RIP Reverse Seoi Nage - Highlights & Thoughts

[@realitycheckwithmarktripp7974]

With all due respect, anyone with eyes watching this video can see UKE getting slammed on his head many times. Comparing banning leg grabs to this is simply misuse of analogy. We live in a world where law suits prevail. I suspect most people have never taken an in depth coaching class and studied the legal issues with coaching and refereeing. I agree banning leg grabs was silly, and I was in the room when a cardiologist with ZERO understanding or experience in judo, lectured us how choking could dislodge plaque in the arteries and cause a stroke. Thankfully most of us shot holes in his argument quickly. BUT, there were people in the room buying into it and actually banned chokes in there programs. But this one I agree with, you can’t throw people on their head.

[@Zetzitsen]

I see almost all of them rolling over the shoulder.

[@JudoHighlights2015]

The fact of the matter is a lot of throws have your head hitting the mat

[@realitycheckwithmarktripp7974]

@@JudoHighlights2015 in point of fact, and the real fact of the matter, is even in MMA you can’t throw someone on their head. I’ve listened to “tough guys” wanting to ignore safety for years. About 30 years ago I said “we all have to go to work on Monday.” Do whatever the hell you want. But when a student gets hurt, and the lawyers come after you, you can’t say you weren’t told.

[@JudoHighlights2015]

@@realitycheckwithmarktripp7974 Rose Numajunas was thrown on her head. It’s not illegal in MMA. Not sure what country you live in, but when someone joins a judo class, they take full responsibility for their actions. Here in Japan our dojo requires us to have some kind of insurance. As I said in the video, if a technique is deemed dangerous, they should ban it at the lower levels. Where I train even makikomi is frowned upon, but people do reverse seoi nage all the time

[@realitycheckwithmarktripp7974]

@@JudoHighlights2015 First, I trained Dan Severn for UFC V. Look at the T shirts sometime. Second, the rules of MMA clearly state you can’t spike a person on their head. Finally, I’ve been a certified coach in judo right here in the US for over 40 years. I ran a school with over 100 students for about 10 years. As I said, you believe whatever you want. But you can’t say you weren’t told.

[@martinman3073]

"Guess who's back"

[@ick5353]

If the reason the IJF are banning Reverse Seoi Nage is to "reduce injuries", then they have completely lost sight of the essence and meaning of Judo. Like you said, Judo is a full-contact sport but more importantly, it's a martial art. There are moves like Juji gatame that literally are there to cause pain and in real world application, cause injury. The IJF are babying the sport too much.

[@JudoHighlights2015]

Yeah we forget all the arm bars and choking people unconscious. Reverse seoi nage cause hardly any problems

[@bigb00tyslayer20]

Agree about juji. If someone break your arm no more judo for you for next 6 months

[@guest0046]

@@bigb00tyslayer20 you got time to tap from an armbar. You dont have time to tap from a reverse seio nage when you land head first. Or your arm gets stuck and cant let go of the sleeves. You should advocate strikes to the back of the head, kicking downed opponent, kicking the groin as well then for MMA. Or fish hooking, grabbing the groin and oilchecks in judo. It would change the sport

[@philippemorotti4575]

I agree with you that there needs to be more things allowed on a higher level, leg grabbing as well. What the IJF says is that young people tend to copy what they see, and that's when they get injured. Ultimately, the responsibility lays with the instructors, to teach safety and to monitor things on a local level.

[@대구돈까스형님오리뽀]

representative technic of korean judoka

[@JudoHighlights2015]

I feel sorry for the Koreans!

[@liukang85]

probably why they banned it

[@brinkerlandsen-sele2941]

I agree with you about preparing judokas for the ban, I think IJF just want more attractive clean judo for the audience, I don’t like the technique but it shouldn’t be banned

[@brinkerlandsen-sele2941]

Sorry for bad grammar, English isn’t my first Language, and I’m dyslexic

[@raphaelhudson]

Leg grabs didn’t cause injuries . They were just trying to stop the east Europeans from winning . Sode has to be the most dangerous technique , along with drop seoi and Soto makikomi. They haven’t touched them . I really think a rival organisation needs to form with better rules

[@sokarra]

You are against it cause you arent practising sode, drop seoi and makikomi... If you spent years developing sode and seoi... Your opinion would be different

[@raphaelhudson]

​@@sokarra You did not understand my post. I wasn't suggesting that makikomi or sode should be banned just because they are objectively dangerous because of their mechanism. Sode especially often prevents uke from break falling and results in a lot of face plants. Makikomi causes a huge number of shoulder injuries - I know I had my left shoulder separated this way. That said, the injury risk is proportionate to the degree of weight mismatch, the really serious injuries often happen in open weight competitions where tori is much larger than uke. Although I saw some nasty sode/makikomi injuries in the recent olympics where uke's arm was getting trapped. This doesn't mean I do not do sode or makikomi, I love these throws. But I try to do them in a safe way, while at the high level people are so focused on winning they don't appear to care about uke's safety at all. But that is the nature of high level competition, people who want sustainable injury free practice should avoid randori or competing with people training for the international scene.

