Rings of Power is Fine

[@k8inscotland349]

"it's in the book you can read" will be written on your tombstone, imploring all those who wish to invoke the lore to try just a little, just a lil bit, please, just a baby bit

[@tolkien-trash]

put me in the DIRT

[@BlazingOwnager]

To quote the esteemed scholar of the past, Triumph to insult dog... "Rings of Power is Fine... for me to poop on."

[@iconicnzz6414]

Everyone has the right to hold their own opinion and no one should argue that. But for me at least, I just cannot make sense of the claim that ROP was an ok show outside of the Tolkien Lore aspect. I'm not even that big of a LoTR fan and have only ever fully read the Silmarillion. But what I am is a fan of great writing and filmmaking, and the dialogue and certain shots of the show had me rolling my eyes. ROP is the definition of lazy and corporate. Even the Hobbit movies held more substance than this show, just by virtue of interesting shots and dialogue peppered throughout the trilogy. The point is that we shouldn't be upset because the show bent the lore or used identity politics as a defense for doing so. We should be upset because "fine" is considered the gold standard nowadays.

[@tolkien-trash]

Thanks for watching! I must say I agree, and I didn’t spend time talking about the bad dialogue or the shitty costuming or the annoying “writing” because we don’t have all day, and honestly the show isn’t worth my time on here. I find the fandom’s response to it more interesting than the thing itself, and even that is tepid at this point. If they’re going to make a superficial thing, I’m going to approach it in a superficial way. This is my one and only video on this topic because I don’t care about it that much-I care more about the text ¨̮ thanks again.

[@Chociewitka]

@@tolkien-trash the issue is - the story in RoP did not made sense - and even more than anything else, Tolkien took great care in making his world inwardly coherent, RoP is anything but, it is the pure "randomness" - no part of it makes any sense - even the same character few scenes apart tends to contradict her/himself completely. BTW. Peter Jackson movies do have non-white people too, but there where the books have them - in Harad. And the Hobbit movies were diverse - Laketown had people from Harad - and some from Rhun - and while Rhun makes sense and could be even expanded upon, people from Harad make no sense beyond some few wandering merchants. And Tolkien took care to make his world biologically cohesive - he took great care even to calculate the moon phases! The Rohirrim have blond hair because they came from the far North several centuries before. How people look in Tolkien makes biological sense due to their heritage - not so in RoP where it is "completely random".

[@Rags]

If you think this is a completely acceptable fantasy show, the genre is fucking doomed.

[@tolkien-trash]

Yeah, “completely” is really doing some work there huh. Perhaps I misspoke-it is an acceptable show, not at all wholly or completely. In parts it is, in fact, completely unacceptable.

[@lisacook8235]

Nori's name royally pissed me off too. And like you I can't quite shake the impression that things like this are just a little malicious.

[@blakeriley8546]

I want to love everything middle earth related, and I think the heartbreak of what Rings of Power was makes it so that "fine" is worse than a low budget "bad" show. The biggest thing that made me question if the stranger was Gandalf is that in the first episode they point out that the fire in the cave is "so evil it burns cold" then the strangers asteroid lands and Nori crawls right in their suffering no burns. That threw me right through a loop.

[@tolkien-trash]

It does sting, doesn’t it? It sucks so bad that this incredible text seems doomed to adaptation attempts that continue to fall flat. I do think time will do its good work here-in 2006 I was pulling my hair out wondering how the hell Gimli knows about the central nervous system, but over time that line became a funny and silly quirk of PJ’s movies for me. Similarly, in time, maybe we’ll be able to simply forget about Rings of Power. Hope kindles. Thank you for watching.

[@jasonable2313]

Did not expect that pina colada flashback to my grandma's freezer.

[@DIRKMCGURDIGAN]

I feel you to a degree on Nori's full name, but my biggest gripe about ROP is that I'll be dead in the ground before I pronounce Gilgalad like that.

[@tolkien-trash]

I didn’t talk about Gil-Galad in this one because I don’t want to get another noise complaint from the neighbors; couldn’t agree more dude. Please give me your best phonetic spelling of how to say Gil-Galad because I say it differently every time and my credibility at pedant conventions is waning fast.

[@DIRKMCGURDIGAN]

@@tolkien-trash I've been saying "gill-guh-lad" for as long as I can remember, and I have no plans to stop.

