Same Bike. Different Wheels. (Watch This BEFORE Converting Your Bike)

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Yes. I did some English major math. Total drop of the bike between the two tires is .5 inches.

[@TamBikeOnHotToo]

I'm planning to put a 29er to my front and a 27.5 on my rear, a mullet build but I ended up with 29er wheelset on my gravel bike 🚲 I would love to put chunckier tires but my frame is only 27.5, but my front rigid carbon fork can accomodate upto 29x2.3 As of today my wheelset is 29x1.95 clearance is so little in the rear. Hoping to put wider tire in my next upgrade 🦋💯✅

[@claudiovecchiatto3260]

I was gonna say. Whatever the diameter difference must be split in two for bb height considerations. When comparing comfort between 700c and 650b you should appoint tire pressures as well. To have the same level of speed/rolling resistance the smaller tire must be inflated at higher pressure you would normally use, decreasing its level of comfort. Understand that rolling resistance and speed are not the main things in life but it should be explained to be fair. Also longer spokes give more compliance as you know smaller wheels are stiffer. Apart of that I appreciate your review and I can still see the point of a 650b wheelset for better toe clearance and extra stability even if this comes with a sharper front end. By the way I can't wait to try some nice and chunky 26x2.4 tires myself (apparently they are very close in diameter to a 700 x 32). Greetings from the UK

[@pgn666]

@@TamBikeOnHotToo 29x1.95 === 50x700c, yes 29 and 700c is THE SAME RIM SIZE. just MTB tyres makes the wheel 29 inch instead of 28 inch :)

[@MartyMcFlyPDX]

I think people should use whichever wheel set has tanwalls above all else

[@geoffersmaher]

This

[@captainLoknar]

in other words gravelkings lol I use continental because I'm a rebel can't stand everyone telling me to get camelback this and gravelking that and SRAM this.

[@kaedeschulz5422]

@@captainLoknar Sram.. yea... I also don't like Sram... But i like RockShox. They were a thing before they were part of Sram right?

[@salmanshami]

True. Rene Herse is the best choice possible.

[@jasonrichardwatts]

Agreed! 😂

[@lightningslim]

As a child of the 1950's (I am 66) I find your channel, and your approach to cycling VERY informative, and an enjoyable watch to boot! (Do people still use that form of language? 🙂) Having been a child cyclist and fun cyclist until I was 40, when I was diagnosed with cancer, I expected never expected to ride again, what with weight gain and ill health. Happily, after 20 years of illness my health has improved and I have started to ride for fun again! I ride a 2001 Marin San Anselmo Hybrid frame that I bought for chicken feed from ebay and built up myself. I'm not bothered about competition, I just enjoy the ride. So your perspective is ideal for my type of cycling, even though I couldn't afford the lovely bikes that you get to try out! Keep up the good work!

[@caperider1160]

Wish you all the health and stamina to pedal through everything coming on your way!!

[@keys-bw9bc]

As a child of the 60's as well as a cancer survivor keep peddling. I have been Light touring and bikepacking since the late 70's and still actively ride my 79 trek 710. The one thing I learned from this video is how little I understand about current cycling nomenclature. Anybody have a translation app or dictionary?

[@spotsill]

Glad to hear you are feeling much better now . I did not ride for a couple years over eye issues but thanks to eye surgeries i’am riding again and enjoying every minute.

[@RideYearRound]

I actually love being able to put different wheel/tire sizes on the same bike. I think it's an especially good thing if you can't afford or don't have the space for multiple bikes. Like you said, as long as you keep the overall diameter pretty close it keeps bb height and other aspects similar to design but can change the capabilities/behavior of the bike. I run a 29+ wheelset on my Ice Cream Truck in the Spring/Summer/Fall and use the 26x4.8s in the winter and it works great because they're pretty close in diameter but I get a totally different ride feel.

[@captainLoknar]

is it easy to remove the cassette? I don't think so

[@TheWaffleRadio]

@@captainLoknar Who said remove the cassette? If you're looking for a quick swap, you would have another cassette on the alternate wheelset. Could even be a different gearing to further differentiate the purpose behind the wheelsets. Obvs would need to confirm deraileur/cassette compatibility. Is it more expensive? Yes, but less than a second bike.

[@ThePlasticJedi]

@@captainLoknar It is pretty easy, the tools cost maybe 40 bucks altogether. I went this route rather than ponying up for two cassettes.

[@josephloftusmedia]

Russ over here asking the internet to take off their judgment hats 🤣

[@kevinoneill2170]

🤣 "Have you MET the internet?!?!"

[@FrankMOrtiz]

Good luck with that.

[@timoflynn2531]

Nice vid mate, thank you. I just did the conversion. My Cannondale is offered with both 700c or 650b wheels so I'm guessing the geometry is ok for either. When I was buying the bike I wanted the 650s but they were unavailable in the UK. Over the past year I have been satisfied with the 700s for road riding and some gravel tracks. I put 35s on them. But I kept slightly regretting that I couldn't get the 650s with the bike. So a month ago I ordered some (rather beautiful) Hope rims and hubs in 650 size with 42 tyres. What a transformation! I went back in to my LBS and told them it was like riding a hovercraft. The bike glides over the gravel tracks I had previously found jarring. I had put a Redshift flexible stem on a few months ago and that certainly helps (I would recommend it to anyone). But it felt like it hadn't really had an opportunity to shine until I put the 650s on. It is all very subjective, as you point out, but for me, if you want the freedom to really explore gravel and off road you can't beat the combination of 650s and a Redshift stem. Incidentally, I really haven't noticed a decrease in speed either. In fact, I think I'm a bit faster even on the road probably because I'm so much more comfortable.