[@davidkim1714]

I agree. The reason they banned this technique is because korean judokas are really good at reverse seoi nage. Japan n Korea is really rival at Judo.

[@sokarra]

@@raphaelhudson sorry, my mistake i misunderstood

[@ippontube]

full approval! People who practicing judo since so many years (me 38 years) can't understand such sudden rule changes. I never saw any injuries caused by this technique. As I understand the rule change, the last one isn't banned - it's just throwing on the wrong side and not a reverse seoi-nage against the opponents arm....

[@JudoHighlights2015]

So the definition of a reverse seoi nage is to turn inwards against someone’s elbow?

[@ippontube]

@@JudoHighlights2015 that's how it seems, and in the ijf video with Neil Adams at approx 15 min only this kind of reverse seoi nage are given! Maybe you can talk about the other strange and non necessary rule change ragarding counter techniques against the opponents throwing direction? it seems to me difficult to decide and fully against the idea of judo :-(

[@JudoHighlights2015]

@@ippontube yeah I’ll make another video about the rules. Don’t quite understand a lot of them tbh. There was a weird grip breaking rule too

[@ippontube]

@@JudoHighlights2015 anticipating good judo videos! :-) Good news regarding the grip breaking rule is that it's allowed again to break a grib with both hands for immediately attack your opponent!

[@Chadi]

I have a strong feeling one arm sode is next

[@sokarra]

I hope it isn't, they are destroying sport. Sode is one of rare throws that can be thrown with one hand and it is great for defending overhead grip

[@kusotare9559]

I, too, would like to know the IJF's rationale for banning the reverse seoinage. One rationale I did hear is that when the reverse seoinage is applied properly, uke WILL land on his head and shoulders, which is unlike just about any other technique in the gokyo. That means that even if uke wanted to 'give in' to the throw and just take a good ukemi to avoid injury, he is completely at tori's mercy: if the throw is executed correctly, uke gets slammed. With other techniques, if you take a good fall you live to play another day, but proper and perfect application of reverse seoinage could result in concussion through no fault of uke's, and that's not jita kyoei, is it? As for banning it at lower levels of competition but allowing it at the international (or "pro" levels), that's not the IJF's style.

[@JudoHighlights2015]

I see where you’re coming from. It’s definitely something I’ve never seen done in terms of Uchi Komi or nage Komi. People just kind of learn how to do it, but that makes teaching it very hard. It doesn’t have to be at the IJF level. For example you can’t take a high color grip on kids here in Japan, and no armbars or chokes on non-black belts. These general guidelines are good I think

[@kusotare9559]

@@JudoHighlights2015 The IJF could do itself a lot of good if they would just explain the decision - unless explaining it would expose hypocrisy or an unfair bias that went into it. And I also agree that national federations could have taken this step on age or rank-based criteria, as with double knee drop seoinage, shimewaza and kansetsuwaza in many competitions in the United States.

[@raphaelhudson]

I don’t see that that is true, at least not necessarily so. There are a number of different techniques people are calling “reverse seoi nage”. One is sort of makikomi like action based off lapel grip to the rear , some people call this “Korean seoi nage”. I do not see how this is dangerous at all, it is a pretty light throw or often doesn’t score at all, but it can certainly be done landing on the back and shoulder and not the head . The other is really like normal drop seoi but turning in the wrong way . This one seems much more risky in terms of arm injuries , but probably no more risky in terms of face plants than normal drop seoi or drop sode , drop kata guruma . That said shintaro higashi has a number of videos showing the throw mechanism for both versions in a very safe and controlled way that is probably easier to practice uchi komi than the other drop techniques . And uke does not land on the head or get slammed . The concern I have is that if tori fails to get ukes arm wrapped up in the drop seoi one, it’s basically an arm bar. But how much that plays out I don’t know .. fat man Soto makikomi where they lock up the shoulder and fall over is much worse in terms of probability of injury . Double sleeve sode makes break falling impossible . Drop seoi in the otoshi sense is a horrible fall and in a comp resisting means frequent face plants . Uchi mata with full commitment often means both uke and tori landing on their head …

[@samuelho190]

The last part of the video is not reverse seoi nage. In my opinion, reverse seoi nage when the throw is executed, the knee faces the opposite direction once it is completed. The knee still faces the same direction after the throw in the video. To me, it looks like a normal seoi nage with two hands holding on the same side.

