Super Saiyan God - It's Stronger Than Super Saiyan God

[@arx3516]

The Super Saiyan God ritual gave Goku a permanent boost in power, one that he retained even in his base form. In the movie Goku drops from god to base while fighting Beerus, but he doesn't even notice it and continues to fight at the same level as before.

[@user-o10oo0oo0o]

There was a statement that said goku able to access super sayain god in his base form without the trasformation could be the awnser why he able to keep up with beerus

[@thetruesquad5059]

@@user-o10oo0oo0o for a while there has been something called saiyan beyond or something like that where they use god ki in there base

[@AM-qm7pi]

@@thetruesquad5059 sayian beyond god

[@thetruesquad5059]

@@AM-qm7pi ye thats it I wasn't sure if it was that or not since I haven't heard of that term in literal years

[@themasterofnothing4978]

Yeah, thats fucking cool

[@orion5565]

I think there is a simple explanation: it was such an initial jump because of the god ki, it was initially both an addition and a multiplier, but once the addition was absorbed into his base, all that was left was the multiplier

[@doheonlee6703]

This was always my headcannon, as it would also explain why Toppo didn't get much boost when he used God-Ki (G.O.D. form). Unlike SSG which was a multiplier AND addition (now just multiplier after adding to base), Toppo only got the addition when he got God-Ki. This was why he only rivaled SSBE and not get something crazy like 20,000x multiplier (or some other crazy high number).

[@jforgotten2620]

Yeah, but when he went back to ssj after absorbing the God ki he was just as strong as super saiyan God. So that would mean he also absorbed the multiplier as well. If the the God ki plus the theoretically multiplier combined is what gave him strength, that would mean that when he dropped out of the transformation he would only retain the boost from the God ki, since he wouldn't maintain the multiplier from a transformation he isn't in. But that wouldn't make sense, because we know that he was so close in power to the God form and even surpassed it that he never noticed a power decrease. If they were separate he would of noticed the multiplier he gets from God decreasing his power a bit after it left him

[@Firestar19]

SSG was never absorbed in the manga. That was just an anime thing, no?

[@jforgotten2620]

@@Firestar19 No It wasn't just an anime thing. Also the anime came first anyway.

[@Firestar19]

@@jforgotten2620 What? Isn't the anime based on the manga?

[@infamouskid6413]

SSG is my favorite transformation and a missed opportunity in my opinion

[@megagamer8429]

Agreed

[@peanutbutter368]

Yes

[@TreyHallRH3]

Very much so missed

[@choboibigly6565]

SSG Vegito would look cool as

[@mfirdanhb]

Yeah I hate how they just "Hmmm this is a pretty powerful form LETS EVOLVE IT"

[@sprzecio]

honestly, if SSJG would stick for a while as a main form and the villain wrecker (like SSJ in DBZ movies, yes hello cooler) then the bazilion times multipliers would work, also that raises suspicion on how on earth earthlings were able to scale up well enough to somewhat not get lost in the god ki meta

[@mannamoth918]

The Earthlings were buffed for no reason and it makes no sense since we never see them even TRY to learn god ki

[@PKSkyler]

@@mannamoth918 Roshi especially lmfao went from not even a Z Fighter to sonning Tien and doing the best out of all the humans in TOP lmfao

[@jaypf80]

@@PKSkyler well that’s all a matter of his experience than anything I get it but I don’t honestly feel like Roshi got a buff he was already a legend and is the main reason Goku even is the way he is other than brain damage and grandpa Gohan

[@JFirecracker]

@@PKSkyler Didn't Whis mention that Roshi was the closest an Earthling had ever gotten to Autonomous UI? I'd believe it in his case; I mean, there had to be a reason Roshi used to be called the _god of martial arts_ back in OG Dragonball.

[@HC-gm4fo]

They Misunderstanding him absorbing the power in bass It just means he unlocked god ki, it’s not a double multiplier It’s literally the reason the story doesn’t make sense to you guys

[@aster4jaden]

They wasted SSG, but atleast it did't become a gimmick like SSB.

[@ZeroYami]

If SSB is a gimmick, then so is Super Saiyan.

[@beyond_hazz9778]

The best example of a this would be ssj3 that transformation is completely useless at this point

[@Literally___Me]

Ssb?

[@LloydTheZephyrian]

@@Literally___Me super saiyan blue.

[@StevenJones851]

Yeah I'm glad it did become a Gimmick

[@jackthecottofanknuff3950]

Ssg is such a underrated form man, and it imo looks the coolest

[@GabelTin]

facts

[@bluestreaksthehedgehog.]

Damn right!

[@reaperproductions9553]

I argee bro, it’s my favorite form and I even said it’s the coolest.

[@bluestreaksthehedgehog.]

@@reaperproductions9553 it’s sad because people won’t shut up about super Saiyan blue even though it’s not that good

[@seedank4151]

@@bluestreaksthehedgehog. really? i cant see one dude who likes the look of ssjb over god

[@trippy4memez]

I love Gokus creativity with this form,he doesn’t use Kamehameha’s left and right he managed to use a technique that literally stunned Broly and had a ball of god Ki he slams into Broly.

[@tentaplayz3691]

Ikr

[@David-ic7gm]

The goku rasengan

[@beenknew7274]

Thts the first technique he didn’t steal

[@Koodllez]

​@@beenknew7274learning is stealing to you OK then beerus stole hakai

[@andrependleton7242]

IMO, this should've been the pinnacle of Super saiyan power. It looked like it had so many uncharted avenues.

[@buckeyeslim6177]

This was interesting. However, I don't believe a "multiplier" applied to SSG. God ki isn't like regular ki. It doesn't multiply the existing ki, but rather unlocks a new type of ki. This is why the physical transformation into SSG is so drastically different from any other form before it. Goku doesn't just boost his power, he completely changes it. It requires a certain level of regular ki control to achieve, but the God forms actually transform the ki into divine energy, and transform the holder into a divine-level physical form that can sustain that energy. Now, for SCALING PURPOSES this is an excellent video. For understanding the form itself, you have to go more into what actually happens when Goku or Vegeta go SSG. Still, GREAT video! Held my attention from start to finish and left me wanting it to continue. That's the mark of SSG level content. 😎💪🏾💪🏾👍🏾👍🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@HC-gm4fo]

Besides Ritual ssg is stronger than when he unlocked the power on his own

[@tastedivinefury2198]

Meaning the power still gets higher right

[@buckeyeslim6177]

@@tastedivinefury2198 I would think so, yes. That's why SSB is possible

[@VeaireProductions]

Excellent comment!

