Scene Breakdown: Section 31 Interrogates Georgiou?

[@waltermc3906]

The dude straight out FLINCHED when he was asked "who is really in charge?", and then evaded the question at his first opportunity. Out of the whole scene i do believe that that moment is the most informative. There is a higher authority in the shadows, one that scares someone whom we are meant to see as an equal to the Empress in guile and cunning. One that probably knows what caused the Burn.

[@BadwolfGamer]

Hmm in theory it could have been The Terran Empire which caused it.

[@megathelos4976]

I do hope they explore those shadows...if written well, it could lead to something fascinating.

[@artembentsionov]

@@BadwolfGamer that would imply that the STO storyline is canon and that the Terran rebels reformed the empire

[@maisiesummers42]

@@BadwolfGamer Good theory, though I'm more inclined to think that Section 31 caused it by accident.

[@badwolf66]

@@maisiesummers42 Thanks! (This is my main account) Accidently on purpose while using The Terrans as escape goats! *[THE PLOT THICKENS]*

[@TheVoided666]

David Cronenberg and Michelle Yeoh in a scene together, I am so hyped.

[@michaelmoraga2926]

That scene was the best thing Discovery has produced so far...

[@mikicerise6250]

It's amazing how well they play off each other. :)

[@ericmumper6821]

Theory: He put faulty holos in to give Georgiou a false sense of superiority.

[@blairbrown4812]

Except Terrans(particularly one in Georgiou's position)are always expecting traps and/or betrayal,never relaxed or truly at ease,mistrustful of everyone and everything and often patiently waiting for the 🔪 in the back. It's a vicious(and often confusing)cycle:Georgiou's often expecting a trap,so every trick used against her is tailored with this assumption in mind. But how do you entrap or betray someone who is constantly expecting traps or betrayal,who suspects everyone? 🤔

[@daniels7907]

That would make sense. Georgiou is going to be less guarded if she believes that she can easily control the situation. He was indifferent to what she was doing to the holograms (even shrugging) because they were unimportant for the purpose of getting information out of her. Just the opposite: she was likely to reveal more about herself if she believed that she was the smartest person in the room.

[@SeansModelBuilds]

@@blairbrown4812 You feign outrage at their suspicious nature and then when they drop their guard, you attack.

[@blairbrown4812]

@@SeansModelBuilds The question now becomes:who feigns first?

[@SeansModelBuilds]

@@blairbrown4812 Whoever does may win first. Office Politics is only fun if you are winning. Otherwise it is horribly unfair and you rage impotently against 'The Rigged System.'

[@annieworroll4373]

I'm betting that guy is Terran, his glasses are to deal with the light sensitivity mentioned in Disco S1.

[@edsr164]

I agree

[@scottishadonis]

Yes because that would not be something easily fixed in the 32nd century at all…

[@lancepagtakhan19]

was a good theory but season 5 sums it up

[@scottishadonis]

@@lancepagtakhan19 Although it’s infinitely more believable than it being Daniel’s, Daniel’s would be nearly 400 years old since he was born in the 29th century (Enterprise) and it’s end of the 32nd century, in STD when he declares the “red directive” over to a certain Mickey Spock.

[@CASA-dy4vs]

Light sensitivity isn’t canon apparently.

[@Excalibur01]

Also notice the man with the glasses actually touching his glasses during point of the debriefing. Either it's a natural movement, or it's a tell...or he's adjusting it for someone else viewing from it

[@daniels7907]

He handed over his comm badge while locked in a cell with a genocidal maniac! Either he's so brave that he makes Klingons look like kindergartners or else he was quite confident that any serious move from Georgiou would trigger a rapid response from Security. The glasses could definitely be the reason.

[@TheAsvarduilProject]

I wonder if the glasses are themselves a programmable matter control interface of some kind, since apparently programmable matter interfaces like those installed on Discovery are tailored to be instinctual for their assigned user. If my theory holds, he was probably doing all manner of things while interviewing Mirror Georgiou. I wonder if he managed to fake her out on the whole "You broke my holos!" thing. If so, he's the craftiest SOB we've encountered so far.

[@davwri01]

Having the benefit of seeing Georgiou's future blackouts, I suspect those glasses arec connected somehow. Savouring her facile de-activation of the holos, Philippa became somewhat disarmed to Cronenberg's debriefing approach. He clearly did something to her here, and we see her unraveling ensue. And so begin other theories: screenrant.com/star-trek-discovery-georgiou-mirror-merging-theory/

[@nomercyinc6783]

@@TheAsvarduilProject programmable matter is the stupidest thing ever. was stupid in transformers was stupid here. the bluetooth nacelles couldnt operate regardless of programmable matter.

[@LemonToGo]

Georgiou is quickly becoming one of my favorite star trek characters.

[@Locutus.Borg.]

Agreed. See my comment above... _"Emperor Georgiou is one of the most fascinating and remarkable characters in all of Star Trek. Particularly in the years following Star Trek: Voyager."_

[@Locutus.Borg.]

