RESPECT THE LORE: Tolkien and Queer Digital Fandom

[@annafdd]

I acknowledge that this isn’t the point of your video, but Tolkien-the-man was friends with WH Auden and Mary Renault. Whom he proposed for the freaking NOBEL. Given the laws in the UK in his lifetime, Tolkien could not have been explicit about homoeroticism even had he wanted to. But he could have expressed his horror and disgust for homosexuality, which he didn’t do.

[@tolkien-trash]

Thank you for this valuable addition! You’re right, and Tolkien’s quiet allyship doesn’t go unnoticed by me and many other queer fans of Middle-Earth-I especially appreciate that there are so many levels of engagement on this particular topic, from Tolkien’s personal relationships with his queer contemporaries to his stated intent to the content of the texts themselves. There’s a lot here, thanks for digging in with me-hoping to find the scope for this and related discussions in future videos!

[@XtoDoubt25]

The idea Tolkien regarded sodomy as anything other than a sin that cries out to Heaven for vengeance is laughable. Tolkien was a die-hard Catholic who declared The Lord of the Rings was “a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision" and took a hardline stance against many things put forth in the Second Vatican Council, a Council which greatly liberalized the Church. Even today the Church still holds sodomy to be one of the sins which cries out to heaven for vengeance. Tolkien almost certainly held a similar view given his loyalty to Holy Mother Church and her traditions. Mr. Tolkien, if he has made it to the Beatific Vision, is almost certainly praying for those in serious sin who love his work. I do not doubt this because he was a good man who'd want such people to repent and accept Christ.

[@gowanmetal]

There were gay Catholics in his time and there are now. There’s no reason to put words in his mouth that he didn’t say. He was friends with queer people, he didn’t condemn them in public or private letters. That’s historical fact. Whatever he thought of specific sex acts is lost to time and not your business or mine, but I imagine if his consciousness exists in an afterlife state, he’s likely too busy praying for redemption from the sins of Catholics who murdered Native children en mass and dumped them in mass graves, or who tortured and killed my people, or who abused children because their repressive beliefs twisted their sexuality into something monstrous. I’m sure he’s busy worried about sins we actually know he condemned in life- the destruction of nature and the suffering of innocents.

[@herickbrandelero2293]

​ @gowanmetal Is a sin for a Catholic to be friends with queer people? to Speak to them and be kind? No, but that doesnt mean that the Church tolerate any sexual activited outside marriage, Tolkien was a devout Catholic, he might have be friends with Queer folk, good for him, but thats doesn't mean he agrees with what they did or endorse their practices

[@Parasolhyena]

Fantastic video!!! I really loved your essay, I learned many things I had not known before.

[@TakeTheStep10]

As a cis gay woman, I personally don’t interpret Frodo and Sam’s relationship as romantic. But that is for me, because I do not view romance as the ultimate manifestation of love. I see what people read and I won’t argue with their experience of such an incredible work. My experience is Frodo and Sam having a beautiful and truly loving relationship and a bond that perhaps it actually doesn’t matter whether it was romance or not. True friendship and respect and reverence for another person is something I honestly find lacking in literature and media. I see in Frodo and Sam how I feel about a few of my friends. My friends represent my journey, not my lovers.

[@tolkien-trash]

Thank you for sharing this reading-I personally read Frodo and Sam in a similar way, somewhere in the space between purely platonic and wholly romantic. As you say, it doesn’t really matter; love is love, and we’ve got a ring to destroy. Part of what I love about this text is how validating it is for different shades of experience and interpretation. I love that you and I are here with our it-doesn’t-matter and loads of other folks are here with their oh-but-it-does. It’s a big book, room for us all. Thanks for watching ¨̮

[@MarxAldehyde]

Firstly: Great video! Hope to see more from you. Secondly: Having watched this, I may just have to read the books again after realizing my own bisexuality. Thirdly: What a fit!

