Sam Debates Libertarian On Student Debt Relief

[@KA-gy3lz]

As someone who came from a “rich” family and went to college, I 1000% had an insane advantage over my friends and schoolmates who went into college that were not as financially well off/were paying off student loans. I got to focus 100% on school, had extra time to join extracurricular activities that built my resume up, had extra time to network, etc. Some of my friends that had to take out loans in order to pay for the tuition, had to work 2 jobs on top of having to take the same amount of classes as me. No only did they have way less time to join extracurricular activities which really help build your resume to stick out to employers, but they also ended up doing a lot worse in their classes because they had waaaaaay less time than me to do their schoolwork

[@harrybillings23]

And the for profit universities do absolutely nothing to relieve the stress of working and studying at the same time. But nooo poor people are just lazy that explains everything

[@BACKSPIN9ball]

So you sympathize with people that have a college degree that is worth something but you’re not willing to do the same for us who never even went

[@KA-gy3lz]

@@BACKSPIN9ball my comment has absolutely nothing to do with people who didn't go to college lmao read it again

[@Cole444Train]

@@BACKSPIN9ballthis is the fallacy of relative privation. Just bc people who didn’t go to school need financial assistance, does not mean we can’t help those who did go to school and are in debt bc of it. You’d be hard pressed to find someone who supports college debt relief but doesn’t support other kinds of debt relief for people who didn’t go to college. The whole idea behind social Democratic policies is helping people who need it. I want to help people like you AND people with student debt. Not just one and not the other.

[@MrRhomas913]

But you do not have the satisfaction of saying that your accomplishments were done by yourself and yourself alone; and you miss the experiences of working in diverse jobs with diverse people, and struggling in paying bills, and allocating time between work, play and studies. That builds character.

[@tmoore2010]

We do need more English majors because we have a teacher shortage. We also need to pay them better uniformly.

[@michaelschwentner3458]

I was thinking the same thing. Dude acts like English is useless.

[@Selcryn]

@Rachel Forshee I doubt it would help, a lot of Libertarians don't want to fund society, they just want to benefit from it. Paying teachers what they are actually worth would be funding society.

[@avrdrums]

@Rachel Forshee Agreed.

[@MaxRebo72]

Exactly. We need more teachers, but you don't see everyone raising the ones who are struggling to get by on poverty wages. He doesn't want taxpayer money to help kids with the cost of college. How does he think public school is paid for?

[@OstrichRidingCowboy]

We need more English teachers because every Libertarian bro seems to have their own definition of "classical liberal" (and "libertarian").

[@tmoore2010]

If they got rid of the home loan tax deduction this guy would be paying another $6000 in taxes to the federal government per year and he'd be crying about that

[@judethaddeus9856]

He’s not a homeowner.. these ppl fight and argue about stuff like this that’s not even affecting them because they’ll do anything they can think to promote their party

[@ChildofIcarus]

The Libertarian position is that no one should be paying that tax to begin with--for there to even be a "tax deduction".

[@imwrongbutlisten]

If you make homeownership more expensive, more people would have to rent. Follow the money

[@ChildofIcarus]

@@allthingsconsideredaa this doesn't address what I wrote.

[@stickyfox]

People like this just form an llc for the sake of skirting taxes. None of these "pay your own way" people *ever* put back into the system.

[@kevinavelar3284]

“Most people at my school were there for the piece of paper and to get drunk” Spoken like a true Econ major lmao

[@creationzikaz4836]

Yeah, nevermind the fact that it's purely anecdotal and based on nothing but his feelings about it and spoken like pure fact.

[@brianchampaigne5490]

​@@creationzikaz4836I mean even though this dude's an idiot and is speaking about nothing he still kind of proves our point. College is worth it especially for that piece of paper and to network with the future of the country. If that means getting drunk then so be it 😂. My friend owns a multi billion dollar business which he built with his friends from college.

[@toest1315]

And followed up with "also I didn't learn anything when I was in college😂

[@regi4834]

burniest burn of the comment section

[@jessize4503]

Dood thinks non stem degrees are a waste, as he decorates his wall with art (with a poetic inscription) a cubist inspired wall shelf, ergonomic designed ear buds and a stylish haircut. An econ major who would die without creative things around him to consume, adore, showcase and engage with.

[@nosender2399]

🔊 Louder for the libertarians in the back🔊

[@TheJzako]

At least he is wearing a style of shirt that hasn't changed since the 40s. So he has that going for him.

[@LiftedGamingLoL]

Wait, no! Not like that, silly. Only people who are rich enough to spend money on liberal arts are allowed to engage in them. Millennials who own homes and have zero student debt and study economics are productive. Simply stated, he learned early in his education that ART is not subject to capital gains, and as such is a perfect investment asset. It's only fair, since he was able to effectively leverage a spotless credit rating to catapult his productive, necessary investments into stocks that he knows historically use buybacks to decrease their tax exposure. You see, he just learned how to play the game, and he should be compensated in the form of enabling him to "work from home" - where he intelligently picks the most comprehensive wallstreetbets DD. Simply put, in practice he lives completely self sufficiently. Why should HE have to pay taxes for the other poor people to use the internet, or pay for the SEC's existence? HE knows what he's doing. This world is so crazy nowadays. Everyone just wants everyone else to pay their way in society, and it isn't right. People are SO woke and entitled nowadays. (Please, don't make me /s this)

[@agun214]

society can't live on STEM alone, you gotta have humanities or else you get fascists

[@agun214]

case in point: n4zi germany made the best rockets but for the worst reasons

[@denisdaly1708]

This guy has no idea that education is a social good, that benefits all in society. His problem is that he is far too individualistic. I live in Ireland. We have free education, like most countries in Europe. We therefor are highly educated, the most in the world, and have world class organisations here. It has been a great investment. And yes, the more money spent in the early years, still yields the best outcomes. Therefore there should be free child care. His education was poor.

[@TheBiggestMoronYouKnow]

conservatives are just bad faith too often, they just don't want what's good for people

[@mjm2253]

He’s a shill for Charles Koch who in turn is a Bircher who doesn’t want brown and black and any poor people have any ability to have socioeconomic power

[@Kropothead]

Education here is truly, comprehensively awful. Our leaders see it as an unnecessary frivolity for the lower classes, if not an active threat to the status quo.

[@oscarg8449]

Ireland has world class organizations because it’s a tax haven; which just proves how free markets work. It is also not the only country where education is paid for by the Government. Education is not a social good when it leads to pointless degrees and other people end up having to pay for it because it’s a net loss. Some people would be better off not pursuing a degree

[@janeryan2709]

@@oscarg8449 Net loss how exactly?

[@denisdaly1708]

So his argument is that 100% of students should study finance. So who will teach, who will be dentists? I am an organisational psychologist. Degrees from the arts are valuable in business because they can help groups understand problems in a different way, and come up with better problem solving strategies. Gee, he is uneducated.

[@noble7461]

Maybe if his teachers were paid well he wouldn’t be caught in never ending circular logic.

[@StayceeNoel]

His argument is that there should be some constraints to guide people on what careers they should pursue. You can be anything you want to be, but if your dream is to be a librarian, and 1,000 other students in your school also graduate with the same degree, where could they all possibly work? Cities can’t just build 100 new libraries so that students can live out their dream careers. Either there is enough demand for that job or there isn’t. If you choose a career that is not in demand, that shouldn’t be anyone else’s responsibility to subsidize your poor career planning. There are fields that in short supply of workers. Would society be better off with 1,000 new librarians when there’s a shortage of doctors and nurses? Choices people make for themselves absolutely have an impact on all of us, so if your dream job doesn’t fulfill a market need, then you should have to take the financial risk on your own. That’s the point he’s making.

[@ihsahnakerfeldt9280]

@StayceeNoel I find the premises underlying your (and the debater's) logic to be truly peculiar and very telling. One such premise is that student loan debt is somehow a good or desirable incentive for people to get into STEM majors. You can make an argument about how it's good for society to incentivize people to get into these majors but "so that you'd be able to pay off your student loan debt you'd otherwise be swimming in" should NOT be one any successful society considers, let alone parrots as desirable by the likes of this guy. Student loan debt in a very wealthy country is a sign of the absolute failure of a system to provide education at reasonable and affordable prices to its citizens and should never be taken so matter-of-fact-ly. The fact that so many Americans treat it that way is a testament to the brain rot caused by unfettered capitalism convincing people that expecting to end your college education WITHOUT any debt is somehow entitled. Another premise is that the only thing that matters when it comes to career choice for a society at large is profit. Art, sociology, psychology, etc these are all important for society, maybe not as valuable per person aas STEM degrees but they still have their place. People already receive a penalty for going for lower-paying jobs in the form of lower income (obviously) and everybody understands that it's part of the deal since they either produce less value or require lower investment, so in this case I understand the point of saying they're taking a financial risk by going into them instead of STEM. The problem and the reason none of what you discussed here matters is that we're discussing student loan debt here. People shouldn't be getting into so much debt to begin with. I also love how the exorbitant debts STEM majors end up with (I've heard around 200,000 for medical school) completely destroy the incentive argument. You don't address the shortage of doctors and nurses (which definitely has to do with the high student loan debts) by promoting debt as an incentive to get into STEM.

[@etienne2315]

I can tell this guy is an econ major, he sees the purpose of living in a society as making loads of money and not doing things you cant make a big return of investment on.

[@bananian]

He's a hammer and sees people as nails.

[@Matt-cr4vv]

Nope he’s a poli-sci major

[@viresinnumeris1948]

The purpose is to survive, but that is lost on us more and more by counting on big daddy government issuing more debt on our behalf and financing every single bad decision. Problem is when debt becomes unsustainable (>130% debt to GDP) and suddenly reality and survival becomes very real and you need to have real life skills when society is collapsing around you. Think this is far fetched? Maybe check your recency bias and dig up some numbers and trends.

[@mofishin2648]

His point about gearing post-secondary to benefit students to those that are pursuing careers in STEM, engineering and medical professions makes sense to me though.

[@copsuicide]

I can tell he's a soulless fish-eyed freak

[@gooadam]

The man said that more people studying to be doctors and engineers would cause the wages to go up in those professions. He said that with a straight face and zero pauses. Sam is being way too nice through this thing. Dude has a baby brain.

