaster these games, like they did with Henry Stickmin. Edit: I’ve seen his video, and totally respect his decision. A collection like that would take a ton of work, and he’s working on a bunch of stuff right now. I just put out this comment to see what people thought about the idea. Once again, while I still believe it would be a good idea, it is Jonochrome’s decision, not mine, or anyone else’s.

[@megabyte1107]

Yeah, that would make sense, considering the fact very soon, flash will be no more

[@tuc-kaankaraayan]

@@megabyte1107 I agree . Riddle Tranfer Collection sounds like a good idea.

[@leadoffdoge]

Yea

[@TheGoldNShadow]

TUC - Kaan Karaayan the riddle collection?

[@kitkatmuffin]

Yaaaas call it “Phil Eggtree’s Escapisms”

[@gleefulpebble]

Oh gd the nostalgia

[@staringgasmask]

This was literally my first game series I ever played, I miss it so much

[@jackiematanza2791]

same

[@Takittack]

preach brother

[@binglerinosthefirst1848]

So much nostalgia

[@jamracoon55]

I’ve seen you before hmmm

[@Artcat932]

Can anyone believe that JonBro made Riddle School when he was 11? That’s crazy.

[@joshay9822]

Oh man I remember this game series like it was yesterday. Like a lot of people probably, I first heard about this game via Jacksepticeye and your game remake was also how I found this channel. I was not there when the games first released but hearing all the things Jonochrome went through when creating them is really inspiring. It's also nice to see that the game got so much love even after all this time and I really hope Jonochrome has a lot of fun working on his newest projects.

[@2leftthumbs]

Interesting to know people learned about the game from Sean. I guess that makes sense though! If you weren't a regular on sites like Newgrounds back then, it would have been easy to miss. I'm glad people found it one way or another! That's awesome to know Riddle School is what first led you to the channel. Thanks for all the support Joshay!

[@MylatoninMMIX]

Riddle school and Henry stickman were my favorite game as a kid.

[@derpfluidvariant0916]

Dude same, these are the games that give me the most nostalgia. I grew up with these games and they still hold water, especially since Henry got a remaster. I finally know what everyone was talking about when they remember childhood games.

[@brokenlens337]

Henry stickman? you might be mistaken by henry stick"min"

[@staringgasmask]

@pot p you probably aren't. And I feel quite sad when any of jonochrome's games is featured in one of the top flash games, he recreated FNAF in a simple and funny way, and he's still developing a big, big project. I understand all his doubts perfectly, mainly because I also change my ideas constantly, and the only think I can do is wishing him the best luck. I hope he somedays gets the reputation he deserves

[@wyzolol]

hey you spelled stickmin wrong

[@lexjastinbaltazar]

Same

[@supleted]

I remember finally beating part 5 of the series and for the first time in my life, experience what its like to experience an epic tale from start to finish. What a time to be alive.

[@2leftthumbs]

There is something to be said about the accessibility of Flash games! Not just being free, but providing a lot of people with the experience of completing a game! I feel like that has gone a long way in peaking the interest in a lot of would-be-gamers

[@verity_amo]

Wait, YOU'RE Goat-Man??? Talk about a small world, holy crap.

[@2leftthumbs]

I eventually changed it to "Noodle" on Newgrounds, but yup! That's me hahah Are you familiar with me from some of my own old stuff, or mostly through the Riddle School cameo?

[@verity_amo]

@@2leftthumbs I remember the goat animation mostly, but also the cameo. So weird how stuff like this comes full circle, huh?

[@2leftthumbs]

Absolutely! Someday I plan to make a video where I look back on old animations of mine. Maybe even a two parter. One, looking at videos that are so old and terrible they were never even released, and another where I look back at actual stuff on Newgrounds. I'm waiting for a perfect day where I feel rested, silly, and ready for a nice nostalgic dip!

[@ohohoho7056]

He made Return to Riddle School too!

[@amc4t]

g.o.a.t.m.a.n

[@masline9350]

I remember playing Riddle Transfer 2 taking me an hour to find the chewed gum to get past the security.

