How Nvidia KILLED PC Gaming Optimization Through DLSS and Frame Generation - Game Devs Don't Care

[@Kryptic1046]

A game that needs frame gen to hit 60fps at 1080p on mainstream hardware is laughable and nobody should buy that crap just on principle alone.

[@innerlude]

ding-ding

[@aberkae]

Yeah I remember I brought up optimization in a unreal engine dev dedicated video they got triggered. 🤦‍♂️ Like you can't tell them why their games are failing to sell and are review-bombed. It's like I was talking about different language.

[@aqualtor9696]

On top of that in recommendation even tell you to set graphic to medium 1080p 60 fps with fg on . That actually blown my mind how bad optimization . For example i already see game that have very bad optimization like first descendant despite that i still can run it with all ultra,DLAA , Rt on ,ray reconstruct at 60-70 fps with fg on 2k . But imagine new coming game recommend you to run on medium and 1080p with fg to can barely reach 60 fps cant imagine how bad optimization it will be

[@tungnguyenthanh7757]

And that's not Nvidia fault

[@s.muller8688]

they will not get my money. not in a million years.

[@Greez1337]

It's nuts. Games have such poor visual clarity now too.

[@Masaim6]

Allan Wake 2 disagrees.

[@Sp3cialk304]

That's TAA for ya. MSAA replaced SSAA because it increased performance budget. Then TAA replaced MSAA because of differed rendering, modern post processing and again a performance budget increase. MSAA looked worse than SSAA, TAA looks worse than MSAA. At least this time with DLSS at 1440p and 4k it looks better than TAA. Games are going to use temporal image reconstruction either way. At least we have one now that cleans ups taas issues.

[@RobertFromEarth]

Well, Nvidia will prove you wrong if you buy their next 600W GPU for $2500.

[@godnamedtay]

@@Masaim6hell blade 2 and silent hill 2 also back up this sentiment

[@pedrohenriquemorais4979]

​@@godnamedtayYou have to check your eyes, Hellblade 2 is very blurry, you got used to it or it has a low standard.

[@PoRRasturvaT]

This was supposed to help play at 4k with high framerate (120+). Not be a requirement for 1080p.

[@silversteel8998]

You are correct

[@aqualtor9696]

sadly our gamer will stuck with can barely run on 60 fps curse forever if this keep happening

[@KingVulpes]

DLSS was made for RT but now it's just being used for everything

[@evacody1249]

When 1080p and 1440p become hard to run because 4k I get pissed.

[@horticultural261]

minimum gtx1660

[@Zaney_]

Using frame gen below 60 already has issues with artefacting, ghosting and smearing. These devs aren't taking advantage of dlss and frame gen, its more like abusing them to use them in a way that wasn't intended in the first place.

[@heatnup]

Frame generation is bad at 100+ fps. I would never use it personally. Too much input delay and inaccurate frames.

[@r.d.6290]

Why? Frame gen is only making sense for bringing up fps from 30-40 to 60, when input lag isn't an issue, like some single-player console stuff. Isn't 100+ fps FG gonna create input lag that defeats the purpose of high fps in anything competitive?

[@heatnup]

@@r.d.6290 Input delay is incredibly important for EVERY game not just competitive multiplayer games. Less input delay means more immersion.

[@tysopiccaso8711]

Literally nobody suggests using frame gen to get 60 fps

[@aidanstubblebine2197]

I use a 60 hz freesync monitor for gaming because thats all i have. Frame generation either works great, or causes me immense input lag. There is no inbetween. In cyberpunk i can use it perfectly fine for the most part. But in portal rtx it actually made it unplayable.

[@theonerm2]

If they can't make the game run properly without dlss or fsr on appropriate hardware, then I don't want that game. I don't like this trend.

[@1worldgaming18]

ditto

[@sanji663]

Yes

[@RidinSpinners36]

Native resolution or gtfo

[@GameBMC1]

Frame gen and fsr/dlss is acceptable only on budget GPUs (e.g. gtx 1060/ 1070/2060 and AMD equivalents) not mid/high end GPUs (e.g. Rtx 3060, 3070+ or Rx 6650 xt, 6700 xt+) that cost 400 £/$ plus

[@theonerm2]

@@GameBMC1 That's what I'd like it to be used for, but that's not the actual use. DLSS was made so we could run ray tracing at a higher resolution.

[@moderncreep9385]

Companies are too comfortable. They take more, give less, and consumers just shup up and consume. If we stop buying their crap, then they will be forced to do better.

