Rocket Espresso Machines Live Review: R58, Appartamento, Evolutione R and Type V

Live extended review of Rocket Espresso machines: R58, Appartamento, Giotto and Mozzafiato in Evoluzione R and Type V versions. See inside all the machines and learn how they operate as machine expert Todd and Marc from Whole Latte Love take you for an in-depth look at Rocket Espresso machines.
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[@marshallgoldberg8376]

Fantastic video! I loved all the details, the walk-through of the interiors, and your enthusiasm. Thank you so much for producing this.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@jackkennedy_1963]

You've got a great voice, Marc. You sound like you were a pro disc jockey in a past life.

[@carlossanchez8534]

Is there a reason the copper boiler in the apartemento, isn't insallated? Should it be? Can one insallate the boiler if we wanted it insallated?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Carlos, It should be possible to insulate but it might change the temperature balance of the system. Boiler insulation is more common in machines than it was a few years ago but not every machine has insulated boilers. Marc

[@carlossanchez8534]

@@Wholelattelovepage so not a necessary step to take? Does it mean that the Rocket casing would just feel hotter to the touch, meaning have to be careful when moving it or brushing up against it?

[@jkwttrs]

I just got my Appartamento today. It is very well built. The main reason I bought this is how easy the maintenance is. I am glad they don't put all the display crap on the front of these machines it would just ruin the classic look of them. Thanks for your videos.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi j, Awesome! You are welcome for the videos and thank you for commenting with your opinions! Marc

[@jrvox2004]

Thanks for the great video. It’s good to learn so much in one video. Question : for a brand new Rocket appartamento , the boiler pressure gauge never reach to 1bar.. will this affect the taste of coffee or I should have the pressure stat adjust ? Thanks

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Jimmy, In my experience ~1bar is what you should get out of the box. You could adjust the pressurestat to increase a little just be aware that will increase your brew temp as well. Marc

[@jrvox2004]

@@Wholelattelovepage thanks Marc ! Which one is more critical for the taste ? pressure or temp ?

[@carolynfowler3133]

If using the reservoir on the R58 can one use tap water or should it be filtered in some manner?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi CF, Using straight tap water depends on the hardness level (mineral content) of your tap water. If your tap water is low in minerals (soft) Then it may be okay to use. If at all in doubt we recommend filtering water to reduce calcium which will prevent internal scale formation. BWT has 2 filter options for reservoir fed machines like the R58. Both use patented ion-exchange technology to replace calcium with magnesium and prevent scale. The BWT Bestsave is a pad filter which drops in the reservoir: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-bestsave-s-anti-scale-filter The BWT Penguin Pitcher uses the same technology and makes great drinking water as well: www.wholelattelove.com/products/bwt-penguin-2-7-l-water-pitcher Marc

[@jwdawso]

Hey Marc - great video! I see why you taught us about flow control recently the type of pump - vibration vs rotary - have different flow control characteristics. It seem like the vibration is best for fruity, and rotary for chocolates. In other words, a flow control valve is needed for either type of pump to get the best taste from either type. My head is spinning...

[@rctheman5758]

Hello WLL!, direct water line connection isnt an option for me right now but can i use a remote tank id say a remote 3 gallon water tank and just stick the stainless steel hose in it?.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi R, Thanks for the question. That usually works with machines which have rotary pumps. It may help to prime via reservoir first. But we do use a remote tank on plumbed machines all the time. Marc

[@rctheman5758]

@@Wholelattelovepage thanks marc thats what i did with my expobar office lever plus no problem at all. Im in the market of new machine and rocket machines are a beaut!

[@rob99sp]

I noticed a round red sticker on the label of some boxes, green sticker on some others, no sticker on most... mine has a red sticker on the outer box label and on the inner accessory box. What do these colour stickers reference?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Rob, I'll see if I can find out. My guess is they're attached at the production facility in Milan - maybe to indicate who packed or checked the box. Marc

[@rob99sp]

@@Wholelattelovepage Thanks Marc. Yea, it's definitely from the factory as the inner box also has a sticker adhered. They wouldn't symbolize refurbished units or anything, would they?

