Rise of Arsenal #1-2 - Atop the Fourth Wall

[@carlrood4457]

As someone who has lost his daughter, I can tell you that in those first hours, having other people around is annoying at best. People want to help, but can't. They end up saying well meaning, but hurtful things or they do nothing. Sometimes being alone with your child's body is what you need.

[@ryanangelastro504]

I’m really sorry.

[@vaggos2003]

I'm sorry to hear about that. Your daughter is in a far better place now.

[@baliyae]

My condolences, sir. I lost family members myself, so I empathize with you.

[@harrietr.5073]

Let 'em grief? Nah, time to get those sympathy points.

[@shadowspider9]

Actually Linkara losing your string arm wound have a profound effect on your shooting ability. Because to shoot right requires both hands to be in sync with each other. The mechanical arm is likely not lining up properly with his bow hand, thus throwing off his aim. It's also why he can still throw with perfect aim. Because throwing only requires coordination of one arm.

[@JaelinBezel]

So how would i shoot accurately using one arm and my teeth?

[@Tareltonlives]

Yes, but he could also learn how to work around that, adjusting his grip and coordination. It's be basically re-learning that ability, but given how important that is to him, I'm sure Roy could just work around it.

[@romdan7136]

Is that why Green Arrow in Dark Knight Returns wasn't utter garbage in helping Bruce with his fight?

[@catrionapritchard4679]

'You abandoned your family' - her husband divorced her and legally prevented her from being able to see her kid. Someone was an asshole in that situation, but it sure as hell wasn't Donna.

[@thetruewisegamer]

it was the writer duh for doing that

[@catrionapritchard4679]

@@thetruewisegamer This is true from a Doylist perspective. But even from a Watsonian one, the blame is still not on Donna.

[@samflood5631]

It was Terry Long for abandoning her while taking her son away. What did Donna see in Terry again.

[@DeathofInk]

Killing off Lian was the one of the WORST ideas the DC writers have ever come up with. The knowledge that she doesn't exist in the new continuity of the comics is just as bad.

[@jakebryant3445]

They brought her back in Convergence

[@SuperWolsey]

+Jake Bryant (The Rouge Owl) But sadly remains lost unless the Rebirth saga has Mia, Bart, Cassie, & Connor turning up with her like how Wally did to Barry and the other Titans (minus Vic, Gar, Raven, and Starfire)

[@jackcarlson4358]

Hmmm, recent Green Arrow comics show that Roy and Cheshire had a relationship at some point. Perhaps Lian exists once again, albeit without Roy's knowledge for now? Could be another thing Rebirth has fixed.

[@ricardoparente5824]

Hope that, if they do, they don't bring Lian back as some sort of trained ninja-assassin-thief-evil-evil kid, I'll admit, as a Marvel fan, Rebirth has been very good (so far), but it only takes one bad call... and we'll have ourselves another GAY for JUSTICE - errr, I mean, CRY for JUSTICE.

[@jackcarlson4358]

Eh, they already kind of have that in the new Red Arrow, Emi. And Robin. So I don't think so. But it's possible.

[@williamhowe1]

Well you can't spell Arsenal without the first 4 letters.

[@Igarappappa]

So true. High five for that clever word-play man. *highfive*

[@williamhowe1]

Igarappappa And I'm not from England.

[@Igarappappa]

williamhowe1 Didn't assume. XD

[@williamhowe1]

Igarappappa I know just letting folks know.

[@GOFFBITZH666]

They might be talking about *this* specific Roy...

[@foxman105]

You'd be surprised Linkara how easy it is to walk out of a hospital. There is little security, because nobody thinks that a person with serious injury will run away and yes, you can just pull out an IV easily. You undo the tape and pull the needle out. I know because I accidentally ran away after I had an accident. I woke up in a hospital after hitting my head hard and being unconscious for several hours. Still not completely awake I just wandered out of the hospital and walked 5 kilometres bare footed back to my house because I wanted to sleep in my own bed instead of the hospital one. Good news is I did manage to get back to my house and my bed.

[@PrayerWarrior4]

foxman105 not all hospitals...depends on how they are designed and their budget...I worked at three of them and are all different...two had too much security while the third barely had any at all...

[@bizijr]

What's the bad news?

[@CreditR01]

That's one heck of a story. O_O

[@posey9573]

Lian dying was just there to make Roy go back on drugs, eh? They missed out on so many moments involving paraplegic Roy and his little girl. Heck, they could have done the heroine plot if they wanted to anyway.

[@DeathofInk]

+Posey Roy was awesome as a loving supportive Father! Far better then being an "anti-villain" who does drugs! >:(

[@ilopominecrafter]

Posey let’s do hypothetical like when jason todd was possibly slated to die originally (which he did) and say lian survives albeit barely and roy is still as he is: why not have a storyline having roy dealing with havin to get him and his daughter to recover while tryin not to do hero work since it would interfere with recovering and such. Its just a barebones and not very good, sure but it is far better than what is done here.

[@redjirachi1]

Roy gets a hook prosthetic and puts on a eyepatch to play pirate with Lian

[@dnmstarsi]

@@redjirachi1 I would've minded that. Arsenal playing pirate with his daughter, maybe Ollie can join in on his spare time.

[@tysondennis1016]

He called himself “Speedy.” Of course he does drugs!

[@MageKnight404]

Still love the expression Black Canary has at 13:40 after Roy snaps at her; basically both a "Whoa..." face and a "Bitch you did *not* just say that in front of me." face. Priceless.

[@TheAxeLordOfFire]

A huge fan of your videos, dude. :)

[@tamariomartin9080]

I was too expecting her to kick his ass hard-core. Donna too. He keeps asking for it.

[@FruityGroovy]

I think when he said the "pain killers don't stop the pain," he meant the emotional pain, not physical. That's just me, though

[@bthsr7113]

Seeing how Lian changed Roy and Chesire in Young Justice Season 2 (haven't seen season 3 yet, so no spoilers), really highlights to me how she helped her parents as characters and people. Roy was in a tailspin and Cheshire, while nowhere near as murderous as in the comic, was still an assassin who seemed to enjoy her work, or at least took a lot of pride in it. She was the light of their lives, and I can see both completely losing it after her death.

