Can Hornby Trains Run On Extremely Tight Curves?

[@barryosullivan5255]

Dockyard modellers: You had my curiosity, now you have my attention

[@EndlessFilmLimited]

Never a truer statement spoken.

[@christopherpeter978]

True

[@SamsTrains]

haha!! I'd love to make one of those now!! :O Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@talesfromsodor]

Is that a Django Unchained quote? XD

[@FranklinAC227]

It's "you have my curiosity now you have to keep my attention"

[@pietersnackaert]

Next episode: Sam discovers micro layouts and makes one.

[@SamsTrains]

Ooh that sounds awesome - I guess I could now!! xD Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@mikeking2539]

@@SamsTrains "T" gauge check it out.

[@seankash8546]

Micro layouts can be done in any gauge! I've been successful running some 2-6-2's over curves like these.

[@Wreckedftfoxy]

lol nah he figures out model railways in scrap mechanic

[@merlinandmurdoch7837]

Her: “I bet he’s thinking of another female” Him: “what’s the lowest radius Smokey joe can handle?

[@azuma7628]

They do say steam engines are female.

[@SamsTrains]

haha!! xD

[@welshdave5263]

If only images could be posted in KZbin comments, I would make that meme.

[@nigelericogden3200]

Indeed !!

[@welshdave5263]

So, this is the translation...

[@SodorBrony]

Smokey Joe deserves an award. The “Curve Master”!

[@An_Economist_Plays]

It is a mountain pony.

[@EofETrainsandLCs]

True!

[@ayeshafenner7180]

Joe only made it around because he's very small

[@smokeyjoesrailroad]

Thank you lol

[@BMMEC6000]

SPOILERS!!!

[@Steamer96]

Usually a loco with wheels closer to each other can handle tight curves, the drawback to a shorter wheelbase is hunting oscillation happens more on it vs a longer wheelbase. Also you should've done the minimum radius for coupling since some yards can have engines like the Pecketts and SECR P class and little space.

[@davebell4917]

Yards also have the problem of the points. I suppose somebody making their own could try to build a shorter radius version. I remember seeing very old articles about that, and I think you would need some purpose-made jigs to bend the rail, Also, the materials would matter, but steel. nickel silver, or brass? Would the bent rail need annealing? On real railways they use gauge widening on tight curves. Partly it reduces the side wear on rails and flanges. Because of the wheel profile, there's a slight taper, it can also affect wheel slip, but I look at the math on that in the research papers I found, and I get a headache.

[@SamsTrains]

Yeah that's right, thanks a lot for the info! I will have to try this some time with 0-6-0s! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@RichardKuivila1947]

x-8-x locos have too many flanges on all of those drivers. Front pair and back pair ONLY, works.

[@MoleculeMind7]

I made a roundy round layout with 9” curves after being inspired by budget model railways

[@andrewjames1190]

I am building one right now. Just awaiting some parts which will be here for the weekend.

[@SamsTrains]

That sounds awesome Jordan - what do you run on it?! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@LordPhobos6502]

Similar story - 230mm curves for my model trams. Some locos will still make that curve too :p I used a laser-cut stencil to make the curves on soldered PCB sleepers, with room gor transition curves... I'm so happy with the trackwork :)

[@MoleculeMind7]

@@LordPhobos6502 I had a wooden track setter laser cut for me which sits between the flexi track rails. I had two made actually with the correct spacing for Hornby tracks so the ends of the curves met the straights and points correctly. you can run old Hornby bo bos on the curves and I'm currently shortening a bubble car.

[@seagraverailwaysandmodels2408]

The guys over at Budget Model Railways have done some excellent tight radius layouts for 0-4-0s - but don’t think even they went this tight!

[@IronHorseRailways]

They got an old deltic to go Around 0 Radius too!

[@SamsTrains]

Yeah I heard about those - I'll have to check that out! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@pjstar4561]

Sam: puts modern music in his video Indy: Falls off his chair in utter disbelief...

[@SamsTrains]

haha I know right - what's going on!?? :O Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@smashrc8481]

Anyone else hoping the track would come loose and what ever was on it to go flying? ...No just me

[@SamsTrains]

haha it did cross my mind... I was wearing goggles after -2nd radius! ;D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@Gothix1066]

7:44 Gee whiz! That looks like Minecraft style track now lol.

[@SamsTrains]

haha I know!! Maybe I could build a minecraft layout?! ;D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@Kuriboh1008]

@@SamsTrains My favourite Minecraft minecart is Smokey Joe

[@Ezz652]

@@SamsTrains YES PLEASE DO THAT

[@mytinplaterailway]

I wonder if it might be interesting to see how larger loco's would get on with the original curve? Tender loco's, carriages, wagons etc. Could a small layout cater for an A4? Just a thought.