[@olkenn]

Same here except went from 700x42 to 650bx53, I love it! So much more fun and nimble and comfortable

[@truballr32]

Hey I have 26” wheels with 28 inch and some change tires 35c I believe but the Frame comes to close to my crotch. There is no space in the stand over position. I was thinking smaller wheels and slightly thicker tires because the ride is still a little hard. So that would check off two of my wants, softer ride and lower bicycle height but I’m worried about my pedals scraping. Is 700c smaller wheel than 26”? How are the 650b’s on the road ? I want a cushier ride but want to still be able to ride fast on the streets

[@zurielsss]

Good for you mate. Curious if body height matters, I am 1.7m smaller guy and not sure if I should go for 650b or standard 700. Do you mind sharing what is your height ?

[@edbee8508]

I'm loving this convergence towards SI measures.

[@mavirek]

Finally: someone who could tell me the difference between these tires. Thank you.

[@ianmagnuson1626]

Pedal strike is something I talk about ALL THE TIME but I rarely hear any discussion about it in relation to 700c/650b wheel conversions. I have a Soma Wolverine (a frame built for high volume 700c tires) that I threw 650bx47s on. On my first turn out the door, I clipped my pedal on the concrete and almost flipped my bike. I got used to it over the two years I rode it like that, but after buying a Bombora for 650b goodness, the Wolverine is riding high on 700x50s. I see 650b as a great wheel size that can cut down on weight (usually) but running them on a bike meant for 700c will drop your bottom bracket. It can change your “do anything bike” to a “clip everything bike” if you aren’t careful.

[@andrewnorris5415]

My new Sliex is designed for both wheel sizes and big clearance so I am hoping that will be less of an issue. I have bought some crank protectors just in case. Can always fit shorter cranks I guess which helps the knees I hear?

[@Nicoya]

Technical detail: the larger wheel gives a slightly higher axle which results in an extended trail number (the triangle formed by the ground, a vertical line through the contact patch/axle and the axis line of the head tube becomes larger, the base of which is the trail). It's this larger trail that results in the more stable, slower handling you're feeling, and it's unlikely that gyroscopic effects are at play. If you put a smaller tire on the 700 or a larger tire on the 650 such that they had the same overall diameter, the difference in handling would essentially disappear, even though the 650 wheel+tire combo would be heavier (due to having much more rubber on it).

[@cybercrytmaster]

Number one thing between the 2 for me is the gear inches , You'll get less gear inches with the 650B so less effort , 650B for Gravel and 700c for the street.

[@truballr32]

Hey I have 26” wheels with 28 inch and some change tires 35c I believe but the Frame comes to close to my crotch. There is no space in the stand over position. I was thinking smaller wheels and slightly thicker tires because the ride is still a little hard. So that would check off two of my wants, softer ride and lower bicycle height but I’m worried about my pedals scraping. Is 700c smaller wheel than 26”?

[@Nicoya]

@@truballr32 26 inch is much smaller than 700c. It sounds to me like you need a smaller frame.

[@truballr32]

@@Nicoya I actually have 700c wheels smh I just realized that thank you. I want to get 650b or 26” rims

[@Nicoya]

@@truballr32 Moving to 650b/27.5 would probably be ok, but if you go too small on the wheels then the pedals will end up too low and they'll scrape the ground too easily. Also 26 isn't great these days because there's a lot less tire choice.

[@travissennett1026]

Hey, I just want to say that I really dig your videos and appreciate your style. I've been riding bikes all my life, most avidly BMX between age 12 and 24. I'm 35 now, and it's been years since riding any bike regularly. I started commuting 30miles per day and having never been a road/gravel bike rider previously, I had/have a lot to learn. Your channel has been very helpful and enjoyable. Thank you! Keep it up. I know this video is a year and a half old, just happened to be the one I decided to express my appreciation for.

[@lelca]

Really appreciate you calling out the industry for touting multi-wheel size capabilities of many bikes. Too often does it seem like a marketing ploy to cash in on a trend, rather than actually being a design decision to improve the bike across the range of sizes and use cases. On the flipside, I'm stoked seeing the increase in wheel size (and fork rake) diversity across the size range from many brands!

[@rumenripe]

came here for that mili moment of lighting up the party pace

[@rumenripe]

@@navysealblackwater oh yeah! its up and crashed on gravel

[@jamessullivan844]

I have a Specialized Diverge Base E5 (52 cm) that came with 700c wheels with 35 mm tires. I got some 650b wheels with 47mm Maxxis tires. I don't know about the technical stuff but riding with the 650bs is a whole bunch of fun. Very surefooted on the rough stuff but rolls surprisingly well. No troubles keeping up with folks on 700c with mid-30mm tires. As Russ said, I think the switch to 650b works well with smaller frame sizes.

[@LachlanHS]

You've nailed it. Toe overlap was the biggest thing for me, particularly with mudguards (fenders). I ride a Surly Midnight Special in a slightly small 54cm frame for me (based on preference). With mudguards on 700x38c i had lots of toe overlap issues - not enough that I didn't love riding the bike but since going to 650x47c with mudguards (velo orange) WOW. What a difference. The bike is so much less annoying. This leaves aside all of the other things I've noticed in terms of stability, plush ride etc etc that are much more subjective.