[@LaineMann]

Yeah. We need a comic version of the Young Justice TV series that keeps running if season 5 never happens. Most of what I love about DC is in that show.

[@diamondinthesky4771]

@@LaineMann I do not like their version of Superboy, though. I prefer the SUperboy from Reign of the Supermen. But that version is never going to be seen ever again...

[@Comperative-e8b]

​@@diamondinthesky4771I mean we saw the OG Conner in the Reign of Supermen and will see him again in My adventures with superman.

[@SammEater]

Linkara's channeling the Joker in the intro was amazing. Rise of Arsenal is one hell of a comedy.

[@joshuaingobo1559]

9:57 To all the Green Arrow fans, Joshua Williamson’s first issue of Green Arrow (spoilers by the way) made sure that Lian (with her memories restored) would see Roy Harper again! So, the wait is over!

[@Djinsin]

Gargoyles Reference: “I’ve been denied everything; EVEN MY REVEEEEENGE!!!!”

[@DeathofInk]

Seriously, what is it with writers and thinking Superheros can't have happy marriages and families?!!? I loved Lian, she was a wonderful addition to the DCU. It's because of moronic decisions like this that I have zero respect for the writing staff of DC.

[@DeathofInk]

laz kar They do seem to think broody themes are more marketable these days. Which irritates me to no end.

[@DeathofInk]

laz kar Indeed, Dark Knight was a GREAT Superhero film. Most terrifying live action Joker in years. It's just frustrating that so many writers think the "alone and brooding" theme is the only way to write superheros in this day and age.

[@shadowspider9]

+laz kar I think it's partly to do with comic companies just not getting their audience. Comic companies have a rather narrow scope believing that their audience is ONLY teenage boys. As such they cater their comics to what they think teenage boys want to read and can relate to. Thus no marriages, no families, lots of relationship problems, and lot's and lots of angst.

[@shadowspider9]

+laz kar Oh I agree. Hell i read Spider-man as a teen during JMS's run and I liked MJ. Largely i think because I'd been introduced to the character by the animated series. So I'd seen Peter grow into a married adult. And ya, you probably did. Though I think the Marvel movies might be changing that. I've heard a lot of kids, around 5-10, say Captain America is their favorite superhero.

[@shadowspider9]

laz kar One of my favorite moments was Dr. Doom dropping his change in the till before going through the metal detector at the airport. That was gold. I never thought much on the 'mystic spider' concept but at least JMS never flat out said Peter was destined to be Spider-man. I always took it that there was a mystic spider legacy, but that Peter became part of it by accident. Though it's been a while since i read those issues. I was also really moved by his 9/11 issue. That issue was so touching.

[@RenjiMaili]

Cry for Justice can be summed up as "Guys, I have a horrible idea!". Rise of Arsenal on the other hand can be summed up with "I have a brilliant idea. Now let's go out of our way to ruin it with shitty writing, bad art and the inability to consistently portray our antagonist OR to create a sense of sympathy for Roy... You see, instead of doing what a good writer would do we'll aim to turn him into a complete cunt.".

[@jeremyneill227]

So, his flesh was necrotic and that's why they have trouble with the replacement? why do they not amputate the necrotic flesh?I mean they should do that anyway. WTF?

[@GeneralJerrard101]

... so Roy's arm is weird because nanites on the wound... can't they fix the problems by amputating more of his arm?

[@SuperChochip]

Shut up! Your valid logic has no place here in Rise of Arsenal!

[@anthonyrodriguez1119]

Coec_15324 to be fair they are probably trying to make it so that he has enough arm to work cybernetic's(probably shouldn't be there first concern but whatever)

[@MakeVarahHappen]

I got the impression is was spreading so first they needed to contain it to one area, which they did. Dr. Midnight talks about stabilizing the nanites, which told me they found a way to prevent it from spreading anymore.

[@GeneralJerrard101]

They can still cut off more until it gets to his armpit.

[@MakeVarahHappen]

That would be needlessly overboard.

[@davidspring4003]

ok, I would DEFINITELY read a comic about Lian travelling through time and/or reincarnating as different adorable children throughout history.

[@islamroks11]

+David Spring So a little girl version of Doctor Who? Somewhat? Shut up and take my money!

[@davidspring4003]

islamroks11 more like a little girl version of that story they did with Batman when everyone thought he was dead. But your idea is also good.

[@Cybermat47]

+islamroks11 you know, if Big Finish made an audio series about a little Time Lady, they would make it work. For those who don't know what Big Finish is, just listen to 'Spare Parts'. It only costs a few dollars from the official website, and in my opinion, it's the best 'Doctor Who' story ever. It's the origin story of the original Mondasian Cybermen, and was later partially adapted into the origin story of the new Cybermen, 'Rise of the Cybermen'/'Age of Steel'. It's a dark, haunting story that shows the true horror of the Cybermen, and the tragedy of their existence. Thanks to the fact that it's aimed at an adult audience, it shows you the Cybermen as they were always meant to be seen.

[@MetalMadness_00]

David Spring Bruce should’ve stayed dead

[@curleyqreviews9793]

I was think more Quantum Leap.

[@Dreigonix]

DC hates happiness, good writing, and YOU. In fact, I’m pretty sure this is all just part of the Anti-Life Equation.

[@Tareltonlives]

I've come to that conclusion a while ago

[@tysondennis1016]

Darkseid Is gonna buy some comics

[@samflood5631]

I just hope that DC doesn’t ruin Kite Man x Golden Glider in season 2 of his own show.

[@Igarappappa]

Also Cheshire's got a WEIRD sense of maternity. Since when she was forced into the Secret Six team, she was blackmailed with the threat of harm to Lian. Her way of getting out of it? Seducing Catman to get her pregnant and betraying the group, figuring her new child could be a 'replacement' for Lian. Thankfully she got shot for her trouble and lost THAT child to Catman who put him with an adopted family so he'd have a normal (and safe) life. Cause I don't want to imagine ANY poor kid being raised by her.