[@SamsTrains]

Yeah that is the big question - I might do this again some time!! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@thecaledonian4]

This is the answer to my prayers! I’ve seen a channel called Budget Model Railways do an 18-inch-wide loop layout so about 16” for a full 180 degree turn. The childlike joy you show when Smokey makes it round that -2nd curve is hilarious. More experimental videos please! - The Caledonian

[@SamsTrains]

haha thanks so much - really glad you liked it! I'll do more like this soon hopefully!! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@buddyhoward8963]

7:12 "I can't imagine a layout with curves that tight" did you forget about mines, and city tram layouts?

[@johntunicliffe9019]

You hit the nail on the head Sam. Many people don't have space for 3rd or 4th radii. So 1st and 0 radius are a God send. Brilliant experiment. Thanks Sam.

[@ThatModelRailwayGuy]

Great video Sam. I've seen others make incredible micro layouts using curves similar to this but you really pushed it to the limit! I've always wanted to have a go at a minimum circuit layout, maybe I'll have to try it out now! Thanks for sharing with us 😃

[@andrewjames1190]

I think you're approach with modular sections would combine really well with micro curves used offscreen like a fiddle yard.

[@ThatModelRailwayGuy]

@@andrewjames1190 Thanks Andrew, that's not a bad idea! I may have to implement that some day 👍

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks a lot mate, yeah I've heard about those too - I'd love to build one myself now!! :O Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@j0nn032]

This is a late comment but I do want to share this: I tested this theory on a bunch of trains and quite shockingly my Hornby P2 Cock O’ The North could easily handle curves between radius 0 and 1st radius. Any tighter than the curve I tested it on made it derail due to its massive wheel base. My Flying Scotsman however handled up to radius 0.

[@scottlewis775]

Sam’s Trains: uploads a new experiment video. Me: How could he have known I needed to relax after a stressful week at uni? Thanks for being here when we need you Sam.

[@SamsTrains]

haha thanks Scott, that's my pleasure mate - hope life is good at Uni! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@BoxtankEngine]

I did the opposite once, I built a circuit of radius 25… I actually did try to build a layout with -1st radius and it kind of worked. I eventually just got a little Märklin BR 01 on the layout and the outcome of that convinced me that it wasn’t the best idea. But yeah, I ran an 0-6-0 on it too…

[@thechair371]

-3rd rails: You can't beat me. Sam: I know, but he can. *Smokey Joe has joined the battle*

[@PieAndChips]

I choose Pikachu

[@GaryNumeroUno]

Class 40 respectfully withdraws from the competition!

[@SamsTrains]

haha I know right!! ;D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@stephania6322]

Kijoikkk

[@stephania6322]

@@SamsTrains jijkijkij

[@alan_mythicalgnome]

I remember when I was 6 years old, my Dad made my layout with 'Play Craft' curves which I think came from a clockwork trainset.They were a lot tighter than 1st radius curves. My good old faithful, Triang, bright yellow 0-4-0T 'Connie' loco was more than happy to go round them. At aged 6, it regularly went round them virtually at the speed of light. This loco was was played to death. I loved it. *(Just been on Google. Playcraft track was designed for French HO scale in the 1960s)

[@creepertwins7066]

When you did 0 radius Me: let me guess you’re going to go into negative radius numbers *goes into negative numbers* Me: knew it

[@SamsTrains]

haha you called it!! xD Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@TheMemeTankEngine]

@@___1205 can u stop plplease

[@pugwash1]

Maybe you should use this for future reviews to show the limit a train could turn Before either derailing or flopping off the track

[@SamsTrains]

Great idea!! If I had the time and space, that'd be an awesome feature to add! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@cmdrbudman1ao580]

@@SamsTrains Just use the same piece of wood with all the curves already attached. Could even screw down one of those Mehano controllers and wire them all up.

[@williamcarrington61]

​@@SamsTrainsMakes me think about the Port of London Authority system around the Silvertown area . Even Tate & Lyle had a connection to British Railways. However we won't linger on the failed attempt to run bulk sugar tankers disaster. The Train of Tankers was "Lost", a shunting error !

[@LIMowersAndMore]

I can hear the flanges screaming, “ouch”.

[@SamsTrains]

haha yeah... it was a bit painful at the end there! ;D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@KieranMcGovern7530]

Sam was barely able to handy the shear size if his wood......

