Fixing Kanto's Elite 4

I understand the Devs were very limited back then but OOOOFT the gen 1 moves could be better, lets fix that :)
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[@RoryTheFiend]

😄Thank you everyone for watching! 🔗If you want to join my Discord Server then you can do so here: discord.gg/2EgF96wgZS 🎙Lastly I'm looking to upgrade my USB mic, from a Blue Snowball to something... if anyone has any recommendations I'd love to hear them!

[@ArchinaGM]

The snowball works fine with proper mixing though imo it'd be worth saving up for a proper XLR setup if you want to upgrade. If you want some options hmu some time and give me a budget to work with :P

[@RoryTheFiend]

@@ArchinaGM sounds good big dog

[@rubiconprime1429]

Maybe a Hypno could replace the weaker Gengar on Agatha’s team. It would fulfill a similar role, give her more type diversity (she has a Marowak, type uniformity is not a priority really) and would decrease the redundancy of the Gengar line within her team.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Good shout, something I hadn't considered but yeah I can see Agatha using a Hypno

[@AznYunHou]

@@RoryTheFiend Plus Hypno does learn Poison Gas for a psychic type and joking about how Agatha is the Poison expert

[@RoryTheFiend]

@@AznYunHou I don't even want to think about how Hypno uses Poison Gas o_o

[@Jac735]

Haaa I destroyed Agatha with my strategy based hypno slept on pokemon in that generation playing your cards right the the perfect moves

[@bananaspice1967]

​@@RoryTheFiendVery stinky farts

[@pkmntrainermark8881]

Even without the Ghost Marowak callback, Marowak still fits in a Ghost-type team because it's bone-themed.

[@RoryTheFiend]

You're totally right, glad he fits in on multiple levels then!

[@tlst94]

How'd the Kantonian-Cubone line have been like as Ground/Ghost Types? And if Ghosts had more better moves?

[@mrtrollnator123]

​@@tlst94honestly it'd be great

[@Silverstar114]

I actually really like that you added Marowak to Agatha's team! That's really creative, and I never really thought about it.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Even if Marowak isn't amazing in gen 1 (gen 2 marowak with a thick club though? oof that's strong), I always felt she should get one, good as well adding type diversity and a decent physical attacker to her team

[@shiruotakuno28]

​@@RoryTheFiendI'm shocked GF didn't think to do that themselves

[@sheogorath6834]

@@shiruotakuno28 Well, she had one in her rematch team in Let's go. (But it's Alolan Marrowak)

[@armorbearer9702]

I agree. Marowak fits perfectly with Agatha's theme.

[@Missingno_Miner]

Especially appropriate, since they gave her Alolan Marowak in Let's Go.

[@dootsouls]

I would've personally kept Ice Punch for Jynx. It's kind of its signiture move in gen 1, but I can see why ice beam is preferred. Edit: same with Dodrio tri-attack

[@RoryTheFiend]

Yeah that's reasonable I definitely could've given the Pokémon some more moves to fit with their theming

[@ravinercf]

I would argue poliwarth should also have hypnosis instead of being a amenesia sweaper. Something like hypnosis submission surf and body slam, yeah it would be easier but it is a move more associated with the mon

[@guildmasterri5995]

​​@@RoryTheFiendthat move is also special in gen 1

[@stevensamuels4041]

Electric/ICE/fire Punch should do 120 damage with 5 App, it would be strong Signatur moves.

[@ravinercf]

@@stevensamuels4041 why?

[@ArchinaGM]

I still find it ironic how the best member of the E4 is the very first one you encounter. The other three have flaws so gargantuanly extreme they can be toppled with some basic team setup. Agatha can be a pain in edge-cases though imo that entire fight is just you rolling a dice and hoping things don't go horribly wrong with some terribly bad luck. Bruno is, well.. Bruno and Lance can literally be an instant win if you can KO their Gyarados and switch in a ghost-type.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Gen 1 ice moves are op, imagine playing the Japanese version and dealing with 30% freeze blizzards

[@DragonTheOneDZA]

Now fix all the bugs in gen 9

[@RoryTheFiend]

10 hour video minimum for that one

[@MarcusAlexandre1921]

Fixing the whole game?

[@sephiross6438]

I'd say the vid length is 24 hours.

[@patonosequecosa]

Bug aren't that bad in SV , like Lolix is pretty decent

[@goldenboy1805]

@@patonosequecosanot sure if you’re joking or not and in case you’re not, they meant “bug” as in the glitch fest in SV. not bug type pokemon.

[@deltaquarayza]

Grimsley has always been very easy for me. Marshal has Sturdy Sawk and Rock moves, Shauntal has a lot of bulky Pokémon, and Caitlin seems to have infinite coverage. Grimsley, on the other hand, has a Liepard.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Oof liepard slander, I get you though poor liepard could use a buff

[@victory8928]

Marshall without sawk is so easy cause monsters like archs can just shred the team with acrobatics. Archeops is quite good in the league. Its insane attack and move pool makes it a glass cannon with nuclear ammunition. Chandle as well. It mostly depends on the team though my meinshao did mince both Grimsly and sawk

[@kyleellis1825]

The issue is that his liepard doesn't use a competetive moveset.

[@curiouscase0075]

Marowak is a great addition to Agatha’s team! The other Pokemon I thought might be a good addition is Ninetales.

[@diostaku2]

Golem on Bruno's team instead of Onix makes more sense, not only because no other trainer uses Golem or because Onix sucks, but also because unlike Onix, Golem does have limbs!, which makes him fit better in a fighting type team.😤 It would also make sense for Blue to change some Pokemon before the final battle, I mean, he's already done it before.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Yeah Golem just fits in more since he's looks sturdy and strong which I feel are two descriptive words you can associate with Bruno and what his team should be I've "fixed" the johto elite 4 as well and I give Bruno some similar Pokémon that I feel fit his theme but aren't fighting type specifically And yeah I feel like blue since he is implied to catch so many Pokémon would switch up his team a bit more frequently to keep you on your toes and blue experimenting for what is truly the strongest team comp

[@diostaku2]

@@RoryTheFiend Also Blue replacing pokemon left and right would make Oak's words at the end make some sense, about treating his pokemon with love and not like tools or something like that (even though we all do that). And the Golem thing is simply logical, a Pokémon that evolves by trade that no one in Kanto uses, plus it has limbs! LIMBS!!! perfect for an Elite 4.

