S2000 Track Showdown! AP1 Versus AP2!

[@howardz6256]

What they said is" AP2 is a better car, but AP1 is a better s2000"

[@miggyhusky3201]

Howard Z well that means, it's mandatory to have both

[@TheTAEclub]

you read that shit on reddit bitch ass

[@vallasjo8003]

AP1 is still better..........lol

[@alejandroochoa3541]

@@TheTAEclub lmao chiiilll 😂😂

[@Strugglin]

ap1 all the way

[@Zygrene]

I'd love to try an AP1 with AP2 gear ratios and VTEC engagement dropped to 5k rpm. Might be the ultimate S2K "AP1.5" ☺️

[@JackieDing86]

This I agree. AP1 engine + AP2 trans would be a weapon. OR just K-Swap it ha

[@r129r16pfl]

F20c is a glorified B series(c)DannyDC2 K-Swap is the king?

[@huytt67]

why not just have a 4.77 or is the ap1 and ap2 trannys different?

[@Riknos]

@@JackieDing86 We have this in the UK - 2004+ onwards we have all the AP2 revisions but with the AP1 engine, still the F20C.

[@STRIKKERCOBRA]

BIG FACTS

[@apolloandratti7922]

Driven both on the track and street. AP1 requires more talent in some areas, but I find it more rewarding in its rawness, purity (no clutch delay valve and lighter fly wheel) , broader Vtec range, and as one takes it up to 9,000 RPMs. I just find the AP1 more fun! Again, as you said, both are amazing pieces of engineering, and I thank Shigeru Uehara!

[@user-wz3ib1wi8j]

Which one will hold value better (excluding CR)?

[@JackieDing86]

The AP2 is currently the more expensive of the two... A buddy of mine had a nearly-stock '00 AP1 with 12K miles. Sold it for barely 12K USD!

[@apolloandratti7922]

12345 my opinion: 02-03 AP1or 08-09 AP2--a close call. Assuming stock examples. 02-03 offer the best AP1 examples with the enhanced oil jets (as of mid 02), glass rear window, interior improvements, etc. to name a few. 08-09 contain the last changes but not without compromises to the pure driving experience. As manual and naturally aspirated cars become more rare, the 02-03 AP1 will be the one I’d want. Excluding the CR on this conversation, which is a different category.

[@MrMikeDao]

All AP1s are the cheapest even with low miles. You can easily find some from 7-11k. AP2 06+ are the most expensive excluding CRs.

[@boba.9169]

Spot on! My '03 AP1 with a Whiteline front sway bar and British AP1 4 wheel alignment is more "planted" than plain stock and a joy to drive. As you've said, much more fun and FWIW challenging. :)

[@MR-xs6zz]

Total lateral weight transfer on the corners only depends on lateral Accel and track of the car, the body roll is a consequence of these+ the roll stiffness of the car (springs + sway bars). AP1 has more roll stiffness on the front (32mm sway bar vs CR sway bar 28.Xmm on the AP2), more roll stiffness is more weight transfer in that axle and therefore less grip, that could be the reason why you feel the AP1 is more planted in high speeds, because it naturally has less weight transfer on the rear than the AP2 (because of the 32mm sway bar on the front) so more grip on the rear. Then low speed can be a mix of suspension geometry (transient response) and balance of the car (under/over), and that's why you feel AP1 is more tail happy, because of the suspension geometry on the rear, but in general I think the AP1 has a more neutral balance than the AP2. Nice vid!

[@JackieDing86]

Great technical analysis. After upgrading to my new custom-valved Stance XR1s (14K front 12K rear) the issue is definitely gone. Would love to have a rematch at some point!

[@MR-xs6zz]

Yeah of course it goes in the right direction, if you are lacking rear grip at some point increasing more the roll stiffness with the front springs will give you more grip on the rear, going from 10k to 14k on the front goes in that direction, you are increasing more on the front therefore as I said in my previous comment you will lose more grip on the front because of the higher increase in roll stiffness compared to the rear! Then if your car was tail happy now will be more neutral!. When I say you lose grip in one axle is because you gain in the other and therefore you modify the dynamic balance of the car!. A good way also to tune the balance of the car in a faster way is having a adjustable arm length on the sway bar, like formula type cars you should know ;). BTW I'm also preparing my s2k for circuit, looking forward for your future upgrades!

[@Mawndow]

The smartest thing to do when looking to buy an s2000 is to find the cheapest, newest one with the lowest mileage in the best condition. All this "AP1 is better than AP2" is just fake news hype by people who are probably just trying to feel better about their AP1s. Theyre both great cars in their own ways, that perfom basically the same at the end of the day (as you can see in this video).

[@boundariesunlimited267]

Love the AP2 but the tighter steering ratio on the AP1s definitely adds to the driving feel. Great video!

[@bergi85]

Great job! I have an 03 AP1 and love it. But I do like the mid range torque of the AP2's. Great comparison!

[@DJLOUIE1000]

Same. 03 BB AP1

[@raymondmuldbakken2811]

Well I went with the AP2 for the little more torque and I didn’t want to worry if the valve problem with the AP1 and I knew I could find a low mileage one easier just for a few reasons.

[@JackieDing86]

Very true. It's the better car to daily, for sure. Same reason I went with my AP2.

[@Shutupjoepodcast]

Both are great, but I find myself going back to the 03 more than the 04 for smile factor

[@hhhjdm5143]

Thank you Jackie, it was a great comparison.

