My First Batman Comic | The Killing Joke: An Analysis

[@cheyennesmith3365]

I think it’s strange that the owner of the carnival was so relaxed when he was showing the place to the joker. You think the guy would’ve called the cops or fled when the joker showed up.

[@robertdenicola6409]

i always felt the same way lmao

[@DARTH_COMiX]

@@robertdenicola6409 i think he was a criminal himself, so he didn't thought the joker would kill him

[@MetroXLR]

He seems to acts as if he doesn't even know it's The Joker that he is doing business with, which is rather absurd. I mean...I know that Gotham isn't the most stable of cities, but how many other people are there who wear purple suits and resemble a clown walking down the street?! Joker has to be the most recognizable individual in Gotham. Even Lex Luthor knows who The Joker is, and he obviously doesn't live in Gotham.

[@adrianomoraes5992]

Grant Morrison came up with that alternate ending of Batman killing the Joker at the end and I believe only to piss off Moore. The whole story is portraying Batman as compassionate, from beginning to the end, trying to reach out to the Joker. Trying to find if he can be reformed and brought back to society which is the portrayal I personally like of Batman. An intelligent person trying to find a solution before using his fists. It just doesn't make sense to say he would be so out of character with the rest of the story and suddenly break his neck. Nothing in the story indicates batman would give up, even after all, but the plain opposite. It is the part of the story that is essentially about how you can't solve this problem with fists and it is spelled out by Batman and the Joker himself. That is why, I believe, Moore claims the story doesn't say anything relevant. Here are two people trapped in a cycle of escalating violence and none can find a way out of it, improve or even find the real causes behind it all. The story portrays the Joker's perspective but not how he could change or grow because if he did the character would be over. So it doesn't really say anything about them does it? It crashes against the limitations of mainstream serial comics. You can cripple Batgirl since nobody was using but you can't change and reform the Joker if there is a Batman movie coming out. In a way assuming the characters can't change it demonstrates the futility of this story itself existing or saying anything relevant about human nature. Which by itself is an interesting comment on the medium but not on the characters it portrays.

[@AceLM92]

One thing I've been curious about, Joker's line about remembering his origin one way or another. I think it's not just to say that he's an unreliable narrator within the story itself, but I think it's also Alan Moore's way of commenting on retcons of villain origins to fit with the times. Granted the origin being based off of one of Bill Finger's stories is used and Joker didn't really have any other possible origins, so it's just a thought

[@SalazarKnight]

Quite interesting thing you've mentioned here. It's quite possible, I believe. Though, with Alan Moore, we may never know.

[@mappyperez]

A friend told me about your channel - And I’ve been binging your episodes ever since. I’ll look to like and comment on all the ones I watch, this channel is legit!

[@opaqueandbluefrommyphone4339]

Despite the decisions that led to the joker becoming the joker, it still happened over a 24 hr period. So it still was one bad day.

[@darthbigred22]

@15:56 Man I get that complaint but cops are people too. In fact the ones who go to that level generally are the divorced and estranged from their kid types so I can see why Gordon might take a day off everynow and then. Afterall the guy likely doesn't work nightshift so all his Batman signaling is either overtime or freetime. I get your point but cops aren't paid a heroes wage and while I do get dedication to fight the good fight, society should actually pay them for it if you want a man to essentially throw his life away fighting crime, at least he'd likely be able to keep his wife and kids around easier.

[@robertdenicola6409]

Hey brother just wanted to give you a little compliment right now and say you literally create the best and most concisely just well done and well thought out videos. I have yet to see better Batman content on the internet.congrats my friend!!!!

[@christianchappell4193]

This was the best batman story I've ever read it's not underrated or overrated

[@captainbeastwinger4940]

I heavily disagreed on Barbara her being paralized made her a more interesting character 1 she became a more relatable character for disabled people when becoming oracle it showed that you don't need superpowers being a martial arts expert or even in the field to be a hero that's a very powerful message 2 getting over trauma she didn't let this trauma mentally cripple her too she's still hopeful Barbara she still finds a way to be a hero by being oracle starting the birds of prey and training new Batgirls with Stephanie brown and cassandra cain

[@XAVIERCUERVO]

i really like and prefer the original bright coloring

[@micah301]

I think my first Batman book was Batman #486 with the villian "Metalhead". Part of the prelude to knightfall.

[@SalazarKnight]

That was one of the first ones for me too!

[@jakeproven256]

One thing I definitely prefer in the original edition of the killing joke is batman having the yellow oval I don't know why the remastered edition removed but overall the remastered edition dose look very good.