[@robertwilliams4682]

Love the Bach in the background

[@DMU555]

Great video. My impression from my own research is that the best way to be faithful to Tolkien is to not treat him as an authority because that's the opposite of what he wanted, and you make the best case for that I've seen yet. As a lifelong Tolkien fan and straight guy, let me just affirm for anyone with a similar background to mine that you can find diverse readings of your beloved texts to be beautiful and meaningful even if not all of them speak to you the same way. They don't replace your preferred readings, they coexist with them. It only proves the richness of the work that it can speak in so many different ways to so many different people.

[@SoulGameStudio]

Why do yall think Frodo left instead of going back to live next to Sam and Rosie...

[@geraltvonriva5977]

Because of the Nazgul wound that never healed and the ring toke something from him

[@blessedjosephat1181]

How you interpret fiction matters. The more popular an interpretation becomes, the more the message of the original work becomes blurred and misshapened. This can be seen in the depiction of Denathor in the PJ adaptations (which robbed him of all nuance) and has coloured his interpretation ever since. Do I think Tolkien intended for homosexuals to be excluded from reading his books, from enjoying them, or being inspired by the themes he explored? No, I do not. Do I think he intended Frodo and Sam to be a symbol of queerdom? Or Eowyn as a Strong Independent Woman Who Doesn't Need a Man? No, because both these retroactive interpretations are products of the world today. Tolkien doesn't condemn Paganism explicitly in the LoTR trilogy to my knowledge. That doesn't mean he was ok, as a Catholic, with worshipping Odin, Zeus, etc. The absence of condemnation shouldn't be taken as commendation. A man cannot comment on all things, and LotR seems an odd place to talk about it. We all search for something to relate to, to see ourselves in, but frankly, the continuous efforts to "queer-ify" something that was almost certainly never queer in the first place, is both incredibly desperate and pathetic.

[@tolkien-trash]

I’m struggling to understand how queer people reading and enjoying LotR in fandom spaces on the internet somehow becomes “queerifying” (the word you may be looking for is “queering”) the original text? I did not say that Tolkien intended for his characters to be read as gay; I did say that his intent is complicated when it comes to this story, as he purposefully distanced himself from it and I therefore think invoking him when reading and interpreting LotR is misguided. There is plenty of space for queer interpretation here, just as there is plenty of space for religious or allegorical interpretation-even if I may disagree with those interpretations, I will never deny the space for them. Overall I would love to get away from fans gatekeeping this text from one another, as the book is so incredible and there is so much space for different readers to find and see themselves in it. I am never not going to celebrate folks finding themselves in Middle-Earth, regardless of what day it is or how they identify. As I said in this video, I do not think Tolkien was using LotR to “comment” on anything. He was writing a fantasy story. That’s how I choose to read it. Insisting that this text is rigid and that it’s impossible for different people to find themselves in it because Tolkien said so, or didn’t say so, is reductive and a major disservice to the work. Either way, I appreciate you watching and commenting. I do think it’s a testament to this work that so many of us from so many backgrounds and walks of life connect with this text and continue to do so decades down the line. Thanks.

[@richardkern112]

LifeProTip: You can shorten this conversation by asking at the outset if someone believes that there can EVER be a wrong way to read a text. If you think there can never be a wrong way for someone to imbue meaning in a text, it's probably best to not bother butting heads with people who think there is such thing as an invalid reading.

[@tolkien-trash]

Sure! But the idea here is to explore different ways of reading and how there is more than one valid interpretation of this particular text, not necessarily to label said ways of reading as “right” or “wrong.” I’m bothering because I care to. Thanks for watching!

[@richardkern112]

@@tolkien-trash of course, I'm not saying there's no point in making this video. I just like to remind people (as a headbutt'er myself) that sometimes you gotta know if the person you're talking to even shares enough priors to have a fruitful conversation with.