[@gingerbaker_toad696]

Fuck yea 😅❤

[@isaacstovell867]

as with your first video a refreshingly level-headed take on both lore & fandom, thanks that said, dammit now I'm also annoyed about Elanor Kellemar Brandyfoot (albeit not as annoyed as I am to remember that Nerdrotic exists)

[@mewling_mooncalf]

excited for this new video! also love all the drag race clips, perfect choices.

[@tolkien-trash]

Thanks for watching! ¨̮

[@IsaacMuntz]

Rings of power was so bad people walked out. And it was on a plane mid flight

[@neilslorance6786]

Hell yeah my favourite content creator!!

[@ZephyrOptional]

You make a really good point that ROP was trying to be a prequel to the PJ movies rather more than a faithful adaptation of Tolkien. I also agree that doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy it for what it is. From what I see, those who have the most hate for ROP often have only movie level, superficial understanding of the lore like dwarven women with beards stuff. I can trash ROP all day long for all it’s issues but could do the same with the PJ films and earlier cartoon adaptations. But I also love and enjoy them tremendously. The films won’t take you to Faerie. Only the text can do that. I love to draw & paint Tolkien’s world and understand what I see in my minds eye is going to be different than anyone else’s and would hope people wouldn’t hate me for my artistic interpretations and assumptions.

[@TLowGrrreen]

"Follow your nose... It always knows!" They stole Toucan Sam's catchphrase from old Froot Loops commercials.

[@Hinatachan360]

My major problems with Rings of Power: 1. Galadriel is a powerful mage. She never wore armor in the books nor did she wield a sword. She didn't need those things because her magic was crazy powerful. 2. Disa should have a beard. She would look awesome with a magnificent Dwarven beard with braids and golden beads. Even Peter Jackson got female Dwarves right by giving them beards in The Hobbit movies. 3. Elves aren't supposed to have fades. They're known for having long hair and taking pride in their beautiful long locks. They could have at least given him long braids or dreadlocks.

[@ZephyrOptional]

Obviously a PJ movie fan. 1. Yes she did in some of the may versions of her story. She “fought fiercely” in the first kin-slaying and was filled with “anger” and “pride”. She is not a “mage”. Read what she says to Sam about “elf magic”. 2. Dwarven women with beards is very open to debate and intended to be a mystery. Also Disa actually had a very thin beard in ROP if you look real close. 3. Tolkien describes several elves with long hair but that would not mean they all did, but saying they are known for taking “pride” in their hair is not true. Only the golden house of Finarfin was known for their hair but never described as prideful with its keeping. Actual major lore issues: 1. Gilgalad having the power to send elves to the undying lands as a reward. 2. 2 Durins at the same time. 3. Magical mystery mithril with balrog power. 4. Oath breaking Elrond.

[@godoforder1828]

Elf straight out of the hood lmao

[@museli5106]

The true disrespect is the lack of regard for the source material that tolkien literally made!!! THE SILMARILLION ALREADY EXISTS. Why are they making a dumbass fanfiction modernised version of already established lore and expecting it to be praised and accepted like it isnt anything more than a soulless attempt at a second game of thrones made by a cynical megacorporation that snaked its way into ownership of the LOTR name by money?

[@tolkien-trash]

Because money! As much as I want to lean into the naïveté of wanting art made for the sake of art, I know this thing got made because they’re after money. You see it for what it is, so do I, so do we all-you don’t have to give the show time and attention if you don’t want to, as infuriating as its mere existence may be. I so appreciate you watching and commenting-I feel your passion and share it! This video is me attempting to reconcile my disappointment, thanks for being here.

[@museli5106]

@@tolkien-trash Nah it’s all good, don’t mean this comment as an attack against you or down that line, you as a fellow Tolkien fan and especially as someone who read the book can probably just understand the frustration toward the situation. Sadly a lot of criticism of rings of power is in bad faith though and is a little bit more malicious.

[@inwestvalinorbornandraised]

Actually buzzing for this video, fully helped me organise my thoughts on this show! It being a copy of a copy that makes it jarring at times is the nail on the head for sure, and holy shit the breakdown of the Harfoot naming structure has given me a whole new reason to loathe the writers. With everything the Appendixes offers, the show could have been a much nicer balance of never before seen on screen lore fan service and Amazon branded fun time elves running up chains and shit. I dunno, maybe I would have been happier with a Hobbit reboot. Gary cannae read and I’m embarrassed for him. And can we get a fit check, because that shirt is fuckin savage mate.