[@GJCcontent]

I now own both ap1 and ap2. :)

[@MOOSEMAN7809]

Awesome video! I was really expecting the AP2 to take the lead because of torque difference but the AP1 really kept up. Just a thought but I think It'd be awesome to see you race an Accord v6.

[@JackieDing86]

Thanks! To be fair, the AP2 did lead the majority of the lap, I wasn't as brave on the final corner and that's where the AP2 lost time. I'd race anything, but never driven any FWD...

[@apolloandratti7922]

Now you need to drive the Honda S2000 Club Racer, Shigeru Uehara’s last creation before retirement.

[@JackieDing86]

My '07 went through a period where it had most of the CR suspensions stuff (CR shocks with Swift Springs, front and rear sway bar), and I enjoyed it for the street and occasional track driving. Would love to try a proper CR on track though.

[@apolloandratti7922]

Hope you you get to do a video on a stock example.

[@JackieDing86]

I actually filmed one stock vs stock comparison, again on the same tires. Unfortunately during editing my hard drive died and I lost all of the footage.

[@apolloandratti7922]

Hopefully another opportunity will come.

[@DMSBrian24]

In Europe, where AP2s (called AP1 facelift) still come with F20C, do you think it's worth paying a couple thousand extra for a newer "AP2"? Wheels and tires aside, as i do realise those are superior in the AP2 when stock, do you think the suspension upgrades make it worth it?

[@JackieDing86]

I do think it’s worth it. The extra torque is definitely appreciated for sure.

[@ChunMotorsport]

huge thanks for this test, looking into to get one S2000 and circuit spec it. for my purpose comparing AP1 vs AP2 stock for stock would not cut it since a circuit purpose built car are not same as a factory stock car. you have any thoughts on DC5 Type R? would love to see you race one of these and give us your thoughts

[@importenthusiastchannel]

Great video M8

[@joeynachanphasuk7002]

Jackie couldn’t ADMIT it lol 🤣🤣🤣 AP1 gang

[@YungMarsh]

good content man, & shoutout doing what my friends I would just talk about in university hahaa, wish I somehow got around to getting in that much seat time.

[@ImaDjentleman]

Do both cars have the same spoiler, hardtop, and splitter? That's funny

[@JackieDing86]

Both cars have the exact same aero set up. CR lip and rear wing, Mugen hard top.

[@shawntenney5246]

Awesome as always!

[@AdvBrewery]

awesome video. I own a 2002 myself. 9k all day

[@rfunk727]

Love my 07 AP2! Drive it like you stole it!

[@chrisdadigger1018]

I could have bought either I went with ap1. It’s the legendary version. Still own it 100% stock

[@Udancearoundme]

What intake duct is that on the ap1?

[@Knight4eva007]

Great video keep it up 🔰

[@endless_touge]

Very nice video. And very good driving.

[@theguy1994]

My AP1 was exhausting the first time I took it performance driving XD

[@davidpalmer8419]

How did you mount the harnesses without a roll bar?

[@JackieDing86]

A BalladeSport weld-in harness bar.

[@rbt450]

the hell was the guy at 5:47 doing, looked like he just parked

[@JackieDing86]

He was a tad slow... ruined my lap ha.

[@Strugglin]

I think the ap1 looks better

[@awakenonanotherworld4959]

03 AP1 89k miles for 13k$...deal or no deal...(head gasket redone) would like to know (asap)

[@JackieDing86]

If the ultimate driving experience means more than 13k to you, and you can live with the risk of spinning/crashing and the annoyance of only having 1 cup holder, go for it

[@zacharyparis]

can't talk. busy hitting 9k. wwwaaaaaaaWWWWAAAAAA!

[@huytt67]

ap1 track and ap2 daily, nah i know ap2 would be better but imo ap1 cuz i have one n aus never got f22 so yeh ;p

[@jwrx7tt01]

0:56 what is "zero lash tie rod ends"?

[@JackieDing86]

I’ve got no clue ha.

[@jwrx7tt01]

Jackie Ding can you ask the owner lol?

[@SnoopiFL5]

04-05 best S2000 overall.

[@elonmusk8667]

You may graduate if you can grab the marble out of my hand. Thank you grasshopper.

[@phantom2488]

ap1 is king sorry bro

[@BSon-sj9uc]

Stock vs stock. 2004 is best version..

[@JackieDing86]

Well yea but who would really track a stock car...

[@BSon-sj9uc]

Jackie Ding s2000 is a great car to track in stock form.. But if you took both and did same exact mods. It's essentially the same car just different motors haha.

[@apolloandratti7922]

The 2004-05 is the purest AP2 in the sense that it doesn't have DBW (Drive By Wire). Actual cable like the AP1.

[@BSon-sj9uc]

Apollo Andratti also, does not have traction control ;) 06+ it was equipped

[@JackieDing86]

Weirdly I don't see why not having traction control is a good thing.

[@oOalvaradoOo]

Ap1 performs better Ap2 looks better

[@gyo1381]

You're not Sena because you're not driving a civic nor an nsx ;) Otherwise, your driving, though a little twitchy, is mighty fine :)

[@josearteaga9667]

I rather have a ap1 personally its more raw and doesn't have tech help like the ap2 same rivalry as the evo or WRX I had both ap1 and WRX qnd I rather have my skill drive the car than help from tech

[@hammer86_]

Don't honk your horn on the track.

[@JackieDing86]

Don't park the car on the apex in a "Time Attack" session and I won't!