[@notstickman4629]

I never did realize that John made both Riddle school and flumpties as well as you making Return To Riddle School

[@Zahn-rad]

Somehow this game has escaped my radar, but it's nice to hear that a series close to my heart, Madness Combat managed to inspire it to be made.

[@2leftthumbs]

I'd definitely recommend giving it a try! You can play through the whole series in probably ~4 hours, without the majority of that being the last 3 games. Or there are plenty of great playthroughs out there!

[@goldflowergamer3139]

I’m gonna be real. I played Riddle School 4 when I was 7 and I had ACTUAL nightmares for weeks.

[@dirtydan693]

Lmao

[@Olgasamson1989]

Hahahahha

[@deltaweathers]

Tbh same. I already knew what was gonna happen in RS4, but I got low-key scared about sitting at my desk at school bc of that lmao

[@EternalJaneDoe]

Phil’s death face terrified me. It gave me horrible nightmares. It was only this year when I replayed the games where I got to see that face again Still pretty scary

[@Ccthesergal]

oh my gosh i loved playing this series of games when the 4th one came out i was like "oh thats it well thats diapointing" then i heard there was a 5th and i was like "what WHAAAA?"

[@2leftthumbs]

I remember that as well. I think I first discovered the series around the time 2 or 3 came out (likely the 3rd, as that was when the fanbase really blew up). The 4th's release was so exciting! And then so disappointing... Pretty slick move to release them back to back like that, and still incorporate that april fools joke as canon

[@youre3592]

riddle school deserves the 'henry stickmin collection' treatment

[@WasdMan14]

Agreed

[@vreikezen8268]

agreed but no

[@yupitsnine]

Sadly, Jonichrome posted a video about why there won’t be a “riddle school collection”.

[@mikadosannoji553]

@@yupitsnine sadly, jonochrome is a amazing dev, with enought motivation he can make awesome games that Will stay on our hearts forever

[@micahchoo]

well he made the legacy editions of the games on gamejolt. theyre remasters with fixes and slight changes. it may not look like much but its the definitive way to play the game.

[@CricetoFunni]

We got a Henry Stickmin collection, can we get a Riddle School collection?

[@pantheraviva]

Criceto 👏yes👏please👏

[@kewldude7493]

Cube Kristof with some choices you have to do a puzzle??? :)

[@icewolf4640]

No

[@NeonGSP]

we are not getting that. Jon has to work on project comet, and ONAF3. And it’s not in his plans he also doesn’t want to touch the series again after he finished it either

[@kewldude7493]

@@NeonGSP aw man

[@joshc4141]

Thank god I'm not the only one who remembers this game the games series was a masterpiece so many years ago i remember those old fan arts and those old theme songs as RS fans made there own RIDDLE SCHOOL songs back then Those were the good old days RS may not be popular to many people anymore Many people may have forgotten about I but the series teached many people many things about true friends are always away there for you and to me it changed my life for years.

[@gianni50725]

Came here because Jon said he wouldn't be doing a remaster of the games (people asked him because of the Henry Stickmin Collection coming out). A shame, but who knows, maybe one day he might come around on it. It would definitely be very successful, and probably wouldn't take as much time as the Henry Stikmin Collection (which is basically a feature-length movie in flash). I know I would buy it; but I guess he's just done with the series after spending so long with it.

[@2leftthumbs]

I get where he's coming from too. The series ramped up in quality so quickly, that there would be very little worth remaking about the last few installments

[@coffeelemon6496]

But now we're getting 1 night at Flumptys 3 via the fazbear initative

[@dirtydan693]

Some hardcore fans are remastering the games themselves apparantly, like a wise purple man once said: Fine, I'll do it myself

[@2leftthumbs]

@@dirtydan693 I've heard of this. Where does one find and follow this fan project?

