BMW iX M60 | The Frustrating Future of EVs

[@MowerModdin]

I was genuinely surprised with the direction of this video. I really appreciate the energy that SavageGeese goes through in order to appreciate high-quality engineering on these new cars. Most reviewers complain about this or that. SavageGeese tells you that an automobile works really well or really poorly, and here's why. As an engineer-in-training, this is the only car review channel that I frequently watch. Because I appreciate the good work that other good engineers do as well.

[@minigiant8998]

u didnt tell us why........

[@marccusumano1138]

When I first started watching SG I assumed they were engineers themselves

[@misterjiggles5041]

@@marccusumano1138 Jack is.

[@markmiller3279]

Agreed, though I think they were slightly credulous about BMW claims in this. An automaker claiming to specify battery chemistry is pretty much nuts. CATL, the Chinese company they're buying the cells from, is the biggest manufacturer of these sort of batteries. They're the experts in battery chemistry, not BMW. All the business about been permanent magnets versus electromagnets also has me rolling my eyes a bit. There are legitimate efficiency and other reasons permanent magnets motors are used.

[@fortheloveofnoise]

This channel for what you said, Doug DeMuro for the weird quirks, and carwow for the comedy....love that dude.

[@kurtstephan7039]

I can't believe I spent 37 minutes watching a video on what must be one of the two or three LEAST appealing vehicles on the market. That's how good this channel is!

[@CarsMeetsBikes]

that being said I now have a lot more respect for what they're trying to do with this car. The exterior may be polarizing but the car as a whole is incredibly well engineered, even if it is a throwaway vehicle considering how fast the battery technology is advancing

[@Beer_Dad1975]

For some reason I kept having Bugs Bunny singing "What's up Doc?" going around and around in my head the whole time...

[@Beer_Dad1975]

@@CarsMeetsBikes Battery tech isn't advancing at all - lithium ion tech is absolutely at its physical limits - the only changes in recent years have been in packaging improvements and manufacturing efficiencies. On top of that there isn't even any chemistry that we know of that could improve on lithium ion tech - so we have hit a hard limit on battery technology that won't be overcome unless there is some revolution in physics. This is literally as good as it gets, bar some small tweaking.

[@sentryion3106]

@@Beer_Dad1975 there are rumors of solid state but I don’t see it being mainstream for at least another 5-7 years since so far it’s either experimental or only shown in lab condition

[@cosettapessa6417]

@@Beer_Dad1975 sad

[@matthewavignonpetersen5893]

You guys are the single greatest auto KZbinrs on the scene and I say that as someone who works in the auto space. I actively share your videos with colleagues who need to bone up on the latest trends in the industry around design and engineering. Hats off and keep ‘em coming!

[@JJ-vs3gz]

Doesn't take a genius to know this is the best auto channel. I say this as someone who's not an azzhole.

[@Youtubeuser1aa]

@@JJ-vs3gz are you sure you’re not?😂

[@matthewavignonpetersen5893]

@JC Hey there goon, I didn't have to give them a dime. I'm a patron on Patreon and gave them an additional tip here to go along with my comment for an exceptionally good video. Go troll elsewhere, and maybe make a better fake account next time?

[@matthewavignonpetersen5893]

@JC put the tape measure away, dude. I’ve been a subscriber to this channel since 2015 - and, hey, if you’re supporting their excellent content too, good on ya. They deserve every dollar they make. That said, maybe best to lay off trying to talk shit to a long-time supporter with your spammy, two-week-old KZbin account lest you get banned again ✌️

[@weltonreds]

One of the things I like about Mark's channel is that implicit in his EV reviews is that we are still in the Model T phase.

[@tamasszabo8824]

Very well said. The only difference is that horses were not demonized, when the Model T was revealed. ICE cars, sadly, are pictured as outdated, inferior and harmful modes of transportation.

[@nateisright]

@@tamasszabo8824 Agree 100% The EV “disruption” model is made possible by government regulations putting a thumb (or 3 trillion) on the scale. EVs just don’t really do anything better than gasoline powered cars/trucks, except maybe accelerate harder. Owners need a place to charge EVs, usually daily, because gasoline stores more energy per pound than a battery can. How do we get the stuff to make batteries? Strip mining? What do we do with the batteries when they degrade? Uh oh. That’s a huge drawback for EVs, especially if you like road trips or use your truck to tow a trailer full of tools/parts in four counties every day for work and you’re driving a 1999 model with hundreds of thousands of miles on it. But what do I know.

[@jefffaller8474]

As an EV owner I don't completely agree with his closing thoughts because its the typical goal post moving line when you've been conditioned to buy gasoline and are struggling with change: "when they get 200 miles range, no...300...wait...400...when the next battery comes out...when there cheaper..." the list is endless, and ridiculous in 2022. My suggestion, buy an EV now because you're ready to make a change away from pumping gas as a ridiculous expensive habit for starters. First, A LOT of NEW BMWs and Mercedes and 6 figure luxury cars in general (ICE or electrified) are leased because of the massive depreciation and the image signaling a new car represents to many buyers in this price range. The overwhelming majority of new BMWs in particular are leased, so is this truely a ding on the EV platform? no. Prior to the Tesla Model 3 (2017) I would have agreed to lease your Leaf or what ever you bought between 2010 and 2017 when the Model 3 came out. However, its widely excepted that the Model 3 started the era of buying your EV for the long term. For reference, I bought my 2018 BMW i3 with very, very, low miles in 2020 for a bargain $22K from the dealer and intend to drive it for many many years, its the cheapest transportation there is and I still have zero battery degradation after 50K miles and zero maintenance costs. The long term high mileage data is readily available now which proves that fears about battery degradation is mostly unfounded and minimal after a 100k miles or more and you still have plenty of range to meet your daily needs. I don't agree that EVs are disposable after 3 years, that's ridiculous, we're just not used to seeing true advancements in the auto industry, so it seems like there's never the right time to commit. Are you not going to buy the new iPhone because there will be a new and improved model available in 2025?

[@fortheloveofnoise]

@@tamasszabo8824 just like EVs....hiding the problem away from home does not make the problem go away, it just transports the pollution to less desirable populations

[@Neojhun]

@@tamasszabo8824 "horses were not demonized" WRONG THEY WERE! Stop trying to replace history. Problem with horses was literally POOP & URINE WASTE which littered the streets. This was a horrible problem clogging up the streets in heavily populated areas with high traffic. Ironically a very similar problem we have now.

[@HandsomeAlex25]

Great objective comment on the design - "when you have such talent, and everyone is just talking about the looks, you're doing something wrong" This is why I love your videos. It's not about the styling, it's about the engineering and the driving and ownership experience. Excellent stuff as always.

[@fp5495]

Couldn't disagree more. Designers, crafting something globally, are not basing on self-proclaimed car enthusiasts that wouldn't be interested in this car, or this brand for that matter, anyway. They didn't design this to make savagegeese types happy. The same people who whine that Audi hasn't moved the design needle in two decades seem to be the same people who whine BMW is moving it too much. If it's too much, then stick to a nice generic Japanese design, or a pale-comparison Korean name. They're more reliable (snore) anyway.

