What do GUILLIMAN and the LION think of each other? | Warhammer 40K Investigations

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0:00 Guilliman and the Lion
2:57 Imperium Secundus
11:38 Their Final Meeting
15:23 Godblight
20:49 The Fallen Angels
24:25 An Awkward First Encounter
30:41 Guilliman's Thoughts on the Lion
34:40 The Lion's Thoughts on Guilliman
40:15 What I Think Will Happen

[@patray860]

I love these discussions. You did a great job. So much of what fans in this universe is almost word of mouth and what we think is cannon or lore is just something propagated by word of mouth and not actually supported. So I like how you break it down and reference. Great job. Next up you should tackle Alpharius lore and how he wasn’t last found

[@SandmanofTerra]

That's a great shout, I really enjoyed his Primarch novel.

[@patray860]

@@SandmanofTerra as did I it was crazy to learn he was found on Terra and raised and trained by Malcador. How he skulked around the palace etc. it makes the finding those Alpha legion sleeper cell under the palace in the final books make sense

[@surtrpicks]

Possible to know where the information on the Lion and the Warhawk being close was sourced from? Faves so that intrigues me.

[@surtrpicks]

Enjoyed immensely

[@SandmanofTerra]

@@surtrpicks horus heresy book 9. Crusade

[@jameshewitt4706]

Throughout "Son of the Forest" Lion was basically saying things like "I do not LIKE Guilliman, but man do i wish he was here right now! Not only would his organizational skills and multitasking be SO helpful, but I'll also have one of my brothers with me. I wouldnt be alone."

[@UnRu1eD]

Not necessarily true…. That is conflicted to a degree considering they both forgave each other and Guilliman said he has nothing but love and upmost Respect for the Lion. They had their differences like any brothers do. But in the end, each other is all they have against the terrors.

[@vagabond4576]

You guys are basically saying the same thing. Too many people out here disagreeing for no reason but just to do so. @@UnRu1eD

[@Hewrin88]

​@@vagabond4576welcome to the Internet friend 😂

[@PrivacyTermsCopyriii]

@@vagabond4576 I don' think they're saying the same thing at all! in fact, there are a number of both obvious and subtle differences between their two perspectives. Gotcha.... ;)

[@williamsmith7422]

Guillimans organizational skills and multitasking skills are amazing, I'm sure he will make someone a very lovely wife 🎉

[@flamingmuffin666]

The Lion's and Guilliman's antagonism to each other is VERY foundational to each other's philosophies, it is part of their world view and how the other is incongruent. Roboute is entirely focused on the system, his goal is to solve the paradox of an efficient bureaucracy. This requires having a place for everything, a system to account for everything, no random variability that falls outside of the tolerance of the system. If one layer of the system is insufficient for accounting, then a new protocol/subsystem/plan is layered on top. The problems, stresses and losses come and go, but the system remains. The Lion is more like an arbiter, an ultimate authority within a system, but not bound by the system. "Loyalty is its own reward" is an excellent summary statement of this, it is a person who doesn't care how he is perceived, doesn't care about where he fits, there is only the singular task of validating loyalty. The Lion only cares about doing what is needed to achieve that. There's a key concept within loyalty; doing what is wanted vs doing what is needed. A system is an approximation of what the loyal task is, it turns the loyal task into a protocol, where the system produces tasks or requirements that are wanted, and those wants align with what is needed. A well designed system should produce near perfect alignment between what is wanted and what is needed. But it is still a proxy, not what is wanted in a direct sense. What happens when that alignment isn't the case? What happens what what is needed isn't aligned with what is wanted? This is the Lion's purpose, to do what is needed, when it is needed, when there isn't a luxury of time or resources for the system to develop to account for the problem. Such a position existing is like an ever-present spectre telling Roboute that his purpose will fail, that Roboute can build the perfect system, yet the arbiter is still needed. This is foundationally unsettling without being antagonistic, its a serious philosophical divide. What Roboute fails to grasp is that The Emperor designed one son to be the system builder and one son to be the aribiter, and that was His system. From Lion's view, when he was informed of what happened to his Legion: " ‘Guilliman,’ Lion El’Jonson hisses, his grief abruptly overtaken by blistering rage. ‘Never content with the work of others! He even wanted to improve on the designs of our father! " If Lion is an arbiter, then Roboute categorically dismissed the purpose of the Dark Angels, stripped them of their role and function, all to be under Guilliman's system, with Guilliman's view of what their function is. Guilliman had a massive oversight in ignoring that the function of the Lion and the Dark Angels is to be outside Guilliman's system. This divide is why Lion and Guilliman's dynamic is so interesting. To further contrast, both can build systems, Lion being martial focused and Guillian being governing focused, they both can build government and military systems. But there is a divide between them: - Guilliman is about having one whole system, one multi-tool if you will, that can be applied to everything. One perfect tool. - Lion's systems are about having access to multiple specialized tools, to always have the perfect tool for the job, or close enough to still be effective. The Hexagrammatom is the distillation of this, a system to deliver the tool needed for the job. Roboute multitasks for one perfect conceptual ideal. The Lion hyper-focuses to have ready access to an array of imperfect, but effective ideals.