[@DARTH_COMiX]

i think that it may have been to give the story a sense of timelessness. the yellow oval belongs in a very specific era of batman, and removing it brings batman to his defualt costume, so it would feel this story could've happened at any era of comic books.

[@jakeproven256]

@@DARTH_COMiX You can't call the killing joke timeless, because they use the "women in refridgerator" trope for barbra, and her being so periless dosen't fly today, TBH, it never did, a losey attempt TBH.

[@darkknightfan7520]

I agree with your grips with the book but it's still the best joker story. Great video.

[@SalazarKnight]

Absolutely. Greatest Joker story ever.

[@billwort6989]

I read "The Killing Joke" when it was first published, and I was struck by the wonderful transitions from page to page, and it reminded of "Citizen Kane" in the use of its transitions. Another great video -- thanks!

[@cosettekonzelman9518]

The comic is better than the movie, but the only part I like is I Go Looney song by Joker, and I'm glad the three voice actors Kevin Conroy, Mark Hamill, and Tara Strong reprising Batman, Joker, and Batgirl from Batman: The Animated Series and New Batman Adventures.

[@jamesfletcher3720]

At last, your Killing Joke post, which has answered the question of which was your first Batman story. It's certainly iconic and is still referenced in the continuity to this day. I still like the original colourings of John Higgins on the book though which as you said was reflective of the times back then, however I was hoping for some more in-depth commentary on the editorial decisions as with the previous Batgirl posts and at least a mention of the infamous quote from Len Wein (according to Alan Moore) to "cripple the bitch".

[@SalazarKnight]

There were a couple of things I didn't include because the video was already too long, but I left only what I considered most important. Many people know by now about that quote and almost everyone likes to talk about it. I wanted to do something new and original instead of repeating the same thing everyone does. And there's also the fact that I'm not entirely sure that's precisely what happened. The mastead credits point out Dennis O'Neil as the editor of the book, instead of Len. However, Alan's script mentions Len as the editor, so maybe things got scrambled at the DC Offices back then and there might have been editorial changes. Plus, I have never heard about any confirmation about Len's statement other than Moore's version, so I'm not sure about the veracity of that claim.

[@TheOGCoolbreezel]

Have you ever read "Batman: Secrets" by Sam Keith? It's very good and it's like a direct sequel to the Killing Joke. If you did, what do you think about it?

[@SalazarKnight]

I haven't read it yet. Thanks for the suggestion!

[@DanyTV79]

Very interesting insight.

[@bibbyboxx2219]

Amazing video!!!!! The Killing Joke is possibly my favourite Batman story (I’m terrible at picking favourites), and I can say that this is probably the best video about this comic that I’ve seen on KZbin. You touched upon everything that I hoped you would, so thank you very much. Great work!

[@EnnJaySeeT800]

BibbyBoxx2219 sorry for the late comment but I would agree with Batman The Killing Joke being my favourite Batman Comic of all time maybe even my favourite comic ever

[@tremblingcolors]

Personally I think this is the most overrated Batman comic book in history and it has led to tons of navel gazing and over-intellectualization of the Batman/Joker relationship and the "Batman is just as crazy as his villains" nonsense which Grant Morrison added to with the second most overrated Batman comic Arkham Asylum. I know it's not on Alan Moore the way lesser writers went on to try to out edgy each other later (same with Frank Miller and his lesser clones) but I think the story of The Killing Joke isn't that good to begin with, it's just edgy boy philosophizing to me. I wish this comic would have been non-cannon but at the same time I really like the Oracle character, though they could have probably had Barbara become Oracle in a different way. Perhaps just have her not be crippled but just become Oracle because she was tired of risking injury, death, or imprisonment as Batgirl (the Batgirl special would have been perfect for this) so transitioned into being Oracle where she could arguably have even greater impact. Great video even though I disagree with you.

[@pink_kino]

edgy boy philosophizing is just you writing it off instead of actually taking what the Joker is saying. The point is you either cope and push it all down to delude yourself into normalcy or you go mask off and give into it.

[@viola308]

@@pink_kino you can understand what he's saying and still think its uninteresting. i think what joker is saying is more or less true, but its really not all that deep and could have been implemented in a much better story than this weird, ugly, sadistic trifle.