[@Rkidd21]

Literally same issue with the Midnight special in 58cm - Picked up some 650b after about 500mi or so on the 700c.... so much more confidence in the ride now.

[@mdgdm]

I have a 2011 Salsa Vaya that was designed for 700c. I had always used 700x37 tires with fenders. For more air volume I built up a set of 650b x 48 wheels. It changed the handling as Russ described, except I didn’t like it. On the smaller wheels it felt like it was diving into turns with a mind of its own. I felt I couldn’t ride as straight a line since any little deviation from straight got amplified. I put a couple thousand miles on them, but every time I reverted to the 700c wheels it just felt so much easier to ride. So I sold the 650b’s. Russ, perhaps the effect wasn’t as strong on your test bike if it was designed as a compromise between the two wheel sizes.

[@87Rasser]

I noticed once that a wide mtb 650B (or 27,5") tire was actually larger in diameter than a skinny road 700C tire. So it is not necessarily going to change the pedal hight if you find tires that has the same diameter in the two respective wheelsizes. Some bike brands also sell the idea of 650B wheels as wheels that have the same diameter as 700C, so same handling but with thicker tires for better grip offroad.

[@kristian.madsen]

The WTB "Road Plus" 47 mm tires are designed to give the same wheel diameter on 650b as a 700cx30 tire setup. That's how my Renegade rolls: one wheelset for gravel, one for road. Also, I don't have to swap tires all the time :)

[@truballr32]

Hey I have 26” wheels with 28 inch and some change tires 35c I believe but the Frame comes to close to my crotch. There is no space in the stand over position. I was thinking smaller wheels and slightly thicker tires because the ride is still a little hard. So that would check off two of my wants, softer ride and lower bicycle height but I’m worried about my pedals scraping. Is 700c smaller wheel than 26”?

[@87Rasser]

@@truballr32 No. 700c wheel is bigger than 26"

[@truballr32]

@@87Rasser yes I realized that after a few more videos lol I had it wrong thank you for the correction. I actually have 700c now and I want to size down to the 650b or 26”

[@theadventurebiker]

Great info, Russ! +1 for tire choice being more important and having a greater effect than wheel size!!!! I still ride 26" wheels with 47mm tires..... 😂😂😂👍

[@vermonthillsumc]

You make so many good points in this video! You have clearly thought about this a lot :) Thank you for your passion and insight.

[@felixjackson2670]

Am 6ft. 78 kg. Done lots of road and mtb over many years. Built my first gravel bike 2 years ago. Run 650x47 WTB byways and feels brilliant. Similar ride to my road bike,just obviously slower but great on and off road..perfect for Donegals back roads and forestry. Fitted 700x43 for a while..just not as responsive,no faster and went back to my 650’s.

[@Armin_27]

Cool, that´s interesting!

[@larrytucker3860]

I love your channel. I always appreciate your well thought out and presented discussions about equipment & bicycles. This comparison between wheel sizes and tires is certainly one of the best I have ever heard. Thank you.

[@maxredburn6610]

Great discussion, russ! We must respect the wheel, no matter its size

[@petercroce]

is your profile picture Zak Maytum at Maryhill circa 2009???

[@christiansoleta7556]

I run 650b on my Jamis Renegade but also enjoy throwing on the 700c wheels occasionally. It's like riding a different bike which is always a good thing

[@Daniel-yf9iy]

I just did my first century and ran 650bs with Maxis Receptors. Very comfortable and not overly slow.

[@vincentfeitsma]

True words my friend. A word on "suspension". It's not only the air that gives suspension, it's the combination of having a lower pressure and having more sidewall to absorb impacts. Especially noticable with smaller impacts, of which there are generally more of on a give road/gravel surface.

[@tomordr]

One characteristic (or property) among many. True words. I recently shortened my road bike stem 30mm while raising it about 20mm. My back and arms were always hurting but once changed the difference was life changing! Complete comfort on long group rides. But on the fast downhills some people would catch and pass me. A few were getting on me about lost aerodynamics but I just replied that I enjoyed the entire ride and would not sacrifice all ride comfort to gain 20 seconds on the downhill. Besides, 37mph was good enough for me.

[@vincentsanoria2306]

how about the handling? is it twitchy?

[@tomordr]

@@vincentsanoria2306 Not at all. Same stable at any speed handling as it always had. Even after time has passed I’m still very happy with this change. Good luck in whatever you decide

[@michaelhotten752]

have ridden both an Open U.P. and my current bike -- a Twin Six Rando 2.0 -- with both wheel sizes. loved being able to go back and forth. and when I do so, I just log the wheel size in the back of my mind so when the deficiencies of having one wheel size or the other comes up, I hopefully remember to: (650b) watch out for pedal strike or (700c) watch the toes in that tight corner. it's all part of the fun of experimentation. that said, if engineers and designers really want to get serious about dual wheel size compatibility, they could start introducing some of what we have seen on MTB full suspension bikes. chips in forks and an inventive way to adjust height and angles could help clear up some of the shortcomings one wheel size or the other presents.

[@thebrowns5337]

Otso have the flip chip or whatever it's called. Guess that would help on the back end.