[@1rotzy]

When he met Dante, he said that you reminded me of your brother Guillemen, and the Lion's reaction is wonder that he isn't alone. These two may not have liked each other in the past, but one is in a literal depression, and the other is jumping all across the Imperium duct tapping it together. When they meet, I wouldn't be surprised if they go into a hidden room, hug, and cry about how hard its been.

[@SandmanofTerra]

Would be a hell of a scene

[@thenson1Halo]

I see it like any real family. You'll often have siblings or other family members that you don't really LIKE, but you do LOVE them. My brother is basically my best friend, but I do have family like that.

[@russellhawkins366]

They will be the blondest and so finest of friends. The family resemblance speaks volumes.

[@aditghifari5039]

both basically like elder guy hugging each other after their family pass out

[@BIGESTblade]

Imagine if Bjorn challenges Lion to honor duel and Lion decides that it's unfair and goes to find Leman just to fight him.

[@njp4340]

That would be so lion.

[@thenson1Halo]

Now that you mention it, as old and somewhat insane as Bjorn is, if anyone knows where Leman Russ might be it is him. It could easily be a secret he was keeping for his primarch that he has forgotten over the last 10,000 years. An honor duel with the Lion could be just the thing to bring that memory forth. Maybe he would even unknowingly yell it out, something like "Try going to X and my father will deal with you himself, cub!". During one of his long hibernations even an important memory like that could be lost as his sanity slips.

[@BIGESTblade]

@@thenson1Halo That would be the mother of all convenient councidences.

[@minkernator]

I can imagine them going off in a buddy cop/off couple story to find him :)

[@verigone2677]

Bjorn: First Son of the Emperor, I am Bjorn the Fellhanded and I will honor the name of my Gene Father Leman Russ, Prepare yourself or die. Just a Bjorn is about to land his blow the Lion catches The Fellhanded's blow by the wrist and they Forest Walk to a strange Daemon world where Leman is gathering Lost Spacemarines from failed warp jumps, or redeemed from being tricked into serving chaos. Leman Russ is now Helping Ferrous Manus the Primarch of the Lost and the Damned. The Lion loses in an Honor Duel with Russ, they hug it out and all three return where Guilliman slaps the shit out of Russ before a group hug with the bros... or something like that, need something nice and loveable about these killers before we start to shatter the whole thing again.

[@kingbaldwiniv5409]

People also really underestimate the earned relationship between Russ and the Lion.

[@SandmanofTerra]

That's true, Russ says all is good between them at the end of his primarch novel

[@ghannos9869]

I've said it before. At first, The Emperor made The Lion. Then, he realized he better tone the next batch down a little bit.

[@eastbow6053]

sanguinius is perfect QwQ i would let him drink me dry

[@Archon3960]

Maybe He realized that He would need diplomacy. 😎 That, or he did shove 20 Warp gods into mortal bodies to make the Primarchs and He had no choice on the matter.

[@Scottoest]

I still just think it's silly that Imperium Secundus is considered such unspeakable treachery by everyone, to the point that the history of it must be hidden in shame. It was a logical contingency plan to gather loyalist forces when they thought Terra was lost, and they immediately abandoned it the moment they had reason to believe Big E was still alive again. Guilliman didn't even claim the seat of power for himself - they thrust it upon Sanguinius, who himself didn't want it. And Sanguinius then went on to valiantly defend Terra and board the Vengeful Spirit. So.. what exactly? Hawk Boy was also a heretic then? A "thief"? It's dopey.

[@andrewbaer2820]

Wasn’t there a scene where Malcador and the Emperor are playing regicide and they’re talking about the primarchs, where the Emperor says that Robute is out the building empires because that’s what he does. I read that as he wasn’t really upset about it

[@dumnor]

@@andrewbaer2820 I guess everyone needs a hobby. It is also nice that dad approves Robutes.

[@Archon3960]

I would see some inquisitors throthing at the mouth and shouting *_"I knew it!!"_* when learning about it, but aside from that, not much more. B/

[@Knights_Oath]

The Lion has a very diffrent personality now compared to 30k. His more brash and prideful nature has become more level headed and logical. A perfect match for Bobby G and if The Lion ever gets to Terra, it will be interesting to see what happens when he goes to see Big E.