@@redeemer66666 Also true. Although the character of Emperor Georgiou is not the reason for the series failure of this series. Michelle Yeoh's performance as both captain Philippa Georgiou and Emperor Georgiou is the one of the few shinning light in a series that has thumbed its nose at Start Trek lore and traditions.

[@ahcokris]

this was the best part of the episode and of the season.

[@sealance]

As much as I find Discovery "meh", Georgiou has grown on me.

[@danbhakta]

After 3 years of this garbage...this is actually the first scene I consider memorable. I draw a complete blank to everything else.

[@Ramipon]

I understand the complaint that Emperor Georgiou hasnt been given to do much this season so far... but I am annoyed when some "fans" vent their frustration by attacking Michelle Yeoh

[@millerlou7294]

Yeah she's a great actress, fans should attack Alex Kurtzman and all those incompetent writers.

[@Locutus.Borg.]

Michelle Yeoh is the one shinning light in a series that was more interested in being a champion for identity politics than to remain faithful to Star Trek lore and traditions. Emperor Georgiou is one of the most fascinating and remarkable characters in all of Star Trek. Particularly in the years following Star Trek: Voyager.

[@nomercyinc6783]

the terrans need to figure out how to stay in their lane.

[@astonbailey-fong1178]

That interrogator guy is probably going to be a Terran himself. Why else would he express such an interest in her, and know a lot about the Mirror Universe?

[@Bolsonaro_em_Haia]

For the same reason why we love Mirror Universe episodes, perhaps? Because it is often challenging and fun to deal with people with entirely different frames of reference from our own? And also because the Mirror Universe is a known danger to his own reality and has been for centuries?

[@Gerolkae]

Until this video I didn't think spooky 4 eyes was Terran. It does make a very interesting plot. Again this comes back to Disco's escape from the mirror universe... Mushroom Drive and Warp Drive both operational and active at the same time with some dead spores caused by Terrans.. Perhaps this instant Lead to the universes separation. I'm thinking Some side effects or unintentional consequences... The Mushroom sphere exploded, But we don't know the effects... there could be a link in the mushroom root system where they caused the separation. It is like another dimension in space.

[@astonbailey-fong1178]

@@Bolsonaro_em_Haia But then again, he mentions how the two universes have drifted apart to the point where crossings are a rarity. Perhaps he's trying to find his way back home through her? We'll probably learn in future episodes.

[@gateauxq4604]

If there hasn’t been contact with the mirror universe for over 500 years then why would anyone still have an interest in it? Yeah something else is going on here.

[@Bolsonaro_em_Haia]

@@gateauxq4604 Militaristic empires are worth keeping an eye on, don't you think?

[@GabrielBoeri]

I know it may be crazy and probably impossible, but i really would love a Trek series showing a war of the Federation against the Terran Empire.

[@kinggoten]

wouldn't be exactly that but I'd love many of the story arcs in STO expanded on and made into shows/movies, like the temporal war(the Terrans are a big part of that). But I don't think it would ever happen this season of discovery at least has been very refreshing its getting there its hard to see it as the same show as the first two seasons but its getting there if the rest of this season and season 4 are at least as good as the first 5 of this season, and i never thought i would say this I hope it gets renewed beyond season 4.

[@keithallver2450]

I would love a series set in the mirror universe about the birth, and conquests of the Terran Empire.

[@brunolabrador7472]

Put the dominion in it and I will watch it

[@insertanynameyouwant5311]

honestly the obsession with Mirror Universe of terrans is ridiculous. Remember TNG when there were millions of Enterpises each from different Universe? But only the one that has Terrans gets attention. Others are just being ignored

[@SVSky]

Federation wouldn't last 10 seconds. Humans in ruthless mode will challenge the most bloothirsty Klingon

[@hiddentrailvideo6992]

Fun fact: Only Cronenberg can pull that oversized glasses look and even he is just barely doing it.

[@BioGoji-zm5ph]

Cronenberg? Hold on... are you saying that guy is... DAVID CRONENBERG?!

[@franklin6319]

@@BioGoji-zm5ph yes he is David Cronenberg

[@creativerealms]

@@BioGoji-zm5ph yes. I knew he looked familiar and had to look up who it was. It's him.

[@daniels7907]

It's always great to see a director who can act!

[@ryancoulter4797]

Elvis Costello

[@r.a.o.c.2592]

This woman was the only reason I gave Discovery a chance....so justified.

[@reubencarter3004]

Michelle Yeou is fantastic as Georgiou. What an amazing actor. Beautiful and evil at the same time.

[@Locutus.Borg.]

And NEVER on screen for long enough. When she appears on screen with a purpose the whole series lifts.

[@dswynne]

Point of fact: "holiday" is short-hand for "holy day". And, you're right about not being "religious" to observe a "holy day". I mean, we have, in the US, several secular "holidays" that we observe besides the traditional ones. It just means that we take a day of the year for observance for whatever the occasion. Also, IMO, the holos were purposely downgraded to prevent "sentience".

[@blairbrown4812]

Clearly, certain things never fully recovered from the A.I. ban being rescinded.