[@SamsTrains]

haha I know right!! xD Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@EthansTrains]

Budget Model Railways has a layout that has ridiculously tight curves, you should see it! I like these experimental videos! :)

[@SamsTrains]

Ooh awesome - I will look into that! Thanks mate, glad you like them! :D Cheers, Sam :)

[@OlivierGabin]

@@SamsTrains They made 228mm/9in radius curves, and it works fine. And another with 7 1/2 in/190mm curve radius, here is the video : kzbin.info/www/bejne/pn-Uon-trtOSmMk

[@GearHeadedHamster]

The mathematics of track geometry is absolutely fascinating. Other experiments to try is running 0-4-0's with long wheel bases. running 0-6-0's. bogied locos. Or various rolling stock and watching how the cuppers interact. there's just so much to try.

[@SamsTrains]

Yeah it is actually - it's amazing that all of these models just work when they're released!! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@GearHeadedHamster]

@@SamsTrains No problem. Have fun with your new urban trolley layout ;)

[@joeyfletchengines]

Can you try this with the larger locos I see my larger diesel locos get round first radius bends and I'm just curious how much they can take

[@SamsTrains]

Great idea Joey - I reckon they could take at least radius 0, maybe less?? :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@stanley3647]

@@SamsTrains Try to leave all curves at board for future testing... maybe nail curve track to board - make it more rigid. Try with wagons maybe as well? Will be interesting how tight it can be for limited room ;)

[@robmasterman]

What a wonderful experiment Sam, confirms why the real size locos were built to operate on tight curves....and how well these small locos have been made....Bob

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks a lot Bob - yeah absolutely - I'm amazed by this really!! :O Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@alegorailwaymodeller3115]

I made a layout for my brother and it's got 20 inches as a diameter and we can run triang 0,6,0 engines with no flanges on the middle set ok

[@cheesekay7314]

Jesus

[@SamsTrains]

Wow, that sounds awesome - yeah the blind axles will definitely make a big difference there! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@gleggett3817]

The problem with tension in the track looks to be more from the sleepers joints than the rail. I think clipping all the connections between sleepers would help. I would also cut a guide out of a sheet of wood with the right radius to bend the rail against to get a smooth transition.

[@photographerjamie]

Smokey Joe is the little engine that could! What a little legend! Wonder if Hornby is watching..

[@SamsTrains]

I know right!! There's nothing he can't do?!? ;D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@photographerjamie]

@@SamsTrains Not a problem, very entertaining ^^

[@closeyamy]

Fun experiment, crazy that they could go round that tiny last curve!

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks Chloe - yeah I was really impressed with that! :O Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@dasmann3904]

My “Strathyre station” layout has a curve that I would call -2nd radius curve. The curve goes round a board just over 30cm wide. Another thing, I thought that you should create a bloopers series!-Das Mann

[@welshdave5263]

Either a bloops video compilation, or a just a couple of them in the KZbin shorts format.

[@SamsTrains]

Blimey, that is pretty tight - what sort of engines do you run on that?! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@MisterSprocket16]

Greetings from America! I liked this experiment quite a lot, it reminded me of my grandfather's stories of his old workplace in St. Louis Missouri. He worked at a boiler fabrication plant and they had rail lines running inside the building to help transport their work. Many of the curves were so tight that only a little two axle loco would run on them and the freight cars (wagons you call them) would squeal as they went around the curves. Good memories, keep up the good work, I'm a huge fan of British steam locos. Cheers!

[@SamsTrains]

Greeting Allen, really glad you enjoyed the experiment! That sounds fascinating - I bet he had some real tales to tell! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@PieAndChips]

Next time on Sam's Trains, Sam tests Hornby's ability to defy gravity by nailing the track to the ceiling

[@SamsTrains]

haha we'll see about that!! ;D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@OlivierGabin]

@@SamsTrains Further step affter this one : can we do model railroading in low Earth orbit. Featuring Sam in the ISS.

[@PieAndChips]

@@OlivierGabin looooooooool

[@lfewell2161]

@@SamsTrains Looking forward to this, can be done as Jennifer kirk has done this with a locomotive, I'm sure you're more than capable of making it work with a train.

[@richardclowes6123]

I'm hugely glad I came across this video as I am setting up my track to run my Hogwarts Express (4-6-0) on 1st radius curves as it is the only way to use my shed space. So far it has run on my test layout okay but I have heard other railway video presenters saying that if you use a tighter curve than what is recommended that you will burn out the motor and cause other damages to boot ! As I consider you as the 'expert on testing trains' I would seriously appreciate your honest opinion. All your videos have been so worth watching as I learn so much from them. Thank you, Rick the Bulldog from Digon Alley Station.