[@tolkien-trash]

Thank you for watching my dude, really appreciate it. I’m all for turning my brain off to enjoy things, but this show had my brain firing back up to set off sirens and alarms at how uncannily similar it is (and pale in comparison) to the PJ movies-and not in a flattering type of way, in a “we’re going to emulate this vision because it’s the only acceptable one” type of way and oh buddy it’s very boring. As soon as I calibrated my expectations by burying them underground I was able to have an okay time with it, but I do wish they would have read the material they’re adapting. I have been saying for years that they never should have made The Hobbit into movies, it should have been a TV adaptation or nothing. It’s an episodic story told chapter-by-chapter, the structure is already there, and that story lends itself so well to that format! But hey, there’s money to be made. Gary’s in his 50s brother, I can’t read him any worse than life already has. And thank you, the shirt is vintage Mondi-a label so old the tag says “made in West Germany.” It’s one of my faves from my mom’s archive, thanks for noticing ¨̮

[@inwestvalinorbornandraised]

@@tolkien-trash​​⁠​⁠​⁠ my brains barely even on, so I should have been a perfect candidate for this show. I figured early on the show was going to be LOTR lite, geared towards giving people who aren’t into the series a way in while leaving room to keep diehards happy but they took it too far when they woke up Sean the Balrog with a god damn leaf. Six parter, 45-80 mins an episode, coulda been a smash hit. But nooo we got Legolas defying gravity in a story he wasn’t even a part of 🙃 I’d be lying if I didn’t admit to giving ‘An Unexpected Journey’ a pass though, probably the only one to stick to a passable amount of canon while not flogging the artistic liberty horse. God damn, taxi for Gary! You’re doing Eru’s work with this kind of discourse, down with the hate filled subsection of this fandom. Yer maws got style.

[@lucymolockian1849]

The Hobbit films have been heavily criticized.

[@danielstride198]

Kalimac is Merry's real Westron name.

[@tolkien-trash]

And Pippin’s real name is Razanur, which is 1000% cooler than the Common Speech translation

[@danielstride198]

To clarify, I thought the hobbit middle-name thing was a shout-out to Kalimac.@@tolkien-trash

[@tolkien-trash]

I didn’t even think of that! Good shout. Maybe I’m just being a dingus but I don’t know if I feel like reaching that far for the writers on this one…if they came up with Elanor Brandyfoot and ran with it I don’t think they’re pulling up references to Kalimac Brandagamba with an actor name insertion that also breaks hobbit naming conventions. But I do like the idea very much, not least because it raises a million question marks about Nori’s ancestry and descendants-I wonder if they’re trying to connect some dots. We shall see ¨̮ thanks for watching

[@seosamh.forbes]

Its like the live action Ghost In The Shell with ScarJo: it can stand alright on it's own in it's genre, but can't hold even a finger to the original material.

[@kingkwon8002]

RoP couldn’t stand up in its own genre, it was flattened under the weight of HotD and rightfully so. The only reason s2 is happening is because it’s back by a corporate giant

[@barbarazmysowska5185]

Why is Sindarin a horse language? (also why did they copy the scene where Aragorn calmed a horse and fired up Eowyn's crush on him to provide Elendil and Isildur with a bonding moment?)

[@tolkien-trash]

THANK YOU for mentioning this! The Balrog and the “daddy speaks Elvish to horses for a Special Bond” are two other elements they ripped directly from the PJ movies, apparently without cracking the books. We know Aragorn is Isildur’s heir, so we gotta tie these boys together somehow! I’ve got it-horse magic! I need to do some research on Middle-Earth horse canon (Brego from the movies is a horse of Rohan but the Mearas and other horses in Middle-Earth are descended from Valinorean horses, I think, so I guess some horses do understand Elvish), but my little silly conjecture would be that Sindarin is to horses as human dog voices are to dogs. They may not understand what’s being said, but it sounds nice and they get the gist. I’ll report back once I’ve more thoroughly indulged the intersection of horse girl and Tolkien fan, thanks for watching ¨̮

[@Dyrnwynn]

This is easily one of the most balanced, nuanced, and (in my opinion) dead-on accurate takes on both Rings of Power itself, and so much of the 'fans' reactions to it. Well done.

[@tolkien-trash]

Much appreciated and much obliged, thank you for watching!

[@JChef141]

Respect your knowledge of the sacred texts.

[@tolkien-trash]

*bows low* thank you for watching ¨̮

[@fakebroomstick]

Thank you for making this video 😭😭 This is the first I’ve come across your channel,, definitely sticking around!! Great work!