[@77wolfblade]

Very much agreed, there's also just too much toxic positivity going around. Also, silencing The people who are criticizing these corporations with their price hiking actions.

[@sesiluuti931]

With the flop of Concord(actually had to Google “that one game that failed” to remember what it was called)they will start to think twice about doing this, you even see Ubisoft changing course so it’s a good sign.

[@silversteel8998]

Your not the 1st one to say that and you won't be the last no one ever listens to that they go yeah everyone should then people agree with the statement and then totally do the opposite

[@moderncreep9385]

@@silversteel8998 it takes an army my friend. I do my part. If you do too then that’s all you can do. And I’m sure the more and more people get fed up, the more they will revolt. Will take some time

[@SIedgeHammer83]

try telling that to Nvidia fanboys.

[@arjun220]

So basically without DLSS and Frame Gen, a 4060 will run @ 720p/25-30fps ? is this year 2006? are back at the ps3/xbox 360 era capcom?

[@MrDecessus]

Bingo.

[@TheWeedOperation]

On hardware that's over 60 times more powerful 😂

[@simbeep]

Capcom???????? Is it developed by fuckin capcom?? Holy shit gaming is screwed!!!

[@pooriamahmoodi1949]

lol that'd be like twice as demanding as games like Alan Wake 2 or Hellblade 2, and I doubt this game can even come close to how good they look

[@Bos_Meong]

showing how much stagnation gaming has became now. I used to wow when new game comes out but now game are getting worse and worse yet more demanding

[@guitaristkuro8898]

I remember when DX12 and Vulkan API’s were tripling a game’s performance over DX11. Now the games barely run.

[@AffectionateLocomotive]

So should I use dx 11 or dx12 on an oldish GPU

[@m0ssyk1m10]

@@AffectionateLocomotive Depends on both the game and the GPU itself Sometimes an old DX12 GPU can run newer games just fine, while in other games it shits itself, other times there will be games that are more optimized on DX11 even for the newest cards

[@Dregomz02]

Dx12 never tripled or even gave more than 30% fps boost it was always awful, while vulkan is absolutely amazing when implemented well

[@wrmusic8736]

@@Dregomz02 errr not really. DX12 is just as fast as Vulkan, the problem is that devs often use it the Direct3D11 way that they are used to - as a state machine - which, in fact, will be SLOWER than doing the same in DX11 (it's most likely the reason why new Hitman ran so bad in DX12 initially). Vulkan can run like a total ass too if used the same way. You most likely think Doom when you are thinking Vulkan - and that game was made by the very competent professionals.

[@MrGamelover23]

​@@wrmusic8736the devs are never at fault, the publishers demand impossible deadlines, now they can spend even less money thanks to DLSS and framegen, they'll never pay for optimization again.

[@aquapendulum]

Fake resolutions, fake frames, fake optimization. Thanks but no thanks, Nvidia. 🤮

[@fitmotheyap]

I never understood people supporting frame gen, for competitive games you need to max out actual frames, for cinematic games you want the best visuals, neither benefit from this garbage

[@OmnianMIU]

FStRash

[@nobbyfirefly57]

Should I turn off DLSS in Fortnite? I have keyboard input delay but controller works fine. I also somehow get lag on my gaming pc with nvdia’s automatically recommended specs for my hardware. Same issue when click the ingame button to make the game choose the best settings for me but it still lags lol. I’m probably asking in the wrong place but you might know something.

[@OmnianMIU]

@nobbyfirefly57 yes you asking in wrong place and to AMDelusional fanboys. Me use RTX 4070, so no trash gpu in my pc. First of all the optimized settings of geforce experience and ingame function are literally garbage, stop to use this useless stuff. You need to change manually the settings to find wich is the best for your pc. Then no, don't disable any kind of DLSS upscaler, set it to quality. The thing you need to disable in games like fortnite is frame generator

[@heinrichagrippa5681]

@@OmnianMIU _"Me use [...]"_ Okay, caveman.

[@Adromelk]

Weve been on a steady decline of PC optimization for years, the reliance of the crutch of upscaling and frame generation is just the straw that broke the camels back and now the normies see it

[@SapiaNt0mata]

PC optimization wasn't on decline for years. some unoptimized games don't mean optimization in general was bad. my 2019 PC(ryzn 2700x and rx 5700) could play Assassin's Creed Valhalla on very high settings at 90+ average fps. the optimization of the game was solid. the optimization started going downhill when DLSS started getting normalized.

