Rolex Submariner vs Grand Seiko SBGA229 | Watchfinder & Co.

So, you want a Rolex Submariner. You’ve got your £6,550, and you’re out the door on the way to the shop-but when you get there, you’re told there’s a waiting list. Yet out of the corner of your eye, you see something else, the Grand Seiko Sport SBGA229. Here’s the dilemma: do you stick, and wait for the Submariner, or twist and buy the Grand Seiko instead?
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[@watchfinder]

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[@bighands69]

When I am on my daily 200 meter dive I always wished I had a watch that would allow me to go that extra 100 meters.

[@madmartigan8774]

This comment should most certainly have more likes. My thoughts exactly when he brought that up.

[@balajay159]

Lol!

[@gwkgb8474]

Yeah exactly right I’ve got the same issue

[@banuprakashCA]

😂🤣😂🤣

[@crespohuerta]

Lol

[@7s29]

The smooth sweeping seconds hand of the GS is mind blowing.

[@aruncv1373]

7s29 that is a thing of beauty. It hypnotises you.

[@mystic48209]

Buttery smooth sweep. You got to give those devils their due. Respect.

[@muhammadikmalfitribinghaza7061]

It's spring drive technology by japanese best brand.

[@thequantaleaper]

That wonderful 10bps.

[@r.o.1330]

....agree with ikea guy. I have an electric wall clock in my garage that has accomplished this, "mind blowing" task for the last 30 years.

[@pauljones2833]

What struck me about the Grand Seiko is the seamless movement of the second hand. Simply amazing.

[@MRD0889]

That's the first thing that got my attention. Just a smooth sweep around the dial 😍

[@willsteele9249]

yea man!

[@nicolasalonso3012]

Like any of kitchens battery wall clocks.

[@3hutp]

To be honest, it looks kinda scary to me...

[@aruncv1373]

It’s like art. So surgical, yet so graceful. Hypnotic.

[@charlesmiller6281]

I bought the SBGA229 (Limited Edition) five years ago, because seeing in person its not even close. The Rolex in comparison is crude and unfinished, like something I imagine a Grand Seiko trainee might turn in- just before getting kicked out of the program. The details you pointed out are only the beginning. Look close at the date window: the inside edge is a mirror polish- you can see the date reflected in it! The case lugs and bracelet links are polished and satin, but the line between the two is not on the edge where it would be easy but just beyond where it looks much better but must be near impossible to do to such a degree of perfection. You knock the bracelet, which on the Rolex does look more substantial- except that it looks like an ordinary bracelet while the GS so seamlessly blends into the case its as if its all one piece. Even after 5 years the fit is so perfect looking at it right now I'm hard pressed to say what is bracelet and what is case. You didn't even mention the power reserve, something that seems superfluous- until you actually have it and then realize how useful it is to know. In 5 years it still has a full three days power reserve. No winder here, and it can still sit in a case for a three day weekend no problem. Accuracy is more like .5 sec/day, and plenty are reportedly one second per week. The Rolex second hand looks smooth mostly because of its stubby short length. Even so, notice Rolex shortens it to not even reach as far as the marks on the dial? Lame. The second marks on the GS aren't even on the flat part of the dial, but on the upwards sloping ring around it- and the second hand extends all the way to the very edge, accentuating its hypnotically ultra-smooth gliding movement. The lume after 5 years is so great its glow is clearly visible even in demanding situations like when going into a parking garage where your eyes haven't adjusted to the darkness yet. Oh, and its no ordinary greenish glow either but a beautiful hue, you captured really well in the video. 7:42 Yes it looks that good in real life! This is all how it looks. There's something about the finish, the fit, that makes it even feel special. Rolex clasp could be any other clasp. Fasten the GS, feel its silky smoothness, its a whole other world. Like the bezel, oily smooth yet precise, feels and sounds almost too good to be true. Rolex? Take away the extra clicks and it could be my Omega. I could go on and on. In the years since it has been worn many times into jewelry stores and every time makes me feel like everything else is costume jewelry. But really, the reason I bought mine was even better than all of that. It was simply that when I took it off my wrist to hand it back and walked out of the store without it I felt this terrible sense of loss. Well, no more. Wear it just about every day. For five years. Resale? Right. Like I would ever sell it.

[@deejay1534]

People who bash on GS are people who've never handled one in person. Rolex created the standard, but GS is setting it higher. I always laugh when people make a subjective point like "the GS looks too chunky". And resale, if all you care about in a watch is it's resale value then you aren't a true watch enthusiast. If resale value is the only resason you buy a watch, you're not an enthusiast, you're nothing more than a day-trader for watches.

[@ShaunKVideos]

@@deejay1534, I own a Rolex Datejust 41 and I have handled a GS before at an authorized retailer. The GS and especially it’s clasp feel tinny and unsubstantial compared to the perfectly built Rolex and their solid clasps. Furthermore, at the end of the day ... it’s still a Seiko. A beefed up Seiko but nevertheless, a Seiko.

[@louisbrandt5386]

Drone Master - is that your argument is it - “clasp” and “brand name”? Wow, sounds like you really know your stuff and you own a Datejust 41, wowzers you must be a real Titan in the world luxury/haute horology! 🐑

[@Ericwseed]

@@louisbrandt5386 don't bash on Drone Master to harshly, his opinion is out of inexperience. I've met many just like him who follow the trends; Ferrari is the best car, Armani is the best suit, California is the best place to live yadda yadda. If the grand Seiko had as much brand recognition as Rolex it would have as much sex appeal and in turn as much desire.

[@louisbrandt5386]

@Eric Seed - fair point.

[@logan527]

the immaculate sweep from the spring drive shown from 2:54 to 3:06 is just amazing! what a great shot!

[@tobyt684]

don't worry...that sweep is easy to find in battery-operated wall clocks. Readily available.

[@rousseau327]

@@tobyt684 Why so bitter? What makes this movement amazing is the fact that it ISN'T battery operated, and it's still mechanically powered, electrically moderated movement. Not the purest form of mechanical watches, but great engineering, and wholly different from battery operated AND purely mech watches.