[@JudoHighlights2015]

Guess it should be called an inverted seoi nage because he rotates in the opposite direction. But yeah I agree, not reverse seoi nage. I want to know the IJF definition for this banned technique…

[@davidkim1714]

IJF don't like how korean judokas are good at reverse seoi nage.

[@jpark8608]

great technic but why banned it ????

[@taltezy2941]

They are taking the excitement out of the throws in judo!! This is getting stupid!!

[@JudoHighlights2015]

Yeah reverse seoi nage was one of the most exciting throws

[@anix8047]

you make a good (and slightly terrifying) point about sode possibly being the next one to go ...

[@simonbaudry6034]

I did research at school about injuries in judo and apparently the number of injuries increased since they banned leg grab I don't know why they do that judo is already one of the safiest sport that exist

[@JudoHighlights2015]

Where’d you get your information?

[@JudoHighlights2015]

@Константин Рыжевский from someone on a Reddit post. Could be all lies. I’ve never seen anyone injured from reverse seoi nage

[@fiderdvis4714]

Leg grab was not banned for safety reason leg grab was banned because judokas started to fight allot negatively since they wanted to grab legs and also because the posture of the judokas where looking similar to a wrestler and since IOC said they already have wrestling in the Olympics and that judo should not be relatable to wrestling from the audience perspective they stopped the leg grab. Btw on the sode comment being banned they have already regulated the technique for instance if you do the sode like Hashimoto does it with one hand but during the throw you secure the arm with you free hand can cause injury so e belief it is hansoku.

[@crimewatcherii9309]

I think you've made some good points man, there should be a difference between amateur level tournaments and international tournaments. Like have different leagues with more or less techniques based on how high level it is, idk just a thought

[@JudoHighlights2015]

Exactly

[@bartofilms]

Did I delete my comment last night or did you? The topic of safety in Judo is a hot one for me. Seen too many things...

[@JudoHighlights2015]

Would never delete a comment!

[@bartofilms]

@@JudoHighlights2015 To sum it up without drama, I believe that any technique which drops uke onto his head or neck uncontrolled, or with uke's arms bound up such that standard ukemi-like breakfall or roll isn't possible for him, should be scruitinized and possibly banned, esp. where a pattern of serious injuries may have occurred. Kansetsu Waza, Neck Cranks, Lock-Downs, double knee drop seioi nage ( for Ikyu and lower ranks, and under 18 age groups ). I have witnessed serious injuries resulting from them. The leg grab rule wasn't for safety. I don't think. Morote Gari was too easily used to force a newaza situation and it wasn't exciting to watch. Not to say that the more dangerous Judo techniques don't have a place in training, they certainly do, especially for military and police, but in recreational or even big Intl tournaments, those techniques may need to be restricted, imho. There is a throw in the Go Kyu for every possible situation. Why not master all of them before inventing our own/new techniques? Cheers.

[@abelitomerino]

I don't think that the last throw is a reverse seoi but...how to be sure? Nobody ever gave a clear definition for the reverse seoi and IJF didn't give ANY details on their decisions.

[@liukang85]

anything that the Koreans use, probably. lol

[@cosmosXverse]

This is the one of most frequent throws I execute... Having 70% win rate with it...... Haaaaah😓

[@MrPwang08]

Hot take! I'm going to say they're doing it to give korea a disadvantage.

[@liukang85]

not a hot take at all

[@wsl3119]

Good point, this will cause a great disadvantage to a lot of elite athletes like the Koreans. Becoming an Olympic sport is one of the best and worse those to happen to judo. And yes that should still be a reverse seoi and not seoi otoshi. You have grips on both collars.

[@liukang85]

most likely the point of it

[@huwangtunghuwerr4490]

After 50 years the Judo match will be on online with video game, because this is the only safest way.

[@rahadt904]

I did it by instinct 5 times. How tf are they gonna ban a whole fucking pivot and method of grip

[@JudoHighlights2015]

I actually wonder what the criteria for reverse seoi nage is

[@flexazer6768]

Cho Gu Ham from Korea - 100 kg what he should to do it was his main throw

[@tuguldurotgondorj6542]

japanese just banning the techniques that they cant deal with, sad day for korean and mongolian judo

[@ahfoo1775]

Its not japanese.. its international commitee and japanese can deal with it. Look at the recent world and olympic tournament. Japanese doing great

[@JudoHighlights2015]

Japanese judoka use reverse seoi nage than most. Probably Koreans #1 and then Japanese

[@tuguldurotgondorj6542]

@@JudoHighlights2015 yeah i agree w you, but the technique is not a japanese style it is a korean style, basically what i am trying to say is removal of this precious technique will harm japanese judo but just a little bit, on the other hand korean judo will be harmed significantly, mongolian judo too. Japanese, Koreans, Mongolians all use this technique, these nations have their own styles of judo and reverse seoi nage is a major part of korean judo and also a part of mongolian judo. However, i would not include it in japanese style of judo because we all know that japanese judo is more classic judo compared to the others

[@liukang85]

​@@ahfoo1775lol international my ass... you know which country has the biggest influence

[@ahfoo1775]

@@liukang85 clearly u dont know.... Only 1 japanese in the commitee.... Typical korean

[@трудивера]

Please Make video abaut Rasul Bokiev .