[@tolkien-trash]

Thank you for watching, glad to have you here ¨̮

[@Plasmacid2097]

I think the biggest thing that put me off was the portrayal of Galadriel. Not because she is a woman, but because she's an Elf. When reading (and even in the movies) I always saw Galadriel as being ethereal, pagan and fey. As Sam calls her, "perilously fair". Nearly inhuman in mindset and manner. Alluring yet dangerous in a way resembling some pre-Christian deity or someone like Judge Holden from Blood Meridian (extreme example). Just not a being an ordinary human can relate to. That is my biggest gripe with this show that I think PJ's movies also struggled with to a lesser extent. The elves just feel like humans with pointy ears, not the closest of all the Children to the Ainur. Like we're in a D&D setting and they get +2 Int or something. I feel like this show has missed an opportunity to read closer to the text and make these characters feel mythological, larger than life, like I'm watching Shakespeare or a Greek play with actual demigods and deities. That I feel would have been more appropriate for this Age. Instead, they went with a safer route and made a passable fantasy show, but it doesn't feel super *Tolkien*. We could have gotten an Arthurian/Homeric Galadriel, but she wouldn't have been as relatable to mass audiences as a protagonist. I get what you're saying when you say "it's in the book you can read". but I feel like they've missed out on an opportunity to bring out what makes Tolkien unique among fantasy settings. Also, when the show came out I went off about "Elanor Brandyfoot" to my friends and everyone looked at me like I was insane. You are the only other person I've seen mention it!

[@tolkien-trash]

Thank you so much for this comment, I agree that the characterization of Galadriel (and the elves, I put in my notes that they cast hobbit-looking guys to play the elves) in the show is seriously lacking, and if I have any sort of hope it’s that we see some character development there. However, my expectations, spectral and dim, are in the dirt. And I’m glad at least one other person gets the Elanor Brandyfoot thing! That awakened something in me and I’m embarrassed that anything about Rings of Power got to me like that. Thank you for watching ¨̮

[@Fuzzwahwah]

Rings of power is fine… for people with insomnia

[@stokesbook]

Literally the best Tolkien discussion on KZbin

[@tolkien-trash]

Adding this to my CV. Thank you so much for watching dude!

[@writethepath8354]

So like.... did you read OFUM?

[@tolkien-trash]

Hadn’t before; am now and I will never forgive you for making me ¨̮

[@writethepath8354]

@tolkien-trash 😆 the least of my sins I'm sure

[@HK23783]

The, everyone who says it is bad is a rasict, narrative does not fly at all. Especially, when you take in consideration that many people thought that Disa and Arondir were perhaps the best characters in the show. You know, the only darker main characters. I'm a diehard Tolkien fan and lorebreaking and horrendous writing aside, I liked those two, and Durin and Elrond, best😅

[@tolkien-trash]

Thanks for watching ¨̮ I want to clarify that I don’t think everyone who says the show is bad is necessarily racist. However, the criticisms of the show that I observed before the show even came out were not based on writing or lore-breaking, because none of us had seen the show yet-initial reactions were based solely on the appearance of the cast, and that’s what caught my attention and influenced my lens for this video. I’m sorry I didn’t make that sufficiently clear!

[@HK23783]

Thank you for a kind comment. It is true, that there are fans to who skin colours matters WAY too much. I have to confess that it bothers me too a little, but I have clarify why. Internal consistency matters to me, even in fantasy. When it is just the one token character that is different visually without explanation, it takes me out of immersion. If it was a whole group of dark skined elves, it would bother me LESS. Coupled that with a comment from show runners "it has to reflect the world we live in today"... I'm sure you can admit that that comment sounds kinda weird about a fantasy show of all things.

[@tolkien-trash]

I think the showrunners are misguided, both in that statement and in their approach to the show. Suggesting that people of color are only relevant in “the world we live in today” is its own special brand of racism, and I don’t agree with that impulse on the writers’ part. I also personally don’t think that necessarily excludes people of color from Middle-Earth. I appreciate you watching and commenting, thanks for sharing your perspective.

[@HK23783]

@@tolkien-trash What bothers me most is that there areas in Tolkiens world with people of different skin colours and cultures. That would have been so cool to see. Imagine, people fighting against the colonizing Numenorians. Something completely new, but still in Tolkiens world.