[@MistaMatthews]

Hi Sam, great video! This is something I have been wondering about! Any chance you could do a continuation and test what kind of loco's can make 1st radius curves despite manufacturer recommendation such as some larger steam loco's, dmu's/emu's?

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks a lot mate - yeah great idea, that would be a great one to try! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@selwynlawton7939]

Hey Sam, out of scale, long wheel flanges are fantastic for very tight curves and/or any curves and turnouts. That's why 00 Steam Locomotive front pony wheels are made "out of Scale". Australian Manufactures need follow this practice.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks a lot for sharing Selwyn, that's very interesting! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@TheSaint491]

1:17 sam, being the youngest middle aged school teacher ever

[@SamsTrains]

haha!! xD

[@GelatoTaco]

Just started getting into the hobby in the past 2 weeks or so, and as a man who greatly enjoys slightly scuffed DIY kinda stuff, these tighter turns are right up my alley. This actually massively helps me in terms of just how compact I can make a small railyard I have planned. Hopefully I can snag a nice used model as my first to use as a shunter.

[@SamsTrains]

Fantastic! Good luck! Just remember not to make the curves too tight, as it can stress the wheel flanges. Also take couplings into account when you're designing curves - typical NEM couplings can usually only handle wider couplings! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@masterofsouthern5427]

Well N gauge is now useless for more now 😂 great video Sam🙂

[@SamsTrains]

haha exactly!! ;D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@stefanwosinsky1935]

Phew... for a second i was afraid the loco’s on the shelf above the staircase we’re gonna take a dive, but luckily you managed to squeeze through... nice test, i have some fleischmanns (1/87) that’ll accept a 357mm curve, although i have 1 streamlined class 03 that refuses to do it.

[@SamsTrains]

haha I'm used to them now, always got to be careful, lol! Ooh that sounds interesting! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@nickdaniels4899]

If Hornby ever decide to go down the Narrow gauge modeling route, they should take tips from your good self. :)

[@SamsTrains]

haha thank you - I'm sure there's not much they could learn from me though! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@rinnmhor]

For years Jouef made a 12inch radius (smaller than hornby first radius), modellers often used it for tram lines/dock layouts. If you only have room for first radius it's handy if you get some as it's set track that allows you to add in an inner line on a first radius layout - almost everything that was made in margate to go around a first radius will also go around it without any problem. I used it on my layout before to achieve a fifth inner line, the outer 4 being standard hornby 1st-4th radius.

[@SamsTrains]

I never knew about this Christian, thanks for sharing! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@markfiddament9383]

Next project - ghost train layout...

[@SamsTrains]

Ooh that sounds spooky Mark!! :O Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@TheSharkKing45]

1) I think that you might want to let Hornby know of your discovery , Sam... as this is genuinely impressive. Perhaps 0 Radius and -1 Radius could be the new minimum for UK HO/00 gauge layouts! 2) Perhaps this test could be redone with 0-6-0 tank and tender engines , with the 0 Radius and -1 Radius curves?

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks mate - it would be awesome to see Hornby release say an industrial train set with ultra tight curves - could open up a new market there! Great idea - I should really have tried other engines on it! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@TrainosaurusMC]

Sam has posted another great video :)

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks so much!! :D

[@CymruJedi]

This was actually a fantastic idea for a video. Great content mate!

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks so much, really glad you liked it mate! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@rustyduncan3664]

Next video: Can a model train climb a wall

[@SamsTrains]

haha!! Now there's a question!! ;D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@kentlangham5811]

Back in the 1980's there was a train set that would do just that. I believe it was made by Tyco. You would build most of the layout on the level but 1/2 half of an oval would extend vertically off of the table. It was advertised going up a wall to support the force exerted by the train. A friend of mine had one and I remember it working fairly well but the train had to be run at near full throttle. If you find one or remanufacture one I would love to see the video.

[@jackmason7823]

He's kind of already done this with his sprocket loco 😂

[@SilverDragonTV]

Smokey Joe is the "Onion Bubs" of model trains. You can't not love him. Truly a perfect specimen.

[@SamsTrains]

haha you're right, haha!! ;D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@solidsnake4595]

smokey Joe: Senpai did i do good? SamsTrains: better than i had hoped i was expecting you to derail on less of a curve!

