Sam Darnold needs to play more like... Kirk Cousins??

Tyler Forness of A to Z Sports joins Judd Zulgad to dig into the meat and potatoes of the Minnesota Vikings' win in London over the Jets to improve to 5-0. Is Sam Darnold starting to hold onto the ball a bit too long? How can the Vikings play a bit more conservatively after gaining a lead without really backing off the gas pedal? How greatly does Aaron Jones impact the offense? What sort of schemes did Brian Flores draw up to attack Aaron Rodgers?
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#MinnesotaVikings #NFL

[@saraxiong]

We’re winning cause Darnold don’t play like Kirk! Stop the nonsense!

[@Tycoonw]

Darnold is just fine

[@mujahudin]

Kirk is a 🐈

[@danielrosencrantz9609]

We definitely, aren't winning just because of darnold, the best defense in damn near evert statistical category is winning us football games, along with the best receiving core in the nfl, with a solid oline, darnold is just driving the car, and he's doing his job.

[@chandlerthoma8503]

Forno has some weird azz takes sometimes.

[@DystopianUtopia8]

Forno is a joke

[@Digits-nf9fo]

When Kirko is 5-0 after beating NHG on the road, SF, HOU, GB, and a JETS team with a top 5 D and a QB who can read and react to coverage and still 5-0, well, then I might "like to listen to that!"...until then, stop it guys....silly season is in the off season, not now.

[@Mic-Purple-Husker]

We need a 3rd quarter game management mode. Where we run, throw screens, run slants, hit short passes, use our TE’s and focus on 1st downs to burn clock and rest the defense. Our defense will be totally gassed by mid season if we don’t. KO must implement this play system for the second half and hit all the things the opposing team is giving.

[@Score1more]

Sam kept several drive alive with his legs. That ain’t happening with Kirk

[@mujahudin]

Nope

[@mujahudin]

We need to stop comparing Darnold to Cousins. 2 totally different QBs. Bottom line: we weren't ever going to win a championship with Kirk, with Darnold.... possibly 🤷🏾‍♂️

[@frankthetank520]

I'd rather lose to a picked off shuffle pass from Sam trying to make a play then to a check down that never stood a chance

[@mujahudin]

@@frankthetank520 no doubt, it's all about taking a chance. A QB that will always check down in the clutch is a QB with no 🍒s

[@unicornhearts]

We also need to stop comparing Sam to JJ McCarthy. Dude’s out for the year and was never going to start this season anyway.

[@codyfulin4469]

If we had kirk we wouldn't be 5-0 that's a fact

[@dwaynemartin2472]

They'd be 5-0 with Kirk. What game would be different?

[@oel734]

@@dwaynemartin2472 The Niners game for one. He would not have made that clutch throw to Nailor with Jefferson, Addison, TJ, and Aaron Jones out.

[@CrudPig12]

​@@dwaynemartin2472I think the SF game goes different. His legs alone have made some big chain moving plays that more than likely would have been sacks with Kirk.

[@DerrickRG]

​@@dwaynemartin2472Wouldn't be able to sign the guys we got on D.

[@dwaynemartin2472]

@@DerrickRG you're right, likely not 5-0 without the extra pieces. I still say they're 5-0 with this roster and Kirk but whatever, that couldn't happen

[@LittleBlueJug]

I read that Flores sometimes will split his gameplan into halves. Maybe KOC could consider to do something similar, where he gameplans the second-half to accommodate assumed adjustments against his first-half gameplan.

[@purplereignCO]

Prediction - Darnold passing numbers go up after the bye. He just got finished with an absolute gauntlet of top tier defenses. Jets might be the best D we face all year and that was in a soccer stadium in the rain. He’s about to ball out starting with DET

[@rheller2086]

The only thing we should be talking about fixing is the punting special teams. That unit has almost single handily lost us a couple games.

[@boxcarent.3147]

Man to man send the routes deep then have Darnold take off for a few first downs. Darnold has good speed.

[@sebastiancanes]

I apologize, but stating that Darnold should be more like Cousins is dumb. Kirk didn't make the throw against the 49ers a year ago with the exact same play, concept, and coverage. Darnold took the freakin' chance and paid off. What should have been said is that KOC needs to call plays at times that call for Darnold to get rid of the ball quicker.