[@paulman34340]

And then to make her an even worser mother then Talia al Ghul. When they Retcon Lian death, Jade was nice enough to leave her daughter with amnesia in an orphanage.....IN GOTHAM FUCKING CITY! Now they seem to be turning Lian into a version of her mother now! Seriously it's sad abit what they did to Cheshire/Jade where she had some honorable traits, now she's an arrogant kung fu girl who has such a chronic backstabbing disorder that villains trust her about as much as they trust the Joker, she blew up a country with a Nuke, pretty much assuring EVERYONE Good and Bad are out for her blood with no bright plan for how she benefited from it afterwards and oh yes assuring her Iron Butt Monkey status anytime Gail Simone gets her hands on her (Gail has pretty much stated after the nuke, Cheshire/Jade is now in the irredeemable bin Joker has strangely dodged! But that's likely because he was built by design as what he is! While Jade is now a character that deserves to be made a fool of and get hurt ALOT!), I mean Jade was stupid enough to go after AQUAMAN thinking he was the easiest Justice League member to take down.....what makes this dumber is she fights him over WATER, and doesn't take into mind his enhanced strength, endurance and the fact he's a skilled fighter! Arthur/Orin promptly drowns her into unconsciousness PISSED he got underestimated AGAIN (Oh and Jade brought up the stupid Superfriends "Doesn't he just talk to fish" meme, not surprised Arthur is pissed off about that. Dude gets no respect from idiots who don't do their research on him. Jade becomes even more stupid when your reminded other villains DO their research on Aquaman, putting her on the list of idiot villains who go at him assuming he can only "talk to fish!") I mean lets not forget when Roy broke up with her, she had Liam simply to blackmail and hurt Roy for the breakup with the knowledge he has a daughter out there, but will likely never see her (Not a surprise Liam is fucking ashamed of her as her mother, even in her "single digit" age! Meaning she's aware of her mother's shitty actions!). Says something when Catman realized he and Jade were TERRIBLE parental figures and gave his son up so he'd have a better life (and doing to her what she originally tried to do to Roy, except while she did it maliciously, Catman did it for the kid's sake and never planned to hurt Cheshire with the knowledge her kids out of reach or blackmail! Seriously why is it that Women will have a kid to emotionally blackmail, but the Man will almost even if a POS give up the kid for a better life away from the "Life!" in fiction! I'm referring to Villains in this regard!) I have to say Young Justice the show did Jade/Cheshire better then the comics where they seem to not know what to do with her or whatever she's a damaged individual or just a bitch (Or Gail Simone Iron Butt Monkey's her!), not being an overall shitty person! Feels like her shitter actions/shitty parental behavior are pushed on her father Sportsmaster and she's more "complicated!" out of fairness in Young Justice she does have abit more traits of her original appearance in the comic where she was far more honorable and tend to avoid those who are not her main target being causalities. But then I think they're doing the same to Deathstroke as well, retconning and changing alot of his shitter actions, especially with Terra 1 back in the ORIGINAL Judas Contract and his relationship with his kids specifically Rose/Ravanger! Likely cause it makes it hard to keep him in "gray" territory like the other Assassins such as Deadshot! By Gray, I mean their still remorseless killers! But they do what their paid for, targets can be just as much evil folk as they go after good folk, and have standards! Basically redeemable things so they can stay in Anti-Hero/Anti-Villain Territory! Instead of full blown villain!

[@LaineMann]

And that’s STILL a better story than this shit.

[@Cdr2002]

There is no “thankfully” before the death of a child

[@Igarappappa]

@@Cdr2002 Their kid didn't die in this story. Also turned out the threat was a lie to manipulate them. But the end result is the same, Cheshire should not be in charge of a child.

[@Cdr2002]

@@Igarappappa DC can you write competent parents thanks 💀

[@aros0018]

Maybe it was explained in the Fall of Green Arrow story, but why would Star City have Green Arrow arrested for the murder of Prometheus? I get that the taking of a life is illegal and immoral, but the guy basically bombed the city and cost hundreds if not thousands of people their lives. He basically committed an act of terrorism and very likely was going to do it again. So why is Green Arrow being punished for stopping the guy after what he did?

[@alucardyoici]

the judge had a hard on for pinning green arrow and Green Arrow willingly turned himself in. Plus it's not like he stopped Prometheus everything already happened Green Arrow just killed him out of revenge when he could have simply captured him again. You're not helping anyone by killing a villain after you let him go in exchange of bringing the cities back you just make it clear for the new terrorist that they must never listen to the heroes

[@iron1349]

Yeah, but this is comic books, he'd just escape from prison.

[@Sewblon]

Green Arrow was Acquitted in Fall of Green Arrow. But then the judge banished him from Star City, which judges really don't have the authority to do in the event of a not guilty verdict. So it doesn't make sense. But for completely different reasons.

[@battlion507]

@@Sewblon And who the hell was that Judge? Was he a character in the Green Arrow comics/mythos? Cuz having a character just be an arse with no interesting backstory or having any "character" is good. It's just a force narrative to drive things along with no reason to reflect upon: like walking over a plot hole and ignoring it forever.

[@Sewblon]

@@battlion507 I don't know the Green Arrow Mythos well enough to say. But even if he was a character in the Mythos. He still had no authority to do what he did. Its still forced.

[@seanblack1320]

Actually the bow thing with the new arm would potentially cause the aim to be off. To be fair there isn't much of a comparison since replacement limbs aren't advanced enough to accurately replicate archery like that but any arm being off could throw off aim since both in some way can effect aim (though you are right in that the bow hand has more to do with aiming). Mostly due to how it's released that could move the arrow in a direction you don't want it to go. It just needs practice like with any prostetic.

[@Mochitachi70]

About the advanced tecnology thing, it's a very strong point in Oracle's story. She refused to have her spinal cord repaired or a cool weaponized wheelchair until the tecnology is avalible for everybody, not just the heroes. That's why Gail Simone and everybody else on this planet probably facepalmed to the last episode of the Birds of Prey TV series.

