[RR] WORLD'S CROOKEDEST RAILWAY - INSANE curves and hills! The Mt. Tamalpais

[@bobmanfre5083]

My Great-Grandfather, Charlie 'Chuck' Adams used to be a Bar Tender at the Mt. Tamalpais Tavern from about 1905 to 1912. He passed down some great stories of how the passengers were so flustered by the time they reached the Tavern that they would just drink as much as possible to make the return trip more tolerable. Unfortunately, when they reached the bottom, they were still pretty drunk and would stumble around for a few hours.

[@Hyce777]

That is incredible.

[@catfish552]

Sounds like they had a solid business model!

[@steeljawX]

@@catfish552 Oh imagine how it'd be today. "Medical" spliff dealers and "therapeutic" hooka bars all down at the bottom to get people just all buzzed and chill to go up that thing. The mountain air sobers them up to where they're wiggin' out at the top. They drink their anxiety away to then take the trip back down to hit up the dealers and bars again. An endless cycle. 🤣

[@JamesBrown-dg8le]

Kinda reminds me of the Seabees story from citation needed

[@michaelimbesi2314]

1. Yes, make it a series. 2. Today, I have learned what the exact opposite of the Lackawanna Cutoff is.

[@RAZGR1ZGaming]

Would love a video on the Lackawanna Cutoff one crazy project.

[@patrickmcneilly4293]

Oh god you're right. It's basically the Old Road but compressed and wiggly.

[@the630foamer]

The sharper the curve, the more fun

[@Alawo-]

Hell yea bruda🔥

[@F40M07]

Yeah until you derail…

[@NoahDutkewycz]

But that’s the fun part

[@keithv708]

So true

[@F40M07]

@@NoahDutkewycz 💀

[@JonsGarage89]

That is insane. I LOVE how decorative that Shay is. Yes PLEASE make this a series.

[@ostsan8598]

The standard gauge railroad that thought narrow gauge was too conservative with its curves.

[@wilfstor3078]

You know a railroad has absolutely scuffed grades, when it exclusively hauls passengers, yet it's roster consists almost entirely of Heislers and Shay's...

[@Bigrednumber77]

Fun fact: I helped rebuild the equestrian trails in the area when I was in the California Conservation Corps. Mainly the Miwok trail system and a few surrounding trails.

[@miscme6046]

thank you for your work we need more trails like that out here on the east coast

[@CMDRSweeper]

I got some bad news for you... You are to head back up there, the railroad need to be rebuilt again... :D

[@traincrazymotive]

Kenosha off the bat, you know we're gonna wreck 346 with this one

[@NWFProductions]

Please make this a series, as it his hilarious, informational, and downright fun to watch, and gasp at.

[@GP30_Foamer]

About that NPC 21 tangent at 19:49 - I still refuse to believe that the only readily available mass produced model of 21 is a f***ing Thomas The Tank Engine character lmao

[@albanyandeastern_fan1807]

The fact that the Uintah didn’t run Shay’s over Morro Castle because they didn’t fit going one way and then there’s the Tam who put STANDARD GAUGE Shay’s around a 90 degree curve!!! Good lord! 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️ Great video as usual Hyce! This should definitely be a series!

[@royreynolds108]

The Uintah RR ran Shays over Morro Castle and the whole railroad. The URR ordered No 50 the 2-6-6-2T from Baldwin to run on the 7.5% grades with 66* curves. There is a photo of No 50 after completion in the Baldwin plant going around a 66* curve to prove it would work. After No 50 was delivered and set up, on the first trip up over Baxter Pass, the water in the glass dropped out of site because Baldwin had not adjusted the crown sheet in the firebox for the 7.5% grade coming down. The fireman left and did not return. Baldwin had to change the crown sheet so she could continue running. No 50 and then No 51 were successful; they were straight articulateds, not Malleys or compounds, they hauled twice the number of cars as the Shays did and faster. Later, a 2-8-0 was acquired, dismantled, hauled over the Pass, and reassembled for use on the north end of the railroad where the curves were not very sharp. All trains had to have flat cars between the passenger cars because of roof overhang clearance problems. The air hose connections were above the couplings because of lack of room below the couplings.

[@RileytheRailRunner]

From one bird-man to another….my brain hurts. Like, HOW did this even EXIST?

[@shimesu443]

That is the prettiest Shay I've ever seen, and one of the prettiest locomotives I've ever seen, period. Glad at least one of them is still with us today.

[@leechowning2712]

Cursed trains... the LINES saga. Love the idea. We would be up for it, yes.