[@lilybelden9405]

​@@2leftthumbs There are a lot of reasons to have a collection. Availability, Playability, and Accessibility. availability- With flash going, who knows what will happen next. Newgrounds is trying a new engine. But we don't know how good it's going to be. playability- It will be easy to play. You don't need to go thru Newgrounds. just you playing your game. And let's be honest here, steam will live past Newgrounds death and beyond. accessibility- You have all the games in 1 game. You don't have to switch games to replay them. It's all in 1. Even with 7 games, it would be easy to hop in the game you want. This is not trying to change his mind on making it. I just wanted to say collections are the greatest thing since sliced bread

[@realchoodle]

This is great, you brought back so many memories. Thanks.

[@2leftthumbs]

Glad you enjoyed it choodle!

[@aaandag9688]

wait, YOU'RE goatman?! EDIT: i completely forgot about that developer commentary about return to riddle school because i saw that years before i actually got into this channel woooow

[@2leftthumbs]

Haha that's awesome that you saw that way back when! I am planning to re-do that at some point. I was so shy and quiet when recording. I think it comes across pretty lame xD If/when I re-do it, I'll probably do a full series of looking back at my old stuff

[@botconboy460]

This series grew up with me. And Jon was the first person to ever inspire me to ever want to make games. He’s come a long way since the first Riddle School, but I like that he never forgets his roots. Thanks for makin this video Goat-Man :) The story of Riddle School and the people involved in it is truly something special.

[@userfoundwow6949]

When riddle school ended I felt obligated to make a fan made “sequel” of how I wanted the series to continue😂 never ended up doing it but that doesn’t mean I’ve lost hope on doing it

[@2leftthumbs]

These characters are so fun, and well understood that I understand that completely! Besides remaking Riddle School 1, I also mapped out my own "spin-off" for lack of a better term. I too hope that I still get the chance to make that someday :D

[@userfoundwow6949]

Two Left Thumbs that would be very interesting I hope you get the opportunity to make it!

[@sergiolozano6843]

Games like these are the reason why many childhoods are made

[@echothesilent4693]

Thinking about Jonochrome breaks my heart, I enjoyed people talking about Flumpty's and I watched DanTDM's playthrough at least 4-5 times.

[@adnanalmusaher]

Outlast better than five nights at freddy's and Flumpty’s

[@my0sweet0jayjay]

i love broken age and didnt know this came out before then

[@2leftthumbs]

I was even a little taken aback when I realized that! Riddle Transfer 1 - Jun 6, 2011 Broken Age Kickstarter launch - February 8, 2012 In that way, Jon really is a pioneer. Helping to be a trend-setter in the point n click revival!

[@trashbutbetter309]

I love broken age

[@cheesemandalorian7900]

God this is such a great game series, I remember crying Because of the ending

[@doodgie7004]

Riddle School, Henry Stickmin and Fancy Pants are the 3 kings of nostalgic flash games

[@rubixdude1067]

All these games are very epic.

[@andressennn7893]

The best games on newgrounds

[@IfritBoi]

I remember playing this series in the computer lab in the early newgrounds era and waiting for years for the finale of this game and it was amazing. I've never forgotten this series ever since. Thank you for making what you make, Jonochrome!

[@kitcen777]

Happy 15th birthday, riddle school.

[@randomuserthatuwontseeagain]

indeed also this convinced me that two left thumbs reads his comments

[@MachineMan64]

welp time to save this video before it's gone.

[@speaker97]

I feel like this game really helped me kick start my love for art. This game was one of the very first fanart pieces I ever drew. It helped me realize I love point and click games and story telling. 4 years later I think my 6th grade self would be proud of me for drawing this game again. I just can't come up with a good layout. Amazing video!

[@ReylordFX]

Jon really make how flash can take click and point Adventure to the next level and inspired me to make a riddle Transfer animations... But now it's a series became quite original lol. Thanks Jon, happy 15th anniversary for the Riddle School Series.