[@rainbow2011x]

Hi Marc, nice explaination there, want to ask if i using BWT bestmax in giotto rotary, do i still need doing regular maintenance ? (2-3 year as per i know) because what i understand is this maintenance about to descaling the machine, since using BWT will prevent that scale issue, so i thing maybe maintenance is no needed if using the BWT.. kindly help to confirm with this, Thanks Marc 🙏🏻

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi vk, Thanks for the question. If you use the BWT Bestmax Premium as directed scale will not form in the machine. This assumes your input water is safe to drink and does not have odd issues like high chloride levels. So long as your there, no descaling needed. Marc

[@rainbow2011x]

Whole Latte Love thanks for the response Marc 👍

[@mohammedhussein8173]

Thanks for your efforts on this video, U gave us a great Infos. I wish I get one in the future.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi MH, You are welcome and many thanks for the comment! Marc

[@stephenstephen74]

Sir , compare between rotary and vibrate, which extract bitter coffee?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey stephen, Great question without a definitive answer. Much depends on the coffee used and other variables like grind size. Rotary pump machines without flow control have a higher potential flow rate of ~11g/s vs. ~8g/s for typical vibration pump machine. Rotary pumps build up pressure/flow faster. How that translates into better coffee depends on those other variables. IME beans that are darker, blended and/or older tend to produce better results with higher flow rates while lighter roasts, specialty and very fresh coffees respond well to lower flow rates. Many E61 group machines of both pump types are available with flow control of the group which levels the capabilities to some extent. Something else to consider in usage is most rotary pump machines are plumbable direct to waterline while most vib pumps are not. Marc

[@stephenstephen74]

@@Wholelattelovepage sir, if we use the same Bean, the same grinder , and the same grinder size, which result bitter taste from two of them?

[@00011theman]

Isn't this an old video?

[@ashkankm1263]

Hi Marc, big fan of you from Amsterdam here. Questions 1, I just bought the Rocket evo R and the Baratza 270wi and i used my fresh coffee beans for a week, very happy with it but.. After a week the got sour in taste. So what are your recommendations on it? Do i have to change my grind or use the PID on the Rocket to change the temperature? I mean do i get the same good taste if i change the grind size or brew temp? Questions 2, Do you guys have tested the Porta via of Rocket? Question 3, Did you test the Force tamper? Love you brother and always remember without coffee nothing is possible haha.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi AK, Thanks for the kind comments and questions! Evo R plus 270wi is a nice setup! Flavors going sour generally indicate an under-extraction. Typical fixes for that are: grind finer, increase coffee dose. What kind of coffee are you using and what roast level? If a single origin in a medium or lighter roast you might try increasing brew temp. Single origin coffee depend on freshness more than bean blends and can change quite a bit as they off-gas in the first couple of weeks following roasting. Here's a video which covers basic concepts of flavor manipulation: kzbin.info/www/bejne/mYLEhWSdjM-bf80 We do have a Porta Via setup in house. It's been in our Tech Support/CS offices for a month or so. First saw one last April at SCA Expo in Seattle. Also visited Rocket in Italy end of July. Andrew Meo told me the story of the machine. Basically he made it for himself as "portable" machine to take on holiday. He then decided to make it available as a product. I have not tested the Force tamper. For a long time I did use an Espro calibrated tamper which is a similar concept. A few months back I started using a leveler and have not looked back. I love the consistency of a leveler - it's really improved my shots as judged by observing naked extractions. I'm using The Jack: www.wholelattelove.com/asso-coffee-the-jack-leveler-in-blue Thanks a whole latte for the love! Marc

[@ashkankm1263]

Whole Latte Love Dear Marc, Love you brother because you motivate me to fight the battle in finding the right grind temp and ec.... haha Its really hard for a beginner because you have to dump alot of coffee away in order to learn how to pull a nice balanced shot of espresso. Its gonna be sour or bitter each time. Wel i used fresh roasted bean. Info: BRASIL YELLOW BOURBON Brazilië, São Sebastião da Grama Fazenda Rainha 1100-1500 meter Pulped Natural Medium Roast 100% Arabica - Yellow Bourbon By watching your video i realized one big mistake what i made and that is brewing on 194.72 F Any more suggestions for me to try? I used your advice for the grinder and also after watching your review on the Rocket evo R i decided to buy one. And i am very happy with the product!! Thank all you for helping us out! I had another question in general about coffee beans that are not fresh. Is there a way to play with variables on brew temp or grind size to pull a decent shot with a bean that is not fresh? The ones that you just buy everywhere in a grocery store? I mean for a good taste? And there are also beans like the Lavazza - Super Crema how fresh are these and how is the taste? Sour? Bitter?