[@purplereignCO]

Difference between Sam and Kirk? Sam wants to hunt even if he sometimes shouldn’t. Kirk didn’t want to hunt even if it was 4th and 8….ill take Darnold all day

[@Young_Star]

I think we all feel when Vikings need 8, Sam will try for at least 8. The critique though it that when we need 2-3, he tried for +30 multiple times.

[@purplereignCO]

@@Young_Staryou’re not wrong; Sam’s just executing what KOC wants. Will be interesting to see JJ McDaggers in this offense next year…

[@oel734]

@@Young_Star And whose fault is that? Sam for doing it or KOC for not reeling him in but instead encouraging him?

[@Young_Star]

@purplereignCO that's really the question. How much is it Sam or KOC. I am all for taking a deep shot when you can get the defense to bite on defending something at the line when in short yardage. The shots he took, though, were pretty low probability.

[@Leroy100]

Seriously? You haven't seen enough of Kirk Ponder?

[@nosbelolivera2238]

So one off game after a terrible hit and yeah crap on him

[@emmanuelporte4201]

You're looking success in the face and still asking for change. That's wild. The Vikings never went 5-0 with Kirk Cousins. Stop it. The takes make no sense.

[@torianmitchell4514]

Agreed!

[@daviddidder3781]

Mobility in Darnold is key to our wins. He just has to trust throwing to an area more, as opposed to a player, like Kirko would do.

[@Paula-mv8im]

And not throwing WAY over receivers' heads like he did in the Jets game. Seems like he had 10 straight incompletions.

[@militarybooks]

Wait a minute. Darnold isn't calling plays. The deep aggression is KOC. I like the new found bury your opponent attitude but it's a little much at the wrong time

[@CrudPig12]

Kirk had more of a say in the game plan and the plays he wanted to run. Plus, I'd be curious to know percentage of plays ran that Kirk checked down on vs taking the deep shot. Though, Darnold does need to take the check down a little more often.

[@edwinjean1242]

Why the hate on Sam Darnold? For the first 4 games, Darnold was the MVP of the league. You guys are something else.

[@StormFalcon657]

Dorko would have us playing close games and not blowing teams out like we do. Sam Darnold has had one bad game against a top passing defense and you dump on him? Cmon now smh.

[@oel734]

Judd is a McCarthy Fanboy who is pissed that Sam is playing as well he has been.

[@oel734]

From the last episode where you had those ridiculous takes on McCarthy taking over for Darnold if he was healthy even after a 5-0 start (and Darnold's performance) and a trade for a 36-year-old Matthew Stafford, to now THIS abomination.... These episodes are two swings and misses with the based loaded and two outs in the bottom of the ninth, fellas.

[@unicornhearts]

Why is it always the talking sports heads that don’t know Sam was always going to start??? 😫😫😫

[@viker63]

Etienne has logged 214 rushing yards and two touchdowns over 47 attempts this season, adding 10 receptions for 48 yards. He is up to 2,437 yards and 18 touchdowns over 534 rushes and 103 catches for 840 yards and one touchdown receiving.

[@First_and_skol]

I'll give Darnold a pass on his bad game. London time zone vs MN time zone, rain, crappy turf, AJones going out in the 1st half, and a top-3 secondary shutting his WRs down. He also hurt his ribs, which effects your throws. Look at all the great QBs who lost on Sunday. We won. Just take the bye to make offensive adjustments, trade for Dexter Lawrence, and let's make a run. Who needs a late 20s 1st rounder for 2025 & 2026 when your biggest SB window in 15 years is wide open right now.

[@richardsmith3772]

Judd keeps trying to put a ceiling on Sam? I think he's setting himself up for a major heartbreak with QB JJ leaving for pics.

[@oel734]

My god...if that ever happened, I would laugh so hard at him and all the McCarthy fanboys leaving these Vikings forums and messageboards for whatever team he ends up on....

[@m.iramiles9310]

He's not calling the plays. Everybody settle down. TJ coming back will fix a lot.