[@RusticRussellAdventures]

Thanks for tackling this sensitive topic. Either way, we just need to keep pedaling and enjoy the ride 👍 Happy Trails man

[@gilerd77]

I've done a 650B conversion on a diamondback haanjo and a fairdale weekender. Both bikes had the same handling change you talk about and became very Supple. I did enjoy the DB as my speed commuter so I went back to 700, kept 650 on fairdale. One aspect of the 650 is those fat gumwalls just made the bikes look great! Pedal impact on the street was an issue once with 650.

[@truballr32]

Hey I have 26” wheels with 28 inch and some change tires 35c I believe but the Frame comes to close to my crotch. There is no space in the stand over position. I was thinking smaller wheels and slightly thicker tires because the ride is still a little hard. So that would check off two of my wants, softer ride and lower bicycle height but I’m worried about my pedals scraping. Is 700c smaller wheel than 26”?

[@CanyonWanderer]

Thanks for the "pedal strike" remarks! I just went from 700x50 (Big Apple Plus) to 700x42 (Pathfinder Pro) on my old Giant XR1 (2011). You made me realise I lost about 8mm of ground clearance (depends a bit on tire shape I guess). For the past few years I was going into a corner thinking "this should work, it is not as on my road bike", but actually it did get closer to what it would be on the road bike! BTW: next to 8mm I also dropped about a kilogram in weight just on the tires 😁, love the pathfinder so far!

[@BikeandSkiGeoff]

I'm one those guys... have an Open U.P. - for more tarmac and hardpack dirt roads I use 700c with an 11-42 cassette. For more loose, steep, & singletrack rides I'll throw on the wider 650b with an 11-46 cassette. 700c is more stable and faster... 650b is more agile. Just depends on where you're going to ride that day and what set-up will work best.

[@nesutoneko]

I ride a 60.5cm frame - 650B just looks & feels small on my bikes. Got a custom frameset in the works that will be 700c with room for 60mm wide tires and double crankset. Ride what makes you happy!

[@daltonrose8087]

I remember jumping on my bike as a kid and running bigger tires in the front or hard plastic seats...Ashtabula forks and cranks...riding all day... coming home hungry and looking forward to tomorrow’s ride...PLP keeps it real! Fun stuff! Thank you!

[@evanguarr9678]

re 10:42 since you measured the diameter of the two setups, you're only dropping the bike by 1/2" (~13 mm). Your point about pedal strike, etc. still very valid though!

[@speedikat6822]

About 10 years ago I picked up a Voodoo Dambala frameset with the intention of trying out the then newish category of a 29er. A few rides later it was stripped down and mothballed. More recently I picked up another bike with the intention or trying out the newish category of 650b. Falling in love with this bike, I set my attention of assembling the old Dambala with 27+ wheels. I contacted the maker asking them about such a change from spec. Thankfully they answered and gave it their blessing. It was then assembled with the new wheel size and additional input for dropbar/stem configuration. The new/old bike now rides really nicely on gravel. It does also show its roots on single-track too. The first version felt like I was on stilts but slow and stable with 700c/52mm tires. How about that!

[@fraji1]

650b Hunt Wheelset with Byways on my Specialized Diverge Comp Carbon. Great, fun ride.

[@karlkrieg858]

As a 6ft7 guy, I’m in love with my 29 2.2 from my RiversideTouring920... Also 80% of my rides are offroad.

[@davomccranko]

I can relate. At 6'5", my preference is for 700c and big tyres

[@karlkrieg858]

@@davomccranko once your 700 tire is larger than 50mm, it become a 29er 😉

[@4bbl4sp2ex]

I have both a 700 and 650 wheelset that I use on my Vaya. It is designed around 700x40 tires. I run DT C1850’s with 700x36 Exposures on the road and light gravel, and DT G1800’s with 650x2.1 Sparwoods on gravel / double / single track. I selected the size of both of these to be very similar in diameter to keep it as consistent as possible between wheels while also making it as different as I could for hard pack and chunk. My observations are very similar to yours in handling. The bike wakes up with the 650’s, even if they are much wider and the same overall diameter. I really enjoy this as the Vaya’s long chainstays make it’s response to input a little sluggish. The steering becomes quite a bit more responsive requiring a lot less body english in tight turns. It also spins up faster and I really like how it climbs. It also decelerates faster when hard on the brakes. The 700’s seem to make it more stable overall. If you take your hands off you almost have to try to make it turn. It seems to take more effort to accelerate, but once you are up to speed it maintains speed better. On more uniform surfaces it tracks better. I love the bike with either set of tires, but I have to say I personally enjoy it more on the 650’s. I finally have one bike to rule them all, it just has two wheelsets!

[@ewillia007]

I'm building a wheelset to put WTB Venture 650x47's on a 2017 Giant Anyroad 1 that came with 700x32's. I've measured, with calipers, to confirm there's ample clearance in the fork to accommodate the greater tire width. The reason for the conversion is mostly because I want to have a 650b option for the bike but also because I want to lower the BB by that round-about 1-inch difference. I'm not against chucking on shorter crank arms if pedal strike becomes an issue

[@Enidub]

I made the switch to 650b tubeless on my diverge and love the set up at the moment as I prefer dirt to tarmac, but it’s always good to know I have set off 700s for when I’m riding with my roadie friends. From the different components I’ve collected over the years, as one does, it’s enjoyable being able to set up in different configurations given the ride at hand. The Brompton remains the most fun bike due to living in a city, but I’d like to think that when I’m ready to invest in the bike I’ll have for the rest of my life, I’ll know exactly what I want from the different setups I’ve experimented with

[@ckawa77]

I have Norco Search that supports 700x42 and was considering some 650bs so that I can put wider tires on it. Having gone from 700's on a bike to 650's, were their any pros/cons that you noticed?

