Rise of Arsenal #3-4 - Atop the Fourth Wall

[@Conflict-ff5pi]

I half expected ghost lian to start dropping F-bombs and wanting to be called christabella.

[@ocallaghandesign]

Someone has probably already said this but... This is a bit of a pet peeve of mine. The popular understanding of the 5 stages of grief is garbage. Kübler-Ross studied the attitudes of the critically ill. The 5 stages of grief were never intended to heal the survivors, but assure the dying. They are not a roadmap to anywhere, but more like a mall map (you are here) to provide context on our situation. We may react to our own impending mortality in ways that differ wildly from the way we like to think of ourselves. But in this aberration Elizabeth Kübler-Ross comforts us with the kinship of humanity; that we may not understand why we are reacting this way, but that this reaction is normal and natural. We don’t work through the steps; we embrace our state. That being said, Roy Harper is an idiot in this.

[@DoctorTopper]

"I'm your friend" Oh my good. If anyone can detain their childhood friend without hurting them, it should be Dick Grayson. He has unmatched agility, he has several restraining devices and nets IN HIS BELT. But nope... bat-kick to the face...

[@walkingcubkid]

Roy does deserve it though.

[@neoforrester4401]

Maybe that's the reason Dick failed. He kicked Roy instead of punching him with his Magical Fist of Morality.

[@zangetsu134]

Honestly, why didn't they just make Arsenal hook up with Chesire again and make them an assasain couple. Hell, she could even be giving him drugs to help him fall down that slope. It would still make him go down a dark road without the hilariously bad Zombie ghosts

[@Rabbitlord108]

I'm honestly glad this didn't lead to another instance of a hero becoming a villain. That sounds like a twisted gender bent version of how Sue Storm went evil after having a stillbirth. I'd prefer to have Roy vent out his frustration by killing Cheshire.

[@sinjin8576]

"I need heroin" >dealer gives the insane super hero PCP cause hes scared to tell him hes out The depictions here would actually make so much more sense if that was the case

[@petertoye314]

Roy: How the hell did all this skin get on my arm?

[@averagejoe5145]

I can't believe this comic got an award for being a so-called "accurate" depiction of drug use. Makes you wonder if the people handling that award were on drugs themselves.

[@emac94]

Obviously not Average Joe, if they were they’d know that the drugs Roy used don’t cause hallucinations.

[@JaelinBezel]

20:07 Yeah even the total hardass running Iron Heights let the rogues wear their costumes because it "reminds them that they can never escape their past, that criminals are all they'll ever be." Spoilers, but... The Rogues had actually made an abandoned and forgotten portion under Iron Heights their new hideout and used holograms and some kind of electronics hidden in their costumes to avoid being discovered.

[@vocalcalibration8033]

I seem to remember Young Justice handling this story... but a million times better. The arm losing things, his daughter, etc. Oh... and Cheshire's outfit!

[@christiancrusader9374]

Slade Wilson the Mercenary well, one's a clone of the other but yes.

[@LaineMann]

Young Justice handles EVERYTHING better. Still waiting for enby Halo to be comic canon though. 😒

[@Dragonpit]

Let him down a path? Please... This whole arc reeks of the intent of someone who thinks of family as chains that "holds a man down". As if someone thinks the Roy Harper would have more "freedom" if he didn't have a child weighing him down. It's also probably why they had Roy locked up alone in rehab, rather than getting help from his friends, because "a real man doesn't need help getting through his problems." I want to think it's just my imagination, but it seems so prevalent in some of the more recent DC comics that Linkara reviews here.

[@Nazo-kage]

Dragonpit I've read that in a lot of causes (not all) people go throu the five stages of grief, but he never goes throu all of them he gets stuck on anger and never leaves it. Maybe just maybe he would have reached the bargaining stage if during his hallucination fight trying to protect Luanne from the Prometheuses as if saveing here from them whould make everything better, if they had done that he could move to depression and finally acceptance allowing him to move on. But he never leaves anger and lashes out at everyone until he is left with no one (from both other charterers and readers.)

[@TheAwesomeHyperon]

Michelle Lincoln it fits with DiDios philosophy of All Heroes must be misrable

[@GradeAMolvanian]

It reeks of editorial mandates actually. A lot of the clunky parts look like the writer was forced to hammer them in.

[@ilopominecrafter]

TheAwesomeHyperon or that all heroes are power fantasies with little to no heroism involved. Or friendship. Or friendliness. Or color.

[@pinoypizza]

The timing of this one is very convenient considering that one Convergence DC title that's about the Titans and features Roy, Donna, Starfire...and Lian. Oh boy...

[@jamesmason3734]

Honestly Roy Harper in this miniseries reminds me of my mom, she would wine about how much she hurts and how everyone screws her over at every freaking opportunity. Yet when she screws someone else over (Like how she got me in dept.) or when she abuses her children it's still everyone else's fault. So Roy is far less terrible than my mom. At least he does stop wineing. Also god this comic is horribly offensive in it's depiction of mental illness.

[@Egalitariat-likesecretariat]

James Mason Sympathies, man.