[@evacody1249]

@@SapiaNt0mata Then came FSR, XeSS, and now PSSR. Maybe using AFMF is not as bad. Yeah it's fake but I can still set graphics to high and get fake FPS vs fake upscale.

[@ggwp638BC]

​@@SapiaNt0mata My brother in Christ, a 2019 machine with a Ryzen 7 with a 700 series GPU of that generation should run a game from that year with everything cranked to ultra. The fact you weren't is because the game publisher/studio saved a buck and poorly used the hardware you had.

[@Wierie_]

Yay your pc can run ubislop, well done

[@JABelms]

I was playing 4K natively as early as 2015, let that sink in.

[@Masaim6]

At a cinematic FPS, cause how?

[@ggmgoodgamingmichael7706]

@@Masaim6 horizon 4 ultra settings 4K 60fps on VEGA 64 ... Batman Arkham Knight same, NFS 2015 almost same, AC Unity....

[@Masaim6]

@@ggmgoodgamingmichael7706 Vega 64 was released in 2017.

[@AshRaf-to5gu]

Damn. You'd think 4k would be the standard a decade later.

[@jefwoot]

Yeah with €5000 machines every year upgraded anyone can 😂

[@c0d3warrior]

Me in 2010: Wow, I can't wait to play games rendered in 4K at 3-digit refresh rates! Me in 2024: My secondary screen running at 1600x1200 60Hz I bought 15 years ago still is more than enough for current-day games, why did I even bother buying a 240Hz display???

[@dingickso4098]

You use Lossless Scaling program at 4x times the frame generation. 60fps to 240fps, that's it. That's why there are +240hz monitors.

[@tommynobaka]

That's why I've gone back to a crt monitor lol. Games not even optimized, not worth buying new. Play old games/remasters on a CRT is eye candy even though it's far less "capable" based off the numbers

[@MoonOvIce]

I wasn't aware of 4K in 2010, 4K tvs started coming out in 2012 but that was still the bleeding edge, just like 8k still kinda is (although now there are 8k tvs for less than $5000, and even less than $2000 too). It was basically a concept until cheaper 4k tvs started becoming mainstream, 4k streaming became a thing, 4k KZbin and 4k 60hz monitors also became a little more "mainstream".

[@tyaty]

​​@@MoonOvIce The main problem with 4k streaming was always insufficient bandwidth and CPU/GPU limitations on the reviewing end. People need a pretty strong good hardware for playback itself, as opposed to low-spec chips used low-cost smart TV-s .

[@makdonalds]

When the game doesn't sell well they will remember why they have to optimize their game properly..

[@MorMacFey-v2g]

Haven't you paid attention lately? They'll just blame it on racism, toxic gamers, etc. anything but the truth.

[@Rullino32]

IIRC i've heard that was the case for CyberPunk 2077, hopefully more devs will learn from them.

[@antares3518]

Nobody wants to optimize a game for a bajillion graphic cards.

[@simbeep]

​@@antares3518atleast do it for the latest ones It says it runs like 1080p dlss medium 30fps (+30 fps generated) It says a lot about optimization my friend

[@jesperburns]

@@antares3518 Good thing it doesn't work like that then.

[@adwans1491]

The 140GB storage requirement is also a dead giveaway

[@greatexpectation6456]

That's basically one fourth of whole 500gb nvme drive and windows also takes upto 40gb for itself which concludes that in total only memory space of barely 250 to 300gb will be available.

[@enrique6335]

​@@greatexpectation6456 Nobody should be using their dedicated OS SSD for videgame storage in this day and age, anyway.

[@BladeCrew]

@@greatexpectation6456 That is why I have one 1TB nvme gen 3 ssd and 1 1TB Sata SSD. The OS runs on nvme and my steam launcher runs on the sata drive. Any game that use direct storage goes to the nvme SSD, and the rest goes to my Sata SSD. I payed 100 bucks December last year(when prices was cheap) for 1TB nvme SSD and 1TB Sata SSD.

[@ShuckleII]

Well you can tell by the way I don't use compression I'm Nvidia's man, no time to code. The 4K load and the cutscenes long, I've been prerendering with no end-low.

[@ThePC007]

And it has to be on an SSD. The Steam Deck has proven that most games can be played on a microSD card with no issues, yet for some reason they need SSD speeds in their game. And for what? It certainly can’t be any ultra large textures or high-poly models if the game is supposed to be rendered in 720p only, anyway, right?