[@Likelybiking]

Ive unknowingly have been selling all my 700c bikes haha. I definitely have fallen in love with 650b and 26”

[@phillockwood8414]

The Specialized Diverge is perhaps the best bicycle I ever owned. I can ride it anywhere by simply changing my tires to match the terrain. I have a light all Carbon version and so riding a fast pace on the road. For vacation it’s terrific. Just take the appropriate tires and wheels for different surfaces.

[@george8214]

Great info. Very well explained. You don’t have to qualify your opinions. Your experience is shortening the learning curve and reducing trial-and-error for many.

[@jotsingh8917]

I wanted to change my Salsa Fargo M frame with 29 wheels to 27.5” as it is borderline for my 175 cm heights. Watching your clip made me change my mind and keep as is. Thanks.

[@matthewlewis9356]

I thought 29 wheels is 700c but thicker for mountain bike

[@wombatsauce]

Oh no! I already ordered my parts and am just watching this now.. I am going from 700x38 to 650bx2.2. Doing this madness for a couple reasons but mostly because according to bikecalc this is only a 7mm difference in circumference, but also because I mostly ride dirt/gravel and weigh around 90kg - so the extra air volume and traction should be interesting. Also it's going to look ridiculous which I am pretty excited about... Thank you for the informative video!!

[@mattmacpherson1033]

Great Job! This is one of the bikes I am considering. The model I want is not available until 2022 so might be getting something else. Local dealer got 2 this year and they were sold before they got to the shop.

[@bernatix]

Good very unbiased video... I like riding 28/29 since im tall and feel more within the bike on larger wheels. However I think the difference between 28/29 an 27.5 are just too small to really compare. If you really wanted nimble and strong wheels go to 26 inch (that might help it not complety die out). I still use it on the dirtbike for pumptracks and its great ;)

[@arunabhbarua1924]

For a relatively small rider the Canyon Grail XS is a brilliant all road solution with 2 wheelsets. It's designed with 650Bx40 tyres for off road. Switch to a light 700cx32 Conti setup for tarmac. Close enough overall size for handling, fits the bike even with mudguards. Additionally the lighter wheel and tyre drops the weight down by 1kg which is significant.

[@ruudinkeksijat]

Main reason why I have 700c in my daily bikes is selection and cost of tires: Getting for example studded winter tires is next to impossible for 650. With 700 you can rely getting tires long in the future. Had an issue with my 26" mtb. Winter tires no longer available. Same happen with my kids 24" tires...

[@StevenYoungEtc]

According to Jan Heine/Rene Herse, no difference in rolling resistance exists within our common wheel sizes, assuming the 650 tires are appropriately upsized (as yours are, roughly). The difference would come in wind resistance upon wider tires, but it's probably a wash between Raddlers and Byways. As far as the feel of the bike, going with lighter 700 wheels also makes a big difference in this kind of bike (my own experience Breezer Inversion).

[@spotsill]

Thanks for opening my world I never thought of that with disk brakes changing rim sizes is no big issues. When you need an extra small frame one inch can definitely make a huge difference in stand over height and might give me the possibilities of a size frame. Ironically i’am 5’2 with giant size 10.5 shoes .

[@aarons8168]

I added 650b to my gen 2 specialized diverge aluminum frame. Pros: Overall, makes the bike more fun for kicking around the trails - especially with platform pedals. Smaller overall diameter than 700c x 38mm (which feel like wagon wheels) Con: more pedal strikes; diverge has an extremely low bb. I’m just a little careful, and all is good.

[@jp93309]

Thanks for posting this detailed summary of pros/cons. I hadn’t considered the potential for pedal strike. Currently riding with GRX 810 crankset 170mm length, may have to swap to GRX 600 to get 165s. FYI just shared this video on several FB cycling groups I belong to. Seems to be the topic of the day.

[@SteveFullerBikes]

I personally don't find pedal strike to be an issue when riding gravel and tame singletrack. In those situations, you're not generally pedaling through corners or dealing with lots of rocks. It's just not a big enough issue to go to the work and expense of a new crank in those cases.

[@grmusica5400]

Great video. I was going to go the other direction: my gravel bike came stock 650B and presumably was designed around that wheel size, but some folks do run 700c on it. I was contemplating spending $$$ to put together a 700c set up for it to go "faster", but before I did I just swapped to a slicker tire, and voila, I felt faster immediately (not to mention the slicker tires have the same outside dimension as the knobbier ones I had, measured to the knobs, so I actually gained volume with the switch). I ride party pace so that for me does the trick, especially considering it's a smaller frame, size 50.

[@hawkeye5035]

The overall drop with your example would be 0.5”, not “almost 1 inch”... the drop would be one half of the difference in overall wheel diameter.

[@recreationventuring]

My bike came with 700 and rode it with those wheels for the first 6 months. I have now had 650b wheels for about 4 months and I prefer them. Much more comfortable ride, feels like I have another gear for steep climbs and am able better able to maneuver up technical climbs. The biggest negative is I have been pedal striking more. I can avoid it when I am thinking about it but part of riding is letting my mind wander. Next bike will definitely be designed for 650b wheels.