[@adam_nathan]

As someone who's had issues with opiates you CAN hallucinate... kind of. If you take enough you go to sleep and have vivid dreams, I often found myself suddenly saying something to a friend that made sense in the dream, but immediately didn't when I was awake. It's not unpleasant, but you can certainly see how loved ones were depressed to see me like that. It's like telling a joke and having to say "You just had to be there", only to realise how fucked up the joke was, and that it wasn't ever funny to begin with. So... yeah, hard to explain.

[@seand7042]

This is absolutely true

[@adam_nathan]

@@Delightfully_Witchy On heroin these days after getting off the doctor prescribed painkillers for a few weeks, but a functional addict (kind of the only solace I can take in it all). I was prescribed painkillers by the doctor when I was 17 in 2011 and they stopped prescribing them after giving me a taper and supervised detox at the beginning of 2020 just after I turned 26. Right after detox and feeling really positive about things, an abusive relationship happened followed by COVID lockdown and social isolation. I wasn’t ready for isolation without opiates yet (look up post-a Ute withdrawal syndrome) and I found heroin. This was all helped by the fact that I live in QLD, Australia, which allowed lots of socialisation from about May/June onwards since we didn’t really have a big issue with COVID here, this allowed me to make drug connections. Now I’m 27 and on heroin, but I’m not alone and have better mental health than before 2020. It’s just that now I’m stuck with heroin addiction.

[@adam_nathan]

As a follow-up: I’m now a functional heroin addict, I’m sorry that stories don’t always work out, sometimes they get worse. I can say that “China cat” is probably referring to “China white” heroin, the purest form of heroin available. I live in Australia, a country where cutting with fentanyl isn’t an issue (yet, anyway) because we aren’t sold to by Mexican cartels which started the practice due to the immense demand of the US market, which is another thing Australia doesn’t have. As such I take what’s know as double UO Globe (or China White Lion) brand heroin. Funnily enough, assuming it’s purity, it’s safer than alcohol when administered correctly. The stuff I get comes in rock form so if it’s cut the person would have had to have chemically reconstituted the entire product, which just isn’t worth it in the Australian heroin market.

[@peterreeves5666]

They bring Lian back in convergence thankfully

[@garchomplord5081]

Peter Reeves and the downside is?

[@austinharris9077]

@@garchomplord5081 It's not the main continuity...Ugh!

[@ilopominecrafter]

Austin Harris if i am right, weren’t most alternate timelines (including the real dc universe that new 52 replaced until rebirth brought the real one and the best of new 52) destroyed and the original multiverse of billions of worlds restored due to undoing the biggest event dc ever did?

[@OverlyPositiveFanboy]

@@austinharris9077 Greetings from the 2020s!

[@thesilencer1969]

24:04 They could have been giving him morphine for the incredible pain . Roy could then develop an addiction that way .

[@RichardWatt]

Although morphine's strictly monitored and should only be administered by someone medically qualified.

[@thegayhare]

You know I was rewatching this last night and I had a thought about the fact that Green Arrow kept his costume in prison. I can see a reason for it (but not for the supervillian keeping his) and it actually might make for an interesting story. My thought is this. He killed a supervillian one who just killed many people in the city he set himself to protect, killed some one close to him and maimed someone else close to him. Despite him being a vigilante I could see him having alot of sympathy from authorities. He wouldn't be allowed into general population, and especially in a facility that houses super villians. But I can see them wanting to keep the hero on there good side. Allowing him a costume (not his original but a prison made version) could help with that. And allowing him to occasionally go on rounds with guards could help keep the population in line. He'd also be there on call for any riot, or prison break to assist the guards. Granted he'd still be a prisoner, and they would keep him locked in his cell, and they would not allow him access to his gear but it could make for some interesting stories

[@CodecrafterArtemis]

Honestly, I'm a touch surprised Green Arrow is in prison. Isn't he supposed to be rich? Couldn't he be released on bail? And even if he can't, I'm sure he can request to be tried by the jury and I'm pretty sure the jury wouldn't be strict to a person who killed someone who destroyed their entire city.

[@juniorjunior5884]

That sounds a bit like a character in Grappler Baki. Biscuit Oliva is one of the strongest dudes on the planet and he lives the high life in a super prison despite being a prisoner, he practically runs the place. The government gives him anything he wants, he keeps the inmates in line and hunts down any dangerous criminals he's payed to catch. I could see something like that for a superhero in a comic universe.

[@The_AGL_Group]

As someone who recently went through a traumatic experience and is still dealing with a mental health crisis (no drugs), everyone (especially Roy) are acting awfully. It can be hard to open up about your problems with family, but if you have a real honest-to-god friend, don't push them away. Ask for help, tell them what you're going through. Your trauma may not be special (mine involved a relationship gone sour intertwining with my dysphoria to cause strong self-worth issues) but that does not make it any less valid and those friends, even if they haven't gone through similar things, might be able to actually support you in ways only they can. Roy's bad for rejecting sentiment and help and Dick is bad for not making sure someone's there for him in recovery...