[@brothermine2292]

I think you misinterpreted him. I think he meant people who choose to be doctors or lawyers or computer programmers instead of poets or gym teachers would earn more for themselves as a result of that choice. Personally, I wouldn't want to rely on a mediocre doctor or lawyer or coder who doesn't have that aptitude and would prefer being a poet or teacher or social worker or gym teacher.

[@granudisimo]

@@brothermine2292 So many people are doctors because it pays well, rather than because they have a genuine healer's vocation, that it makes me scared for my health, and I say this while living in a country where college is rather affordable.

[@gooadam]

I get that. If someone isn't passionate about their profession then it's hard to trust their work. However, I honestly think dude thinks that flooding pre-med programs would give you more doctors AND higher wages somehow. Even in a perfect world where everyone entering pre-med graduates, you're saturating the ever-loving heck out of that field. Fewer jobs for more people means a willingness to take less for the same jobs that used to pay more.

[@brothermine2292]

@@gooadam : What did the guy say that causes you to believe he thinks wages of doctors etc would increase if there were many more of them? I don't recall him saying that, and he's obviously familiar with the principle of supply & demand.

[@granudisimo]

@@gooadam "Even in a perfect world where everyone entering pre-med graduates, you're saturating the ever-loving heck out of that field. Fewer jobs for more people means a willingness to take less for the same jobs that used to pay more." A perfect world doesn't exist and it can't exist, but you can get closer with universal healthcare so medical professionals are a protected class with guaranteed salaries (except when capitalist austerity thieves implement their cuts in the name of a childish understanding of inflation and government spending), and free college so you make sure that, if not "flooded", at least you don't have people with a healer's vocation that can't afford to even think, about affording college, who have to settle for minimum wage jobs. Also, thinking that the medical field can get saturated, when health issues are something people don't generally choose as they'd choose a cellphone, is the most inane statement I've heard in a while, congratulations.

[@dilorama01]

Love this guy talking about how we need market incentives to get more ppl to be doctors, while ignoring that the current market incentive is don’t be a doctor or you’ll be $200,000 in debt

[@screenarts]

You can't become a doctor. Ama, limits the number of doctors graduating. You can't get a seat.

[@stickyfox]

@@screenarts If Mehmet Oz can be a heart surgeon, you and I can be doctors.

[@screenarts]

@@stickyfox roflmfao!

[@cf3714]

@@stickyfox Ben Carson was a neurosurgeon...

[@stickyfox]

@@cf3714 I feel like most politicians bragging about their medical degrees practiced for 0-6 months before becoming full-time politicians; and wouldn't know what drawer the cotton balls are in today.

[@TitoLounge11]

I did everything this guy suggests and still ended up with $20k+ debt. I went to community college for 2 years, then transferred to a state school for another 3 years and graduated with a STEM degree. Didn't dorm, didn't study basket weaving, didn't take out any more loans than what was needed to pay for my classes coming from a lower-middle class family.

[@jerryhickin9551]

Yeah, but, I mean, you're easily making 250,000-500,000 a year now right? That debt should be gone by your third month of employment! Or are you trying to tell us Libertarians have no idea what they're talking about 😉

[@auggiedoggiesmommy1734]

It’s ALWAYS basket weaving as the example…never history that impacts decisions at the highest level of Government. Pretty sure the people advising POTUS weren’t STEM majors.

[@garysmokesmeat]

How much are you earning as a result of that $20k education?

[@calvinmiguel4405]

You didn’t go get any instate grants or scholarships? I went to to CC and transferred too. Graduated with only 10k in debt from loans I took out to pay for books, rent, and to go on vacations. Graduated as an engineer and won’t have any issue paying it back if I need to.

[@thorshammer138]

I find it extremely hard to believe that you can't easily afford to pay off 20k in debt over 10 years with a stem degree unless you're just not that good at what you got a degree in.

[@itsmealex8959]

This guy boils down life to being an economic agent.

[@pulgaroja93]

Every neolib econ dude does the same its amazing, ive got a friend thats been talking about learning how to code since 2011 and basically every other idiotic take this man has

[@itsmealex8959]

@punto coma I'm an econ major and I swear there's sooo many neolib NPCs in my classes. Though they rarely excel at the course material.

[@ILoveAnchovies334]

@@itsmealex8959 that is fascinating. They seem to have a very simplistic world view that only has one colored lens to view it through: Green.

[@mckenzie.latham91]

libertarians in a nut shell: all morality is dictated by a cost benefit analysis and a spreadsheet

[@dantefekete7617]

@@itsmealex8959, as a graduate in public policy, I found these people were way over represented.

[@kipbarnhill8848]

Everytime you dig into people like Brad's ideology you find its driven by a small number of personal experiences.

[@noble7461]

Let me tell you about my gym teacher…

[@denisdaly1708]

ya, not the brightest at all.

[@Khalkara]

And a lack of empathy.

[@Lee-qu4ce]

Mostly selfishness. I don't have student loans bc I was very strategic about it. I also think there should be student loan debt cancelation bc I don't just think about myself.

[@lindseystein9676]

@Lee-Ann I don’t have student debt either. I was very lucky that my wealthy aunt and uncle paid the $10k for me to go through cosmetology school. I’m still for student debt cancellation. I don’t understand the people who are resentful of the 10-20k student debt cancellation. So many people lack empathy.

[@meoffrey]

so basically, if ur rich, u can chase ur dreams. if ur poor, be a good worker.

[@marbury2403]

That's a good assessment of what we saw.

[@acreativename2781]

Can someone tell me the difference between libertarians and conservatives?

[@floepiejane]

@@acreativename2781 right?!

[@floepiejane]

Well said, Metrey

[@theaviationist.5719]

@@acreativename2781 I think conservatism is more of cultural / social, while Libertarianism is about freedom to do whatever my narcissistic self wants.. These libertarian / conservative people have a psychopathic personality trait according to human biology and psychological studies.. It's all about Me Me and more Me with them.. Narcissism, Selfishness and Greed...

[@jacjac_0]

'Libertarianism is like astrology for men....'

[@denisdaly1708]

ya

[@garyscarborough4346]

So Brad is right, in that people with college degrees earn more money. They also pay more taxes. Data collected from the GI Bill found that for every dollar that was invested in education, $7 extra in taxes were collected from that person during their life time. Its an investment. Not a gift.

[@thinktankdonahue]

30 percent of degrees have a negative ROI, so his point is still correct that the investment being burdened by society still leads to negative marginal returns. People investing in their own education would still pay more in taxes.

[@maxdixonman]

​@@thinktankdonahuethat means 70% have positive ROI's

[@jonlivesley]

Plus it's a investment in society and not just the individual. The more educated teachers, to take an obvious example, the more educated students we'll have. And that doesn't get corrected by the market like Brad thinks. That's obvious to anyone who's seen a public school. Free markets don't work everywhere. They only work when there's lots of unhindered competition in both supply and demand.

[@thinktankdonahue]

@@maxdixonman Yes that means we should stop trying to send more kids to college who don't belong there because that number will grow.

[@thinktankdonahue]

@@jonlivesley It's not a good investment. Thinking that government spending will somehow solve problems or produce superior results is putting hope in a false God. We spend less than Europe as a percent of GDP and that's a major reason we have a stronger economy and better average wages.

[@InvisibleInque]

So many of this man’s arguments drive me absolutely crazy. Does he think that people who have student loan debt DON’T pay taxes? Wouldn’t they then be keeping their own money, just like the homeowner? And why does he assume that the janitor didn’t go to college?

[@weevala]

@Invisible Inque I was thinking the same thing!!

[@3rdBlkGuy]

He thinks that for the college debt the gov is giving them 10k. Instead of saying you dont have to pay that 10k back. Its the same as home ownership because you get the loan and then dont have to pay it all back.

[@BaronVonQuiply]

I'm reminded of a comic panel I saw with a guy working Drive Thru at a fast food place, wearing his graduation cap and gown, and asking the customer "Would you like a copy of my graduate thesis with that?". And this was years and years ago. 1/3rd of college grads work jobs that do not require any degree whatsoever, 8% are working jobs that do not require one to complete high school.

[@tyleraugustine2436]

Most of these types of people have no idea of what a typical lower class cost of living to income ratio looks like, its just bad faith arguments based on a very uninformed perspective of what they have been told working class life is like.

[@oscarg8449]

All people who are working pay taxes, so why should those who went to college get their debt paid for by other working people?

[@hugoschkiglitz]

I’m a simple man, I see Sam vs Libertarian debate, I click and get popcorn ready.

[@Twisted_Cabage]

This guy haas no idea how much of our society is a result of horribly paid people who put in a lot of time and effort to obtain an education.

[@p.chuckmoralesesquire3965]

"people are taking up degrees banking on student loan relief, what I mean is I'm so morally bankrupt I told my friends to do it since they will get forgiven by democrats anyway, also this is a band aid on a bullet hole and solves nothing" what the f man this guy is a living meme.

[@smokelord2002]

Maybe if our society wasn't preyed on by corporations and the elite and actually paid living wages this wouldn't be a problem regardless of their subject of studies.

[@kyleevans5182]

Just want to sincerely express my support for you debating these kinds of people. I think knowing how to speak against these ideas and defend your own is a much needed skill.

[@joshanderson3640]

Lol sure, Sam got destroyed by logic and morals. Great example 😂😂

[@timothyletwin5911]

"If your college degree won't make you enough to pay for it". He kinda just proved the point of student debt relief with that statement.

[@oscarg8449]

He just proved that they have made a stupid decision which society has to pay for because people like you say so. Universities realizing this know they can just jack up the prices and make even more money as they know the government will pay for it

[@yourneighborhoodfriendlyme4242]

exactly.

[@noFNbody]

No, because you made a poor choice of your life's investment. If you are given the information to form an educated decision, and you make a poor decision, why should someone else be forced to pay for it?

[@timothyletwin5911]

@@noFNbody I understand, but many of those professions or careers that require extensive education are lesser paying jobs. At the same time many of those are required in our society like nursing or teaching for instance.