[@bryangolphin4022]

@@HC-gm4fo Is there any actual proof for that throughout the story

[@ginnungagapabyss5639]

I always just thought ssjg, had all the perks of ssj4 thanks to, not only it original design being a Golden ssj4, but also it took ssj4 ability to make a saiyan be in his prime, and the form working like a base form, and changing it to make a saiyan in there prime, looking like a younger, but slimmer version of themselves, but looking divine, and powerful. Also with the zenkai boost throughout super, it could have been inspired by ssj4 giving Goku those insane boost, but it was probably just a coincidence.

[@Ktotokroto]

SSG is either different multiplier from the initial transformation. Or Goku was heavily boosted after the false ritual as some people scale SSJ false ritual Goku above theoretical SSJ3 Vegito.

[@VDiddy5000]

My fancanon, backed up by exactly zero evidence, is that SSJ God form puts the user in a state of maximum stats with no drain. Beyond that, every movement, every attack, every ability is treated as if it’s performed to its absolute limit; Goku throwing a punch in God form is like base Goku powering up fully to SSJ3, then focusing all of that power into that single punch. It doesn’t really work like that, since attacks in God form do seem to scale to each other, but imagining the God form as some sort of “Limit Break + Potential Unleashed + Bottomless Well of Power” just makes sense to me.

[@zaneyates5704]

I wish it worked that way 😫

[@SparkTheKirin]

SSJ God always felt like it was supposed to be a maxed out version of Gohan's Ultimate mode. All of Goku's power that he's able to channel brought forward into his base form, using God Ki to channel the power so it doesn't crush him (see, SSJ3) Which is why when he reverts to SSJ in the Beerus fight he can still keep up, his body knew how to use that power without exerting to a higher form, so getting shoved back down to base SSJ was like not changing forms at all, he could still use the same power.

[@vinnyn1111]

Goku does get stamina drain using the god form?

[@VDiddy5000]

@@vinnyn1111 yeah, I know, I was just fan-canoning my ideal version of SSJ God lol

[@ZelZ-.-z]

Personally I like to think the Ritual God is stronger because of the Ki but eventually Goku get's that level himself so maybe the base Multiplier is very great but maybe Goku's Base in BOG got stronger from the energy enough to make Ritual God that strong and Vegeta catching up is literally just the training in things that we see as different timelines/ continuities we see how angel training can be quite broken.

[@ShayanAli_29]

SSG in BoG was booked perfectly however RoF and later... WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED well up till ToP

[@-RedHood-]

I pretty much agree with the methods and explanations but tens of times goes up to 100 I believe. Good thing you stopped at 100 as that would be the highest possible multiplier for Fusion on top of A + B.

[@HC-gm4fo]

The strength of fusion can’t be qualified regularly It’s not adding power or multiplying it, it is the results of two beings becoming one. The power that is achieved depends on a multitude of factors, from personality to techniques.

[@T.Gundham]

Considering the fact its above SSJ3 (which is 4 hundred) 420 is the multiplier that makes most sense as it also says dozens of times.

[@ayushdeshmukh284]

But that's not accuracte when you scale off of the new Broly movie. Fusion in that movie seems to be a better boost than going ssg. (since Ssj Vegetto fared better than Ssb Goku)

[@-RedHood-]

@@ayushdeshmukh284 Fusion after BoG is supposed to be a better boost the going SSJ God. The whole equation of A + B ×100 = C is partially because of the DBS: Broly movie. Btw, A and B are the maximums so post-BoG base Vegito in Super equals SSJ Blue Goku + SSJ Blue Vegeta × 100. Gogeta in DBS: Broly equals SSJ Blue Goku + SSJ Blue Vegeta × 100 (for those who believe Metamoran is equal to Potara) or a few tens less than 100 (for those who believe Potara is stronger than Metamoran).

[@-RedHood-]

@TheBoltMaster That's just your opinion. I think that the maximums should be multiplied.

[@tredoggolden2254]

The main question is how blue goku blocked and even brake one of gas’s attacks. He really did get a power boost the thought that the best option is to give Vegeta a bean over him.

[@Bone_Tickler]

Who the hell is Gas

[@vicepresidentrose5128]

@@Bone_Tickler do you really not know or is this a joke? If not, no shame as I would understand why. Gas is the newest villain in the DBS manga.

[@Bone_Tickler]

@@vicepresidentrose5128 i only Know Granolah currently

[@vicepresidentrose5128]

@@Bone_Tickler Gas is the current enemy against Granolah, Goku, and Vegeta who are now working together. I probably shouldn't spoil it anymore if you want. I myself don't know 100% of the details but I've got the basic info I need.

[@Bone_Tickler]

@@vicepresidentrose5128 ohhh okay

[@timgonzales2891]

In this 13 minute video, u gave more thought than the creators do, in like a 5 year period, in relation to power levels and scaling. Subscribed, respect

[@PokemonProfessorNebula]

I always thought that SSG and SSGSS was its own transformations and since it utilizes God Ki, it got a bonus boost going from a base saiyan without God Ki to a Transformation with God Ki. I agree with the fusion part, and always felt the x20,000 was good for SSG, and if Goku taps into God Ki, lets put God Ki at a x5000 boost when fully mastered because its pretty obvious God Ki is super broken in the series and has no defined boost, and this is just a fill in number. Now lets say Goku when transforming got a 1% God Ki Mastery since he just taps into that power, which means he gains a x50 bigger boost from divine ki, and it grows even higer through the fight as his body adapts to God Ki. We know Divine Ki is just a very controlled state of normal energy. This makes his initial SSG transformation go like this, Base form x 50 x 20,000 or a x1,000,000 boost after the ritual. During the parts where they claim he absorbed the SSG Power, I think the anime refers to keeping the God Ki and utilizing that 1% Mastery in SSJ, because its been pretty obvious SSG is NOT a Base Form Saiyan with God Ki. Saiyan Beyond God just wouldn't exist then, SSG is its own transformation. Now once Goku learns how to utilize God Ki in his Base form, he can then weild it in Super Saiyan and his other evolutions of the form, but does not have to. Similar to how a being can choose when to use destruction energy, they can choose when to utilize God Ki. Because of this, against Caulifla and Kale, I'd believe he would be using SSJ with God Ki (For obvious reasons against Kales Legendary SSJ form), and why is SSG Form seems so much weaker once he transforms. He simply gains a x200 boost from his SSJ2 form to SSG form while still keeping his God Ki multiplier.

[@_KAZI]

Amazing video bro😤🔥

[@SaiyanScholar]

Thanks 🔥 I recommended you too!