[@Pensyfan19]

Great video! I'd love to see more episodes in this series. It's nice to give some lesser known railroads like this some time in the spotlight.

[@FuelFire]

Porterfield & Ellis next?

[@Hyce777]

That's the hope!

[@bluejacketwarrior2457]

And of course Spinoto's favorite railroad is the first one. XD

[@Hyce777]

Naturally, lol!

[@FuelFire]

sBinotto also knows a ton about the Porterfield & Ellis, which is why I hope they make the next episode about that

[@peregrina7701]

I've been waiting for this since I found the channel and sBinotto summoned himself when the words "Mt Tam" were spoken. That was a year and a half ago. Worth the wait!! More mad railways please! Two observations: 1) I think they were on the hairy edge of the wheels falling into the gauge getting the trains to not bind in the curves..... 2) the Double Bowknot had me almost shouting "That's what switchbacks are for!!!!!" Thanks Hyce, sBinotto and Antimatter!! :)

[@jollyjohnthepirate3168]

You should look at the Maryland and Pennsylvania (Ma&Pa) railroad. It started as a narrow gage and was converted to standard.

[@bdvids7930]

Love this video I think you should do a video about Roaring camp railroads estimated 10.5% grade because it’s nuts in my opinion

[@user-Duckmaster22]

It's not common that the 3 foot railroad is runing fast passenger trains and the standard gauge one has 20+ 70 foot radius curves it's shoude be the other way around.

[@royreynolds108]

The MT&MW RR ran the Shays and Heisler smokebox downgrade pushing the cars except for the gravity cars. It used oil for fuel. There was a lot of axle breakage until the shop crew tried axles tapered smaller in the center and that fixed the axle breakage. Another problem was the Heisler shaft bearing under the cab floor was wearing out very quickly when the loco was traveling slowly and nobody could understand why; on an unbound trip, one of the mechanics happened to notice that some of the sand for cleaning the flues was spilling down onto the drive shaft and the bearing whereupon a sheet metal shield was affixed to protect the bearing. The 0-4-0 was used on the straight section as a commuter train loco. The CTA has a curve of 90 feet of radius on the EL on the NE corner of the Loop and the connection from the Westbound track to the Northbound line at the tower on the NW corner of the Loop.

[@mateokuo7502]

A: Loved this format and I want more because it's really interesting to hear about cursed things. B: Sorry to bring up CoS here, but 19:47; does this mean we get an interchange with the Mount Tam in CoS? (This is meant more as a joke than a question)

[@Hyce777]

Lol....

[@QuintonMurdock]

5:26 saw that curve and it reminded me Baxter pass and I was hoping my hometown legend would get mentioned. Love the URY so much

[@kholdanstaalstorm6881]

My Gods! No wonder the enthusiasm that this has been brought forwards as a cursed railroad, not only it has the squiggly lines up a mountain easily rivaling a Norwegian mountain road, but it has joined forces with an runner up cursed railroad that they're dual gage together with at the bottom station... You just have to be in awe and mind boggled at the same time about the brilliant engineering and absolute lunacy that birthed this feat... So, within the brain haze this has produced, I gotta recognize not only the knowledge on show from the co hosts but the very clear and concise delivery they both bring to the video. Paired with the always off the rails elated Hyce about anything railroad, the spectacular way that education flows through and the *Chef's Kiss* Magnificent reactions to the subject matter, this is core to the channel's main focus and should absolutely be a series! The only thing that eclipses the rest of the facts from this entire video, is that colorized picture of the immaculate gem of a locomotive, talk about showing off their pride, skills and dedication to the railroad they're serving! I've been to technical museums and seen feature displays of their main exhibits looking down right grimy and recently run compared to that workhorse in regular operation, that picture looks like it barely has left the assembly hall for the first time ever! Thank you all for this tidbit insight into an another unknown outside of the railroad community part of railroading history, more fascinating than I ever imagined, so I sincerely appreciated this video!

[@philngood4969]

Awesome video with detailed explanations, great photos & old movies. Loved it! Walking or mountain biking the Railroad Grade Road from Blithedale Canyon or Fern Canyon Road to Double Knot, the West Point Inn and the top of Mount Tam gives a good idea of how crooked & weird this railroad was. Plus it is a heavenly treat full of incredibly beautiful views and wildlife sounds one can only experience on site. Yes please continue the series on weird railroads. Beautiful research & thanks for sharing it!

[@CinemaRepository]

Awesome video! I didn't know about this and we've been up there before! Gonna have to go back and take a closer look.

[@chrischili1947]

So happy to see my hometown railroad be covered in a hyce video. Definitely needs to be a series!

[@737Garrus]

DEFINETLY make it into a series!