[@hughcamp2730]

Lexus over the Saab -- if you know what I'm meaning. A lot of hand finishing on the GS and there's no 900% mark-up like on Rolex. Have friends that complain about their Rolex's that stopped working after two years.

[@maxcooke3142]

@@tobyt684 But is it easy to find in a watch? Nope. The closest thing is the Bulova accutron/precisionist movement, but not everyone likes the design of bulova watches, and it's still not as smooth as the spring drive. And since you brought up how "easy to find" the sweep is, let's not pretend that the Rolex's 4hz is very impressive or hard to find.

[@rousseau327]

@adam ker-lindsay I think that goes without saying, that everything has a trade-off. The Rolex has the 4Hz movement that is nothing special, but is extremely well made and robust along with the rest of the watch - there's a reason why Rolex is now going with 10 year service intervals. With Spring Drive, the recommended service interval is indeed shorter (4 years or so), but the trade off here is 1) the accuracy is only beaten by quartz, 2) the movement is mesmerizing, and 3) people who love innovation would appreciate this technology. As with anything in life, you can't have everything, but I think these trade offs are what make both the Grand Seiko and the Rolex worth collecting.

[@chrisrichardson5462]

I like grand seiko but by aesthetics alone, the Rolex is better looking here to me. But that spring drive is just a thing of beauty.

[@shaf1485h]

The power reserve ruin it for me.

[@leepenney6104]

Gotta agree with that. The GS is too fussy. Half of design is knowing what to leave out or pare back. The sweep on that spring drive is a thing of beauty though.

[@Vlerkies]

I'm on the other side of the fence, just cant stomach the lugs on the Sub and I actually prefer the overall aesthetics of the Seiko.

[@donatopirrod]

@@shaf1485h the power reserve of the grand seiko is about a week.

[@donatopirrod]

Yeah, the aesthetics from this grand seiko isnt the best really. Wierd, considering they have design bases like the skx and turtle or the 62 mas that are extremely nice looking and iconic. They shouldve just based their grand seiko on one of those, with the level of quality and polishing of this one.

[@yermanoh]

just an skx owner passing throught

[@Furby2118]

Honestly, when I see a Rolex it’s nice. But when I see a GS it’s a different level of appreciation. Allows me to feel connected because this is another person who knows watches

[@cwuzii]

So you’re saying if they have a Rolex they don’t know watches?

[@louisbrandt5386]

Cwuzii - I think he is saying those who choose a GS, a brand not known in the mainstream by the hoi polloi but yet extremely high quality will normally know their watches hence their choice over something like a Rolex which, let’s face it. is bought mainly by those who really don’t have a clue and pay way more than it is intrinsically worth because they have narrow horizons and fall easily for the marketing hype.

[@cwuzii]

@@louisbrandt5386 yeah that’s true in many cases but not all. Whilst a lot of people get a Rolex just to have one, there are plenty of owners that know what they’re talking about.

[@Furby2118]

@@cwuzii of course!! It’s just nice to see something different is what I was trying to get at. I work in finance and a lot of clients have Rolex and some know about watches or some say their wife got it for them! Either way Rolex are a beauty haha

[@louisbrandt5386]

@cwuzii - agreed but let’s face it, they are probably an extremely small minority. If we quizzed 100 random Rolex owners about watchmaking I strongly suspect the overwhelming majority would not have a clue, they bought the brand not the watch and sadly that is just one part of the several negative aspects of the stigma associated with wearing or owning one. What do you think you would find if you quizzed a sample of GS owners? True enthusiasts imo and most if not all would know their stuff - people willing to shell out thousands for a watch with little mainstream recognition. Resale and fawning admirers do not come into the equation - it’s the watch, not what they can get for it, not what the ignorant think of them. I for one have more respect for a collection of “watches” than a collection of items people have “suggested” or “advised” they buy or collect. Sadly, what people buy or wear in watches these days is mostly dictated by advertising and dated hand-me-down cliches - most buy Rolex because they know no better and really are not interested in doing the homework. It’s mostly vulgarities such as “look at me” and “look what it’s worth now” that flood into their minds, no real appreciation of the craft at all.

[@supertallflapjackstack6544]

If the grand seiko was 40mm it would be the one to get

[@d3xmeister]

SuperTallFlapJackStack The quoted spec tells you almost nothing. It’s a completely flawed way to measure how a watch would look and wear. I’ve seen 44mm watches that look and wear considerably smaller than 42 ones or even smaller. I did wore a modern Submariner and it wears quite large for a 40mm, no difference really than most 42mm divers. Haven’t seen the GS though but as with all watches, they have to be put on wrist to know how it looks and how it wears, wrist shape also makes quite a difference.

[@loltanios]

@@d3xmeister True to an extent, but with the added thickness of the Grand Seiko and seeing the two on the wrist in the video it's clear the GS is big and bulky compared to the Rolex.

[@PK-mx7nf]

@@d3xmeister The GS has a lug to lug of 51mm. That is massive. It's also thicker etc etc.

[@gianpakasa]

I agree

[@d3xmeister]

P K Lugs shape makes a lot of difference too. Again I have no idea how the GS wears, just talking generally, I wouldn’t dismiss any watch before I see how it wears, been there too many times already. I was amazed about how different watches wear no matter what size they measure. For example, on my quite big wrists (7,8 inch), Steinharts wear very big and quite uncomfortable and weird although the measurements tells me it should wear quite small. Also I have a 42mm watch with 49mm lug width that wears too big, and kinda hags off my wrists, while my Seiko SBDC063 wears beautifully despite measuring quite a bit larger.

[@joelhenderson4450]

Dock the Rolex for that hideous cyclops. If you need to check the date while down at 300 m, you been down too long!

[@jhmsmarttv795]

What a solid argument. LOL! 🤣

[@SA-us6gl]

Beautifully put sir👌

[@yetidh9]

At least it goes to 300m and if you don’t like it, they make a no date. But let’s be honest, not many people dive in these any more.

[@7979dennis]

😂🤣😂👍

[@KYRIACOSKYPRIANOUK]

One of the best comments ever hahaha!