[@Chociewitka]

@@tolkien-trash because the random appearances made it clear that the show producers do not care about in-world mechanics but only for "modern sensibilities" - and if Tolkien was against something it were "modern sensibilities" - were RoP to depict an Haradian kindgom struggling to avoid being coerced by Mordor the same fans would have cried out if said kingdom's royal family and its general population would have been depicted "white" - this would have been equally "out of place". People of Rhun should be Asian looking - hope that we will see it in Season 2 - and if is not I assure you the very same audience will cry out.

[@SoulGameStudio]

I enjoyed the added inclusivity very much, I share your feeling about the elf and the dwarves, and the overall enjoyable fantasy landscape really amazed me! And Galadriel as a main character ? Yes please. But... I feel like they butchered her. Are they so unseasy writting a powerful and mightly woman that they have to make her act like a childishly angry teenager who's got attitude? So they go like "Hey, look, our woman isn't weak at all, she is a badass fury, always angry at everything and everyone, and she's so independant and strong that she takes irrational decisions and bite instead of talking! That's progressive, right?" Not really though. That convey the same old misogynistic tropes that "women are irrationnal/angry" that we have since antiquity really. And by all mean, show me her anger, when the situation begs for it, like you would do for any man really. But her badass act is so omnipresent that it becomes ridicule. And that's a pity because it makes for poor female representation (better than nothing still) but it's also firewood for bigoted reactionary content like the one you pointed out. Rant finished! I will not get into Sauron-agorn because I'm mad enough :D

[@eternalvoid8153]

ACK

[@zatornagirroc7175]

Thank you so much for your reasoned reaction to this thing. I do wonder what did people actually expect from this? Did they expect wonderful writing and dialog? I wish they would understand that the Jackson movies had wonderful writing and dialog because it was an adaption of wonderful writing and dialog. I actually got what I expected - a story! Maybe not told particularly well when compared to Tolkien's story telling abilities and skills, but who on earth can do that? It is a story about this world that I love. They didn't really have a ton of source material. It just boggles my mind all the hate people have for Rings of Power. And it's so backwards - I personally have a lot more hate for the Jackson movies because of what they did (and probably had to do) to make a story like that work in a movie and be accessible to as many people as possible.

[@protoman1214]

I also found some fun in the series as long as you turn your brain off sufficiently, but even then I found plenty of scenes where I rolled my eyes. Its perfectly serviceable if it were a generic fantasy show, but the fact that so much money went into it along with the franchise name, I think its fair for people to expect more whether Amazon was at the helm or not. There is certainly some bad actors in the criticism/fandom... but chalking it all up to racism is not fair. I personally don't like Nerdrotic's content, his outrage is always front and center ahead of any actual legitimate criticism. I'm certainly no racist/sexist, the inclusion of a more diverse cast isn't offensive in itself. The issue I had was the impact to the world building. There is no cohesion or logic to the inclusion of the diverse cast. Every single faction, small village, city, island all have equally diverse people. It reminds of me of cheesy B movies that supposedly take place in Mexico but all the extras are clearly from India/Pakistan. It just comes off very odd and confusing. Good world building should be like good editing, where great editing goes largely unnoticed but bad editing is very jarring. Good world building should firmly establish a sense of the environment and differentiation between locations. Game of Thrones accomplished this much better in my opinion. I also enjoy movies and tv shows with female leads, as Netflix refuses to let me forget. That in mind, the one criticism I can get on board with from even the harshest critics is Galadriel. I really assumed the reviews panning her character were just misguided or overly critical because she is a women. But upon watching it myself, there are just too many unsettling choices with that character that make her so incredibly unlikeable. I put the blame largely on the writing and not the actress. You alluded at the start of your video that you liked her "sometimes", but only mentioned a few positives and absolutely no negatives, unless I missed that part of the video?

[@tolkien-trash]

Thank you for watching and for your comment! I agree with so much of what you’ve said here, and I must admit I didn’t focus on too much outright and specific criticism of the show because this would have been 4 hours long if I had. I mentioned one thing I kinda like about Galadriel, and a superficial compliment on her appearance, because I’m reaching for things to like. I agree that valid criticism of the show goes beyond racism and sexism, but the majority of what I saw from the fandom falls into the latter camp rather than the former. I didn’t dig into my specific criticisms of the show because there are too many to neatly mention in a video, and I’m looking forward to moving on from thinking about this disappointing show. Thank you again!

[@tolkien-trash]

Also: I do agree with your feedback about worldbuilding, and maybe I have a screw loose, but thinking about why people look a certain way in RoP just leads me to thinking about why a hobbit and a dwarf in PJ’s LotR both have Scottish accents. How did that happen. Why did that happen. I know Fran and Philippa think Tooks are Scottish so that’s fine but GIMLI? Different Scottish accent but still-and you *know* that because John Rhys-Davies made Gimli Scottish, that’s why the dwarves in RoP are Scottish. This is why I had to make a KZbin channel-my tinfoil hat attracts a lot of attention in public.

