Robert Bjork. The Importance of Forgetting in Learning.

Check out Robert Bjork's video.
• robert bjork - the the...
Timelines:
0:01 Robert Bjork.
0:46 The more we forget, the more we learn.
2:00 Robert Bjork’s theory in my experience.
3:01 Varying of context.
5:05 Testing.
5:50 Learning is increasingly independent.
7:35 German declension table learning and forgetting.
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[@jfan3689]

I completely agree with everything in this video. The words I can say and use best in other languages are the ones I just learned naturally.

[@milanpaudel9624]

babies are also taught language, they didn't just learn from exposure to it. watch any kid shows you will see parents teaching vocab to their children , not just once but repeatedly

[@Earth098]

This is such a good advice!! In my experience this method works brilliantly well.

[@valentina_fantasy]

MANY THANKS! VERY USEFUL, INSPIRING AND MOTIVATING!

[@Xeon1791]

learned french for 3-4 month .. stopped for other 4 month .. now im re-learning .. i feel content of my level that i was not aware of !

[@uritonkonthoujam8271]

Thanks, Steve. Your video are always informative.I like to seeing and listening all.

[@dailyfrench]

So much videos of excellent quality, thanks for sharing your insight

[@galloverde9481]

Questo video è incoraggiante, spesso mi sento un cretino quando ritrovo una parola già letta altre quattro o cinque volte ma di cui non riesco a ricordare il significato. Da oggi proverò meno sensi di colpa ;-)

[@aleksanderroz6281]

lingq is the best way to learn. Thank you Steve for everithing what you've doon for those who wans to study effortlessly:)

[@Thelinguist]

Glad you are enjoying it and thanks.

[@simonobrien1958]

If you look up a word (or aspect of grammar) and forget It and look up and forget It could act like spaced repetition which will eventually store in your long term memory. Or maybe when you encountered It the first few times your brain was not at the right stage to acquire It. Perhaps when It was taken in at a later stage there was a stronger foundation in the language on which to store It on. I think what you say about different contexts works on a very similar principal. Different contexts provide much stronger foundations, which will make converting the word or grammar move into long term storage easy and fluid. The 'schooling' method of grammar instruction and cramming for tests is clearly a flawed process but there is no reason why learners can't learn in natural ways outside the class. If you are serious about It you will be able to spend time progressing using the methods that help you and using classes as reinforcement.

[@AtomikNY]

Steve, you got me thinking: how much is our feeling of progress correlated with our actual progress? It can feel like a big accomplishment when we learn to easily retrieve a relatively small amount of information, but I think it's clear that most learning is entirely unconscious, so maybe it's not such a good idea to gauge your progress on how your conscious mind feels about it. I can think of other progress indicators that might be more indicative of how the whole network is settling in your brain (e.g. when I understand wordplay, when I unthinkingly use a grammar rule that was confusing to me before, or when I can anticipate the words that somebody is about to say).

[@Thelinguist]

I feel a sense of achievement as I understand more.

[@simonobrien1958]

'how the whole network is settling in your brain' > I think that is a good way to put It.. You will pass through stages in how your brain processes everything.. This general mental progression is a better gauge than a better score on a test.. Albeit a better score on a test likely means you have imporved in some way

[@json093]

I agree with you

[@truthseeker508]

Congratulations Steve, but, is it possible to get any links to the sites you use to learn new languages. I see you have mentioned many times you use podcasts, texts etc to get into your new languages, would you be kind to provide any sources? Maybe its just me but its hard when you start to learn a new language and you have no idea or clue about what is it about! How can I start reading or listening if I know barely a bunch of words!?

[@JoachimderZweite]

As you learn something new you build a new synapse. As you learn a language you build countless synapses. When you stop and later revisit you are travelling down already laid synapses while building new related ones. This is the biology of if.

[@tjchee2426]

Hi Steve, I enjoy watching your videos on language learning tips. You often mentioned the importance of listening & reading i.e. vital amounts of passive input. I was wondering whether there are any specific tips or tricks come languages without a written system? I've often often reading as a useful crutch when listening skills in the target language. But with spoken languages, this is almost no longer an option.

[@ThisIsNoise17]

Isn't what you're saying here the importance of "re-exposure", which runs right along all these other methods, rather than of "forgetting". You can cram something in that that quick yet limited way, and then expose yourself to that grammar feature or word again without having to forget that feature.