[@lordtrini]

The federation caused the burn. They were experimenting on a new weapon or propulsion type and it back fired. They maybe trying to jump to a new Dimension with a device modulated with diluhtium and it sent a shockwave back across our dimension. Or the beings in that dimension send the burn shockwave back.

[@juniorbacon]

Watch the trailer for the next episode.ichsel says something the we caused it or we are responsible.

[@robgyanisu312]

I beg to differ: Burnham programmed the _Red Angel_ to go back through the wormhole and self-destruct after sending the last signal. Chances are better than even that her suit reentered the wormhole moments before carrying out the self-destruct order, thus causing the _Burn._

[@lordtrini]

@@robgyanisu312 hmmm. The fact that star fleet had a secret sub space net and hid the data it collected.

[@tayanasummers]

"Biplicitous by our duology," is wordplay to further confuse the holos. They said she was *du*plicitous by her *bi*ology, so she switched it around to confuse them. From a linguistic perspective, well-done. Inventing synonyms on the spot and making puns to confuse an AI that may not be able to handle such things isn't a bad way to achieve her ends.

[@shankleythebest]

"in the prime universe the Vulcans are often evil", you're going to have to elaborate.

[@AJ-ht7ms]

Maybe he meant Vulcans without logic and emotional control. Pretty sure they are described as more aggressive without it.

[@golferal]

Agreed. There also a few other incorrect statements & references in this breakdown. Example - he says that the two mains characters are kept at the same eye level, yet there are one or two scenes where the camera was behind him looking down over his shoulder and you could clearly tell that he was standing and she was sitting. Also, I'm reasonably sure that she was up to something when she was fiddling with the components from his badge after she stomped on it. I have a couple of theories about her origins - one is that she is actually from the future and/ or she could also be infected with some technology from section 31/ Control. It's only a hunch, but something is definitely up with her...

[@frankt9156]

Romulan?

[@nomercyinc6783]

he said romulans wrong

[@daniels7907]

The lack of motivation is meant to emphasize that Terrans are often very impulse-driven. The main reason they aren't randomly running around killing each other all the time is because they are *all* like that and they have to exercise caution lest the predator become the prey. But the Terran Empire is really just an exercise in barely-restrained violence. Which makes the Terrans effective conquerors, but also limited the longevity of their Empire because once they have conquered somebody else they cannot rule well *because* they are so prone to acting on impulse rather than reason. Even Georgiou, whose self-control is exceptional for a Terran, still periodically has outbursts of sudden violence. As if she is venting the need to do so. So with Terrans it may be inverted: they *look* for motivations to justify their impulses, rather than starting from motivation. As the interrogator observes: they built an empire because they *felt* like it.

[@joeljohnson3515]

At first the guy reminded me of Martin Landau. However, it just hit me. He reminds me of the late René Auberjonois

[@ErikOrellana]

I really love your cinematography breakdown of scenes. Insightful as always!!

[@danlaplante]

I love that you pronounce her last name properly when no one else on the shows does!

[@FilipiVianna]

He is from the mirror universe. The glasses is because he has the same light sensitivity as Captain Gabriel Lorca had.

[@jessmith7324]

I loved this dialogue. Reminds me of the DS9 ep with kira and the pretend cardassian mass murder

[@BulletHole]

if they just found the chimeric gene 100 years ago... and there hasnt been a crossing in 500 years? which is it?

[@themadmonk6700]

Experiments on what they already had access to. Duh. Some hidden facility where they experiment on DNA that isn't supposed to exist. . There were many opportunities to gain samples. Didn't Sisko flat out bang one of the alternates when pretending to be himself? As well as Captain Lorca, he had to have had some required physicals that Section 31 probably jumped on. That is if it isn't a lie or disputed fact they were hoping to rattle her with.

[@BulletHole]

ya i realized the flaw in my logic right after i commented, i agree totally easy for samples to have been checked after.. but it does imply then a little more than is directly stated. and they mention the standard protocol for terrans, when there has obviously been a major shake up at star fleet since the last crossing, and i found his wording of "single" crossing in 500 years interesting too. So to make what he said true, but still hiding the truth, which feels his style, would be he is from the mirror universe, and is genetically altered to live longer, and or was frozen like kahn or is kahn.... and that the burn was the mirror universe trying to bring the two back together and the remnants are this mysterious melody

[@SC-mq1eh]

There could be a group that has been in the "prime universe" (ie maybe even glasses dude) and set up base - since before the "divergence" of the universes and escape the downfall of the terran empire

[@BulletHole]

also i dont think Lore Reloaded mentioned this, but the glasses would be to shield from bright lights like like how the established terrans are sensitive to light

[@y0uCantHandle]

@@BulletHole Also... 100+ years ago: The great burn happened Starfleet: Quick, lets suddenly analyse some old Terran DNA for no reason

[@blairbrown4812]

"Section 31 interrogates Georgiou?" More like Georgiou found a way to effectively run Section 31 from the shadows for millenia,even when she wasn't physically present.

[@nihilityjoey]

This wasnt just an interrogation. This was a scene where i believe shes been put under some form of mind control, turned into a sleeper agent. That's why she was acting all funny.