[@tolkien-trash]

@@richardkern112 certainly, and in this case I’m sure I’m rolling a big rock up a big hill forever when I ask readers to consider the space in this text for different shades of interpretative possibility. Compels me, though. Cheers ¨̮

[@richardkern112]

One must imagine@@tolkien-trash happy ;)

[@linsi9135]

Oh god this is so good! I love how u use the memes to explain the theory better (i have a very hard time reading theory). I personally like to read frodo/sam as the greatest platonic pure male friendship ever to exist but also as lovers 🤷‍♀️ I also wonder if the "tolkien was a christian so lotr has christian values" are the same people that want to separate the author and the work when it comes to jk rowling?

[@notthecarfullestgirl]

What a fantastic first video, I can't wait for more essays from you! I sent this to my friends before I even finished watching yesterday and plan to rewatch already. :)

[@herickbrandelero2293]

Nobody among the "trads fans" are saying that the christians themes are allegorical, the story isn't a sermon or anything like The Chronicles of Narnia but the framing of the story is Christian, thats what Tolkien tell us: The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like “religion,” to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism. However that is very clumsily put, and sounds more self-important than I feel. For as a matter of fact, I have consciously planned very little; and should chiefly be grateful for having been brought up (since I was eight) in a Faith that has nourished me and taught me all the little that I know.

[@tolkien-trash]

I am begging you to read the context around this particular letter. It was written in the 50s to a reverend, Father Robert Murray. Tolkien was almost certainly emphasizing and highlighting the religious aspects of his work in order to more directly appeal to the recipient of his letter. This is one singular example among many other examples where Tolkien mentions that LotR is not, in fact, a Christian story-I mention several of these examples in this video. Many “trad fans” do indeed use this letter as justification to read Tolkien’s work as religious allegory, and they are free to do so. Different folks read this text in different ways, and Tolkien’s own attitude toward his work changed and evolved throughout his life. That’s what I’m getting at in this video, not that anyone who reads LotR as a Christian work is fundamentally wrong or bad for doing so.

[@herickbrandelero2293]

​@@tolkien-trash you say he is emphasizing certain aspects but in is letter he says it is "fundamentally religious" And that exactely what I'm talking about that the fraiming of the story is a christian one. You don't have to read as a christian allegory and I certainly don't read that way, in fact I don't even know what is the allegory you claim that the "trad fans" see. But there are many christian images and Christlike characters in the story (never a one-to-one of course). Tolkien didn't wrote a christian story in the sense of the cringe christian movies like left Behind or God is not dead. but it is the soil that the story grow out of

[@tolkien-trash]

And in other letters he says “Middle-Earth was not a Christian world,” almost like his relationship to the text evolved and changed over time, just as his readers’ relationships with the text can evolve and grow and change over time. I included several examples of screenshots of “trad fans” insisting that LotR is indeed a Christian allegory in this video, so that’s where that claim comes from-from my observations of this interpretative trend in digital fandom spaces. I am not denying the Christian imagery or symbolism or framing of the text. I literally say in this video that Tolkien was a man of faith and he remained devoted to his faith throughout his life; it was a huge and very important part of who he was and how he saw himself. It would be silly to think his faith would have literally no influence on his work, but I personally choose to read Lord of the Rings wholly separate and apart from that religious framing. Tolkien made it very easy for me to do so, and that’s part of why I like this text. Thank you for watching and commenting, I appreciate you sharing your perspective.

[@herickbrandelero2293]

​@@tolkien-trash Thanks for responding to me I would like to see the full context but as a Christian maybe we would interpreted the phrase "Middle-Earth was not a Christian World" differently then a non-christian person.

[@roxanneoliver7105]

This rules. Here for it all dang day. Can't wait to see your next video drop!

[@the.ultimate.treehugger]

Thank you for this video! I´m so glad, that you uploaded it and it really made me smile. You did a good research with all the letters you had to read for that. Much respect for that and for staying calm with an emotional topic like this

[@balmerttv]

That was incredible

[@Purple_Lilith]

I love this essay.