[@barba5209]

like how basically only An Ba-ul was demonstrating in the video

[@jaisonlongcop3858]

it' judo politics man! japanese politics. I thinks that is reverse entry and thrown overhead not reverse thrown seoi nage

[@sokarra]

It think that it isnt reverse seoi, but it seems dangerous for arm

[@hegsergei]

It came back

[@posho9308]

I think it's like "Kani Basami" at the beginning it was a cool take-down but with perfection It through out the years became into an ACL breaker, that's the IJF wants to avoid in the future with Reverse Seoi...

[@danyloantoniuk902]

Ok than, let's ban a Ko soto gake. Why? Because my ACL was torn when a guy attempted to do it in a wrong way during a training session. Or let's ban an O Soto that somehow caused an injury of at least 2 guys that I fought with for the 10 years I've been doing Sambo and Judo. Kani basami was banned for being too dangerous and I think that may be a reason for that. It is probably one of the most dangerous throws that exists in grappling sports. And it is the easiets throw to mess up somebodys knees with. But reverse seoi?? Damn, I'm not sure about it. Banning leggrabs was 100% silly, no doubt

[@iamabean]

Next they will ban grabbing the back

[@NickKano11]

I don’t care for Reverse Seoi as a competitor or spectator. But Judo shouldn’t be based around my personal preferences. It’s perfectly valid Judo, and the sport comes with a degree of risk. Unless we’re talking Kani Bassami rates of injury, we just need to accept the potential of getting hurt.

[@maxkho00]

Unbanned now, thank God. Btw the last throw is obviously a reverse seoi-nage, I'm not sure where the ambiguity is.

[@noamfriedrich7596]

4:14 yes

[@paulkim9165]

It’s shame

[@thomass.4007]

My Tokui waza, training it and developed my system around it for 10 years. I dont know how to continue judo. All this time for nothing.

[@JudoHighlights2015]

Exactly!

[@ochiru7489]

i personally consider reverse seoi pretty safe compared to other techniques, koshi guruma, osoto gari, uchi mata, tai otoshi and tani otoshi are in my opinion way more dangerous. i feel as if the ijf just does not like new creative techniques and prefers " pretty " judo like uchi mata.

[@JudoHighlights2015]

I have a theory that they don’t like it because it’s not in the official list of techniques

[@wolverinekut]

👍💯

[@tc47101]

Rất hay 😄👍

[@hectorpailacura5414]

"queremos que el judo sea vistoso", el primero estaria muy decepcionado con lo que se transformo el judo

[@supklc3110]

In this case, let's ban chokeholds and arm locks. And then simply prohibit judo

[@aplacetobewithmythoughts7428]

Come train jiu jitsu and you can hit all the reverse seo nagi's you want. If it's no gi you can even go into asha garami and leg locks

[@jeff6133]

We want the old judo back. The first one. The rest is bullshit

[@user-sg8kq7ii3y]

If the samurai from the 1500's could go into the future, and if they observed Jigoro Kano developing judo, they would have said, "WHAT is this watered down garbage you are creating!!?" My point? Change is inevitable, and past generations will always feel that the current generation has "watered down" things and made them worse. People who grew up in the 1980's will tell you that the NFL football we have today is a "watered down", "soft" version compared to what we had in the 80's. People who grew up in the 50's and 60's will tell you that the NFL of the 80's was "watered down" and "soft" because players in the 80's wore large shoulder pads, helmets, mouthpieces, and elbow pads. It's all relative. In 50 years, the teenagers of today will be telling their grandkids how "old school" life in 2022 America was so hardcore and difficult because, "We only had ipads, iphone 13, Netflix, and KZbin. We didn't have all of the comforts that you young kids have today!" So just RELAX, and realize that change is change. It is what it is.

[@PLAY-xg3rl]

Korean seoi is dead...

[@mapcec593]

Completely unjustified that they have banned this technique.

[@JudoHighlights2015]

I agree

[@yyysk5337]

こんなの背負投げじゃねぇよ。日本より。

[@JudoHighlights2015]

動画に出る選手の二人は、永山と佐々木選手