[@rogvortex58]

I only found out about Roy and Jade being a couple from watching Young Justice. Her trying to say it's okay he wasn't able to perform after she just tried to kill him is hilarious.

[@bthsr7113]

Sometimes I imagine a bar where characters go to cope with being badly written or written out of character. After this comic I imagine Roy fixed a sippy cup to help her get over the post mortem character assassination.

[@mistertea603]

LOOOOVE that imagery

[@Theawesomestguy1]

Re: Dick and Dinah leaving him in the rehab facility, I don't see how they're being bad friends. I don't imagine they themselves can stay at the facility with him (and Dick's dialogue implies this is a good facility), they've likely been up all night searching for him in the first place and need to get changed and rested themselves, and their dialogue indicates they plan to visit him as often as they can (and likely would have, if he didn't escape that night). Their presence isn't helping him and all they've been doing is taking his abuse, which is really not healthy for either of them and isn't constructive for Roy, so the best they can do is give him space for the time being. Dinah especially is grieving for Lian too, is also dealing with her marriage breaking down with Oliver, *and* has been the one who Roy has been the cruelest to so far (attacking her infertility is an especially low blow when you know the context behind why she was infertile was one of the most traumatic events of her life).

[@MsZigzagger]

God Almighty, that was horrid! Not only did they needlessly kill off one of the best child supporting characters in DC, but they had to destroy Roy Harper's character as well?! Roy and Lian's relationship was one of the best things about Teen Titans, and they eliminated it for the sake of cheap shock value.

[@MsZigzagger]

You know what pisses me off even more?? They dragged Nightwing and Black Canary down with him!! Dick is supposed to be Roy's best friend, who helped rescue Lian, and he just abandons Roy in a rehab with no intent on helping him get through it?! Dinah knows how how awful drug addiction is because she helped Roy get clean the first time he was shooting up, and she just washes her hands and doesn't object?! I despise what they've done to Nightwing and BC in that story, almost as much as I hate what they've done to Roy and Lian Harper! New 52 has only made it worse in regards to Roy!!

[@MsZigzagger]

It's one thing to not like a particular comic book character, everyone has differing tastes and opinions. But as editor in chief to a major comic book company like DC or Marvel, it is crucial that you try to be objective when treating those characters in stories, and that means not committing character assassination or heaping abuse or praise on them that they don't deserve. Not every one shares your opinion, and doing that just ruins good storytelling and turns away prospective readers.

[@MsZigzagger]

+Iak zar I agree. In spite of his success with women, Dick is genuinely interested in a long term relationship, and he always treats his girlfriends with respect and kindness. I'd have loved to see Dick marry Oracle and have a little girl, who'd grow up to be Lian Harper's best friend, who everyone in the superhero community would adore, and would follow in her parents' footsteps to be a crimefighter. But of course, New 52 ruined that for me, so I'll take what I can get with high quality fanfiction instead.

[@MsZigzagger]

+Iaz kar also agree about the rape thing. I hate how they handled NW's rape by Tarantula, and how the writer dismissed it as "non-consensual sex" (even though that's the same thing). Not to mention when Mirage raped him by disguising herself as Starfire, and everyone just acted surprised but was never brought up again afterwards. It makes me want to go Deathstroke on their asses. To me, it doesn't matter if the victim is male or female, rape is rape. Period.

[@MsZigzagger]

+laz kar Because according to guys like Joe Quesada and Dan Didiot, characters who are constantly angsty, miserable, and never achieve happiness are boring. Quesada also seems to think that marriage, parenthood, and other real life events don't make for good drama. Of course, we all know it's because they're too lazy to do anything other write excessively dark, depressing things just for shock value and "edginess." Linkara has summed it up succinctly in his rant in his One More Day episode.

[@SpySecretSquirrel]

So Superman has his "I AM A MAN!" punch while Batman has his "I AM A FRIEND!" kick? I can dig it.

[@Uleftthedooropen]

Exactly how many porcelain animals do you own?

[@cobrasphere9760]

And more precisely, how many porcelain Cybermats do you own?

[@dnmstarsi]

I'm gonna say not enough. LOL

[@andrewgwilliam4831]

Clearly an undercover law enforcement officer trying to gauge how deep Linkara is involved in the narcotics business. 🤔

[@RabblesTheBinx]

Exactly the number he needs. No more, no less.

[@imthethriller]

That "Life is pain" reminds me so much of the "Once Proud Elemental" panel from Newmen#1

[@GeminiRosche]

If anything. Anything at all. I’m glad Roy and Cheshire have a happier relationship of a kickass couple of parents in the Young Justice cartoon.

[@dnmstarsi]

That's because YJ is handled by people who aren't that dumb. Although I kinda wish Roy in that show would confront this Roy and tell him what Linkara said.

[@LaineMann]

That’s because Young Justice is good. At least in some parts,

[@JaelinBezel]

Another thing: if the news media know for a fact that Prometheus was the one who caused so much damage to Star City as their dialogue implies, why are they arresting Green Arrow? Shouldn't they be giving him a medal or something instead?