[@_KAZI]

@@SaiyanScholar I appreciate it. Keep up the bangers 🔥

[@thepriorstone4064]

When I first saw Resurrection F, I got the impression that SSJG was stronger than Blue, Blue was just a transformation of SSJ that used God Ki, thus easier to use and transform into

[@abdulmoid267]

Well I also got this impression throughout the series bcoz Goku almost never used SSG until ToP arc when Goku clearly demonstrated blue hair being superior to red😅

[@Super_Saiyan_Rainbow]

Great video! Loved all the different method

[@zerrierslizer1]

More isnt always better. sometimes less is more, and that is what makes Super Saiyan God so damn awesome. the story of the form, the way you get it and the power it gives as well as the way it looks. everything is on the lower side in terms of content, EXCEPT for the power it gives the person in question. it is an awesome transformation, and i honestly would love to see it more and perhaps have a story with it where the TRUE Super Saiyan God Power is awoken somehow, and i feel that Vegeta is the one who should get that transformation alone as he is of Royal Blood.

[@arisberisha186]

The reason why goku wasnt as strong as kefla in ssg form is because he was worn out from fighting jiren the first time he used ui omen

[@Yusa25]

Actually that makes sense but still. Remember the fight against frieza on namek he was literally beaten up and transformed into super saiyan and beaten up frieza afterwards like nothing happened.

[@abdulmoid267]

​@@Yusa25yea, and it's also shown many times in DBZ and super that saiyans simply can't tranform into ssj (or maintain the form)if they are too fatigued so if Goku is able to transform then he shouldn't be that much weaker than a full power SSG

[@jordanglasper1064]

This was epic, due to inconsistencies it does get messy. I’m impressed u were able to make sense of The Super Saiyan God multiplier.

[@hehz7829]

I’m sorry but it’s just so funny to me how this is all being explained in such a serious tone. I almost lost my shit when he started talking about like low multiversus levels or whatever that was.

[@savageprojebus6453]

Opinion time: Goku getting as strong as he did with the god form was also thanks to the fact that he got double power ups from the others. The first time the ritual failed he only got a power up but he never used up the power he received from the others. Meaning that his base power was already ampt. When he got the ritual done again (now with 5 others) he got more power. Like the OG Broly movie when he got the power from the others and was able to surpass Broly. He did the same thing on this one but 2 times. Could he had done as good as he did without the first boost? Then again just as the role model Tien said in DBZ Abridge "FUCK POWER LEVELS"... Also red form should be saiyan god form and blue should be the super saiyan god form. after all one looks base and one looks super saiyan.

[@Seven_DB]

That DBZA quote is so dumb

[@SomeLonelyShmuck]

@@Seven_DB Yet so apt. Even Toriyama hates power levels.

[@srnova9486]

@@SomeLonelyShmuck Lmao he doesnt, he just said he didnt want to include them in DBZ cuz they spoil the fights Since if you know who has higher powerlevel you know who is going to win Power levels were never bullshit and are pretty accurate and help us determine how strong characters are in Namek saga and below With Power levels given in Namek saga you can also calculate power levels of other characters

[@SomeLonelyShmuck]

@@srnova9486 I wasn't serious. Jesus...

[@SomeLonelyShmuck]

@@srnova9486 also I never said power levels were bullshit so...uh...weird derail. Got a bit ahead of yourself

[@VladyDaddy7Z]

Many instances you've mistaken from the very beginning. First - there's no evidence that the original Dragon Ball world scheme is appliable to dbs. In fact there's much more evidences of the opposie. Dbs is it's own, separated world'building with it's own scheme. And on this scheme there's only a universe, a one singular space-time continuum, no any signs of Another World and all of it's dimensions, Makai, etc. When Whis says about 12 universes - the visual describes them as a singular ball with one galaxy in it. Later on, when the Zeno Castle is shown - there's 12 collumns with those exact balls with one singular galaxy in each one! Moreover - in the episode 83 of dbs Kaioshin directly states that there's only TWENTY EIGHT PLANETS with a sapient life IN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE. Those 12 universe are damn small! They are tiny actually! Not even starting about that the normal universe should be infinite! So the feat of SSGod of threatening the universe of dbs hypothetically with the help of Beerus is literaly miniscule in comparison to Evil Buu with Gohan's feats even! Heck even with the start of Freeza arc! And even moreover - Elder Kaioshin is the one who describing this feat, stating it and describing the properties of those waves. Well guess what - he's making a mistake about it! When he describing those waves he talks about it's properties too, that it becomes stronger the further it from the epicenter. And the Earth already is shaking being right next to it. So if he is correct about it's properties - than it means those waves should damage Kaioshinkai, the exact world where Elder is, because it's the farthest point in the universe right? Well guess what - it does not doing it. The most this waves are capable of at the most distant point of the universe is to push an old man who can be pushed by a little ki firework. So no matter what the exact property he's mistaking about - either if the waves are actually not that strong or that they are NOT becoming stronger going further from the center (which says that they are no that strong anyway BECAUSE THE EARTH IS RIGHT NEXT TO THE EPICENTER) - any answer means that those waves are absolutely not universal and that Elder making mistakes in his description. Second - why people actually think that this form gave any massive boost from SS3 at all? In fact all that happens in the series shows that the powerup is actually much SMALLER. It's 1,5 at best!

[@tortikhz1645]

Good job, dude

[@maritimesteak8540]

Still goat all these years later you're not at double digit subs anymore lol crazy ride ssj4 guy

[@mostcomplicatedman8115]

when they say shit like " they can destroy the multiverse with just punches " they just say this to add tension to the fight . we never see these things happen . now they fight at way higher levels of power not not even planets are affected by their battle .

[@laurettamtsweni4718]

I can't wait for your GT vs Super videos,I'm curious to see how Golden Oozaru vs SSG and SSJ4 vs SSGSS would turn out.

[@goingoutsad]

I wish this form had more screen time. They moved to blue too quickly

[@aidanshowers8366]

Super saiyan god is a cool form and unique design that helps it stick out amongst the other forms. It sucks the writers, and some fans don’t give this form the respect it deserves (every time this form is labeled as a recolor like blue I face palm and roll my eyes).

[@quint2568]

I hate how blue is always represented more than god. Like put god in fighters plz

[@shadowninja1059]

Fr now it’s just too generic

[@obrians-brown1307]

What if the super Saiyan god from the ritual and the Weiss training SsG Goku and Vegeta learnt are two different Super Saiyan God in terms of power scaling. I mostly say this because the ritual made him skinny

[@vicepresidentrose5128]

Guys, I just realized something. According to GT scaling, SSJ4 has a multiplier of 254,606,613,962x the base while according to Super anime scaling, SSJ God may possibly have a multiplier of at least 10,000x the base. This must explain why some media has SSJ4 about equal to SSJ Blue.