[@foolslayer9416]

I kind of want to see Bobby G and the Lion get into an argument, then Guilliman sighs and goes, "Brother, can I speak with you in private for a second?" And then after Bobby G pulls the Lion aside, he just punches Lion in the face and just goes off on the Lion.

[@hitbycars]

Yeah and when he finds out Guilliman is still around and alive, you can almost FEEL the palpable relief. He mentions not being alone, but I don't think the being-alone thing would matter if the other Primarch was someone more aloof or indifferent, but Lion knows Guilliman; he knows what he is and what he is capable, and I can easily imagine that upon hearing he's both around and doing his best to save their father's imperium, he probably gets a lot of solace from that. If ANY of this brothers were to come back at humanity's darkest hour and try to hold everything together through the sheer force of their ability and will, it would be Guilliman who'd likely have the best shot (Dorn in 2nd place), and the Lion likely knows that.

[@cassiusaureliusanima]

​@@foolslayer9416I imagine the Lion feeling the punch coming but just staying like: Let's give this to my lil bro, he needs validation. Otherwise, it is going to be embarrassing explaining the whooping I would give him xddd

[@foolslayer9416]

@@cassiusaureliusanima It would actually be funny if it just devolved into a sibling fist fight. Where the two primarchs are just rolling around just exchanging punches.

[@cassiusaureliusanima]

@@foolslayer9416 hahahaha guilliman then laughing it off and the lion sees the moment to strike but remembers that time with Leman and he just chuckles. It would be amazing, not gonna lie

[@Scottoest]

I picture the Lion all ready to chew Guilliman out for the state of the Imperium or making himself Lord Commander, only to see how tired and depressed Guilliman looks and realize that he didn't want any of this, and indeed he feels like he's woken up to a nightmare just like The Lion. They're basically the only two people alive in the Imperium who understand what has been lost in the last ten millennia. I'm sure their personalities will provide some sandpaper over time, but I could honestly even see Guilliman shed a tear because he finally has a brother to speak to again, and someone who understands how he feels. It will be super interesting. I don't think the two collectively having Big E's sword and shield is accidental symbolism either.

[@trevormcguire6984]

Both thier joytoy figures are gonna get along nicely on my shelf. Lol

[@LinkiePup]

38:53 I think this is also a nice parallel to when Dante met the Silent King. Those same feelings that the Lion felt is what Dante felt seeing Szarekh wearing a similar deathmask of Sanguinius.

[@KevinJohnson-cv2no]

I've always said that G Man & The Lion becoming compatible with each other to a degree none of the other Primarchs experienced is just a matter of time; and I say it because of their complimentary natures. Ultimately, both are hardlined pragmatists before anything else; willing to take the objective steps necessary to reach the given goal. Both are fairly adaptable, though each in their own way, and they take the reality of the situation for what it is then proceed with the most effective action possible. Ultimately, Lion will get over his distrust of Guillimans intentions (if he hasn't already) and G Man will get over his nitpicking of Lion's mannerisms and methods (if he hasn't already) simply because they recognize the sheer necessity of each other for victory's sake. That said, G Man ruling as Lord Commander with The Lion spearheading a new imperial campaign fueled by Dark Age Weaponry is about the best thing the Imperium could hope for right now. If there was ever two Primarchs that needed to come back, it was these two.

[@logandelaharpe6362]

If only Dorn was around to help defend what the imperium still has

[@_NutcasE_]

Long story short ultramarines and DA are the complimentary legions not Word bearers and ultramarines. Both are jacks of all trade key difference being one has selective focus and another spread focus. Lion is a general who will get a task and gets it done. Guilliman is a general that focuses on the whole and trys to keep it intact. This id why Guilliman and his geneline work for statesmanship and defense, while Lion and his geneline work better for offense and military. Which is why they are the best first primarchs to return. Now you have a statesman to fix it and a general to fight for it, guilliman has more time to build and Lion can focus on his goal to defend humanity.

[@antonkovalenko364]

​@@logandelaharpe6362I've wondered for decades now what would happen if Dorn showed back up with both hands intact. That would open a whole other can of worms, wouldn't it? 🤔🤔🤔

[@maianoguillaume]

We need more Salamanders Primarchness in this Primarchness Rebirth.

[@edwells4769]

They really are perfect for each other. Distrust to a degree is potent in any workplace to spur proper planning. Perfect for defeating the tyranids. A monster hunter and supercomputer

[@yormarmar3088]

I hope the next primarch to come is Jagathai Khan 😭😭😭

[@SandmanofTerra]

Id love to just find out what he's been doing!

[@sebbonxxsebbon6824]

No, Leman Russ!

[@jwill540]

No, Rogal Dorn.

[@thomasspinola7417]

No, Ferrus Manus.