[@oliverwhite30]

I’ve learned a lot. Thanks

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Glad to hear it! Marc

[@francispare1310]

Hope to get a response even if it's an older video... what I'm wondering is, if making 4/5 coffees a day, is the investment worth it for a rotary pump versus a vibration pump for the Giotto ? I don't have the possibility to plumb the machine and the noise doesn't bother me... the price difference is big and replacing a vibration pump, if it breaks, doesn't cost a fortune

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi FP, Thanks for the question. Yes, older videos do get responses! Sorry this one is a little late been on vacation and offline for a week. It does come down to personal preference. Beyond plumbabilty, noise and reliability the key difference between vib and rotary pump is flow rate. Max flow rate on vib pumps is ~8g/s while rotary is 11g/s. Does that flow rate difference make a difference? Hard to say conclusively. I can say for darker roast or less than fresh coffee I feel I get better shots when hitting the coffee puck harder initially which a rotary pump does. Marc

[@simonheddle-baker1388]

Superb video. Great insights. Are you doing a review of the cronometro soon?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi simon, Thanks for the comment and question. As far as I know the only change is the addition of a shot timer when compared to existing Evo R and Type V Mozzafiato and Giotto models. Marc

[@cathyazzopardi8781]

Can any of the machines be turned on via a timer? Love to wake up with a machine hot and ready to go. Thanks

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Cathy, Yes many people do that. Machines with a mechanical power switch can be turned on by a timer. Just be sure the timer switch has a power rating that's higher than the machine. Marc

[@davidfreeburn8592]

The guy in the black shirt is hollywood level narration!!! Respect that! Just saying.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hey david, Marc here (guy in black shirt) from Whole Latte Love - thanks for the comment. Before getting into coffee about a decade ago I spent many years doing VO work for television. Guess all that practice paid off!

[@distlledbrewedreviewed]

Great video, interesting machines.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi HSR, Thanks for the comment! Marc

[@ChrisPowell-MerleApAmber]

Thanks, guys!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Chris, You are welcome and thanks for taking a moment to leave a comment! Marc

[@gregd255]

Hi, why do I have to let the machine sit overnight before using it for the first time?

[@gregd255]

Sorry to be more precise it’s the R58

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Sit overnight? Don't think we said that. On first use I'd flush water through boilers but that's about it. Marc

[@gregd255]

I’m sorry not you guys, I got an email from the place I bought it from who says that.. and I don’t understand what the reason could be.. they said it’s like a fridge and it’s better but didn’t give me a legitimate answer so I thought you guys could’ve known why

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Greg D lol! I’ve started up my fair share of R58s and 100s of other semi-autos and never let them sit or had a manufacturer tell me to. Can’t think of a reason why you’d need to unless maybe shipped in freezing conditions. Definitely don’t have refrigerant in them so...

[@Latuniux]

Very helpful, thank you so much! I will wait for the R58 to come out with a Shot timer aswell soon, as seen at the Host Milano 2019 and then get that one! Edit: If you guys have and release dates on that please let me know because I can't wait!

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi L, Thanks dor the kind comment - you are welcome! At this point I do not have a release date for Chronometro R58. Marc

[@jamesalbertflores7517]

With all things considered, functionality, technology, build, durability, serviceability, etcetera... Which should I choose? Rocket versus Profitec

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi James, Thanks for the question. Both Rocket and Profitec make excellent machines. If you have particular models you are considering I'd be happy to give my opinions on those. In general for most people who go with Rocket Espresso machines it's about the styling - no mistaking a Rocket! On the other hand, I give a slight edge to Profitec in design, build and serviceability. Functionality determinations depend on particular model. Marc

[@jamesalbertflores7517]

@@Wholelattelovepagethanks for the insights. I've narrowed it down between the Profitec Pro 500 and the Rocket Mozzafiato Type V.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi James, Both are excellent PID HX boiler machines. Here's a link to a side by side spec comparison: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/compare?products=MTU0NTk4MjE4MTQzNSwxNTQ1OTkzNjUwMjM1 I've personally Scace tested both machines and they are very accurate with brew temps thanks to the PID and good design of the E61 thermo-siphon system. A couple of thoughts on things... Pro 500 PID uses a stainless steel mushroom valve (big improvement over chrome plated mushroom valves which eventually flake off the plating) Rocket uses ceramic mushroom so no flaking there either. I have a slight preference for the internal design of the Pro 500. Slightly less complex than the Rocket's. Pro 500 has a stainless steel boiler while the Rocket uses copper with brass end plates. I have no preference to particular boiler materials. Pro 500 is 1400 watts while the Mozzafiatto is 1200. Most users would not see a difference in the 200 watts. It's a tough choice. Think it comes down to style - which one you'd like to see on your counter for many days to come. Hope that helps. Marc

[@jamesalbertflores7517]

@@Wholelattelovepage amazing amazing reply. I really appreciate it. Will let you know what I'll choose eventually. Your points are definitely helpful. 😊😊😊

[@dylanthedyslexicvillain4294]