[@zdspider6778]

Managers out there be like: "Why spend $2 mil more on optimization and delay the launch by 2-3 weeks when we could just slap on some shitty upscaling and fake frames into a half-baked product and call it a day, since the sales number will be the same anyway?".

[@Jesterofthesky]

you seriously coming in here saying you think game optimisation takes 2-3 weeks ooooooooooh boy

[@zdspider6778]

@@Jesterofthesky I don't think they're skipping the polishing phase entirely, because without some kind of polishing there are often game-breaking bugs that reflect poorly on the score and first impression, but they've definitely shortened this phase by a lot in recent years. For the last 10 years their motto has always been "release now, fix later". 😐

[@YoStu242]

Now if they just figure out how to use AI to properly optimize games and make them run smoother without fake gimmicks and everyone would have nice time

[@Jesterofthesky]

@@YoStu242 Again... so many people treating 'optimising' like it's a straightforward thing. "Just optimise it man". Yes, a lot of rough stuff gets released. But people act like there's an 'optimise' button that they're just forgetting to click. Optimisation is a simple label for a HUGE HUGE process that is woven into literally every facet of a piece of software and requires new processes in basically every circumstance.

[@Joy-e5m4v]

​@@Jesterofthesky This! Optimization is a mindset in that you need to be conscious of how you use performance, and it isn't some slap all the features and call it a day. Optimization is about thinking which things are needed, which things the player won't notice until they are close type of stuff

[@TGDLeefa]

I just straight up stopped buying new games over the past 4-5 years cause of their poor optimization, insanely high requirements for games that look like they are 10 years old and their reliance on ai tech. These days I mostly buy older games, remasters and indie games.

[@fuckyoutubrforchangingthis]

just pirate everything(allegedly) I spent all my gaming money on a 7900xtx 7800x3d 990proSSD 2tb 32gb 6000mhz ddr5 gskill flare x 5 ram torus elite ax 650 rev 1.2 mobo with a nice 1000w psu in a h9 flow case... Save money by not buying games :)

[@GreyDeathVaccine]

And you save a ton of money doing just that.

[@heinrichagrippa5681]

@@GreyDeathVaccine Honestly, considering how reaching basic levels of performance is becoming a crapshoot with hardware that _should_ be more than adequate, if there isn't a free demo that allows you see _exactly_ how well a retail game will run, I see no ethical issues with using piracy as a try-before-you-buy mechanism. No one should have to gamble $60-80+ on a game just to find out it runs like crap even on mid-level hardware. 1080p/60fps was already the standard for your average good-but-not-enthusiast-level rig over a decade ago. After this many years of technological advancement, I'd expect at this point that should have been the default minimum you'd expect for even _low-end_ modern hardware, and 1440p/60-90fps+ (native!) the new standard for mid-level hardware.

[@MoonOvIce]

Also high-end emulation now is amazing. Such as PS3 and 360 games running in 4k 60 or above. I recently replayed Geara of War 2 at 144fps and it was glorious, on a TV it almost looked like a remaster and still plays great because gameplay hasn't really advanced in such leaps and bounds since 2008 or so.p

[@kochiss]

@@MoonOvIce Hell you can play ps2 games with perfectly smooth frame time 60fps at 8k, 120fps with frame gen if you really wanted, but I am not sure what the minimum spec for that is.

[@BaroonValm]

As a Game Developer myself, I Understand Why they're going down this route, and it's a simple mix of a lack of proper preproduction scope and limitation setting, paired with a ton of highly inexperienced and naive devs that think we're in an age past hardware limitations, simply because they themselves see beautiful well optimized games, and see the type of hardware they were running on, and think surely Modern Hardware can do this even if I'm careless, only for things to go horribly wrong, and ending up with crutches as a requirement. Further more this issue is even more problematic as those same devs have high-end hardware to begin with, so they realize their mistakes far too late, and fail to respect the Hardware, not to mention the pressure to release ASAP. I personally hate Upscalers like DLSS, FSR, XeSS, TSR, and Frame Gen technologies with a burning passion, and the ONLY thing where I see a genuine reason for their existance is for Ray Tracing, which to be fair, was turned into a "real time" thing at least a decade and a half before the hardware and software base is actually there for anything serious anyway. IMHO RT Hardware should have only been made for the largest dies, to use for developing the software and hardware for the future, and for Rendering Farms, and that way the dies would be smaller or more raster capable, either way better bang for buck for gaming in this era.