[@y0uCantHandle]

It was the glasses.. they were projecting something into her brain

[@nihilityjoey]

@@y0uCantHandle could be, I'll have to watch it over again to get a better look.

[@y0uCantHandle]

@@nihilityjoey its only a theory based on the fact that its a piece of technology thats been outdated for over 1000 years and its cultural significance (make me look smart) has been lost for just as long

[@nihilityjoey]

@@y0uCantHandle same, it's just a theory.

[@ru14jazz]

The glasses are the key to this scene.

[@susanthorpe3058]

Glad to see the doctor FINALLY made it home . Doctor served as the surgical chancellor for the Kyrians "Living Witness" is the 91st episode Star Trek: Voyager BACKUP PROGRAM

[@GrantLaFlecheReporter]

The "holy day" is a reference to First Contact. We see those events play in out mirror universe episodes of Enterprise.

[@LoreReloaded]

They describe it , yea

[@rybsmith]

@@LoreReloaded they don't just describe it. The Enterprise mirror arch starts with first contact. The vulcan comes down the ramp of the survey ship makes the live long and prosper hand sign, Cochran tries and fails to imitate it and guns the vulcan down with his shotgun.

[@cifsman]

Georgiou are the reason i keep watching discovery. She so fascinating

[@johnwang9914]

A sensitivity to a harmonic frequency would be very unlikely for an AI or a hologram, the first has to be programmed to identify what it senses and ignores what it is not programmed for and the latter is a display technology. However, the blinking could be a backdoor section 31 placed in AI's in general. Using this backdoor identifies Georgio to section 31, it was her password to section 31.

[@DanielDavis1973]

I have to admit that Terran Georgiou has become one of my favorite Trek characters. I would've liked to have seen some on screen time for Terran Tilly though.

[@bencjr]

yup l liked killy too

[@sophiawilson8696]

We never saw her it report as soon they arrive they were killed.

[@DanielDavis1973]

@@sophiawilson8696 hence my comment about "seen some on screen time" Also, we dont actually know they were all killed (although it is likely). The admiral only says that she saw the wreckage herself. She never mentioned bodies so there is a plot hole to write in Killy's survival if the show wanted to.

[@Locutus.Borg.]

We also never got to see Terran Michael Burnham either. I also would like to have seen a scene where Terran Tilly and Star Trek universe Tilly come face to face. Emperor Georgiou is the best character in this series and the best Star Trek character IMO in a long, long while. At least since Star Trek: Voyager. Along with Anson Mount's portrayal of Captain Christopher Pike.

[@kamenwaticlients]

I don't think that last part was bad writing. The Man in Glasses knows she is the emperor so I'm guessing he has her section 31 file and already knows about her relationship with Burnham in the mirror verse and how it extends to is one. Overall I loved this scene.

[@hamobu]

A lot of dialog is a power play where you try to make the other person the object of the conversation with becoming that yourself.

[@cmj0929]

Actually Enterprise showed that the Vulcan ship that landed was the same class that landed during first contact, only in the Terran timeline zephram Cochran shot the Vulcan and they pillaged the ship

[@fireofargentis]

arent people (or at least humans) of the mirror universe slightly more photosensitive?

[@williestyle35]

Yes, it was stated that way in a previous episode of Discovery.

[@ZoeMalDoran]

Only in Discovery. There was never any hint of it in TOS, DS9, or Enterprise

[@Voidwurm1701]

@@ZoeMalDoran The only semi hints in the other shows was that Mirror Universe locations were almost always darker, except in TOS.

[@springtime1838]

The head of S31 is the Master of Body Horror!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Run Empress!

[@daniels7907]

Honestly, I'm amazed he doesn't have trained Betazoids who can make heads explode like Scanners.

[@asj1758]

‘This is just bad writing and it’s dumb’. That’s baseless conjecture dressed up and asserted as fact with absolutely nothing offered to support it. That sort of criticism - especially in a video where you diligently point out the reason for the choices in direction and writing - rings hollow and undermines the video when it isn’t backed up by your reasoning, opinions, logic, or accompanying facts, in my opinion. In essence, ‘that’s a bad criticism and it’s dumb’. The rest of the video was really interesting. You made a very good point regarding him not answering a certain question and why.

[@LoreReloaded]

I addressed it multiple times and so why I didn’t here .. or so my reasoning

[@asj1758]

@@LoreReloaded You addressed what you said was bad writing and dumb about that line In other videos?

[@toonezon4836]

Not sure if its intentional, but the way georgeo breaks the holos, is kinda similar to how kirk & co broke Harry Mud's gynoids in "I, Mud" & maybe l little similar to how they broke LANDRU in "Return of the Arkans"

[@Pahjx]

Fans complain that Georgeo's blinking destroying the holos was ridiculous, but what Kirk, Spock, Mudd, and company did to destroy the gynoids... THAT was ridiculous!

[@toonezon4836]

@@Pahjx but what about what they did to LANDRU, before the Beta 3 ingabidents eventually repaired them/it & started worshiping it again?

[@sideshowkazstuff3867]

I love his really obvious clip on tie. And a shirt and suit with tie.

