Should You Change Your Running Cadence? | TRC PODCAST

[@SimonMountjoy]

The Running Channel deserve some kudos, you've really upped your game lately. Putting out some really good information these days. So many KZbin and Instagram pages just regurgitate the same old tired clichés and when challenged they have no idea why they're saying what they're saying.

[@runningchannel]

Thanks Simon - really appreciate that.

[@markjohnson4237]

Changing my cadence and running to specific cadence zones using a metronome has absolutely transformed my running. I now use it quite regularly as a gauge for specific sessions, speed work etc but NOT my easy runs. And I definitely use it when racing as a way of pacing myself, especially early on in races. Since doing this, I've placed for the first time in my running career. I have won my age category and also beaten my 12 year old half marathon PB at the age of 56 (1:39:39). Cadence has literally been life changing for me. :)

[@ThatRunnerAaron]

Ricks realisation that Andy’s stride length was 2m was hilarious - yes, this guy was one of the fastest guys in the world at the time! Easy to forget!

[@topoisomerace]

I really want the "Andy trains/races his first marathon" series.

[@Cozwantsthatpie]

@@topoisomeraceI really hope so too I think Andy is supposed to do his first marathon in December

[@Burps___]

Cadence discussion begins here 5:43. You’re welcome. 🏃‍♀️

[@mikej443]

thank you

[@michaelrockow5461]

I'm glad I am not the only one who spends 40 minutes trying to fix a setting on my running watch.

[@runningchannel]

:D

[@carlhumanbcrab]

Im with rick. i have a degree in computer science. My job is software development and i was also super confused at how to change my watch from miles to km

[@jassaljs]

🤔

[@jimcrants7517]

I'm an American, but my last Fitbit presented temperatures to me in Celsius. I found it much easier to get used to Celsius than it was to make my watch report temperatures in Fahrenheit.

[@alanshrimpton6787]

You made me look. I'm 59, 162cm 5'4" so probably don't stride out as much but my 3:08 Marathon 186spm 1.22m and my 10k race today was 188spm 1.30m. Both were relatively flat races. My easy runs are 180spm & 1.02m

[@mikeheath2050]

Loving this channel in past month or so. It’s been helping me get up to date and I’ll defo be sharing it with my running partners and young runners here. I’m a short runner but never had the benefit of people coaching me on this back in the day, it would have been really helpful. Keep up the great work guys.

[@runningchannel]

Thanks Mike, really appreciate it.

[@tedland3016]

Glad this one has come up i was wondering when watching the 20min 5 km video, i counted Andy doing 188 strides. i gave up trying to work out his stride length. think it was the 3:35min pace. thanks all

[@michaelchiller2494]

I watch the podcast from Melbourne Australia. It is very enjoyable listening to the banter. Keep up the good work legends.

[@runningchannel]

Thanks for watching!

[@slowloris1847]

The cadence topic was fascinating. I went back and checked my 5k times since december, which have improved from 26:10 to 20:59 this weekend. My average cadence has gone from 163 to 170, while my stride length has also gone up from 1.2 to 1.4m. I think this has been due to a focus on my running form, along with more endurance work, meaning I could sustain that (good) form for longer.

[@susanball2406]

Great episode! It once took me about half an hour to manually change the clock time on my Garmin. Rick, I feel your pain. Also the cadence chat was spot on for me. I've always been a plodder- like in 150 territory. Just this past week I've been consciously trying to speed it up (slightly wonky Achilles), and have found that at 160 it both feels easier on my legs and that I'm naturally faster.

[@rajaiskandars]

Thanks for this podcast. I was surely one of those who were deceived from the 20 min 5k run by Andy. 2m stride length is truly mammoth 😀. Awesome sharing and podcast.

[@anthonyhickling8867]

I did EMF on Sunday and was manually calculating the necessary times for sub 4 hour before each mile mark as I didn’t have anything else to do to pass the time. All the calculations get a lot easier after 20 miles

[@skirtonbear1]

My FleetFeet coach heard me complain about my hip pain-tinier steps became my mantra, then quicken the pace. Shortening my stride and upping my cadence were key to my recovery and my gains.