[@protoman1214]

@@tolkien-trash fair enough, maybe I don’t get the overwhelming sense of racist fandom because I largely stay away from Twitter… its just a cesspool for that kinda stuff. Its fair that addressing the issues with the show would take too long. Anyways I appreciate your sense of humor in your reply. Accents are definitely another one of those things that will catch my attention.

[@tolkien-trash]

you’re a smarter man than I for staying away from the ex-bird app. thanks again ¨̮

[@XenoRaxus]

Fine isn't good enough, as soon as you said "turn your brain off" you lost me. I hate we just accept garbage content that could've been phenomenal. Why are we settling for less? Not only do we deserve better but so does the source material

[@tolkien-trash]

I don’t disagree with you, but when it’s Amazon at the helm I really can’t get my hopes up. Fine is not good enough indeed-I *am* disappointed in Rings of Power, it took me ages to watch it again and it was overwhelmingly “meh.” I just think “settling” and “having realistic expectations considering the circumstances” are two different things. Thank you for watching and commenting either way, I appreciate you.

[@XenoRaxus]

@@tolkien-trash Thanks for the perspective, you're definitely right about managing expectations when you know who's at the helm

[@oscarstainton]

No. No, I'm sorry but, there is no argument to be made that this show is "acceptable" and somehow a better put together production than Jackson's Hobbit movies. This series is a trash fire that makes Gorgoroth look like the Garden of Eden. Farewell.

[@tolkien-trash]

Thanks for watching! I do not think, nor did I say, that RoP is a “better put together production” than Jackson’s Hobbit movies. I think they’re both not great, for different reasons, and both are hardly worth my time or yours.

[@LordBilliam]

Yup. It's made in the same way as the last few seasons of GoT; a writing room where peopel start sentences with "Wouldn't it be cool if..." with no regard for logic, believability, theme, or motivation. Low IQ writing for the tiktok-brained generation.

[@godoforder1828]

​​@@LordBilliamits made by a bunch of out of touch boomers and milennials trying to hit ESG diversity quotas and marketing trends, and also shoehorning their "modern adaptation" bullshit into classic stories, utterly corrupting the source material and turning it a steaming pile of hot garbage

[@thanos6643]

Rings of Power was the worst show ever to grace TV,it was a disgrace to tolkien

[@Jacob-fz5ho]

I also thought rings of power was fine, at least the hobbit and dwarf parts. The human and elf parts were less great

[@brormand_spyt]

please correct me if I'm wrong - I haven't watched the show because I don't support amazon and I also haven't read any of the books because I'm iliterate - BUT I don't really buy the narrative that any and all who dislike the rings of power do so based on ignorance, racism and sexism. Of course I don't doubt for a moment that some do and that one guy in perticular is a piece of shit, but I just don't see him representing anything other than a very loud, very small minority. I have heard a lot of perfectly objective and valid critisism of the show and frankly I see some strawmanning in this video that comes across as dishonest or even malicious. the point about Galadriel not being a Mary Sue because Tolkien wrote the books before Mary Sue was invented doesn't really hold water when you consider that ROP was written after. the adversaries of ROP aren't criticizing Tolkien's Galadriel but amazon's. This is where I might be wrong, but a point I've heard is that Galadriel is a powerful elven mage, Yes, but not a warlord. And the fact that she's portrayed as a badass warlord w/ a sword in the show might qualify her character, not only as a Mary Sue, but also a complete opposition to Tolkien's lore and an expression of disrespect for the source material, which is a perfectly understandable reason to hate the show imo. Also I'm not completely sure what Mary Sue means and I don't feel like looking it up anyways good video overall I just felt like adding a counterpoint to balance out the conversation. Also also, don't condemn reaction channels for "dragging Tolkien's name through the dirt" simply to cash in an easy check, while defending multi billion dollar tech giant amazon's continuous expansion in economic and cultural influence through any means necissary, what the hell was that about? this is not about anyone's expectations for the show not being met. no one wanted the show to be made in the first place because it was so obviously a completely cynical cash cow for the richest man in the world from the very start. Yes, the fandom was determined to hate ROP from day one, as anyone who genuinely respects Tolkien's literary works should be. you cannot honestly claim that independant solo creators (whatever their views) are more harmful than the soulless machine of the capitalist elite's infinite greed.