[@terranempire2]

Given how the modern Suit evolved it makes some sense. Over generations cheats and progressive choices move from fads to trends even cheap ones could shift to become ornamental. The style of his suit coat is unique, that high lapel style was a thing in the Mod Fashion yet not as much today a covered fly it’s both futuristic yet anachronistic.

[@Bolsonaro_em_Haia]

It is a bit of an old-fashioned look _today_, let alone in the 32nd century. If this is his regular outfit, he must be an exotic duck indeed. Come to think of it, maybe he is an hologram himself? Past holograms in Trek tended to favor exotic outfits. If I had to explain it, I would consider deciding that he chose an intentionally exagerated retro look in order to establish a more predictable baseline for her reactions - and to keep her guessing. I don't think that he will keep that outfit for very long, if at all. Granted, there is a good chance that we won't see him again at all... I find the knot consistent with that effect. It looks like cheap, rigid plastic to me. For all I know it is the 32nd century's best guess at what people used to wear in formal situations back in 1950. Or it may be a deliberate oddity to enhance the disorientation and guessing from Giorgiou.

[@terranempire2]

@@Bolsonaro_em_Haia That is not a formal suit. It’s a casual suit. It’s not 50s style it’s 60-70s style in some aspects. The color is very casual work. Suits are still worn today and we know are worn throughout TNG. Picard wore 3 suits in Picard. His interview was a modified tweed, his meeting was more modern and his safari suit. The guy who’s name escapes me that was waiting at the relay station was wearing a Nahru suit which is still a type of suit just lacking a cravat. There are lots of different types of of knots and ties for a suit so it’s again hard to say on his look would have to get more of it. Even the flash of something under the cravat could be a form of accessory. They come and go from men’s wear but tie pins and the like are well established. If there was something that flagged as obvious plant it’s his spectacles. Star Trek has gone out of its way to delete eye glasses from screen appearances as far back as TOS.

[@anubhavpal5782]

moreover his com badge was golden. Maybe he is someone really important in the ranks

[@terranempire2]

@@anubhavpal5782 or they code Federation gold, Starfleet silver.

[@dkoz8321]

Even Data and Lor had blinking algorithm.

[@darransykes3406]

Horror film director, David Cronenberg!! He is as awesome in front of the camera as he is behind it......

[@joshuahillerup4290]

She didn't come by circumstance. She could have left on the Enterprise instead of going with Discovery

[@LoreReloaded]

She was on discovery by circumstance and stayed to avoid starfleet

[@OrbinHD]

@@LoreReloaded I might should rewatch last season, but I thought she stayed because of Michael? After all, Michael (MU)was like a daughter to her?

[@LoreReloaded]

In season 2 - she might have been. It was horrifically written and bad story telling.

[@nopenope1]

@@LoreReloaded isn't it due to - circumstances - that the Spin-off wasn't working, no funding - and she was available ;)

[@LVRugger]

@@LoreReloaded I have a long-running theory about her and Disco. She had access to the Defiant's logs and looked up herself and her friends in our universe. She found out that Michael was killed when Discovery was "destroyed" but she found some record of herself post that time. She must have figured out that she went to the future with Michael and returned pre-Discovery era where she worked in the shadows. This is how Section 31 created the original red angel suit that Michael's mother used. So, Philippa is going to take Discovery back 1000 years and star on the new Section 31 show, leave the ship in the nebula where she achieved sentience (as in Calypso) and the crew will end up back with the ship for season 4 of Discovery. Convoluted, but I think it hits all the marks.

[@TwentySixStudio]

We did see the Terrans interacting with the Vulcans for the first time in Enterprise. It was largely a shot for shot remake of the scene from First Contact but Cochrane uses a shotgun against them and then leads the charge to take the ship.

[@rhodrage]

It's refreshing seeing a video on Discovery that isn't blindly hating it. I understand it has its flaws but I've been enjoying it.

[@harvey1965]

Is it my faulty observation or did anyone else notice the man in glasses rapidly blinked twice at Georgiou (as if communicating) that blinking was significant- was it a moment of communication? Did the man in glasses want the holograms deactivated? There's potentially more happening here than we yet realise.

[@ascaniusvotan2319]

Also he shows her to blink. He does it multiptle times, while she is looking at him.

[@alphacentauri7302]

Very fascinating, intriguing and most logical! Live long and prosper! 🖖🏼

[@tavonbrown1067]

I honestly think he's the one in charge and could possibly be control

[@theonlyjacknicole]

Now THAT is a scary, but plausible thought.

[@something6165]

He could be in charge but i definitely dont think his control

[@Aurora2097]

That "councillor" is the absolute badass character of season 3 and by far my favourite discovery character!

[@DigitalDistortion]

Thank you for the upload. I think Section 31 is so interesting.

[@MegaParrotMan]

It seems in the future where things are limited, making a floating chair and table seems like a waste of resources.

[@brunolabrador7472]

Unless anti-gravity devices are so dirt cheap putting legs on a chair would be more expensive. Or because of the money they save on writing this seasons scripts while snoozing on the toilet they need to blow the budget on unnecessary FX

[@Automatik234]

I really enjoy this cahracter. I hope, he appears in many episodes to come.