[@noFNbody]

@@timothyletwin5911 if we had a true Free Market, careers needed by society wouldn't be paid as low as they are. Society doesn't currently dictate the market though, does it?

[@angelasylvain2476]

3rd frustration is that Sam didn’t call out where the generational wealth predominantly came from - the post-war subsidy of home buying vs. red lining.

[@wgcorndog9662]

Sam had him backed into several defeated positions and then backed away without pushing it. I'm guessing that was on purpose so he could keep beating the caller into the corner on another position. Seemed like he was just playing with his food. Sad he didn't go for a knockout punch towards the end, though.

[@Ultramarine4th]

@@wgcorndog9662 yeah, he was already making him look like and idiot no need to completely embarrass him and make him leave the show.

[@wgcorndog9662]

@@Ultramarine4th To be fair, though, I'm not sure a libertarian has the self awareness required to be humiliated. Otherwise they wouldn't be a libertarian.

[@angelasylvain2476]

@@wgcorndog9662 100% admit I was watching this in the same way I imagine people watch prize fights - makes me particularly appreciate your description. I was full-on standing and yelling at my iPad.

[@Knighfe]

I love him talking about his college experience like it’s everyone’s experience 😂

[@furiousapplesack]

He clearly harbors resentment for not being invited to parties. Soulless goons are usually not the best at social functions.

[@johnnyguillotine1673]

Everything they learn they then base their lived experience to that and act like everyone has that same experience. When they hear different they assume you or your parents did something wrong to cause that experience to happen.

[@Knighfe]

@@johnnyguillotine1673 exactly! I used to have the same mindset. And then I graduated high school.

[@NotimetoVero]

Didn’t know god went to High school

[@johnnyguillotine1673]

@@NotimetoVero he played football for the Romans

[@FFLUXX]

It’s ironic that he said society needs more doctors and the singular most impactful reason we don’t have enough doctors is because it costs too much to get the education and people don’t want to take on the debt. 2mil average for an MD. I wanted to be a psychiatrist but after running all the numbers I would get out of debt until I was 59… the problem is college is too expensive and we need to nationalize it to fix the problem or we will slump behind all of the other countries that have made college free…

[@mckenzie.latham91]

It’s also funny, in the nordic countries college free tuition is law of the land, they have next to no unemployment and most of their society is kept safe by a social safety net It literally is an antithesis to any anti-free college rhetoric i’ve ever seen.

[@Fredrikwikberg]

@@mckenzie.latham91 yes its true and btw i live in north sweden

[@sepnot]

​@mckenzie.latham91 The sick, sad, and disgusting part is the same people who are anti-high education, free or otherwise, will point to the Nordic countries and say they can do that and we can't is due to their "ethnic hegemony." It's literally hatred of the poor and minorities driving these types of people. There's zero evidence that shows free education at all levels is a net negative, unless you say it's a "moral hazard" to give some people the same privileges that others were born into.

[@Zer0--Zer0]

@@mckenzie.latham91 Well you see, the difference between America and some Nordic countries is that Nordic countries actually care if their citizens can live a relatively comfortable life free from insane debt.

[@TheNin011]

and do u wonder why it cost so much?

[@DrArucard]

Starting pay as a developer of $16.50 an hr in Chicago about 8 years go. Came from a low economic standing family. Still not at 6 figures. Seder is exactly right, generational wealth provides higher paying possibility.

[@iderbolis]

getting to 6 figures in 8 years? What are you, Bill Gates? That's very rare.

[@JazzyfromAustin]

keep going man. You can do it.

[@markd.s.8625]

​@@iderbolisop is responding to the caller's answer to the question 37:00 in suggesting that coding is what's going to "return the investment"

[@jackmonki]

Anyone who brings up "gender studies degrees" while talking about this, simply does not realize that even people with engineering degrees are in debt

[@jaredgreathouse3672]

"Gender studies degrees hurr durr" like my man I studied political science 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@danlopez.3592]

OK so let’s pay off their debts. Get out of here

[@utubepunk]

@@danlopez.3592 Sounds good to me.

[@danlopez.3592]

@@utubepunk I can send you address to send money. But you probably won’t because you’re a hypocrite. If I am wrong and you are not I genuinely would like you to send money to pay off my child’s student debt.

[@wongfeihongneyseal3731]

@@jaredgreathouse3672 I studied political science too and am without a job, I don't blame anyone. Whether we like it or not, reality is that society functions on supply and demand principle. Barbers make more than me.

[@nunyabusiness9056]

I really think sam should start off all these debates with "Tell us your name and the net worth of your parents." I've met a ton of libertarians and i really struggle to recall iv'e ever met one who wasn't athe child of wealthy or upper middle class parents who had at the absolute worst zero financial pressures on them from the obligation to take care of family because obviously their family can take care of itself. Try being the child of impoverished parents and then you hit 20 and one of them needs medical care that they can't afford or assistance with bills or rent and suddenly that poverty is bleeding into the kids lives and making them more impoverished.

[@tunelowplayslow5623]

He would say that you should have planned 20 years in advance for might come. This guy knows everything. Just ask him.

[@majorlazor5058]

Everything about this guy smells of privilege. We all know Daddy paid for his college and probably loaned him money to buy his first home. They always seem to ignore the vast majority of American’s don’t have a rich daddy to help us “pay our own way”.

[@michaelroberts4377]

But the reason health care, college and rent is so unaffordable is because there are no libertarians, it is all caused by government subsidies and regulation

[@bobbyomari5500]

@@michaelroberts4377 false, it is uniquely a U.S. problem where we prioritize capitalism and the byproduct of capitalism is turning these basic necessity markets into for-profit cash cows that benefit executives and shareholders while prices skyrocket. Lack of regulation, oversight, and enablement of lobbying has screwed Americans.

[@bobbyomari5500]

@@ogzombieblunt4626 huh I’m not talking about over regulation of housing market. I’m referring to healthcare and education specifically without actually saying it. And I’m saying there’s little to no regulation.

[@whitebelt2905]

The problem is that a bachelors degree is no longer considered higher education. It’s become what a high school diploma used to be. The bare minimum. Universities are aware of this and are taking advantage of students by charging exorbitant tuition.

[@Brynnthebookworm]

I dropped out of college after two years with the corresponding debt, and therefore don't count as having anything higher than a high school diploma to most people. My best friend did graduate with an undergrad degree, and the corresponding higher amount of debt. Neither of us had any help financially from our parents or from scholarships. It's now 18 years out from our high school graduation. We both have steady jobs that we've been in for a number of years. She would have been paid more for several years while I was working my way up my company, but now she only makes roughly $5,000 more than me per year even though she has a degree and I don't. She does still have higher debt than me, and both of us are still paying on it. However my lifestyle seems to have me better off than her because I am able to live out in a lower cost city since my job is work from home, and she must remain in a higher cost city for her work. I own my home and live alone, and she still rents with roommates. I know this is just an anecdote, but from our lives, the degree did not help her to earn however much more than me that would have been expected. From other people around my age that I know, college is only worth it if you are going to do more than an undergrad degree.

[@dustinseth1]

Charging a high tuition would actually combat the problem though. Fewer people would be able to afford a degree, so fewer employers could afford to require it.

[@nousernamesarevalid]

A big part of the reason they charge so much is because so many people pay that much due to student loans. If there were mo student loans, a lot of people wouldn’t attend, so colleges wouldn’t be adding expensive features no one wanted to pay for.

[@nicolecmar5008]

This guy isn’t allowed to play video games because they are created with a “useless” art degree

[@SeverelyGlitchy]

The acronym for the organization brad is from is FEE? That seems a little on the nose for me.

[@Meganmckenzie-music]

Screaming and crying at the idea that I could be a therapist by going to community college

[@bigbazoo9794]

And even with. 4 year education therapist don’t make shit 😢

[@Vespiion]

It took me six years of college and tens of thousands in debt to become a therapist and make lower middle-class income

[@Meganmckenzie-music]

@@bigbazoo9794 In my state, we need a Masters (an extra 2-3 years) and in that program we're also required to do a 1000 hour unpaid internship - this is required by the state in order to get licensed. And it's not even just unpaid, technically it's a class, which at my school was 4 classes. So I paid to work 🙃

[@Meganmckenzie-music]

@@Vespiion I love my job so fucking much but also *screams in 100k debt*

[@p.chuckmoralesesquire3965]

the guest is living proof we need more people in college thinking critically, not less

[@Penumbralvision]

I love how he’s not against student debt relief for a particular reason… He’s like against almost any form of social programming and this is just another one of them. Kind of weird from the jump. … And seemingly just against intellectualism and education for the common person.

[@cloudshad0ws]

He's a libertarian, it ain't ever going to make sense or be consistent.

[@laertiuse]

As a college graduate and a tax payer, I love how people basically make arguments that government policy should not address issues relating to you because you are "wealthy."

[@firerunner35624]

Our current government addresses all the issues of wealthy people. The rest of us are arguing they should also address the issues that relate to the working class.

[@laertiuse]

@@firerunner35624 the Biden plan has a limit to people who make 125k or 250 for married couples. Do you really consider this people as the wealthy that the government catered too. If these people are so wealthy why are people with a degree still paying there loan in the 50 and on. My argument steam from the idea that as a taxpayer; my "wealthy" should not be the reason to not address my problem. There are millions of people with student loans. And it angers me a little when people make argument that working class people are paying for people's college degrees as if they don't pay taxes themselves. Honestly it just a way to sow division.

[@playfulpanthress]

@@firerunner35624 Current governments. Pleural. And some give handouts to those who really don't need them. If you make enough to have multiple large houses, you don't need the government giving you a tax cut. The single parent working two shitty jobs does.

[@marting5130]

an expensive education is perhaps th emost valuable type of wealth

[@theinvisiblewoman5709]

@@playfulpanthress well some state governments are stinger than others with aid to regular people, those states are also states that get the largest fraction of federal taxes sent to them every year. Americans should only fund states that give the most money in federal taxes by their logic. There goes the Midwest and south (minus Texas) I guess.

[@FirstnameLastname-kv1sp]

As someone at UMass right now, the expectation that all loans will be forgiven is bullshit. Everyone hopes their debts will be forgiven, but nobody is depending on it.