[@the.wanginator]

I agree. I saw the writing on the wall too. As soon as a good portion of the hardware sold was able to decently run a title at 4K with decent performance and at decent settings, RT became the new performance race. Before that was tessellation and triangle throughput. And the thing is, there isn't a huge difference in lighting with the RT titles that are out until you get to path tracing. And thats just a waste of resources in its current state. It's all about what they can sell.

[@furynotes]

??? Opinion piece. Nothing more. It’s amazing that GTX 1070 ti could do ray tracing even though the hardware wasn’t there. Compared to my rtx 2080 at the time. In which the hardware was there. It was able to give decent frame rates without ai upscaling. Quake 2 rtx didn’t have ai upscaling. Ran well. What dev could that. Not you of course.

[@heinrichhimmlah9953]

I think its also bad optimization. 15 years back it was possible.

[@BaroonValm]

​@@furynotes you just made my point man.. that's a 2 decade old game that has been given a face lift with ray tracing, not a modern one, the most visible differences Hardware RT vs no RT in modern games end up being Reflections in the 2 games that have Hardware RT Reflections, cutting off the Horrible method that is Screen Space Reflections.. The rest could have just as easily been done to a similar degree with Raster techniques.

[@Frontigenics]

these days 90% of game studios are BS "creative director" "creative supervisor" "narrative consultant" DEI hires that aren't even qualified for Starbucks. Contractors (who can actually make games, but aren't hired full-time because they're male) are brought in at the last minute to make the game "kind of" function for shipping. This is why everything takes 6-8 years to "develop" and ships as buggy, poorly optimized, and with MAYBE 7 hours of actual campaign.

[@himekomurata72]

Frame gen should be only used as a last resort not a requirement. Gaming companies are forgetting the number 1 rule on making games: make it optimized for most users

[@Thunderhawk51]

Yeah. If the game is well optimized and runs on a wide variety of hardware, more people will be able to buy and play it. But if you need the latest and greatest to play it 30 fps on 1080p with frame generation, your company deserves to go bankrupt.

[@greatexpectation6456]

Sadly they just say that "Oh people build their new PC after every hardware release so we should make our game playable that it could only run on current gen hardware and gamers should be thankful that our games give 60fps at 1080p high by using rtx 4070 or rtx 3080 at native resolution.We don't even do further optimization bcz we have upscaling tech." There you go that's the trend folks .Not every game works like that but most recent are like that.

[@karthikeyan53]

Frame should help us to run games from 60fps to 120fps.

[@jojomicheldu59]

Banger pfp

[@MA-jz4yc]

The funny irony is Nvidia pushing for the use of frame generation while also crippling their lower end cards VRAM capacity and bandwith.

[@Rullino32]

Nvidia has pretty much done that on purpose for people to buy next-gen graphics cards that cost alot, especially the xx90 cards since they have a similar price to a used card, the same will happen to the RTX 5080 according to rumors.

[@JackHugeman]

Nvidia wants people buying a 5080 for 1500 dollars as the minimum the play new games.

[@Rullino32]

@@JackHugeman All that while AAA companies would recommend that graphics card for 1080p/1440p with DLSS+FG just for 60fps, which isn't that far from the true considering how things are going.

[@tomtomkowski7653]

Nvidia just selling the wrong cards in the wrong boxes because of lacking competition. 3060 - 276mm² die, 33% of cores - $330 4070 - 295mm² die, 32% of cores - $600 3070 - 392mm² die, 55% of cores - $500 4080 - 379mm² die, 53% of cores - $1200 3090 - 628mm², 98% of cores - $1500 4090 - 608mm², 89% of cores - $1600 So buying xx70 you are really buying xx60; buying xx60 you are really buying xx50 and so on and then you are surprised that your $600 xx70 card can't handle 1440p.

[@kaisercreb]

even worse when you realize 80 was the flagship fat die and 90 was reserved for 2 80 class gpus on the same card.

[@DanielFerreira-hz4cc]

@@kaisercreb Yes.

[@DanielFerreira-hz4cc]

So, 4070 Ti Super is actually a non-capped version of a 4070 (that is a 4060 Ti)

[@6kittys147]

​@@DanielFerreira-hz4ccSo in conclusion he means. The current rtx 4070 ti super is actually a rtx 4070super and rtx 4070 super is actually a regular basic rtx 4070.

[@Gakki_Aniki]

Also that monster hunter game doesnt even look that graphically impressive, the devs did not optimze jacksh*t

[@main_tak_becus6689]

Dragon's Dogma 2 is the same. I think Capcom should stick to their own engine. Most UE5 games have performance issues.