[@charlygestern6556]

I am from germany and I had to laugh at how you pronounced that guy „Woolfgang“ hihihi but it’s okay I enjoyed the video thank youuu

[@tolkien-trash]

I had fun with it, glad you did too ¨̮

[@charlygestern6556]

Yey! I watched a couple other videos of you too and really enjoyed them so I subscribed. :3

[@gskok10]

I laughed, I learned, I looooved it! Great vid, can’t wait 4 more

[@undercurrent32]

Wonderful work. I reread lotr this fall and showed my husband the parts where frodo and sam are so beautiful and tender with one another in ithilien and cirith ungol. I also often think about the movies making of when Ian McKellen asks Wood and Astin to incorporate those details into their acting. Those always get me teary eyed. This essay did too!

[@neilslorance6786]

This was amazing! Can't wait to see more! From the KZbin tortoise guy.

[@Lincoln_Bio]

Damn that was awesome, the algorithm knows my jam

[@isaacstovell867]

hands-down best video essay I've ever seen about not just Tolkien's intended legacy but the power & nature of fandom in itself. keep making dope shit (personally I've always read Bilbo as quasi-canonically aro/ace... like, what, he gets to 111 years old with no wife or kids? or regrets on this front? seems perfectly happy? okay cool mate. I mean he could also be a closeted gay guy but I have a hard time imagining hobbit homophobia)

[@tolkien-trash]

Thank you so much, I really appreciate you watching! More dope shit to come dude Also: I also always thought Bilbo was ace! “Confirmed bachelor” can mean more than one thing in the Shire and he adopted his “confirmed bachelor” cousin to really drive his point home. That’s sass of a different sort and we love him for it.

[@isaacstovell867]

@@tolkien-trash completely, Bilbo is an ambiguous queer icon! btw - I know you're only on your third vid but set up a Patreon or similiar. I wanna support exactly this kind of work

[@HFeyn]

Reading Maedhros and Fingon as a romantic relationship between battle-brothers is a totally fair interpretation and in line with Tolkien's inspirations from western literature. It's not like THE foundational work of the western canon features a homosexual romance between two warriors on the battlefield, one of them a red-haired hero of divine lineage ...wait.

[@blessedjosephat1181]

Reminder that Homer never states that they are gay, and in fact the text only ever characterises them as friends.

[@lancewalker2595]

I take issue with the sexual interpretation of Frodo and Sam's relationship not because I object to homosexual relationships, I take issue with it because it implies that two men cannot be in an emotionally intimate, authentic, and vulnerable relationship with one other without being sexually attracted to one another. Good male relationships in pop-culture are quite a rarity, and the relationship between Frodo and Sam is a standout expression of constructive masculine identity and male relationships unburdened by superficial stereotypes that represent genuine male relationships as anathema to heterosexual men. Frodo and Sam don't need to be gay to be committed to one other, it simply isn't reasonable to interpret their relationship as anything but one shared between two friends, actual friends, whose friendship is characterized by an entirely platonic love between two heterosexual male characters. As a man who has participated in many Gindr hook-ups, I can tell you with confidence that a sexual relationship with another man is hardly contingent upon the presence of emotional intimacy; to be blunt, I have been "with" many a man, none of whom I would consider to be my friends, in fact I scarcely remember their names and I don't expect that any of them remember mine either.

[@tolkien-trash]

Your interpretation is valid so long as you don’t interfere with another reader’s ability to enjoy this work based on their own interpretation. It is also plausible to read FrodoSam as gay; interpretative possibilities are not mutually exclusive. Any reading that interprets Frodo and Sam as gay and in love doesn’t prevent you from interpreting them as very close platonic friends. My issue is with fans who actively try to exclude other fans from enjoying this work by bringing Tolkien into conversations where he did not want to be involved. Congrats on all the sex, your credentials are very impressive.