[@mathewrose2951]

I got my 9 year old a XXS Cannondale Synapse because he wanted a road bike. It's his first "grown up" bike. Even with 30mm road tires on it, however, he can't easily go on dirt and gravel paths. My solution was going to be to find a budget set of alloy 650b rims that will take 34-38 mm gravel tires and just have him swap out wheels when he wants to leave the tarmac. It seemed the best idea while he's still growing. I have four bikes in my garage, but they'll all still fit in five years.

[@mister_ray]

I put ICAN G25 650B on my 2020 Trek Boone. It provided a few advantages: Wider 40mm tire at lower pressure, eliminated tow overlap, lowered the BB slightly for better stability, easier to fit in airplane bike case, slightly less gear inches for easier climbing (38x11-36).

[@ericbrozell2891]

I bought a Lynskey Livewire last year. I was considering 650B. I struggled with the 650B/700 question. At the final moment the salesperson stated the 700 just rolls better. This is my first 29er and wow, does it ever roll over everything including small cars....

[@ShadLife]

I just ordered a State All Road with both wheel sizes. I will definitely do a comparison between the two wheels once I get the bike.

[@OHJLM]

Thank you for the comparison. I have a Redwood and have been thinking about the Jamis for longer rides. I will say adding supple tires to the Redwood greatly increased the comfort level. I'm 6'4" and now prefer 650b over 700c.

[@jacksonlea6078]

also 6'4" and have a redwood, totally in love with 650b now too

[@alabamacyclist5373]

I have a Cannondale SuperX that I run 700x33 for CX and then when I run 650bx42 when I hit gravel rides. The biggest difference I've notices is the reduction in ground clearance. I haven't found it detrimental for me, but I have noticed it.

[@stevepark6363]

Oh my, this video is packed with nerdery, in a good way. Nice point wrt the lack of industry transparency on the actual effects of swapping wheel size, but, after understanding those effects, swapping wheel sizes is compelling exactly for the resulting transformation in handling. ...This all comes down to understanding what wheels&tire sizings do which things well. Not better or worse, just finding the right tool for the job. Been drinking up 650b for years, but am more recently enjoying RH 700x48 knobbies for monster truck-ish qualities.

[@alexben927]

This bike is truly versatile and fit the price unmatched. I bought an S3 model, have a 650bx47 wheel set for more aggressive ridding and carbon 700cx40 wheelset with WTB Byway for light gravel and road riding. In the front I installed a Specialized pizza rack where I put my dogs basket to ride him around town or perfect for my bikepacking set-up. To top it off, installed a Wolf tooth goat link with their 11x42 cassette for ultimate gearing on the GRX group set.

[@ThatGuy-mn2gg]

The 2020 S3 was the best value of gravel bikes. Shimano GRX hydraulic, flat mount thru axles, and Reynolds 525 for I believe 1399.00. it was the only bike that I liked that was in stock in my size, but I wanted the S2 for the 1x and I wanted 650b on the bike. I bought a Felt Breed 30.

[@TheDude13]

Great video. Well balanced. Thanks! I'll stick with my 700's I expect, but appreciate the information comparing them.

[@kimkrimson]

Thanks for the great content again. I love that many bikes can be swapped from 650b to 700c but I agree that manufacturers should highlight the differences better to help people to choose which one is the right one for them (650 all the way)

[@michaelwtapp]

I ride a 52cm bike frame. My front bag def rubs more on the 700c wheelset vs. the 650b. I def feel higher up off the road on the 700c set too

[@tomrussell7899]

I rode my bike for a whole summer with 700x32 and had a 650B wheelset built late in the fall. I now use 650B x 48 GravelKing slicks. I would never go back. The 700 wheels and tires have been in my garage for 2 years now gathering dust.

[@chris1275cc]

My go to Gravel bike is my Verenti Substance II originally sold with 700c wheels, according to blurb on the now gone website it was "Designed around the faster 700c wheel" Shortly after as 650b was gaining in popularity Vitus released the Substance V2 with 650b wheels which was "Designed around 650b wheels for more control and better handling" The frames are identical other than the colour. The best thing was at the time I purchased the Verenti it was an end of the line model on sale for £875, and the Vitus was a "new" model still being displayed at bike shows with a price tag of £1500.

[@frankducett9]

Toe overlap, a rarely mention parameter. Great video.

[@andrewhamilton3486]

Right. I have a felt breed 30 size 51cm. Stock 650b x 47. Love it. Supple, quick acceleration. Have to work slightly harder to stay with those on 700c x 40mm on the road. On the gravel they're super. Have the same wheels in 700x40 ramblers quicker on the road, but not by much. I really like having the ability to change depending on where I'm riding. There are differences to handling, but nothing that makes me want one over the other. Both wheesets I run are approximately 1550g each. Ramblers a bit lighter than the WTB byways. Thinking about getting some conti speed kings 2.2 inch, cos they fit and are lighter than the WTB. Hope this is helpful

[@ericswitchbaxh]

I have both 700c and 650b wheel sets for my Felt Broam. Running 700 x 40 for pavement and smooth gravel, and put on the 27.5 x 2.1s (Kenda HoneyBadger) for when riding the rougher stuff or going exploring. I find it's really like having 2 bikes for the price of a wheelset. Actually, it's just my old MTB wheelset, so it only cost tires. Love having that versatility, and haven't run into any negatives with this bike.