[@user-o10oo0oo0o]

But inside super ssg was stated to be 5 times stronger then super sayain 4 red hair so technically super sayain god is a form that is ascended a new level of power past super sayain 4 even goku in the manga said super sayain god is goku fifth wall so technically super sayain 4 was a thing before ssg was a thing >ssbkkx 20>pssb>Ssb>Ssg>ultra ssj 4 fp red hair>ssj 4

[@vicepresidentrose5128]

@@user-o10oo0oo0o In Super, SSJ God was stated to be 5 times stronger than SSJ4?

[@-RedHood-]

I love to see it. Who needs god ki when you got mon-ki. 🤦‍♂️

[@2EntireLegs]

@@user-o10oo0oo0o any source?

[@treaper512]

Facts good video 👍🐉🍇happy thanksgiving buddy keep it up happy holidays 🎄❤️🎄🧞‍♂️

[@_zen._0551]

Damn this is amazing

[@kylefortner8709]

For me I've always followed the same rhythm of the way the forms go, double the last form. So ssj2 is twice ssj1, ss3 is four times ssj2 so I give ssjg an 8x ssj3 multiplier. The big initial amp is one thing, the transformation is what I'm referring to. It's pretty clear they don't get that huge of a jump when they transform into God. It seems like just a standard multiplier.

[@elijahwatjen9839]

ive always thought the multipliers they come up with were ridiculous and that the difference in strength is not that great between forms

[@kylefortner8709]

@@elijahwatjen9839 the whole system is wonky and the powerscaling is all over the place. Nothing is consistent, I swear.

[@tentaplayz3691]

@@kylefortner8709 fr

[@baboin1851]

You could also go with the fact that base kefla could be way stronger than then just the ssj boost. Cause you have two legendary ssj multiplayers working at once. One for the normal fusion that being the blue level she showcased in the beggining of the tournament of power. And one for Kefla's combined form.

[@maritimesteak8540]

50 times bare minimum is what I use because vegito is at least ssj3 Goku level and can go super Saiyan I use this multipier to make it simple I believe he is far stronger but this is usually enough to demonstrate this characters strength. Unless I think it's required I won't use a higher multiplier.

[@runeuchihawhatifsandgaming3783]

I mean. I know you s8d at least but let’s be honest. Base vegito is buuhan level.

[@travis7patriot653]

@@Cure4Brains Someone scaled base Vegito to whatever Blue kaio-kenx20 is for the current power

[@maritimesteak8540]

@@runeuchihawhatifsandgaming3783 Yeah even that's a low-ball he is crazy strong

[@runeuchihawhatifsandgaming3783]

@@Cure4Brains I meant in at least.

[@runeuchihawhatifsandgaming3783]

@@Cure4Brains also if fusion is axb than how did kefla lose. Base kefla was above god goku by a good amount but not as much as a fusion if it was axb should. We all know base goku surpasses his ssg form in base after r.o.f so he’d far surpass the super saiyan god multiplier while in base. Caulifla and kale were relevant to his t.o.p after jiren base and that super saiyan 2 goku was able to fight controlled berserk which was stated in the anime to be stronger than berserk super saiyan. So there battle of gods goku x super saiyan god x super saiyan god yet your saying when kale and caulifla fuse there not that x super saiyan god x super saiyan god.

[@lcsaiyan]

YES IT IS VERY UNDERUSED! THANK YOU! I feel like ssblue came so fast it didn't give ssg a chance

[@PKSkyler]

If they keep using SSJ God as a stamina efficient but still strong form it will be good/fine, imo. If Goku keeps using it like he did in the TOP it will make sense. Vegeta too should try using it for defense and switching to blue for offense, seems like that strategy could be underestimated.

[@DarthKamui]

Brilliant video like always. 👊 I'm sticking with head-canons forever now. Helps internally make "sense" out of Dragon Ball. Except for Kid Buu being stronger than Buuhan in the anime or SSJ God's power boost.

[@MadRabbit0wnzu]

Kid buu was a more pure form of buu, and had all of the God ki

[@vicepresidentrose5128]

@@MadRabbit0wnzu In the DBZ anime, Buuhan is logically the strongest Buu but Kid Buu has been stated many times even in other sources that Kid Buu is the strongest Buu up to that point. I mean, how does SSJ3 Goku who is around Super Buu levels get to beyond, or at least about, Vegito levels?

[@MadRabbit0wnzu]

@@vicepresidentrose5128 I think your misunderstanding power lvls and fight IQ and just how durable and magical buu was. In super they explained that kid buu had pure God ki, ubb inherits this God ki and donates a little to vegeta who gives it to UI goku powering him up more than he has ever been before. Kid buu was a kid with too much pure power and hardly any fighting experience like he had as buuhan

[@vicepresidentrose5128]

@@MadRabbit0wnzu I know all of that. Buuhan was smarter and stronger while Kid Buu was the more dangerous due to being pure evil. In the DBS manga, Kid Buu was pure god ki that Uub inherited as a reincarnation.

[@MadRabbit0wnzu]

@@vicepresidentrose5128 think about it like this, kid buu was 1 shot of pure moonshine, buuhan was 2 shots of whiskey. 1 shot of moonshine has more than twice the alcohol of those 2 shots. Having more ki doesn't always mean your stronger

[@menacingpotatoleaf]

I'd give Super Saiyan God infinite multiplayer, for the fact that they were going to destroy Several of those microcosms. The universe is infinite in Dragon ball, along side The Kaio-shin realm which is infinite, hell is several times infinity, and there were even more realms which are infinite as well inside one universe or dragon ball. Before this Goku just wouldn't be able to take out all of that. Yet Super Saiyan God wasn't just destroy that, but the infinite sky of star between the universes, and surrounding universes. That's I think it's a infinite multiplayer. To get to infinity like that you need to gain infinity.

[@thetruesquad5059]

Gojo just there like, interesante

[@agenti4734]

So it's an infinite potential

[@tentaplayz3691]

😭😭😭

[@vinnyn1111]

Infinite as you can’t measure it properly.

[@menacingpotatoleaf]

@@vinnyn1111 infinite as in infinite. I already explained you can't read probably.