[@Joker863x]

No, Clonegrim

[@tobyharvey6040]

Supporting your idea of DA/SW team up to go find Russ. My brother was telling me how Son of the Forest had a lot of parallels with Arthurian legend. Arthur comes to a ruined fortress, finds a grievously wounded fisher king, who sends him on the quest for the holy grail to save him. What did Leman Russ go to find? The Tree of Life. Same legend, different versions. Calling it now: SW/DA team up to find the thing to resurrect the Emperor. Maybe something to do with Valdor returning too because that’s a thing as well isn’t it

[@starhammer5247]

The Tree of Life is probably Isha, so that would give the Elves some new shit.

[@budtloper1]

All I want is a unit of loyal war hounds from before the Nails to arrive in current setting, warp time Flux type thing, and wage their own crusade on chaos.

[@jrr7031]

Im sure Trayzen got a few in his library.

[@eichler721]

I see the Lion being the Crusading knight leading Legions of Astartes to crush the Traitors and redeem his son's, save his brothers sons and protect humanity. This will allow Guilliman to start rebuilding and remain in the wings for when things like the Tyranids show up to deal with them.

[@silvercitytube]

The reunion of Gulliman and Lion in 40k is my most expected scene in the current setting, since they both "grow up" a lot

[@icdansheep1873]

Roboute doesn't want Lion as emperor because he's too secretive? The Emperor must be laughing his ass off

[@Archon3960]

At least, Lion did learn to understand that he's not always in the right. Guilliman always knew he may not be. 😎

[@BriarLeaf00]

From what we saw in The Beast series, there's a good chance Vulkan isnt the same Primarch when he comes 10k years later. Hell, he seemed pretty jaded and almost despondent by the end of The Seige. Really bummed we wont be getting any Salamanders codex supplements, pretty much 98% of Salamanders lore year on year. +sigh+

[@SandmanofTerra]

Yeah it would be nice to get some more sallies development. From the last supplement (8th) it looked like they were reasonably close to the next treasure

[@KevinJohnson-cv2no]

Salamanders are the main Astartes present in the Pariah Nexus show, has pretty good (bordering on VERY good) animation and they are portrayed accurately

[@BriarLeaf00]

@@KevinJohnson-cv2no Awesome Im waiting for them all to release so I can binge them over and over for a month.

[@notribadsvault]

He’d probably be less jaded if he discovered a few of his non-demonic brothers walking around. Vulkan needs hugs too sometimes

[@bauerleinjohn]

@@BriarLeaf00there’s only three episodes unfortunately and the last one just released. So get binging

[@TheAndrain]

And here I thought Corvus and Vulcan's roadtrip was bad ass. Lion and the Wolves going to pick up Papa Wolf would be AMAZING!

[@Timasion]

I do not think the scene in Ruinstorm will be the last time the Lion and Roboute meet. The Lion makes it to Terra at some point after Horus' death and before his return to Caliban. It would be incredible if the Lion is on Terra and, somehow, misses meeting Roboute.

[@SandmanofTerra]

I totally agree, that's actually something I talk about later on in the video. Sorry there's a bit of a break aha, I will edit it down

[@LovelyCenturibear]

He really has mellowed. Don't believe he even wants to be warmaster/Lord Solar anymore, if offered. That being said, i sincerely do hope, that he puts the Inquisition to the sword.

[@ThatGuy-bh9qh]

He might become Guillimans personal "inquisitor"

[@tjoverton7581]

It’s odd seeing people say primarchs should attack the inquisition when the inquisition only exits cause primarchs turned traitor

[@ghannos9869]

Yeah, but fuck em

[@user-yq3fz9ch5q]

​​@@tjoverton7581helsreach The Celestial Lions🤷‍♂️

[@tjoverton7581]

@@user-yq3fz9ch5q sure there are individual inquisitors and groups of them that do horrible things like the ones who ordered their chapter master getting taken out But even individual and groups of dark angels blood angels etc do horrible things The dark angels attacked terra looking for cypher lol taking out loyal members of the imperium even a custodian Should the lion wipe out all his genesons and the Great angels genesons cause of the horrible things some of them have done?

[@Tarorc79]

The Kharn captured by Darkeldars.. Naw dog.. they dont have the speed for that.

[@PlayNiceFolks]

Free-form Warhammer discussion is something I needed in my listening schedules.

[@Knights_Oath]

After all the crap Vulkan went through, it's clear he has severe PTSD. Unless they retcon him being a Perpetual, he is still out there. But it's clear he can't or just does not want to assist The Imperium.

[@undercovertakodachi4301]

i wouldn't blame him, the current imperium is miles and miles away from his father's envision so. I don't blame him for hating an Empire rotten to its core.