[@dnmstarsi]

It was still murder though. Yes, you're right about Prometheus but Ollie crossed a line for the sake of "justice" and has to pay for that action. I know what I'm saying is dumb but that's my take on why GA got arrested.

[@rynobehnke8289]

@@dnmstarsi I guess in-universe would it be decided by what ever the since World War 2 existing Super Hero laws state on these cases.

[@dnmstarsi]

@@rynobehnke8289 Probably.

[@skyslasher2297]

He likely just turned himself in since In his mind he still committed a murder for all we know he's just being held until trial cause I doubt a jury would convict him or something like this.

[@skyslasher2297]

He probably insisted since it’s still murder

[@101Draico]

It tells you something when my little pony understands grief better than DC

[@anthonyrodriguez1119]

how did they show greif my fellow animation fan?

[@101Draico]

Watch the episode Tanks for the memories and it shows the 5 stages of the grieving process.

[@anthonyrodriguez1119]

+Max Glaysher is it any good

[@101Draico]

Its considered one of the best episodes of season 5

[@anthonyrodriguez1119]

+Max Glaysher neat

[@TECH097]

13:53 Nonono Lewis, you shouldn't joke about that, it's totally valid that Dick kicked Roy in the face. Remember in The Titans Issue 16 when Roy punched Dick in the face in order to break The Gargoyle's hold on the group? That's what friends are SUPPOSED to do! :D

[@iugk]

Fuck exams ! PRAISE LINKARA !

[@TheGregmanPL]

Actually that thought about Jade being the best in the bed is pretty much in character. Bad moment, but Roy would totally think that.

[@joeywaters5559]

As a fan of The Boys, naming heroin A-Train is so hilariously appropriate.

[@legomaniac213]

As usual, the Previously On segments make more sense than the comic itself!

[@chaosinc.382]

My personal headcanon for these... 'hallucinations' is that Prometheus somehow infected his brain and made him go coocoo for coconuts

[@TheSpoonyCroy]

+Chaos inc. Well I think the writers were going for the idea of personifying his grief especially with Lian at the end. She basically becomes a symbol of revenge for him and his failures however it was poorly executed

[@chaosinc.382]

TheSpoonyCroy i will also take that

[@ShanaReviews]

I use to wonder why there were so many reboots, retcons, etc. being announced. Flashpoint, New 52, DC rebirth, etc. now i understand, DC wants to clean up the mess they made

[@ryanangelastro504]

And for that, I’m grateful. DC Rebirth was awesome. Especially Titans and Green Arrow.

[@93MANIAC]

Congratulations DC Comics you somehow managed to make the tragic death of an innocent little girl hilarious

[@DeadBoneJones]

Whatever Oancitizen's on about in the intro sounds way more interesting than the comic.

[@petehill7280]

It's something occult and magical. He references "hanuman" and "Vishnu", hindu deities, states that it's "qlippothic", not "sephirothic", in reference to Qabbalah, a form of Jewish mysticism, he talks about the masculine and feminine forms of the sun and moon deities, which are things sometimes discussed within wiccan circles. The word "Tetragrammaton" is used, which means "the four-letter word", and is often used in reference to what God said to Moses through the burning bush-- "YHVH"-- "I Am What I Am". That's only SOME of the references that Oancitizen goes through.

[@TheSeptet]

I think I heard something about ponies in there as well.

[@Greener221]

@@petehill7280 It's pretty much directly quoting Foucault's Pendulum. Really good book, you'd be impressed what they're actually talking about.

[@TPrower]

You're not the only one who's pronounced Cheshire like that, Linkara. I used to do that before I rewatched Alice in Wonderland (the animated Disney version) and heard it pronounced that way in Jim Dale's Around the World in 80 Days audiobook, but both Care Bears in Wonderland and the Cat in the Hat movie pronounced it like 'Chesh-ire" instead of "Chess-sure", so they didn't get the memo either. No shame in having hard-wired pronunciation. XD Sorry, I hope I didn't make that sound condescending.

[@Decembirth]

How to make sure lone-hero Roy doesn't have kids or a intimate sex-life again, make him sexually impotent by use of anger and drugs. Wow, I was attempting to give this comic a benefit of doubt, but ugh. No thanks. Comicbook writers don't want their heroes to be virgins, but they don't want them to be in love either. It is ridiculous! Roy needs a hardcore.exe reboot- stat!! Making him a teen again annoys me, it is like Marvel with Peter Parker syndrome, but at least get rid of this storyline.

[@TheBonkleFox]

Fortunately i heard lian was brought back to life when Roy tricked Dreamslayer into doing it. fuck I want to make a "one more day" joke but i can't think of one.

[@walkingcubkid]

You should've read Roy's words in superboy prime's voice, know what I mean?

[@RhyperiorRanger]

walkingcubkid I just imagined that. Fucking hilarious

[@dnmstarsi]

I think that's reserved for the more whiny and selfish. Roy is whiny but it's just him being stuck in the anger stage of grief and refusing help to deal with the pain of losing his kid (and arm). It's not the same level of whinyness as SB Prime as well as Firebrand, Isaak Crowe the dishonorable mentions of Spidey in One More Day and some of the whiners in Act of God.