[@titohe2481]

I actually went with the Grand Seiko. I had the same dilemma at the jewelry store but when I put both watches under a magnifying glass it was obvious the attention to detail the Grand Seiko had over the Rolex. It's hard to put it into words but go to a jewelry store and look at both watches under a magnifying glass and you'll see for yourself. Another plus for the Grand Seiko that sold me was how the entire watch is made in house! The Rolex is a great watch but the Grand Seiko is the better watch in the technology and attention to detail aspects.

[@macky181]

What's your opinion now all these years later? I'm looking at this watch but the arrow hand puts me off.

[@titohe2481]

@@macky181 Hands down the Grand Seiko! Get one you'll love it

[@gregbarnes7247]

the finish of this watch is impeccable. same as a samurai sword. rolex is not even close. to finish a samurai sword takes years of practice. it is an art form.

[@NoahBB]

As someone who has both an ND Sub and a GS, it's inarguable that the GS is of higher quality. From the finishing, to the accuracy, to the power reserve, the GS wins. However, I can say that the Sub feels more solid on the wrist (especially the clasp and bracelet), it's easily recognized (important to some people who spend this much on a watch) and it trades for more than you pay. For those reasons I'm interesting in acquiring BOTH more Rolex and GS in the future. They are completely different animals and quite frankly they don't compete for the same buyers.

[@ProfessorPesca]

You are hereby banned from the internet watch community for making a reasoned and balanced comment without irrationally slagging off one brand whilst pretending the other has no faults.

[@Sk3tchPad]

@@ProfessorPesca yeah seriously. I mean obviously the Grand Seiko is superior in every measurable way, and the Rolex is just a boring trinket for trust fund babies who prefer crunchy peanut butter. And if you think otherwise, it’s because you know nothing …this was a joke

[@__silver__]

Heresy! You can't just post a reasonable well thought out respectful comment like this! It's mandatory to throw flame at one or the other lest the YT community will truly fall out of grace as one of the world most intelligent community!

[@Ryan-cv9me]

I, like you, have both of these models and I agree with your statement. My only gripe with the GS is the bezel insert material. I do wish the bezel was ceramic like the submariner. The bezel they used is similar to my SPB051 and scratches if bumped against anything higher in the Moh’s scale. There’s really nothing wrong with the GS clasp, as many people state. No, it’s not as refined as the Sub, but it’s very easy to adjust on wrist. The Rolex movement is incredible given that its a more traditional escapement, but the GS wins in innovation, accuracy and power reserve. All things that are important to me for a watch I use daily.

[@metaleggman18]

It does trade more than you pay, but that's only if you waste time on a wait list. Sure it's a passive wait, but with some people waiting long enough for a new iteration to come out, and with time being money, the value cost is a bit of an issue.

[@zalsentzer]

In a nutshell: Rolex makes a superior bracelet, Grand Seiko makes a superior watch. Sounds about right... Both are stunning and robust. I'll take either one, but I like the under-the-radar coolness of the GS a little more.

[@fukutaichou1903]

The GS sweep cleared my skin

[@aruncv1373]

culota 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@ThespankedoneRidesReviews]

Wow seeing the famous spring drive sweep makes the Rolex look lumpy.

[@karlmadsen3179]

As an owner of a GMT Master II, I would go for the SBGA229 in a heartbeat.

[@wincrasher2007]

as a watch that will give you pleasure and satisfaction, you can't go wrong with the unbelievable precision and quality of the Grand Seiko.

[@wincrasher2007]

but really, the choice is you can actually buy a GS, often at a discount, or you can have no watch at all while you hope and pray you'll get that call to buy a sub - and have to pay premium over MSRP.

[@Bambi851]

I went for the SBGA031. The Rolex just seemed too small for my wrist and the GS feels perfect. BTW, my GS is running at 0.2 seconds a day. Simply stunning watch.

[@aross924]

I am so jealous

[@Dronetothetop]

My GOD 0.2 sec!!!!

[@kenzhi725]

I had a chance to compare the both watch in the same time, and the second hand movement sold me, plus the one I got was sbga231 the titanium version, it's so much lighter and comfortable to wear. Again someone once told me "buy a rolex to impress others, buy a gs to impress myself"

[@aruncv1373]

Ken Zhi true!!!

[@arturgarncarz3631]

Having 10 k to spend and having to sign up for a dumb waiting list... There are better watches for better money than Rolex.

[@creedklw7777]

like?

[@arturgarncarz3631]

@@creedklw7777 IWC Aquatimer, Blancpain Fifty Phantoms, Panerai Submersible, Omega Seamaster 2019, Todor Pelagos. Best thing about those is that you don't to sign up for a dumb waiting list and noone will think these are fakes.

[@wach9191]

@@creedklw7777 Daniel Wellington.

[@creedklw7777]

@@arturgarncarz3631 I don't care about waiting lists because I have good patience and I can wait years to get the exact watch i want. Now i'm lucky because I know alot of people so if I wan't something I will get it without a waitling list.

[@creedklw7777]

@@wach9191 daniel wellington sucks, no offense

[@chinchinche]

It's a good day when watchfinder releases a new video.

[@zes3813]

no suhc thing as good or not

[@jbbrabant]

I’m a huge fan of the GS Spring Drive. It is so well made & so good looking. It is as accurate as a high quality Quartz & yet it’s purely mechanical. In my humble opinion, Rolex is good, very very good but The GS Spring Drive is better. Thanks for a stellar review as usual.

[@MrAhuraMazda]

....except its NOT purely mechanical. It's literally regulated by a quartz crystal. It's a QUARTZ watch. Albeit mechanically powered.

[@jbbrabant]

MrAhuraMazda187 : there is no battery & no stepper motors involved as in a quartz watch. It is powered by a mainspring wound by a counterbalance (rotor) or by hand.

[@jstanovic]

It is the best of both Worlds!

[@MrAhuraMazda]

@@jbbrabant who cares how its powered. I have a hand powered flashlight at home, big deal. What actually keeps the time on a Spring Drive is a QUARTZ crystal. It's NOT mechanical. The very heart of it is quartz.