[@dihanmustakeem4089]

I think the ritual gave him the spirit of Yamoshi too thus his power went up that match to give Beerus a challenge (not even super Saiyan Blue evolved stands a chance against a serious Beerus) but when Goku accessed the God form later on his own, he just had bits of God Ki leftover which he trained to use and perfect (just a multiplier none of the addition). So in short, that ritual sort of acted like Korin's water plus a multiplier. While the normal God form is only a multiplier

[@mojaxon23]

I don't think SSG multiplies one's power. If Ki is like water, God Ki has higher pressure and density than normal Ki. I don't think SSG gives any additional Ki, it just converts what you have.

[@sidecharacter3193]

No because we’ve already seen the difference between condensed ki and gif ki Blue goku is a god form with god ki Mastered blue is blue with all its ki condesnsed So blue is already a multiplier stronger than ssj3 and god before condensing it’s ki

[@vicepresidentrose5128]

I used to think it was a simple conversion but in SSJ God, the god ki definitely replaces the normal ki which is all sealed within the body and that god ki is added on top of the Battle Power Goku has in base. The ritual is a good example where the others' ki is poured and likely converted into god ki to add on top of Goku's.

[@vicepresidentrose5128]

It makes more sense if Goku and Vegeta have more god ki within them than normal ki as beings with normal ki can surpass beings with lots of god ki. (Opinion) Using random numbers, 10 units of normal ki is 1 unit of god ki. SSJ has 50 units of normal ki while SSJ God may have 50 units of god ki. Same number, different ki, and greater power with god ki. In this case, 50 units of god ki as SSJ God would be 500 units of normal ki as SSJ.

[@mojaxon23]

@@sidecharacter3193 Why does everybody think the transformation gives a multiplier at all? These characters performances in various forms do not suggest such a difference in capability on any consistent basis. Let's use Broly as an example. If SSG was a multiplier, then how did Broly catch up in strength so quickly when Goku or Vegeta ascended forms, taper off, and start ascending again at a completely new rate multiple times in quick succession? Unless SSG's multiplier is tiny, then it must be doing something else which isn't well explained to the user. Yes they are stronger, but I think it is beyond simple strength the form adds. We can't base what a form does based on a bunch of retroactively added statements and contradictory information. It's like "mastered" ultra instinct. Dude ain't "mastered" anything except getting tired too fast to fight. SSG Ki has to be converted Ki of some form, as Goku cannot actually just draw the power from nowhere, he activates these forms himself with his own Ki.

[@mojaxon23]

@@vicepresidentrose5128 I always saw Ki as a fluid. Normal Ki is like water, dangerous at high volumes and pressure. God Ki is like mercury, still dangerous at high volumes and pressures, but much heavier and viscous thus making harder to work with and requiring more training and initial strength. While the Ki is more effective, it's difficulty to wield would explain why Goku and Vegeta keep getting destroyed anyway. Almost like getting disarmed because your weapon is too heavy to use while in an actual fight.

[@mojaxon23]

How can fusion multiply the fighter's power together for real? What unit does fusion decide to use to multiply them? Does fusion increase total Ki pool, Ki output, or both. I'm sure that fusion simply creates a fighter with the total Ki pools of the fighters combined, and a new Ki output level based on how skilled the newly created fighter is.

[@idunusegoogleplus]

There is a chance it might work like kurama's baryon mode where the fused state is multiples of naruto and kurama's combined total and not just sum of the two chakras.

[@mojaxon23]

@@idunusegoogleplus Maybe, it depends on what fusion counts it's units as to determine what it does exactly. But for now they're gonna leave it arbitrary so at any point they can break it out and say the fusee is more powerful than the opponent

[@trisxart2393]

I like how ssjgod looked in the B.O.G Movie, the T.O.P and In the Broly movie

[@eli_da_man_]

I really wish that Super Saiyan God stuck around as the pinnacle of Goku and Vegeta's power for a longer time rather than just jumping straight to Super Saiyan Blue/SSGSS so soon after. Super Saiyan God was so unique and felt like a genuine event. Super Saiyan Blue felt unique in concept and when it first appewred, but nowadays it literally feels like what Freiza called it in ROF: "Super Saiyan with Blue hair dye"

[@josephh.gamingnthings1474]

Would a 4 Quadrillion times multiplier work for Super Saiyan God as well?

[@Edelweiss1102]

This is pure head cannon, but I always took it as SSJ God kinda having 2 separate multipliers, a permanent one that will stick with you once you attained the form for the first time even if you lose it again and a temporary one that is tied to the form itself. You could also make a good argument that the permanent multiplier is connected to God Ki rather than SSJ God specifically, based on that Vegeta was able to achieve similar levels of power without achieving SSJ God specifically, but he would late use the form with its temporary multiplier. So in this head cannon of mine, the insane multiplier that lifts you from Galaxy to low multiverse level is the permanent one tied to God Ki. Achieving God Ki, whenever it is through SSJ God or other methods like Vegeta lifts you on that universal god scaling and will leave you there permanently, even if you lose SSJ God. And then the actual temporary multiplier of the form would be the less insane but still huge about x25 SSJ3 from the Kefla fight . This is also in line with the original Battle of Gods movie where SSJ God puts Goku in the same general ball park as Beerus (granted nowhere near him) and he keeps the power boost even after losing SSJ God in his base and SSJ form. Later when Beerus is about to finish him, he briefly transfers into SSJ God again, this time using the multiplier of the form to overpower Beerus' energy ball.

[@MisterRorschach90]

They’ve released peer reviewed papers recently that talk about how different sets of infinity are actually the same. Mind boggling and one of the first times in a while that I just completely didn’t understand anything. Usually I can get most of it if I really try, not this.

[@MiyusTab]

Long time no see i was here on your dragon ball gt re write and u were like 39k subs do u remember me?

[@PrestigeRoadman]

Goku be looking clean AF when he's in god mode.

[@VoltageGamer]

SSJG deserves more appreciation because of the design it's very Devine and that fiery aura just Mwa Perfect!

[@zisischartampilas6601]

3:08 50 is a nice multiplier cause when you go blue it will be a perfectly round and bewtifull 1m multiplier

[@zooby11isbambam]

I feel like ssg gives them a much smaller booster after absorbing it into their base forms. It was a massive jump at first when they had no god ki, but now that they do the transformation seems less significant.

[@grodygibsonlcd8038]

Personally I think the Ritual Boost is a separate from the normal boost on its own. The ritual boost, at least within the anime, gave Goku god essence at some point. Even his base form becomes Low Multiversal due to the scaling within the anime.

[@finishedsbgafw0582]

Enjoyed this video bro agreed with just about everything. I believe they are actually trying to scale at toei animation lol

[@grimdaggz]

I always saw SSG as a power level that equates to if SS Vegeta, SS Trunks, SS Gohan, SS Goten & a SS Pan Fetus were to all fuse with Goku.