[@tkenglander6226]

You're right. The people who will have $10K or $20K of their student loans forgiven by Biden did not have the ability to see that would happen when they entered college. They did not go to school thinking some of their student loans would be forgiven; most people go into student loan debts seriously believing that they'll be able to pay them off, but then the interest hits and gets capitalized, and gets capitalized again, and then they're in trouble.

[@austinman1712]

As soon as this guy said “gender studies” “basket weaving” and “Starbucks” I knew he was bad faith… and just a conservative

[@theaviationist.5719]

Me too... The same old Right Wing / Fox News buzz words.. 🤣

[@BaronVonQuiply]

Libertarians are just extra selfish conservatives, some of whom realize that "Conservative" is not a badge of honor, so they try another word instead. One they stole from the left.

[@tkenglander6226]

Plus, I would hazard a guess that there are some people who, even in those categories, are making a good living.

[@felixbraun6919]

The minute someone unironically uses the term "basket weaving classes" in a debate about college should count as an automatic bad faith forfeit

[@wet-read]

It's so stupid. It's a straight up caricature of the point they are making, which is only partially correct anyway.

[@kurtl8660]

It’s called a euphemism 😑

[@felixbraun6919]

It's a euphemism built on a misunderstanding of social sciences and its used to attack academia. Sure there are some classes that make you question why you're taking them, but there's a larger context around the phrase

[@badmuddafadda]

@@wet-read I’ve only ever heard of one person who was actually a basket-weaver (for a short time,) Till Lindemann.

[@RatPfink66]

Take a shot every time William F. Bugeyes there says _poetry._ F**k anthro, soc, poli sci, you name it, all those people study is f**king f**gy poetry. _And!_ Gender studies! (Pay attention to the subtext: we'd be better off if sociologists, political economists, etc., had to come from wealth. Wanna guess why?)

[@virtualgambit577]

As someone going into a “high-demand” STEM field, I can say that most of us get paid pennies in comparison to how much our degree costs. I went to community college and was on scholarship, but these places will nickel and dime you any way they can. Without my parents’ financial support, I wouldn’t have been able to get my degree. I’m on the PG and Florida’s BF scholarship, but my school still cost $4k-$6k per semester (6 months) not including housing or other costs. Not everyone can afford this and have to take out loans, it really sucks because my lab’s PI is in his 30s and still in massive debt. The system needs a massive overhaul of our jobs are “in high demand” yet most of us make $60k a year working in a high-tech research lab:/

[@2FINE4YOUBABYGIRL]

That sounds like my situation and so many others I know. If not for my parents help I wouldn’t have been able to afford college. I also work in STEM and unless you work in industry a lot of researchers, scientists and analysts will only earn about 50K a year maybe less.

[@kevinholmes1048]

Truth. I tried to pay my way through an engineering degree. I saved up money from a previous career that got wiped out by a market crash my first semester and then worked two jobs to continue going. Ran out of money at the end of my sophomore year and now I have 45k in debt and no degree. Can't restart a business because of my debt. Can't get my old job back because of the time off for school. Can't get a job in the field because there's no degree. Can't pay my debt off, buy a car, buy a house, with a non-degreed job. These assholes arguing that the problem is people picking fields that aren't in demand is insane. They have no idea. So many choose to just not even put in the work and take the risk for a difficult STEM degree because of the cost. Add to that the fact most engineering schools purposely fail a majority of students just to protect the industry wages and its far from a market driven environment open to merit.

[@2FINE4YOUBABYGIRL]

@@kevinholmes1048 sounds like you did everything right and still got hit with a tremendous amount of bad luck. People don’t realize how lucky they are my brother was only able to get his engineering degree debt free because my parents used up their life savings over many decades to fund it. This is insane.

[@auggiedoggiesmommy1734]

1099 employees so no medical benefits, no PTO, and no protection as an employee. And you have to pay your own SS, Medicare and unemployment and have no disability insurance.

[@RgoochBIV]

So even if you paid back both of your semester with each years pay...your salary would then be 48k for 4 years till you pay back YOUR debt then by that the time you have 4 yrs in your field and probably have a higher salary by then with all your debt paid back an even if you had to pay for graduate school and extend that another 4 yrs your making about 50k+ each yr...cry me a river

[@MartinGorski]

Maybe I don't understand, but his argument that the market would drive people into specific careers (his example STEM) is what we have now. People still get Philosophy, History, and Library Science degrees. And we still need more STEM degree graduates....so the market isn't forcing what he thinks it will do. Additionally, he cites that college graduates typically earn more money over the course of their lifetime. As Sam states, we incentivize businesses and home owners through various debt relief/tax relief programs. Why wouldn't the government incentivize graduating college? Wouldn't that mean more tax revenue over the course of the graduates lifetime?

[@stickyfox]

We don't really *need* STEM graduates as much as they say we do. They're just big money makers because they're easily exploited. Being able to earn "middle-class" wages makes financial crises seem less urgent. We aren't a "better off class of society." We just owe more and stand to lose more if we have a health issue or lose our job.

[@rtjames]

It's an interesting point that college graduates earn more because earning more means additional tax revenue to the government in the long term. His position is essentially, 'I acknowledge I would benefit more in the long term if more people were able to get degrees but the responsibility is on those people to get the degree.'

[@stickyfox]

@@rtjames yeah, deliberately (or intentionally) short-sighted. Businesses and investors benefit *directly* from free college, because they're awash in candidates with lower costs of living, able to work for lower wages. That's why so many STEM students take advantage of free education in their home countries and then come here for two semesters to get matriculated at a school like UI or VT; and then edge out Americans who have to make $500 loan payments.

[@p.chuckmoralesesquire3965]

When I bum 10K from my wealthy parents, that's paying my own way -his logic LOL

[@HarukaJad3]

Yeah, I was fuming when he made that statement and the followed it up with sharing inter-generational wealth was a perfectly acceptable thing to consider as 'paying your own way'. I swear, these people are the delusional ones that don't live in the real world. Probably never worked a minimum wage job in their life.

[@sreamwalker24]

I'm okay with canceling all student debt if we cancel the student loan program federally and privately and shut down State money going to private universities. Divert those funds to State schools only.

[@Ciph3rzer0]

This guy just said coding is a safe job, and right after all the big tech companies laid off like 20% or more of their coders. Even as someone with experience, it's rough finding a coding job right now.

[@originalhgc]

This guy started with his moral position (don't make me pay for poets' college education) and has constructed a house of facts on that foundation. Shaky foundation, house of cards.

[@TheIcecoldorange]

Literally, his argument went from: don’t make me pay for other peoples college education >>>> you should pay for your own college education >>>>> parents can pay for college education and that counts as you paying it >>>>> take out loans to pay for college education. 😂😂😂😂😂. I can’t

[@BaronVonQuiply]

It's interesting how it's always "Why should **I** have to pay for **YOUR** [insert anything here]!?!" while they benefit from the taxes everyone around them pays and happily take any benefits or services they can find access to.

[@sing2meh]

Holy cow, this is such a great debate. I’m saving this to my playlist to reference later so I can keep learning from it. Sam always presents an excellent rebuttal argument in these conversations.

[@timjkoala7556]

Yea, Sam really is one of the best debaters in the political commentating sphere, and when it comes to libertarian arguments, he's got so much experience it's almost too easy for him

[@joshbruton4241]

You've got to be kidding... all he did was misrepresent the guys views and talk nonsense.. his rebuttals at least through the first 30 minutes have been nothing but insincere, dishonest b.s.

[@uhspagettspookedya]

@@joshbruton4241 I get it, it's hard to give up being on the Libertarian team but you realize you're not actually playing a real sport at some point.

[@itsmealex8959]

@@joshbruton4241 I wouldn't say dishonest. The first 30 minutes were kinds meh for both, but Sam picked it up afterwards for the rest of the debate.

[@isidoreaerys8745]

He’s honestly a genius the way he laterally dissects these topics

[@brucecoleman4228]

A world with no art. A world with no humanity.

[@BaronVonQuiply]

A world with no culture worth defending.

[@tkenglander6226]

But at least we'll all be able to pay for the careers we hate! LOL!!

[@RedPillGrimReaper]

Please stop strawmanning. Nobody says that we shouldn’t live without art, he’s making the argument that taxpayer should not be forced to subsidize the education of art majors. It really isn’t that difficult of a distinction to understand

[@bustamoveorelse]

I dont want to pay for your mediocre art. If you get good. People will pay 😂 Dont be salty guiiiis3

[@pixelgirl843]

Libertarians are focused on how they can make people they see as lesser work for them for peanuts.

[@ChrisARossi]

Very civil discussion! Really nice and refreshing to have informed conversations like these that don't devolve into shit throwing tantrums. Nice job Sam as always!

[@DanielCopelandMD]

I couldn't agree more!

[@gibbsm]

@@olsa6532 it can be, at a point.

[@GhostyGhost708]

Yes this was a thoroughly enjoyable video. I disagree with the guest on just about every issue probably, but he was very articulate, seemed to have at least a thought out world view, and argued in good faith in my opinion. Props to both of these guys

[@kurtl8660]

Really well deserving of respect by both, but respect was only shown by the guest to Sam and not vice versa sadly. (Specifically after guest was gone, arrogance and lack of noting fair play on nuance, concessions, civility, and consistency). But was a great watch

[@sirderpsalot]

Totally agree. Disagree completely with the invited talker's views but he is well-spoken and brought a good attitude to the show. This is definitely better than the shouting matches which the debates sometimes devolve into.

[@MrDesmondPot]

This guys entire ideology seems to be: Things that benefit me are good and things that don’t are not. Edit: at the end now. A striking lack of imagination and creativity in that libertarian’s head that has blossomed into resentment to things he cannot understand.

[@thehornetschool]

And you've defined libertarianism lol , I kick myself for buying this bull for so long

[@auntlynnie]

@@thehornetschool SAME. It’s embarrassing.

[@denisdaly1708]

ya, that is the typical libertarian. They are extreme economic conservatives, selfish...

[@livesofthefreemasons]

He's a conservative - so yes lmao

[@wvu05]

@@thehornetschool And the fact that they clearly never asked a follow-up question about their ideology in their lifetime.