[@tolkien-trash]

A cute edit to your original comment there, thank you. Reading them as gay is, in fact, very reasonable-you do not have to, nobody is forcing you to, and I appreciate that you enjoy this text with that platonic love in mind. That’s lovely, it really is, and you’re entitled to your valid interpretation. I would also suggest that the entire Fellowship presents a constructive version of masculinity and love “unburdened” by sexuality. Those men all love each other a lot and it rules. As an avid sex-haver yourself, surely you can appreciate that sex is fun and it’s fun to read Frodo and Sam as gay if that’s what you’re into. That’s all. If you’re genuinely interested in other mainstream representations of constructive masculinity and close emotional relationships among and between heterosexual men, I highly recommend Master and Commander.

[@lancewalker2595]

@@tolkien-trash I would say it's actually not possible for me to interfere with another reader's ability to enjoy the work and maintain their own interpretation of it, my critique of a "queer interpretation" of the Tolkien legendarium as superficial and contrived reductionism does not, and could not, present a threat to anyone whose "queer interpretation" is reflective of their authentic subjective experience of Tolkien's art. Interpretive possibilities are not mutually exclusive because they are not ideological currency, they are subjective impressions experienced solely by the individual who actively engages with the art; the liberty of those who interpret the relationship between Frodo and Sam as homoerotic is not subject to scrutiny by "conservatives" who attempt to deny it to them, that liberty is intrinsic to the individual experiencing the art work; to whatever extent someone feels threatened by the repudiation of their interpretation by someone else's interpretation, it's because they have alienated that liberty and externalized the authenticity of their experience of art to the domain of ideology and propaganda... they have effectively objectified their own subjective experience. I appreciate the word of congrats, though to be honest the acquisition of sex as a gay man is hardly a challenge of sufficient difficulty to warrant praise. I really appreciate the discourse you're generating, this subject has become quite toxic online as I'm sure you're well aware, I respect your good faith approach to the subject, it's definitely refreshing; though I expect I will find myself in disagreement with some of your takes, I look forward to hearing more from you in the future!

[@tolkien-trash]

@@lancewalker2595 Thank you, Lance. I've also grown tired of the toxicity in the fandom in recent years, so this is an attempt among many to get back to what we all really like about Tolkien, which is, in my onion, the pleasure of immersing oneself in Middle-Earth. While I can't say I disagree with what you've said here, I do know that fandom is going to fandom and people are going to externalize, share, and indeed possibly objectify their reading experience when they're excited about it. They're at liberty to do so, and I'm at liberty to take loads of screenshots of it as evidence of subversive interpretation in mainstream fandom. I find the trad fan impulse to shit on other fans troubling precisely because trad fans are objectifying Tolkien and their own interpretation in order to push an agenda-they feel threatened by subversive readings, and so they respond with threats. As Iser says in the cited text, “…“interpretation” [is] threatened, as it were, by the presence of other possibilities of interpretation.” I'm looking forward to firing up the discourse generator again soon, and I appreciate you weighing in here. Thank you for watching!

[@lancewalker2595]

@@tolkien-trash I agree, there is an ever growing tendency to be reactionary without regard for the particular nuances within subjects that have become battle grounds in the culture war. Many of the trad Tolkien fans have become just as philistine in their treatment of Tolkien as those who co-opt Tolkien as a means to further ideological and/or political interests. It's ironic to me that the two culturally dominate positions on the subject of Tolkien (i.e. traditional dogmatists vs progressive dogmatists) share a fundamentally identical concept of art, they are both thoroughly philistine in their understanding of what art is and what purpose it serves; this philistinism just so happens to be the principle distinction and main area of disagreement between J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis. The self-proclaimed defenders of Tolkien seem to have mistaken Tolkien's legacy for that of Lewis, a man whose explicit purpose as an author was to proselytize for Christianity. Tolkien was an artist, not an evangelical; the dislike Tolkien had of Lewis's overtly (and transparently) allegorical works of fiction are very well documented, and yet so many so-called Tolkien purists seem possessed by the illusion that "The Lord of the Rings" is principally comparable to "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe". The philosophical differences between Tolkien and Lewis is a fascinating subject, and (in my opinion) is relevant to this discourse at a fundamental level; if more people were introduced to the contention between Tolkien and Lewis, I believe much of the toxicity on this subject could be ameliorated.