[@S_047]

​@@undercovertakodachi4301sometimes to get rid of the rot... One must burn it away

[@nol6409]

The Lion aged for the same reason Primarchs and Astartes have scars. They heal but they don't regenerate back completely. Trying to heal up from the fight took its toll and instead of just scarring he aged too.

[@Pragabond]

Was that stated or is that more of a head canon thing? I just assumed he aged because he wasn't in stasis like Guilleman was. I always assumed even the Primarchs did in fact age even if its absurdly slow and 10k years is enough to show some of those years

[@antonkovalenko364]

​@@PragabondMy thought as well.

[@Pragabond]

@@antonkovalenko364To be fair I could see it going either way honestly. Healing does shorten your lifespan/result in defects so it actually could be that or a mix of both. A personal theory I like is that he's been awake for a hot minute he just ended up in the warp or teleporting all over the universe trying to get a grasp on his forestwalk ability. Both because the Lion would just be so much cooler with experience to go with the wrinkles AND because I've always found it weird loyalist primarchs probably have less lived experience and years than most of their sons do lol

[@MiddleAgedGuy73]

I wish Josh Reynolds would either come back to BL or allow someone to take over the Fulgrim Clone storyline.

[@user-yq3fz9ch5q]

Isn't the clone with Trazyn in his museum?

[@MiddleAgedGuy73]

@user-yq3fz9ch5q yes. There are ways to move past that but Josh Reynolds left BL and other authors aren't touching it. Josh would either need to come back or ask another BL author to take over the storyline for anything to happen with that storyline. Josh is writing other books now and seems happy, no idea what's up for him in the future.

[@user-yq3fz9ch5q]

@@MiddleAgedGuy73 thanks, it's a shame he left, but glad he's still writing.

[@Cryodrake]

I just want Gman and lion to hug it out so much.

[@derekbidelman2442]

They don't like each other but,they respect each other I believe.

[@lokisigmund3028]

I've been waiting for hours to drive into this video. You're content is so precise and supported by references. It's really some of the best WH40k content on KZbin. Thank you so much for your videos!

[@SandmanofTerra]

legend! Glad you enjoyed it!

[@jackn.2388]

I have been looking for something like this. A good deep dive on the dynamic yet complex relationship between these two living Primarchs. Great insight!

[@channyh403]

I think I am enjoying these videos as much as you enjoy doing them :) I am fairly new to Warhammer 40K and just going down the rabbit hole with all the lore and there is so. much. content. I LOVE IT. I appreciate the time you take to do this and I will continue to enjoy these videos. Thank you.

[@SandmanofTerra]

Glad you like them!

[@ChopperMeir]

Same here. I'm new to it as well and my KZbin is now just 40k lore, can't believe I waited so long to get into such a wonderful deep universe.

[@Greenielid]

In all seriousness mate , your one of my favourite content creators. Keep up the amazing work please. An a thank you for taking time to make these .

[@MiddleAgedGuy73]

An absolutely brilliant and insightful video. Brought up some points of view I hadn't considered.

[@Drew17181.]

Keep doing this format. I really enjoy listening to these. ❤️

[@Korsav0]

The next Primarch has to be the wild card. 3 people come into mind Corvus, Jaghatai, Or Leman.

[@cynicalpsycho5574]

Just earned a new sub here mate! You speak so well and i can hear the passion and knowledge radiating from you, gets me pumped to waste another couple hours on Baldermort losing myself in the lore again haha I am dying for Jaghatai to be next!

[@SandmanofTerra]

Thanks so much dude!

[@tudorinbogdan240]

Lion: You look old. Guilliman: I feel old.

[@eby5456]

I cannot wait until Grimnar kicks the bucket and Bjorn crosses the Rubicon to lead the Space Wolves through the Wolf Time

[@matt33182]

Sick video man loved it

[@rcford69]

Good work bro!! That was great!!!

[@kasper7574]

prediction, bjorn the fell handed gets stabbed through the chest by the Lion in an honor duel.

[@dickencider104]

I wonder when or if they'll bring my man Vulkan back. I think the galaxy needs a hug

[@thomasspinola7417]

Love your channel man!

[@Teyl1]

Really enjoy your content mate, keep it up!

[@SandmanofTerra]

You legend, appreciate the support!

[@Teyl1]

@@SandmanofTerra you keep making it, and I'll keep watching it. As someone that really enjoys the creators with a strong understanding of the lore/setting and well thought out conclusions about the events happening within, you rank up there with Lutein09. Different presentations, but well presented all the same. I really can't express how enjoyable it is to not get constantly bombarded by beaten to death memes or just unreasonable takes from people that don't have enough context to justify them. It truly makes all the difference for me.