[@ARentz07]

@@fp5495 lol imagine saying Japanese cars are generic when Lexus exists.

[@fp5495]

​@weinerschnitzelboy Well, you and your Asian-brand-lovng upvoters can rest easy knowing that the designers at BMW, schooled internationally, put all that design philosophy and dedication into what they knew would go over the average car buyer's head. Meanwhile, at Honda, the designers just released the new Accord design for the (very) general masses.

[@fp5495]

@@ARentz07 I agree. The new Lexus LX is a bland as it gets. You get it.

[@caleidoo]

I don't agree with that statement. It validates the baseless bandwagon jumping & click baiting on the internet, nothing more. It's a distinct design, sure and some colours work better than others. But to call it one of the ugliest cars of recent years or even of all BMW's... is just ridiculous. A lot of people just called it ugly because it's different than other BMW's. Or because it's an EV. And of course, because it gets them attention.

[@rudydousset2271]

The car for when you can't get enough of the THX sound check

[@phillyphil1513]

rotflmao...

[@jamesmedina2062]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Chris-xm1iq]

Great video guys! It's unfortunate that BMW wasn't helpful. I definitely appreciate all the work that went into this review.

[@Ianmundo]

I test drove one of these, supremely underwhelming. Some highlights: Stupid square-ish steering wheel, a vague accelerator pedal, no under-trunk storage, no frunk, and a baffling UI that took me over 5 minutes to work out how to adjust the HUD. I test drove it to see if there was another level of quality that I was missing out on, boy was I disappointed. Over 50% more expensive than my Model Y for a low-spec iX, no thanks 👎

[@minigiant8998]

@@Ianmundo eww, the build quality of teslas is gross. and let's not talk about handling. ill take this bmw anyday over a tesla.

[@cosettapessa6417]

@@minigiant8998 😂

[@TassieLorenzo]

@@minigiant8998 Tesla handling is by ex-Lotus people, no? All double wishbone, good steering feel, relatively stiff damping -- Tesla handling is generally considered pretty good isn't it (better steering feel than BMW for example)?

[@minigiant8998]

@@TassieLorenzo drive both and youll have ur answer. bmw is the ultimate driving machine and tesla is the ultimate panel gap machine.

[@RajPatel-vq6if]

The technical discussion was quite refreshing, especially all the different nuances of EV technology and its future. Thanks.

[@jnichols959]

I also appreciate the focus on EV tech and its future. I disagree that this car will be "disposable" because a next gen battery version will come out in a couple years. With 300+ miles, modern battery cooling tech, and the EV experience of BMW, this sounds like a practically usable EV that may very well stay practical for 100k - 200k miles or more. A normal charging stop may take 8 minutes instead of 15 with the next gen battery, but that's no reason to toss a vehicle on the scrap heap. If you want to upgrade EVs like iPhones, that's up to you but likely unnecessary with this car for practical normal use.

[@lupupetruviorel]

@@jnichols959 let's wait and see them in real life, also the cost of new gen

[@davevq]

I don't understand why the minimalistic design has taken over; This fad started 4-5 years ago and people said no, but lets go full commit and make it worse.

[@aygwm]

Minimalism is great. But doing it at the expense of functionality is taking it too far

[@chrisogrady28]

Absolutely hate these open dashboards with a screen glued on. My entire life I've always loved cars with dramatic closed cockpits. High centre consoles, stubby gearsticks uo high, proper mechanical dials, TVR style. These are the things that make a car feel expensive to me. This minimalist shit just looks like an MPV ala Renault Scenic.

[@user-qc7dr3cd3q]

It's cheaper to manufacture.

[@alanwarren8365]

Mark, at 31:03 in the video you say “ X 7 with a V-6” . BMW does not make any V-6s. It in an inline 6 which is 3.0 liter and a great engine.

[@tim3172]

"people said no" Uhh, no they didn't. You might have, but the general public did *not*.

[@TermlessHGW]

Two car reviewing vids popped up for me this morning. CarWow and Savage... And without any thought I clicked here. These guys deserve much more recognition for their work.👍

[@yaboiyosef7640]

Carwow 🤢

[@jonlosito2004]

@@yaboiyosef7640 ohh c'mon how could u hate him?? He's one of the most popular European automotive KZbinrs that has a great content.

[@jonlosito2004]

I also got the notification from The Straight Pipes 😏

[@ItsTheNada]

Yea… I always choose Savage for real reviews. They do a great job of stick to the facts and leaving behind the bias. It’s needed in a world that’s forcing everyone to go in a certain direction. I like that they discuss this cars finer and weaker points.

[@Meekmillan]

CarWow makes me wanna abuse Benadryl at work

[@leonchen89]

BMW has turned into the “Ultimate I am rich but have no taste driving machine”

[@skiddmcmarx5368]

So they've become Mercedes.

[@jermainec2462]

Yeah ugly cars for the rich.... fuck butt ugly cars for the rich 😆😆

[@thelarry383]

@@skiddmcmarx5368 as far as EVs are concerned aside from the EQS/EQE SUV which I think look okay imo

[@23Piccolina]

Fantastic comment.

[@MitchMatrixx]

As an owner of a 2011 E92, I am saddened by their recent turn to the Woke Side. Clearly their styling matches the new outlook on the automotive future, which is to say that it sucks. Performance, styling, and fun are being traded in for mass consumer, electrified garbage, under the guise of “saving the planet”. Is there any safe haven left for dirty gassers like me? 😢

[@andrewhillman9632]

Fantastic review, I would love to see a manufacturer sit down with you and have some candind conversations about these productcts. Thanks to Mark and Jack for the time and effort in these productions.

[@matthewbowen5841]

Not that it was at all satisfying, but we got that with the Integra.

[@codincoman9019]

There are many car producers that helped, like Mazda, Chrysler, Ford etc. Maybe Toyota, Honda, Subaru etc. - I don't remember them all.

[@ModelingInMotion]

Nice washing machine

[@cwx8]

It's an OK washing machine.

[@yaboiyosef7640]

Don't disrespect washing machines

[@robmd3851]

My washing machine gets better mileage, it walks across the room almost all day while washing until it pulls the cord out.

[@ednis32]

As if anyone here would admit they'd prefer hand washing their clothes. We've always benefited on advancements in tech, so quit being a woke contrarian and just be positive. It's a step in the right direction.

[@JollyGiant19]

Try driving an electric vehicle! Once you do, it’s hard to go back

[@travistuckerSB]

BMW: Don’t let the view counts fool you. While savagegeese may not get the mass market eyeballs those of us who do watch are the influencers to everyone around us. When friends, family, coworkers need a car we are the ones who they come to for advice. You should be supporting Mark and Jack with everything you have because these are the guys we listen to.