[@k8inscotland349]

10/10! can't wait to see more

[@marcusteach5676]

This was an amazing video. Please keep making these. I wish you nothing but luck.

[@srr5v]

Excellent! Learned a lot about Tolkein and much else (by inference); thank you for the video. Writing here: Tolkein's Hobbits, which he approximates to an idealized English folk - maybe they exist better if placed in different landscape, without all the baggage Tolkein purists apply. Maybe even in a (nominally and superficially (superficial in the technical sense)) egalatarian and demophilic culture. Look at this, and what do you think when you see them? They have the superficial attributes of being tree friendly, happy, chill, british looking [sic], humble. No greatness here :) kzbin.info/www/bejne/pHvUn5x7nMSHqtE

[@srr5v]

ed.: I didn't write "white" because I don't believe in it. I would have written light-skinned, but that wouldn't match what I understand of hobbits in Tolkein's vision. I think one of them is an American citizen of unknown extraction, but what the hell! Lucy Liu has been a samurai ;)

[@danielstride198]

Excellent video, and I agree fully, but I think you also needed to go after that bugbear about "The Lord of the Rings is a fundamentally Catholic work" (which, of course, was in a Letter to a Priest, and "fundamentally" in this context does not mean what certain online nutters think it means).

[@tolkien-trash]

Thank you for watching and for dropping this comment! Much obliged. That letter was in this paper initially but I cut it for length-I’m saving it for another video where I’ll dig into more of Tolkien’s letters and how they show that he was a normal, fickle dude who changed his mind about his work often and changed his words about his work depending on who he was writing or speaking to-almost like the guy “fundamentally” understood how to help the largest number of people relate to his work in a way that makes sense to them so they could enjoy it 😉 I love to hear that you want to see this, because I want to do it-and I will. Thank you again!

[@jalejablonsky2396]

IU for one enjoyed this video and I'm sorry you have to deal with nonsense both on social media and the comment section. Speaking as someone who enjoys Lord of the Rings even as a kid I always saw their relationship as more than friendship. I know that's weird to say but the dialogue and moments just make it feel romantic a lot of the time and very tender. To say there can't be a queer text to the work is limited in scope and less interesting if not included. I can see the relationship as both a friendship and loving one. It should not be treated with disgust. Tolkien was all about having fun with his text even back with his pen pals as any creator will tell you is the most fun they've had. Fiction should be fun first and foremost and looking at Lord of the Rings from a queer lens adds to it.

[@t3tsuyaguy1]

Gandalf has yet to show me his pointy hat trick.

[@TK-nu6tu]

I love this and everything you have to say! Keep making videos!!

[@annafdd]

The fandom needs more thoughtful content on KZbin! Mire of this pleas!

[@MegaVH5150]

love it!!

[@jickboi308]

While I don’t read any of the characters as queer, I can absolutely see why people can and do. Most people don’t talk like that with friends. Some people probably do if they’re very close but most of the time, they’re definitely not super close friends

[@lancewalker2595]

I take issue with the sexual interpretation of Frodo and Sam's relationship not because I object to homosexual relationships, I take issue with it because it implies that two men cannot be in an emotionally intimate, authentic, and vulnerable relationship with one other without being sexually attracted to one another. Good male relationships in pop-culture are quite a rarity, and the relationship between Frodo and Sam is a standout expression of constructive masculine identity and male relationships unburdened by superficial stereotypes that represent genuine male relationships as anathema to heterosexual men. Frodo and Sam don't need to be gay to be committed to one other, it simply isn't reasonable to interpret their relationship as anything but one shared between two friends, actual friends, whose friendship is characterized by an entirely platonic love between two heterosexual male characters. As a man who has participated in many Gindr hook-ups, I can tell you with confidence that a sexual relationship with another man is hardly contingent upon the presence of emotional intimacy; to be blunt, I have been fucked by many a man, none of whom I would consider to be my friends, in fact I scarcely remember their names and I don't expect that any of them remember mine either.