[@jakehandler5859]

Hey Steve, I'm wondering what type of Chinese you learned to read in. Did you learn to read in traditional or simplified?

[@Thelinguist]

Both

[@MarkBH70]

I recommend the Foreign Service Institute website. Works for me!

[@robnoftz]

Mr. Bjork's video 'Input Less, Output More" seems to have some relevance to language learning.

[@Thelinguist]

Yes but in his case he is referring to learning facts, like a history text. Reading a text over and over is not as effective as doing an assignment on it. Vocabulary acquisition in languages is different. Each new context is a new learning environment. Therefore we need to move on to new and more challenging material all the time. And of course at some point we need to increase our output, but , in my view, only when we have enough vocabulary and sufficient level of understanding of the language.

[@gamescape2798]

You put your 2nd timestamp in the description backwards. In the video, you say," the more we forget, the more we learn," however, in the description, you put," the more we learn, the more we forget."

[@Thelinguist]

Thanks. Changed.

[@cophnia61]

I wonder if all those things apply to the same extent to kanji related languages. As for english, I'm very bad at output (I never write or speak english except for a bunch of comments like this) but in input I can understand it almost like my first language. When I started I wanted to read some books about jewish mysticism which exsist only in english, so armed with a vocabulary I started reading them and so I learned to understand written english. But with japanese, which I'm learning now, you must remember two things, pronunciation like in every other language, and kanji compounds. Do you think the same strategy works for japanese? Maybe in addition to other methods I'm already using (anki, remembering the kanji, basic texts like genki etc..). For example, I might already know what がくせい means, but when I encounter this word written in kanji I might not recognize it (obviusly this is not true for this particular word, it's only an example :) ). Do you think forgetting a kanji compound for a word you already know and looking for it multiple times in a vocabulary will take care of itself? And what for less frequent compounds, of those you will encounter sporadically? As regarding Lingq I'm trying it and I find it perfect for this method of learning, I wish I had known it before!

[@juredddd]

I am also learning Japanese and I will tell you my method of learning kanji. Maybe I'll be able to help you. First of all I never learn kanji by themselves, I always learn them with the new vocabulary. I am learning kanji this way because when ever I learn anything out of the context I feel like I am wasting my time and not learning anything. Okay you do learn that way but there are so many kanjis used in many different context so learning kanji in one context will only help you to understand it in that particular context. For example counter words. Those words are used to express amount and the catch here is when those words are used alone they mean one thing, but when they are used as a counters (with numbers) they mean something completely different. So don't force kanji into your brain learn it like a part of vocabulary and that way when ever you see known word written in kanji or hiragana you will know it. Well all that being said, it is true that you are doubling your job by learning new kanji with every new word but this is how Japanese works and also this method will help you in a long run. I really hope I was able to help you.

[@cophnia61]

***** Thank you for you reply! Very useful! Also I do think this is the best method. I agree with you in regard of context, I tried to give a try to vocabulary lists but it's too much unnatural and in some way a sort of "forcing" (I don't know if you can say this in english xD ). Also if a vocabulary list has sentences, they are even so out of context. Instead if I read a word in a true context, that is something I'm interested in, then I learn it more easily. But I still fear of forgetting, particularly kanji compounds I don't see too often. The problem is not kanji by themselves, but compounds: how can I manage to remember what kanjis form a particular word? Maybe now I do remember かわいい is written 可愛い, but if I don't encounter it for many months, am I going to forget it? Obviously kawaii is only example, I'm reffering to words like "Mellifluous" in english. It's the first time I read it but I'm sure I'm not going do forget it. But if I was to remember also a kanji compound for a word like that? I'm being paranoic? SORRY TO BOTHER YOU WITH MY SILLY DOUBTS :/

[@juredddd]

coph nia You really don't have to worry about remembering or forgetting in that matter. You just have to keep pushing forward and eventually the words who seemed to you like an "alien" would become natural to you. work hard and let the time do the rest and that is all there is to it. Just remember Japanese is written with kanji and not with hiragana alone or even worse roumaji. If you can read kanji you can read scripts in hiragana or roumaji any time but not the other way around.

[@Thelinguist]

You just have to keep on listening and reading. Massive input will win out in the end. You should also give LingQ a try. Above all, don't worry about what you forget. Forgetting is good!