[@JeremiahDerby]

Man I've been so busy I havnt been able to watch your videos in a long time so I forgot how great they were! I really love how deep you go into the creation and development of these comics, it shows how passionate and how much you love comics. I can't wait to catch up on the rest of your videos! By the way I actually created a 45min long animated film based on the killing joke a couple years ago. You can check it out on my channel if you want 😊

[@joelanderson4899]

lol dude idk how to say this but i always do impressions of your voice it's really distinctive haha :T

[@SalazarKnight]

Thanks... I guess lol

[@acereview7968]

Great review on this superb story! I agree on the original coloring, though there are a few things I like what they did with the newer coloring, the flashbacks are in black and white, plus a few images are colored nicer. For the most part though, I prefer the original though!

[@humanfishcustoms1492]

What’s the song at 3:15?

[@gavinspace]

I love this story, I just would’ve preferred it not being canon to the mainline universe

[@pink_kino]

Joker's dialgoue about Insanity isn't bullshit and just being edgy. It's just you either cope and push it all down or you give in to the madness but the funny thing is you were mad already but deluded yourself into normalcy

[@Macaco_Gotico]

Oh it's okay, barbara turned out to be better as oracle... so alan moore did a favour for her

[@ronin6033]

This should have been Tim Burton’s Batman but the comic wasn’t out at the time :/

[@seantaylor424]

I've gotta disagree with some points in this video. Babs being crippled as just a bystander in a game that had nothing to do with her is a fine storytelling point. Murder, crime and even society functioning normally trample so many lives without giving them a second thought, so supervillains shouldn't behave any differently and heroes shouldn't be exempt from being those bystanders; Joker was a psychopath since the 40's, so why should DC start pulling his punches in a story where the only people getting hurt are adults? I think this also only helped Babs in the long run, because "opposite-gender version of character" heroes are an uninteresting and overdone, but Oracle being an information broker to multiple heroes rather than just one hero she's a supporting character to is a gimmick I haven't seen in any other character before or since. Now that Babs is back to being just another Batcharacter when there could be somebody helping all manner of superheroes in a(n?) unique way, it feels like they're squandering her potential; she may have been special for being a lady on the frontlines in her day, but that's no longer unique while Oracle is still a rare commodity, as well as a testament to what kind of resolve heroes can have (but taking it even further by keeping her in the game even without her physical prowess). I also find The Killing Joke very relevant despite what even Alan Moore thinks of it. Loss is a terrible thing on the soul and the world's insistence on rotating even after you don't have anything else in it are enough to cause one to find no meaning in anything...And that's BEFORE you start taking the existential nonsense scientists would happily drill into your head. I think the only reason more people aren't asking why everyone isn't laughing is that they haven't really lost their sense of reason to see how angry they should be. I doubt everyone would react violently like The Joker (but many would, given people are already prone to verbal and violent outlashing when they're frustrated over much smaller things), but a man from Ukraine put it best when he lost his family to a Russian attack, "Why should I keep on living? Just to breath?"

[@SalazarKnight]

I agree with many things you've said here, especially with the argument about Oracle. I didn't mention it here, probably because I was still learning how to make proper videos; but it's true that Oracle was many times better than Batgirl ever was. When Batgirl was brought back during New 52, I though it was a weird "artistic" decision, but recently I learned from Gail Simone that it was an editorial/corporate decision; and the writers were even forbidden of referencing Oracle. DC's leadership quite literally erased decades of history of a unique character in favor of another generic costumed hero, just because it sells more comics. And yes, I think that's a worse fate for Barbara than what happened to her in The Killing Joke. Thanks for writing!

[@pink_kino]

It's not they haven't lost their sense of reason but they don't want to face it actually and push it down

[@seantaylor424]

@pink_kino I think that's almost verbatim what Riddler says in an issue of The Question. Riddler asks tongue-twisters to keep himself distracted from the heavy matters that Question seeks out...According to Dennis O'Neil, anyway. Authoritative writer for sure, but I don't think most writers would also portray Riddler this way. You have a fair point that I don't disagree with, but I still stand by my notion that a lot of people also just don't know the kind of things that go through someone like Joker's mind, given my experiences with them and people's reactions to them and my own reactions to things I've never heard of.

[@pink_kino]

@@seantaylor424 This is also true, the more you understand the Joker's views the more you'd understand yourself. I largely just agree with you though :3 We shouldn't just wave away Joker's views as being "erm edgelord!!" cause it really isn't yk?

[@seantaylor424]

@@pink_kino I agree very much. The world is a scary place even before other people make it scarier. Only made worse when the people you care about get swallowed up by the world and you can't do anything about it.

[@Marcissus]

Have you by chance read 3 Jokers?