[@jefffaller8474]

Go to a BMW dealer, that's where I bought my used i3, they don't act like they need a lot of help selling people cars and their product knowledge is off the scale unlike most GM and Ford salesmen i've ever dealt with.

[@Hugelhaus80]

We have a white M60. We freaking love it. We know it’s weird looking and that’s ok. The sound system is beyond amazing and the speed is mind blowing. Hand controls are another plus. The air suspension and rear steering is also a plus not mentioned. Should have been. It’s super-large on the inside. Makes you feel Like you’re sitting on a BMW throne. If you’re in the market for the top of the EV food chain, buy it. It’s a blast to drive. Posted 1-2024

[@HZACHARY2004]

I lease the iX50. I was fortunate to find one that had both the rear wheel steering and air suspension, before BMW made those options on the iX50, exclusive to the M60 version. My last car was a Taycan 4S CT. The iX is far more useable, and quite fun to drive. It did not really love the Taycan’s coasting-on-lift-off, strategy. Sometimes when you lift-off, you really do want the car to slow down. The iX is brilliant at predictability and speed management. The electric motors and the air suspension make you believe that the car knows what you want it to do, before you do, and has already executed the adjustment. Really a technological achievement. BTW, my iX50 has the 20” wheels, and the consistent range is 380 miles. Which is good because Electrify America is not so good.

[@kkgolf5371]

I have the iX 50 and the range is nowhere near 380 miles! That is BS! I took it on a 1000 mile trip and it was 280-290 miles at the most pushing it to 5% from 95% charge! with 2 kids and a wife doing 75-80 you will not get over 300 miles

[@davect01]

Thank you for two parts that most reviewers don't cover. 1- The audio. Thank you for discussing the audio systems 2- The repair costs for EV's and inability for owners to do repairs. So many people holler that EV's are gonna save the world but having to face the five-eight year battery replacement cost. You either dump $10-15k for a new battery or get a new car. As soneone who keeps cars 15+ years and does many of my own repairs, this is a future I am not looking forward to.

[@CarsMeetsBikes]

right now battery cell technology is at an infantile stage where you have batteries that are fairly complex to change out and only last 5-8 years. I think we'll definitely see a future where you could DIY change your own battery cells (easily) and they'll last at least a decade. The engineering just needs time to catch up.

[@illuminatingdarkness3689]

@@CarsMeetsBikes not before we run out of the rare earth minerals that we use for these cells. And you are joking if you think you can DIY those cells, not when Apple has put out a blueprint on putting a stranglehold on fixing your own phone. Deere over in farming has also followed suit with their farming equipment. We already have subscription service for shits like remote start. If you think for a second that those corpos are gonna just let you DIY and fix your own car like the last 80 years, you are dreaming a pipe dream.

[@lkae4]

@@CarsMeetsBikes I thought EVs were the future too. Not anymore. Tech is just not there and won't be for 50 or 100 years. We can't even make enough Corollas and F-150s 3 years after the new flu bug.

[@snakeeyes9246]

@@CarsMeetsBikes while I do see batteries lasting much longer in the future (and they can also be recycled easily), I doubt it would be safe to do DIY battery work. I'm going to buy my first EV in this upcoming spring, but don't really plan on doing anything DIY aside from brakes and tires.

[@CaptainCJ97]

Exactly, idk if they're paid not to say that glad these guys did

[@benbrown5913]

I appreciate that Mark and the SavageGeese team haven't been captive to the "grumpy old man bemoans old times" narrative that defined many of their reviews over the last few years. You are now leaning into offering the deepest, most engineering-led vehicle reviews on the market. You are also embracing the next generation of mobility, whether you personally like it or not. That's an impressive trait and it will be an enabler of your long-term success.

[@offshorequest]

Too much rapidly changing technology and too much money. A very good point about these being a "disposable" product and how the "sustainability" is being overstated. Last year when we bought a new vehicle we decided on a Honda Passport. Just a normally aspirated V-6 with a real auto transmission. We keep our vehicles a long time (also have a 2007 C-Class and a 1970 MGB) and I know the Passport will stand the test of time.

[@shadowslayer64]

Non-aspirated V6? Lol

[@matthewbowen5841]

@@shadowslayer64 Someone forgot to unwrap the air filter element again...

[@offshorequest]

@@shadowslayer64 Whoops Meant to say "normally aspirated".

[@kalmmonke5037]

dont they put that v6 in a sedan. sounds good.

[@offshorequest]

@@kalmmonke5037 Not sure. I think Honda has gone to Turbo I-4s in their sedans now.

[@hissingoose]

vehicles like this make me happy that i was able to get a basic 2022 tacoma. it starts in -25 (yes it's been that cold here already), goes forwards, backwards, stops, and the heater works... that's all i need.

[@jeffmorse645]

Oh but you're killing the planet in an ICE vehicle, blah, blah, blah.

[@BMWE90HQ]

Keep that car as long as possible the eco warrior weirdos are trying to force everyone into EVs.

[@jamesmedina2062]

I like the Tacomas but they ride like hell and are much bigger than most people need.

[@doggedlydetermined7022]

About as exciting as bingo night at my local nursing home

[@gingerd2098]

I worked on a VW E-Golf the other day. Honestly, I’m very impressed with them. I only took it for a short drive after aligning it, but it felt like a normal car which I really appreciate.

[@RaviWadan]

What an incredible video! The level of detail you guys provide (audio, battery, interior, iDrive) us viewers is truly appreciated! BMW has a great car on its hands, but the design is certainly questionable... Definitely my favorite KZbin automotive channel. I know I can rely on your info!

[@funsmartguy]

Really liked the mechanic discussion and the talk of the lack of future proofing in the model. Rey detailed and appreciated versus other channels.

[@rosgoncharuk2403]

The curved display is the reason why I've cancelled my 2 series coupe order - I was expecting it to be '22, but they pushed it to '23 m.y. with this "update"...

[@tzukima]

the future weighs and costs twice as much but lasts half as long

[@JakeTerch]

Mark, you don’t get enough credit for your intro music arrangements!

[@orbitaljunkie]

Always reminds me of playing the original Gran Turismo.

[@jamsu7126]

Great analysis with the Shoppe segment regarding the logistics and longevity of these vehicles, really curious to see what the future holds with these things

[@anydaynow01]

Just seeing all the automation blew my mind. I can imagine all that wiring will be done with bus bars and PCBs in the next gen battery so the labor costs for the battery assembly will be near nil in comparison to what it is now.

[@jamsu7126]

@@anydaynow01 totally agree, has to happen, even the consumer EVs are still quite expensive for the average person so production costs need to come down

[@skiddmcmarx5368]

The future of cars is the smartphone, mostly disposable garbage that peaks and then they stop supporting the device for you to be forced to buy another.

[@bobthebuilder372]

I'm not convinced on their battery lifespan of 10 years. Batteries in Tesla's from 2012/2013 are still around with ~10% degradation. Battery tech and manufacturing is better than it was 10 years ago.