[@michaelhaney1357]

Similar. I’m recovery from Achilles tendinitis and increase my cadence< on the recommendation from my PT, and its really reduced the strain on my Achilles.

[@clivemills672]

Caidance is also impacted by the terrain. Steep hills i purposely decrease my caidance to drive forward so my foot spends more time on the ground pushing forward.

[@zsos6182]

Global navigation satellite system (GNSS) is a generic term describing any satellite position sistem, GPS is an American sistem that was first and most widely used, now we have Europe Gallileo, Russian Glonass and so on... So GPS is a type of GNSS. Most new watches can use more then one or even all sistems at once (multisistem) and some can additionally use multiple frequency (multiband) within same sistem to be even more accurate. But neverthe less 1% in mesured distance is a common error, it is still just a small device with a small antenna and small battery that we shake all the time 😊 BTW love the podcast, keep going, love technogeek ❤

[@jorgmuhlhans3065]

My cadence is at 160 for years now, I'm trying to get it up at least a little bit. Strangely, my Polar Grit X shows me 80, so only calculating double steps I guess? Also, all of my watches (3 Polar) were off with the distance, which is quite a problem when I use the pacemaker function. In this years Vienna City (Half-)Marathon, I reached the finish line with 21.45K with my target pace (4:58) trusting my watch I would have lost 1:44 minutes and this is really bad, I would have done the race at pace 5:03 trusting the race pace setting. Brilliant episode btw, I really love your channel, all of your videos are so informative and also really funny :-)

[@pballfin]

Another banger of an episode. I absolutely love listening to the three of you and love the topics and your dynamic!

[@scriptosaurusrex]

Garmin's are just generally difficult to use, and worse yet, inconsistent. On some watches you change things in the app, in others on the watch and on some you can do it on both. I can't speak for all other brands, but on coros it's a universal setting, in the app, that automatically then applies to all your watches. Simple.

[@christiankolstad7685]

As a serious runner, the English humour starts to grow on me :)

[@geoffclarke3796]

Interesting chat about running cadence. I did an interval session today of 5 x 1K and my cadence was 185spm but has varied from 175 to 190. I feel Rick's pain when changing his auto lap settings. I have a Garmin 235 and for the most part prefer the auto lap in the default setting of miles but would like to change it to Kilometers when say running a 5K but have never figured out how to change it.

[@squarebodylt5469]

I’m getting ready to get a Garmin Forerunner 735. Technologically challenged myself. I’ll probably learn from You Tube!

[@julietwistguernsey]

I'm with you Rick - my parkrun is 4.98 or 4.99 every week. I was told that it's allowed to be slightly under but not over! Great video/podcast as always 👏

[@jimcrants7517]

I ran my first half marathon the day this episode hit KZbin, and I was victimized by my watch thinking I had run further than I had. I was going for 1:46:00. My watch thought I hit 13.1 miles at 1:45:47, but the finish line had just come into view when it issued its celebratory beep. My official time was 1:46:29. I'm not too crushed, though, because I'd been having doubts about breaking 1:50 or even 1:55 in the weeks before that.

[@fedupwithaccounts]

Loving the podcast. I’m just imagining the service Sarah is doing for Andy. One of his many children will probably give him the amount of cheek Sarah is willing to offer. Just getting him ready for what’s still to come. 🤣🤣

[@Ecclesbury]

Really enjoyed this episode! My Garmin measured the new Forest marathon (ironically sponsored by Garmin) at 41.6km. Hard learned lesson about relying too much on the watch doesn’t help with not going out too quickly!

[@amykathryn9777]

Loved it as always! My husband was not happy with my suggestion that this proves I need another pair of ‘everyday’ shoes although these are also my race shoes so maybe two more pairs…

[@SchvennMeister]

What coincidental timing. I threw my back out this week and the past two Parkruns, I warmed up by doing some dynamic stretches followed by a quick jog around the parking lot beforehand. The result was that last week, despite recovering from a torn soleus, I was 1 second off my Parkrun PB and this week, with that injury as well as a cramped back since Wednesday, I still managed to smash my PB and reach the goal I set for myself this year, by getting a sub 24 minute Parkrun (23:46)! Warm ups work! Whoda' thunk it?! :D Also, best podcast you've done to date and we're waving from over here in Ontario, Canada. :)

[@runningchannel]

Thank you! [Waves back]

[@ralphmartinez1869]

Great job all!!! Love the podcasts! All the best!!