[@49commander]

Love it, how interesting! I love people who have wild ideas, actually build them and make them work! I bet there were many "experts" that said it wouldn't work!!!!

[@osageorangegaming5128]

Yeah, definitely needs to be a series outta this- had some 0.0 moments out of it. Also at 20:35 the look of "Brain is BREAKING!" is priceless.

[@QuorkQTar]

4:35 For us in any other country, a 70 ft radius is a bit more than 21 metres. For comparison, standard gauge trams in Germany usually have a minimum radius (outside of yards and shops, that is) of 25 m (there are exceptions, of course), light rail 50 m and actual railways mostly keep to not much less than 200 m. Crazy line with a nice story. Lovely!

[@Bassotronics]

I sooo wanna get a Big Boy to test those tracks!

[@andrewreynolds4949]

I absolutely want this as a series

[@MK.5198]

I SO want this to be a series. hell yes

[@thomasedsell430]

Thank you sir, I'm a Stone throw from the former KCS now CPKC

[@theswiss7f500]

I need more of this, single-handedly one of my favourite railroads hands down

[@joshuarosen465]

The train to Machu Picchu is just as extreme and its still in operation. The railroad is a series of switchbacks thats traversed by reversing direction on each turn. I road it in the mid 90s.

[@ScottKew-g8r]

One of the first passenger cars was a used cable car put on standard gauge trucks. Also the chief mechanic created a water tank drawing off the injector spill over for lubing the flanges on the wheels.

[@patricksheary2219]

Uhhhh, Wow! Otherwise speechless, Mark! That was fabulous! What an ultra-amazing scenic line the Mt. Tamalpais. The choo choos were crazy beautiful, imagine seeing them when new all beautifully painted and polished! So lovely to hear of the Friends of Number 9 and their restoration efforts. Also, the buildings as well every architectural look from shingle, rustic and colonial revival styles. Amazing! Many thanks to Spinoto and Antimatter for the great description of this railroad. Mark, yes please create more Ridiculous RR episodes. Loved this! As always Professor another beautiful learning moment and thanks again for making this. Cheers to you Mark, Spinoto and Antimatter!

[@jasonschoenmann2308]

No way! This is literally in my back yard. I ride my bike up the old right of way every weekend. I knew the railroad existed but it’s wild to see it all in pictures.

[@Pyrotrainthing]

I am pleased to hear they used Shays & Heislers. Those are my top 2 favorite Geared Engines!

[@jacobramsey7624]

Would love to see this turned into a series indeed!! This is a great video, and I enjoyed learning about this railroad. It reminds me of the Mount Washington Cog Railway that climbs the tallest mountain in my state and would love to see a video on it from you guys!

[@brandonwalker272]

Great idea for a series.

[@Bayareaandbeyond777]

I grew up in Mill Valley and would ride my BMX bike down the old railroad grade all the time in the late 70s. I always dreamed of what it would've been like when the train was there. Anyway, it was a fun bike ride down. Great video. I also lived in Capitola in 1971, and that town has a trestle running right over it. That's where I fell in love with trains. Maybe do a video about Capitola train history.

[@boxcarwillies1603]

Maybe we can hear about the Uintah Railroad Sometime? It’s a pretty famous crooked railroad too, with 90 degree curves no less!

[@Hyce777]

66 degree max, at moro castle, iirc. It's on the list.

[@maxnash8450]

As somebody from the bay area, it's great to see this obscure railway get the attention it deserves. Perhaps you could cover the Ocean Shore next?

[@Oterion]

More videos like this would be appreciated! Was entertaining and informative, and a very good addition to the variety of content on your channel IMO.

[@wtierce1]

The water based flange lubrication system is an interesting thing that I have just realized I have actually seen in action! I had the pleasure of going to Cass Scenic not to long ago and noticed that there were water lines pouring water on the wheels on Shay 11 that was pushing our train up. I was wondering at the time what the purpose of that was, and now I know! It's cool that system is still in use!

[@wxdave5448]

I love it! So wish it and the taverns were still operational. I would right and stay without hesitation.

[@brianhubert8418]

What a crazy but cool operation those curves are insane. It's too bad this isn't still around. I bet it would be a huge attraction. The gravity trips sound like a great time. I'm hoping this starts a new series.

[@SteamfanScott]

So cool to learn about the Tam! So unfortunate that line couldn’t make it into the preservation era, it would have been such a spectacular and scenic experience. And yes please, more of this series! 👏

[@OfficialDenverRioGrandeWestern]

this my layouts curves IRL 👀👀👀

[@Hyce777]

No, it's worse.