[@samflood5631]

What happened in the final episode of Birds of Prey?

[@jakebryant3445]

Oh that's Grayson as Batman. That explains why he's sad usually batman doesn't show much emotion

[@gennybaratta2460]

Jake Bryant also explains the “fist of morality”

[@ryahmib2452]

even bruce will be sad if a child die. remember Jason Todd....yep

[@RabblesTheBinx]

@@ryahmib2452 Bruce doesn't get sad, he gets angry.

[@LupineShadowOmega]

@@RabblesTheBinx That's dumb. Bruce is sad a lot. If anything its his default emotion when he gets flanderized from being a kind father figure of many children, a pretty good friend, and one of the smartest detectives in the world. But yeah, being a random hot head works too I guess.

[@amberbarbera2001]

I didn't know Lian very well, I only know her from Young Justice, and Cry for justice, nor much of Roy, but I still felt like I had just been stabbed in the chest when they had her killer off for no apparent reason other than for a surprise kill.

[@JaelinBezel]

"Surprise Kill" I now have this wonderful image of the Grim Reaper crashing through the window yelling "SURPRISE, BITCH!"

[@legomaniac213]

If the new arm can't connect to the tissue damaged by the nanite things, couldn't they just cut away the damaged tissue to get to the healthier part of his arm?

[@ilovehertodeath]

I mean, he already lost the arm, what's a little snip here and there?

[@Decembirth]

So they just made Roy angry at women with no explanation? Mocks one for not being able to produce biological children, scolds another for her supposed sex-life, then chokes the nanny! Did he even _want_ a daughter?! This 'Male-Heroes-Can't-Love' trope gets on my nerves. A writer not being able to write a father-daughter or marriage relationship shouldn't be heading the development of said character. If all they know how to work with is lone-men, then assign to that instead!

[@wadeleppien1392]

Not entirely true, considering the nanny was supposed to be there for Lian when she was killed, it's understandable why he was angry at her, what is not understandable is the way he treated the other women, I get that the writers were trying to get across the emotional trauma caused by the loss of both his daughter and his arm, but the writers did not execute it well

[@Decembirth]

I can't describe how this story came off. It is kind of like a 90s hyper masculine character that can't figure out how to deal- considering this story was apparently published five years ago! I can definitely sympathize with a character that lost a loved one, I've read comics like that for years. Heck, I am a fan of Black Manta whose retconned origins still allow room for him to be human, even when he is a murderer. This story seemed like the writer just wanted to complete a task, and that was to get Roy Harper to become Arsenal again as well as be a 'badarse' archer -because no powers etc. Lian and the women in the story were used as tools for plot rather than driving a story and I just don't enjoy that.

[@wadeleppien1392]

Decembirth I agree with your points, this comic along with Cry for Justice shouldn't have been made

[@Igarappappa]

Wade Leppien As Linkara points out there was no conceivable way she could have saved Lian so he's just lashing out.

[@wadeleppien1392]

Igarappappa True, but it's still understandable that Roy would lash out on the person responsible for Lian when it happened, though I feel like if he stopped right there with his anger instead of lashing out against everyone who tried to comfort him, (plus giving it a while before he confronts her again and apologizes) we could take this portrayal of Roy seriously, though it's still a stupid move to kill Lian in the first place

[@OverlyPositiveFanboy]

9:55 Well... that line aged surprisingly well.

[@matehiqu9905]

couldn't they have brought lian back in blackest night? it would surely provoke a powerful emotional reaction, the kind of emotional reaction that the black lanterns were seeking

[@kennethcrist443]

A "Return of Lian" mini-series with Mr. T trading card would hopefully be the best thing since comics began. I miss that little ball of good feeling whenever she appeared in the original timeline.

[@mockingburns3202]

both arms are responsible for aiming and firing a bow, but the new robotic arm could interfear with his firing. He wouldn't be able to feel the string, or the pressure.

[@iamaunicorn1232]

William Stuart His release is probably waaaay off. I had so much trouble with that before i got a trigger release.

[@TheRealGaucelm]

According to the urban dictionary, the term "China cat" is used as a slang for heroin. The entry dates from 2004. But yeah, it still sounds silly and reality is unrealistic.

[@XX-sp3tt]

23:55 I've always been confused my entire life of when to, and when not, engage someone in a situation.

[@rudevoices9204]

"When can we expect the "Return of Lian Harper" miniseries?" Well...the Titans Convergence tie-ins...

[@dnmstarsi]

He brought it up in Blue Skying. Simply put, he partied hard.

[@OverlyPositiveFanboy]

Man, revisiting this review in 2023 is weird, 'cause now Lian Harper and Donna Troy's son are alive again.

[@samflood5631]

Is Terry Long alive too?

[@OverlyPositiveFanboy]

@@samflood5631 Just checked. Probably not. Robert was kidnapped by Granny Goodness (presumably just before the crash), and I feel she was only after the boy. It turned out Granny had also kidnapped Cerdian (Garth and Dolphin's kid) and Mr. Terrific's son. This was all chronicled in Jeremy Adams' final arc on The Flash.

[@samflood5631]

@@OverlyPositiveFanboy So Granny Goodness just saved Robert and not Terry? I guess Terry is the most hated DC Character. But did Granny Goodness unintentionally save Dolphin while saving her daughter Cerdian? And what happened to Mr. Terrific's son?

[@thegoon1024]

"THE PROMETHEIS IS WINDING AGAIN! I AM THE GREETEST! NOW I WILL LEAF FOR NO RAISON!" -"Rise of Arsenal" excerpt

[@dnmstarsi]

Glad to see Fry working for DC Comics.

[@Tareltonlives]

It's like the 90s never ended And what the hell is with Chesire's outfit?

[@TheRealGaucelm]

"It's like the 90s never ended." We wish!

[@clearspira]

***** Yeah, seriously, 80s and 90s comics were the best.

[@garystapleton7984]

well the 90s was a top time

[@Tareltonlives]

I miss a lot of things about the 90s; the comics are not among them.