[@TheJoeFactor]

"Coding jobs get six figures right out of college" HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH

[@donaldshults8957]

Yeah that had me scratching my head

[@dantearcuri3426]

I mean, they do, but only in HCOL areas like the bay area or Manhattan, where $100k a year is equivalent to around $60k a year in a MCOL area. That's still great for right out of college, but that 6 figures isn't as crazy as it sounds when you take cost of living into account

[@uhspagettspookedya]

This moment and several others were so reminiscent of the Kasparian/TYT v. Prager debate, where Dennis Prager would just _say things_ as a made up anecdote and state it as fact lol

[@donaldshults8957]

@@dantearcuri3426 I suppose that makes sense. The coders I knew worked in videogames in Dallas, and they were doing fine, but not the ballers this had me imagining.

[@philpottkentucky4802]

My neighbor's kid got $60k for a job in coding in Miami, and was told u[ front there was no room for salary increases or promotion. Also told coders basically burn out by the time they put in ten years. He didn't see any staff older than forty where he works, except for the executive officers, of course. $60k in Miami is a starvation wage.

[@brian.francisco]

Sam debating libertarians is my "cheat meal" when it comes to consuming educational political content

[@David-iv6je]

Yeah. They're usually those douchey guys who didn't grow out of it when they got past their late teens/early 20s. They found a way to justify selfishness and by Gandalf they are sticking with it.

[@xidada666]

@@David-iv6je not always though

[@David-iv6je]

@@xidada666 Very little is always. But it's a good bet. I did know a guy ~30 yo whom I liked a lot who was a Rand fan. But he was clearly autism spectrum and just didn't get interpersonal dynamics. So yeah, there are exceptions to even very safe generalizations.

[@shontose]

LEGIT! SAME!

[@shontose]

​@@David-iv6je this is kind of backwards. My 3 sons all have ASD and are more compassionate than my st people I see. They benefit greatly from the society safety nets and care deeply about people. In fact they do not understand why one wouldn't want to help another succeed if you can afford it.

[@sentry007]

Guest: "We don't need more English majors right now." Ummmm, national teacher shortage, anyone?

[@gibbsm]

and terribly written headlines for reputable news services. this future is dumb af.

[@jefft5152]

There's also a shortage of truck drivers...you know what the reason is? The pay and hours SUCK!

[@ifeoluwaadeoye6557]

Well, when you have little respect for those professions, you tend to make stupid statements like that.

[@rmac3217]

Then you become a teacher and pay off the loan... If the govt paid for fruit and the fruit industry chose the price, they would charge $10 an apple and would still sell out. The govt should have every person over 21 a student loan, they get to do what they want with it though.

[@TheScrubmuffin69]

​@Jeff T what does that have to do with student debt? I guarantee that if you look at most trucking companies, they've made record profits in the last year. Just like every company now. It's simply just greed.

[@nio804]

I think the fundamental error this guy is making is thinking that everyone *should* be motivated purely by money and that that would lead to good things. In my opinion, the best things in society have always been made by people who *didn't* care about making money, either because they didn't need to or because they sacrificed their own well-being in favour of pursuing their passion. I want a society where people by default belong in the first category.

[@utubepunk]

Exactly. Some of the best things we have is what we make to leave behind for our kids & future generations.

[@robinsss]

no he said corporations need profit to be involved

[@coopie8806]

Man he made it 54 minutes before he exposed his true beliefs about social hierarchy 😂. The people that get ahead in this world are just better than everyone, they were divinely endowed with the special skills it takes to succeed… 🤦‍♂️

[@Cancellator5000]

Pretty sure a lot of families' wealth was built on slavery, our country expanding and dispossessing indigenous people from their land, etc. People generally don't build wealth off their salaries usually their salaries are just enough to pay for things they need and maybe a bit to save for a rainy day and invest. Investment is something that our system requires, but essentially you are getting something out of other people doing work not your own inherent value and that's how most wealth is built.

[@lennoxbaumbach390]

...And that's exactly why this guy and other like him need to be purged. In addition, his current "job" is just being a paid shill for oligarchs. That makes him and his carrer less than useless for society at large and compared to the "arts" and "english-majors" he's bitching about.

[@emilianosintarias7337]

They usually are more endowed with skills its takes to succeed. The problem is those skills are not all awesome, and not all better than other skillsets for the health of society

[@jerryhickin9551]

@@emilianosintarias7337 exactly this. They are set up to succeed in a system already heavily tilted in their favor. It's the track race analogy. We're all running the 100 meter dash, but while you have to start 100 meters back at the starting line, I get to start 75 meters forward. The people that get the head start seem to more often then not believe this hype that they are the better sprinters. They don't even realize they've run a completely different race.

[@AdrianFlores-rt9ry]

Bro he just came out of nowhere with the “sorting thing”

[@ImStayGold42]

About 20 min into this & I'm dying for Sam to ask Brad if he feels like tax payers benefit from living in an educated society bc he sure doesn't seem to appreciate what it's like living around a bunch of low educated poor folks.

[@loljk9443]

I think it’s in the Libertarian’s thinking that a K-12 public education is needed to function in society. So he’s not really too openly angry about that. And feels that college isn’t a need but a want. That’s possibly why he isn’t for taxes funding college.

[@BradDaemons]

He would have probably said most people dont get educated from college

[@theinvisiblewoman5709]

I think people forget that many meaningful inventions have been done by wealthy people because they had the private education, time and money to invest in their passions. The farmer working in the field didn’t as often had the time or resources to tinker with electricity and ponder on harvesting it. It is about access and wealth is access or as a wise man once said “power coupons”

[@mrapollo13]

As someone who has a STEM degree I absolutely hate the argument that degrees in the arts are pointless. Having well studied people in the arts has a profoundly positive affect on the happiness of a society. These are the people who write the movies, books and screenplays you get entertainment from, the people who shoot and direct the films you watch and the art you hang on your wall and the people who are there to get you through the hardest times in your life. The arts have an unquestionably positive impact on society and are no less deserving of funding than the sciences are.

[@gdargan7754]

I also have a STEM degree and I couldn’t agree with you more.

[@RedPillGrimReaper]

No, I’d rather more people like you who know how to build a functioning bridge than those who would make another reboot of a movie made famous by white men with a cast comprised entirely of women of color

[@pheresy1367]

I have to say, Brad did a good job. He was a good listener and actually responded to Sam's assertions. This is the first Libertarian debating Sam that was even coherent. I enjoyed EVERY MOMENT of this. Sam has an incredible mind, like no other.

[@robwiredca]

Its too bad that they didn’t get to talk about the real reasons college tuition is rising and what to do about it. This band-aid unfortunately means another rise in tuition.

[@yashbhardwaj4026]

Yes and I find myself also wondering how rare a trait coherence is in such debates. They both made focused, well defined and precise arguments without almost any sarcastic go's or insults at each other. God, we have a lot more to learn as a society.

[@SuperWolfkin]

I absolutely LIVE for libertarian debates. I hope they never end. It's like straight crack right to the vein.

[@yourneighborhoodfriendlyme4242]

same! with Sam or Vaush on our end, it's always a guaranteed dunking for their side.

[@NotimetoVero]

@@yourneighborhoodfriendlyme4242 I’m a little tiffed with Vaushster- he’s not preparing for debates and it shows in his weak dunks. He’s objectively right, but I need more study citation kunai flinging.

[@moodycxnt]

@@NotimetoVero he spends too much time entertaining the most moronic rhetoric. Plus he's under 30 and streams basically daily. No time to get further education.

[@NotimetoVero]

@@moodycxnt it sad because it’s almost like it’s not an argument; it’s responses that we would expect from a person on the street who wasn’t expecting a question. Not an experienced rhetorician who was supposed to be prepared for a debate. I’m not expecting a Masters degree level understanding- but anticipate their “evidence” and have counter evidence for a rebuttal. And I’m telling you, Vaush is 100% on the correct side of these debates, but his retorts are essentially “Uuuhhh no.” over and over. I felt this way most recently with his anti-porn debate- there’s SO MUCH evidence on the side of Vaush’s stance, but all he could muster is whatever he came up with in the moment.

[@thewholeworldisbeautiful]

Damn, I love when Sam debates fools. 🤣🤣🤣

[@p.chuckmoralesesquire3965]

"the guy who discovered buffalo wings, you know, who put the spicy on the chicken tendies, he earned all of his money through his own hard work and merit. he deserves to be a billionaire and enslave your family" -this guy's logic LOL

[@snizami]

Love how he tries to teach him how stocks are mostly traded on the secondary markets; that the company doesn't see any of that money. Wish he pushed more. So many people do not understand that unless you're purchasing newly issued shares you're not really investing.

[@MaxRebo72]

This dude is not that far out of college and thinks he knows everything. It's ridiculous.

[@PhilosophicalZombieHunter]

Sam got cooked

[@AcornFox]

the dunning-kruger party 😂

[@SeanLaMontagne]

There is a purpose to having a society that is more educated even if it does not affect their income. College should not just be a way to increase your income, it should be a way to make all of society more well-rounded at the individual level

[@theaviationist.5719]

This is why the US has produced this generation of QANON, conspiracy theorists, Trump / election deniers. This is what comes out of focusing the population on just making money instead of also encouraging critial thinking skills. This is where higher education is very important.

[@christopherviscuso1882]

Hot take: Higher Ed. should be compulsory, public and community colleges should be completely state funded, and student loan debt should be forgiven entirely due to the failure of the existing system to provide education at a reasonable cost. The consumer should not have to bare the consequence of failed government policy.

[@SeanLaMontagne]

@@christopherviscuso1882 nah on the compulsory but if we improve k-12 it won't be necessary to be at least a bare minimum okay person

[@christopherviscuso1882]

@@SeanLaMontagne Why not compulsory? Genuinely interested?

[@SeanLaMontagne]

@@christopherviscuso1882 education as it is, functions very well for neurotypical people, and I can't imagine a worse hell for autistic people than being required to do secondary education in the way it is structured today. How could you enforce it? What penalty exists for not going to class and flanking your higher education you didn't want to attend?