[@Hellserch]

“Word salad “, long time, no see. An excellent analysis.

[@Kingofgibraltar]

A superb breakdown. Thank you.

[@___Me.]

This is an excellent breakdown. Thank you

[@treklad]

I'm a simple creature. I see Star Trek David Cronenberg and I click.

[@thomashill6347]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this part of the episode.

[@Jess3200]

"There are conflicting theories, but no hard proof pointing at any one particular bad guy" - This could technically be an answer to both questions...

[@kilo1012]

Random unsubstantiated theory: he's DESCENDED from Terran refugees who came over in the last crossover. So his fascination as a boy would be akin to an American child hearing his great great grandfather came from Norway who then develops a fascination with the Viking age

[@ahcokris]

"because I feel like it", is my favourite and most powerful motivation. so she gets brownie points from me.

[@MrUself]

So section 31 has a thing of recruiting or being infiltrated by Terrans from Mirror Universe .... 🤔😏

[@ladymecha8718]

We now know, David Cronenberg is playing Agent Daniel from way back from Star Trek Enterprise.

[@short72hp1]

I have to say I enjoyed this back and forth it's probably the best in my opinion although it is not perfect writing

[@Chuck-PK]

Georgiou: the weakness of people is other people Me: you're not wrong, but it's actually the lack thereof

[@Robert_Douglass]

8:03 nice bit of logic and deduction there.

[@johansmallberries9874]

Haha I didn’t notice that her blinking actually gets a sound effect.

[@KMooreUKONE11]

This was best part for me.

[@ru14jazz]

He says the glasses aren't for him to see with they make him feel smart. One would figure that by the time of the 31st century they would have solved the need for glasses. They found a way for Geordie La Forge to see without a visor. The glasses are a device...but for what is the question.

[@zigzagzarf]

i would love if it was revealed the mirror universe has a new intact version of starfleet started by the mirror version of O'Brian

[@brunolabrador7472]

And they need Georgiou to get there and steal their dilithium Edit: Or burn it

[@sophiawilson8696]

If you talking about O' Brain being Emperor of Mirror Universe I fear because that in 23 century. They are in 29 century now And by the way the Mirror Universe that Michael and the crew went into I don't think it's the same one that Kurt beam into I think it's a different universe one of those altered mirror universes.

[@zigzagzarf]

@@sophiawilson8696 i know O'Brian would be long dead but he could have easily been the founder of a mirror federation through the terran rebellion...years of slavery coulda humbled the terrans outta being so nazish

[@brianlee901]

The old guy is Terran and he wears the glasses to help his eyes in the harsh prime universe light. He takes them off briefly, but he pretty quickly puts them back on. He's probably also a time traveller and might be the last person to cross over.

[@joshualau4070]

My guess is, Georgiou deducted the base programming for the Holos hasn't changed much in their 900 year absence. She probably has had *some* experience with this from her days as Emperor as well as the holograms Control used. I've often thought Terran light sensitivity also exacerbated the need for slavery and other forms of differentiating the "haves" from the "have nots". The "haves" work indoors while the "have nots" work outside in the bright harsh sun......

[@joshualau4070]

That being said, I think the Holos explaining biological differences between Prime Humans and Terran and attributing Terran behavior to this is similar to how we 21st century humans tend to attribute certain bad behaviors to everything from mental illness to lack of discipline (especially during childhood). Georgiou rebutts and says basically attributing any biological difference between Terrans and Humans to her behavior is utter nonsense. The only thing I can attribute to this difference however, is light sensitivity. This exacerbates the need for slavery and other forms of differentiating the "Haves" from the "Have Nots". The "Haves" tend to work indoors while the "Havr Nots" have to work outside in the bright sun.....

[@about50pyros55]

or the chimeric gene could make a person predisposed to evil but not seal their fate entirely based on upon how they are raised adn environment

[@gypsycob1351]

loving the show

[@Locutus.Borg.]

Then I would guess you are not a long time fan of Star Trek who has watched the series starting initially with TOS then TNG, DS9, Voyager and the dip that was Enterprise which was really only interesting during the 6 part introduction of the Xindi. I think this show has gotten lost in identity politics and challenging social mores. It is a soulless version of Star Trek which has nothing in common with any of the Star Trek series that came before it. Nevertheless, I have seen every episode of Star Trek: Discovery, and I am still watching. It can't be worse than the conclusion to the final episode of the series Star Trek: Picard.

[@gypsycob1351]

@@Locutus.Borg. I am not saying it's better than any other just great to have a few new shows to watch no more reruns first 2 seasons were crap session 3 I AM loving its 900 years in the future nothing will bring back that sprite of the old shows till now Star Trek: Picard did not like the ending but happy to see Picard back

[@gypsycob1351]

I did watch every show and reruns love trek

[@Locutus.Borg.]