[@TheSirenNymph]

I already said this on the site ,but who's up for having Crispin Freeman say "China Cat"?

[@dnmstarsi]

I'd be down with that. Have him and some other VA re-enact the scene where Roy is buying Heroin in some Comic Con.

[@TevyaSmolka]

How sad is it that both Roy Harper arsenal and his daughter Lian Harper are now both dead and buried

[@alexandercross9081]

I'm going to have to find a way to make Kyle saying "fuckity shit" and make it my ringtone

[@Gyarretto7]

Show of hands: Who wants to see Lian become the new Speedy, in DC Rebirth? ^^

[@mitchfletcher2386]

Right here!

[@garchomplord5081]

Gyarretto7 well it’s a better idea then Lian being a... ZOMBIE GHOST

[@dakotadoyle7573]

Didnt that happen in an alternate future?

[@ilopominecrafter]

dakota doyle back when hypertime was the new “multiverse” which in concept was really good, but fell apart when you got stuff like “no can know about hypertime”.

[@dnmstarsi]

That'd be awesome. I'd tell DC to make it happen but I'd have a bad feeling that Lian as Speedy could probably fail.

[@eugenideddis]

I've missed the previously on segments

[@amberbarbera2001]

I haven't lost any of my limbs , nor have I lost any children, but I did just lose my little three year old sister, and I haven't been this rude to my parents, friends, family, or any one else that has tired to help.

[@Cybermat47]

I'm so sorry for your loss :(

[@meowistforlife]

Cybermat47 same

[@dallinagatone1356]

The Angels in America reference made me lose my shit.

[@bunkerzero]

A better mini-series would have been Roy going through the stages of grief with ghost lian coming to Roy and telling him that everything will be alright ending the series with acceptance, having roy moving on with his life.

[@RaphBlade7]

Alternative idea is go full comic book on the ZOMBIE GHOST LIAN who becomes ROY's constant companion with her odd behavior being influenced by her soul somehow becoming corrupted as a result of PROMETHOUS' dimension bomb device & ROY goes on a quest to determine if she's really a figment of his drug addled mind or the real LIAN! Ultimately she is real & ROY manages to free her from said corruption, but she is left with ghostly powers!

[@miguelgarcia6170]

11:54 "Can't stop The A-Train" get it from The Boy's

[@Gat720Dua]

I just realized there's a lot of pregnancy jokes on this "Last Time" sketch.

[@AT4W]

Yep. Check the behind-the-scenes. I didn't give people much direction on this one for the Previously On, just "do it like it's a soap opera where someone dramatically reveals they're pregnant or whatever."

[@Gat720Dua]

Linkara-AtopTheFourthWall And I guess most of them had the same idea about the pregnancy part or they were just lazy XD

[@Gat720Dua]

Dark Hinata Aliens are invading, the gates of hell has open, a legion of undead Nazi's has risen from their grave and worse of all the prom is tomorrow! D:

[@ZannyAisling]

I loved the juxtaposition of the soap opera shenanigans with Brows Held High Guy's extended Foucault's Pendulum reference.

[@michaelk8860]

The fact that this book won an award is disgusting.

[@MTdaBlacking]

I'm too afraid to see if you're right...

[@Jose-se9pu]

I love how Roy gives shit to Dick Grayson...DICK GRAYSON, the man who saw his entire family been killed when he was a kid, and at the moment this comic book took place, just lost his father figure.

[@dnmstarsi]

Yep. Although to Roy, that doesn't count because he lost his parents, not his offspring. And that's a big difference to him (which it isn't at all but the book wants us to feel sorry for Roy even though it's failing miserably).

[@DankeDummkopf]

I know this is an older video, but I still want to mention this. The five stages of grief are only applicable to dying people, not people who had someone close to them die. Even then, people do shift from different stages in different order (even going back to different stages) and go through it at their own pace.

[@rjb1216]

Guenter Gudermuth um, no

[@bluelan9393]

Actually no. The stage of giref applies to almost all loses, more strong if it very significative to the person. I dont know where you get that information. Atte. A psichologyst.

[@Solo_Sessums]

Inspite of the problems i had with the creative decisions in the last two seasons, Enough great things can't be said about the Young Justice Cartoon and how they redeemed so many characters, especially Roy.