[@jbbrabant]

MrAhuraMazda187 : Have a good look at the movement. It’s mechanical with a high tech escapement technology. Bye bye pallet fork etc

[@st939]

I have the SBGA229, preferred it over the 231 titanium variant because of its weight and feel when worn. An amazingly well finished watch, a pleasure to look at. The set it and forget it aspect and the almost inexistant service intervals added to its other qualities make it a no-brainer choice essentially. It only has one downside and that is the thickness of the clasp.

[@MidAtlanticTV]

A third option would be the SBGA231 - the titanium makes it super comfortable on wrist.

[@PFNasz]

That was my choice. But I had a submariner already.

[@jrock5830]

Waiting for it to arrive. It is challenging.

[@devinpowers4368]

That Grand Seiko is sexy, yes that sub is legendary but the high markup for just a date window compared to what you get with a Grand Seiko. I'll just walk out with a Grand Seiko.

[@rico200168]

Devin Powers yes but look at the long term you would get your money back years later or lose very little on the Rolex the other one you would lose allot so I would pick the Rolex

[@stefanfreestylez]

@@rico200168 you would lose little now...who to say what tomorrow brings. These are not to be looked at as investments and tbh if you care about a couple thousand you really shouldnt be buying these things. The rolex though is better imo in this case regardless of the resale value. This guy highlighted the weak points of the GS well. Both sick brands and overall i def like GS more but in this case rolex takes the win overall.

[@randychiu1162]

@Csab facts

[@onemoresi]

plus Seiko aren't playing games with consumers meaning you can readily buy one at retail or less adds to the satisfaction.

[@rico200168]

Csab dear sir I was Referring to when or if you hand it down to your kids “ I would never sell any of my Rolex watches but it’s nice knowing that they are going up in Value and Enjoying wearing them so in my eyes it’s the best of both worlds am I right or wrong ?

[@toddalquist3391]

I like the GS but I'm not sure i will ever like the power reserve indicator in that position

[@bibekrai3599]

It might seem awkard bt Japanese read from right to left. Its their culture. I think it present more culture and can be proud of when you wear it

[@didox5092]

The the seconed hand on the GS is just amazing this is art

[@aruncv1373]

didox yes!!! Surgical, yet graceful. Hypnotic!!! It move like juggernaut. It is not stoped by anything other than time itself.

[@erichlawrence4142]

I was deciding between these two recently. I ended up with the submariner because I have smaller wrists and prefer its minimalist dial. Both are great, but I went with the champ.

[@torqueofthedevil8145]

I always pity anyone who buys a Grand Seiko thinking they are getting something as iconic and good as a Rolex.

[@billa.2450]

I have owned four Rolex Submariners over the last 53 years, plus two other Rolex models. My first Sub, bought in 1966 cost $166. Yes, that's right one hundred, sixty six U.S. dollars at Brodnax Jewelers in Memphis, Tenn. I actually used the watch for scuba diving and it worked flawlessly. There were NO fakes in those days. My last Submariner was bought in 1991 and cost about $1500. Today's price of around NINE THOUSAND DOLLARS is a price only driven by greed and envy, and is totally absurd. The price for what you get is ridiculous. The Omega version is as good or better and though still expensive, a lot better buy. So if you think envy and greed are your forte, then shell out the nine grand. But if you want a good, solid, exquisitely made functional diver's watch, The Omega is your watch. I do not dive anymore, and the watch I wear today is a Tissot automatic chronometer, 100 meter depth certified, and it keeps as accurate time as any of the expensive Rolexes I have owned and it cost me less than $500.

[@dominicrusho]

Wow, these are some of the best Invicta homages I’ve ever seen! 😮

[@marcusskyfall]

That GS sweep makes the Roley look clunky 😂

[@EscapePlan97]

Marcus Skyfall the Rolex aesthetics makes the GS look hideous.

[@silphate9836]

@@EscapePlan97 rolex is better from the outside, gs is better from the inside. if u wanna please others, get the rolex. while if u wanna please yourself and care about the art of watch making, get the gs

[@EscapePlan97]

@@silphate9836 a very contradictory Statement you made there. When I look at my watch on my wrist, what do I see? Do I see the inside or the outside of the watch? Thinking before typing would help sometimes. And what doesn't make it better is repeating what others are saying about GS over and over again, about pleasing yourself blablabla. It's starting to become lame. I don't like the looks of GS, so it's pointless to buy one for me.

[@silphate9836]

@@EscapePlan97 good quality rolex replicas look just as good as a rolex. buy that

[@EscapePlan97]

@@silphate9836 oh yes you are right, replicas are exactly the same! Never thought of that. Who needs real things anyways?!

[@dananderson48]

I'd buy the GS. That steady sweep second hand and precision of the product. I'm a bigger guy so 40mm seems small to me. That's the smallest I'd buy.

[@ashez01]

The biggest drawback of GS is its size. 44mm is just too big for a date only complication.

[@Cloxxki]

I think I agree. The Rolex maxi case I actually like, similar to the muscularity of a sporty car's wide stance fenders. It does overcome some of the size I wish it had, but GS may be overdoing it. I have a 42-43 mm Pagani design about to arrive, supposed to be maxi case. I hope that feel balances. From this video I really love the GS. Many of their design are amazing. They seem to do more for the wearer than other brands. Had it been 42-43 mm, wow... To be clear, I consider the Rolex overpriced. But if I could buy two today, I should. Because other people care more than I do and that's how business works.

[@TheMisterTango]

Big watches need to exist though. There are lots of people with large wrists where a more standard sized watch would look dainty on them.

[@JeffreyPhamigo]

+ power reserve indicator

[@mt24Carson]

I agree...if this GS were 40-42mm, this would be a home run. The titanium 031 version is interesting as well. I have tried it on, and while it looks generally good, it is too large for my wrist. Bummer.

[@stockholmpublishings2937]

then biggest drawback of GS is that it's a GS

[@diegobittar7425]

I can´t wait for the Seiko Prospex LX to be on Watchfinder.