[@fishingbeast1844]

This man killed me with his imaginary Buffalo wing empire story😂😂😂

[@noble7461]

He invented chicken wings, show some respect!

[@marcsullivan7987]

C’mon, the guy is an idiot, but the point is just a hypothetical: “invents “x”

[@BaronVonQuiply]

@@marcsullivan7987 We've largely passed the point that a lone genius inventor working hard in his garage comes up with a world-alerting device all by himself. If you look for "the guy that invented x", you're almost certainly going to find an entire team of trained professionals building on the work of countless others before them, over the course of years with vast resources available to them compared to the guy in the garage. Steve Wozniak did it in the 70s, but that was nearly 50 years ago (and even then he was making use of available technology he did not invent).

[@jerryhickin9551]

@@BaronVonQuiply no, that can't be true. If I accept my work largely depends on building off of discoveries and successes of others; not to mention benefits from resources society has made sure are available to me, I couldn't reasonably be a Libertarian. 😂. Oh, now I see...

[@danpsou]

I'm always befuddled by these people who think that educating artists and philosophers and teachers and thinkers is a waste of time and money to a society. In what kind of world do they want to live? It's so bizarre.

[@smokelord2002]

These are also the same people that want profit over everything and less regulation regardless if it trashes our planet. All that matters is how good THEIR life is. Everyone for themselves.

[@bradh6980]

They are the type of people who want to be lords of a shithole rather than a citizen of paradise.

[@miketaylor9623]

Pretty sure he never said that. He just said if you do you might not get paid well and have a lot a debt. I think he means really think it though. Might not be a good idea for some people that do depending on their situation.

[@kylezo]

Well, his argument was essentially that "poets aren't good anymore" because colleges "don't teach critical thinking" anymore and had a very derisive view of things like gender studies, overall trashing all non-industry related fields of study as being worthless because of some undefined reduction of quality in the subject matter (it was clear reading between the lines of his multiple comments throughout the debate that he finds gender studies, racism studies, etc totally worthless, ostensibly because "bootstraps"). Remarkable for a social scientist to have such an inability to understand his own field

[@jerryhickin9551]

@@kylezo to be fair he's a libertarian with an economics degree. He considers 18th century unfettered capitalism the epitome of societal development. Might skew his views of other things 😂

[@marcygrey570]

This guy says we shouldn’t subsidize college students because they earn a million more over their lifetime (which is a questionable stat, by the way), but at the same time we shouldn’t subsidize non-STEM degrees because they get paid garbage over their lifetime. Seems like he just doesn’t like poor people getting help.

[@clemhfandango.]

Correct! It's mainly white people from privilege backgrounds that love this economic fantasy called libertarianism. For the privilege, equality feels like oppression.

[@ivandafoe5451]

That + 1M stat is aging quickly...with so many low end jobs demanding college degrees and so many more grads looking for work...that situation will change drastically.

[@KBosch-xp2ut]

This guy: a degree earns you a million dollars more in your lifetime. Also this guy: degrees are mostly useless.

[@felixquirindongo9173]

"Some degrees." Truth matters.

[@angelasylvain2476]

Super frustrated that Sam didn’t call him out on his fallacious argument that people aren’t deciding their majors based on their career choices, but instead based on how much it costs. People don’t say “I’m going to major in art because the degree is free.” they are always making those decisions based on what careers they want to pursue.

[@playfulpanthress]

Exactly! Most people go to school to do something they love. Many of those jobs don't pay a lot. But going into a job just because it pays well doesn't mean they'll be good at it or be happy. Those are the people who commit suicide. I wish this so called libertarian wasn't such a cold-hearted empty headed loser. He might catch a clue.

[@samuelmerkel2888]

@@playfulpanthress ............That is absolutely not true. I would say you probably have an equal amount of people who go to college for what the like, and those who go purely as a future investment. Furthermore, why should you subsidize people going to college who won't come out with a good job? You're incentivizing them to live in poverty. The idea that we must fulfill the self-actuaization of each individual has as much ground as the libertarian saying that paying for something purely by yourself is the highest good. They're both purely based on personal moral frameworks.

[@jerryhickin9551]

@@samuelmerkel2888 because if we help everyone fulfill their best self actualization, we have a happier and healthier society. We shouldn't be stifling anyone's self actualization, unless it has a demonstrable harm to others. I don't want a serial killer to be the best serial killer ever, but who cares if the trans kid next door gets to be who they are. Society is better off by not stifling a trans person (or artist, musician, poet, historian, etc) as they then tend to not have the problems that arise from being absolutely miserable and depressed because you've been forced into a position in life because someone else values it more than what you love/are.

[@samuelmerkel2888]

@@jerryhickin9551 But not everyone can be what they want to be. Society does not actually have a valid interest in producing a million poets through their tax dollars. It gives nothing back. Your point still stems on a moral belief, not on efficiency or on logic. And that's fine there's no actual problem with that, but it means that it's on par then with the other moral beliefs about college

[@angelasylvain2476]

@@samuelmerkel2888 I actually don’t think it should be based on simple “what they like”. If that were the case I’d be a professional shoe shopper - LOL. However, the reality is that not all professions that are urgently needed are paid accordingly, therefore, we can’t go by just how much compensation is likely. I believe that there is a middle-ground somewhere that both appeals to the student AND fills a societal need. Sometimes that actually is an art teacher or artist. But businesses benefit from an educated community - THAT’S why we should pay to make more of them. When you say “incentivizing them to live in poverty…” I understand your point, but don’t forget that a lot of that has to do with companies underpaying vital employees. If you look at some Monster job ads these days they are looking for secretaries with 10 years of experience and a Bachelor’s degree but only want to pay them $30k. That needs to be fixed also.

[@denisdaly1708]

"Yes but there is a moral difference".. nope.. He just has personal wishes.. that is his morals.

[@ibc53-y7g]

If this guy didn't learn anything in college, that's on him. It's pretty sad.

[@BOYVIRGO666]

I always love it when Libertarians say "Theres a moral difference..." about any topic and my first answer back is "I dont care about your morals. This is government policy not morals. Morals are subjective." And they get so confused that you dont have the same mindset they do.

[@mosesesle3225]

I can’t murder someone and say hey, my morals allow this… the morale of a situation always plays a role in a society of human beings, maybe not chimps.

[@Matt-cr4vv]

You can’t genuinely discuss morals with a belief system that considers the morality to be totally self interest. The libertarian ideals cannot or will jot comprehend that sometimes you do things out of a society focusing on societal benefit over self interest alone. And it’s all a good distraction because most of them don’t deal with real life. But it’s a common mindset when you hear nothing besides mine mine mine.

[@BOYVIRGO666]

@@Matt-cr4vv True except libertarians are also all generally hypocrites even about their own political structure in that they enjoy the benefits of a society while also choosing to do everything they can to undermine it. Its not about morals or lack of morals. Its about them being idiots and hypocrites.

[@jefft5152]

@@Matt-cr4vv You're incorrect, it's not mine, mine, mine it's OURS, OURS, OURS. As in OUR country, OUR government, OUR people. The only people saying mine mine mine would be Conservative Repugnants: "This is MY Country" "This is MY flag" "The government spends MY money helping THEM." So, yes our morals are not greed, but for the good of the many.

[@razzle_dazzle]

All government policy is informed by morals. How else do you decide who to vote for, if it's not based on what you value?

[@hockeyinalabama]

I love how little he understands about software development, but he holds it up in every example.

[@xbabu142x]

As someone who has worked in software development, I have no idea what the dude is talking about. It's like I am doing a cross word to find terms involving software development lmao

[@bobroy680]

And yet you don’t comprehend why with your knowledge?

[@hockeyinalabama]

@@bobroy680 Oh, I get the point he is trying to make. He is off on his numbers and how certain education isn't enough in many cases.

[@froggystyleentertainment3434]

He's also assumed it will have high demand in 15 years, which is absurd. Everyone is just going to know how to code. It's like when I was a kid they said "Learn to Type". There was a time where being able to type fast was enough to get you a high paying job, it faded in the 2000s.

[@robertfetrow4612]

@@froggystyleentertainment3434 Well he is answering the questions Sam is asking. Sam does not have a conversation with people, he just tries to attack their points. Ever notice he never cedes any points to this guy during this conversation? He just keeps trying to critique every comment. His example that nobody actually earns their money, they only earned it because of the road that was there where they build their company. What an insane example. Everything per Sam isnt true if he didnt make the point.

[@ww-bp9el]

I'm sorry fella, I believe our culture needs more arts, social work study, a cost we should pay for as citizens, or at least help pay for, morally speaking.

[@BaronVonQuiply]

The Arts are what generates a culture worth experiencing and defending.

[@cobblegen1204]

Literally all this guy cared about was money, as though value could only refer to a number in your bank account.

[@RedPillGrimReaper]

The point you and everybody else on Sam’s side always miss is that if there really was such a high demand in society for these occupations, they would pay better and therefore helping them pay back their student loans would not be necessary

[@miranda4791]

I like that there was a little bit of time asking about how an 18-year-old supposed to know what degree is going to give them the ROI. I started college in the years just before the 2008 crash. I have many friends that were advised to “just get the degree”. It doesn’t matter if what you major in, the companies will train you… you just need the piece of paper…etc. we have parents that had history degrees but ended up in tech. It just wasn’t the same for us. Also there are a number of tech coding jobs that will be able to be automated and all those jobs are at risk of offshoring if the company feels paying the employees fairly costs them too much.

[@miranda4791]

So what happens when a barely 18 yo is given bad advice or colleges/companies sell the promise job placement after degrees but it doesn’t pan out? Economic and job environments and demands change. Additionally there’s been numerous for profit colleges sued and loans forgiven for selling outcomes they couldn’t deliver. Didn’t Columbia University just get caught fudging its stats to improve its ranking?

[@jeffc5974]

I got my degree in electrical engineering, hoping to go into tech, but the year I graduated is the year the tech bubble burst. There is no way to know what the market is going to do four years (or more) from now. If anyone could (much less an 18 year old), they wouldn't need to go to college at all.