[@christopherthibeault7502]

The Rise of Arsenal has many parallels to the Azrael comic book series, from the dominant colors of Roy Harper's new outfit to the uncertain, ambiguous nature behind his own plot. It is also a harsh indictment against the kind of narrative that Dennis O'Neil had manufactured--the one he was most comfortable with. First of all, Roy is suffering a constant dying dream in many ways. That's the same as what Jean-Paul suffered in his own comic. Most of his moments with other allies may be contrived and even his own outfit might be non-existent. The imagined dealer wears the same glasses that Jean-Paul had sported in his appearances. Roy is trapped around a web of death, just like Jean-Paul's outfit as Azrael, angel of death. He sees his daughter in the morgue alone, then goes to a funeral where he's the only one dressed for the occasion, where he pummels and berates others for their failures. Interesting to note that Donna Troy did have a kid sometime during the nineties when, again, she was serving as one of the Darkstars and occasionally hanging out with Kyle Rayner, Green Lantern. There wasn't anything sexual in that--just two buddy cops--but referring back to the nineties in some capacity is another nod to the time of Azrael. And the actual lack of hallucinogenics--to the extremes seen in this book--alludes to it not happening at all, that Roy Harper has been dreaming this whole time and is in a battle to the center of his mind. That's why he watches the news about his mentor jailed after his murder of Prometheus, that's why Ollie Queen is still dressed as Green Arrow, that's why Cheshire claws him and his lives, that's why the two vie for an emotional connection from sexuality even though Roy can't get it up, that's why Roy parodies the power fantasy theory of comic books by pounding relentlessly upon drug abusers for that ever-elusive O-Face, that's why, despite being the Dick Grayson version of Batman, Batman can kick him around and claim to be his friend--just like kicking Jean-Paul around and belittling him in subtle ways in every other issue of Azrael--and that's why Roy cannot verify reality and fantasy anymore, from trauma and drug-induced psychosis. This means Roy Harper is essentially Jean-Paul Valley because the author of Jean-Paul let him die and stay dead, disallowing anyone else from writing him or including him anywhere else in the DCU. So, once people want to have a respectable version of a nineties anti-hero (of which Jean-Paul eventually became a reconstruction of), it falls flat, and the contrivances come off as bogus or silly as opposed to endearing. This has as much plot as an erotic film and is far less appealing to the eye, heart and mind. Yet, this is what they wanted to do with Roy and the fans who misunderstood or failed to grasp the context vehemently cried out in vain. Now we have a trucker hat and no strings to tie this ragdoll together.

[@undead923]

I must applaud DC for not going for a Black Lantern Lian, even for the Green Arrow tie-in. Even they knew it would be going too far, especially for a zombie story

[@genkaiba15]

13:58 "Friends don't let friends do heroin. Kick them in the face if you need to." Oh...I will. 😒

[@Valdagast]

Seems opioid withdrawal _can_ cause hallucinations, but they're more likely to be tactile than visual and auditory.

[@Soupgirlpeasant]

Now Lian is happy soul. These birds don't don't have to see Lian yet, its not time.

[@oliveragag8576]

I half expect dc to actually return lian as an actual zombie ghost

[@noahmagana137]

10 years of China cat

[@badjokemaker3051]

Never start or end it with the Baileys...

[@Merit2397]

LOL The zombie ghost gag gave me a chuckle too.

[@Bryan-dr5qy]

I wonder how Linkara feels about Convergence,not the main book because it sucks but the tie-ins.Yay,Roy Harper has his daughter back and Ralph and Sue are back together.

[@shadowspider9]

+Bryan Leong It's a bit of win lose scenario in my opinion. God news is Roy has Lian back. Bad news is it's a version of Roy that no longer exists so we'll still likely never see Lian in the comics again.

[@shadowspider9]

kurvos They are doing another reboot called Rebirth soon. No idea what it will do besides reset the issues back to #1 again.

[@shadowspider9]

kurvos Ahh. ok. I'd only head it setting the titles back to #1. So I assumed it was a reboot.

[@shadowspider9]

kurvos What they need to fix is the screwed up continuity. that's why i dropped it in the first place. At the very least Dick will be back to being Nightwing again so depending on the writing team i might pick that up. And it seems like they are actually going to cut down the number of Batman titles.

[@shadowspider9]

kurvos Convergence tries to give it closure. It has events happen like Roy getting Lian back. Superman and Lois having a kid. Dick and Barbra getting married. And a few others

[@belseygell9258]

0:55 To this day, my favorite scripted Nash moment.

[@Tareltonlives]

Gonna have to ask this: Who WANTED this comic minseries to be made?

[@Tareltonlives]

And the only award this deserved is the comic equivalent of a razzie

[@topcatninjahousepetsdigian9336]

@@Tareltonlives And Whats That😕?"

[@Tareltonlives]

From offensive to farcial. This series is insane.The 90s never ended for some people

[@SaiyanGamer95]

I actually looked on Urban Dictionary for China Cat. Apart from the song, China Cat Sunflower by Grateful Dead, Urban Dictionary describes it as "The drug Heroin (high potency)"

[@DeathofInk]

I really liked Sued's "last time segment", he's just tons of fun!

[@skyslasher2297]

18:44 I think cause it’s supposed to be a manifestation of Roy’s guilt. It’s mostly in the dialogue coming off as what Roy believes was his mistake that lead to him losing her.

[@neoforrester4401]

18:38 -- 18:50 Because otherwise it wouldn't be hardcore or edgy now, would it? 23:24 And, eventually, he'd ditch the china cat in favor of steroids and renamed himself Shaft.