[@Michael-Gill]

My titanium 231 averages 5 seconds a month. I admit, the clasp interior (that you can't see when worn) is harsh on the eye, but operating it is intuitive and pure genius in function. The ratchet when tightening is super satisfying and the creamy bezel click will make you smile. It's been a year and I'm so glad I went with the GS. It's an extremely satisfying watch and I didn't even mention the spring drive or the feel of the titanium on the wrist. If you don't buy the GS SBGA because you're worried about having a "Rolex" you're really cheating yourself.

[@michaelsuede]

I want a rolex sub with a spring drive movement.

[@robertsullivan4773]

@Kinno Ringo your being sarcastic right😊

[@Colby_0-3_IRL_and_title_fights]

@Kinno Ringo you'd never notice it unless you were wearing the seiko on the other side

[@robertsullivan4773]

@Kinno Ringo I know my GMT Master II guides beautifully. But that GS is pretty sweet.

[@rousseau327]

@@Colby_0-3_IRL_and_title_fights I think you'd never notice it if you aren't used to looking at spring drive or high frequency quartz. But the beating is noticeable for sure

[@insane_troll]

That's easy, just buy both and swap the movements.

[@Another_User_Name_]

I like the Grand Seiko's look, sweeping second hand, and size more than the Rolex. The fact that the GS is cheaper, makes this a slam dunk for me. I'd go with the Grand Seiko.

[@Poemwriter_Angelo]

3 years ago, i commented that i prefer the design of the Rolex, but i changed my mind. the grand seiko looks so much clearer i didn't like the arms first as they looked a bit too bulky. but now i think its okay

[@CrimFerret]

If it were strictly between these two watches, I find the Grand Seiko more interesting but I'd want the titanium version which has an equally good finish while being lighter on the wrist. I have large wrists and the Submariner would actually be a little small as a sports watch for me. I look at 40mm as around the size I'd want a dress watch to be. For me though, a dive watch is a single task tool for a task I'll never perform. I'd much rather have a GMT or even better a dive watch with a GMT function (which I'm saving up for in the form of a Sinn U2-S.

[@baraaamir7891]

Rolex is a classic, but I would buy the gs

[@tihi_994]

Am I the only one to think that power reserve indicator should be other way around (down when there is no power left)?

[@gmshadowtraders]

Yes I've always thought so. It's counter-intuitive. At least in the newer watches the damn register is on the back.

[@evh4611]

Good point

[@GinoMarks]

kacadrema I always think that as well it should be the other way around

[@drfdwf392]

Yup. My thought since the first time I saw a Grand Seiko power reserve. It should be the other way around like the well-thought design of Seiko Presage SSA345J1. The power reserve design of Grand Seiko has always bugged me and made me never want a Grand Seiko.

[@Blue_3rd]

No, you’re not. I used to wonder why the watches on review were about to stop :)

[@ghostindamachine]

Seikosha - Grand Seiko for the win!

[@cowboyswami2017]

Both are my favorite Watches. I do believe that the Grand Seiko has a better engineered movement and finishing. Im torn

[@NICHOLSON7777]

I will always notice a Sub think nice watch, but when I see a GS- Now there's a watch guy.

[@evh4611]

Yup, true

[@thedoctorlee]

​@@evh4611 I think the same thing when I see a Seiko 5. A watch guy that saved $5,900 so he can one day get the Rolex.

[@evh4611]

@@thedoctorlee A Rolex and a Seiko 5 can sit proudly next to one another in a watch collection. Nothing wrong with that at all.

[@rafayz9033]

Agreed

[@tkmmusician]

Exactly.

[@marksman4004]

I'll take the rolex with the spring drive movement. Love that sweeping hand.

[@cmr9928]

06:57 Spring drive so smooth

[@Eric_Nielsen]

A+ camera work as always. I've tried on both. Waitlisted for the Sub; no intention to get the GS as it is just too big for my 17cm wrist. GS clasps across the brand are embarrassingly cheap.

[@user2144]

The SBGA229 is a holy grail kind of watch for me. Would love an Omega too.

[@williamthurston6007]

I love the Grand Seiko the second hand sweep is amazing

[@hbl_channel]

Awesome comparison. Which Seiko Automatic will you recommend though that will hold is value over time?

[@shawnlee7740]

Love the grand seiko's quality to finish and the sweep of the seconds hand but it might be too big for my 15.5cm circumference wrist😔

[@diegobittar7425]

I think that it may be people getting to the store for the Grand Seiko. I will just for the hyptonic Spring Drive movement.

[@Birdylockso]

I own a Rolex SM and GS SBGA031, (Titanium and prettier face), for about 4-5 years each. Hands down, I like GS by far, because of 1) the extendable clasp when I wear diving wet suit, 2) brighter luminosity underwater, 3) the accuracy without having to adjust the time each month, 4) super impressive technology, 5) overall more interesting to look at than the plain Rolex SM. (BTW, I doubt the difference between 200m and 300m is that big of a deal, because no one goes that deep anyway, and I've had no problem going down to 30m with either one of them. And the titanium clasp of GS does NOT feel less of a quality than RSM at all. Also, the 44mm size does not feel or look 44mm.) However, Rolex appreciate in price overtime. Mine is close to doubling in value in the last 5 years. I don't understand it, but it is what it is, (and I'm not complaining). Conclusion: Get the Grand Seiko for yourself, and get the Rolex for you and your kids. Now that I have a couple of entry level luxury watches, one from Switzerland and one from Japan. What dive watch should I buy next, other than these two countries?

[@captnwally]

please help- i’m new to luxury watches and just purchased a sbga031 and removed 2 links by pushing out a couple of the pins. when trying to reassemble I find the pins just slide right through. did i lose any parts. thankyou for any help you can provide 😸

[@rickgano75]

I'm perfectly happy with my Omega. Mine is blue and I think more distinctive than either Rolex or GS as well it's 300m.

[@bjmarchives]

It appears GS is playing the trends here. If it were 38-40mm and a smaller L2L, case size. I would likely pick it over the sub.. but it will be forgotten.