[@beokay1540]

Yeah this episode of PD was pretty unwatchable

[@oel734]

@@beokay1540 I didn't even watch it. I only read the comments here so I am saved from losing brain-cells.

[@torianmitchell4514]

Hot routes, 5-7 yard slants, and more runs are needed!

[@fastallowance68]

The Vikings Vanish….its all the rage dance moves for the second half of any football game.

[@Young_Star]

I completely agree that Sam is trying to hit haymakers too much. Too often they were in short yardage situations and he went for low probability deep shots. I also agree that KOC seems to get into long developing playcalls too often. Just like in a fight, you need to setup with some solid jabs before you throw the big shot.

[@stevelewis2444]

Meanwhile Atlanta in one score games

[@Paula-mv8im]

And the Falcons have proved they can win one score games which is the type of game you get in the playoffs.

[@sethcarson4833]

6 for 92 is not a dud..

[@jameslyon163]

You give Ed Ingram to much biased credit Forno.

[@kargs5krun]

Look at all the dumb comments that can't ascertain click bait when they see a thumbnail. Sub'd just now for good convos going forward. Keep it coming purple bruhs.😊👍

[@mikerhym6084]

So now we're advocating for the check down

[@clintonreisig]

Penalties to kill big chunk plays really annoyed me

[@Oz4k789]

So, a few things during the Jets vs. vikings game. The Vikings were deep into Jets endzone, and we were winning 10 to nothing on 1st half. It's not even 2nd half, and KOC goes on 4th down. I have no idea what the hell he was thinking he should have kicked a field goal. Instead, we get shut down on a 4th down. I would understand its 4th Qtr, but KOC needs to play smarter football. Just kick the field goal, get the 3 points, and move on. Then, on the 2 half, the Jets are about to punt the ball were about to get it back. And we get called on a penalty. We just gave Rodgers the ball back, and he almost came back and tied the game. We're leading the game, and we need to play smarter and clean football. If we can fix those, we are going to do just fine and win those games not close but by large amount of points. Skol!

[@atxaje]

Keep in mind darnold is getting 10mil while kirk was 35mil guaranteed in his contract. So please lower expectations for darnold about 1/3 of what kirk did. I think that’s fair. I also think darnold is already exceeding the expectations.

[@summershark]

Exactly. Kirk isn’t 3x better. And check downs are fine but not on the last play when you’re losing. That’s called stat padding.

[@jarrettjernigan9077]

Some of you all are Missing the points . Sometimes it’s ok to take what the defense gives you

[@jadenbarry6012]

Man, Id love dj reed on the vikings he was awesome

[@AirRyanTX]

That was a new Hellas turf there in London, not certain if it was the exact same one that they just put in the Vikings stadium, but I know it was a good Hellas product. Field looked great. It always rains over there, and everything is going to get slippery when it first starts raining. If you get a chance, go look up Jerry World a couple of weeks ago for Arkansas and Texas A&M. That was the absolute worst looking playing surface in Jerry world that I have ever seen. Not sure what the deal was there on that. Just looked bad.

[@dougquirin8888]

Love the vikings enjoy the ride

[@kbr6783]

You guys should embarrassed on how you are treating Sam. Last week he was your league MVP and now you want him to play like Mr .500 who has not won at any level. Forno is my most disliked analyst in North America.

[@clintonreisig]

They forget the penalties and Sam playing hurt

[@Paula-mv8im]

That's an interesting comparison. Darnold is sub .500 and has never even made it to the playoffs.

[@edward_kenway532gaming3]

This is where Hockenson will take the offense to the next level. He's the perfect big target for Darnold to hit underneath routes to.

[@Paula-mv8im]

Except when Darnold sails the ball WAY over Hockenson's head like he did in the Jets game.

[@edward_kenway532gaming3]

@Paula-mv8im Or maybe like any QB, had an off game. Give the guy a chance to bounce back before just assuming he's awful.