[@LOBricksAndSecrets]

@19:00 I will admit I'm not the biggest lore expert, but I've imagined for a while that when they finally meet it'd be hilarious to see the first thing Lion do is punch his little brother in the face, only to start hugging Robby *immediately afterwards*

[@SandmanofTerra]

I could see that tbf 😂

[@Mantelar]

What’s great about Warhammer is how it envisions people, 30000 years from now, not really changing a bit. Hell, just the fact that the only way you could conceivably unite mankind was the existence of an eternal with near limitless technical knowledge, magical powers, and 30000 years of practical experience, says all it needs to about human nature.

[@michaelhawes1989]

Strength to strength amigo, keep it up! Been here for a while now and I think this move to chatting as opposed to reading a load of info is ace and semi unique to the KZbinrs I watch most often! I find it far more engaging, does make doing the dishes a little harder tho.

[@SandmanofTerra]

Haha! Thanks very much, really appreciate the support

[@JorgenVonStein]

@34:34 - “- but often times better than a master of one.”

[@bidsteak9696]

Wow the thumbnail makes them really look like brothers compared to the other primarchs

[@Blencs]

Great vid👌

[@ElementalShogun]

This is great content you're doing great

[@James-ep2bx]

I think the key factor in their relationship will be respect, as while they may not see eye to eye they both respect each other

[@ogrelaca]

It is an awesome story for the future, Sandman! ❤👏 thank you for your work, brother 😊

[@andrewpapadopoulos5526]

Great job mate! I’ve never been interested in playing the game but I love the lore because of people like yourself. Thank you.

[@jewelrunner7756]

I used to play the game in the 90's.. In 2nd edition!!.. Some people love it for challenge of the game!.. Others for the epic lore!.. Some for the collecting and painting the amazing models!.. Some for a magical blend of it all.. I kinda wish sometimes i still played, always loved the game, i just have no spare time in my life right now.. But that's fine.. Just enjoying the vast universe of lore is enough for me at this point.. It's arguably the best part of the 3 main elements of the hobby.. Without the plot and lore.. Would collecting and playing this game feel so epic, if it didn't have an epic world!.. If you can do, or do nothing else.. The lore for the win!!.. 😂😂❤❤

[@glenncolliver3658]

It's funny how everyone comes to think the term "jack of all trades" is an insult because the end of that quote is "a jack of all trades, a master of none but better than being a master of one." Also quite funny is how Roboutte finds it hard to work with someone who keeps secrets, and yet the emporer kept the most secrets of all.

[@SandmanofTerra]

That's a good point. It may just be me being dense!

[@glenncolliver3658]

@SandmanofTerra not at all. The video was awesome with lots of insightful things to consider for the primarch meeting in the future. You have earned a sub sir!

[@ScottMcMaster-er4xj]

Corax needs to come back from the eye of terror ready to lead the Raven Guard for some revenge against the traitors.

[@anonprada203]

Oh man, a book where Lion goes on a crusade to find Russ would be amaaaaazing

[@willtiffany5409]

Daily reminder that the Lion once told Guilliman that he would "put my theoretical fist through your practical face" during an argument that Sanguinius was sitting in on

[@granknight]

"HE DID WHAT,WITH A WHAT? GUILLIMAAAAÀNNN" 🤣

[@Lightblessins]

the lion and guilly need to make a pilgrimage to the the golden sarcophagus

[@robsykes1491]

Brings to mind something from Unremembered Empire. RB said "any loyal eon..."

[@PartStupid]

18:50 - I agree. I think they will embrace in some way. They both share so much now, they were alone and now are not, they both miss their brothers first and foremost Sanguinius, and they both want to take the fight to their traitorous brothers. Cannot wait for some war stories with them together.

[@devingendron2287]

37:52 Every time this is brought up: The Lion has AuDHD. As someone with it that is...literally what it's like.

[@jasonparrish8670]

Guilliman: "Blond playboy" Lion el Johnson: "Blond playboy"

[@judsonbates1359]

Rumors from the Warp (Valrak) suggest Leman Russ is the next Primarch coming back.

[@SandmanofTerra]

So Russ is definitely the most likely to return imo, purely from a narrative and financial (given the SW range) pov

[@logandelaharpe6362]

Yet the wolfs have seen a vision of the lion and a lightning bolt returning nothing on russ

[@anedgygundampilot8208]

@@logandelaharpe6362lightning bolt is white scars yes? Do you think The Lion and the Wolves will go looking for The Khan?

[@Xhumed]

Guilliman said "Cypher no cyphing" 21:20

[@joeford5181]

The Lion: WHAT THE HELL!!! Guiliman: Yes.. The Lion: The Khan will roast us

[@shipmate3577]

The next primarch should be Dorn or Jaghati

[@mercy1962]

Everyone forgets the rest of the saying “a jack of all trades is the master of none………but is oftentimes better than the master of one.”