@@gypsycob1351 I was born about 1 year before Star Trek TOS aired but as it ended in June 1969 I was too young to have watched it when it was on TV originally. So I saw all of those episodes as reruns. As for the rest I watched each series TNG, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise as they aired. Being a fan of Star Trek is all that matters in any case. Not whether you were there at the beginning or only got to see reruns. Yes, it's good to be able to watch new episodes of Star Trek but I would be happier if they didn't go out of their way to undermine everything that made Star Trek great. Immersing the genre in identity politics and LGBTQ themes and making the cast of main characters predominantly female misses the point.

[@gypsycob1351]

@@Locutus.Borg. agree 👍

[@ZappaBlues]

Casting David Cronenberg was an act of genius.

[@ryansjl]

love this scene between georgiou and glass guy. so intense

[@NyghtWolf]

It's odd.. a lot of people seem to be missing this, or maybe I'm reading into it too much? I think the guy in the glasses actually gives Philipa a hint on how to disable the holos: At the first zoom in, he winks with his left eye twice- she seems curious. Then he blinks at her twice quickly, now she knows what to do. Then he does it one more time & subtly nods to the holos, telling her the target. I think he did this so the two of them could talk alone, & find out if she knew WHY that would work, then he possibly set the glasses to record before giving her the badge to play with (the three hexagon menu he pulls down when we see the menu from his angle says 'Record'). We know from movies like Star Trek First Contact, that even by the 24th century, there were medical techniques to fix eyesight- as seen with Geordi who is seen with out his visor & able to see in the movie. This whole thing is SO super interesting to me, and I FIRMLY believe it was a test as well. Excellent video, thank you!

[@iainansell5930]

perhaps he's a hologram and his glasses are a device that allows him to be autonomous, much like voyagers doctors and his emitter... he may even be iin charge of section 31, perhaps for hundreds of years...and knows georgiou from when she joined after she goes back...

[@ThePCguy17]

In my opinion, Georgiou blatantly lied about how she broke the holograms and why she was blinking. She blinked weird and meaningfully, even interjecting it into the conversation by force, and fed them, as Lore Reloaded put it, 'word salad' that intentionally makes no sense. She didn't need to mess with harmonic frequencies, her mind games outplayed their simplistic interrogation routine and fried their logic circuits, to borrow Star Wars terminology. And then, having reached the next stage of the mind game that is trying to get a consummate liar to tell you what you want to know and be truthful in doing so, Georgiou looked to the man who'd sent out the 31st century equivalent of unpaid interns at her in a probing attack and said, "Your overgrown lie detectors just broke. Your move." To which he basically responds, "That's fine, I don't need them to deal with you." And he doesn't. To be clear, I disagree with the assessment that the holograms were substandard tech by 31st century standards. The man in the glasses wanted to see what she'd make of them, but knew that anyone who can lead an empire like she did can outsmart a system whose only purpose is to extract information with relative ease. He just wanted to see how long it would take. Notably, in all the other circumstances I'm aware of, 31st century holograms are used as support personnel to organic diplomats, mainly as lie detectors. They're not, as a rule, terribly robust or meant to operate on their own like the man in the glasses had them doing here.

[@misterlyle.]

The Empress remains expressionless at the mention of the collapse of the Terran Empire at 8:24. The music/sound effects however places emphasis on this reaction shot. Is this the first she hears of the fall of her empire?

[@LoreReloaded]

I would say the movements of her face are there but subtle and yea.. this is the first she is hearing of it

[@misterlyle.]

@@LoreReloaded Thanks for your reply. Yes, subtle is the right word, but it is a powerful moment.

[@Opey32]

Genes set the foundation, but do not dictate what is built on top. I could see mirror universe people having a gene for increased aggression, after all those that are most vicious in the Terran Empire are rewarded most. Doesn't mean they are guaranteed to be aggressive but the social structure would essential ensure that aggro-genes propagation through a species.

[@ZoeMalDoran]

I'm not 100% sure on the source, so don't quote me on this, but I have a vague memory of someone within the Terran Empire venerating Khan as if he was never defeated. If the Eugenics Wars indeed turned out differently in the Mirror Universe, it wouldn't surprise me if the increased aggression genes from Khan and his fellow Augments propagated through the humans of the Mirror Universe

[@richardiv385]

@@ZoeMalDoran I think some mass gene therapy was used in both universes, around the time of the Eugenics Wars in the federation timeline. I assume that's where the light sensitivity came from and perhaps went later in the mirror universe.

[@Locutus.Borg.]

Did ancient Romans or Greeks have a gene for increased aggression? Or was it the culture and militaristic system they were born into that helped to sharpen their skills and encourage their aggression and violent instincts? I think the latter is true and also for the Terran Empire.

[@Opey32]

@@Locutus.Borg. The Roman and Greek Empires didn't rule by "you keep what you kill", so not comparable

[@Locutus.Borg.]

@@Opey32 In terms of killing equating to territory gained through conquest by war the Greeks (Alexander the Great) and the Romans absolutely _kept what they killed._ I stand by my original comment in light of your original post at the beginning of this thread but I do agree with your last sentence in that post.