[@chuckleshelicopterwigwamjo7315]

For DC, they didn't end until Dan DiDio left the company in 2020

[@Dreigonix]

DC is beyond redemption at this point. Also, all I can say to this is: “Why are we still here...? Just to suffer?”

[@battlion507]

DC: YUP! I mean, why would we stop at METAPHORICALLY "Beating a Dead Horse". You love these characters? Don't worry, we'll just get some BOLD, CONTROVERSIAL and EDGEY writers to make the biggest change by being an event... and then getting the Editor in Chief to have the main writer write THEIR STORY instead!

[@Archon3960]

Marvel did screw up a lot lately - _Secret Empire_ comes to mind... They're still better off than DC though.

[@zopilote7]

I had a really weird experience at a local comic shop a few years ago. They were having a couple of writers doing a signing on a random weekday, and JT Krul was going since he lives in the area. He had just finished writing Captain Atom with the New 52, one of the few books I was enjoying with the relaunch (it got cancelled, obviously). I had no idea who the other writer was going to be, but lo and behold it was our old pal Adam Beechen. It was one of the most awkward times I've ever spent in a comic store as I bit my tongue to keep from exploding on the guy who destroyed one of my favorite characters. Not sure why I told this story, but a big fan of your work, Linkara. Keep it up.

[@SuperWolsey]

You should've ripped the fucker apart

[@ryanangelastro504]

@@SuperWolsey who are you talking about?

[@TheGotenza]

Now I'm going to watch arrow... Wait....

[@ilovehertodeath]

That was legitimately funny. Well done.

[@JaelinBezel]

@@ilovehertodeath I don't get it.

[@trevordavis6830]

Cody Hines I believe they killed Roy in the 3rd season before he could have a kid.

[@JaelinBezel]

@@trevordavis6830 ...No they didn't... they faked his death and shipped him off to another city under a new name. We even see Thea visiting him as a mechanic.

[@JaelinBezel]

@@trevordavis6830 Since then he's appeared in Season 4 as a hostage of the Calculator and is slated to return as a regular cast member again in season 7.

[@nicolasgarant9124]

Now that Lian has been returned to life and her and Roy got to reunite. It makes sitting through Rise of Arsenal a much funnier and less depressing experience !

[@carlrood4457]

You'd think Cyborg would have been more sensitive to the whole lost arm/robot prosthetic thing. True, Roy's situation isn't as extreme as his was, but he'd know what that kind of trauma is like and it took him a long time to adjust. In fact, he really didn't start coming to terms with it until he joined the Titans and found a new purpose and friends.

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

"A Bond villain in a stupid hat." So, one of Dr. Kananga's henchmen, then.

[@jessaminehaak8253]

In regards to your comments about his archery, the prosthetic arm could be having trouble moving the fingers correctly. If they clip the arrow by not releasing fast enough as he's letting go, it could throw off the trajectory. I would have thought it would be more likely he wouldn't know its strength and snap the bow/bowstring or something, but it IS technically possible his fine motor skills with it are the culprit.

[@MTdaBlacking]

Honestly, I think Black Canary,Raven, and arguably Donna Troy also seems to have costumes fit for funerals...

[@Morningstar91939]

MTdaBlacking basically, if it’s in black, it’s funeral wear.

[@skyslasher2297]

I mean Dinahs wearing fishnets to a funeral for gods sake.

[@MrGMoney1944]

Would you say he is feeling a Phantom Pain?😛

[@berpipo]

+MrGMoney1944 Spoiler! The twist is: linkara is actually the player!... the watcher i mean... no not that watcher!

[@chaosinc.382]

+MrGMoney1944 You are going to Hell for saying that I am going to hell for laughing at it

[@berpipo]

Chaos inc. It's alright you're already a demon.

[@chaosinc.382]

pipo berber Shit I've been discovered

[@earth9564]

Thats what a phantom pain is, the feeling of pain or other sensations in limbs you no longer have.

[@OmniGundam777]

So I may be a little late, but "nanomite" doesn't necessarily have to be talking about a nanobot. It could be a flesh eating bacteria. Nano just means really small, not that it's a robot.

[@samflood5631]

Well about the location of where Lian Harper died, she wasn’t at Roy’s house, but Oliver Queen’s house instead because Oliver was basically her granddad. So that’s why Roy Harper’s house was intact after the destruction of Star City because it was far away from the city during the explosion.

[@ACrustyCount]

Oh goodie. We're here finally. I often wondered what kind of drugs the creative team was on when they thought of this idea.

[@MrPlayer890]

China Cat. LOTS of it.

[@BoulderPunchPodcast1]

MrPlayer890 Dammit! You beat me to the joke. lol

[@rikowolfin4984]

You know the joke of Arsenals daughter traveling through time and coming back... actually would make sense to happen. Think about it, the bomb that went off wasn't designed to be a bomb but a time teleporter so at the time it goes off she could have been blasted back in time. It might actually be a good read, her trying to get back where she came from and hanging around with older hero's of the past and Universe. And when she comes back you can have Arsenal reform, having to deal with the crappy things he does and trying to get off drugs so he can have his daughter again and be a good parent and maybe even have Cheshire question if leaving her with him. You can actually do a lot with bringing her back but the reboot happened so guess its too late :I

[@CouchSpud91]

This is kind of the reason why Linkara says he DOESN'T want to completely retcon One More Day. There is always the chance to write an amazing story to cancel a piece-of-shit decision made in a previous storyline, it just takes a talented writer and a good idea.

[@CouchSpud91]

And, you know, NO f**king editorial mandates.

[@aros0018]

Exactly. Can you imagine how amazing Spider-Man vs. the forces of Hell would be? One man, using everything at his disposal and calling on allies like Doctor Strange and Doctor Doom and maybe even the deceased Logan and Doc Ock, to fight to darkest forces of evil in order to get back the life and love that was taken from him.