[@jewelrunner7756]

Don't dare apologise for that crazy tangent about Vashtor and the old one's device!!.. I hadn't heard that part of the lore.. That has crazy implications, practically anything could happen in the lore with something like that in play!!.. We could get Horus, Sanguinius or Ferrus or anyone back in the universe and actual game from something like that!.. Crazy potential from that.. Was nice to find all that out!!.. 😂😉👊👊

[@user-yq3fz9ch5q]

I believe it's in the vashtorr books.

[@lionheartpt4555]

I believe that Roboute and Lion will at first be incredulous at the fact that they are actually seeing each other in the flesh and alive,and after either Rouboute or Lion will come out with a snarky remark of some sort,but than they will embrace one another in relief that they are not alone and that their brother is there with them to support and help them. I truly hope GW doesn't take 20 years to make it happen.

[@Tommiart]

I'd imagine a scene aboard the Vengeful Spirit after the battle at Wyrmwood. There is a room with a giant crystalline structure. Traitors walk past and kick it or bash it with weapons and taunt it. It remains silent and cold. In that room spreads a mist. It grows dark, yet the smell of mulch and leaves and dew permeate the air. Vines and branches grow from the walls. Restless guards dont know where to look and before an alarm can be raised black armoured warriors step out of the mists and slay them silently. Then the massive hooded knight steps forward to face the crystal shard. He touches it tenderly for a moment....before drawing his sword. The Lion returns from his stealth mission regaining a shard of Sanguinius that now lives in his mind. The Dark Angel and the Blood Angel are now one.

[@damobeck1]

They are brothers. They’ll squabble, but they’ll have each others back in the end.

[@alpheuswoodley8435]

If your "brothers" are the only beings able to share your experience of being a primarch, then you will only be able to form meaningful emotional bonds with your fellow primarchs. "Brotherly Love"

[@davidhannant451]

Hahahaha . Just thinking about ep1 season 1 of red drawf . Rimmer being gillaman an dave lister being lion . Holly being the emp. Now as for the cat would have to be corax

[@connorcmsmith4302]

I see the lion and Horus like the older brothers of the primarchs (for anyone who has older brothers like me I look up to them there accomplishments and achievements but there are times I want to strangle them)

[@SandmanofTerra]

Pretty much 😂

[@logandelaharpe6362]

And yet it was Horus who went to rogal and roboute for advice even thinking it like he’s going to his older brothers Horus is one of the younger primarchs

[@jaredprovost2002]

7:00 is this why the Nova Marines (likely) successor chapters are the *DARK* Sons and the *ANGELS* of Fury? As a sign of respect to carry on the nobility of their saviors, if only in name, not blood.

[@jajordan2106]

Im sure they will once Guilliman visits the rock that makes you old

[@ainz-san48]

"could you kill me? ... if you tried?" "idk maybe?" is the funniest thing ever lmao

[@TheEmperorsChampion964]

*Lion* The regent is tired *Guillimam* I'm not tired! *Lion* Apothecary, perhaps a pinch of warp dust to help him sleep

[@pyerack]

All I know about Lion and "Ghillie"man is "Conrad is in your city. Let me nuke it." "No" "Just one city bro" "No" "Please?" "No"

[@Gillemear]

Konrad Curze- the Midnight Bomber who bombs at midnight! Baby!

[@piotrd.4850]

Remember, this is no longer 30k - polite, methodical, somewhat trusting unless proven otherwise, more of an organizer than figher Guiliman. He now has fought probably most primarchs of all of them ( Mortarion, Magnus, Alpharius and one more I think ) He dealt with Hexarchy. He put entire Crusade up. He met directly with Emperor. He learned a lot from Custodes. Also he had benefit of time to get adjusted.

[@davidthomas2870]