[@dominiquepeppers3500]

😒😒😒 omg didn’t we bitch and complain for Kirk to take risk and make plays and now we having a conversation on darnold needing to play like Kirk come on now bad take smh booooo forno booooo

[@jordanreichow7235]

Forno is the john david booty of skor north

[@dustinsh]

just calm down everyone. :D He didn't say Darnold should play like cousins in general. He just said he should watch other QBs, learn and get better. And Cousins has some skills Darnold could work on. But we shouldn't forget that Darnold has probably his second first season and just give him a bit time. As soon as he started to ball everyone is expecting him to be all around developed.

[@oel734]

Sam said he learned how to study film and gameplans from Brock Purdy in San Fran last season. But I think he is learning plenty from McCown and KOC here and doesn't need to look at OTHER Non-Vikings QBs on how to be a QB.

[@Paula-mv8im]

@@oel734 Mahomes does. He said in a 2021 NFL network interview that he watches pocket QBS like Brady and Kirk to become a better pocket passer.

[@dustinsh]

​@@oel734 well, your are right. Those two (KOC & McCown) are great at what they're doing. Same as LaFleur, Shanahan, Reid,..., because they learned different styles from different teachers, players and from their opponents. Andy Reid even took a play from the Arrow Head janitor. and Mahomes, like @paul-mv8im already mentioned, is watching other QBs. the more you know as more you understand the differences and pros and cons about things. But thats just my opinion. 🙂✌ And maybe for the start is the imput of his HC and position coach enough to work with.

[@billnope7840]

There were some interesting ideas presented today like J Jets dropped balls, and throws that could be better, but it’s all words. This is supposed to be meat and potatoes. It’s supposed to be deeper. Use some film and SHOW me why. Otherwise it’s just another perspective presented in the same way as every other podcast: words, words, words, words, and more words. Just a thought, guys, to improve this show. I know it takes a bit more preparation to produce a show like that, but it will be MUCH better. It will be unique.

[@jeffaltier5582]

Running game may come down to how Myles Gaskin plays. I'm not sold at all on Chandler.

[@danielsharp3683]

It has nothing to do with Sam Darnold and everything to do with Kevin O Connel!!!!!! Playing QB in the NFL is 50 times harder than being a head coach and a play caller!!!!!!

[@ftmaddyman]

Nicolet Law has same commercial but he walking thru Lambeau Field

[@brinaldi81]

Man that's some Click Bait or what lol

[@Shinobifoxx]

All i know is that if Cousins was qb they definitely don't beat the Jets

[@oel734]

Cousins would not have driven the ball down the field to get a crucial 3 points to make it a 6 point game and force the Jets to go down the field against this Flores D to get a TD. Kirk would've thrown checkdown passes which would've been either deflected or intercepted.

[@lukelee3]

No, he needs to pay more like mahomes. Win.

[@unicornhearts]

What is 5-0? Chiefs are barely winning games and Mahomes isn’t lighting up any scoreboards. People give them a pass because they won three super bowls in five years, and Sam was playing for the Jets, which Aaron Rodgers is right now and he looks like ass. This is not Green Bay Super Bowl champion and 4 time MVP. This is Aaron Rodgers: Jets version. Put Patrick Mahomes on the Jets and see what happens. He didn’t have to start right away as the youngest quarterback ever since the merger. He sat a year behind Alex Smith.

[@deanmortenson8837]

OMG shut up please ... you destroyed Kirk while he was in Minnesota

[@violetvalkyrie476]

Stop!!! He was playing hurt. This is ridiculous.

[@leefears2307]

Those 6-15 yrd passes will happen. Enter Hock return. That's why that part of the game is missing

[@tmcdwldr]

I feel like those 1st have drives that Sam has scooted for a fresh 4 would have been 3 and outs with Cousins...

[@Paula-mv8im]

Kirk would have made an accurate pass to get the first downs. The Falcons have had a lot of 1st and 20's because of penalties and they have been converting them because of Kirk's accuracy and connection with his receivers. The Vikings had four straight 3 and outs in the Jets game. It seemed like Darnold had 10 straight passes that were incomplete / WAY over the receivers' heads.

[@mikerhym6084]

3rd and 1 before the half and you throw the ball that's not play calling when you're doing fine you're running down the clock

[@TheOGMattBurns]

When T.J. gets back we'll have more options in the middle of the field.