[@RabblesTheBinx]

So... a decade after this comic came out, what's your opinion on the most recent Lian retcon?

[@kittykatmeowmix]

Lian's zombie ghost reminds me a little too much of that a-hole little girl from the Silent Hill comics.

[@Disconnectmyself]

Whole time as I was watching this I thought of Face/off and I heard Castor Troy in my head: "Doctor Walsh! I'm just enjoying some of your greatest hits here. I hope you don't mind: I partook of a few of your groovy painkillers. Oh, bravo. Bra-fucking-vo. Oh God, this is excellent. Bravo!" :D

[@ilovehertodeath]

Out of curiosity where did the Zombie Goasts clip come from?

[@AT4W]

Half-Life: FULL LIFE CONSEQUENCES!

[@ilovehertodeath]

Linkara-AtopTheFourthWall That's what I thought but I wasn't sure. Thanks Linkara!

[@thevision3150]

Takaithepanda You made me think there'd be Zombie Goats in the video. Too much expectations lol

[@ilovehertodeath]

The Vision No no, Zombie Ghosts, but the Ghosts is misspelled on purpose.

[@thevision3150]

Takaithepanda I am now back here after watching Full Life Consequences for 99 times. THE PANTS ARE DEAD

[@akhannar9368]

14:02 This is actually a good advice, no joke. Although its a pretty short lasting solution.

[@Merit2397]

Looking forward the 2011 reboot eh... yeah good luck with that man, your gonna need it.

[@BigA207]

13:39 Whoever delivered that award had less credibility than the Academy Awards.

[@adam_nathan]

As a follow-up to a reply of mine where I talked about my experience with opiates: I am now on heroin, but at least remain functional and I live in Australia which isn’t overrun with fentanyl, so the addiction is as at least safer than in North America. The approach of forcing detox is what got me into heroin: It doesn’t work. You can’t punish an addict into recovery, “tough love” doesn’t solve the addict’s problems, it solves the problems of the addicts friends and family ( a lot of the time only temporarily at best). This is why even hard drugs need to be decriminalised or legalised, because we need to give people the space to work through their addiction safely without them risking taking tainted supplies or developing a criminal record.

[@OnDavidsBrain]

So yeah, Convergence basically undid both this and Cry for Justice so there's that. But are you ever going to review Fall of Green Arrow or is it just not bad enough or just plain irrelevant these days?

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

"I needed an outlet." After all, I can't plug an extension cord into the empty air. Oh, you made that joke yourself. I should wait a few seconds before pausing the video to make a comment.

[@cassandrag2406]

Well... Lian's ghost was probably attached to the house, so burning the house gets rid of the spirit, This is true because that is what supernatural says

[@Wren_the_Bird_King]

She was a hallucination.

[@johnalogue9832]

I feel like the opening is a parody of excessively parodying things. It is beautiful.

[@jeremyjbaker1]

Actually when you put someone in detox they advise loved ones to stay away in the beginning .

[@bomemphis1477]

hey guys I was just thinking Roy might be taking muscle relaxers. muscle relaxers will cause you to somewhat hallucinate but not take away any pain.

[@RaphBlade7]

Kinda surprised Roy doesn't like try to use Chesire's assassin background find the League of Assassins, then, maybe try & work a deal with Ra' Al Ghul or Talia to use a Lazarus pit to resurrect their daughter unless they weren't available at the time! I mean it could have been an interesting story of a father & mother doing everything they can to bring their daughter back! Also maybe you could add a wrench into the plan by Lian being somewhat effected by the Lazarus Pit's tendency to drive people temporarily insane & the whole experiencing DEATH & resurrection giving Roy a price he has to pay to have her back in his life. It could even lead to future stories where they explore how this effects Lian & her relationship with her parents.

[@appabend]

17:18 Look at the panel in the right. The guy looks like Dwayne The Rock Johnson.

[@petehill7280]

Appabend? What the Hell are you doing here?

[@bigshambowski]

I don't know where I am when I watch his prologues.

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

I know this is way after the fact and the meme is completely dead, but . . . 17:36 - Zombie Goasts! Leave this plot!

[@M7MAD520]

Having a Zombie-Ghost follow you around?! place it in a close place and BURN IT THE $@#! DOWN!!

[@feenie5567]

The fact that whatever's going on in the Previously On segment sounds like a movie I'd pay to see says a lot about the comic's quality...

[@fermintenava5911]

I must imagine... If this comic had come out any earlier, Linkara probably might have put it on the Top 15 Worst Times Heroes Turned to Villains-list.

[@nooneinparticular5256]

Huh. Loss of limb, losing your daughter, guilt, self-loathing, selfish decisions, grief, drug addiction, temptation, and a previous catastrophe that heavily shook the setting. Ladies and Gents, if you want a story that handles these issues well, with the proper gravity, and can still be funny at points, I recommend the RPG: LISA.

