SF2 MAGNET EFFECT VS SF6? The nuances of Proximity block in neutral and footsies. GEIF VS RYU ASMR

#streetfighter #sf2 #sf6
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Curious that we were just talking about this and then the recent japan tournament for super turbo we see this in full display.

[@Scroteydada]

The delay on standing up should be brought back. It made crouching feel like a real decision where you had bigger worries than just overheads

[@michaelmoonlight4484]

Man I really appreciate when you do this kind of analysis. I don't feel like many people see fighting games in this level of detail. If you think about it the way zangief forces proximity guard is functionally similar to a feint.

[@eddD14]

The sad part is that the current fgc doesn’t care about this type of nuances, your average fgc smart ass makes the same shallow content about how sf 6 is better than old sf because is more accessible for morons and how is much approachable for esports, not if it’s more interesting as a game.

[@ChernobylComedyAndWings]

It's a false equivalency, where is the data supporting this? If the argument was for making the game more accessible then why the f- is DP so bad? The most iconic move next to Hadoken is poopy in the game where you want inexperienced players to enjoy themselves. And if making the game more accessible = more players then why doesn't Virtua Fighter have the largest fanbase? Doesn't add up. And then we have """difficult""" games like League of Legends, Souls Likes, Dota, Apex being quite difficult yet have a massive audience. And those games are well known for being """difficult""". Now obviously were a different genre, so we can't just compare 1:1. But this is where the argument starts to fall apart for me, Show me the data that supports this argument. If anything I think the way the ranked matchmaking works by tricking players into thinking they're high skilled is a big component of player retention. And that's speculation as opposed to the narrative of "truths".

[@remylebeau34]

If you make any criticism of this game an army of losers will materialise immediately saying "scrub quote" "get good" or "skill issue", it's so fucking annoying.

[@neroclaudius3036]

Hearing about how old street fighter works is so jarring to me as a new school fighting game player. In Granblue fantasy versus there’s proximity guard,but you can literally cancel it and do whatever. Hearing about how pokes work is kinda familiar though since in Granblue there are some characters with sweeps that actually go straight under some normals which I think is kinda cool.

[@huevonesunltd]

For the most part in modern games things still work the same way on a bare bones level but they brute force stuff on top to force the interaction they want In some games they just change the distance of proximity block so it only works at the range it hits and when it comes to hitboxes it's the same thing they are just very deliberate on how they draw them so they go under or over stuff, it's more standarized now. And when they really want to change how stuff work they add extra behavior, for example in granblue there's moves whose recovery frames change depending of they made contact or not just to make sure the frames advantage stays in a value they want, normally in older games the frames advantage was directly tied to just the recovery frames and amount of hitstun/blockstun, if they wanted to change the frame advantage they just touched the recovery but bruteforcing wasnt out of the question either, now it's all about bruteforcing the intended behavior by breaking the "engine's" rules, backthen if you wanted to for example make a move more easily whiff punishable you would have to extend the recovery time but as a side effect that would make the move more minus on block, so if you wanted that without changing the frame data you would have to alter the hitstun which is a "dirty" way of doing it because you are messing with things that are supposed to be universal, so in granblue for 66A they instead made it so there's a different recovery that triggers only on contact + a hard coded extra pushback in that nerf they did to that move, it's messy but i guess it's fine to them if it's an universal change A lot of old games did stuff like this but SF2 would be like the most barebones game where rules didn't change much between moves (if at all because i am sure there has to be exceptions)

[@ChernobylComedyAndWings]

I may have asked this before so forgive me. whats your opinion on dashing and backdasing? possible video on dashing?

[@spitfiremanlizerd]

Proximity guard could be kind of "obnoxious" in SF2 which is why it got toned down in Alpha 1... but it's still an interesting mechanic for sure. There is a lot of old "archaic" fighting game design choices that could make for an interesting new game if implemented with new and now common mechanic. The game punishing you for being too passive is a pretty massive thing. Even if old school games post SF2, playing "lame" was often times the most meta thing to do. There is also a bunch of stuff taken for granted that might need to go away now and then. My kingdom for a game without dashing. Without EX moves.

[@gvulture1277]

We will never get a game like SF2 again and it's so sad

[@qroof.youtube]

rather than heaviness, I felt more like the characters are on a grid and move not as freely as previous games. I do understand what you are a describing though, and I agree with it. If you compare MvC3 with MvC2, you can see the grid based movement more pronounced compared to how you can flow anywhere on the screen in MvC2, and it feels more natural and engaging to watch because of how the movement looks more fluid. It's hard to describe, but I wonder if you have noticed that as well? I still think 3s is the closest to perfect game and Ken vs Ken (3s) is the epitome of the highest IQ combat available in a fighting game, but I appreciate ST for all of its high level nuanced stuff like proximity guard and the purity of footsies. I still like HF better cause of CPS1 combos and the lack of supers in the game as a whole (yes I know non-super characters in ST can be tournament winning, like O.Sagat, but he has stuff that isn't in HF too, which makes me like HF better... same for Vega who never uses his super).

[@StellaEFZ]

you need to play more fighting games if you think 3s is close to perfect LMAO

[@gayshit6230]

@@StellaEFZwhat is perfect?

[@ChernobylComedyAndWings]

3s is a very unintelligent game, it removes the complexity of hitbox interactions and replaces it with a option selectable defense that can be used in offense. At the highest level it's entertaining, but there are a lot of sacrifices made on how the gameplay intricacies work, and many options are a lot less effective despite being inherently not so effective anyway. Hitconfirm's and oki will take you very far in that game, further than other skills.

[@vulcan422]

Proximity blocking may have its annoying aspects, but it exists for a very good reason in older games and it's a shame they've either nerfed or taken it out completely from newer games. It plays an important part in regulating spacing. When you don't have proximity guard, you get scenarios like SF6 which incentivize being right next to the opponent constantly even more than past games. SF5 was in a similar boat too, but for different reasons as that game had different problems.

[@remylebeau34]

Proximity guard in Sf6 is so badly designed. There's low moves that force proximity guard when you are walking back/standing and so far away. If you want to see the most ridiculous example look at bison slide, it locks you in place, standing from basically full screen. It's terrible when it comes to crouch medium kicks since you instinctively try to walk back to whiff punish but end up getting hit by crouch medium kick into drive rush full combo.

[@SaishuuKessen]

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