[@scandinaviannegro]

nerd alert: Bruno has an Onix in the anime, so has to be there.

[@RoryTheFiend]

@@scandinaviannegro Bruno only has an onix in the anime because he has one in the games, or so I'd assume

[@mrcoldmiser]

Cynthia was really the first champion where they sat down and wondered what kind of team a real trainer might beat the E4 with

[@Ramiestar]

I've always found it weird that in Red/Blue, the Elite 4 trainers' Pokemon use their "last 4" level up moves, but in Yellow, almost all of them have TM moves making them more formidable. Even more baffling, Agatha's Level 60 Gengar in Red/Blue knows both Toxic and Dream Eater. You can't use Dream Eater unless you're asleep! And if you use Toxic to poison an opponent, it can't be put to sleep!

[@RoryTheFiend]

Yeah Agatha's final Gengar is absolutely confusing, not sure why they didn't give it Hypnosis, or just replace Dream Eater with something else

[@harrydsgn]

Love that you put Marowak on Agatha’s team! Always had the idea it should be on her team

[@shiruotakuno28]

Same

[@RoryTheFiend]

Yeah to me anyway it felt like an easy inclusion to make, I love pokemon that go with a gym leader or elite 4's theme but doesnt match their type, like Aaron's Drapion

[@genarftheunfuni5227]

What I love about that movement where you analyzed Arbok's moveset is that Smogon had the Yellow sprite, which is directly staring at you as if "Why am I still here? Just to suffer?"

[@bip_bip_lechuga]

Under leveled dragonite makes story sense in gen 2 if you consider team rocket forced shiny gyarados to evolve. Maybe his dragonite is a rescue as well, or it just happened like that during the raid as the signal was being broadcast and he was trying to stop them with a dragonair

[@RoryTheFiend]

Yeah that could be a plausible explanation for sure, honestly an interesting concept with pokemon being forced to evolve at lower levels

[@tlst94]

How'd Dragonite have looked like if it was more serpent-like? While cute-looking with blue and white color scheme? And shiny black eyes.

[@JayClearman411]

@@RoryTheFiendpretty sure that was a think I recall finding gyarados level 15… an other stage 1 Pokémon at really odd lower levels in johto

[@baconlabs]

I'm starting to wonder if all of Onix's _hardest_ fans are compensating for something

[@RoryTheFiend]

OOOF, you might be on to something

[@kyleellis1825]

Gen 1 Onix should only be a toxic wrapper.

[@Kwevin6659]

My main memory of Kanto is Firered. One time I reached the elite 4 with a team of early level 40 pokemon because I straight up just didn't want to grind levels. Spent weeks grinding matches for the right RNG I needed with each Elite 4 member, made it to Blue with 8 fresh waters to my name. I beat him in 2 tries. Still have this save file, no idea how I did it, my snorlax was my surfer while I had a vaporeon on the team. Didn't even use the fresh waters.

[@calebowen2006]

Lorelei was always tricky for me because my teams back in the day usually consisted of a grass, fire, water, flying, dragon, and something else. The main issue i always had was that ice water is quite a tricky type combo defensively for a team designed around the grass fire water trio so while i never really lost to her i always got bruised up

[@mpg272727]

Rather surprised you did not give Lance a Charizard given it's always been one of his signiture pokemon from Gen2 onwards. I get it might kind of devalue the gen1 starters given you or blue might have a charizard when you take on Lance but it is rather iconic of Lance, adds more type coverage and of course its always been a joke that Charizard looks like it would be a Dragon type. That and it's part flying which despite Lance claming to be a Dragon master he has always had more flying types than Dragon types. Oh I pray that one day someone goes and makes a rom with this exact elite four and with all the gyms and trainers in the game being more difficult too. Would be very fun, kind of like a Crystal Legacy but for Gen1

[@fluffyninja3467]

Agreed 🤌

[@firewarrior8298]

You know what’s interesting, with the exception of trace, every canonical champion of the indigo league has had a charizard, an aerodactyl, and a Gyarados at one point.

[@thecrispymaster]

I remember one KZbinr joking about Gen 2 Lance that he's just a souped up Falkner. In those games he doesn't have a single pokemon without the flying type

[@tlst94]

Kanto and Johto lacked Dragon Types. So how'd they've been like if existing mons were retyped before release? Being the; Charizard, Gyarados, Aerodactyl, Slowpoke, Ampharos, Yanma, and Horsea(pre-Kingdra) lines? Also, if Gen 2 had Regional Variants and made Lapras and Arbok part Dragons? While Kanto-Gyarados was Water/Dragon and its Johto Variant was Dark/Dragon? And if the scrapped "Omega" mon was released in Gen 2 as Steel/Dragon(with two pre-evolutions)?

[@skeetermania3202]

@@firewarrior8298When has Blue had an Aerodactyl?

[@Starykins]

I recall the entire sinnoh league being easy because Glaceon has always been on my sinnoh teams

[@RoryTheFiend]

Glaceon seems like a menace in game

[@robertlupa8273]

You must be a _really_ big Glaceon fan then.

[@Starykins]

@@robertlupa8273 very much so

[@kuwe4652]

Since Agatha is more of a poison specialist than ghost actually, I'd argue that Muk would be quite fitting... With minimize and acid armor it can also take quite some hits, if the ai allows it to set up (and the player doesn't just obliterate it before)

[@RoryTheFiend]

That's an interesting idea to lean more into her Poison type specialty, minimize would be a very trolly set to deal with, but that fits agatha's theme

[@tlst94]

But we've already got Koga as a Type specialist. And Elite Fours are just extra Gym Leaders imo.