[@domhyrule]

I like that in the TOP they made a reason to use God still, as it's less energy and more defense based

[@ThatOneGuy-oh8qx]

Kefla used Kales Controlled Beserker Form which has a higher multiplier than SSJ and SSJB Goku matched her initially. And their are many statements stating that Kefla was getting stronger and that she was stronger than expected

[@Gentledegenerate]

please bring back what the hell happened, I miss saying "A DISGRACE" along with you XD

[@stumpyalex503]

I've always figured that the multiplier of super saiyan god was never as high as it seemed in the initial transformation. It's just that goku's massive increase in base strength happened the instant he reached that state.

[@zachg5856]

i feel god ki itself gives a exponential boost ie if my base was 1000000 then i get god ki it would be squared but that’s only when u first unlock god ki then ssg would be to me a easy 1000x the ssj3 that’s why whis is so focused on base power cause the higher the non god ki base is the more insane of a power boost you get when using god ki

[@lancetheking7524]

Pretty sure if you train your base form, every transformation and technique also get stronger, regardless with God ki or not

[@zachg5856]

@@lancetheking7524 yeah but with god ki i feel it gives a exponential boost

[@PhoenixAce]

I always thought it was 250x ss3 cuz 5 ss 5x50 is 250

[@tentaplayz3691]

Can't believe it's already been 9 years since the debut of SSG

[@yaboikingkai3475]

I just assume that the power difference is caused by the use of godlike saiyan, which allows base forms to come near to equaling SSG. It actually explains a lot. Why SSG Vegeta did worse against Wrathful Broly than Base and SSJ1 Goku did, when we know that SSB Goku and Vegeta are equal. The use of godlike saiyan could always explain why this form's multiplier can never be pinned down.

[@vicepresidentrose5128]

When a God-like Saiyan attempts to go SSJ, they go SSJ Blue. God-like Saiyan and SSJ Blue were supposed to replace SSJ1-SSJ3 and SSJ God as Toriyama planned but obviously not anymore, as SSJ1-SSJ3 and SSJ God are used. It makes more sense that Goku was testing Broly using certain tactics in his lower forms, exactly like with Hit, SSJ2 Caulifla, and Jiren. Goku got pretty overwhelmed in base but wanted to continue testing so he went SSJ and probably got the feeling that Broly wasn't evil during the testing and further got overwhelmed which is when he went SSJ God to paralyze Broly and have him stop listening to the others. Vegeta didn't appear to be injured at all and the movie's light novel stated that Vegeta was not done with Broly. Vegeta was also not prepared for even stage 1 Wrathful Broly but Goku was.

[@yaboikingkai3475]

The use of godlike saiyan is something that has been in the anime for a long time, and has been referenced as the way divine forms are achieved in even the Broly Movie. From how it's described as "Pressure" and building up your energy and controlling it so that it doesn't leak out, it stands to be assumed that godlike saiyan is something that can be turned on gradually like a water faucet. Only when a Super Saiyan's power surpasses that of a god form does it turn divine, so this would stand to reason that Base form and SSJ have the ability to go all the way up to SSG levels of strength before turning divine. After all, godlike saiyan was meant to replace SSG, and was shown to match it. So the likelihood is that SSG these days only offers divine energy to Goku as his base form can easily match this power. And as for SSJ, it likely is only used to save for stamina now, since the only way it can surpass base form is to go blue, since base form is now equal to SSG, and SSJ1 becomes SSB when it surpasses SSG, therefore, it must be blue to surpass base form's true power. And the anime sort of supports this, as Goku never uses SSJ2 and 3 unless he is one of two things. 1. Showing off, such as the case for his battle with Future Trunks. 2. So low on stamina that he can't reach divine levels of strength in base, such as when it was used against Kale and Caulifla. Now of course, the manga may portray this differently. I have heard that SSJ2 and 3 are used more often in the manga, as is SSG. And this causes a lot of issues, as the manga simply seems to treat divine energy as a totally separate form of energy, as opposed to merely the way you carry yourself as the anime shows. But I boil this all down to inconsistencies between Manga and Anime. In the end, this is the only way to make up for the difference between BoG's Vegito< multiplier, and the T.O.P's Kefla> multiplier. Goku is simply already using a portion of SSG's power in his base and other forms. This could also explain why Gogeta's base is far greater than SSB when BoG said Vegito was weaker than SSG. Gogeta is merely carrying himself in godlike saiyan, and this means his SSB is no more than essentially a 50X boost to him. The sad thing is, we can never know when Goku and Vegeta (or anyone for that matter) are using godlike power, and thus we must merely assume that their base is ALWAYS equal to SSG until SSG is used and shown to be stronger than what was formerly being used. This also would make any form besides SSJ1 and SSB redundant, which explains why these two forms are essentially the only forms used in the anime. All the others are wastes of stamina, ki, and time.

[@vicepresidentrose5128]

@@yaboikingkai3475 👍That could work. I just feel like the God-like Saiyan state isn't used anymore since it surpasses everything up to the SSJ God level and the writers want the golden-haired forms to be in use due to their popularity. The reason why Gogeta's base was stronger than SSJ Blue Goku and Vegeta combined is because that's how Fusion works. Vegito was only weaker than SSJ God Goku because SSJ God was not part of Goku's or Vegeta's power. Now, base Vegito would be stronger than Blue Goku and Blue Vegeta just like Gogeta.

[@yaboikingkai3475]

Well, I always put SSJ1 as to be used to maintain stamina. To be frank, DBS does not maintain it's self well, as it seems to sometimes add things that logically should not be used anymore. I still think godlike saiyan is still used, as it's principles can still be seen all throughout the series, even to Broly, if you watch with a keen eye and know what to look for. In the end, DBS has sort of just become an eye-candy show. It's not meant to make sense all the time, so long as the colors keep people coming back, and the battles, no matter how one-sided they should be, are interesting enough to watch. Even if that means retconing scale and power.

[@drunkenskunkproductionsdsp8094]

Back then, I wished SSjG actually got a true multiplier. I kept seeing fanmade multipliers going from 700x to 15,625,000,000x. Heck, there was even my guess of 12,500x, but I wanted to hear something from Toriyama, Toyotaro, or even the animators. The truth is, they stopped power scaling by numbers because it was getting too ridiculous, and it had no reason to be there because it didn't change the story. It was never the numbers that made a character's power, but the feats they've aqcuired. Sure, a character can have a power level of 100 quintillion, but have they done anything impactful?

[@tentaplayz3691]

6:56 when was this?