[@BrooksMoses]

It's absolutely worse. In HO scale, that 70'-radius curve is tighter than 10" radius. (Edit: Oh, I see, you mentioned that later.)

[@PowerTrain611]

That track map is so cursed. It looks like one of those molds/fungi that grows its way through a maze to get to the oat.

[@JacobHofeldt-fq6ii]

series about wacky railroad history such as this? yes please.

[@captainhuggyface6731]

With all those curves it would be great for a compact model railroad.... Wait a minute.... Hey Ferb I know what were gonna do today.

[@westernnewyorkrailfan]

Great show today! Watching for a second time!! Definitely make a series out of these stories, another great style of content on the Hyce channel🚂

[@patrickoguinn4553]

I always watch the closing credits to the end. Great steam locomotive video.

[@VintageRenewed]

That arch kinda reminds me of a mining town in Idaho called Burke Idaho which was in such a narrow canyon that Main Street was also the railroad line and the hotel in town actually had to split the lobby in two sections to that the train could pass through the lobby area

[@Bassotronics]

Those tight curves are common for subway trains which use standard gauge but for steamers, it’s sure is a bit tight although NYC trains stared using steamers and curves just as tight in many areas.

[@ewhac]

I first learned about this from my fifth grade teacher who was a railfan. According to him, one of the key events that killed the railroad was a large fire the destroyed that hotel/restaurant at the summit as well as some of the track. More personally, my grandfather used to work for Southern Pacific railway. When he passed, I ended up receiving a small pile of rail passes he'd collected through the years -- including two for the Mount Tam railway. I still have them somewhere...

[@sirrliv]

I love this series so much! Yes, by all means, please keep this up as an ongoing series! Not only is there SO much material on crazy railways out there, but it's great to see some of the extended Hyce gang coming on to share their obsession and their more obscure knowledge. Some future subjects that come to mind: 1. Obviously Ep. 2 is going to be the Porterfield & Ellis of many a livestream fame; the wacky rollercoaster with the 17-20 percent grades with dinky little 4-4-0 teakettles hitting 100 mph on jointed rail. Can't wait to recreate that in Century of Steam. 2. The Mauch Chunk Switchback Railroad. Ellis and Nick Ozorak might be able to help a bit with that one, being some of your Eastern contingent. Sometimes called one of the world's first rollercoasters, it also still exists as a walking trail, Mauch Chunk having been renamed Jim Thorpe. 3. The San Diego & Arizona Eastern, aka "The Impossible Railroad". Wings & Strings did a whole episode about that on the "Well There's Your Problem" podcast and it's one of my favorites. Definitely worth a 30-minute spotlight on Murphy's Law: The Railroad. 4. Going overseas, you've got to do at least a short episode on the Brighton & Rottingdean Seashore Electric Railway, aka "Daddy Longlegs". A combination Train-Boat-Pier thing. The only train in the world that required a captain and a lifeboat!

[@desmondk-o7148]

As someone who has spent a good portion of their life in the San Fran area (my grandmother used to live there and we would often visit her twice a year) I can't believe I never knew about the Mt Tam before now! I've literally even stayed in Bolinas, the town they wanted to extend the railway to! I also wonder if anyone has plans to ever try to rebuild the railway again and try to run it, because I honestly feel like today, there might really be enough people that would actually pay to ride on it that it might work; and of course if they can restore the one of the old heislers you showed near the end of the video, and run it on the railway, that would be SO incredible (although knowing what california is like with environmental regulations, IDK if they even let you run *any* kind of steam engine in the state)

[@TheSmokyMountain1495]

Hyce why are you looking at my Railroads Online track laying?😂 Jokes aside, love this series already, can’t wait for more!

[@HighballMachineWorks]

The curves look like a full scale version of o27 without the center rail!

[@michelinman8592]

ABSOLUTLEY make this a series, please! When time allows of course. 🙂 It's a rotten shame that cars came in and killed off a whacky treasure of a railway, but maybe it was for the best.

[@12361870]

I can’t even fathom how tight those curves were! Man I woulda loved to go there if I was around in that time

[@barryvandraiss6083]

YES! Please make this topic a series! Hope you all enjoyed Fourth of July!

[@greeneyedggirl]

I would have LOVED to ride that. I noticed there's even a Wye on the side of that mountain! Far out!

[@patrickoguinn4553]

I have lived in California all my life and I never heard of this railroad. Thanks

[@spencerdodd3400]

The crazy makes it so much better

[@TRAINLORD_TF]

"just because you could doesnt mean you should" fits here lol. On a more serious note, the effort that must have went into building this is mindboggling just to not use the intended Equipment. The Clips of the Trains navigating the Curves were... just wow. Dont know what you have planned to Top that, but i will be looking forward to it.