[@PK-mx7nf]

The problem, as always with Seiko, is the damn Size.

[@wangox]

Agree with you. Why only the cheaper models are small and the expensive are Hugh as fuck I have no idea.

[@Gnomosfortheoffice]

Because they can't produce slim yet highly precise movements like Rolex does.

[@Antoinne9]

@@Gnomosfortheoffice whoaaaa

[@gifsec3601]

@@Gnomosfortheoffice false, snowflake among a few other GS are small and elegant. Agreed that most GS are too big, but this GS should be big, its a dive watch.

[@Gnomosfortheoffice]

@@gifsec3601 A snowflake comes in at 41mm wide and almost 13mm thick. That's not elegant and small

[@reighbh13]

GS for me, an easy one for me having had several Rolexes over the years and currently have an GMTc and 1680 Red. So the Rolex box is ticked. however if this was my first proper watch, I think the Rolex is the choice. The GS availability plays a massive part in my decision too.

[@lousmith5031]

Due to its size and having a 9 inch wrist the sub is a little small for me so a breitling seawolf fits nicely with cash left over

[@Noblemumin]

0:47 the difference in the movement of second hand in GS is so much more smoother than Submariner.

[@jstanovic]

Check again....while the Rolex may be a hit beat and relatively smooth...the spring drive is as smooth as silk

[@hacker007300]

James Stanovic yeah because it does not have a balance wheel! So what to you expect

[@davidevans4609]

Not a fan of the cyclops, and the sweep of the second hand on the Grand Seiko is just amazing. Tough choice though (for those fortunate enough to be able to afford either one). Beautiful photography as always from Watchfinder.

[@0017Bulldog]

Thank you for this presentation. An excellent comparison and intriguing as well.

[@monsters8730]

The play with the lume was simply beautiful.

[@None12445]

The second hand ...DAMN.... the flow 😳 WOW grand seiko, I’m comming for you!

[@bradle4162]

I'll the first to admit that the GS is better engineered. But the fact is, is that the Rolex Submariner is the more iconic piece and the one I'd choose. Kind of how the Seiko SKX is outdated, but it's so iconic. Watchfinder should do a comparison between the Zenith El Primero and the Omega Speedmaster. Iconic chronograph movement vs iconic chronograph.

[@Colby_0-3_IRL_and_title_fights]

Then you need a pre ceramic version

[@MisterTrantastic]

They kind of have a video like that called "the greatest chronograph" or something to that effect. It includes the speedmaster, the el primero, and the navitimer.

[@saltysealion]

I want a SKX now...

[@Dylan-xj8tb]

Is it better engineered? I mean it still uses a stamped clasp, pins and sleeves for the bracelet...the bezel isnt even ceramic either. Seems like a watch full of cut corners.

[@maxcooke3142]

@@Dylan-xj8tb Have you looked inside a spring drive movement? Do you know what's inside it? It literally has a stator generating an electrical charge to operate the quartz crystal and power the electro magnetic field to regulate the smooth sweep, in addition to the mechanical movement powering the thing. I can appreciate people not liking the fact that it's not 100% mechanical, but if that's not the definition of superb engineering, I don't know what is.

[@saudinavigator68]

Can you evaluate the octo finissimo steel

[@wumpyaz]

If it were I the GS would be my purchase, the sweeping second hand, amazing detail, and lack of a hideous cyclops wins for me.

[@sypen1]

The fact that you went to the store wanting a Rolex will sum up the story.

[@dougscruggs5428]

That would be my first choice as well. Real Sub vs copycat Sub : )

[@sethmoyer]

All that walking into a shop wanting a Rolex means is that you don't know much about watches so you just want what's popular.

[@akosbalog4363]

Especially when you leave with a Grand Seiko :)

[@inkhaurt5812]

@@dougscruggs5428 The Sub is a copycat of the Fifty Fathoms.

[@dougscruggs5428]

@@inkhaurt5812 The Blancpain came out in 1953, while the Rolex Sub came out in 1954 The Rolex shares some similarities with the Blancpain but I can't imagine a high end watch manufacturer 'copying' another brand just one year after it was released (I assume Rolex would have spent more than a year designing their watch, right?) So who really copied who?

[@johnthegreek7356]

It's actually divers 200 ( the iso standard) that means it's tested up to 275m

[@NathanChisholm041]

The ISO tests for “water resistance at overpressure.” That means the watch is subjected to 25% more depth pressure than the rated depth. For example, a 200 meter rated watch has to perform normally without condensation after exposure to 250 meters.

[@ccw5886]

Both fab watches. I love the spring drive. Its incredibley inovative and actually practical

[@jstanovic]

BTW great watch videos! Well produced, very knowledgeable and without the usual bias many channels have!

[@scotthayes2652]

GS all the time, yes the Rolex is over hyped. Seiko are moving the watch game on in all aspects for horology, the Swiss are happy to just purely rely on name for image.

[@raioni1059]

Moving it in terms of precision, movements etc but not in terms of consistently producing watches at a comfortably wearable size. It's not longer 2010 no one with any taste in fashion really wants to go over 40-42mm at the max

[@aruncv1373]

Rolex has been destroyed by speculation. They aren’t doing anything special now.

[@smllboy25]

@@raioni1059 40-42mm is a woman's size

[@NateTrucker92]

The GS is no doubt an unbelievably impressive watch. Technologically innovative and extremely well made.....but.....the Rolex is by far the more attractive watch both astheticly and historically and retention of value. Plus it's arguably the best looking dive watch ever made next to the Tudor Black Bay. I'd wait for the Rolex.

[@magnuslindqvist4937]

Nice video. I wish the GS was available in a smaller size like 40 mm (that goes for many other divers as well).

[@ssh3092]

I can listen to this guy all of my life without getting bored once !

[@drfdwf392]

The one thing other Watch Companies don't get when designing their dive watches to be on par with Rolex Submariner is ELEGANCE at first glance. The Submariner was design to be rugged, waterproof, functional while being elegant and classy enough to be worn on a more formal occasion. All if not most dive watches are too rugged looking including this Grand Seiko. Tudor Black Bay is the only other elegant dive watch but then again it was designed by the same guy who made Rolex. So yes. This is what most if not all watch companies don't get. ELEGANCE.