[@robertlupa8273]

*QotD:* The Unova Elite 4 kicked my ass when I played Black for the first time about a year ago, to the point that I was genuinely frustrated at them. The only one I didn't have any problems with was Marshal and that's only because my Sigilyph dodged every Rock Slide and Stone Edge thrown at her. Otherwise he'd probably be tough too. My team just wasn't built to handle Psychic and Ghost types very well. As for the weak ones... if we exclude the Johto E4 (for obvious reasons), then I guess it's Flint? He ended up being way less scary than I thought he'd be. And who could forget his Flareon spamming Fire moves against my Gardevoir who Traced his Flash Fire? Peak comedy. :D

[@RoryTheFiend]

based for using a Sigilyph, I'm using one playing through Black 2 right now! I think Flint might need to study up on Pokemon abilities, that's so funny the ai doesn't recognize Flash Fire (I'll keep that in mind if I ever nuzlocke gen 4)

[@aidansherry17]

Love your videos!:) I've never played the XY games, but If I recall correctly, most of the gym leaders have small team rosters and not alot of moves? That could be a good future project for you maybe!

[@RoryTheFiend]

Thanks Aiden! you're right, I played through X and Y once, as a Nuzlocke with the exp share off, and the Gym Leaders still weren't that scary, definitely something I'm considering!

[@speedypichu6833]

It was my first game, and yeah they are easy. The largest team a gym leader has is 3 Pokémon (all except the first 2) and the elite four all have 4 Pokémon.

[@megarayquaza2240]

Arbok is also in the Dragon Egg group. So it being on Lance's team makes sense

[@leonardooberdadealmeidamon2305]

Yay! Bruno finally has a proper team! I enjoyed your count a lot so far, and in my opinion you can go further if you don't limit yourself to pre-existing games, but also creatina now stories and regions has well. I think it would also be cool seen the Gen 3 games next, both the Hoenn games and the Gen 1 games remakes.

[@AmberLB93]

good choice of Arbok for Lance. historically, snakes were the original dragons.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Gotta thank the commenters from my Fixing Johto series for that idea, Snakes definitely pass as a dragon in a game where there's only 1 official dragon type line

[@t.j.fountain3414]

If Nemona counts as a champion, she was definitely a really tough fight for me. She's definitely the real champion fight to me, I swear they made Geeta underwhelming for the purpose of not overshadowing Nemona.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Not played s/v so I can't comment but from what I've seen Geeta has the wrong order of Pokémon? Like glimora isn't her lead Pokémon, and kingambit isn't her last pokemon

[@t.j.fountain3414]

@@RoryTheFiend Yeah... she can send out her Kingambit second to last in a good situation. But her Glimmora is her Ace, meaning she's coded to send them out LAST. A setup pokemon.

[@HesGotaGun505]

Who tf is using Awakenings against the Elite 4? The pokeflute wakes up all pokemon, not just Snorlax.

[@trulyagoose]

QOTD: Siebold had 8 year old me in a chokehold. (Pokemon Y). As a player who, back then, only used attacking moves, and had a primarily water and ground type team, the water pokemon onnhis team washed me away.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Yeah I actually think Siebold is the best elite 4 member in X and Y (which I'll talk about in my next video coming out hopefully a week on saturday!) I relate tho as a kid I struggled so much with the elite 4s and champions since I'd just have awful movesets like gyarados with surf and rock smash, or my OG haunter had return lol

[@trollge9567]

You know, explosions are pretty hard to record into videos yet here you are, giving us banger after banger

[@TheBlueWizzrobe]

Fun video! Pokemon games really need a hard mode, and this seems like it would be a cool set up for a hard mode for the original games :) I especially approve of the improvements to Bruno. The poor guy really needs them.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Thank you! Yeah it'd be great fun playing in a hard mode, nothing kaizo levels just a difficult challenge for a seasoned player. I'm glad you approve of Bruno, had a bit of fun giving fire blast to machamp but why not, and I'm actually trying to make it look like fighting types can do something in gen 1 lol

[@jeremyl2728]

I like most of changes but I feel like I would have switched go about out for file plume I just feel like that's more fitting for Agatha since it's based off of the corpse flower. Also having a stab mega drain is nice lol

[@RoryTheFiend]

That's a good shout, I'd actually considered Victreebel for Agatha but didn't even think about Vileplume!

[@Baro_Fjellheim]

Rory: Does it learn Fire Blast? Gamefreak: Yes? Rory: Give it Fire Blast!

[@RoryTheFiend]

LOL Fire blast is such a good gen 1 move I went a bit crazy with it, afterall 30% burn chance? it was too tempting!

[@TrayolLyrics]

I really liked all of these changes. Very thematic and cognizant of the Gen 1 jank. QOTD: BDSP Cynthia is by far the hardest champion. ILCA pumped the already difficult Cynthia full of smogon steroids and set her loose on unsuspecting players.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Yeah I've seen some of those strong sets, I gotta say BDSP doesn't look that good to me but they look like they have some of the toughest battles ever

[@dankester5607]

A Dodrio without Tri-Attack is like day without sunshine

[@ethan6483]

I would give Agatha Hypno, Parasect, Marowak, Ninetales, and Gengar. It fits the creepy theme of her team, and tbh I would just make the first four all part ghost type anyway.