[@ItsMaddieNow]

Personally I don't interpret Philipa asking him "who's really in charge here" as being about the leadership of the federation but as a question about who has stepped up in their absence and his reaction could have been as a result of trauma caused by the emerald chain or another organisation.

[@wop52000]

Did anyone notice that Cronenberg blinks at Her first, then motions towards the holo's?

[@hamobu]

The badge part is not about trust. She was trying to intimidate him by possibly taking the badge later and breaking it. Badge was unusual and displayed prominently indicating that he might care about. By giving the badge away and saying "here play with it" he not only took that possible display of power away from her, but made it his display of power over her.

[@LoreReloaded]

She didn’t take it. It was given

[@hamobu]

@@LoreReloaded she was planning to.

[@gedalyahreback2133]

So I think there is something clever here in that two-question sequence. You state that he avoids the question about who's in charge and answers the second one about the Burn. But really, his answer could easily apply to the first question as well. "There are conflicting theories" about who is really in charge.

[@LoreReloaded]

Yea someone has pointed that out

[@OUTSIDER40]

Thank you 👍

[@geraldshields9035]

@Lore Reloaded April 5 2063 is “First Contact Day” where Dr. Zefram Cochrane met the Vulcans after he broke the warp barrier. In the mirror universe however, the Vulcans were slaughtered. This was depicted in the Star Trek Enterprise episode “In a Mirror, Darkly” using footage from the movie “Star Trek : First Contact” memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/First_Contact_Day and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_a_Mirror,_Darkly

[@CesarNoelQ]

Michelle yeoh is just badass

[@juniorbacon]

I took it that the vulcan science ship they were talking about was The Star Trek First Contact parody scene. Alot of people think glasses is in charge or in charge of section 31. My question was does she sleep with him.

[@johncmousley]

he wears glasses because he is also a crossover and needs to keep reassuring himself he won't phase out

[@maxmatthews2463]

He wants to know how she can motivate the Federation, he's prolly Terran, keeping tabs or just working at 31, she wants to know who's in charge 31 or the burners

[@VectorPlexus]

My take is that both are temporal agents. If she knows that an upgrade could fix the holos, it's because she is aware of that period's technology and it's workings (or not). The Holos also referred that they detected her right away. This could mean that they detected that Georgiou was from a different time. If Georgiou is a temporal agent this would also give a new explanation as to why she followed Michael into the Prime universe, as she could know in advance how events would unfold, and that she would be lead to this point in time, after The Burn. The Burn might have been very well caused by a future faction that wanted to eliminate FTL travel to greatly hinder alliances or the Federation, and their ability to amass vast fleets.

[@peppyhare8458]

The blinking may have bothered you, but the man in the glasses gives her the code, (Watch carefully) I only noticed because another comment from another video of this pointed it out.

[@Bolsonaro_em_Haia]

I love Cronenberg's acting in these scenes. Giorgiou is trying hard to keep her composture and just barely managing, while he keeps talking softly, slowly, almost too bored to complete his sentences. That really gets under her skin and makes her anxious to attempt to return the favor - to no avail. Easily the best scenes we ever had with the Empress. She has been needing to be taken down a peg or a dozen for a long time now. I don't think Cronenberg's character has any connection to either Section 31 or the Terran reality, and I hope he does not. Would make for a better story that way. I think that this Federation remnant has strayed a bit from the behavioral and ethical directives that we would expect, particularly after the Burn. The Empress' line at 8'53" or so sounds to me like a last ditch effort at putting Cronenberg's character off balance. She is stressing the words far more than is usual to her, and jumping to conclusions in a very obvious way. If I can notice that, so can her interlocutor. He is being softly condescending towards her and showing a lot more vulnerability and willingness to accomodate than he ever had to, and that infuriates her.

[@williestyle35]

Till the end he only gives information that she *might* get access to, then the big and unnecessary reveal that there hasn't been a ( known ) crossover with the MU in 500 years. Which seems to be his main motivation for revealing that: make the Emperor find out what happened to the Terran Empire.

[@martinturner9823]

between 3minutes 12 seconds and 3min 15 sec, the male holo clearly has a blink. cinematic error may be the reason he is blurred

[@JeffreyScottJr]

Honestly, I thought that guy Cronenberg was the last of the Terrans. Also, the room looks like it's dimly lit.

[@X99-h6r]

seems she is sick and has to go back in timenow her freeze is something they are setting up as some dimensional distance sickness . .

[@TheNamgorf]

Perhaps there is a connection to that and the burn. I.e. dilithiem becomes scarce, someone is able to cross over to the mirror universe to harvest it, the distance between dimensions increase and it becomes innert similar to Georgio freezing up like she did.

[@X99-h6r]

@Pale Embers section 31 tv series is planned.

[@unrealengine1enhanced]

surprised to see no alternative warp ships out there star trek : all of them, had many other ships powered by more than just dilithium. discovery needs to expand the universe FASTER than it is.

[@chrisellis1232]

Some variant of Control still exists and is really in charge, the burn is to create isolation, sounds very similar to The Great Reset?

[@crankmike0845]

He hypnotized her watch the reflection of his hands in his glasses