[@smokeyjoesrailroad]

What lol

[@solidsnake4595]

@@smokeyjoesrailroad i have lockdown syndrome i have been given the cure but its gunna take a while before the effects kick in i bet XD

[@SamsTrains]

haha!! I feel exactly the same!! xD Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@bennickss]

Now I want to build an OO gauge wild mouse coaster using the -3rd radius curves

[@stantheshagster1484]

I'm going to try this whith my Smokey joe

[@vincentmusic09]

Im going to try this with a garrat

[@EthansTrains]

@@vincentmusic09 lol XD

[@SamsTrains]

Awesome! haha good luck with the Garratt! ;D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@TheDiscobeef]

Thanks for showing the stages. I've been hoping to make a roundy-round shelf layout for my pecket and this gives me confidence I can get there

[@SamsTrains]

It's a pleasure Stuart - sounds great, good luck with it!! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@Sam_Dabboi]

Run a decently big tender engine on those rails for fun please

[@SamsTrains]

haha good idea - I think it'd end badly though! ;D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@JohnPW22]

Amazing! Definitely now want to see some tests with larger engines!

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks so much John, I might do that in the future! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@PHsRailwayVideos]

I learned something new today too - that people say 'small things amuse small minds.'

[@SamsTrains]

haha, whatever floats your boat!! ;D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@ouchieduck2459]

now heres a fun counter experiment, do the reverse.... Whats the largest loco you can feasibally get round each of the curves?

[@MistaMatthews]

Yes!!

[@SamsTrains]

haha yeah!! I'm thinking about doing something similar in the future - maybe!! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@andrewknights1304]

Hi Sam. Great fun. I did, some years back, have an exhibition layout "Yarmouth Quay" based on the Great Yarmouth Tramway. It was 2ft by 4ft with 8ins radius curve, inset into the road. Admittedly the track was all hand laid and there was some(?) gauge widening! But a Mainline 03 could do it with all six wheels flanged. Buffer lock? Yes hand knitted wire couplers, fully automatic, ex office paper clips provided the wire. The layout did many shows over five years before being sold on. Even went to the Great Yarmouth show once....

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks very much Andrew, that sounds fantastic - 8 inch curves must have been very extreme, great to hear it turned out well though!! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@coreywiedenfeld3689]

Love this. I am a toy train nut so tighter curves are pretty normal. Also like seeing what people can do with micro layouts in these smaller scales. It may have been said elsewhere in the comments but the next step I think is adding a couple carriages (that is what you guys call them, right?) and seeing what radius they can make. Toy train hint: typically our couplers are attached to the trucks, not the car frame. Just a thought if you wanted to take it a step further! Cheers!

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks Corey - yeah some of those layouts are amazing! Great idea - would be great to try some carriages! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@stephensmith799]

There’s a formerly rail connected industrial estate in Hayes (west London). The remaining curved tracks are extremely tight… even tighter than those shown here. There was also some extreme curves on a pier in Greenhythe, Kent

[@ivovanzon164]

From the CAD era: R1 is a 360mm radius, and the minimum you can do with NEM close couplers. Pre-CAD you did have 250mm radius as official starter set track, but you are limited to using non-rigid couplers. You can do tighter curves... Cut the connection between the sleepers down to the minimum and use one piece of flex for the whole test track so that you don't have to use fishplates. And yes I did try the R250 in an undulating circle... Fleischmann tinplate can drive on two wheels

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks a lot for sharing Ivo, yes coupling is definitely one of the biggest issues! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@davidtucker8724]

Yes I have built a micro layout during this lockdown with sharp curves using bachmann Flexi track. I use the hattons Andrew Barclay and a hornby sentinel and they have no problems

[@SamsTrains]

Fantastic David, that sounds like a cracking project too! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@olivertaylor4034]

I like the music you used, adds a clean, modern touch to the video!

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks so much - glad you liked it Oliver! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@1982james111]

I'm glad you took my recommendation on this 👌🏻 I'd like to see how tight you could get a larger loco to go 👍🏻 I managed a 180 within a 400mm space infront of my TV for the Christmas train with wagons also on tow 👌🏻

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks a lot James - and that's a great idea, I'd love to try that!! Good suggestion mate! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@1982james111]

@@SamsTrains on my tight setup I kept the connections away from the turns using 900mm long lengths of Flexi track. In your video you could of used that and not have to worry about joining anywhere. Can't wait for the larger locos 😉👌🏻

[@nigelericogden3200]

Exactly right Sam ... I have the second radius curves ... but I can never fix them to a baseboard due to lack of space ... definitely food for thought .... Crazy !!