[@nazeersadek6705]

I also remember the first time I battled Steven while it wasn’t the headrest battle I had to endure (that honor goes to Cynthia) he really gave me a hard time especially with his 2 fossils

[@JayClearman411]

Same cuz I found Steven randomly while exploring in meteor falls in emerald an was only expecting to talk to him maybe get a item u kno?… maybe some useful info an go on my merry way ..bruh…. He, I was ambushed he battled me with his whole team of pkmn at High 70’s.. his highest being metagross at 78, to say I was NOT prepared was an understatement he completely WASHED me.. but i won handily after a trip to the pc. Cynthia for that matter only because I was severely underleveled also same think happen in black/white in undella town where I was surprised to see her 1 minute were talking about sinnoh next thing you know lv77 garchomp lol it was crazy I didn’t lose cuz it was late game but it was closed. Very close. was Wallace I distinctly remember having a problem with his milotic that thing set up And spammed toxic before I knew it

[@nazeersadek6705]

@@JayClearman411 first time I battled Steven in Emerald I had Rayquaza, Groudon and Kygore on my team in the 70s and 3 other mons in the 50s to say I narrowly defeated him would be an understatement

[@DrFriksi]

Pure counter to Agatha is just using your pokeflute every time she puts you to sleep

[@RoryTheFiend]

Agatha in shambles when you start playing the flute like you're the pied piper

[@pokepress]

I’m guessing the Arbok and Golbat on Agatha’s team were intended to be “scary” Pokémon to fit in with the ghosts.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Yeah, they do work compared to the majority of the rest of the pokemon in the game, just interesting the devs didnt decide to put in a 2nd ghost type in the game to help agatha's team out a bit

[@Luvatar]

Giving Charizard both Slash and Swords Dance is counter-productive. Slash will never benefit from the Swords Dance because Gen 1 crit's ignore stat boosts.

[@Mobtrapper-hq8is]

0:39 Not exactly a champion but Volo was definitely very strong and cinematic. To this day it’s the best Pokémon battle I’ve experienced.

[@RoryTheFiend]

not played or seen much of PLA but I've heard people are a fan of Volo, I'm glad to hear people mention trainers from the recent pokemno games being tough and fun!

[@Mobtrapper-hq8is]

@@RoryTheFiend another hard trainer in recent games is the final boss of Pokémon Scarlet. Violet also has decent difficulty, but their teams are completely different so obviously one would be stronger than the other, and it’s Scarlet by a long shot.

[@Mobtrapper-hq8is]

(I didn’t say their names to avoid spoilers for those who haven’t played)

[@RoryTheFiend]

@@Mobtrapper-hq8is respect, we keep it spoiler safe here

[@darkshot4424]

I remember something about good ai from the video about beating the game without taking damage, if i remember right if the ai uses a move that inflicts status effect like sleep or paralysis, if you have a status condition it won't use the move to inflict the status condition because it already see that you have one and use a different move, great video by the way

[@Asidders]

Thank the lord for actually recommending to me good Pokémon videos. I didn't know they existed before.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Thank you! youtube algorithm has really thrown me a bone lately, more content in the works!

[@hitmonchampion9287]

As someone who didn’t get into Pokemon until gen 3(I was literally born the same year the First Movie came out in America), hearing about how funky Gen 1 was. Makes me wonder how I would’ve done if I played those games when they came out. No prior experience, still fresh. I was a dumb as a kid, so maybe these still would’ve posed a challenge for me. Hell, the first time I got to the champion in Fire Red, I had no idea I could use Revives and Elixirs, so I literally had 1 Pokemon left with drained PP.

[@RoryTheFiend]

I hear you, though gen 1 definitely has a lot of underwhelming boss fights, I can see some posing a serious challenge to the average kid. Me as a kid, even Ruby had me messed up. Not so much the trainers but I had no idea where to find capt stern in slateport and where to get surf after norman, since wallys dad doesn't just hand it to you like in emerald.

[@hitmonchampion9287]

@@RoryTheFiend God I feel that. There was one time I never fought Sabrina because I couldn’t unlock her Gym. Mostly because I got lost going through Silph Co. and got lazy trying to figure out all of the teleporters. It was too much for my TV addicted baby brain at the time to figure out.

[@atomskShadox]

I'm honestly fine with gym leaders, Elite 4 members, and other super specialists having illegal pokemon with illegal movesets, especially if the move fits the Pokemon well without being horrendously overpowered. If anyone knows how to get a precociously evolved Dragonite and then teach it a move it cant normally learn it would definitely be the Dragon master with three Dragons from the same Dragon line who is a descendant of the dragon training clan in dragon training city.

[@warrockenjoyer2170]

If I'm being honest, the hardest E4 member I can remember even with my team of 100s when I was but a wee baby was Bertha from Platinum. That granny would be the bane of my existence.

[@RoryTheFiend]

She's got some threats like Rock Wrecker Rhyperior, that's gonna do some decent damage no matter what level you are o_o

[@thenerdbeast7375]

Interestingly the E4 seem to be almost based around TCG types than actual types from the game. In an early episodes of the Indigo League you even see the TCG type symbols appear, such as in the Pokemon Center in Pewter City and in the literal gym in the Punchy Pokemon. Lorelei matches TCG's water type, Bruno matches TCG's fighting type, Agatha matches TCG's psy type and Lance matched TCG's colorless type.

[@GodBroly]

Also everyone gets it wrong Agatha is a death specialist she's older (close to death) uses poison types (poison meant to kill) and ghosts (self explanatory)

[@ScarletRebel96]

I love this series please continue this

[@RoryTheFiend]

That's the plan 😎

[@sebarsht12]

I think Hoenn gym leaders and elite 4 are in need of the same treatment plus I enjoy the idea of an elite 4 specialising in 2 types each, Sidney - Dark and Poison - Sharpedo, Seviper, Cacturne, Crobat, Absol Phoebe - Ghost and Fighting - Sableye, Medicham, Banette, Machamp, Dusclops Glacia - Ice and Water - Sealeo, Pelipper, Tentacruel, Glalie, Walrein Drake - Dragon and Fire - Torkoal, Flygon, Kingdra, Blaziken, Salamence Steven - Steel and Flying Skarmory, Altaria, Aggron, Gyarados, Metagross.

[@piratelady8771]

Bruno not even having good AI goes to show how bad he really is at battling. The devs couldn't even pretend to make him smart.

[@RoryTheFiend]

for the most part he's clicking at random, bro is the definition of fake it till you make it

[@jakeryker3751]

Lorelei always has a special place in my heart because she showed how dumb I was as a kid. She was my fist elite 4 ever in leaf green. All I had was my over leveled Blastoise. Back then I had no concept of coverage moves so it had all water moves. The battle was over as soon as she sent out her water absorb Lapras.