[@tolkien-trash]

I don’t think I was defending Amazon at any point in this one, and I am definitely generalizing about the fandom’s reaction to the show-the minority is loud, that’s what came across my timeline, that’s how I saw the situation developing, I did some more research when I had time and this is what stuck out to me. The scope of this video doesn’t cover every single reaction to and review of the show, and for that I can only apologize. My point about the character Galadriel pre-dating the term Mary-Sue is glib for sure! I think leaning on a trope like “Mary-Sue” as a catch-all for “I didn’t like this woman character but I’m having a hard time parsing out why” is also pretty shallow. Sorry for only dipping a toe in that particular puddle. Thanks for presenting your counterpoint here! And thank you for watching, I appreciate it.

[@tolkien-trash]

Also: I said in the first bit of the video that we see this for what it is, right? They’re going to make it whether we want it or not, right? We can’t trust giant corporations not to fuck with the stuff we love, right? That’s where my expectations were set from the get, and it’s on me if I didn’t make that sufficiently clear.

[@brormand_spyt]

well that's a very civilized and rational reaction to the corporate exploitation of your favourite author. I'm personally more inclined towards small scale industrial sabotage in these situations. it's the bit around 26:30 that strikes me as a little too defensive about the same company that fires minimum wage employees over the slightest inconvenience with zero warning or hesitation. you might get the idea that I don't like them very much lol. but yeah you did make that point in the very beginning and I see what you're saying but it is more than an hour since I clicked the video now, so I don't think it's very fair to expect me to remember that still. I did thoroughly enjoy the analysis of character names towards the end of the video. that's a very fascinating depth of detail I've never seen commented on before and a great demonstration of how ROP completely shit the bed in the writing stage.

[@Hinatachan360]

You are absolutely correct about Galadriel. She's supposed to be a powerful, ethereal, mysterious Elven mage. In the books she never wore armor nor wielded a sword.

[@redbeard3498]

Thank you for this! I asked about it in a comment on one of your other videos. Very glad I watched. You see, I didn't like RoP but in saying "I didn't like RoP" felt like I'd be associated with the 'reactionary reactions'. To make a terrible analogy, I didn't like the EU either. But the people who pushed Brexit didn't like the EU because they were racists and nationalists, while what I didn't like about the EU/ECM was that it allowed German bankers to force austerity on southern Europe. Yuck. Very much here for your dissection of Eleanor Brandyfoot. While I'm a fan, I will never have that detailed a grasp of LotR and it's lovely to appreciate your command of Tolkien's work. Thanks. Recommending your channel to friends.

[@tolkien-trash]

My pleasure, truly! This fandom does tend to be very black-and-white in its evaluation of other fans, of adaptations, and of commentary-you’re either “with us” or “against us,” as you can see from some of the comments on this very video, so I totally understand your hesitancy to outright say “I didn’t like Rings of Power” in fear of being lumped in with the more reactionary folks. There is always, always room for nuance, especially in this text and in this fandom. Thank you so much for watching and for your kind recommendations, I can’t express how much I appreciate it!

[@Stevie-L-n8g]

I seriously thought it was a spoof of Tolkien. A black female (fat)dwarf? Galadriel's mini snaryl face? Lol at that, and still makes me laugh. Did you ever see that vid of when they played the vid of ROP where Galadriel was hit by that pyroclastic wave and the whole bar audience erupted in celebration!!

[@quixero556]

I think the issue im having with people who like lord of the rings (which is unexpected) is that it seems to attract a lot of fascists (like you said there's bigots but come on there just fascists) ive literally seen groups of naz*s and z*onists celebrate lord of the rings, even the italian fascist prime minister and her government celebrated Tolkien. I suppose the conservative nature and celebration of European mythology and Catholicism in Tolkien's writing does attract these people, im just going to go back to my bubble and enjoy lord of the rings isolated from "fandoms" i never enjoyed these types of communities as they can be a cesspool of fascist especially right now with what's happening in Palestine and the ongoing genocide and anti-resistance rhetoric from the west i cannot in good faith be around such fascist bigots. Only comrades can be trusted, anyway I enjoy fantasy but right now in the year 2023 a lot of fascists seem to celebrate it for the wrong reasons.. i will also add booktube has been very poor in addressing whats happening in Palestine and that lead me to unfollow so many people on youtube since they celebrated z*onist authors like brandon sanderson cheers.