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks Nigel - yeah that's it, worth remembering!! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@lukehughes6094]

Great video sam. Amazing choice of locomotive. Can not wait to see more experiments with different classes of locomotive.

[@Stepney_Studios]

Yep

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks so much Luke - more experiments coming up soon! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@Plokman040]

Industrial Locomotive designs were often very small, strong, and tough. The Beckton Gas works were on a realistic size tight like -3 radius but the engines had wheel bases just long enough to cope. They also had Dumb Buffers (which are not sprung really they are just wood blocks at the front) this and chain couplings gave them that skill. But even so that was a great test models do not always do as well as prototype.

[@AMOGLES99]

As a side hobby I'm into tram models myself. Trams run around very tight curves in the prototype, for example turning into a side street in a normal street setting. Some trams run around 15m radius in the prototype which would be 197mm in OO scale or 182mm in HO scale . I think back in Victorian days there were 9m curves, which would be 118mm in OO or 104mm in HO scale. There is a company in the USA called Electric Avenue who supply curves with something like sub 20cm radius. I have bought some but haven't yet got around to testing them. The tracks come as a kit and are a bit fiddly to assemble. From what some people on the internet forums advise me, I need to spread the gauge somewhat to make that possible. So I'm really surprised to see you do this with fixed gauge track and not getting derailments (apart from that one dodgy rail joint)

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks for sharing Ray, I've heard about some of those trams, would love to try some! Many thanks for all the info, Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@the_failed_states]

Great content as usual Sam... Couple of points - three actually: 1) Hornby will advertise the safest radius so that irate customers don't inundate them when Evening Star refuses to go around a right angle 2) You only needed the one length of flex track, it might have been better without the straights or the fishplates - I'm sure that's been pointed out 3) I really like 0-4-0s on dockside or factory layouts. Buffer lock should dictate the minimum radius - not tension-lock couplers which are an offence to nature

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks very much for sharing Matt! Yes absolutely right on 1, that must by why they do it! Appreciate the tips too, thanks mate! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@uniquely.mediocre1865]

If you could redo this experiment with locos pulling trains, experiment with coaches, freight, 4 wheeled, 6 wheeled, 2 axel bogies, and 3 axel bogies (im sure the 6 wheeled and 3 axle bogies won't work). Also if you could do variations of the double driving axel locos (2-4-0, 4-4-0, 2-4-2, and maybe even single wheelers 4-2-0, 2-2-0, 2-2-2, 4-2-2) These radius' are gonna be amazing if you want narrow mountain routes or light railways. Technically you could get rolling stock around that -3 radius turn as long as its being pushed and uncoupled, definitely interesting things to use in a layout

[@SamsTrains]

Great idea! It'd be fun to try some other combinations on this - good point! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@uniquely.mediocre1865]

@@SamsTrains ill keep my eyes peeled for the next video then, I really enjoyed this one

[@andywalker6]

Love this video, I've been working on a Layout and was trying to get 6", but sadly buffer lock intervened. My working test bed is 7.5" radius or 190mm and what you can get running round is amazing. I usually use Hornby standard couplings with only one coupling hook. I am still testing and haven't tried an 0-6-0, but 0-4-0's run great and you can even run full length coaches if you modify the bogies the end stops on the bogies. After modifying the container and removing a coupling or two I got my Coca Cola train to run round it!

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks a lot Andrew - yeah bufferlock is a bugger isn't it? Had quite a bit on my O gauge layout too, where the curves are too tight. Thanks for sharing mate, Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@tomjenssen7486]

Good fun and quite amazing how tight the curves can be. I had to make some really tight curves for my Christmas village track. The 0-4-0 makes the curves but I had to cut the buffers off the trucks and remove the hook from the couplers (replacing with a small loop of wire). I just didn't have the space to make the baseboard any deeper...but it works :) And don't even get me started on the TV set layout. I managed to squeeze 19ft of N gauge track inside an old TV set....lol. All the best mate :) Tom

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks a lot Tom - yeah that's the issue isn't it? Trying to couple something! At least I know what to do if I try this again - thanks mate! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@railwayjade]

That’s pretty awesome, Sam. You should check out Budget Model Railways - they also squeeze models onto tight track on some of their layouts.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks a lot Jade - yeah I've been hearing about that, I'll have to check it out! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@a.r.productions]

I just want to say how grateful I am for this video! I am sick and tired of the snobs who swear that you can't build a layout with curves less than 2nd radius. I'm currently building a layout with 24cm radius track and I can run multiple 0-4-0's and a few 0-6-0s :D Great video Sam very informative and funny :)

[@SamsTrains]

haha thanks mate - yep, that's absolutely not true it seems! I'd love to build a layout with curves like that now! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@LauriraYT]

Reminds me of a very old lego train set I have which uses a few metal rods between the tracks. The contacts on the train were so worn that it would struggle to drive even on straight track, though. Good times.