[@reddevil211287]

Awesome video...been waiting for an in-depth comparison like this. Cheers! 🍻

[@bernierei657]

From 700c to 650b, it felt like my bike's more stable and I feel more confident. It also gave me a better standover height since I'm already tiptoeing when on a 700c wheelset.

[@JitinMisra]

What was the tire thickness difference and was their a speed difference ?

[@peterharris3096]

I have a vitus substance with 650 x 47 WTB byways. Coming from hard tails rather than road bikes I thought this would be a good compromise for cycling from my back door instead of travelling to a trail centre. Its nimble, great for steering around pathway barriers and good for gravel sections. Watching this you have persauded me not to invest in a 700cc wheelset just for a bit of extra speed. I just accept that some roadies will always pass me on 23 mm rubber.

[@rasmuswi]

The thing Gerhard Vroomen (who runs both Open and 3T) tended to talk about is that a 650bx47 tire has more or less the same outer diameter as a 700cx30 road tire, so the handling of those two wheel/tire sizes would be very similar, which means you could turn it into a road bike or a gravel bike without drastically alter the handling. They don't talk about that as much today as it seems people usually cram in the widest tire they can get away with regardlss of wheel size.

[@StuartJanssen]

My all-road bike is a dual-wheelset setup and it has worked pretty well for me. It was ostensibly my go-fast bike when I was still sort of racing, so I have the 700 wheelset with 35mm tubeless tires, and then the 650b wheelset with 48mm, both gravelkings, slick and semiknobbed in that order. I haven't found the change in handling to be super noticeable, but I'm also 60cm frame so it was unlikely that I'd have issues with toe-overlap. For my purposes it works pretty well, but if I were going to set up a purpose-built bike I'd probably go straight 650b because the cushion effect and better traction are definitely worth the weight and/or speed penalties on gravel.

[@event4216]

My vintage MTB with 26" wheels is as nimble as it gets.

[@MikhalMcAlister]

Upgraded my old 26" MTB to 27,5" (650b) and converted it to gravelish. Best of both worlds, sweet stuff :)

[@kaedeschulz5422]

And as sketchy as it get's as retro MTB's are short as hell and steep angled as hell! Switched from a late 90s XC Hardtail to a modern Trail Hardtail and the difference is INSANE! less nimble yes but not as much as expected and a LOT more stable when going very fast!

[@kaedeschulz5422]

@@MikhalMcAlister Old school MTB's make good gravel bike's i guess.

[@yesterdaytech9569]

I got a schwinn hybrid 700c I use almost every day. I am still building on it.

[@michaelf9101]

Same here. 1991 Schwinn hybrid

[@yesterdaytech9569]

@@michaelf9101 update I trashed my schwinn because the gearing was ass. Now I have a huffy nel lusso.

[@ikeelu024]

I ordered one of those "very few makers" 700x50 bikes, the Commencal FCB. Should have it by the end of next month, cant wait! MTB rider who wanted a commuter bike with the option to use it for gravel. Seemed like a perfect fit.

[@BoxCarBoy12]

All of the points you made were valid Russ, but I think you could've gone into more detail about the speed aspect. 650b's aren't necessarily slower, they're in fact faster under acceleration because they are smaller wheels that make your gear ratio a bit lighter. They just don't hold momentum as well as 700c under a steady effort, which is where the perception of speed stems from. So just like all your points, it's down to how you ride. If you live in an area with lots of steep climbs and rollers, 650b may be faster. But if you live in an area like Kansas with miles of flat, open gravel, then 700c might be better for you. I don't even think 650b's are actually any slower from my ride feel perspective. They may feel a bit slower in certain scenarios, but my ride times/average speed differ very little from when I had 700c wheels on the same terrain. And I can keep up with my buddies on 700c wheels just as easily with my 650b's.

[@TheInart]

*very cool and interesting video as always!

[@outbackwack368]

Great assessment! I've been going back and forth whether I want to drop the bucks on 650's. Unfortunately, my Topstone max tire size is 700x42 or 650x48. The bottom bracket drop would be way too much for me on 650's. I've clipped the pedals as it is with the stock 700x37 Riddler's.

[@jeffk433]

Nice job Russ! 1 interesting idea here is that the 700c size might be better for the newer roadie learning gravel as it is more stable. And then as able to feel more secure on more challenging surfaces they could switch to a 650b for a bit more responsive handling with more cush. The flip chip idea for the fork could also help.

[@bernatix]

Don't overthink it, its only a small difference, bikes are bikes

[@jeffk433]

@@bernatix Bikes are bikes but I have had friends who are purely social riders go and buy a bike that someone said was good for gravel. The bikes have often been cross bikes with quick steering and 700x32 tires in the past. They hated the experience on anything rougher than a well groomer rail trail. Let some borrow my ancient hard tail and they were happy with the less reactive steering and a bit wider tire. So if you can help someone find a frame to progress through it is a win.

[@germaincousineau8608]

New to the channel. Long time lurker 👀 Keep the awesome work Russ and Laura.

[@alexlove2502]

Great video and discussion. My Warbird came with 650B wheels/47mm tires. I’m 5’4”. Most of the riding close by is road, so I ended up getting a set of 700c wheels/35mm tires for longer/faster rides. I like both. With the 700c setup, the bike is like an endurance road bike, but more comfortable and stable. I think of the 650s as my “fun” wheels. They do feel more nimble, they spin up more quickly, and I love the cushy ride. I’m hoping they will give me confidence on rougher terrain. I would like to try 50mm tires next time, which will more closely match Salsa’s stated design spec of 700c/32mm. The only problem is that it’s a pain to swap out the wheels because the gearing usually needs to be adjusted.