[@runningchannel]

Thank you Ralph!

[@ThatRunnerAaron]

One of the best videos to demonstrate running cadence is the video of Luis Orta running with Paul Chelimo.

[@jeremydriggs-qb1ps]

I’ve watched the video. Paul Chelimo looks so smooth and fluid with his stride while Luis Orta looks as if he is struggling to keep up. Unbelievable difference in stride lengths!

[@_sica]

i don’t normally watch podcasts… but this is a fun, informative, and friendly one. keep it up :)

[@runningchannel]

Really glad you're enjoying them! 😁

[@mvzinn111]

Brilliant episode! I really enjoyed it.

[@iduncareanimore]

cadence is pretty confusing to me, for my interval 400m splits, my cadence sits at ~180 without my actively trying. whereas for my easy runs, as hard as i try to quicken my feet my cadence sits at 165

[@aussieintn8036]

About the same as Rick.

[@kylekermgard]

Take shorter steps to increase your cadence. Maybe doing some drills or listening to 180 BPM music would help

[@bustatank1958]

Thanks folks. Another enjoyable episode.

[@runningchannel]

thank you!

[@aylaamon3267]

Having your watch hit the correct race distance is even more off on trail runs! My favorite: I ran a trail 50k and my watch said I ran 29.43 miles... and since there are very rarely distance markers on trail ultras, it was real fun not knowing exactly where I was when I was well tired.

[@tristanbotha1361]

Dylan's time was 18:14. Well done, I'm still trying to get to that time 😂

[@martinjensen4815]

I had knee pain and my fysio Got me to improve my speed and cadence, and it suprsingly helped alot

[@garrymoss3652]

If a hypothetical athlete concurrently had a 100m time of 10.1 and a marathon time of 2:09, but only ever trained or raced for those two events do you think they'd be able break the mile world record with only a weeks woth of training?

[@spencerharper6182]

Thank you Sarah for the motivation love to os podcast from ohio

[@silvermandavid]

When it comes to cadence, I think a lot depends on a person's body-type. I'm a fairly short man (5'7") and and therefore my natural stride length is shorter. I see some very tall guys out there with long legs. They seem to just lope along with long relaxed strides that cover lots of ground. These guys fly past me even though my cadence is usually at or above 180.

[@davidjuson5608]

My heart goes out to all those who have been failed by GPS watches. I recorded my best 10k time (51:41) at the Lordshill 10k in September 2021 and my watch clocked me as only doing 9.83k and refuses to acknowledge my PB -- which it still is! Or, rather, should be. Please note, the race was chip timed and the course takes competitors past the HQ of the Ordnance Survey (in sunny Southampton Rick), who I'd back against satellites for geographical accuracy.

[@pquirk99]

You can edit the result in the Garmin app.

[@slowloris1847]

​@@pquirk99 That's how I did it with my 10k pb. Had to go on the website to do it.

[@davidjuson5608]

@@pquirk99 Rats! I will remember that next time. Thanks for the information. I was somewhat late to IT, for anything other than word possessing and Emails, and it takes me time to grasp things.

[@monikanovak4236]

My first marathon and my watch said 41.88km :D I changed it on Garmin but on strava it wasnt possible so I still didn't run a marathon on strava 😂

[@lazzaboyman8003]

I broke my ParkRun PB today, my average cadence was 183 but I’m aware that I don’t get enough lift to ensure I’m spending the right amount of time in the air. So should I be trying to optimise my stride length or my cadence?

[@gwilymeades]

I got some of that there cadence and I'm much better now! Less injury, and faster! Yay cadence!

[@johnnelson5929]

Track Spikes question-Are there any good tips on how to ease a runner used to road shoes into track spikes? I know from my own experience, and the anecdotes of others, transitioning into track spikes can often lead into achilles injuries and other foot issues because of the differences in shoe design. I know this is less road-based, which is where y'all have focuses, but being in summer track season I'd love to know how to help my young'uns getting into track to learn to use spikes without getting injured.