I cant imagine the Kahn has been captured by the drukari, he's probably just lost in the webway going a bit mad and perhaps transitioning from the master of horses to something more like a biker mobster rolling around in there, breaking and stealing the drukari's stuff to survive, perhaps gathering to his banner any astartes or humans he can liberate from the dark eldar in a mirror of his original story except this time, its a series of winding and maze like paths instead of wide open fields. I can also imagine the activation of the Wyrmwood device by vashtorr, which is related to the webway, will have gotten the attention of the Kahn, the dark eldar and anyone else in or who uses the webway even if their response is yet to come. Additionally, it seems the release pace is 1 chaos and 1 loyalist primarch per eddition or so, but they started with Magnus who had no partner. Guilliman came out along side mortarion. Assuming they keep the pattern and 1 of the Twins is alive, that will leave 1 loyal primarch to release on his own as a finale to this saga of returning heros of yore. And of all of them, I think Russ is the one who could be that finale reveal better than any other, so I bet Leman Russ will not be next, and will probably be the last. This edition my bet is that we will either see Fulgrim, Lorgar or perturabo as the chaos primarchs returning next (most likely fulgrim but they might throw a curveball) and for the loyalists I can see potential for either Vulkan, The Kahn, Corvus Corax or Rogal Dorn coming back. Vulkan is liable to show up whenever if they write that the Salamanders complete their quest for his artifacts, and his humanity and kindness would make for a good juxtaposition to Fulgrim's cruelty. If Lorgar comes back next as a Demon of chaos undivided, it'd be a mistake to not bring Corax back at the same time for their epic but probably inconclusive duel. If Perturabo returns, I can't help but feel that Dorn should arrive along side him to continue their rivalry, which I imagine would also heavily involve them both having to simultaneously deal with the tyranids because perturabo has been mentioned as active in segmentum Pacificus, carving out his own little realm that just so happens to be directly in the way of leviathan, and the iron warriors have done freaky stuff with tyranids in the past like turning a hive ship into a massive obliterator. Given recent developments in Dorn's character in the end and the death, I can't help but feel like he'll be much more akin to the Black Templars than the Imperial Fists, all Blood for the Emporer and Skulls for the Golden Throne and maybe just a liiiiiiiittle nuts, or perhaps more like the Crimson fists if post iron cage he comes back from the madness he's developing a bit and/or hangs out with Vulkan for a while.

[@coolnamebro7363]

I just have a mental image of Guilliman screaming at the Lion for bombing his planet and the Lion just going "Still worked tho."

[@timothylacson1525]

Next should be Dorn sporting the emperor’s lightning claw.

[@thenson1Halo]

Now that you mention it, as old and somewhat insane as Bjorn is, if anyone knows where Leman Russ might be it is him. It could easily be a secret he was keeping for his primarch that he has forgotten over the last 10,000 years. An honor duel with the Lion could be just the thing to bring that memory forth. Maybe he would even unknowingly yell it out, something like "Try going to X and my father will deal with you himself, cub!".

[@Dragoth1337]

The honor duel is a weird thing now. In 6th (I think) it was in the codexas actual stratagem. But in Russ's book he specifically mentions the fued is over. The fellhanded might have actually heard that so it's an interesting dynamic

[@SandmanofTerra]

Yeah it's super interesting how the lore changes between editions

[@starhammer5247]

I believe, at this point, it's just a tradition between the two Chapters.

[@fernybern]

Just imagine being just some civilian and you see one of these guys like even just a glimpse

[@ChromisPasqueflowerBowerbird]

Lion needs to give Guilliman some training montage

[@blipblap8798]

I think it would be pretty dumb if they still held grudges against each other not to mention, the state of the imperium, they need to work together. If they do still have beef they both need to suck it up and put it aside and help the imperium. If not that’s dumb I mean considering how the primarchs were written in the story to be genetically better than us in every way physically and mentally but really just act like over grown man children. Kind of like how the Horus Heresy started

[@bignasty4874]

They may be mentally superior, but not emotionally. They all grew up as privileged prodigies. They were robbed of their childhood. Being treated like you're the second coming of Christ can set the stage for some very juvenile views to be developed and nurtured by the by the expectations of the closest thing to a God that you know and was specifically designed to be only second to him. This is a recipe for quiet pandemonium. Being treated like an adult their entire life didn't teach them how not to act like a child. They were never shown their proper place, they were shown in at the very top, with no perspective from any other view. They were looked upon as each legion's very own living lord and savior. Hardly conducive to one's humility.

[@dredgenxur]

Man, I need the next book already...

[@trinstonmichaels7062]

Well made video

[@Xhumed]

Roboute: "I will do a double heresy!" Also Roboute: "you have to do Space Marining this way otherwise you look sus and heretical."

[@nobodyimportant4929]

The Lion: “Brother I may have made a mistake and now Abbadon has a potent ion path to Terra because of some Dark Age tech I hid in the Rock.” Gulliman: “I also have something to confess, that Eldar puss has me acting in an unwise manner brother.”

[@blagerthorpnonersense1894]

‘Jack of all trades, master of none, oftentimes better than a master of one,” is the full quote. It’s not a dig at people not having too high a level of mastery in a single subject, but to the contrary, it is to say that in most circumstances a person having a passing knowledge in many fields is more advantageous than a person being a master at a single subject. An English professor is useless if you need a car fixed or advanced mathematics done.

[@marsmech]

I think after Gman fills in the Lion about the situation the imperium is in they'll put aside that yhey aren't besties and start getting to work.

[@Ebay772488]

The full phrase is “a jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one.” It was a compliment.