[@CarlSlime]

Have her travel through time and grow up having to fend for herself and become a skilled archer in her own right, taking after her dad until she comes back to the present time. If that happened and she came back older DC would probably just make her and Roy fuck, though. Something garish like that

[@jakearmstrong6993]

Alexander Sigstad All this needs is some semi-clever play off of "One More Day" for the title and it's good to go. In all honesty, this legitimately seems like something that would be big enough to serve as an overblown "event", and even if it does end up underwhelming as those events always do, we still get to see Spider-Man PUNCH THE DEVIL IN THE FACE, so it's still pretty awesome.

[@skyslasher2297]

22:51 I remember reading somewhere that it was retconned that Slade Drugged Rose the same was he did to Cassandra Cain which caused her to end up that way. This was probably introduced to have the character shift make sense but all I see is another reason why Deathstroke makes for a horrible anti hero whenever DC tries to play him as the neutral type. Even The Punisher would never go that far.

[@creativerealms]

While they never should have killed Lian to begin with I always figured it was just a matter of time before she came back. All that was needed was a writer that wanted to unite them and for the story to be accepted. And while it took WAY too long to happen at least it has happened.

[@alexiaNBC]

Here, let me fix the whole Lian Harper death part since DC won't: Lian was never killed during the events of Cry for Justice. The body they thought was her was a clay copy from Clayface (similar to Annie from the New Batman Adventures episode "Growing Pains"). Lian was kidnapped before the destruction by Bane after healing himself so he could train her as his new apprentice (a plan he concocted before being enlisted by Prometheus). He used Clayface to create a substitute to take her place before Clayface did the whole bombing bullshit from Cry from Justice (the clay version being the Lian Roy was talking to before Prometheus attacked him). The doctors were paid off to make her look like a real corpse just in case Palmer checked. The shaking coffin was the clay-Lian trying to escape from her confinement. By making Lian watch her father succumb easily to his drug addiction, he showed how the heroic father she once looked up to easily descended into a degenerate drug crazed villain. He convinces Lian to train under him to become a better person and skilled fighter though that's mostly so she can become this lackey and possible future leader of his organization but chooses not to expose her to the venom saying its because of its addictive qualities like the drugs that Roy Harper is using (though it's actually so she doesn't become stronger than him). She becomes a skilled fighter over the years looking over her father promising to be a better hero than he ever was not knowing of Bane's ambitious intent. THERE! I FIXED THE LIAN HARPER CONTROVERSY AND I'M NOT EVEN A SKILLED WRITER, DC COMICS!

[@shanemont3611]

Literally everything about this is fucking stupid but you do you

[@Cdr2002]

This is still kind of convoluted and mean-spirited imo. Also, Bane actually had a pretty rough childhood, I for one don’t think he’d be so eager to take a child away from her family like he was taken from his. Most villains are people to.

[@digitaltailsmon4096]

I only know about Lian because of your show and even I think it's just heartbreaking to do this to A CHILD. Seriously all the story potential she could have had, hell all the cute or sweet, or even emotional scenes with her and her dad now can't happen. Or just having her around a source of levity. Children characters in fiction show off the best idea of what children are, hope, future, and overall bright optimism. Killing them is wrong and should never be done no matter what you wanna do with them especially if they are a secondary character who is beloved for said reasons.

[@charlesgorman4919]

Personally, Dick Grayson should've stayed as Batman, and Bruce should've retired.

[@shadowspider9]

My thoughts exactly. After 70 years they've done just about everything you can do with Batman. Far better to explore the idea of Batman acting as a retired mentor like in Batman Beyond.

[@joeywaters5559]

Technically speaking, DC didn't bring Lian back in the reboot Linkara mentions. They brought her back in the reboot of that reboot.

[@creativerealms]

Which was less a reboot and more bringing back the previous continuity.

[@ryahmib2452]

good news : pre flashpoint lian harper is alive. In Convergence, she came back to life.

[@o76923]

1. Opiod induced hallucinations are an uncommon side effect but it isn't terribly rare. They're more common if you are taking high doses, have compounding stressors, or are mixing them with uppers. 2. Addicts take pain killers even when "they don't work anymore" because they're addicted to other effects of the opiods and would go into painful-potentially fatal withdrawal. On top of that, it's very common for an addict to say "they don't do anything" when they actually mean "they don't do enough" or "they don't do as much as they used to." It's a much better depiction of opium addiction than I would expect from DC comics, given their track record. I'd almost wager that someone on writing duty was close to someone with it.

[@Greil9]

Rewatching this years later, I don't think it'd be hard to fix Prometheus letting Roy get away. Just have Roy use his one good arm to set off a flashbang, or a smoke grenade. Even just causing some equipment to malfunction and explode or something. Prometheus is temporarily stunned, but in his state Roy can't exactly finish him off so he chooses to flee and warn the others. And once Prometheus regains his fighting ability, Roy has too much of a lead so following him carelessly could risk being caught off-guard, so instead he maintains his position to better defend himself. Maybe even set a few traps for anyone who comes looking for him. Boom, there is a logical explanation to why Roy gets away.

[@Tareltonlives]

I miss a lot of things about the 90s: no war in the Middle East, no crazy domestic terrorists rallying around a would-be dictator, lots of great shows that weren't on cable, the Disney renaissance, Star Wars coming back better than ever, Deep Space 9 The comics are not among them.

[@ya-kiri794]

You wanna know the kicker about that funeral scene...Wally West, The Flash, is there in his costume. In the Black Flash storyline, his wife Linda "died" and he got pissed that her funeral got turned into a media circus and had the focus taken away from it by having the whole superhero community coming in their costumes.

[@EllieGabalus]

Lian returned (for real) in a Convergence tie in.

[@egyptspivey777]

I'm pissed DC didn't bring Lian back in the New 52. All because Lobdell thought it wouldn't make sense since Roy was reverted back to a teenager, like there's no such thing as a teen father.

[@repulser93]

Well to play devil's advocate, one could argue that he didn't want kids to get the idea that becoming a teen dad is cool... but I doubt he's that smart.