[@ismovanutube]

Question for a future episode: caffeine strategy during a race? Would it worth timing caffeine intake so it would kick in for the painful part of the race? Say for the last 5-10k or for a steep climb.

[@runningchannel]

Good suggestion!

[@edladd212]

On the running distance question: After a race I usually check a few other people on Strava who also competed, to see if my measured distance was accurate. At my first ever 10k race, my watch clocked 9.85km and unfortunately the group on Strava confirmed that measure. Being short of the distance due to dodgy GPS is bad, like Sarah said - but finding out the course is just too short is really disappointing.

[@UTubeSL]

Great podcast - love the dynamic!

[@runningchannel]

Ah, shucks. Thanks!

[@isiah675]

I've been spending half of my marathon recovery thinking about this same topic over and over what perfect timing 😂😂

[@paulbassinder72]

I got a Parkrun PB of 25:28 today with an average cadence of 181 and max of 194 but my stride length only averaged 1.1m. I'm 5' 10" (1.77m), so average height, and wondered if you think increasing my stride length would help drop my 5k time?

[@Leeroy49]

You loose signal in big city races anyway because of the buildings. I actually ran berlin half this year pretty much exactly on the line except for water stations, but of course lost signal at 18-19km :).

[@oldmanwombat]

Cadence. Yes 180 IF you run a 2 hour marathon. I'm a older runner and slowly learning that it takes me along time to warm up. My last park run ,did a 4km warm up , then ran 30 seconds a km faster than expected..

[@tobiasz6613]

Oh GPS distance on watches.....well....I ran my first ever marathon last week, except Mr. Garmin said i ran 42.02km and I hadn't run a marathon....still, just means I'll have to do another one.....

[@jassaljs]

Please share the Mo KZbin link? The India connection is not leading us there 😩Thanks 🙏

[@runningchannel]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/gaamknyvadWEr7M

[@joemoya9743]

Cadence discussions are always interesting. Cadence is confusing because all to often an optimal cadence is not necessarily the best cadence. The best cadence is the rate that allows the athlete to complete the distance in the environment they are running. Optimal cadence is a fixed spm that is determined by physics. And, physics says the optimal cadence is in a narrow range around 180 which also explains why observations show this to be the typical cadence for the best runners. Optimal cadence is more or less the best cadence to have in order to minimize injury, promotes more efficient running by transferring vertical movement to horizontal movement, promotes landing the foot under the bodies center of gravity. Unfortunately, the problem with a 180 optimal cadence is that it is not worth much if it is beyond the runners fitness level relative to the environment or goals. Same can be said for the physics once you incorporate stride length and cadence. The reason taller people tend to have lower cadence is because they can produce longer strides more easily than shorter people. But, that doesn't mean it is efficient no more than to say a clock with longer hands turns at a different rate than a clock with short hands. Instead, it means the taller runner is gaining more speed by increasing stride rather than increasing cadence but physics says it is at some efficiency cost if it is at a slower cadence below 180. However, if a runner has a 180 cadence and a long stride, that is the "physics-idea" of gold standard of running fast and efficient. I guess in a way, the 180 cadence is more of a training goal to try an achieve for most runners but not something that in real life is practical for all situations nor should it be.

[@SimonMountjoy]

Can you site the studies that show 180 to be optimal for performance and injury reduction?

[@joemoya9743]