[@loryang9322]

Not every game is pretty and perfect, and considering this is the first time all these free agents have played together with the current players and we are 5-0, that’s should say a lot about these players and coaches.

[@loryang9322]

While Kirk gave us great games, these 5 games have given us more hope than the last 6 years.

[@Ivoeur]

Everyone is so critical of Sam and this is after a win. Imagine once we lose. The world will end. It’s always easy to pick apart a game when you’re not playing. Chill out people were 5 and 0. Enjoy it.

[@yolo25000]

In a nutshell, here's the major difference between Kirk and Sam...on 4th and 8 with a minute left, a dump off pass is not in Sam's dna. Sam would have either sprinted right up the middle, or more likely, sailed a pass to Jets in the endzone, regardless of the double team. At minimum, they have to rush to the line to spike it after a first down. At worst, it gets picked. At best he makes a legendary throw, because Jets is, well....JETS.

[@Paula-mv8im]

Come on...he'd have gotten sacked or thrown to TJ. There was no where to run and Ezra Cleveland didn't block his guy. Darnold also holds onto the ball for a super long time....his pocket time is 2.7 seconds which is tied with Purdy for longest in the league. Darnold is not known for his deep passing. But.....Kirk makes Next Gen stats top 10 deep passers list every year. If Darnold did get manage to get a deep pass it would have sailed way over JJ head which is what Darnold did lot during the Jets game.

[@yolo25000]

@@Paula-mv8im OK. My point was there could have been multiple outcomes, dump off short paas wouldn't have been one of them because of the difference in mental makeup.

[@rapGameCharizardCard]

Forno is unlistenable. Put Judd back on before I die he fit in much better there , put miles back on here make it on draft again so nobody watches again

[@skol_undergroud2381]

Fornie you have always been my favorite between you and Thor Nystrom but your take on Darnold is way off. Darnold is walking that line perfectly fine. I have said it time and time again that the last 6 quarters were not on Darnold. If you look at the first 3 games, they were spreading the ball around and then Darnold was taking his shots. Was Darnold perfect absolutely not but he was taking what the defense was giving him then taking shots. The last 6 quarters KOC was forcing it to Aaron Jones in the second half and then he was trying to force feed Jefferson in London all game. He had 14 targets meanwhile Nailor had ZERO!! The last six quarters have been less about execution and more about play calling.

[@MrTeetime]

I don't want him to play anything like safety stats Kirk. Darnold is Darnold..5-0. Kirk is in Atlanta, 3-2, should be 2-3, doing what he did in Mn. 35 million dollar Jefferson needs to quit dropping passes.

[@Paula-mv8im]

doing what he did in MN....and that would be winning games. Kirk has lead a clutch game winning drive in each one of their wins. According to Next Gen Stats, the Falcons' win probability against the Philadelphia Eagles, New Orleans Saints and Buccaneers bottomed out at 1%, 26% and 5%, respectively. That's a 0.013% - or 1 in 7,692 - chance to win all three games, which Atlanta did. That's the type of quarterback you want in the playoffs which are gonna be close games and not blow-outs.

[@MrTeetime]

@@Paula-mv8im How many seasons would it take to understand exactly what Kirk is? He is a zirconia diamond. Personally, I saw more than enough of that man and his continuous dog-fights with every single win, no matter the opponent. We will see what year 16, 3rd team, will bring Kirk.

[@000JonnyBoothworthy]

Funny... Darnold can be better at cousins than cousins can be a Darnold 🤔

[@unicornhearts]

Are there any sports media people who actually like Sam Darnold, because even when he wins, you still talk about McCarthy and how he’s the future, when he couldn’t even make it to the regular season. Sam’s been beat up emotionally, mentally, and physically and it has to stop. Even when he’s winning, there’s still the residual toxic Jets narrative. Look at what the Jets have done to literally every quarterback they’ve had., including Aaron Rodgers. They’re not one quarterback away! They’re the Jets! Everybody tempers their criticisms about Sam, too. It’s adding further insult to insult and disguising it as compliments from a frenemy. Cut the shit.

[@oel734]

To answer your initial question, Dan Orlovsky is a Darnold supporter.