[@juanmanuelesparza859]

@@main_tak_becus6689 Wilds is made on capcom´s engine btw

[@ludara8697]

@@main_tak_becus6689 this is their engine

[@SapiaNt0mata]

@@main_tak_becus6689 i played Remnant 2 and Lords of the Fallen at 1080p with a 2019 PC. both games were fine at 1080p and high settings. no 20 fps, etc. and Lords of the Fallen run better with higher fps. it even reached 70ish. the problem is not unreal engine 5, but devs not knowing how to use it perfectly. it's new compared to unreal engine 4, so devs are still learning.

[@Blackreaper95]

​@@main_tak_becus6689 I'm sure that the problem with UE5 is that devs are using all the high end graphical features which will absolutely effect performance then no optimization is done which makes it even worse. The engine is fine if used correctly within reason.

[@jigsaw_3156]

there has never been a better time to opt out of AAA gaming than it is now

[@p4radigm989]

It's all part of a deliberate racket to sell new hardware that normally you wouldn't need: Convince people to lower performance with 4k res, RTX ON, bad game optimization, gimp older GPUs in the drivers, ,,,

[@obycajnyneznalec1237]

When you are using DLSS at 1080p with balanced or lower setting you cant even see most of the detail, it simply gets lost in the upscaling, so what is the point of making the game so detailed then?

[@PyroBlonde7777]

The irony is that DLSS and FSR make games look like low resolution crap. At 2k it wasn't so bad because most of the scene is rendered at 2k and at worst you'll see 1080p. At 4k you'll see 2k in areas which actually isn't that bad to look at. But if I'm running an upscaler at 1080p that means I'll be seeing 720p in the backdrop of scenes. Totally unplayable

[@6kittys147]

​​​@@PyroBlonde7777Yeah that's the exact same problem I hate about games like u have mentioned in your comment many people out there deny this statement by saying "1440p is the new 1080p."The short answer is yes and long answer is no. Higher resolution does improve image quality bcz of stupid nature of games nowadays but current pc can't keep up with it for a very long time.

[@zznabil8109]

Games from 2015-2017 like Batman Arkham Knight Star Wars Battlefront 2 Battlefield 1 All these games run in high-ultra graphics 1080p with rtx 3060 at well over 90fps with superb visuals and pleasant to look at, WITHOUT DLSS/FSR or FrameGen at all

[@alexturnbackthearmy1907]

Oh, how tables turned. And Cp77 with its "exobidient" requirements isnt that unusual today, and even better then average (i passed the entire thing with my old 1060 and 4470 in comfortable 30-40fps with high-med settings, even without fsr. With hard drive mind you, and would never bought my new M.2 if ability to run somewhat well on a hard drive remained after "next-gen" patch).

[@sssveden]

​@@alexturnbackthearmy1907Honetsly Cyberpunk is well optimized now, I also completed it with 1060 6GB on a freaking HDD. Now i have 4070 ti super and it runs on 40-60 fps with path tracing or 100-130 if you use frame gen. And the game looks stunning so the requirements have to be high

[@mondodimotori]

Did we alredy forgot how SHIT it was Arkham Knight on PC??

[@zznabil8109]

@@mondodimotori yes, why?

[@M_CFV]

@@mondodimotori release bugs have absolutely nothing to do with visual fidelity and more importantly, clarity and motion clarity

[@2Step2Hell]

I dread to think what the state of the GTA 6 PC port is gonna be

[@erickgonzalez2887]

considering both ps5 and ps5 pro are gonna run it at 30fps expect it to be extremely cpu heavy lol.

[@TheGoreforce]

better than console, and the best way to play like GTA 5 and 4...

[@saveborg1091]

have you forgot that gta 5 has clouds softlocks when you have to EXIT a BUILDING that you've been in for litterally 34 seconds and the world outside has been already rendered? well... the fucking submarine can softlock you and you have already rendered it previously.

[@Ignisan_66]

GTA 5 had excellent PC port but that was in a time when Rockstar was actually good. Those days are over. I truly dread GTA 6 itself let alone the PC port.

[@IMRANKHAN-yc6sk]

Rockstar has put wayyyyy too much money and time into it, I doubt they can afford to fail the fans

[@N3G4T3]

If a game doesn't run above 60fps 4K high settings on my 4080 Super, without DLSS and frame insertion, then I outright refuse to play it.