[@adeadphish7931]

Years later and I am still wondering about Welshy's cell phone 3DS. Also, as time goes on, it is clear Nash still managed to give less of a crap

[@NinjaVampireCyborg]

Those previously on segments are the best

[@garchomplord5081]

14:47 I think roy has youngblood disease

[@maritimeretro2855]

drug withdrawal psychosis is well documented. It has a lot to do with the fact that if you quit a drug you're addicted to you stop eating or sleeping or resting in any way, that can cause a ton of problems, whether or not the substance is still in your system (usually if you were to go into rehab they would detox you as well so they would do things to make the heroin in your system inert). Not saying this is a good comic or anything it's just that is pretty accurate. Same thing with the Heroin thing in the alley way, it's not that he would be hallucinating per se, but you could be imagining things attacking you and just start swinging, if people near by saw you they would try to help you and you'd smash them without even realizing it, you wouldn't feel or see anything because of the drugs.

[@clavatK]

Stoping at 5:33 Before we start. Just want to make clear that Yes. high amount of stress can affect the... "performance" of a Man in bed. and also another thing. is heavily common for people to have sex. Before Funerals. During Funerals. After Funerals. As Sex is a way to increase skinship and warmth. is a way to "Release" Tension and Stress (For Both Males and Females Before something happens.) And...is it that hard to believe that she might not want to kill Roy? after all the whole thing looks more like two exlovers griefing over a similar problem. most likely she you know put gloves that had no poison? Undercut the whole idea? Missing the point? This is Roy whose life was thrown outside out a few days ago. he feels that he failed as a father. failed as a hero (cant hold his bow) and when he wanted an outlet from this Grief. he fails? WITH SOMETHING THATS HEAVILY MADE FUN OF ON OUR SOCIETY? Man i hope that in these years you have come to understand that this is a huge pressure for THOUSANDS of men in the world. Again. Releasing Anger after he "Failed" to take Revenge on Mister Evil (Whatever his name is) Laptop? Thats a Briefcase! (Okay that one i understand was a joke) Also we return to the point i said on the other video. YEs. Lian was his Anchor. without her. he can now return to drugs. Heroin is not an alucigen. Right. He is having an Schyzophrenic Episode. Also about the whole Story thing. No. This is a Story about a Drug Adict. (one of the first in comics if i dont remember) this is a story to explore the dark toughts of a person. this is not a "Funy" story. this is meant to be dramatic. to bring your characters that you love and show you that theyre not just some goofy idiots that dont care about anything. After all. its comics books right? the medium where everyone dies and revive three days later right? No. Its a "real" story. one which was meant to have consecuences. of a man who is aisolating himself from everyone that loves him. who is leaving his "Family" because he cant deal with his past. Heck. this story is actually better than any other i have read. Because it actually has consecuences. (or is meant to have. Truth be told i didnt even klnew about the character. until i saw this same review one year ago. ) And yeah. again with the whole he is a dick because he doesn´t care about people. Truth be told. they do matter. but "this" is not their Story. This is Arsenal Story. his journey through his "hell" THE FIVE STAGES OF GRIEF ARE NOT LIKE IN TV! i meet a woman who was still crying for the death of her stillborn child FIFTEEN YEARS AFTER! some people NEVER leave them. Yes! in TV the characters pass through the Five stages of grief in minutes. and then accept the Death. IN REAL LIFE THIS COULD TAKE YEARS! YEARS! is this normal? no its not normal. thats why we Psychologist exist. we help people pass through the stages. But Arsenal. is not going through Therapy. he is winging it. and the way he does it. is the only way he has know to do it. Through Violence. weither it be Verbal or Fisical. About Lian. Thats Right. Lian harper is in the State her Father imagines her. wounded and mad at him because even tough he is a superhero. he could not save her. Man this Comic is so Basic and easy to read. Ghostly Lian. The True Feelings of the man behind the Arsenal Mask. Again. The hallucinations are not caused by the Drugs. Roy Harper has gone insane. he is having an "episode" OMG people trained to restrain Drug Addicts Failed to Restrain a Superhero? how unrealistic this book is. :P "The allucination" you keep talking about is actually a part of his Id. the part that only wants revenge. the part that is out of control. the part that wants the pain to go away. And yeah. in the end when he Burns the home. he is actually burning his past. his chains. its not that lian cant escape. is that Roy has Burnt everything that matters. (Think about it. like how in FMA they burn his house so that they cant come back.) Roy is doing the same thing. he is burning the things that chained him to his daughter. To End. i can understan the diea behind the comic. They wanted a Foil for JAson. Someone which who he could share his pain. I would have loved a Story with the both of them where they finally can come to terms with their shitty pasts. one where they speak man to man. and decide to advance rather than being stuck in their pasts. ...AND IT WAS RUINED BY 52! I mean. i do like their relationship in the new 52. where the both of them are Friends. heck they are each other´s best friends. But in the End the "Nature" of comics. brought them back to the same place. Their own personal hells where they are forever Fixed in time. where they cant escape no matter what happens. and will always remain brooding idiots.

[@maxmazzotti6651]

14:53 means can’t stop the a train

[@Barbayat79]

Hmm if Reefer Madness wasa comic, would it also haven gotten that award??