[@jamsu7126]

@@bobthebuilder372 I think you're 100% right, Nissan recycling programs for their Leafs have been significantly halted because the vast majority of batteries are still in the cars, Leaf's been around since 2011 and is one of the most basic EV platforms with simple air cooling

[@wescoleman6390]

Great discussion on both the vehicle itself and the underlying technology. It's too bad Munich didn't give you any technical support for this project. I'd love to see a tech roadmap from these guys and I look forward to seeing how they build a ground-up EV sedan.

[@17addidas]

Went to my BMW dealer for a scheduled maintenance on our 2017 i3 ( 109000 trouble free Km ) and thus had a chance to experience up close this Beast .It has presence . A very spacious interior and radiates quality and expensive from all angles . ..I just hope I see more than one person in the vehicle when encountered on city streets or highways .

[@skiddmcmarx5368]

Hope Jack has been blowing up the Toyota contacts to get hold of that Prius. That thing really surprised me with its looks and even some power.

[@Angelboy99]

I own a Tesla Y P+ and tried the iX50. iX50 is far superior quality and finish. I have FSD+ and use voice command for 95% of controls. Firstly Tesla has cars to sell, the charging network is second to none and the efficiency is leading the market.

[@GetOffMyLog]

Wow what praise for the audio system. I look forward to trying that out some day.

[@doomsday9973]

Ive heard it, it lives up to the hype. Incredible.

[@JohnnyZenith]

I heard it in Portugal. Amazing.

[@florinvid]

It is really good, true

[@pepomk123]

With these new bmws we usually say “It’s doesn’t look that bad IRL”. Well I’ve seen one of these and it is unquestionably disgusting. Its like it is based on a description of a child’s drawing of a car by a person that hasn’t seen a car.

[@minigiant8998]

i saw one in the car wash and was stunned. it looked fresh and very different and it took me awhile to realize it's a bmw from the profile.

[@pnourani]

It may not be your taste but it's definitely not disgusting.

[@florinvid]

You sir deserve to drive the most beautiful car in existence, the Pontiac Aztec

[@0-Will-0]

Still feel the same after a year? I didn't like it in photos originally but after seeing them around, particularly in black, I don't mind them as much.

[@rcpmac]

Hey Jack. We keep seeing more and more life and performance from batteries. In addition, the battery is a fairly straightforward removal process, power disconnect, coolant disconnect, management cable disconnect and 20 bolts to drop it. Open the case replace the faulty cell or cells, put it back together, go to lunch. Good for the 2nd 200k miles

[@snoopy178]

I think the mechanical door switch is kept in case of crashes where electric power is cut off. You can still get out in those situations.

[@bassandtrebleclef]

Adding complexity with no upside is foolish.

[@JollyGiant19]

@@bassandtrebleclef It’s a BMW, that’s all they are and ever have been.

[@Dowlphin]

@@bassandtrebleclef Isn't it meant to be an added convenience that you can push a button if you don't want to use the handle? But considering that you still have to touch and move the door, it seems like a lot of extra effort that that bit of pandering to the pathologically ultraconvenient.

[@josephcitizen4195]

@@Dowlphin I think it's small steps to get to a "BMW, Open my door" command. Totally hands free. We already have voice control and auto opening doors w/ active object detect sensors.

[@derrickjscottds]

@Ralph Lin you are correct. The handles are for emergency purposes if the power is cut off.

[@ShyamRonline]

Thanks for this detailed video review touching the pain points of such a manufacturing choice. The reparability and longevity problems are often swept under the carpet. People who buy this thinking they are making an environmentally conscious choice with their material choice for interior should learn how much waste they will end up generating in the long run with cars like this.

[@SR3TG119]

You guys have no idea how much I appreciate this video! The perfect blend of commentary, contextual info and banter is just *chefs kiss! Thank you!

[@derrickjscottds]

Great Review! I have an IX 50 and it is an incredible vehicle. My wife and I actually like the way the exterior looks and absolutely love the interior! The range we have experienced has been over 325 miles after each charge, with very normal and sometimes being aggressive on the throttle. This vehicle can also be driven on 1 pedal which makes it easy. The I drive 8 system has a bit of a learning curve. However, once we got used to doing the verbal commands and created some shortcuts, it has been quite easy to navigate through it. We have the Harmon Kardon sound system and it is very good. Tesla doesn't come close to the way that this handles or rides. (We test drove the Y and X ) Plus being subjected to Tesla's OS without the choice to have Android Auto or Apple Car Play was a bit of a disappointment. You're absolutely right that this type of vehicle should be leased because of what the next generation will be able to offer.

[@savagegeese]

I expected to hate this thing, and wound up thinking about owning it. Be curious how you feel about it in a few years.

[@derrickjscottds]

@@savagegeese Me too!

[@florinvid]

​@@savagegeesebut did you do it?

[@savagegeese]

@@florinvid Have to flip X7. Was trying to do it a few months back and fell through.

[@thatoneotherotherguy]

The collision repair cost is a great point. I remember you talking about this years ago with the LC500. I ordered a 2023 4Runner. It's stone age, boxy, there's steel everywhere, body on frame, supply everywhere.... probably about as cheap to cosmetically repair as a modern vehicle can get, as long as the frame doesn't get bent.

[@CindyJuhas]

I really appreciated your thoughtful and thorough comments and review. We bought one, a 2024 M60. We’re in our 70’s and can afford a luxury SAV. It could very well be the last car we buy. Ours is currently being built and we’re excited to get it in mid to late October. It’s a bit deflating to think of our car as “disposable” but that’s what one gets when you listen to a thoughtful discussion based in reality. Please keep doing what you seem to do well. Bob & Cindy

[@OpeoAslam]

And even if you turn off data collection, there's no guarantee it's actually disabled.

[@THEKOOLiDMAN]

As much as I like the design inside and out. This car just makes me realize that one day ill be sitting in my driver seat, watching adds all the way to my pre-programmed destination.

[@RussSchoonmaker]

Ugh… yeah, and then they will add a monthly subscription service, which allows you to opt out.😒

[@mulasien]

We are a long, looooong ways from EVs being able to be the primary car for the masses. I honestly think that plug in hybrids (PHEV) are the more appropriate near term bridge that offers the flexibility that pure EV does not, and hope to see more of those options in the future.

[@JollyGiant19]

What’s a long time? My guess is within ten years electric vehicles will outsell ICE. So far all the people I know who’ve bought electric (new or used) just love them so I feel that once thing have 500+ range and are about 40k, the only limitation to sales would be supply chain constraints.

[@bigcjm]

The average phev cost over 40k. As a matter of fact they cost as much as equivalent sized entry level bevs. As they are now the phev are too expensive to be the solution at nearly price parity with Bev.

[@skiddmcmarx5368]

Still think for the next 10 to 15 years, the ordinary HEV is the best option, but if you can grab a great V6 or V8 to store in the garage, that's great too.