[@Nostalife]

I literally fell in love with this series, Watch KZbinrs played it since they came out, and stayed till it end. What a experience

[@supermario863]

I first heard about this series during the time that Dan started making videos on it near the 10th anniversary of the game. So while I might have not been around for as long as some others... I still feel like I have a huge connection to the series. I remember back then when I realized that the first game's 10th anniversary was on... May 25th, originally releasing all the way back in 2006. This date is significant to me because it's actually my birthday, and that is legit one of the craziest coincidences I've ever been involved in. So from the beginning I knew I had a personal connection to this series, even though I got into it a lot later than most of you guys did. Still, I feel the same way about it as many of you do.

[@michael_v2624]

so glad I found this reminds me of what KND could have been...Thanks a lot TLT / goat-man and Jon!

[@2leftthumbs]

Our pleasure!

[@parentheses4662]

Nostalgia feel? Eh kinda for me, Here along time ago. Edit: at danTDM

[@friccle_]

I dont get how people so young can make things so iconic

[@martin_mc3105]

I have played the whole series more times than I will ever admit

[@ashofruins761]

I remember playing this game in elementary school, back when Riddle School 5 had been on the front page of Andkon Arcade. I had started from the beginning and worked my way back, and it's still one of my favorite flash series from my childhood. I was so excited when Jack started playing the series and enjoyed the trip back down memory lane. I hadn't realized there never was an ending until Jack came across it in his final episode. Thank you so much for telling the story behind this amazing series!

[@Mothlocks]

When he smiles at the end my heart just goes 🥺

[@umbruh98]

i'm on a newgrounds nostalgia trip atm, and i know that i knew it at the time, but it's just clicking in my head that riddle school is like a madness-pico's school hybrid. this series that made me cry happy tears and made me smile like an idiot at the "stay in school" message in RS5, was inspired by one of NG's most famous games that would have never been embraced today, and THE MADNESS.

[@shubhdashukla7692]

The very notion this series ended is enough to make me go into a state of depression as these games were my childhood

[@keeboy6783]

This game was my childhood, I grew up with it. I was so young I never heard about all of these things going on behind the scenes.

[@Blue_Streak_Studios]

"several fangames of riddle school" Me: "uh why do I see bendy and the ink machine?" (17:28)

[@2leftthumbs]

I did my best to filter down the search result, but I guess somewhere in that game's description they used some keywords that resulted in it showing up in that search

[@milesgaunt6767]

Bendy is a Riddle School fangame confirmed

[@jangzhang7323]

Flash games will always have a special place in my heart. Espescially riddle school.

[@pepijn23]

My memories of breaktime during middle schools. I wish Johnochrome could remake this for steam like we did with Henry Stickmin.

[@CaramelodyTheSongBunny]

Honestly this video made me cry Riddle school touched my heart and it’s just amazing And I hope people love it for years to come

[@Taffee]

O man this whole thing felt like forever ago. All the memories be rushing back to me right now. Watching Dan play, playing the games myself. It was epic

[@Death_Skull]

Its also nice how looking at the older games after the new ones, there was accidental (or jon went back to turn it into) forshadowing. Like if hou click the first fire extinguisher in riddle school 1 it talks about zach and fire

[@dakingofyeet4541]

This is literally the pg version of Pico's School .

[@cheeselad2401]

lol

[@shrekusmcheckus9826]

Oof I have to delete my comment now

[@_alex.j]

still can’t believe your goat man

[@kablammo123]

"And 4 of you have probably played it yourself" I love that line

[@LunaMinuna]

Wow Madness and Pico’s school(top 5 of my favorite Newgrounds content) inspired a Newgrounds game I played as a kid. Memories 😭

[@maximilien4441]

OMG I still remember this music ! Ohh so nastolgic.

[@professionalclown7166]

TO those who are curious as to what jonachrome is up to he's currently making an official fnaf fan game it's the 3rd installment of the onaf because the creator (Scott Cawthon) wanted to support these developers and therefore he created a group of developers to make a game for the fanverse initiative, he is funding the development of these games and he's also working with clickteam ( the developer of the engine that 85% of the franchise uses) to port these games to mobile and console. Jonachrome actually finished his game already he just wants to release it when the other ports are ready.