[@drfdwf392]

For example if Seiko made a dive watch out of the Alpinist design, that would be on par with the Submariner in terms of elegance. Beautiful indices and number fonts, cathedral hands, medium case size less than 39mm. Imagine if the SARB017 had a dive watch version. Black dial, outer rotating bezel, while keeping the indices and number font, oh my god. Now, that would be a rugged yet elegant dive watch like the submariner. A timeless and classic design that would be loved by many. Also a circle cyclops is so fucking beautiful! Like the ones in Panerai. And yet no one fucking makes them. If a circle cyclops would be added on a dive watch version of SARB017, then that would really be on the same level of elegance and beauty as the submariner. Perhaps even prettier. But instead we get this bold, large, fucking scary designs. Same reason why the new Omega Seamaster dive watch will never get the same love as the submariner. Yes, the specs are superior, etc. But godamnit, those broad skeletonised sword hands alone will scare men with taste of elegance. Again, too many watch designers and companies try to compete with submariner but keeps fucking going the wrong way. The Rolex Submariner's charm isn't just because it's a dive watch. Even if you ignore the history and marketing of this watch, at first glance you'll actually notice how elegant it is despite being a dive watch. Indeed, it's a watch you can wear with a wet or dry suit.

[@otobotrecords]

Hahaha funniest comment in a long time lol. You really think Hans Wilsdorf designed the Tudor Black Bay?

[@aleksandersiemaszko6027]

I'd say there are more elegant divers: Blanc pain 50 Fathoms, Oris Diver 65, Seamaster.

[@drfdwf392]

@@otobotrecords You're taking things too literally. I just meant that the Tudor Black Bay is very very very similar to the submariner.

[@drfdwf392]

@@aleksandersiemaszko6027 Of course there are other elegant divers. But you got the point. I don't have to list down all diver watches that kinda looks classy to make my point. Also it comes down to opinion but in a design perspective without all the saturation of history, marketing, watchgeeks' worship, branding, hype, specs, 50 fathoms is too rugged and sporty, not in the level of elegance as submariner. Oris Diver 65, yes. It's minimalist timeless / classic design gives it an elegant look. Omega Seamaster 300 arrow hand sure. Omega Seamaster sword hands? Nope. Again, watchgeeks and fanboys will surely get angry, but on a design perspective alone at first glance without all the other things, there really are only few dive watches with elegant design.

[@mrheru8627]

Ahhh.... The smooth second hand.... The one and only (Grand Seiko)

[@nicolasalonso3012]

And also my kitchen clock

[@brianbuchert1966]

I actually prefer the slightly larger GS! I like the date complication better on the GS.was it just me or did anyone else see how smooth the GS movement was even compared to the rolex!? These are both grail watches to me and both are great watches but id rather grab the GS rather than be out on a waiting list!

[@murderwasthebass1]

The movement on the GS is so smooth.

[@udin737]

The GS is thicker and 44mm too. Until they make it slender and thinner, I will avoid buying it.

[@TheChadWork2001]

I'll take the Grand Seiko

[@Seb_Snufflepuss]

Why have lume on the counterweight on the seiko?

[@logger666]

I wish the lume on the second hand dial was the same place on the GS as it is on the Rolex.

[@chadr8264]

Simple; If you want a watch for life, get the GS. If you want a watch for "real life" get the Rolex. Real life meaning at some point you will either tire of it and resell it or give it to your kids.

[@stockholmpublishings2937]

What are you talking about? Why would one get tired of Rolex but not GS, especially since the sub has stood its test of time. You really know nothing do you.

[@chawenhalo0089]

@@stockholmpublishings2937 because Rolex are so common. Its the default choice for consumers that want an expensive watch but know little about watch making. Its also considered brash and bad taste. Lastly its produced in vast numbers and far less exclusive than a GS. I do like it as a classic icon, but its nothing special.

[@stockholmpublishings2937]

@ChawenHalo 008 "default choice" but then can't get a hold of one, therefor Rolex is not default. The whole argument of this video is that GS should be default bec of its availability. Why do you have to know about watch making if you're going to buy a watch? Your arguments are embarrassing. So one should not buy a car if you don't know how its built? Or one should not buy a house if you don't know anything about building houses? Be quiet. Bad taste? Rolex is the most recognized brand out there, how do you think they became that. Ooooh "produced in vast numbers", still you are here complaining about you can't buy a Rolex but you can buy a GS, a watch that is according to you "more exclusive" lol. Listen to yourself. You're dumb.

[@rousseau327]

​@@stockholmpublishings2937 Going by your comments across this video, I put your (mental) age at around 13, and the probability of you have the buying power to purchase either of these watches to be right around 10%. I'll give you 10% in case you have family money. I say 13, because this is exactly how I would expect someone prepubescent teenager to react when they think they know everything and everyone else knows nothing, lmao.

[@stockholmpublishings2937]

​@stockholm publishings what r you talking about. I have a Rolex. But so what? If one can't afford a specific watch you can't have an opinion? Let me know where you at so I can come and slap you.

[@jimmyf1312]

The hands are ghastly on the GS also the power reserve indicator is silly. Also its tacky how GS is trying to make their watch look like the sub

[@jacc88888]

jimmyf1312 Yes i agree. Why don’t they bring out a GS 40mm version of the 62MAS instead? I’m sure it would fly of the shelves. This watch lacks charisma imo

[@jimmyf1312]

jacc88888 also without the power reserve. But yeah 40mm would make more sense. Big watches are going out of style again

[@jimmyf1312]

The GS logo looks like something you’d see at a renaissance festival

[@authorjohnwquinn]

I'm waiting on the Subby - 44 mil and what looks to be a much cheaper bracelet are deal breakers for me. Great video - beautiful photography!