[@mulasien]

@@JollyGiant19 "the only limitation to sales would be supply chain constraints." What you mentioned, plus: 1. Infrastructure to support charging just as easily as pumping gas while driving cross country. 2. Being able to charge as quickly as pumping gas. At the moment, pure EVs are either a luxury second car with a garage to plug in, or applicable to big city dwellers who rarely drive long distances. For just about everyone else, it's simply a non-starter. That, and EVs still can't 'get out of dodge' as easily as ICE engines in case of emergencies. I love the idea of pure EVs, but we're a ways until it's viable for the masses instead of the few who can compensate for its current shortcomings.

[@wtDrake]

@@JollyGiant19AAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA, everyone look at this fool, point and LAUGH at him for being this DELUSIONAL

[@S8ER]

Legit hate how it looks so there is no reason for me to give it anymore thought. It could be the best driving vehicle on earth but its hideous so its a DOA product for me. Love the review and your transparency with your thoughts during the review... that's the only reason I entertained the video. 🍻 Edit: Just finished the video... as a tech nut this was incredible. There is a lot going on behind the scenes here that is fascinating. It's almost a shame the design departments are trying so hard to make me hate these things. I definitely appreciate the amount of time and effort you put into this review. Well done.

[@aaaaaaxaaaaaa]

You nailed it all perfectly. Unfortunately this is the future of cars and nothing can stop it. You'll need to buy "classic" cars to have a real one now :(

[@cwx8]

Too many institutional investors see the EV revolution as a way to make a ton of money. It's not the environment they care about.

[@BlackMan614]

Until they ban gas stations. Don't laugh.

[@TapoutT]

Ill hold on to my 2000 Camaro z28

[@gs98999]

Why does everyone assume it’s the future? Just because a politician said so? A small battery hybrid sienna minivan is a 3 year wait at my dealer. Yet we are expecting 100 % full EVs for all in 13 years 😂😂

[@skipbreakfast]

@@BlackMan614 Gas stations won't disappear for at least 30 years. You'll be fine.

[@karthik11512]

You guys will be amazed when you get a chance to test the i7, it’s an incredible EV.

[@doomsday9973]

Got to drive this car, loved it. And that sound system was absolutely incredible. Outstanding review!

[@JohnnyZenith]

Me too. Drove it in Portugal.

[@Lexlugr]

This was so well done guys! I loved the little flex on soundstage design. Hans Zimmer scores are always on point so it's pleasant to see it's use here, though it can be jarring. Kia released similar product and went all the way as to making an instrument. The details on motor parasitics and impact on driving dynamics, the mention on HV architecture platforms over Med Volts, strategic sourcing -the whole package just shows their direction to get "smarter" implementation. BMW recognizes that they're trying to push the innovation on this next gen EV platform

[@betsywang6784]

Great video! We had our ix 50 for a few weeks now and love it . The only draw back is the lack of a Frunk which would Have made up for the smaller trunk space.

[@totommmoto]

Thank you for the great video! The level of details you provide and effort you put in, are just on another level. This should be a training video for the bmw geniuses.

[@markm0000]

Imagine this thing still on the road in 10 years. It would be an absolute nightmare to fix any small issue.

[@fcv1967]

The point of evs is that they will not need service

[@JDMSwervo2001]

@@fcv1967 that’s bullshit every EV is gonna need some kind of service down the line

[@baronvonjo1929]

@@fcv1967 I've seen battery's dying after 5 years. I've heard if battery's lasting 10 years. I have not idea who to truely believe.

[@cwx8]

You'll be doing a $30k battery replacement around that time.

[@cwx8]

@@fcv1967 excuse me?

[@Tripp55]

Thank you for making this video as long as you did. It really feels like like we, the viewer, are having a conversation with you about the car since you proactively answer a large range of questions that any of us would have about the car. I will say that I have been in one of these an I was very impressed with the quality of everything you come into contact with on a regular basis. The crystal seat adjustments and wooden center console with no separate buttons was very impressive.

[@kurtkaster5666]

I've suspected it, and now that I've heard the CEO say it, BMW is convinced that anything they come up, is the future. And if people don't like it, that means it's controversial and that's a good thing. That arrogance is astonishing to me. Even when faced with overwhelming dislike, BMW stays the course convinced that it's customer base will eventually "get it". I know its just a car, but I'm actually bummed by the direction BMW is going with this bucktooth bunny/beaver looking mess. Getting rid of buttons, gear shift levers, gauges, because they are trying to be like Tesla, heartbreaking! I see one of these almost every day going home from work, and each time I see it, it looks worse. Please Savagegeese, use your pull to get BMW back on track!!!

[@homiefizzle5260]

To be fair, it's worked pretty well for the new M3 and M4, they're now the best selling M cars ever.

[@Vin3Man]

This is the only channel that keeps it real, which is what us as consumers want, a professional critical eye. I have not found another channel that is not biased towards keeping the manufacturers happy. Bravo!

[@fortheloveofnoise]

watch carwow....he does not care haha...but that's about it

[@MrDavekov]

I genuinely like how BMW saw all the r/justrolledintotheshop posts about people bedazzling their dashboards into airbag shrapnel face grenades & was like "let's do this but safe and stylish." Give the people what they want. Even if what they want is giant crystal lock buttons.

[@Closertotruth2]

The purchase cost is high, the insurance cost is high, the battery replacement cost is high, the residual is low, the cost to build is high, the petrol used to harvest battery natural elements is high, the coal or natural gas generated electricity to charge the batts is high ….. These vehicles will save the planet.

[@TheDagraner4576]

The crystal knob and wood trim have me wondering why there isn't a compartment for my tea cups and fine china.

[@roboticskybeast]

I’m still astonished real living human beings with working eyeballs approved of this design. It’s so laughably ugly…and it’s not even that it’s just a bad BMW design, but that it’s genuinely a hideous design for any car in general. As a BMW fan and previous owner, this thing just induces me with denialist laughter and then depression. Not even gonna bother mentioning the technical specs and stuff because I can’t get myself to care when a car, specifically a BMW, looks this stupid…. Yet I still watched this whole video because this channel is the GOAT of KZbin car review world! And sorry to be one of those annoying new bmw design complainers that feels compelled to regurgitate notions that have been stated countless times. I’m just grieving.

[@smig95]

Of the three German brands Audi has the best looking vehicles going into the electric vehicle age. Mainly because they continue to look like historical Audi’s inside and out.

[@taidee]

Here in South Africa, BMW has always called their X-cars SAVs not SUVs. By the way, what an amazing in depth video.

[@BobWilson84]

The augmented tones are such a cool idea. Also the crystal details are a fun change of pace. I don't understand all the hate, I think it looks great and would be at the top of my list if I was in the market or hit the lotto.

[@jamesmedina2062]

Lotto odds are like 1 in 500 million?

[@joedoaks6517]

The most thoughtful review of the iX platform I have seen.