[@TheGyroBarqusShow]

I believe Alan Ana Brian start working on the book 2-3 years.

[@fakeextrovert2240]

U should do this with the original color

[@thriddoctor]

Not only the greatest Batman comic ever but the single greatest one shot comic ever. I was glad to see Batgirl taken down, I've always hated the hangers on, Batgirl, Robin, Batwoman. Batman had a great supporting cast with Alfred, Jim Gordon and Harvey Bullock he didn't need a bunch of kids in costumes.

[@FireRising86]

I’d argue he needs Robin for the sake of his humanity

[@MutantsInDisguise]

The Killing Joke is good, and has a rich philosophical background behind. However, I lost love for it, mainly because, like Watchmen, it's excessively nihilistic. About the ending, *my* theory would be that both Batman and The Jokers went to different places.

[@pink_kino]

Yeah I find it kind of cringe how Salazar wrote off Joker as just being an edgelord only teens would like

[@Marcissus]

I have the original colors pdf I compiled it myself if you’d like it

[@Dempsey1873]

I prefer the original coloring

[@captainbeastwinger4940]

2:58 or did she

[@joelanderson4899]

good video

[@topherholland4646]

Killing Joke has got to be one of my favorite Batman stories, especially the Joker origin story.

[@markshulusky6680]

I've always thought this story was just "meh", it's full of "meh" writing struggling to sound profound. This type of drama doesn't work when it's acted out by people in superhero costumes. Also the medium being mainly for kids doesn't allow for full exploration of mature/adult themes. So... meh.

[@josesarango3408]

100% agreed

[@bug8992]

I was actually kind of disappointed when I read this. I like the story but every one talked it up so much

[@TheGyroBarqusShow]

Batman can't kill the joker.

[@renoskous.4425]

Mate u made my favorite Killing~Joke🃏 review so i comment to u👍.. I wanna say ✌️things: 1st ~i have the same edition that is with *color removal* &not just different colored.. I wish i could find the original colored gr.novel, even if it's smaller with out Riddlers speech in Arkhams therapy session.. 2nd ~i found why Batman laughed with Joker🃏 in the end.. in the page that *Joker pulled the knife* on batman while batman defending him self he's *focusing* at his *hand* that got *pinched* through his glove from *Jokers toxin* before kicked it off from Jokers hand .. Well he didn't receive lethal dose but just 👌little👌 that didn't kill him but made him laugh once it got in his bloodstream.. I figured on my *3rd* time i read it.. felt i had to mention cuz for me it's an important scene for Batmans sanity, tho also missing from the an.movie🙂👍

[@juanbisonosuero3650]

Best reveiw

[@TheVarietyVendor]

Was always fascinated by the book. But the animated adaptation lost the whole point of it. It's why it sucked.

[@alexandrefrauches132]

I respect your criticism but I disagree a little about Barbara. The fact she was shot by the Joker served to showcase the consequence of Batman' and Joker's eternal conflicts : the casualties. As long Batman and Joker eternal cycle of battles continue, there will always be innocents who will be victims of the Joker or caught in the crossfire, including people close to the hero. This plays into Batman biggest dillema in the story, if he should kill Joker and end the circle of battles or not. Also, while I do enjoy Barbara as Batgirl, I think the incident gave her a great development, with she becoming Oracle using her intelligence and hacker abilites to help Batman and other DC heroes, working as inspiring exemple of how disabilites don't make a person useless and he/she can still do good for others.

[@bradenhogan2]