[@yukonxl5723]

this would be a fun series

[@Zoeymacelroy0811]

I think this could make a great podcast series

[@44R0Ndin]

If this was built today, the railroad would likely have brought in roller coaster engineers as consultants if not directly into the design process. This is every bit as ridiculous as you say it is and probably even more than that. Reminds me of some of the crazy stuff I make trains do in Factorio, which I probably really shouldn't do, but it works anyways because the trains magically stick to the rails no matter how fast or slow they're going, the max speed is close enough to 300km/hr that nobody really cares, and the minimum radius of a curve is... all of like 16 meters, or 52 feet, or 104 foot diameter. In fact, because it's a game, that's the ONLY radius of curve you can use (update in October will allow more flexibility and larger curves, and elevated trains, which is all nice but it's not here yet). In Factorio, the trains, at 300km/hr, will not so much as grumble at being forced thru a curve of such a tight radius. IRL if you tried that, you'd need the OPPOSITE of maglev to make the train stick to the rails. You'd need magnets making the train STICK to the rails. Or of course, you could switch to rails of a roller coaster style that fully control the motion of the rolling stock no matter which direction the forces are coming from.

[@michgeeson278]

amazing and yes I would like to hear more about the crazy railways of america

[@BigBoyProductions-zl9rd]

# hyce Needs to bring back this railroad. It could bring up a lot of profits in the railroad industry.

[@rottenroads1982]

An example of a Mountain Railway that is Not a Cogwheel Railway. And it’s Standard Gauge. Cool.

[@jeffreymcconnell6794]

I’m planning a N Scale logging railroad and my tightest turns will be 9” radius. 9” in HO?!? Mind Blown! BTW, love the idea of this new series!

[@railfanjamie6147]

Do one on the V&T!

[@caseyvillemodelrailroad3877]

Great vidio, maybe an idea for my Yard layout. Thanks for the morning coffee...

[@eddingtonrailroading]

70ft radius is definitely a curve Hyce would build

[@sheacd1]

That would be fun on one of those rail go cart things...

[@DC4260Productions]

The Tam would make for a great Train Simulator add-on. On the subject of wacky railways, may I suggest looking into the Driving Creek Railway here in New Zealand? It's a 15inch gauge line that runs up the side of a hill, complete with two spirals, five switchbacks, three tunnels and a double-decker bridge. It's nuts.

[@abyssminiaturestudios6103]

Would love to here more about ridiculous railroads from America and abroad.

[@ScottKew-g8r]

I am guessing that curve in the photo of West Point Inn must be about a 15 in radius curve in H O Scale. The chief mechanic also realized that tapering the axles slightly let the axle twist a bit and not snap.

[@bluescrew3124]

This is nuts

[@SimonDickerson]

Hey Hyce! You really should check out some South African steam locomotives, specifically the Red Devil. The locomotives are absolutely ginormous yet they run on 3’6” track. The Red Devil even has valve gear calculated by a computer! You should have a look, because they are some of the biggest revenue earning steam engines left.

[@rescues_greyhounds]

Please make this a series! What in the wide wide world of sports made them think “this will do.”?

[@FelrinKirla]

Can't wait for the RR episode on the Rio Grande Southern, if it comes out

[@HopelessRailmantic]

For the second show of this series, the Marion Carry Railroad. The shortest standard gauge railroad at 0.7 of a mile. Both lumber and passenger service with rare mixed deliveries. One of the passenger cars and the last locomotive are in preservation.

[@tulsatrash]

I want more about this railroad. But I also want episodes about other mad railroads.

[@Living_Life_RN]

Can’t wait for the Uintah episode

[@crystalrock18]

I know myself I would like to see a new series called “crazy railroads in history” that would be cool!

[@davespringer962]

We want a series!

[@larrylawson5172]

What can you say beyond, WOW!. What the ___? or How the ___? Yes, let's enjoy a series of weird. You might look at the Alishan Forest Railway in Taiwan. American Shays still in use. Looks like a wonderful odd ball in the woods that is beautifully operated and maintained.

[@FlakusCorporation]

Methinks this ‘road’ is a good candidate for reconstruction. There’s a lot of potential energy to be tapped into on the downhill run.

[@steveboguslawski114]

The Double Bow Knot section looks like the railroad equivalent of a Wild Mouse style roller coaster.

[@ConnorwithanO]

An entire railroad that you can model in your room!

[@detroitdiesel1776]

ah yes headed out on my run and new hyce video