[@MilesOfosu]

You’re not taking any personal responsibility for the degree you chose. You may have been advised one way or another but you took the choice to take out these loans. Not the taxpayer. There has to be some personal accountability for your own actions

[@UberTheRandom]

@@MilesOfosu The loans are predatory and include compounding interest. The lending companies are the ones that made an irresponsible decision lending tens or hundred of thousands to kids just barely out of HS with no real plans for their future. Sounds like they need to take some personal accountability for their actions. Fck corporations and banks and fck the idjits that simp for them.

[@erinmarieee23]

My mom got her bachelors degree in history and then got a job as a paralegal😂 your comment rings very true!

[@tigerfight85]

My mom was a software engineer and a technical writer. She graduated from SF State with a BA in South Asian Art. She was hired solely bc she had a college degree which demonstrated to her employer that she was capable of learning on the job. I always tell people that, for the most part, it doesn’t matter what they study, bc they’re going to learn most of the same overall skills: working in a team, leading a team, writing, following deadlines, completing projects, public speaking, extracting pertinent info from large amounts of info, and critical thinking.

[@montecristo1845]

SFSU alumnus here! 😎 ✌️👨🏼‍🎓

[@ShinmaWa1]

@@edmonddantes1761 - Absolutely disagree and I have a hardcore case to prove it: IBM. IBM *routinely* hires developers who have degrees that have nothing to do with software development, computer science, or engineering... and have for DECADES. Their philosophy is simple: "We can teach you how to code. We just need to know that you are capable and willing to learn"

[@BOYVIRGO666]

@@ShinmaWa1 Do you work in IBM HR? because I have coworkers who used to work in IBM and i can tell you that aint true in most cases.

[@steviegbcool]

i always thought that was a waste to study something you don't pursue

[@steviegbcool]

@@ShinmaWa1 training cost time and money.

[@SteveGellerMusic]

He gave the whole game away when he said that there was nothing wrong with people using their parents' money and their inherited money, i.e., money literally handed to them for doing nothing but being born to the correct family, but that it was immoral for other people to take taxpayer money. He really is saying "rich people should be able to do anything they want, even if they got rich by accident of birth exclusively, while poor people should get a lesser education because this is most convenient to society. BTW, what does he think perpetuates generational wealth if not "the already-richest people getting the biggest advantages at every step"? And what does he think "doing more to help solve the generational wealth issue" means if not giving additional foundational help to the non-wealthy? Also, who blew up the economy in 2008 and cost us 8 trillion dollars in wealth? The rich or the poor? If our system is so much better served by a system that doesn't redistribute wealth downward, why have we slumped to the middle of the pack (or lower) in every category among 1st World Nations while the rich continue getting endless tax breaks?

[@Fabric_Hater]

Only fascists support inheritance tax.

[@Dragonette666]

those rich people and their libertarian lackies would be the first to say "life isn't fair" so when your taxes are higher and you pay in more it's the same thing - life isn't fair.

[@Fabric_Hater]

@@Dragonette666 they wouldn't advocate for taxation. Good job, you've proven you literally don't know what you're talking about.

[@darwinism8181]

@@Fabric_Hater No, they're just turning a dumb 'life isn't fair' argument around on libertarians. Libertarians want to avoid taxes because they think taxes are 'unfair' but also tend to be extremely quick to point out how unfair life is as a justification for why their worldview will fuck people over if it ever comes into being. Basically libertarians are the personification of "things I like are good, things I dislike are bad, now let me think of a bunch of ways to dance around saying that so it's not immediately apparent that I'm just that shallow"

[@WestLightz]

@@Fabric_Hater Nah you just misunderstood what he said. He's saying to tell them ( rich people and their libertarian lackeys) "life isn't fair" when they complain about higher taxes for the wealthy(progressive tax). Seems pretty obvious he was pointing out that libertarians favorite catch phrases are just dumb platitudes that could just as easily be turned on them. Nice try on the smug gotcha though.

[@chaunceysnodgress3672]

LOL! 35:05 Brad validates Sam’s argument. When students don’t have to pay for college, they’ll pursue and study their interests.

[@simplicitylost]

10:25 And that’s why I encourage all parents going forward to not tell the lie told to us “you can be whatever you want when you grow up,” and instead say “you can be whatever the market needs you to be.”

[@tkenglander6226]

LOL!! Perfect!

[@nataliekhanyola5669]

🤣🤣😂😂

[@rhettgreenfield4549]

@simplicitylost This is essentially what I was getting at with my own comment above. His entire outlook relies upon the unquestioning acceptance of this idea. The entire discussion could have been deepened by responding to his statements about the "morality" of property redistribution by showing how he implicitly identifies morality with market incentives and his conception of what those incentives are, as opposed to a framework which identifies morality with subordinating market incentives to genuine human or social needs. His conceptions rely upon a tacit identification of "morality" with his own class interests, as well as the way his personal identity is bound up in the dogmas of bourgeois economics and his absorption of those dogmas during his own college education.

[@sampats89]

If the free market was a real thing, then nurses and labourers wouldn't need to unionise and strike for fair pay. But conservatives are immoral and dishonest. They just want to make excuses as to why they personally have the right to live better lives

[@Blake_.Dryden]

I was raised by a bipolar, single mother with alcohol and opiate addiction disorders whose arrested development meant I became the de facto parent to my younger two siblings around the age of 10. I had a full-time job that paid under the table and no time for school at 15. I didn’t appreciate the value of an education. I’ve always learned life’s most important lessons a little later than I would’ve chosen. The year I turned 20 I realized she had destroyed my credit and I owed over $30K to credit card and utility companies. In order for this dude to call himself a Libertarian and live selfishly, there has to be a me with a boot on their neck.

[@PrivateDncr86]

I'm sorry that happened to you, hon😢

[@Blake_.Dryden]

@@PrivateDncr86 I have no idea if yours was an earnest comment or not but I'm going to assume it was and say thank you. I overshared a good bit here, huh? 😂

[@Blake_.Dryden]

@@Techlax43 I don't need to explain *shit* to you or anyone else. I hope you felt very powerful when you landed on such a witty and original nickname for me. Thinking you had enough insight into my life from a KZbin comment to tell me what an appropriate course of action would've been is precious. God bless you

[@KD-ou2np]

I wouldn't wish for you to have to deal with this sniveling weasel but I really want to know wtf he could possibly say in response to your story with coming off like a callous entitled douchbag. Edit: I guess he would have been like "bro why didn't you just get a private loan"

[@KD-ou2np]

​@@Techlax43wow I bet you're a wonderful person full of joy

[@xiamengbaby]

According to this librarian, college graduates make a million dollars more over their life times. Wouldn't be one of the best investments by the government to pay for college then? The income taxes on an extra million dollars would pay the tuition many times over.

[@amymadden4631]

Chad thinks him keeping his own money through mortgage tax deduction is different than people keeping their own money through not having to pay usurious student loans.

[@sheepwshotguns42]

Great debate. I just don't see why we can't view higher education as labor. To get your master degree isn't easy, and it can be a great boon to society. It makes sense that society should pay people pursuing higher education. Another point. People generally excel at subjects for which they have a passion. How many passions are being snuffed out by barriers of entry? How many Einstein's of art, of medicine, of any field, is the world missing out on because we have to wait for the top one percent to fill that roll?

[@ivandafoe5451]

Excellent point.

[@dodgingcars]

Also, an educated population is good for both society and our place in the global economy. It's literally an investment into our own country.

[@simo3873]

Our society is so selfish and myopic, no one seems to realize that improving the lives of those around you improves your life as well.

[@BaronVonQuiply]

I think that logically, if I'm going to be a chemist making Oxycodone for Purdue pharma.. they're making a ton of money off my work. Why should I have to pay for the skills required to make someone else billions when they can easily afford it and they need chemists more than chemists need Purdue?

[@theinvisiblewoman5709]

That’s that rugged individualism the propagandized have fallen for. They forget we can have more if we throw in some collectivism every once in a while.

[@sentry007]

Did this guy just graduate from college? He doesn't understand that most current investors don't grow businesses in healthy long- term ways that benefit the workers, but only to support short- term gains to benefit themselves?

[@sentry007]

Really feels like this guy just graduated. Which college you went to is only important to your first long- term job.

[@francisd7081]

This guy lives in fantasy land. As a software engineer, it’s exciting to see more people enter the field. However, with thousands and thousands of new engineers entering the job market, this drives wages DOWN, not up. So it’s not good for our bottom line

[@kylezo]

He actually acknowledged that about 2 sentences later but failed to verbalize how that completely contradicts the conclusion he stated just prior lmao it's like a hamster running on a hamster wheel

[@chuckles1298]

It seems to me from what Brad keeps saying is that he grew up in a wealthy family and certainly not from the working class. He's bourgeois!

[@jooddart9736]

He reminds me of Patrick Bateman

[@SoftBoiledArt]

@@jooddart9736 He probably wishes he could be like that, murders included.

[@jeffreywillstewart]

First off his college job was a security guard. So he must be tall, which is a societal advantage, to get that cushy job where he could probably study while being paid. Another alpha male annoyed anytime we try to even the playing field.

[@caitieeeee]

Totally this guy comes from a wealthy family.

[@timjkoala7556]

@@jeffreywillstewart Maybe our definitions differ but I definitely wouldn't classify this guy as an alpha male hahaha

[@diegodesantiagodelfin7940]

"what I don't like is immmoral, but what I like is moral" Libertarian logic

[@elisawhitman8526]

Yes!! 🎉 So true. I swear, I was just writing that a few minutes ago, but then I got distracted, because my husband asked me a question and I had to pause the video.

[@itsmealex8959]

Funny, I prefer immoral to moral.

[@yuhyuh2729]

Hm, didn’t know morals were objective ! You seem pretty smart!

[@TheColdFrontmusic]

wasn't sure where this was going for the first 20 minutes, but after pink shirt said "pay your own way in life" followed by how inheritance wealth counts as one paying their own way, his argument seemed a lot more frail

[@ihsahnakerfeldt9280]

Yep. Arbitrary positions with tons of special pleading. This is a constant theme in libertarian thought.

[@JPH1138]

"If we had that policy we never would have gotten Jeff Bezos!" What an endorsement.

[@anthonydelfino6171]

I heard that and thought "so.... what's the downside?"