[@egyptspivey777]

Adam Sherman With how he wrote Cassie in Teen Titans (routinely sneaking away from her mother to see her boyfriend in a motel) I don't think Lobdell cares about setting a good example for kids.

[@repulser93]

***** Fair enough.

[@FNGLHR]

***** If its any consolation we may actually get to see her come back on Convergence. Although I'm not holding my breath. Point is, the chance to bring Lian back was squandered and you know why? Because DC seriously botched their relaunch. It's only now actually starting to settle down in terms of competent writing and even then there are still plenty of rough patches to go over. It's seriously taking them way too long in my opinion to get the universe back on track. I almost feel like Convergence was chosen as a story idea during the move just because they wanted to feed off nostalgia. Whatever, I get my old universe back for a few months, I'll deal.

[@egyptspivey777]

FNGLHR Well with Lodbell in charge of Roy's character who know how he would have wrote Roy and Lian's relationship. He probably would have made him a deadbeat dad. But yeah I'm looking forward to convergence and the wedding between Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon. Which reminds me has Linkara ever mentioned anything about their relationship and the fact it was ruined due to the New 52?

[@dakotadoyle7573]

When i first saw the start of this episode i thought this comic drove Linkara nuts

[@__-dr5vm]

Actually linkara the arm that releases the arrow is just as important when it comes to aiming in archery. To clarify the release of the arrow is just as important because the release of the arrow needs to be one fast motion. If it's not fast enough or done wrong it can really mess up trajectory.

[@darkknightmage]

When it comes to archery, the body has a specific way of moving when you train a lot with a bow. as such when Roy has the new arm his body doesn't have the same feeling to it as it did before showing that the loss of his arm has more of a reminder to it than a fixing of his abilities. Plus archery in general usually requires a more lean frame and body with more emphasis on the back muscles rather than arm strength.

[@Paladin585]

Not an expert but I have shot a few arrows. You aim with both arms. Admittedly, the forward arm does the most aiming, but tweaking the direction of the arrow will easily throw a shot way off target.

[@kyriss12]

just like to point out that in archery your drawing hand has more to do with accuracy than simply holding the bow strait. if you don't release the arrow just right the string will roll off your fingers and send the arrow spinning off to the weeds so it would take a lot of practice to learn to work with a prosthetic which lacks the dexterity, and has a different feel. also concentration and controlled breathing are very important so being in mindless rage probably not the best condition for accuracy.

[@cui8789]

The gratuitous fanservice moments in this series really don't help. I mean we got Dinah shoving out her chest, two scenes of Donna pushing her ass out to the camera and Jade's entire outfit. Makes me wonder if this whole series was just a parody.

[@kimifw58]

That's actually pretty common in mainstream comics, but that doesn't make it okay.

[@plasticweapon]

linkara, is that you?

[@plasticweapon]

yes it is.

[@ChiefMedicPururu]

10:03 A bit prophetic in hindsight.

[@gregdeandrea1450]

... I LIKE Green Arrow/Black Canary... :(

[@alexveverka3913]

Continuity or not, saying you can’t have kids to a women is begging for an ass kicking.

[@skylord2114]

I like black canary and green arrow together they’re cute

[@Mask0fFate]

12:47 Thank you Convergence tie-ins.

[@melniboneanmenschklavier9965]

fun fact: when i first watched this video, the tab on my browser said "Rise of Arse...". Kinda appropriate

[@edwardramos4591]

19:08 WOW! And I thought that hellspawn contraption from Thor Ragnarok was ridiculous.

[@wisewolftony]

Thank god Young Justice the series handled all of this stuff so much better at least so far. I mean sure Lian isn't Roy Harper kid. But Will Harper who's a clone of the original Roy. But Roy still becomes Arsenal who's still an asshole but at least not anywhere near as much of one as in this series. It's Will who ends up marrying Jade aka Cheshire and having a daughter with her. Who they also handle Cheshire much better as she isn't this villian who nuked a country and is unredeemable.

[@badjokemaker3051]

I had an idea for some Arsenal / Red Hood series or mini series. Of course it's ff at best and I don't know the whole canon but I would picture them meeting after Lian died and Roy Harper is suicidal and on some drugs still pretending he is looking for his daugther. Jason would find him at this state while he is on the run after causing chaos in gotham and wanting revenge for all that "Batman let me die and the joker is still alive" or just this Battle of the cowl mess. Roy at the same time is idealising death and is ready for it while lying about Lian and pretending to be stable and healthy. Telling Jason she is still alive and he wants to find her. Jason on the other hand was dead and knows that the end is not the solution. He sees more and more what really floats Roys boat. But they are two guys not able to follow the foot steps of their mentors. Because of that for a time they work pretty well together because they don't have to justify themselves in front of one another. In the end Jason is forced to call Green Arrow or Black Canary or Dick Grayson to bring Arsenal into therapy after they brought down some big time but pretty realistic and brutal criminal together and Jason sees the truth about Lians death. He knew about that but ignored that lie at first. He would betrayel him for his own good risking the friendship they had in this Series. A meaningful fight of course Arsenal can't win because he doesnt care about winning anymore in the end and is breaking down just attacking because he knows that Hood kills his enemies. In the end Red Hood goes his own way and Roy gets the help he needs after Jason confronted him with the truth and all that. I don't know. Roy gets what Jason needs too but would never ask for. But for that people see there is something like a sane ally left in red hood who cares for other people but sees himself not able to go back. Premise would be like: Sometimes its easier to help someone else then face your own mistakes. Running away and crap. Red Hood / Arsenal: The Way Back! Something like that. That are the things going trough my mind on the toilet.

[@ianr.navahuber2195]

16:09 Pain Killers............OH MY GOD DOES THIS MEANS TOM KING WANTED TO MAKE CRY OF JUSTICE CANON AGAIN?!?!?!? thank goodness the tie in to Roy's death in Heroes in Crisis shows his history with drugs and abandonment instead

[@iamthemouse4483]

I would actually read a comic about Lian going on a time travel adventure before reuniting with her dad.