[@refth6893]

is next gonna be super saiyan blue is stronger than super saiyan blue?

[@infernus4750]

"Super Saiyan God Is Stronger Than Super Saiyan God" *Ah Yes, The Floor Here Is Made Out Of Floor.*

[@J_M_V_0164]

On the next episode: "why do grapes taste better than grapes."

[@black2785]

“Beefier and brutal”

[@SaturnineXTS]

My lowball for Ssj God was rather simple to calculate, yet still rather monstrous. If I recall, base Vegito was stated somewhere to be around Ssj3 Goku, meaning he's 400x Goku. And that's manga only mind you, not like in the anime where he could dominate Buuhan without even transforming. In the manga he went SSj right away, probably for good reason. So we've got SSj Vegito, let's use the classic 50x multiplier, meaning he's 50x400=20000 times Goku. Vegito can most likely go SSj3 without trouble, putting him at 160k times base Goku, if we go by the officially stated multipliers. Why Vegito in the first place? Because Goku said fusing with Vegeta would be of no use against Beerus. So a single SSj God needed to be stronger than the best they could do with fusion - SSj3 Vegetto. My lowball is 3x that - so 480,000x base. But in all likelihood it was probably intended to be even more, to the point where SSj3 Vegetto becomes surpassed by orders of magnitude.

[@Winddemonslayer]

Ssgss is still my favorite and the color blue is just the icing on the cake

[@kassimhadd4870]

Hello cool video but what do we do with the ssj4 case

[@maximoomega3691]

Happy Thanksgiving scholar's.

[@derrickjohnson4952]

I wish we focused more on SSG form it’s concept is great . God ki concept is cool

[@ClappTrapp-_-]

I’m tripping atm so it took like 30 seconds for me to realize I read the title right😂

[@ZelZ-.-z]

Also I wanted to say this in the SS3 Video but when you have a multiplier on a character or more power in one character think of it as a Pokemon with BST. Sure 400 Base Goku's are gonna get wiped out they might as well be Sunkurn my Groudon and Kyogre are gonna OHKO them all with Water Spout and Eruption respectively. Although when all of them are 1 it's more like EMAX or MugenDaimax where One Shotting that is way harder a far higher BST rather you put them on the highest level or on Psudeo level or starter level or Mega Level it still doesn't change their stats can increase so much that you no longer one tap.

[@M3rtyville]

Remember when that form had a time limit and healed yourself? Now it perserves stamina like Blue suppose to be and no longer heals wounds.

[@sidecharacter3193]

Healing was only anime exclsive for one scene Never happened in the manga the movie or any part in the top That’s another part of why the anime sucks Atleast the manga kept the way forms work consistent

[@M3rtyville]

@@sidecharacter3193 the anime is hot garbage. I have yet to see a show worse.

[@sidecharacter3193]

@@M3rtyville eh I wouldn’t say it’s then worst thing ever still There are shows that would make super look like a masterpiece

[@sidecharacter3193]

@@Cure4Brains nothing wrong with it It just shows you how much worse quality can get

[@user-o10oo0oo0o]

@@sidecharacter3193 no healing is also part of the manga even in the moro and granola and broly movie goku was able to get healed but not that much since broly almost killed him and the time he rematching moro because of meerus death his base form was healed a bit and when vegeta was dealing with Granola goku was recovered in his base form because the god rituals

[@vegetauchiha12]

El titulo esta en español y hablas ingles ?

[@mikeexits]

Which game is shown in this video? I didn't know there was a game that takes place during Super. Is this in Kakarot with DLC or something??

[@bigfish5544]

I think what most people miss is that... Ssjg goku wasn't enough to stop Beerus, he wasn't even close. The reason they wanted to transform into ssj god is because they had heard it was the best change they had, not because they knew it was. No, vegeto wasn't enough to beat Beerus, but goku did consider it being enough for a while... Whereas god goku, well he got beat up by a suppressed Beerus in the battle of gods arc, absorbed the god form to his base, trained for years, unlocked ssj blue on top of his god absorbed base, and it was still not enough to beat Beerus until the tournament of power. I think it's pretty obvious vegeto was stronger than ssj god, and not by just a small bit

[@rowan2445]

Yal are idiots. Base vegito was said to surpass ssj3 goku so a good place to put him at is 500 times base goku since ssj3 is 400times base. This makes a potential ssj3 vegito 200000 times Base goku and 500 times ssj3 goku. Do you really think ss God is weaker than 500 times ssj3 goku. It would take goku and beerus 3 punches to destroy the universe. Beerus was matching gokus power. So it would take God goku alone 6 punches worth of power to destroy it. So God goku is 6 times weaker than multiversal. I don't think goku was anywhere near multiversal before god. Plus goku himself said vegito would be no Match for beerus. You can't use vegito from the zamasu arc as a scale because that goku and vegeta are much stronger than this one. That goku and vegeta had god ki infused into their base. This goku and vegeta don't.

[@rowan2445]

Ssj3 goku in the buu acr was closer to galxy level or multi galxy at a highball. Enraged buuhan was a threat to to the universe. (low universal) And vegito was stronger than this so we could make vegito high universal. God goku before absorbing God into base was multiversal. He absorbed God into base and went God again. I don't think you know the difference between universal and multiversal. It's huge. Vegito without God ki does not stand a chance against God goku.

[@rowan2445]

@@Cure4Brains 1) I don't use the multiplier just because it's a good number. I scale and use feats. In the Manga it's implied that Base vegito is no match for boo as he went directly to ssj to fight him. So it's would be a stretch to say base vegito is more than 500 times base goku. Plus I use the guide as my evidence. 2) we are not using the dbz movies to scale goku. They aren't part of the cannon story. I'm am trying to stick to the Manga alone since it's most accurate and true to toriyama. Which is why I'm not using vegito vs buu from anime. 3) if the fusion was a times b then the guide comparing vegito to goku is useless. Plus it does not make sense in the Manga cause if that was the case then base vegito would stomp buu. It's not even the case in the anime. He wouldn't need ssj. 4) we aren't using any non cannon material. We using the what's most true to the creator which is the Manga. At that point vegito was the only fusion they have seen. Idk what you are smoking but it's never stated that frieza could destroy a universe. Idk what dub you watching but I know for sure in the Manga it never said that. Namek saga is nowhere close to universal cause in the cell saga it stated that the solar kamehameha from super perfect cell was solar system level. Cell was a solar system buster. That's far from universal. Again. The movies from z aren't cannon. We can't use that scaling of ssj3 goku. We using the Manga scaling. Using the movies won't make sense cause gogeta does not exist in dragon ball super. He was only introduced in the broly movie. And we know this since vegeta only learned the dance on that day of broly. And u can't use the vegito and gogeta from now to compare because goku and vegeta now have god ki. You saw in the movie itself that goku absorbed God into base. Baer goku and vegeta now are far superior to back then. The vegito you are taking about does not have God ki. It makes no sense to compare. Why can't you understand. Just think about it for at least 10 seconds. Goku didn't know beerus full power but he did know the power beerus used against him and is implying that the puny power beerus used to defeat him could also defeat vegito. This would make vegito even weaker Than I said. So I wouldn't use that argument if I were you. Even I wouldn't want to downplay vegito that much. It hurts. The fact that you said why not use 10000 or 100000 cause its good numbers concerns me. You can't just use any random number just because it sounds good. With that logic I can say t I'm faster than light because it sounds good. It's clear that you just use the anime and movies to scale because they are simple when I'm fact you ignore the og manga and the guides and logic which outweigh the anime in terms of relevance. The anime is from toei. The Manga is from toriyama. It's clear you are just spitting random bullshit and don't know much about dB. If you put at least 5 seconds of thought you would undetsand.