[@RoryTheFiend]

She must've made you think the elite 4 were insanely tough compared to the gym leaders

[@jakeryker3751]

@@RoryTheFiend not necessarily, it did definitively teach me a lesson on why they give us 6 Pokémon😅 Took me a bit longer to figure out your Pokémon don’t need to only have stab moves

[@syncthedingus1306]

Easy: Bruno. Nothing more needs to be said. Hard: Leon actually having a good team caught me off guard, since the rest of the game was so easy.

[@_Koyomi_]

As a kid, I didn't really have a problem with Cynthia. My team was Infernape, Staraptor, Gliscor, Garchomp, Drapion, and Gyarados. I had more trouble against her in Undella Town since she literally came out of nowhere

[@marcstutsman4861]

Ninetales is a potential Agatha Pokemon too if needed, what with the yokai aspects.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Yeah I can totally asee that working for Agatha, if so it would've replaced one of the Gengars!

[@dankester5607]

I honestly always thought Lorelei was the toughest of the Gen 1 Elite Four, since the rest of them could be completely owned by a single Jynx.

[@speedypichu6833]

I will be honest, I found Siebold difficult as a kid. The reason is I had no electric or rock coverage, and my only decent answers were weak to ground, so he just used Dragon Dance and Earthquake, which I didn’t even know what speed or stat boosts do.

[@44whitelightning]

Every elite 4 member should have a full team of 6. Them not having full teams is insane

[@foxiestofstoats]

I'd say Leon was particularly hard, but that's only considering how piss easy everything was before him

[@RoryTheFiend]

Yeah Leon has quite the level jump I can see why nobody could beat him, was satisfying setting up stealth rock and seeing his charizard immediately be on 50% when I played my first time, maybe he shouldn't have kept showing off his charizard!

[@silvereyes92]

For the last Charizard, Im pretty sure swords dance doesn't work together with slash. When a pokemon crits in gen 1, it ignores the stat changes, including the increases

[@RoryTheFiend]

You're correct, swords dance is mainly for earthquake in this instance

[@speedypichu6833]

Important note, in gen 1, crits ignore your stat boosts, so swords dance would not boost Slash’s damage. It doesn’t matter given how limited Charizard (or honestly any Pokémon) are in gen 1.

[@codybutler7742]

QOTD: For a hard e4 member, Draiton had me using X-items and mid battle revives. Mostly cause I'm not good at double battles. As for easy E4 members, even in Nuzzlockes, the only e4 member that has ever given me trouble in xy is Wixtrum. So ig the rest of the Kalos E4.

[@bananaspice1967]

I think if Lance is allowed to cheat, so is the rest. Which only really means something for Agatha. Give her Golbat Sludge for atleast some kind of Poison STAB.

[@shovanrahman1111]

And Fly too for some mediocre Flying STAB as well.

[@AmberLB93]

I struggled against Iris' Archeops in White 2. I had nothing to easily knock it down to defeatist range with so it was tough

[@RoryTheFiend]

Acrobatics Archeops is no joke, Iris is such a fun battle and I love her theme

[@JayClearman411]

No joke at all beating her in challenge mode was a serious trial especially because her entire team had held items An she spammed full restores she is tough.

[@Spoopid0]

Hypno may not be a ghost or poison type but I think it would fit on Agatha's team. If there aren't enough ghost types I would always add hypno to the team.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Yeah I can totally see that working! that's something I never considered for her

[@TechHug]

Actually, giving Alakazam Thunder Wave would have been fine! There are modifications to the AI, and one of them prevents the AI from trying to apply a non-volatile status if there is already one present. So basically, it would always use it first against water and flying, but will use other moves after hitting.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Yeah I looked up the ai on that and I wasn't 100% certain so I played it safe, god imagine that alakazam replacing psybeam with psychic, straight up monster! Thanks for clarifying it for me though I appreciate it!

[@tlst94]

What if Elite Fours always had only four party members(just for pun sakes)? While their levels are always in early 50s. Even in rematches. How'd their battles have been like? Imagine growing up in that parallel universe with altered memories.

[@bloodytyran9245]

Another argument for marowak is that it does have a ghost type in its other form

[@ShinAk1raSama]

For theming, I'd have thought that Ninetales (kyuubi) or Jynx (yama-uba) would have fit well in Agatha's team. A hilarious throwback to a fan theory would be to give her an Electrode. Also, your Lance's Dragonite is basically Pokémon Yellow's but with Thunderbolt instead of Thunder and Ice Beam instead of Blizzard. I'd have given it Blizzard, due to its 90% accuracy.

[@RaxusPrime29]

The problem that both GameFreak and youtubers presented players with their gen 1 rosters for Elite Four and champion is the desperate lack of trainers to earn XP from after fighting Giovanni in Viridian City. Something that caused so many problems in Gen 1, was you would face Giovanni, his ace peaked at level 45, then from their through victory road you needed to somehow level your pokemon up into the 60s to match Gary /Blue I think Gen 2s level caps for Elite Four were more accurate

[@cupasaza495]

I have a bit of a theory, call it a headcanon if you will, that the Kanto elite 4 don't have one type speciality, but rather two. Loreley is a specialist of ice and water, Bruno's got fighting and rock, so on and so forth.

[@cupasaza495]

Not that anyone will know or care about this analogy, but it's like in Destiny's lore, where guardians only master one subclass, while the especially gifted get to use two, making the young wolf the strongest guardian by a mile, being able to master all 5 known elements. Same with pokemon trainers.

[@StormDragonZ]

I remember Ghost-type Shauntal from Gen 5 being more difficult for me than the other Elite Four members of that Generation.

[@RoryTheFiend]

As a ghost type appreciator I'm glad she posed a challenge to some people

[@torringoldstein4814]

I once swept Bruno in Pokemon Yellow with my Bulbasaur who was around Lv.51? With Vine Whip, Solar Beam, Razor Leaf and I think Leech Seed, I was expecting to beat both of his two Onix with just Bulbasaur, but I didn’t know he’d beat Bruno’s entire team lmao.