[@DamilolaAyodele-bt5ur]

I hope your bubble is safe enough and I hope you don't live in the west that you hate so much. There was so many buzz words that I presently thing you're not literate enough to express yourself properly. Be safe from the "western fa**ists, z*onists and n**is"

[@TheJacob232]

Cut out Galadriel and 'Sauron' and i agree Season 1 was great. The Discovery of Mithril and the political back n forth there was great, Chain Gang was ok

[@tolkien-trash]

I don’t think it was great but it is definitely tv you can watch! Thanks for watching ¨̮

[@catlinejade3672]

This is the comment pre-watching the video. I really tried to like rings of power but i just couldnt. 😭 I couldnt even finish it. I was just so bored? The dialogue really bothered me for some reason. Idk might be because im a WriTeR but tilted dialogue is a pet peeve. I dont even care so much about lore (heck i didn't finish the silmarillion because i was bored) Tldr im easily bored 😂

[@catlinejade3672]

Post watching comment: brilliant. Iconic. Best Tolkien content on this damn platform.

[@catlinejade3672]

To expand a bit on my rop criticism. The writing and characterization is so... Not good. I read a bit of interviews with the show runners and saw their IMDb pages. They have little to no actual hands on writing experience. Iirc they only worked on one star trek movie (not a tv show). That surprise was done by JJ Abrams . He supposedly put on a "good word for them" (nepotism vibes). The 2 bros managed to convince the grandson of Tolkien they were the appropriate show runners by "quoting elvish at them" which is like such a superficial.... View of the work.

[@tolkien-trash]

Thank you so much for watching! And yeah, there is plenty about the writers that sucks badly and I didn’t get into it because I kinda assume anything under Amazon’s banner is not going to be great (Good Omens being the one exception imo; I am not accepting feedback at this time), but overall the superficial approach they took feels cowardly. Like they’re intimidated by the text they’re adapting so they don’t try to get too deep with it. Damned if they do and damned if they don’t with this fandom, but I don’t say that out of pity-it’s almost like PJ’s big swings were so new at the time that he got away with them, and RoP making the same moves has the fandom going “uh uh uh, we have wised up, we have been talking about orcs and menus for 20 years, you cannot fool us.” I also wanted to mention that the dialogue in RoP fully had me calling my optometrist because I thought my eyes were going to get stuck in the back of my head. And again-they could have read the book and gotten a feel for how folks talk to each other in Middle-Earth, but they don’t appear to have done that. So we get Bronwyn saying stuff like “the earth is riven with fissures” and we’re just supposed to be okay with it. I’m just glad it makes me laugh more than it makes me want to confront the eternal void. Thank you again ¨̮

[@Froggy_Shade]

I hateeee that they named her Elanor too. However the worst thing in the show for me is the forced connection between the Silmarils, elves' fading, Mithril, and the Rings....i dont know what on earth they were thinking of with that. However worse than anything the show produced is the insane amount of bigotry from a decent part of the fandom. It nearly makes me ashamed to even be in any part of the fandom. Nearly.

[@tolkien-trash]

When they put the hunk of Mithril next to the leaf and all the bad gunk disappeared? That took me OUT, I was screaming with laughter. So absurd. The fucking “insert sword to activate Mount Doom” bit got me too. There’s phoning it in, and then there’s throwing the phone out the window.

[@Froggy_Shade]

@@tolkien-trash agreed, the sword was also a standout for terrible things. A shame too, it was a cool sword. At least the visuals weren't horrible for the show, I suppose.

[@WankiTank]

as someone who isn't so super deep into the lord of the rings but always liked the book and the movies, I really enjoyed ROP. I do have my bones to pick with Galadriel's depiction but Hollywood has their issues with strong, female characters so often it's not a ROP issue for me specifically and fuck sauron is so hot.

[@BlazingOwnager]

Did it bother you at all that the plot was made of stupid?

[@69SalterStreet]

Galadriel acts like a villain. That’s all I really need to say about how shit the show was.

[@jonas-os9hd]

I can save you, i really can.

[@catlinejade3672]

Im here for shitting on the hobbit movies

[@catlinejade3672]

Also for shitting on the racists

[@tolkien-trash]

not you live-commenting your watch-through, I’m obsessed

[@Sizzllllnn]

This video panders harder than the show. Couldn’t finish the video

[@philzilla2k]

Sure defending and accusing a lot for not caring.

[@leifericksson7875]

Unsubscribed after this video.

[@jaketuschak1508]

Cringe