[@ebsupra]

That into is commercial worthy. You guys have made amazing progress over the years.

[@haviiithelegogunner907]

I basically watch any auto review video on youtube and you guys are just the best crew. 10/10. Thank you so much.

[@jspeed04]

Exceptional and informative video. Thank you, especially, for the discussion about the mechanical aspects of the vehicle. I've had a BEV for going on 3 years now and I have found it enjoyable, though, admittedly, my personal circumstances have no doubt aided in how favorable I am towards them versus their internal combustion cousins. Thanks, again.

[@gatobronziado]

I think this video overlooks a few facts…namely…Tesla is currently built on 400v architecture and most EV’s are substantially less. Currently, 800v architecture is not supported by current charging infrastructure..so it makes no sense to wait out something that will likely not happen for maybe 5-10 years. The benefits of an 800v system are minimal. If you’re basing your decision to by an EV based on charge time..then you’re not really looking for an EV. It’s silly to base your decision on waiting for 400v v. 800v. You could buy a Lucid or Inoniq 5 now with that infrastructure and gains are minimal. The car has to have a built in power inverter that speeds up the process, but then you have other issues with cooling, heat, and power efficiency. BMW purposely used 400v because it was the most efficient. No need to really precondition my the battery to charge and it’s plug and play. It’s a super easy car to operate. Maybe educate yourself more on different EV infrastructure and try to understand it. Then you can make a more informative decision, rather than just unsupported conclusions to make people fearful of owning an EV. It’s just like any other car…it’s never going to be an asset and you will always lose money.

[@florinvid]

Underrated comment. Spot on! 👏

[@Lulzmango]

Very fascinating car and I absolutely cannot wait for BMW to completely annihilate Tesla in regards to EV quality and production. It's coming, we knew it was coming, and after 10 years of Tesla supremacy it's time for someone to raise the bar beyond a rental Nissan interior. Very cool to hear about the audio system as well. Wish there was even a chance normal people can experience it, but it's not like you can even test drive cars in 2022. Great video!

[@Rocket9944]

I've never heard someone use "BMW" and "Quality" in the same sentence. I know quite a few people with Tesla's and they're not in the shop once a month like the BMW owners I know. BMW's garbage!

[@aussie2uGA]

I traded my e93 convertible for the Tesla Model 3. Honestly, while the sound of the V8 was nice, the Tesla is a better ownership experience. I already have 100k miles on it and only added washer fluid.

[@mefferso04]

I just went and watched your first video, the Veloster. You had hair Mark! Ha! Anyways, just wanted to say how much I thoroughly enjoy all of y'all's videos. I am a patron, hoping to do my part to keep you in this business of making videos because you (and Jack) are some of the best out there. Keep on kicking ass guys!

[@cbruno12180]

These evs are just plain boring!! It’s all about screens and tech and how big the fuel range is..

[@randy2558]

And how hideous the fake grill is..

[@DS-nw4eq]

There’s a used Corolla for sale down the street for $1500.

[@sammy10001]

That interior looks phenomenal and actually next level futuristic. It's everything I want in the inside of my ford f150. But when I look at the outside of it, and the fact that it's cringe EV instead of a gas, I puke and say no thanks

[@EvilTeddie23]

Amazing video. THE best review of the BMW iX M60 so far! I lease my vehicles and I test drove the iX M50 and was meh. Immediately afterwards I test drove the iX M60 and returned with a shit eating grin all over my face. Compared to the X3M I currently drive, it is even more aggressive and I loved it. I agree with you on the lease vs. buy and also to be aware of insurance rates. I was quoted a $14 monthly increase for a 2024 X3M vs. a $116 monthly increase for the M60. I order one to lease and it is now being built. Who is the vehicle for you asked? The same peo[le that buy X3Ms or X5Ms.

[@AgonxOC]

I think this car is amazingly well designed and thought out. My issues is the removal of the buttons, but the voice command is pretty great. Far better than anything else in any other brand. It’s like using Siri, Alexa, or Google.

[@joseeduardo4327]

Great vid. Used EVs will be horrible with their aged batteries. The used car market is wildly important yet nobody voices that concern

[@garyeastment1992]

Check out redriven. Great channel

[@chadedwards4581]

I’m confused why you call this car disposable. Batteries are pretty tough and have proven to last a long time. Who cares if bmw is updating to a new platform. This vehicle minus its looks could have a longer drive life than the ice vehicles I typically purchase.

[@nilomaia4851]

Great filming, great content, great comments. More important, honest, inteligent and non-paid thoughts. Thank you!

[@Towert7]

People need to get this concept in their head. If it's disposable, it's not 'green', no matter what they try to sell you. EV's are as far from green as you can get. Mark gets this.

[@KingSobieski]

When I worked in auto body, you could heat up the panels to loosen the glue to separate (steel). The carbon fiber might not be able to be separated since the heat might actually destroy the underlying carbon fiber.

[@GiGaSzS]

7:00 BMW ditched physical buttons because people did not use them. Sorry Steve, I don't agree. This is just an excuse they are giving to make things cheaper and more locked down. Also the physical buttons need far less interaction than touch screen so of course I will take people more time at the touch screen than buttons. I am disappointed in BMW, 2 years have come by and still this shitty UI. Just embrace it BMW, older was better and improve on that instead of reinventing everything just to make a vau effect on new customers. Because at the same time you are loosing long time BMW owners. The only thing to ruin is driving dynamic and then BMW loses everything that made it great :/

[@BlackMan614]

It's literally a bolted on curved screen with cheap plastic mounting bracket. The german engineering aesthetic has hit an all-time low.

[@bassandtrebleclef]

This problem isn't new.... BMW has been chasing crapification since at least 2010. I just did a ride and drive in the 340 xdrive. Extremely impressive car with a cheap interior and big, beautiful 4k screens to distract from the cheaping out. Take away the driving dynamics and it's a cheap feeling and made car. That is unacceptable to people spending this kind of money on cars.

[@ElPsiCongroo]

Amazing job recording the iconic sounds. The depth and reverberation of the sound came through really well through my headphones, and by comparison typically engine sounds are very poorly recorded with no depth and vary from video to video. It must've been difficult to comprehensively capture, and I appreciate it.

[@vr6gls]

The future of cars will now all be soulless appliances that will be too complicated for anyone outside of a dealership to work on. I would rather live in the past. 👍🏾

[@jonlosito2004]

I wish we had a time machine. I wanna go back to 2007 or 2012

[@aussie2uGA]

Keep in mind the average ICE driveline has 3000 moving mechanical parts. The EV has a couple dozen. Mechanical always fails before electrical.

[@vr6gls]

@@aussie2uGA Those 3000 moving parts are still far cheaper and easier to replace. When something does eventually go wrong in an EV, it will cost far more and most people won’t be able to work on them outside of dealerships. Even more $$$$$.

[@JohnnyZenith]

You do.

[@brunoheggli2888]

Just buy a nice 20 years old BMW and your fine!