The literal fact of whether Batman actually kills Joker in that specific moment is irrelevant. The image to me fulfills Batman’s prophetic claim that if he can’t somehow get the Joker on his side then he must be destined to use lethal force on him eventually. In my opinion, “the killing joke” is any law, any value, any imposed moral standard, any justification for violence/lethal force. The final page tells the whole story. The cop car (representative of authority, law, an assumed moral standard) shines a light between Batman and Joker’s feet, creating a line that clearly separates the two figures. In the final panels, Batman crosses the beam to put his hands on Joker, sure to keep his feet on his side of the beam of light. Then, the light goes away. Batman is the lunatic that jumped to freedom and is shining this beam between himself and Joker. Morality, laws, like a beam of light are intangible. You could say they’re imaginary - something we make up in our heads. Yet we’re willing to beat, aggress, potentially even kill people for being on the wrong side of these imaginary lines we make up for ourselves as a collective society of people. Assaulting someone is absolutely reprehensible in every instance - except when Batman does it? Because he had a bad day once when he was 8 years old? Because he is enforcing the law that tells people not to assault others? Has Batman ever considered the people he beats have had bad days that defined them as well? If Joker refuses to cross to the “right” side of the line, Batman has to cross it in order to force Joker into compliance. Because of some assumed morality that Batman has? How many people has Batman crippled over the years, but if Joker cripples one single person he is the bad guy. All because of an imaginary line we call the law. What a joke! A joke that leads Batman to use violence (lethal force) against the people he claims he wants to help - a “killing joke.” It won’t work and can never work. Joker refuses to be controlled or dictated by an imaginary line, a social construct. Batman will have to kill him first. And kill him Batman will. Because if you have any moral standard to set, at the end of the day, the only way to get everybody to comply with your moral standard is to use violence/threat of violence or murder the people who refuse to comply. And if you can cross your own moral line whenever you deem it necessary then you have no moral line - which is why the light disappears in the last panel. That’s the killing joke. It’s any sense of morality that justifies lethal force. To fully understand The Killing Joke, you have to shed any assumption that Batman is a heroic figure, that legality is related to morality, and even that there is such a thing as a hero to begin with. And you have to understand Alan Moore is an anti-authoritarian, anti-violence, anti-establishment anarchist. The way Moore sees it, Batman is no better or worse than The Joker... he’s just more hypocritical. The goal of the two lunatics is freedom. For one of the lunatics, the key to freedom is an imaginary beam we all have to pretend is real. The other lunatic realizes that beams can be turned on or off at the will of the person carrying the flashlight. Laws change with political agendas, so Batman is asking Joker to believe in a mere social construct that changes with the times. It’s too late for that. Joker cannot unsee the world as he’s come to see it and how Batman now sees it as he starts to laugh alongside the Joker, his imaginary beam - his pretense of moral superiority - now turned off.

[@leftyknox8296]

Batman doesn't actually cripple people though. If he did, the Joker's spine would've been broken long ago. You're probably thinking of the live-action movies or the Arkham games; his morals are a bit more relaxed there.

[@bradenhogan2]

@@leftyknox8296 in a realistic world (you know, like the ones found in the deconstruction genre which Alan Moore specialized in), people aren’t surrounded by protecting bubble wrap that magically protects them from damage, and if a person actively engages in combat or aggression scenarios then sooner or later, a few people will get hurt

[@leftyknox8296]

@@bradenhogan2 But Alan Moore wasn't writing in a realistic world for this specific story. This is set in the DC universe. Plus if you read Alan Moore's other Batman story "Mortal Clay," he portrays Batman as sympathetic and relatively non-violent towards his enemies there as well.

[@bradenhogan2]

@@leftyknox8296 as I said, The Killing Joke isn’t a Batman story. You can read it in the script

[@thecatherinegriffin2610]

Nobody gets the ending. Batman kills the Joker! Breaks his neck and the laughter stops. KILLING JOKE. Why does nobody notice it? Bruce he begins the story by telling the joker hes been thinking about it. He pleads with joker to give him a reason not to. Joker tells the "killing Joke " explaing he is hopeless. Batman gets the joke and understands what he has to do. Its not even ambiguous. Its what the whole story was about.

[@joshuaagee-bass4049]

You are completely wrong and more or less copied everything Grant Morrison said. Batman's hands are on Joker's shoulders and he didn't break Joker's neck he leaned on Joker for support from laughing so hard. The script and Brain Bolland both stated this. Also the comic is canon. Joker didn't die get over it.

[@joshuaagee-bass4049]

The Joke killed Batman's hopes of killing Joker. Batman didn't kill him.

[@thecatherinegriffin2610]

@@joshuaagee-bass4049 uh huh sure buddy.

[@joshuaagee-bass4049]

Kyle Griffin not to mention it’s confirmed there are three different Jokers in DC universe and one is the Killing Joke Joker. All three Jokers are currently alive. Death of the Family also shows Joker being arrested by two cops at a carnival showing what happened at the end of the Killing Joke.

[@thecatherinegriffin2610]

@@joshuaagee-bass4049 I feel bad for you. Thank you for letting me know that Grant Morrison agrees with me. Have a nice day.

[@soljwf5664]

I always thought Oracle was a better character than Batgirl

[@sharpaycutie2]

I cant say why alor of people love it. I love it because ehwe get to see the man that make sthe joker who is. Hives us backstop and a inside to his psychology. Aloto f epeopl wanna make the joker this Rouge physio when he's not. He's been a perosn before and has feeling and thoughts. And this book give us that