[@rowan2445]

@@Cure4Brains oh and I know the comment is long but just read the whole thing before saying anything. I won't repeat myself.

[@rowan2445]

@@Cure4Brains why do you keep using fusion multiplier as a times b when it's been proven to not make sense. If it were a x b then base vegito would be able to one shot buuhan which is not the case as seen in the Manga. Only the one guide says that. Every other guide, source and even the series itself contradicts this statement. The most realistic option would be to follow the statement of vegito being stronger than ssj3 goku but not infinitely stronger than buuhan since he needed ssj in the Manga. If we get what buuhan is then a highballed base vegito would be equal to that. We can make ssj3 goku a 1. That would make ssj3 gotenks a 8. Super buu=8. Buutenks =16. Gohan < buutenks so he less than 2 times buu. Gohan=12 (1.5 times buu) buuhan = 20. We can make it 21 or 22 since piccolo gotten and trunks were in there. So base vegito would 21 or less. According to the Manga. That makes a potential ssj3 vegito 8400. (Manga) For anime I'll say base vegito = 2 times buu so he would be 42. So ssj3 vegito would be 16800 in anime. This is highball vegito. Kid buu is galaxy level and ssj3 goku is a bit stronger so he too is galaxy level. Ssj3 vegito is 8400 to 16800 times stronger than galaxy level. We can highball goku to multi galaxy so vegito would be 16800 times multi galaxy. The difference between the highest multi galaxy level and the lowest multiversal level is 13 million times. So God goku is 13 million times stronger than ssj3 goku. A high balled vegito is only 16800 times goku. End of discussion

[@Kid_illithid]

Dragon ball z characters are hitting OG Jack Kirby marvel character levels of power with just their punches. Insane

[@CASHMONEY138]

SSG being stronger than a fused Goku and Vegeta is BS

[@VWcachow]

goku actually did know about vegeta's that's my bulma moment. that scene was funny.

[@DrRipps]

A lot of people forget super introduced the concept that it no longer matters about power its technique being why both God and blue move so fluently so even if goku was in ssj2 goku saw through keflas attack so he responded in an effective way if you fight with just power eventually someone will see past the powerhouse moves Edit: now power is important too but not as much

[@sammyslamajama6770]

Also important to note that Goku wasn't destroying the universe by himself. It was the combined power of him and Beerus.

[@stevs4696]

simple when a mortal attains god ki his base is greatly magnified

[@FreakyHimmel]

Its been 9 years already?? Holy jesus

[@myusername3689]

Chuck’s SS4 multiplier video and later SS4 vs SSB video suggests that SSG may have a multiplier of >40,000,000x base.

[@LughSamildanach]

I hope once you're done with all this that you please put together a big picture or something with all these you've worked out over all the videos.

[@project_ronin4789]

Goku being stronger because of the ritual would make sense for why he was able to go base form against broly for awhile whilst vegeta was struggling in blue

[@JP-eo8zw]

I wished SSG was used more. Maybe using the Ultra Forms together? Like using the self-healing, vigor and calm state of SSG to make UE less dangerous and to make UI easier to control. Stacking forms is something that could go out of hand but its just less realistic to ignore your own powers.

[@dextersbeard3472]

Can you please do one of SS Blue vs Ultimate SS 4 Goku power scale?

[@austinwins3801]

Hey, Saiyan Scholar do you think the fighter's maximum do you think it would count Kaio-Ken because it is a technique, and maybe does it include the Kamehameha and other Energy Techniques with the ability to multiply the users power level?

[@izzy3918]

I haven't watched the video yet but what I liked about the movie was that it helped Goku heal

[@falcolord8404]

One thing that bothered me in BoG was that goku didn’t use SS2 or 3 when he realised that he was a super Saiyan instead of being in god

[@littlescholar4192]

That pissed me off slightly. Goku eventually knows he's a SSJ, but doesn't even go SSJ2 and seemed to have a better handle on SSJ3. 🤦‍♂️

[@Karma-ji6ud]

(Headcannon WARNING) I would think that when 2 individuals fuse, it forces their full potential out (kind of like Mystic Form, only it would also bring out their godly potential in the case of Goku and Vegeta in super.) on top of their already magnified power. Thus causing them to be even more powerful than they originally would have been. And I've always imagined that the Metamoran fusion can give an even greater boost depending on how skilled or experienced the 2 individuals are at the fusion technique. If they use the technique often like Trunks and Goten, the two would be more in sync, and they'd be able to draw out more power than before. (Although Trunks and Goten are weak so it's hard to say.) And it's similar with Potara, however the extra boost gained would be more dependent on the bond of the two individuals. Kefla and Kale have a sisterly bond, so their power is even more magnified. Zamasu and Black had a soul bond, so their power is even more magnified, and Goku and Vegeta have a rivalry boost, so their power would be far more magnified than any other. It wouldn't really make sense for the fusion's base form to scale to either fusee's max transformation, as how could that be determined? Does it judge based on their power and the strongest form they are capable of attaining at full power if they had the right motivation and knowledge of how to tap into it? Or is it just based on the forms they've used before? Because just imagine it bringing out the power of Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku and Ultra Ego Vegeta, or possibly higher forms that they don't even have the understanding to attain yet, but just in the fusion's base form. Broly would have died in one hit the instant Gogeta goes super saiyan and punches him. And if he was strong enough to take that, Goku and Vegeta wouldn't have lasted long enough to fuse. And Freeza, who spent over an hour being pummeled by Broly, would have been dead in the first couple of hits.