[@connorscanlon6289]

I am actually very optimistic for BMW in the future based off of the iX and the new 7… I think things are a bit disorganized right now as they still try to figure out exactly where they are going, but a lot of the underlying tech and talent for the products is industry leading, and I think once they are able to get their ducks in a row, they will have some really fantastic cars in the next 5-10 years. As for design, I’m hopeful they got the message, and will refine a new design language much like they did in the early 2010s following their experiments in design in the 2000s. The same goes for iDrive, which was super awkward when it was first released, but slowly evolved into one of the best systems on the market. I would not buy this car, but I look forward to the cars to follow.

[@clark5583]

The whole EV switch feels more and more like a scam to me. Maybe i'm so frustrated right now due to electricity prices in Germany and general EV prices. But i don't see myself getting a GTI electric equivalent any time soon. It doesn't exist, and when it will, it will be much more expensive, much heavier with a 1 screen touch-only UI with a 150km of range on the Autobahn.

[@maxcactus7]

A $100,000+ disposable car with a short shelf life. Wonderful.

[@anydaynow01]

Should go well with the buyer's 1000$ disposable phone they can't change the battery in by themselves. 🤣

[@cadriver2570]

It’s no more disposable than most luxury vehicles. The maintenance is a fraction of what you’d spend with a Cayenne, and lower running costs.

[@hissingoose]

@@cadriver2570 what have energy prices been doing lately? in the country i'm in they've doubled over the past year. they will in the USA as well, especially with the way things are going there now LOL

[@aussie2uGA]

@@hissingoose Charge it with solar panels. Geesh, energy is energy but you can't "make" gasoline like you can electricity.

[@Mr-ed5ep]

I drove one of these at a demo event. I wasn't impressed in any way. That's a sad statement for a powerful, new, and very different vehicle.

[@cwx8]

EVs just aren't impressive. At all. Once you get over acceleration, they're boring. And you WILL get used to the power. Always happens.

[@Mr-ed5ep]

@@cwx8 I'm familiar with electric motors in commercial applications, do I look forward to that aspect. EVs have a ton of potential, though it will make them more dangerous than ICE. I just hated everything else about the model. Looks, feel, layout, even performance. I love SG but I wasn't impressed by performance for its weight. It did feel heavy to me.

[@jonlosito2004]

@@Mr-ed5ep I mean there's gonna be an M version soon

[@Mr-ed5ep]

@@jonlosito2004 and?

[@TheChannel1978]

Another great video. This channel is just on a different level. Jack's and Mark's different personalities and tastes make for great discussion points and usually also a ton of fun.

[@BestCaseHypothesis]

Cars like this make the most sense for subscription model car ownership "services", or "Cars as a service". Just like cell phone upgrade plans of today. Pay a monthly fee, and turn it in after X years.

[@anydaynow01]

Yeah I can't imagine buying anything like this it would have to be a lease. But then again it is a commuting appliance even so I could careless about owning it anyway, I just hope the lease terms are reasonable.

[@user-qc7dr3cd3q]

That appears to be the plan.

[@aussie2uGA]

Klaus Schwab says you'll own nothing and be happy. It's starting to appear many aspects of society are starting to be "reimagined"

[@codincoman9019]

@@aussie2uGA there is a new way of communism, now through "eco"-Marxism, lgbtqetc. convenient to / driven by the rich corporations/"elites".

[@mserica6487]

I think when these cars get the majority in the marketplace, the value of gasoline cars will skyrocket. Seeing this interior makes me feel stressed thinking about having to drive it.

[@povertyspec9651]

Years from now, when all gas stations are shut down, people will hoard gas ahead of that time and it will be traded like drugs.

[@bradcarpenter1881]

You guys are driving around in Lake County / McHenry County, I recognized Neville Rd and Darrell Rd back roads I drive all the time! I've always wondered who's responsible for laying down rubber burn marks on Neville Rd and now I realize those are some Savage geese burn outs!

[@bradcarpenter1881]

29:12 just noticed the street sign when you were turning off Dowell onto Neville, i knew it! You guys are the ones laying down rubber on those back roads! Doubt you will see this comment but if you do just know you have A HUGE fan living in these neck of the woods and would love to meet you guys if you ever decide to do an event!

[@victorfrombcn]

Even though I believe you're spot on most of the time, there's a couple of things I digress, and I'm pretty sure time will confirm it. a) this is not a hyper-disposable car. Batteries and EVs are evolving, but the increase in battery performance and capacity is slowing down year by year. In 5-years this car will still be competitive in terms of performance and capacity. b) In terms of maintenance, BMW is one of the few manufactures that allows external workshops to diagnose and replace individual modules of a battery. So there is no need to replace the whole battery if one cell fails. This is the opposite to Tesla, specifically the latest Model Y which is a repair nightmare. Taking into account a 1000-cycle lifetime for the battery before it degrades below 80%, the iX could easily hit a 300,000 mile life before requiring a battery change due to degradation. c) 800volt vs 400volt. It's an improvement but not a revolution. Most chargers do not support it yet, and due to chemistry the overall charging power is usually still maintained at 1C. There needs to be a revolution in battery chemistry in order to reach 2C or higher. the 800volt architecture will allow BMW to increase peak charging, specially between 10 to 80%, but most of the time you won't be needing it. (95% of all charges happen at home). d) Next BMW architecture using the newest motors and batteries won't make this car obsolete. It will increase capacity and also reduce weight and volume. But most top-of-the range cars will still stay at around 80-100kWh. The reduction in weight and volume will allow for slight increase in space and also more flexible designs and lower consumptions, but don't expect getting below 10-15 kWh/100km.

[@oliverrugg3732]

Look at the eco friendly way in which we peeled this cow and nailed it to the dashboard.

[@stevenjordan-smith8922]

Has to be the best EV review I've ever seen. 1000% appreciate the honesty in the review and definitely learned a few things! Thank you!!

[@jonlosito2004]

Good thing you and Doug DeMuro have opposite opinions 😂😂 But FR.. keep up with the great content 👍

[@VS666]

well here we are again, i watched yet another 37min video of a car i couldn't care less about, thanks mister goose

[@cwx8]

Mark the seats look like the Z4 seats explaining the headrest speakers.

[@peterhammer4644]

With a 800V system and a better looking front this would be almost a perfect EV. I sat yesterday in one and the interior is fantastic.

[@florinvid]

You'll get to like that front end with time, you'll see

[@fiderhit]

Interesting thoughts. I own a IX50 (no lease, by the way), and I love it. No other car has ever made me feel so relaxed behind the wheel. Regarding your "not a next gen car"-remark: would you consider a Hyundai Ioniq 5 (with the 800 volt architecture and the updated battery management system) a car that you buy for many years to come (instead of just 3 years:-)...)? Greetings from Belgium.