@@SimonMountjoy I can... but, I can do better. It is called math/physics. But, I am going to OVERSYIMPLIFY this for sake of avoiding the math. Imagine the foot moving in a circle. At 180 degrees, you will find the point at which the bodies center of gravity lands directly over the ground contact point (assuming it landing at 90 degrees to the surface). This is called tangential force. For a foot to land most frequently at this point occurs when the spm approaches 180 (observable fact). If it is faster, you will likely land behind the center causing negative acceleration from loss of force (ground contact time). If it is slower you will likely land in front of the center also causing negative acceleration caused from braking (overstriding). Landing dead center of your body mass spreads the impact over the widest potential area resulting in the lowest impact point of landing. Think - Jump roping. Now, ...for performance. Let me again remove the math and use a practical example. If you want to find the optimal point to propel yourself faster while on a skate board, where should your foot land? The answer is 180 degrees to the center of the bodies mass and 90 degrees parallel to the ground. Now, the cadence would be slower because wheels act as a multiplier effect on the forward propulsion requiring less need to have a 180 spm cadence. In that instance, wheels produce an exceedingly (unhuman) stride length. But, if you put humans on a treadmill, you will find that stride length is limited by the runner's ability to PUSH backward from the point of contact. In short, muscular strength is the limiting factor when you don't have skate wheels amplifying tangential pushing force. I just Google, 180 cadence and injuries. I found a whole page full of research showing the correlation of higher cadence and less injury. Now, if you look for 180 cadence and performance, you will not see that sort of results because that sort of information is observational. So, in effect, the observations show that faster runners TEND to be in the 180 spm area. But, that does NOT make 180 spm the best cadence. It simply means that is a point where optimal running mechanical efficiency tends to be the most prevalent. Why? Because the largest amount of efficient force pushing backwards is at 180 degrees provided the ground is level (largest point of tangential force). And, we all know the ground is typically not level when we run.

[@SimonMountjoy]

@@joemoya9743 that's a lot of word soup, a lot of which makes no sense. Maybe just site the studies?

[@joemoya9743]

@@SimonMountjoy Are you wanting explanations or sound bites? Appears you have a belief and don't want to bother with explanations or facts that (unfortunately) sometimes requires the willingness to read and some fortitude to use a Google search. There is tons of information about this subject matter on line.

[@SimonMountjoy]

@@joemoya9743 I want the scientific studies that back up your claims. You said you could site them. So, maybe just site them? Or maybe they don't actually exist?

[@amykathryn9777]

Oh and as for GPS my London marathon distance is approx 28 miles every time according to my watch 🙄

[@pauljaffray6437]

My cadence is 180 on all my runs. My long and easy runs is 1m. HM 1.2 5km 1.4. Did 15x200m sprints Friday 1.8m stride length 😱😂 Love the show ❤

[@EdwardVarner]

After a 15 mile hike with friends, my favorite running show has a new episode. Does life get better?

[@runningchannel]

Wahey! Hike + podcast = perfect

[@cejay67]

My natural cadence is 180, regardless of the pace I run at, never been taught to do it, just settles at that.

[@konaniah]

For cadence is not in my radar the most important things in running is posture and consistency and you will see the cadence will be in the appropriate level, mine is 184 to 185 in average.

[@nchristensen3309]

Would say that the major reason for looking a your cadence is a history of injuries

[@marcof.6080]

what do you think of those ridiculous looking shoes with 10 cm of foam? I used to run on Adizero pro which were really zero drop and enabled me to run naturally. Now, Adidas, comes up with new models each year like Asics, Mizuno and Sauconi, copying each-other's looks. They still call it Adizero but it has nothing of the original purpose. What is your opinion about these shoes? Do you really think they have an edge on normal shoes? Is it a sort of trickery or cheating? When do you think it will become inadmissible or is it already too late and we all have to look like clowns wearing these monstrosities? I am really struggling finding normal shoes online and in physical running shops.

[@craigfaulkner8455]

Rick cracks me up it's a running watch It's not rocket science 😂😂😂

[@davidjuson5608]

I beg to differ. Rocket science is just a matter of lighting the blue touchpaper and retiring a safe distance, whilst changing the settings on a Forerunner 245 (which is an excellent device by the way) requires PhDs in philosophy and hard sums.

[@craigfaulkner8455]

@@davidjuson5608you might be right but I don't have a garmin

[@Micke12312]

I found mine very confusing

[@jamesturner-cv1yg]

Global navigation satellite system (GNSS)

[@Ozzy1984_]

My average cadence is 181 lol. Stride length is 138cm

[@haydnmclean3238]

I can be sympathetic to Rick's plight with the changing the lap distance on your watch. I recently bought a Fenix 6X Solar to replace my Samsung Galaxy 3 watch (May it rest in peace). It took me 3 months to change that setting. The pdf manual didn't have it and Google was all over the place. Eventually, just sitting down for 2 hours I got it. Rick, I feel your pain.

[@ryanbyrne3260]

I like this podcast but Sarah really needs to stop saying 'literally' every sentence. 😅

[@runningchannel]

Young people, eh? :)