[@adnanalmusaher]

Outlast is better than fnaf and onaf

[@bullahboi3064]

I miss this game it’s one of my top 10 Favourite games of all time the best flash game I’ve ever played I like it more then undertale

[@nikogaming683]

oh wow i didnt know that you made the goat and return to riddle school. you did a really good job on the remake

[@2leftthumbs]

Thanks so much!

[@The_Swagmeister]

I first saw riddle school through dan’s playthrough. The ending made me cry ngl

[@LetsSaboogi]

I was an avid watcher of DanTDM for my whole childhood, and when he started the playthrough of this game, I followed it from start to finish. I loved it so much that I ended up watching it with my older brother, too. I never played it myself because I never had a computer anyway, but I thought that the game itself was _fantastic._ The overall development of it over time and the way that the lore progressed in such a shocking yet holistic way... it felt like going on a whole journey with the developer. I remember being so happy when the final installment was released coincidentally just as Dan had caught up! The games also had a charming and refreshing edge of being so personable in its dialogue and characterization; I laughed aloud plenty of times. I never would have guessed that those first games were made by another kid my age at the time! That's genuinely so incredible! I'm happy for the success of his awesome creativity, but I also understand the shadow that comes with it, and I'm happy that he was able to eventually wrap it up in a way that he felt satisfied with. I definitely have a big place in my heart for this one. P.S. Wow. I _did not expect_ you to reveal yourself as the goat man _and_ as the developer of Return to Riddle School! That's insane! This is only the second video that I've watched from your channel... small world!!

[@floyddog2283]

Damn this is so nostalgic to see the whole series; I remember finding out about riddle school 5 so many years later. I didn’t play it but I did go back to watch a play through of all the games and it was great

[@amarillodragon2702]

This is where 2020 has brought me. A blast of the past full of nostalgia I didn't even know I had. :,)

[@isakts8576]

God, I remember watching DanTDM playing this a good few years back

[@ultra-lyla4736]

Same!

[@KlLLERROBOT99]

I remember starting a huge conversation on RS5’s comment section on NGs. You can probably still see it there today way back when it originally came out. I really do hope that maybe in the far off future we will see a full RS series remaster get a release like how the Henry Stickmin collection was done. It would be worth it to see the old series many many people grew up playing on NGs come back to life.

[@MysticalGoatKnight]

It's pretty fascinating that I was nearly the same age as this developer when the first Riddle School was released, I'm just a year younger than them.

[@theadventuresofsockopuppet8435]

I love riddle school! I’m glad you made a video on it.

[@misscornbread]

Sister: oh that’s the kid from Friday night fu- Me: *oh boy here I go killing again*

[@Jpinkyfan]

I remember watching dantdm play the games and finding out the series was abandoned. very sad I was BUT THE NEW ONE CAME OUT IT WAS SO GOOD

[@FullForceGamingYT]

Awesome video. Love the recap of the whole story

[@sixtenfrid6895]

Man oh man this is so nostalgic not me playing the riddle school games but me playing flash games on newgrounds when i was about 6

[@slayeroftheworld783]

Riddle school will always be in my heart

[@jovhannyfeliciano7179]

I never would've found and played the series if I didn't see DanTDM's videos of it a year or two ago. It was an amazing experience.

[@BazingaHeroin]

That game is so good, i remember this, so nostalgia, here in brazil one youtuber maked a serie called "fugindo da escola" in english is "escaping from school" unfortunately he priv all the videos, but was so good man

[@audii-kun6431]

"The school itself is larger than ever..." _The exterior clearly contradicts that statement._

[@sebshenzero9519]

wow i missed an good game series thanks for the video you got me interested in the game!

[@2leftthumbs]

I did my best to not spoil any actual puzzles, and kept the story overview quite generalized. So I think (hope) there will still be plenty to enjoy by playing through it yourself. Have fun!