[@cassiedevereaux-smith3890]

Watching this, after Lian has returned. So, yay! But why is Ollie in his costume still? I mean..... supervillains keeping their costumes in prison was already a thing, so.......

[@Tareltonlives]

Joy? Love? Children? Marraige! Happiness? NOT ALLOWED IN COMICS

[@Tareltonlives]

Um, Cyborg? Have you considered SURGERY for attaching the prosthetic to one of your best friends?

[@CasaiAgicap]

So, I work at a pharmacy in an area with a high rate of opiate addiction, and thus interact with a LOT of addicts and users of oxy and whatnot. In my experience, there IS a non-zero amount of people who hallucinate from painkillers, so it's not completely out of the realm of possibility that some of this stuff could happen to him (that said, it's pretty goddamn rare, and I don't think it makes you experience both visual AND auditory hallucinations, as is what's happening when he talks to his imaginary dealer.) That said, he PROBABLY should be on a different drug if that's happening. Probably.

[@YouCantDeleteDenzelL]

You know a review is gonna be a good one if it literally begins with Linkara laughing his ass off.

[@jacksullivan953]

I still go by my head canon that Lian is the daughter of Roy Harper and Donna Troy in one reality but that's just me

[@RaphBlade7]

Linkara should really do a review of the raise & fall of GREEN ARROW to see how bad it actually is for himself! I mean he at least found RISE OF ARSENAL to be funny & that's more than you could say about the comics that gave us the GEM of MEMEABLE stupidity that is AND TOGETHER WE CAN BE JUSTICE!

[@vcom741]

Waitwaitwait... I just realized. In Young Justice, the daughter of clone Roy Harper and Cheshire... That was Lyanne? CONGRATULATIONS, DC AND CARTOON NETWORK!!! Way to screw up season 3 where we could've seen Lyanne's future WITHOUT CfJ. Why do they hate Lyanne so much? Also, if Lyanne's name was mentioned in YJ I apologized, but last time I watched was 2013 and I didn't watch Linkara back then.

[@lynngreen7978]

Lian. And yes. Also, DC has actually wiped YJ out of existence, as Earth-16 (the Earth YJ took place on) is now the Bronze Age Earth that was supposed to already exist but wasn't previously identified.

[@ngmajora6986]

Lynn Green Jokes on you YJ season 3, CONFIRMED

[@Gyarretto7]

Yep, that baby was indeed Lian. Young Justice was pretty damn awesome ^^ I particularly love how they handled Roy Harper; I didn't know much of anything about Speedy/Red Arrow/Arsenal before being hooked on AT4W, but knowing more about him now, I love how he was handled in Young Justice, having two Roy Harpers: one to be the responsible single father, and the other the robot-armed anti-hero. A great way of having your cake and eating it too.

[@JaelinBezel]

@@Gyarretto7Really though, what's the point of having cake if you can't eat it?

[@skibobshipoddlypop]

@@JaelinBezel it's actually a mistranslated saying from French which should be "eating your cake and having it to", as in you want to eat your cake but then still have it.

[@WhiteScorpio2]

Something went wrong in the 2000s with superhero comic books. Gore, stupid retcons, heroes coming to life in droves (much more than usual). Yes, it started in 90s, but 2000s fucking killed it. I no longer care about modern DC or Marvel. They are dead to me, even though I would look at a single good run or two.

[@TheFrugalVideoGamer]

The most bleedingly obvious question in regards to the "Oh, we can't connect the prosthetic because of the nanite BS" is... why not just amputate with *conventional* tools further up the arm, maybe to the shoulder? Yes, it would be more invasive, but it would have probably done less damage overall. And yet another story arc in which the entire plot hinges on the fact that fiction has no therapists.

[@genesismultiverse4896]

Me at the begining: OH GOD LINKARA BECAME JOKER

[@XX-sp3tt]

Ironic given Ollie and Canary are last I checked a DC OTP.

[@kadindarklord]

Spoiler Alert: It sucks. No offence Linkara, but if it's on your channel, doesn't that make it obvious that it does suck?

[@AT4W]

Not necessarily these days. Plus, as I keep discovering, not everyone watches every episode of the show.

[@kadindarklord]

right

[@SnowyDragoon]

That's not really the point.

[@davidspring4003]

+kadindarklord does Brute Force suck? sure, it's BAD, but it doesn't SUCK!!!

[@arielaguilluz5690]

also there have been cases where the comics are good like when deadpool teamed up wit brute force

[@worstspytf2824]

The funniest thing about this is that I apparently watched the first 3 minutes or so of this and so when I came back KZbin kept where I clicked off and it was literally just "Bad...Lets dig into rise of arsenal number one and number two" with out any other context. That's a better intro to most comics featured on the show then the actual formal introductions.

[@FortesAccount]

one time a guy in a class i took said "Yeah i buy new 52 green arrow" and i never respected him again. Its not his fault but Green Arrow had it rough in the 2000s. And like i watched a bunch of arrow but 'the cw' can go to hell. So "sorry ollie. youre the man, everybody makes your life a bummer.."

[@ryanangelastro504]

Well the Jeff Lemire run was awesome.

[@LeHobbitFan]

I hate it that hearing "Great Beyond" makes me think of Sausage Party. And I don't need to be reminded of this movie.

[@TheLionofSparta480]

Yo Linkara, good news. I don't know if you read the Convergence issues of Titans, but I think you'll be pleased by what happens involving Lian.

[@andreworders7305]

What’s wrong with marrying Green Arrow and Black Canary?

[@djpeanutbutterjelly]

JT Krul's New 52 Green Arrow is absolutely terrible.

[@DeathofInk]

+Dylan Baldwin It's a sad truth.

[@skyslasher2297]

2:23 What people were against it. But they’re so cute together.

[@Canadamus_Prime]

I'm curious. If the nanite things had damaged the nerve endings could they not amputate what remained of his arm and give him a prosthesis that attached at the shoulder and would not have him in constant pain?

[@Gyarretto7]

You're probably right, but given how much china cat the writers were on, I doubt they thought of that, or did the appropriate medical and scientific research