[@XtoDoubt25]

They talk like that because they are the closest two men can be. Frodo and Sam have gone through Hell together and put their life in the other hands more times than I can count. However this cannot be understood in our modern culture which is both oversexualized and undersocialized. Thus, many people, especially those who are sexually confused, will read homosexual undertones in. These people have never had a relationship with anyone as close as the relationship many characters in the Lord of the Rings had. Frankly, that's just sad. These people are having fundamentally lonely and unfulfilled lives.

[@DIRKMCGURDIGAN]

This. All of it.

[@tomdagone1844]

Yeah 🔥

[@ryanthegaylinguist]

masterpiece

[@kents.2866]

Queer fans didn't disrespect Tolkien Lore, Amazon did.

[@XtoDoubt25]

Why not both?

[@kyletowers9662]

for the algorithm

[@Stret173]

здрасте, здрасте, щас посмотрим

[@PleaseNThankYou]

Balderdash. I've made to the 2 minute mark, and I just can't handle it.

[@tolkien-trash]

thanks for watching in good faith !

[@ZephyrOptional]

Try again and you might learn something important. Go to the 17 min mark and understand how you shouldn’t use Tolkien’s Catholicism to constrain his legendarium. Can you say that Catholicism constrained Tolkien’s understanding of suicide? Remember, Aragon himself gave up his own ghost, and likely didn’t go to hell for it. That, and the Pope (and church) are coming around around on this issue, seeing that the inhumanity pushed on the queer community is actually a greater crime against god than than any (perceived) abomination like being gay, or eating shell fish, or wearing wool & cotton at the same time, or coveting your neighbors wife, or siting in your wife’s chair if she’s menstruating. Tolkien is for everyone that loves life. I believe the most critical point he wanted to invoke was that different and quarreling peoples have to get together to defeat the real evil in our world, the inhuman industrialization of life and war.

[@PleaseNThankYou]

@ZephyrOptional And I have another problem with your ridiculous assumption that Aragorn having "...given up his ghost..." insinuates suicide. How utterly ignorant, if indeed that is your suggestion, that Aragorn killed himself. Get a dictionary or something. Giving up your ghost simply means that you die. It doesn't mean you hasten it nor prevent it. Aragorn was not only old for a Man in those days, but even for one blessed with decended Numenorean blood. Am I to understand that you to suggest he took his own life??? Please write back and tell me I'm wrong. Please.

[@PleaseNThankYou]

@ZephyrOptional I don't know what happened to my original reply to your...reply. you have caused me to endure 3 more minutes of an already horrendous channel. I have reviewed your suggested 17 minute mark topic and find it to be ignorant as well. Tolkiens world isn't gay...sorry...it isn't full of suicidal references...sorry...and there is no "other" which Tolkien cleverly hides from the rest of us... sorry. This channel's view, at least in this arena, is like watching cloud formations. One minute, you see a face or a boat, then it changes into a giant heart with a nose... it can be anything your weird mind wants it to be. But it's not any of those things, is it? BTW, you should avoid Google and wiki for your biblical references as you lazily disregard EVERYTHING the New Testiment has to say about food and sex and whatever else. Why are "others" so concerned with sex and sexuality? Must you " find" yourself in everything you read or every institution you encounter? If you read a baseball history and don't find a cross dressing umpire, do you cry? Of course not. That would be ridiculous. So why must you find yourself in Middle Earth. Maybe it wasn't meant for there to be any "others" there. Maybe it was just what Tolkien wrote about. Read his Letters. Read anything but this video is full of hate for the fandom, conceit of her own understandings about reality, and deceit of the text as a whole. Cloud watching.

[@jessestanley1690]

Sorry no gay romance in Tolkien’s work lol you are putting your own experience into it

[@faeryngully]

Clearly didnt watch the video, because thats not what was said in it.