Great video so informative, which do you think is a better choice the rocket appartamento or the expobar Office leva they seem like very similar machines but the expobar is quite a bit cheaper I would really love to know your opinion on this thank you. I really want to upgrade to a more manual machine I have a Brevell Oracle which I love but I want to get more accuracy and be a bit more geeky lol, allso is the coffee Machine on the Oracle as good quality as the other two meaning would it be a better choice to get A separate Grinder to give me more control as this would be a much cheaper option, I was just wondering because the Oracle is a dual boiler PID ?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Dylan glad to hear you found the video useful. Thank you for your comment and question. The Office Lever was a fine value but Expobar has stopped manufacturing machines under the Expobar name after being acquired by another company. You may find a few still available but we sold the last of our stock of l Office Levers a couple of weeks ago. The Appartamento is a good machine. If considering it also have a look at the Profitec Pro 500 PID. It's about the same price (currently $50 more than the Appartamento) but has much better temp stability with the PID. Also IMO build quality is a little better under the hood of the Pro 500 although some buyers are willing to give on that for the brand look of Rocket machines. Here's a link to a spec comparison between the Pro 500 PID and the Appartamento: www.wholelattelove.com/pages/compare?products=MTU0NTk5MzY1MDIzNSwxNTQ2MDQwNTA4NDc1 If you want to take your espresso to the next level I highly recommend a separate grinder. Generally accepted in espresso world that once you get to a certain level of machine the grind quality and ability to fine tune grind size are more important to making excellent espresso than the machine. Hope that helps! Let me know if you have anymore questions. Marc

[@dylanthedyslexicvillain4294]

Whole Latte Love thank you for the reply and link I certainly will check out the profitec 500 i love those Machines also, The grinder I was thinking of getting was the Niche zero what is your opinion on this Grinder? would I be better getting a more commercial style Grinder maybe like the super jolly?

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Dylan, I have not used the Niche grinder so I do not have an opinion. For single dosing at a lower price point take a look at the Baratza Sette 270. It's a straight thru conical burr grinder as well with less than .5g retention (usually far less): www.wholelattelove.com/products/baratza-sette-270-conical-burr-grinder I'm not a big fan of Mazzer grinders. Their design has not changed much over the past decade. In most Mazzer grinders the threads controlling grind size adjustment are not very well sealed from the grinding chamber. The threads clog with coffee dust and oils making adjustment jumpy. As far as I know the Super Jolly is only available as a dosing grinder. It grinds into a holding chamber and then you pull a lever to dose a portafilter - not a fan of those either. Marc

[@dylanthedyslexicvillain4294]

Whole Latte Love thank you marc I haven’t seen that one before that looks very interesting it’s a lovely design thank you might be my next Grinder

[@Wholelattelovepage]

My pleasure! The Sette 270 is a great choice for lower volume home use. Here's my video comparing the 3 versions of the Sette grinder. If serious about espresso go with either the 270 or 270Wi: kzbin.info/www/bejne/fKvLpaqooqdgbJI Marc

[@zermomia]

One day i Will get the courage to buy one.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi zermonia, Why the need for courage?

[@zermomia]

@@Wholelattelovepage my goal is a Profitec but need a courage to switch my mind to the sexy Rocket.

[@73smoo]

The Giotto suits well for goths because of its coffin like shape ;-)

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Tim, Thanks for the comment. I never thought of it like that, but now that you mention it... Marc

[@Aldocello1]

Marc is not fond of the Rocket branding everywhere and he lets it be known in his own way every Rocket review ...lol

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi LLL, Thanks for the comment. Not exactly true in fact we just choose 2 Rocket machines as winners in best brand design as seen in this video: kzbin.info/www/bejne/gqe4eZWffs6DY8U Marc

[@73smoo]

PID in heatexchanger machines is not needed at all, a good old thermostat is fine. But you should go for a dualboiler anyway, especially if you go for a machine with water reservoir. On HX machines you have to flush much to much boiling water out of the machine after not using it for some time. And you never know what the brew temperature is like. HX is fine for cafes when the machine is constantly in use. This is the use this technology is made for.

[@Wholelattelovepage]

Hi Tim, Thanks for the comment. Newer HX machines with PID are very near dual boiler machines in regards to brew water temperature accuracy out of the group. I've Scace tested the Profitec Pro 500 PID, Rocket Evo R and Type V machines and been stunned just how good they are. With those machines no cooling flush is needed prior to brewing. HX machines with the good old thermostats (actually pressurestats) may have in boiler temp swings of 10F as the pressurestat cycles on/off. In heavy use HX machines can see brew temps creep up as the group gets repeated shots of over temp water. Marc