[@jaret703]

I can't believe this only has 23k views this is such high quality content Even though I'm not a big fan of riddle school this got me interested

[@FrostytheSnowman721]

Imagine the series getting a remaster

[@ultrabeastboyz939]

I was literally thinking of this this morning abd forgot it’s name and saw this video in my recommendation thanks for covering this game series

[@omlt.9313]

just went back and replayed the series, how the hell was this difficult as a kid?

[@professionalfangster1510]

You brought back a memory I didn't know I had.

[@lazo1681]

"if the lights are on then we'll come find you and rip you a brand new face"

[@lazo1681]

@Space Man its from one night at flumptys 2

[@thelavaslug5465]

@Space Man He only made one ONAF song...

[@Whipo0]

dude i love riddle school. i found the 3rd game, i think it was on newgrounds, and just watched the entire series as quickly as is could (i wasn't good enough at the games to beat it myself) and absolutely loved every second of it.

[@AnthonyMtheGamerArtist]

I honestly wonder if Riddle School should stay in the past, or if it should get a remake from the fans for its 20th anniversary in 2026. But with what Jon became, I'm wondering how people would percieve it. The Legacy Editions are fine, but there is still room to develop the series and help fans attach to it even more. But even if it doesn't happen, I hope the series persists beyond Jon's initial influence.

[@bilIy]

Riddle school five and riddle school transfer are my definite favorite point and click games

[@JJCG4MES]

Happy 15th anniversary to riddle school

[@ghd2966]

Oh my g o d i played this game the last time i played was around 5 or 6 years ago- but seeing the name and the character in the title made me remember everything

[@kinghobothe4th837]

This game series is actually surprisingly wholesome for fuckin NEWGROUNDS games.

[@alexairheart9051]

I've actually never heard of this series! Looks like it's right down my alley though, too bad i dont have a computer right now...

[@2leftthumbs]

It really is a lot of fun! Definitely worth checking out :) I know Newgrounds is working on trying to allow certain Flash games to be played through mobile devices. Riddle School hasn't been adapted yet. But hopefully it's on their to-do list!

[@DeadX2]

Oh boy you are on a adventure than

[@logans.7932]

Now that the Stickmin Collection is finalized... I think I know what’s next. Well, I can dream lol.

[@mikadosannoji553]

yes, sadly jon made a vid about why he isnt doing the RS collection

[@Duckverse]

@@mikadosannoji553 He did make rereleases with special scenes and bug fixes though

[@cuhyu382]

Forgot about this game but damn I loved playing these and watching tutorials when I couldn’t figure out what to do

[@kitkatmuffin]

Riddle School is an amazing series and while I don’t really want any more games I would love to see more of the franchise. Like a T-Shirt that shows a photo of Phil and says “Mathness” or “I gotta get outa here” or something. Or maybe even a spinoff game where Smiley is a teacher and has to solve puzzles for something (like what if her students were kidnapped by other aliens as a sort of reattempt at Vizion or something and she had to save em). Nah maybe just a T-Shirt would do.

[@kindasus899]

name a more iconic duo: Henry Stickmin Riddle School

[@Foxy02016]

Cool Math Games and Run

[@cattail789]

todc classic and the pain of falling to floor 1 from the final floor

[@officiallylazlo]

Minecraft terria

[@icewolf4640]

Fortnite Trash

[@nyahahahahahahahahaha]

Henry Stickmin and Among Us

[@milotheduck1254]

This truly shows that age doesn't matter while making a game

[@dissonanceparadiddle]

I was so happy to see this series come to a sweet ending

[@shadowotter2880]

I don't know what you mean, the goat is clearly the greatest character, no doubt about it.

[@Lideki]

Seeing this makes me cry i miss these games

[@FilledOfOJ]

I like how zack just shrugged about the fact he is getting shot

[@AlexaAXAG]

how i wish i had access to the internet back in 2006 to see these games grow up alongside me...

[@rafaellmoretti7]

Now Jonbro is making "one night at flumpty's 3"

[@jaybrick75]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS WUPPO YES YES YES ITS LITERALLY MY FAVORITE GAME EVER I AM SO GLAD YOU SHED SOME LIGHT ON IT