[@unicornhearts]

@@oel734Yes, I know. I have his “magical sloppiness” shirt from when Sam played for the Jets.

[@Score1more]

I agree that’s what made Brady great . He could go with either

[@Score1more]

Maybe Koc took those out of the offense because that was KC first choice

[@Score1more]

He’s also open to the big hit when he’s standing in the pocket that long.

[@oel734]

Who? Kirk? Yeah he his. At least Sam can escape the big hit more often than not with his legs.

[@Paula-mv8im]

​@@oel734 Darnold... he has the longest pocket time in the NFL. A quarterback like Darnold, who is a slow processor at reading defenses, is gonna have to take off to avoid getting hit. Darnold has always struggled in the critical areas that Kirk thrives in: pocket presence, reading defenses, decision-making, and accuracy. The football data website Reception Perception tracked every throw by Kirk in 2022 and found that his passes on slants, posts and corner routes were among the best in the NFL. His near 91% accuracy on corners is obscene. Patrick Mahomes only hit 70% accuracy on corners. Joe Burrow? 50%. Not even Aaron Rodgers (87%) matched him. These throws require calculations by the quarterback to be made at hyper speed.

[@Big_Bake]

No we need Darnold to play like he did last month. Scaling back the offense will have us plating like we did last year, .500

[@oel734]

We need Darnold to be HEALTHY. That hit to the ribs affected him greatly. The BYE week has come at a very opportune time.

[@cherrybank124]

I swear you guys talk about these fields as if all the NFL fields are flawless, you see guys slipping every single week

[@ftmaddyman]

Your wrong, Cousins would of been sacked atleast 6 times

[@Paula-mv8im]

Not when Kirk gets the ball out WAY quicker than Darnold who has the longest pocket time in the NFL.

[@pauleyestone7739]

Looking at yous twos...more meat, fewer potatoes.

[@KingDavid-D37]

Sam Darnold needs to play more like. Kirk Cousins I am going to ignore that comment and give you benefit of a doubt. 🤣 Kirk plays better as angry Kirk. I hear what you're saying but they want to be the best offence there going to stay aggressive. You need to adjust. 🤣

[@sambriski6651]

Dalvin Cook is just sitting on the Cowboys practice squad… Just saying.

[@RI-yz8do]

@sambriski6651 - yeah, no thanks. While I absolutely LOVED DC in his prime, I mean he's getting ZERO run in Dallas who has NO running attack. That speaks volumes. Sadly I think he's washed, just too many accumulated injuries.

[@Paula-mv8im]

@@RI-yz8do They probably would have a run game if Dalvin was on the roster and actually played.

[@Headless-Norseman]

Ever try to throw a ball with injured ribs? Didn't think so.

[@Paula-mv8im]

Kirk did it in 2022 when he was the most hit quarterback that season and threw for 4547 yards because of the 28th ranked run game.

[@rexrogers1859]

Moronic take 😂😂😂 SKOL!

[@LerenzoTheGreat]

Meat and potatos doesn't mean deep dive it means basic you, Dolts

[@420Sportz]

KirkTober will be over soon.

[@Paula-mv8im]

You obviously do not know what Kirktober is.....smh. It's the start of things. Because then you have Kirkvember...Kirkcember...etc etc. What was the Vikings' record in 2022? And when did things start to improve in 2023??? The team was ascending from October into November.

[@joshnewman6667]

😂😂😂

[@jemood2100]

His Tennessee takes are horrible

[@unicornhearts]

Well you certainly did a 180, didn’t you?

[@ljvue]

Stop the Kirk disrespect. With this defense, Kirk could’ve taken us to a superbowl.

[@Gorrilasportsbetting]

😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@jgberzerker]

Vikings defense ranked 4th overall Kirk’s first year, so . . . .

[@Gorrilasportsbetting]

@@jgberzerker yep and he lost a win and in game against the bears backups

[@joshnewman6667]

4/8

[@StormFalcon657]

Delusional

[@unicornhearts]

Tell me you hate Sam without telling me. 🥱

[@vikings1stskol92]

I can promise you I don't hate Sam lol