[@wifeabuser1201]

theres also a seiko prospex that comes with a spring drive too if i remember correctly

[@supremegalacticcommander2783]

Grand Seiko all day long. Yeah, yeah, the Rolex resale is better, but so what. Everybody and their brother has a Rolex and GS is just better finished in my opinion, more interesting (I know not totally mechanical) movement and cheaper. No question for me. By the way, just compare the hands. The Rolex'a appear stamped, the Seiko look like they are hand finished "solid" parts.

[@tig79rover91]

this guy is amazing at presentation

[@defenstrator4660]

I love the GS, but I find it a bit large for a d everything watch.

[@ZeroSOFInfinity]

Tried both Sub and GS. Got the Sub, but bored of it after few months. Sold it and got Omega Seamaster 300m (latest) and Tudor Black Bay Dark instead.

[@ajdhill]

One other consideration to be made is the lack of a repair network for Grand Seiko, whereby Rolex has an extensive one.

[@jhmsmarttv795]

And also the differences in warranty, both when you buy the item new, and the service warranty. Cheers!

[@jstanovic]

I have two spring drive GS's. I doubt either will ever need repair

[@SharapovaFan]

True. My 8R and 8L-equipped Seikos had to be sent back to Japan to be serviced. Low-end, sub-$1K Seikos can be serviced by any decent watchmaker. However, I don't buy shitter Seikos with the 4R or 7S movements. e.g. Turtle, SKX. Anyone with a brain knows you can buy superior ETA-equipped watches at the same price as shitter Seikos.

[@ericastone1415]

Ofcourse, with Rolex you're gonna need those repair centres.

[@SharapovaFan]

@@ericastone1415 Are you implying Rolex isn't reliable? That's just wrong.

[@rafayz9033]

I love the technical innovations that GS brings to the table, many purists turn their nose up at spring drive technology, but I think it’s an innovation that deserves a toast. In this case, however, it is the very thing that GS strives for which makes it hard for me to choose and that is their unmatched attention to detail and making a time piece that oozes fine finishing. When I look at a diving watch I want some thing I can use as a tool and it would break a little part of me each time I scratch that Seiko. On the other hand I absolutely hate Rolex right now because of how they control the availability of their watches on the market, artificially driving their prices higher and higher. It frankly goes against what Rolex started out as: a tool watch which anyone with the ability to afford it could buy. Today Rolex is no different than any one of these fashion brands who tout a luxury hand bag for an obscene price because of their “name”. With all due respect, fuck your name Rolex. I’m not going to loose sleep over missing out on owning your watches. In the end though, it really can’t be boiled down to a clear choice. Sometimes you just have to be spontaneous, but I think what everyone on this comment board can understand is that is not about the time piece you wear, it’s about how you wear it. The miles you put on it, the patina which ages it, the scratches which tell a story... your story. Go out and make an adventure of your own god damnit

[@woonfaseng8737]

i have a KS without any SEIKO on it , until 2017 one brand / one logo strategy for Grand Seiko , most GS and KS have both Seiko and KS/ GS printed or attached on the dial face. Only the very 1st generation models of vintage KS and GS have one brand on dial - i.e. cannot see Seiko on dial , only Grand Seiko or King Seiko on the dial.

[@pensforgts]

İ have a 2018 nd submariner, from the date i bought i just took it of my wrist when sleeping or sport. Currently i am 1,5 seconds fast against atomic clock. İts nearly 1 year now. So it is very accurate. I dont like big watches if gs makes smaller imwill try it.

[@rik6597]

And i am very happy with my Seiko skx013k2

[@matthewscott3689]

If only the GS was 40mm... and just personal preference, I’m really not a fan of the Seiko second hand with the lollipop on the back end... it doesn’t make any sense and doesn’t look as good IMHO. I have the SKX 013 rather than the 007/009 just because of the second hand. The Submariner is the better looking watch and it’s more iconic. The GS might be the better watch (so I totally understand those who would prefer the GS) but I’d take the Sub anyday of the week. Also, the GS’s value drops quite a bit on the resale market, while the Submariner will increase in value over time

[@rousseau327]

My problem with this is, when comparing dive watches, it's literally like comparing the best (or most iconic) that Rolex has to offer, versus the most mediocre than GS has to offer. If we were to compare, say, the GS Whirlpool or the GS Kira-Zuri (SBGA387) to the Rolex Datejust or OP, it'd be much closer, and people would be hard pressed to say the Rolex is the watch to get. This is obviously no one's fault, and I personally love Rolexes, but people should look at the whole picture when passing a judgement on these two brands.

[@matthewscott3689]

ewt415 I get what you’re saying, but any comparison you make with GS and Rolex, Rolex will always win in terms of just brand and iconic design (though the OP is the weakest Rolex by far, so comparing it to the Snowflake which is GS best model also seems an unfair comparison). Rolex has a very limited number of watch designs, therefore they are all iconic. Personally I think that GS make a better quality watch, but it isn’t enough to pass Rolex overall. Also, GS makes some odd design choices that end up being deal breakers for some people (granted I’m not a fan of the Cyclops either), usually the power reserve messes up the dial (example Snowflake) or the case size is too large. I think you’re right about one thing, GS might edge out a Date Just in the dress category but it’s all personal preference. And to say the Date Just isn’t an iconic design on its own is wrong. I just don’t see, when looking at the whole picture, how GS can beat Rolex. If you’re talking about just performance and ignoring all of those factors, then yes, GS probably wins, but you would have to ignore branding, horological significance, resale value, design and pride of ownership. That stuff can’t be easily ignored and it’s why Rolex wins. Would you rather compare GMT models? Rolex wins that. What about Sports models? I would argue the Daytona would beat anything GS has to offer. And Rolex wins the dive category too, even if you want to take the Submariner out and put in the Sea dweller... Rolex is just too iconic of a brand for GS to compete with. And that’s nothing against GS, they make amazing watches and I would love to own one someday. But if I had a choice right now between a new GS or a used Rolex, I would still take the Rolex.

[@alexsystems2001]

Amazing video! Thank you... BUT... first one of these I watched on my smart TV and with all the rotating watch dials, I started feeling sick 🤢