[@poocruncha3266]

Games with ray tracing is already hardware preferred. We are just in the beginning of this "hardware preferred" era. "Buy this preferred graphics card and get two games free" And those games that come with the graphics card are for the preferred hardware and or software. Black Myth Wukong was sold with Nvidia cards only, so anybody with a AMD graphics card won't get good performance because of "preferred hardware".

[@M_CFV]

Thats not how this works at all. Maybe at a driver level, thats it.

[@Masaim6]

Fucking hell, Solar crown needs a 6700 for medium settings and it looks like one of those asset flip simulator games?

[@greatexpectation6456]

Actually rx 6700xt or equivalent to that such as rtx 3070 or rtx 4060 ti.

[@karthikeyan53]

Need for Speed 2015 looks way better than Solar Crown. Even Forza horizon 5 looks way more better and graphically impressive.

[@F1ferrari09]

Even a 4070 will struggle to get 50fps with DLSS quality on medium. This is more of a badly optimized game issue than a hardware issue.

[@BladeCrew]

@@F1ferrari09 My brother who is a devops engineer said the issue today is not the hardware, its the software.

[@guitaristkuro8898]

Before 40 series and path tracing, Nvidia was trying REALLY hard to make RTX extremely performant. They developed a whole suite of plugins and systems that boosted RT workloads by 400% at least, on top of removing the limitation of only having a handful of active lights. Tech demos, livestreams, developer tutorials, etc. Hell, they even made a point of developing on 20 series cards to show the performance. Once 40 series dropped, Nvidia quietly dropped these and delisted some of the old content describing it. They then rebranded the tech for path tracing and never implemented it into other titles. Now it’s silently sitting in the UE5 NvRTX branch (RTXDI).

[@ShuckleII]

I'm telling you, there has to be some sort of conspiracy in the gaming industry, because I don't believe any rational graphics developer would look at temporal anti-aliasing and say "yea this is normal and sane rendering". Or the drunken ghost frames from Nvidia's Frame Generation. Or the various "super" resolutions that crappify quality of the image that are selected automatically when you click ""optimize" settings" in Nvidia because the devs didn't optimize the game. Or some weird ambient occlusion I've seen that looks like you have dirt on your screen when you move the camera. I just don't believe nobody is paying devs or manipulating development to glue this garbage into games.

[@fleshpound1813]

Optimization has always been a problem. I remember when Skyrim came out, and my new PC could barely run it at 30 fps, with some areas dropping down to 15 like Dragonsreach when overlooking Whiterun, or the bridge in the cave during the beginning sequence of the game when looking toward the collapsed tunnel. Somehow a weak ass console from 2005 was running the game better than my PC with a late 2010 card, the gtx 570 ($350.00) in it and an i5 2500k which everyone considered the best bang for your buck processor. Then of course modders try to reverse engineer what is so wrong with the game and find things like left over code from Morrowind completely tanking performance and Bethesda releases a patch to give the game a slight performance boost, just doing the bare minimum. Later on there's an interview with Bethesda staff for a Starfield video I think it was, and Todd brings up some shit like "Sometimes while we're working on our games we stumble across things left over like old code from Morrowind, and we're like, wow that's so cool." Trying to put a positive spin on such incompetence. The quote is probably pretty far off from what was actually said, but it was at least akin to that. Such a joke.

[@TheKozary]

the jump from dx11 to dx12 made it really obvious which devs could code and which could not since it was upto them to implement optimizations, sli etc. All about making money not about passion or pushing the envelope anymore. Still have not found a modern game that looks as good as some of the golden era games.

[@whentheyD]

ONLY warframe.

[@Stszelec01]

We have capitalism what else would you expect

[@bb5307]

I was thinking of upgrading my 3080 with a 50 series card for Wilds but i think i will just stick to playing old games.

[@88meatwad]

A 3080 is still a great card. You don't even need to upgrade.

[@bb5307]

@@88meatwad Yeah just hitting into problems with the 10gb vram lately in newer games. Probably won't last much longer unless you just play older games then its still a great gpu.

[@liberteus]

@@bb5307 same card and same issue. playing 3440*1440 and as soon as card hits max VRAM fps tanks. it's stupid because otherwise it delivers good framerate with minor compromises.

[@kphuts815]

​@@bb5307what games do you play?

[@pedrohenriquemorais4979]

same with me, i have a backlog that will keep me busy for years i will skip this generation.