[@cophnia61]

***** thank you juredddd, now I'm more reassured! Then I'll do so, I'm trying Lingq and I think it will reveal itself very useful to me! :D

[@krayg100]

Hello, Steve! What do you think of listening to the stuff you don't understand just to spend time with the language, when you don't feel like studying? (i.e. listening to audiobooks when you are a beginner)

[@Thelinguist]

I don't do it. I prefer listening to things I have a chance of understanding.

[@bluestreak711]

Steve, do you have any advice for learning Latin? Since it is a dead language it has some challenges to face in learning. I am starting off by going through a learning series on youtube which adds to the grammar and declension table little by little which is going slow. Since there are no native speakers, I am not able to jump in and try to speak it like I usually like to do.

[@Thelinguist]

We have Latin at LingQ, lessons with audio. Give it a try.

[@Thelinguist]

Steve Kaufmann - lingosteve We might even have at least one member who will speak to you in Latin, Michele from Italy.

[@bluestreak711]

I read the pricing list and I am wondering whether or not the free membership is only a trial. Will it eventually run out? I would not be able to afford a monthly fee and am wondering what I am looking to have with the free account. Could you shed some light on that please?

[@Thelinguist]

You can access all of the content, download it etc. free of charge. For much of the key learning functionality and to talk to Michele, who does offer lessons in Latin, BTW, you will have to pay.

[@bluestreak711]

I have one more question for now and then I will try not to bother you anymore for a while. Do they offer any learning material for American Sign Language? If so, I would consider it a good investment when I get the funds. I have learned Spanish to a good level and I am now looking at learning both Latin and ASL.. Have you ever thought about learning ASL? Even if you have no interest, I would like to hear the approach you would take to learn. I notice that you like to do a lot of reading and listening exercises, but ASL is a bit different in that aspect. By the way, I really enjoy your videos. Keep up the good work. Thank you for your time.

[@zane98zane]

Are you considering learning Dutch? I think that would be great? What do you think of the language and culture?

[@TommyTube01]

I think he skipped Dutch because it doesn't challenge him

[@zane98zane]

Tom van Oosten How would that work? He's learning Ukrainian and he already speaks Russian, that's not very challenging?

[@mowgli123456789]

What about doing something like Spaced Repetition System reps so you never actually get to the point of forgetting? Is this person actually saying its better to forget first? Or just stating that the pattern he has recorded is that people learn, forget, retrieve and then learn?

[@MaciejProsowski]

Doing SRS, you do forget stuff. IIRC, at any given point you're expected to remember only 90% of the deck in Anki or Supermemo on default settings (but of course, since you're being tested mainly on the ones most difficult to recall, the correct answer ratio is lower).

[@Thelinguist]

Maciej Prosowski I don't like doing a lot of SRS. I don't think we learn well, and the sheer number of words that I learn could not be done on an SRS system. I typically save over 500 words a day in my reading, in constantly changing and interesting contexts. I would not like to have spend all day on Anki.

[@d7mee653]

Hello Steven, I believe you're the best person can help me to learn English. I used to study at McGill School and before I came to study there my language was really bad. I can say that I learned a lot. However, according to my knowledge, to study any language in academic way it doesn't make your speaking or listening good. Therefor, what do you suggest for me to improve these skills.Also, it's hard for me to find good books or novels to read. another problem is that when I read anything I cannot follow the subject. Thanks,

[@simonobrien1958]

I'd like to see more vids on politics too.

[@Pakanahymni]

I don't find declension tables confusing or hard to memorize, but everyone learns differently.

[@ThisIsNoise17]

Same thing here. I love learning conjugation and declension tables from the beginning. I think the key to learning them in the long run is simply practice.

[@JariSatta]

Toinen suomea puhuva / kirjoittava ? Nimimerkistä päätellen.

[@Pakanahymni]

***** Kyllä vain, vaikka itse et ole nimimerkistä päätellen suomalainen :D

[@LobaevSniperRifle]

Why did you stop to shoot political videos?

[@Thelinguist]

It just stirs up the a lot of prejudiced comments about Fascist in Kiev and the like. But I might yet do another one.

[@gammondog]

Steve Kaufmann - lingosteve Don't let a few pin heads put you off. Those videos were some of the best on youtube concerning the crisis in Ukraine.