[@hussarya3380]

I'm curious how would you fix Kanto's Gym Leaders and Elite Four in FireRed or Let's GO. There are more moves, "good AI" isn't a thing, Sp. Atk and Sp. Def are different stats, also Let's GO has Physical/Special Split, Alolan Form and even Mega Evolutions.

[@RoryTheFiend]

I can definitely see myself doing the FireRed LeafGreen games in this video format in the future. it'll give so much more flexibility since so far I've had to cater to gen 1 and gen 2 AI and moves lol

[@redacculous]

Trace but you can't beat him blindfolded while eating a sandwich would be interesting

[@glitch_wurld]

Now let’s fix my father walking out on me

[@jayfeather464]

Will always say Lance is a FLYING trainer not a dragon 😭😂

[@raynmanshorts9275]

Imagine using an Awakening in Gen I after getting the Poke Flute.

[@havoc697]

I remember as a kid, Wallace gave me a hard time because i didn't haven any grass or electric types, only thunderbolt on one of my pals

[@RoryTheFiend]

Yeah water types in general are just super solid with their type matchups, I can see that being a tough one

[@havoc697]

@@RoryTheFiend Its a shame I was a dumb kid who didn't understand type diversity beyond the basics, all my friends had smooth sailing on Emerald with their Sceptiles

[@RoryTheFiend]

@@havoc697 We've all been there Sceptile does appreciate the water region anyway, though Swampert just clowns on the whole region

[@OverZeliousPenguin]

The entire elite four (except Aaron) and Cynthia in BdSp were brutal, they had perfect IVs, full EVs, and they all had held items! This is especially hard since the pre-league game is *exactly the same* as DP. Also I had a vespiquen on my team. :(((

[@OverZeliousPenguin]

Also also this is just salt in the wound since *most* of the post game is really good. Legendary hunting, starter hunting, Poké-radar hunting, battle tower, and Stark mountain were great features. Also also also *ALL* of the legendaries are not shiny-locked!

[@Livvvid]

:25. I'm glad you mentioned this. as a kid in the 90s blue's team and the others WERE hard because for a kid we barely paid attention. but yeah obviously playing, even as a casual pokemon fan now, they're easy.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Yeah when I was a kid pokemon was tough even when I outlevelled them! So here I'm wanting to create something close to what a potential official hard mode would look like

[@aaronowens8941]

I always looked at Agetha as a Poison-type E4 member.

[@devonchafe2764]

Iris could WHOOP you if you weren't careful, haxorus isa monster

[@RoryTheFiend]

Haxorus is such a menace, I'm using one in a playthrough of Black 2 right now

[@chaosbug7]

QotD: I got a few answers •Weak: Bruno is the poster child for this, especially in Gen 1. A strong Psychic type or anything with good Special can completely obliterate the poor guy’s team, and there’s barely anything he can do about it. It doesn’t get much better in gen 2. The entire Kalos E4 can potentially qualify as many of them only have 4 Pokemon and their movesets are underwhelming. Hala in Sun & Moon also has this dishonorable distinction because he is severely lacking moves on his Pokemon. As for tougher E4, Not counting rematches, Lucian can be pretty tough if you don’t bring adequate counters to his team. Heck, 1 of the few things BDSP did decently well was giving Sinnoh’s E4 some dangerous strategies with their teams that can clobber those who aren’t ready for them. Gen 7’s Ultra SM E4 also is one not to take lightly. Same goes for gen 5’s E4, despite them only having 4 mons, they are tougher than they look

[@RoryTheFiend]

Yeah Bruno it's so funny how we all see him as pretty much the weakest elite 4 ever, he does his best but he is not built for this Yup I agree kalos elite 4 isn't anything special And interesting a lot of people have been saying Lucian and I can definitely see why, I do remember him being decently tough for me

[@blind8478]

Nice video, I always theorized about buffing/changing Gyms and their leaders. Let me have a little twist on this: Lorelei: Blastoise instead of Slowbro: It learns ice beam/blizzard and generally fits more into her team imho (particularly since slowbro shares typing with jynx) + all people are supposed to get a starter pokemon so why shouldn't elite 4 use their's as well? Bruno and Agatha are fine Lance: Go Charizard instead of Arbok (OG "should have been a dragon all along" - moment here + same argument as blastoise on lorelei) Champ/Garyy/Blue: Venusaur instead of exeggutor all the time and only switch arcanine/gyarados if necessary -> 1. Blue is supposed to collect pokemon for Oak/Dex, so having acquired a potential 2nd starter pkmn is acceptable. 2. Complete the full starter trio within the elite 4 for some flavour

[@4fpanda657]

Cynthia I stg would get a guaranteed flinch no matter how many times I reset, it cracked my brain at the time.

[@RoryTheFiend]

She's definitely rigging the rng in her favor from time to time

[@igorstark9514]

*Lorelei:* ♦ Dewgong Lv.56 • Surf • Aurora Beam • Body Slam • Growl ♦ Slowbro Lv.56 • Surf • Psychic • Thunder Wave • Amnesia ♦ Cloyster Lv.57 • Clamp • Ice Beam • Spike Cannon • Explosion ♥ Jynx Lv.59 • Lovely Kiss • Ice Punch • Psychic • Reflect ♠ Lapras Lv.60 • Hydro Pump • Blizzard • Confuse Ray • Body Slam *Bruno:* ♣ Primeape Lv.58 • Rock Slide • Low Kick • Karate Chop • Dig ♦ Onix Lv.59 • Rock Slide • Earthquake • Fissure • Explosion ♥ Hitmonchan Lv.61 • Ice Punch • Thunder Punch • Mega Punch • Submission ♥ Hitmonlee Lv.61 • Hi Jump Kick • Meditate • Mega Kick • Double Team ♠ Machamp Lv.62 • Submission • Mega Punch • Seismic Toss • Rock Slide *Agatha:* ♣ Haunter Lv.60 • Hypnosis • Confuse Ray • Night Shade • Dream Eater ♦ Golbat Lv.62 • Confuse Ray • Mega Drain • Wing Attack • Toxic ♦ Gengar Lv.62 • Hypnosis • Psychic • Fire Blast • Explosion ♦ Arbok Lv.62 • Glare • Toxic • Dig • Bite ♦ Gengar Lv.64 • Hypnosis • Thunderbolt • Mega Drain • Psychic *Lance:* ♣ Gyarados Lv.62 • Hydro Pump • Fire Blast • Thunderbolt • Double Edge ♦ Dragonair Lv.62 • Dragon Rage • Ice Beam • Thunder Wave • Body Slam ♦ Charizard Lv.63 • Flamethrower • Fly • Slash • Hyper Beam ♦ Aerodactyl Lv.64 • Rock Slide • Fly • Supersonic • Hyper Beam ♦ Dragonite Lv.66 • Thunder • Fire Blast • Blizzard • Hyper Beam