[@truballr32]

Hey I have 26” wheels with 28 inch and some change tires 35c I believe but the Frame comes to close to my crotch. There is no space in the stand over position. I was thinking smaller wheels and slightly thicker tires because the ride is still a little hard. So that would check off two of my wants, softer ride and lower bicycle height but I’m worried about my pedals scraping. Is 700c smaller wheel than 26”?

[@jellyfishsalad5926]

I have a norco search xr. It takes both wheel sizes. I use both depending on the type of riding. The 27.5mm mtb wheelset is good with 50mm tyres for rougher mtb type rides and the 700c 35-40mm is good for road and gravel. They feel a bit different but that's fine with me and I just get used to whichever wheelset I'm running at the time.

[@fademasterfade227]

Well said and good insights. I have the 'shreddy' version of my bike and while it handles great and I love it; I believe it was designed more around 700c and so I have to be aware of pedal strike and I run pedals that are not too wide.

[@Pseudynom]

Does it affect pedal clearance to the ground?

[@andrewnorris5415]

Great discussion. I just got a Merida Silex. Not sure if you get them out there much in the US? Mine was sold with 650b. But they sell the same frame with 700c. What's interesting is the tall top tube, which puts you in a more upright position for a drop bar gravel bike. Long reach and short stem too. The handling is pretty stable compared to most (long wheel base and slack fork). So the only downside to the 650b version is peddle strikes. I have not ridden it enough to find out yet but fitted protectors to the carbon cranks. A lower BB also improves handling as you know. So good as long as do not strike. And can always go shorter crank which helps with knees apparently.

[@joeswain8373]

Hey! You make great videos. I live in Helena and I’m stoked you’re making these in Missoula. Cheers!

[@daviddauza]

Going wider with 650b is a major point. More volume/suspension, larger contact patch, nearly same total diameter ,,, particularly on gravel of variable coarseness.

[@mackmcpherson6995]

We live in the same town! I knew the scenery in your footage looked eerily familiar..

[@lawriegreen8374]

I'm still riding on 26" and expecting that soon they'll be promoted as the lighter stronger and faster alternative.

[@avocette]

I think the nice thing about multi-tire-size as a concept is not "having two bikes at once" but rather "having the option to choose whatever tire size you prefer" it reduces production of tire-size-specific frames, and opens up to customers who may find tire size a dealbreaker. Sadly though, most adjustable dropout designs are only at the horizontal axis, which doesn't compensate for bike drop or BB height.

[@kefkalon]

I converted a Surly Troll running 26 with 2.5 extraterrestrial to 650b 2.4 wtb riddlers. The 650b wheel build is tubeless and lighter. The bike feels less grounded and leaner. Yet I think Surly designed the Troll for 26 wheels. It may have been better for me to build a lighter 26 wheel and run 2.3 or 2.4 tires. I put 26 x 2.3 rat trap pass tires on a 1990s GT MTB. Changed the bike in a positive way. I agree with the sentiment that a frame is built for an optimal wheel size. It is fun to tinker though. I think it’s more important to have a frame that can handle different tire widths than wheel sizes.

[@davehoover8853]

I think 3T started the 2 wheel concept and they have an interesting table calling out “RAM AND WAM” dimensions for various tires and rims. You can use it to keep your overall circumference the same and keep the handling similar. OPEN has the same owner/designer and therefore similar thinking. I run 2 sets of wheels and for me it is not about the wheel diameter or some notion of increased speed. It just an easy way to change out the type of tire want for the expected conditions. I have a smooth tread on 700c wheels for road rides. I have a chunkier tire for rougher gravel, single track and bike packing where the tread and volume are superb for compliance and grip. It’s really about not wearing out my “knobbies” on the road and living with a little stiffer set up on the road. Great presentation on this subject!

[@PathLessPedaledTV]

Vroomen started OPEN first and carried over to 3T from what I understand.

[@davehoover8853]

Yes, OPEN was his first company. I think 3T has really pushed the idea of tire and rim size and rim width. Good information. I love 650b as I live in Teton Valley and over 50% of the roads are gravel and the suspension provided by the air volume and lower tire pressure makes a big difference. I think it can be argued that a 650b with some tread is actually faster over a long, rough ride. Comfort, grip and being more relaxed on the bike makes you less fatigued and therefore faster in the long run. Taking my first spin on new tires today.: Pirelli Cinturato Gravel M 650 50b!

[@jan16hk]

great insights..... to me, there are more geometry and loading aspects that affects the handling of the bike - i ride 700c road, 26 mtbs, gravel and 29mtbs. I primarily switch from 650 to 700c gravel to achieve the tire air volume required for a particular riding condition requirement....

[@jeancarlospena3984]

Thank you for the last point about designing to a spec. It's something that's often overlooked: you might not feel the change or maybe one small change can really alter the dynamics of the bike!

[@Mike-vd2qt]

Thanks for video. I'm currently trying to decide between a Surly Straggler 700c, and Midnight Special 650b, in a 58cm frame size. At 70 years, I want comfort, but also want to occasionally do a road ride with a group of "mature" cyclists. 🙂