[@TheJesselopez1981]

As if someone else wouldn't have thought of mail order catalogs but on the internet. And he took full advantage of two existing infrastructures, the internet and the US postal service, to make his billions.

[@garysmokesmeat]

But everyone loves bezos and Amazon. The fact that all the Starbucks socialist shop and work there is proof.

[@garysmokesmeat]

@@TheJesselopez1981 have you seen all the fedex trucks and Amazon trucks running around? Pretty sure that’s not the post office.

[@TheJesselopez1981]

@@garysmokesmeat yeah but Amazon delivery has only been around a few years. At the start they mainly used the post office. I dont know why you brought up FedEx because they existed before Amazon as well. Now Amazon ships 72% of their packages but as late as 2019 they were only shipping 46%.

[@exploderwrestlingpodcast2721]

"My gym teacher should have...." And that's where I stopped giving two shits what he thinks. I went to a commuter branch of a state school, lived at home, had a job, STILL have student loan debt. So I "should have" what exactly? Because in his scenario, the answer would be "don't go to college". You know, like my parents...and my grandparents...and my great grandparents....

[@cloudshad0ws]

You should have had rich parents. That's his point.

[@auggiedoggiesmommy1734]

Jesus.. This kid has had everything handed to him. And …. OPPORTUNITY to develop those relationships.

[@noble7461]

This guy is evidence that success in capitalism is based on aesthetics.

[@theaviationist.5719]

The guy said he got a scholarship.. But doeshe think that we all have /had an opportunity to /luck to be granted a scholorship?

[@fayeb.5855]

The cost of our public universities has skyrocketed because we put less money into state regents to fund the schools. When I graduated from a state university in 1980, the cost was so low. I even took an extra year because I changed my major multiple times. I took out loans. I paid them off in my 20’s and I was not making a big salary. It’s horrendous now for our college age who want to study at a public university in their state finding the cost obscenely high.

[@LinusE]

as a teacher student and as someone who is very involved with Sweden's privatized school sector, I get very worried when economists start talking about what schools should do and how they should it

[@moneystrb22]

This kid is so insufferable and privileged that even his eyes are running away from him.

[@matthewpopp1054]

7:46 he mentions that he is okay with k-12 education but not college because your an adult. So in other worlds, if we change our definition of adult from 21 to now 24 then he would be okay with k-16?.?.?

[@BaronVonQuiply]

I'm reminded of when Biden said we should cover K-14, and all the Republicans I know chose to pretend to interpret it as adding two more years to high school, rather than covering an Associates Degree. I just hit the point where he says he doesn't want public school to expand to cover two more years, I wonder if he's aware kids used to graduate in the 6th grade because there weren't any more after that, and when there were.. work was considered more pressing.

[@punklyrics1]

Literally the one thing holding me back from getting my degree in electromechanical engineering is that i cant afford to pursue it

[@jefft5152]

​@@MF-oh2qo The problem is, as mentioned in the video, college education costs as much as/more than a house now (more than 3x's inflation). Also, you can work for 5 years now and still be paycheck to paycheck.

[@jefft5152]

@@MF-oh2qo The average cost of attendance for a student living on campus at a public 4-year in-state institution is $25,707 per year or $102,828 over 4 years.Apr 3, 2023 -Google you're welcome 😁 Now Google homes under 100k. There are even some in CA!

[@jefft5152]

@@MF-oh2qo That's a lie! How many state schools are 20 minutes from every person! The nearest ones to me are both 45 or more minutes away based on traffic. Shame on you for that assumption.

[@jefft5152]

@@MF-oh2qo You were able to buy a house in 5 years? Based on payments of what? Amortization calculator has a 100k doublewide at 2140 per month JUST the house payment over 5 years (not including insurance or anything else) I don't understand how you could've afforded that.

[@jefft5152]

@@MF-oh2qo 45 minutes to an hour away based on traffic will inhibit your ability to even get there. Turns an 8 hour day to 10 hours then homework too.

[@Krebssssssss]

His arguments were more cogent and coherent than I’ve heard any other libertarian make up to this point (no, that’s not saying much). He was very respectful, and I like seeing these honest, civil debates of ideas with people who are capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time. We need to do more of this as a country. It’s okay to disagree about tax policy and levels of regulation. THAT’S politics. Healthcare, racism, and what conservatives have done to pollute our body politic is not what politics has traditionally been.

[@addylenwest8536]

I mean sure he’s a little more intelligent but his ethics are an absolute mess, in the first ten minutes he’s literally just saying we should force people to be stem majors because it’s what the market wants, complete ghoul in human skin

[@Nattydaddy4ever]

@@addylenwest8536 yeah he’s just disgusting! No clue of the human condition!

[@tunelowplayslow5623]

While he talked shit on any and all forms of the arts. Kid thinks he's sly bringing up basket weaving and poetry degrees like it's san francisco in the 1960s. Just another angry conservative in training.

[@majorlazor5058]

Yeah… he is a libertarian who is self aware his ideology is based purely on a belief he will remain at the top of food chain, that he was born into, and he could care less about everyone else beneath him. It’s the middle class and poor libertarians that are delusional and think they would survive in an anarchist 100% free market hellscape

[@CoolDrifty]

yeah, i liked that he was consistent in his points at least. he definitely articulated the core of the anti-tax lib right view, which was the main reason I enjoyed this debate so much

[@chuckles1298]

He believes in the caste system.

[@theaviationist.5719]

Aristocracy...

[@andrewsadler5418]

Social worker here. The minimum requirement for me to practice is a mastere degree. Luckily I did the bachelor's of SW route that took off a year of masters. Regardless I still graduated with 70k in debt, going to a state school at that. The masters alone added enormous amounts of debt. I would have probably been closer to 50k if I didn't take my last semester off from work, but I was too close to burning out from double full-time, plus internship. The average starting salary for a SW is 45k, maybe closer to 50 depending on the state. In NYC it was 60k for medical SW but then you have the cost of living in NYC to contend with. SW have to invest way too much to begin practicing, and trust me when I say you need more of them. If you don't believe me, go volunteer for a mental health or suicide hotlines

[@Idontknowwhatswaitingforme]

Brad told me that social work is a hobby for rich people, not something society should invest in.

[@andrewsadler5418]

@@Idontknowwhatswaitingforme sounds like Brad needs to work in the mental health field

[@felixquirindongo9173]

That's exactly why you should pay for a debt that you took voluntarily in a field that doesn't have a competent ROI.

[@andrewsadler5418]

@@felixquirindongo9173 I think you miss the point. I'll be fine in the long run, even in the short run. The point is that the cost is far too high for those who wish to enter into social science fields. There is a huge need for it, many organizations are understaffed and overbooked. You would think demand would drive pay up but that hasn't been the case. Imo colleges need sweeping regulations or restructuring more than anything else.

[@andrewsadler5418]

@@Velvet.323 I worked NYCWell crisis hotline for a year. Most of the callers provided plenty of validation and thanks. If not for lack of clinical hours I'd still be doing it

[@BeauSeverson]

Somehow it doesn't surprise me that a guy who looks like this is saying that college should only be an investment in a career and not a higher education and exchange of ideas available to all the US citizens. If the US wants a more educated and powerful workforce full of new ideas they need to start investing our tax money back into the citizens ability to learn concepts, even if they aren't directly helpful because in the future we don't want to simply push out AI as a replacement for everything without people understanding how this will affect our entire socio-economic system. A concept far above the ability to just do something taught at a vocational school.

[@wirelesmike73]

I love these debates. The more you force them to expose themselves for the ignorant, hypocritical, unempathetic, craven jerks they are by making them explain it in excruciating detail, over and over again, the more likely one of them, or one of their listeners are going to have that "ah-ha" moment and realize how bull-headed and horrible they've been. Keep it up, Sam. I'm glad that someone like you actually enjoys it. I love seeing it, and I'll watch every one I see posted.👁👁🍿

[@joshbruton4241]

All I saw was Seder purposefully misrepresenting the guys argument.. "I don't think college is the only way to learn, and it should be your choice to pay for it" seder- "so you're saying higher education is worthless". Sam seder is a smug, dishonest, liar.

[@joshuaray4215]

You’re the only drone reading from a script 🤡😂

[@wirelesmike73]

@@joshuaray4215 Tell yourself whatever you want. I really don't give a shit what you think.

[@tayoroa]

Thank you for this. I truly appreciated this intelligent and reasonably respectful debate. While you clearly didn't agree with each other, you kept it civil and very lively. Great to watch!

[@Blueburrysoop]

So poor people should only be educated in their labor of choice and rich people can not only hoard wealth but also be the keepers of all the knowledge

[@keapitreal]

This was very enjoyable. His core principles are not realistic, though he made like one or two decent points when they got in the weeds. But what a breath of fresh air to not have someone freaking out and reading from their script, only to become frustrated when Sam wants to interject. “Oh 10% Sam, we’ll thank you for that! You’re very kind” “You’re welcome! I think I may even go up to 11%” All smiles and fun, yet maintaining their slight smugness toward each other for the sake of the argument. Bring this guy back on!

[@jnanashakti6036]

I'm floored by his ability to "yeah, yeah" off points that slay his viewpoint to bits.

[@chronographer]

Nothing sam said remotely came close to addressing any of this viewpoint.

[@asfclayton698]

@@chronographer yea it was all strawmans. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@Lpfend714]

My first time watching Sam and I thought he got destroyed

[@Lpfend714]

Sam should invest in the Hay industry with all the straw men he builds.

[@KZ-xt4hl]

the replies to OP are coping so hard

[@bigbywolf6046]

We are lucky to have people like Sam defending us from these absolute lunatics that have no clue about the real world

[@SollieWalker1906]

I disagree BJG would have knocked this bozo out like 90s Mike Tyson.

[@BaronVonQuiply]

@@SollieWalker1906 k

[@suunyata13]

Programmers are getting paid less than 6 figures out of school, and coding jobs are 100% being offshored

[@MySqueezingArm]

I dropped out of college because I was afraid of debt when I was younger. I feel no resentment for kids now that are getting a small relief.

[@bananian]

So psychotic to want others to fail because you don't want them having it better than you.