[@DunYappin]

Bruno was free. I remember getting ate alive by Alder. But if he doesn't count then prolly Lance as a kid. Used to bully me.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Bruno needs to train harder, he's dragging the whole e4 down! and yeah Lance is pretty scary he just has a lot of pokemon with a high base stat total

[@qwertyrhoads9295]

I would've given alakazam Seismic toss instead of psybeam, just because it ignores potential special buffs on the player's part.

[@ivanbluecool]

I would usually use the newest games for upgrades and updates as it gives more balance and variety to it. Easier elite four was probably hoenn and X.

[@RoryTheFiend]

at some point I'll be going over the newer games to redo, that's my long term plan anyway and yeah X had a pretty easy elite 4, I beat it blind while doing a nuzlocke, was pretty fun though

[@ivanbluecool]

@@RoryTheFiend the megas truly are op. Though I liked the hoenn megas more.

[@brandondawson4086]

Kickass Awesome Job on this Video Dude! A couple of changes I would make based on your video is giving dodrio double team instead of double edge to make it more of a nuisance, Alakazam would be really mean and have substitute instead of Psybeam and if the Rival has Charizard, give it body slam instead of Slash since moves that always land a critical hit in Generation 1 ignore stat Buffs and debuffs. Also Ruby and Sapphire should be the next videos.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Thanks Brandon! Yeah I think Dodrio could've been changed as well to maybe have tri attack even though it's worse than body slam since it'd fit better. And you're right on the Body Slam, somehow I didn't consider that when giving charizard swords dance! That being said at the very least auto crit slash can't be bad on him lol Ruby and Sapphire is interesting, Tate and Liza only having 2 mid pokemon would be one gym leader I'd be eager to change (creating a cool double strategy like how they have earthquake claydol and the rest of their team immune to it, will be fun to theory craft)

[@gabler7992]

gen 1 elite 4 is just cosmetic. real last boss of the game lurks in the shallows of cinnabar island. if summoned it can really help you out with items as well as destroy your game from within

[@EduardoLopez-yb9zf]

For lance’s team: I’d replace dragonite’s level to 66 with the moves agility, wrap, ice beam and hyper beam. Aerodactyl lvl 62: with fly, double edge, earthquake ( gen 2 trade) and roar. Blues team: Venusaur level 72: Toxic, leech seed, razor leaf, and bodyslam 😅😀

[@RoryTheFiend]

That's some cool ideas, I'd say though watch out because the ai is so bad in red and blue that lance will use agility over and over again on any poison or fighting types thinking he's hitting you with super effective psychic attacks! (the ai is so ridiculous in those games o_o) Toxic leech seed on venusaur is cool because theres another bug that makes them work really well together! Good idea!

[@Mobtrapper-hq8is]

What are your opinions on how LGPE handled the elite 4?

[@yokaipinata1416]

Amazing work. ❤Also totally loved how you borrowed from Clair's book for the Dragonair, and from Let's Go for Agatha (namely, I'm pretty sure she had Marowak there-- an Alolan one, since that's a thing in that game, but just the nod to the Pokémon Tower plotline alone more than justifies the whole thing). A bit surprised you didn't replace the Golbat given the lack of real options you acknowledged yourself, but the justification makes sense. Arbok for Lance definitely was innovative here. Not exactly the most dragonesque thing around, but as far as our roster's options go, a snake makes the cut just fine. I was half-expecting Seadra, but I guess that would have been too redundant on Gyarados. A minor note, but I've always found it weird that when people name the traditional starter type core, they say it in the order of "Fire, Water, Grass", when going off the way the Pokédex, and consequently the moment of the choice in the games, order the starters, it should be "Grass, Fire, Water". Nothing against you specifically, nor some petty complaint, just something I consider an oddity in the fanbase at large.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Thank you so much! sorry for the late response some comments slip through the cracks but I randomly decided to deep dive and see if there's any cool comments I missed! Yeah I try and pull inspiration from several different sources, but at the same time not lean too heavily into that and use my own justifications and pokemon that make sense thematically but haven't been used by the trainers before, it's an interesting balance to go for anyway lol Yeah for Lance I did consider seadra but ultimately I decided to not go for it since Gyarados exists and kinda 1 ups seadra (sorry seadra), and yeah Arbok because it is a snake like and well that's along the lines of a dragon, well as close as you can reach for gen 1 standards. Also interesting comment, yeah fire water grass core sounds right to say doesn't it but you're right grass comes first so you'd think it'd be said first then, interesting point I have never even thought of before. Also just for that I wanna say a random thing: Fighting, Rock, Flying form a type match up like Grass, Water, Fire, it'd be cool to see those 3 types as secondary types for starters to double up on the rock paper scissors vibe they have going on, or balance it out so each starter ends up being sort of more neutral to each other in the end o_0

[@yokaipinata1416]

@@RoryTheFiend Yes, that's kind of what I didn't like about Gen 6 doing secondary typings of Fighting, Psychic and Dark; they arranged it to double down on the existing matchups, when it would have been more interesting to invert it so that every starter is vulnerable to both of the others. No worries about the late reply. I actually feel very pleasantly surprised when something I said several weeks back suddenly gets addressed. It gives me something to direct my attention towards. ❤️ I never did elaborate on why I thought of Seadra, but it's because iirc Lance actually has one in Let's Go. However, it's not like we're here to simply copy what others have done without further insight, and as we already agreed, it would just be redundant when he also has Gyarados