[@SamsTrains]

haha everyone's been saying that actually!! :O Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@fredtedstedman]

My son had one of those push along wooden railways and that has curves like that !

[@SamsTrains]

haha yeah I've seen those - they're really cool too! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@ewanmcgregor146]

Hey Sam, another fun little video! Those 0 Radius or -1 Radius would be perfect for industrial or dockyard type layouts! Wouldn’t recommend trying to run express passenger trains over them, though! Modeling Japan in N using Kato Unitrack, my smallest radius is 315 mm.... But I run full length (16 cars) Shinkansen at high speed on super-elevated (banked) track down to 381 mm radius! Kato’s smallest Unitrack curve is 117 mm.... But that is really intended for 0-4-0s, 4 wheelers & trams! They even have 150 mm radius points....

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks very much Ewan, yeah they totally would actually... definitely no good for express work though, lol! Thanks for sharing - sounds good!! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@bluskidu]

I went to Check online because it’s my birthday, and I find this! Great video Sam hope you do more in the future! 🚂😄

[@SamsTrains]

haha awesome!! Happy birthday my friend!! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@bluskidu]

Thank you Sam! 😃

[@danhudson4614]

Totally trying this, not to the extreme but for a smaller layout this is genius!.

[@SamsTrains]

haha sounds good Dan - all the best with it! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@Sodor156]

There's no way an 0-6-0 or a tender engine would make these kind of curves (maybe 0 and -1st but not -2nd and -3rd). Would've been entertaining to see those try and make it around those bends though. ;)

[@SamsTrains]

Yeah you're right - it would have been fun to try an 0-6-0 though! ;D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@ArcadiaJunctionHobbies]

People would be amazed at how tight a radius OO and HO can get around. Even some bo-bo and co-co locos can get around amazingly tight radius. Alas there is an issue that causes problems for UK/Irish and European models on micro-layouts. Buffer Locking on even short wagons. US stock which like the prototypes have no buffers and avoid this issue. Another great vid Sam.

[@StandardGoose]

A bogied locomotive, like a bo-bo can get round anything that an 0-4-0 can get round, since it is effectively two 0-4-0s when you think about it.

[@SamsTrains]

I certainly was amazed! I'd love to try some other locos/wagons on these curves!! :O Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@nicolaiitchenko7610]

I have used Hornby 0-4-0 units as the basis for a freelance 0n30 urban tram system for several years on 6 inch (153mm) radius hand laid (soldered onto copper clad sleepers) curves set into street running layout built for a Tram Fan some years ago. Might suggest an internal rail system inside an industrial complex would be an interesting show piece. At the time, Hornby locomotives, like most others also, had the "cookie cutter" style flanges and never caused a hint of a problem on the street corners. Hand made turnouts also had nil issues. I am told that the newer, more modern flanges that are now available, are also not causing any grief on the layout.

[@SamsTrains]

That's fantastic Frank, I've heard about that being done before, they're fairly decent chassis aren't they? That certainly would be interesting - I'd love to build something like that one day! Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@JonatanGronoset]

-3rd radius is about what I use for my H0e (009) bookcase layout, the diameter of that is just 250mm and is the smallest the 0-4-0 and bogie coaches will allow to remain coupled. But I have seen people make nano layouts on something a small as a CD in that scale and a loco going around it, which is incredible! I'll email you some pictures of my tiny layout.

[@SamsTrains]

Wow really?! That's crazy! Wow really, in that scale?! Bonkers!! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@sosig1341]

-3rd radius is basically a roller coaster

[@SamsTrains]

haha pretty much - or a dark ride or something! ;D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@icyfox2561]

This is a video that has helped me design new tracks

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks so much - that's good to hear!! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@ShredderLivesOn]

Budget Model Railways has done a couple of small oval layouts. His first was just 18 inches wide with passing loops and sidings. And he later did one 3 inches shorter. He also did one that was just 26 inches wide, and found that he could run a Lima Deltic and a Hornby 9F.

[@SamsTrains]

Yeah I heard about that, I'm going to check it out - sounds great! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@TRTX-em8kl]

My grandad said that he had a freight siding for the factory he worked at for which only 0-4-0 steam locos were supposed to run. One day a main line loco was driven into the siding to pick up some wagons and it spread the rails! See Budget Model Railways for layouts using right curves and adjusting couplings. It means you can make a micro layout of you don't have the space.