[@matthewschneller]

Thank you for talking about what everyone else keeps quiet about

[@garbonzobean1]

To their discussion about the cost of replacing a battery pack in 10 years...you wont be able to. Because even if it becomes cost-efficient to do so, that generation of battery pack wont even be made. When your battery goes, "check out our new car models that just came in!"

[@Wasssup3232]

The Packs the Nissan Leaf use can be put in the old models to extend the range and get a new pack. The big limitation will be IF the manufacturers decide to “software lock” the battery to their newer vehicles. I don’t doubt that would happen

[@garbonzobean1]

@@Wasssup3232 A new pack replacement costs anywhere from $5500-$18500. Swapping in a used pack, with cells as low as 80% efficiency can run upwards of $12000. This is upwards of 50% of the purchase cost of a Gen1 Leaf. A Gen2 Leaf runs around $46k but a replacement battery will cost more to replace now and in the future since the metals needed are very rare, increasing in demand and very expensive to mine and refine in the production process.

[@Anya-Prime]

Well fuck it’s growing on me. What the hell? It’s like an ultraluxury EV wagon that you just have to avoid looking at from the front. Best sound system, some of the best tuning, solid range, advanced chassis, an honestly beautiful interior… It’s not in my price range but I’m shocked at how compelling this is. Also oh goodie, let’s talk about fast charging speeds and range and batteries in 10 years… I just don’t get it guys, who is road tripping 100k cars in such a hurry that a 30 minute stop every couple of hours is a deal breaker? Who lives in the middle of nowhere red state ruralia buying a six figure German luxury and complaining that they can’t make it to the nearby city and back without charging? This is for people with houses and garages in NYC suburbs or California or wherever who drive 15 miles per day and occasionally take their family up to the mountain or the beach. You guys overestimate how spread out stuff is in the areas wealthy people live. And regarding the battery longevity - yes, this may be disposable and replacing the battery sounds like a nightmare, but where are you guys getting the idea that batteries last 10 years at most? Long range EVs that have made it past 100k or even 200k miles still have the vast majority of their range left with modern BMS and cells. Aside from (usually in warranty) pack failures, the only cars that have actually lost significant capacity have been very early EVs and non-temperature controlled packs in Leafs and the such. Sure, a 350m range may not be impressive in 10 years but it seems manufacturers don’t seem to be interested in boosting range much past where they are now. All the new platforms are targeting 300 miles except for upstarts like Lucid and very slippery cars like the EQS. We may have more efficient cells, slightly faster charging, and lighter platforms, but manufacturers are putting money into better cells for cheaper and lighter packs. While I wish that solid state and other tech will lead to 600 mile range 150kwh sedans and stuff, it will just lead to cheaper base models with the same 60kwh capacity and 250-300 miles ranges. Hell, even BMW said in a press release they weren’t going to target EV ranges beyond 300 miles.

[@savagegeese]

We live in one of the largest suburbs in America, weathy on top of it. We don't have charging infrastructure and most places we go is 20 min one way. It all adds up. And to go to Electrify america charger it's another 20 minutes and usually over crowded or broken. Then to add 35min to charge 70% sucks. Period. I have this argument with Californians all the time who live in a bubble and don't travel to "normal" murica.

[@Anya-Prime]

@@savagegeese ok, fair enough, I wouldn’t say charging infrastructure is by any means well developed, but I still think it’s decently well developed for a large portion of driving needs. I get it - I’m on the Eastern mid Atlantic seaboard and while all the major travel corridors are flooded with chargers, as soon as you get off the interstates and up into the mountains you really have to search for chargers. I still think the Midwest is a bit of an exception to how most huge population centers are, but there’s no doubt that there’s large swaths of the nation that are subpar or unusable for EV travel. Charger reliability is also a major problem that underlines how thin existing chargers are spread out, but I think that’s quickly expanding if you take a look at what people experienced just 2-4 years ago. I remember a major car review mag had a couple of cars stranded or didn’t finish because the charging infrastructure was crap but today most travel routes have enough capacity for usable travel. Two additional notes: - One, the charging network is more of a personal decision for a car buyer rather than a dig at any particular EV (aside from Tesla due to super chargers), and since the standard is unlikely to change any time soon, current and older EVs on CCS aren’t really going to become deprecated for use. - Two, that’s not really the point of what I keep saying about you guys. Most current EV drivers don’t in fact use EVs jumping between fast chargers (and while apartment dwellers are going to be a massive hurdle to onboard, even there the solution is overnight chargers rather than making fast chargers comparable to gas stations). Most people have home chargers and could probably get by without gas in a PHEV, save for a couple yearly trips. Even if they do need something else for the yearly trip upstate, people cars in this price range often have second. It’s kind of like driving a truck year round for the yearly Home Depot run for plywood and mulch - sure, people want that, but it doesn’t accurately describe their average driving. Most people that can afford EVs don’t drive long distance - they may road trip to the next metropolis over or the beach but anything over 500 miles is a flight. This is particularly evident for luxury EVs - owners that can afford those can afford domestic flights even for smaller trips and value their time over perhaps some comfort driving. So yes, the charging system still sucks and it’s nowhere near as convenient to road trip EVs as it is gas cars, but it’s like you guys overlook how pleasant EV ownership is for daily driving. I won’t disagree that the fast charger network has ways to go and is unlikely to ever be as quick as filling a tank. It’s just that for the vast majority of people, including in more spread out states, fast charging is likely to be a rare event. I know I wrote a damn essay in response and I don’t expect you to read it, so I’m sorry for that. I will concede that the ease of use of EVs for daily driving is or should be self evident so it makes sense to talk about their weaknesses in rarer situations. I guess it’s like when you take street cars to the track to see their real limit dynamics even though most people will commute with them. Maybe it’s not fair to expect you to positive towards EVs when you often disparage them anyway for driving experience reason. I still really appreciate your driver focused reviews compared to the dearth of tech reviewers on EVs listing numbers and touching screens instead of driving them. But yes, I get your concern - I may not be in California but I admit my area doesn’t fairly represent the majority (by area) of America so your guys’ take is valuable. Can I also ask why you bother with public charging in your suburb? I couldn’t tell you the nearest charger because I’ve never used one closer than 50 miles away.

[@savagegeese]

@@Anya-Prime Your explanations are well thought out and true. I read every word. EVs are mostly a joy to drive. The iX for almost every reason you mention is great. What we are fighting on our end is a multi layer issue. Tha fact like companies launched EVs with no national support or even availability in colder climates. Even Ioniq5, It's not available in every state. So we get left with cars like this that are not even attainable for most people. And brands are just not honest about the technology. The sustainable "green" image when 70% of EVs are leased. I mean we could have a 2 day chat about all of the bases that are not covered including cost to repair, proprietary battery tech, down the cell and software layer that makes it impossible to repair and service long term. Also the fact these brands are treating these ultra expensive bricks like smartphones. I mean again outside of charging issues we know already most brands won't support the first gen products long term. They can't even answer questions about service and support. So you have to understand we are VERY worried for consumers.