[@RoryTheFiend]

@@yokaipinata1416 I thought the same with the gen 6 starters (btw fixing kalos gym leaders is on my to-do list next) I totally agree that it'd be cool sure they start off mono type water loses to grass but when they evolves now the water starter actually can threaten the grass starter, and therefore ultimately your rivals don't have a 1-up against you (or 1-down) but no matter what starter you pick you have to be weary of the other two with it being more evenly matched. Well I'm glad you were pleasantly surprised honestly I was not expecting a response especially this quickly lol, sorry if my responses were a bit poor grammatically it's 2:30am here. but yeah thank you for your comment If you end up watching my kalos video I hope you enjoy it, gonna be fun trying to toughen those guys up

[@yokaipinata1416]

@@RoryTheFiend I'm definitely interested and will try to look at that video shortly after it drops, Gen 6 really just needs a complete makeover to its game design. ❤️ And yes, I have a thing for replying immediately to things in general, albeit I can't always do so as of late. Its ironic because I tend to take a long time to get any tasks done, but when someone messages me? I'm already on it two seconds later.

[@reillywalker195]

Lance in Gen II did me in until I realized that I could and should teach Ice Punch to my Feraligatr and bring Lapras to the fight.

[@RoryTheFiend]

gen 2 elemental punches are god sends for giving your team great coverage, it's so cool that typhlosion gets thunderpunch as well

[@reillywalker195]

@@RoryTheFiend Typhlosion and Feraligatr are both solid. My Feraligatr in Gen II and Gen IV knew Surf, Ice Punch, and Dig, with Dig making him especially good for taking on Jasmine and useful for exploring caves.

[@RoryTheFiend]

@@reillywalker195 All that just makes Meganium look even worse in comparison, rip

[@Zurielprime]

I'd say Fearow is a good pick for Blue: it's not much weaker than dodrio, he can get it at the same route we meet him twice, and feels like an "evil counterpart" to the bird most kids picked on their first run, Pidgeot. A fun gimmick would also let him have the opposite Nido to the version the player is on, so a Nidoking for Blue players and Nidoqueen for Red players. They are ground types, like Rhydon, also met at the same route as Fearow and could taunt the player if they don't have the rarer one.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Yeah Fearow or Dodrio perform similarly, they both get Drill Peck which is the main thing imo That's such a cool concept I never thought about, changing his team slightly depending on the version is an awesome idea!

[@AverageEggmonEnthusiast]

Marowak is extra perfect because not only is it a fantastic call back to the Pokémon tower, but Agatha uses an Alolan Marowak in her Let’s Go rematch team.

[@RoryTheFiend]

Oh yeah tbh I didn't even realise that as I've not played let's Go, but it makes sense since Marowak is a ghost type in it!

[@AverageEggmonEnthusiast]

@@RoryTheFiend it’s a great game to play with a friend or family member but I don’t recommend it if you like your Pokémon to be serious. It’s extremely easy and has such advanced techniques as “baddy bad”.

[@WTC-1990]

This is how I'd run it if I was in charge Lorelei - water / ice *Defensive core:* _Dewgong / Blastoise / Chansey_ *Attacking core:* _Slowbro / Cloister / Lapras_ ----------------------------------------------- Bruno - fighting / ground, not Rock *Defensive core:* _Kangaskhan / Sandslash / Golem_ *Attacking core* _Hintmonchan / Hintmonlee / Marchamp_ Replace Golem with Steelix for later games --‐-------------------------------------------- Agatha - Ghost / Poison *Defensive core:* _Arbok / Venasaur / Tentacruel_ *Attacking core:* _Golbat / Marowak / Gangar_ --------------------------------------------- Lance - flying / dragon *Defensive core:* _Snorlax / Gyarados / Scyther_ *Attacking core:* _Aerodactyl / Charazard / Dragonite_ -----------‐‐--------------------------------- Theme of having 1 pokemon outside of the type Marowak for Agatha Snorlax for Lance Kangaskhan for Bruno Chansey for Lorelei

[@moralessanchezoscarelias6412]

Nice vid! There is a bug / secret feature in Gen 1, that causes Body Slam to only inflict paralysis when the user is a Normal type pokemon. Also: The Yellow version has way better movesets! Never knew that they were so lame in RB versions!

[@RoryTheFiend]

Yeah wasn't that a fairly recent discovery? Like people for the longest time just thought they were unlucky not getting the para when body slaming normal types? Yeah yellow did a decent job improving the RB bosses, seriously just brunos team as a whole is so bad

[@AlexBelte3002]

I think the bug is not working that way : body slam does paralyze whether it's used by a normal type or not, but the thing is, if i remember well, that body slam CAN'T paralyze normal types pokemons

[@TheBlackSerpentBeta]

I have never lost to Cynthia. Ever Lucian, however, has always been a pain in the ass. I remember being stuck on him for months on the original pearl Took me and age to get over him and when I did, I just batted Cynthia out of the way to become champion

[@RoryTheFiend]

That's interesting, Lucian is definitely a strong Elite 4 member so I can understand that, did you have a team particularly weak to psychic or anything?

[@TheBlackSerpentBeta]

@@RoryTheFiend If I remember right, I had a team of: Empoleon, Staraptor, Lucario, Palkia, Luxray and Gastrodon (very certian on the first 4, not sure on the last 2, as I don't have the cart anymore and only really remember my post game team that had Gallade & Froslass on it I think it was just my movesets were utter garbage, as I managed to beat the elite 4 after boosting my team with some TMs

[@RoryTheFiend]

@@TheBlackSerpentBeta that's some cool Pokémon choices and yeah same for me when I played as a kid, I had return haunter, gyarados with surf hydro pump strength and rock smash, I had no clue what I was doing lol