[@SamsTrains]

Ooh cool! I'd love to see a layout based on one of those - cool!! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@derrickhale3125]

When I was a lad Traing trains ran on 13 1/2" raduiss curves. Hornby Dublo on 15". The sharpest curve on any standard gauge line in the UK was Gotham Curve on the Cromford and High Peak Railway at 55 yds (2 1/2 chains). The same railway also had the steepest adhesion worked incline - Hopton Incline - at 1in 14. Only certain 0-6-0 locomotives could negotiate Gotham Curve and the minimum radius curve stated for most mainline locomotives was 5 chains. There would have been sharper curves in some industrial settings. Food for thought - Gotham Curve works out at 660mm radius in 4mm to the foot scale. 5 chains and wider 1320mm and more.

[@thomaslord756]

Nice one Sam. I've seen people run Smokey Joe and class 08's on an 9" radius full curve. So 18" (457mm) diameter. You would also get better results with a longer piece of flexi track and having the joints away from the curve. For example, bend a full length of flexi track over 180 degrees, clamp each end, pin the curve in place and then release the clamps and pin the remaining track as straight. This will smooth out the curve nicely. Got to say You've inspired me to make a micro layout with a 4'x2' board I've cot spare, lol. Cheers, Tom :)

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks for sharing Thomas - yeah you're absolutely right actually - certainly wouldn't have done it this way if I was building them permanently... worked okay for a quick demo though! That sounds fantastic - good luck if you go for it!! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@DillonCatterson]

Almost 100k Sam you deserve it so much!

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks so much mate, that's really kind of you! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@PhillipBrodginski]

This is exactly what these small wheelbase locomotives were designed for. Some dock yards had seriously tight curves, originally designed for the likes of horses. Usually they'd just have a narrow gauge line in that case, but some places wanted to just offload or load ships directly from the regular rolling stock.

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks Philip - I'd love to see some curves like this in real life!! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@cadenchristiansen3553]

sam i love your videos i am been very sad and depressed as of resent and your videos keep me going and keep me from hurting myself thank you sam

[@SamsTrains]

Hey Caden, sorry to hear you're not doing too well mate, glad the videos are helping a bit though. Chin up my friend! Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@stephantrinkle6449]

I had a ho guage layout on an old door (900mm) 3 circular loops inside of each other. As you can imagine the inside loop was pretty tight. 040 engines will do anything as well as 2 axel wagons, the challenge is coupling. Hornby couplers can be made to go tighter by removing one hook, so joins are made by the one remaining hook instead of 2. Or switch to kadee's and use long enough shanks to give room for the buffers on the inside of the corners. But you will have trouble reversing long trains at high speeds :-)

[@SamsTrains]

Sounds great Stephan - thanks a lot for sharing, quite incredible really! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@garlandward4372]

I actually had a layout with curves like the -3rd radius. It was a 4x8 foot HO scale layout, and I had a junk yard on the layout in about a 10" square spot with a train running around it. I used a Bachmann "ben" engine from their thomas lineup which I painted and put a regular locomotive face on.

[@SamsTrains]

Wow really?! That must have been epic - I'd love to build something like that! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@АждарАлиев-я3р]

Thank you very much, Sam! Your experiments are so fascinating!

[@SamsTrains]

It's a pleasure mate, glad you enjoy them! :D Thanks for watching - Sam :)

[@NotAnAmerican]

Smokey goes round my christmas tree in a 20cm radius track. great experiment, looking forward to building my layout dockyard with this small formfactor

[@HarrisHandle]

Wow just wow fantastic job Smokey jo

[@SamsTrains]

I know right!! Well done Smokey! :D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@highbrookendmodelrailway]

Very interesting video once again, nice to know that Hornby's little engines are so capable. I can relate to 7:26, sometimes I just lose it too when doing something as ridiculous as this! You can't help yourself! 🤣

[@SamsTrains]

Thanks mate - yes it was fun to learn how capable these are! haha yep, can't be helped! ;D Thanks for watching, Sam :)

[@PebProductions46]

Just the other day I was watching a video by Budget Model Railways where they had a whole OO layout on something like 4'x1.5'. They only used one coupling hook per coupling and I think they had to shave down a few buffers but they had all of the Hornby 0-4-0s and even an 08 shunter running on it.

[@SamsTrains]

Ooh awesome, I'd love to see that too - I'll check it out! I'd be interested to try and get the wagons to work, would be great fun! Thanks for watching, Sam :)