[@jurivjerdha2467]

A rtx 4060 / rx 6700xt can barely pull 30 fps at 1080p native at low settings for a game that looks worse than elden ring at any shape or form ? xDDDDDDDDD

[@greatexpectation6456]

Elden ring can even run on a rx470 4gb at native low and still produces solid flat 60fps .After the release of cyberpunk everygame nowadays follows the trend making the game according to high end hardware not even making it better for anything below upper midrange.

[@IezekiLLL]

To be honest, Wilds looks much, much better than ER. ER graphics is stuck in something like "slightly better than Skyrim". And both of them are fucking crap in performance.

[@dariuszupan8145]

Tf you talkin about ​@@IezekiLLL?

[@jeremiahspark1654]

"Imagine a world where we actually start to see hardware exclusive games on the PC." [PTSD-flashes back to PhysX by NVIDIA].

[@Rullino32]

Imagine if they're going to force ray tracing in many games, that would be bad for many people.

[@hpraarts]

God of war Ragnarok can't be played with gpu under 6GB vram. it's not even let you enter the game 😒

[@dennisjungbauer4467]

TBF, AFAIK it could always be turned off, you just needed to compromise on not having the fancy physics or animations. Or you could actually even enable it in some/many (?) cases and let the CPU do it, which would destroy performance though.^^ I got down to 12 fps in some area I benchmarked in Mirrors Edge (2009), with a very potent R7 3700X (in 2021). 😂

[@Jasontyo]

Thank you. Thank you for acknowledging all of this fakery. I blame the shift to 4k panels and the consoles pushing nonsense claims like "4k" gaming when we all know 95% of the last 2 generation console games are NOT rendered at 3840 x 2160. If console gamers truly believe their PlayStation is playing at "4k/120" when in many of these titles a 4090 cant do that natively, devs have to do this. Im one of the angry 3070 owners whos card is so crippled by its lack of VRAM its essentially useless now without all this variable upscaling garbage.

[@roklaca3138]

I think all 30 series except maybe 3090 was crippled and meant to be obsolete in less than 2 years, i cannot see it other way

[@betag24cn]

what fakery, it just works, just buy it, he needs another leather jacket keep in mind that we changed good games for rays being traced to look blurry and nvidoa fanboys praised nvidia

[@deathtrooper2048]

BS, most games on the xbox one x was native 4k.

[@NousagiCaptain]

@@deathtrooper2048 Man what do people like you get out of lying? If you are running anything that isnt a low fidelity game on 4k on console, the console is 100% dropping the graphics down to low. The BEST GPU in the world (4090) a 2000 dollar device can barely do it with everything maxed. And you think Sony, and Microsoft figured out how to do it for 400 dollars??? Seriously?

[@Jasontyo]

@@deathtrooper2048 you are either kidding or clueless chief.

[@Mattribute]

There are a lot of games. Since new games are mostly not fun and/or loaded with weird crap that we dislike, such as Denuvo, there’s a great opportunity in the marketplace. At some point older games that are good, fun and that actually run on your hardware may have a resurgence.

[@MorMacFey-v2g]

I have enough games right now where I can play a different game every day for the next 72 years. They can keep their new games I really don't have time. GD piracy!

[@stangamer1151]

True. I've been enjoying playing many games, released during the last 2-3 years, which look great and run great on midrange cards/CPUs. Plus, there are a lot of games, I played before and would gladly played them again. I played Cyberpunk in 2024 for the first time. These days it is better to stay away from most new games, until they are patched and fixed, which usually takes 6-12 months, sometimes even up to 2 years. By that time most games run fine, exclude Denuvo and modern midrange parts are capable to run them well enough. There is absolutely no point in buying single player games day one IMO anymore.

[@Mattribute]

@@stangamer1151 My dude, you said it all.

[@Adri9570]

@@stangamer1151 "until they are patched and fixed" and received mods that enhance the replayability after a 1st time without mods to enjoy the original experience.

[@Natraj_Chaturvedi]

Another thing that is not anything new to be honest, is the attitude of companies towards the PC market specifically. The PC port tends to be an afterthought even now when PC may be selling more copies than Xbox at least if not Sony PS5 for most multi platform games.

[@Stszelec01]

Don't forget China mobile market

[@nerfjanetreal]

*Recommended Specs* 4060 "Yeah im not buying that" If something doesnt run on a 1050 ti and look good,its a sign that the devs IGNORED optimisation completely

[@Polengue]

Admit you only own a gtx 1050 ti without saying you own a gtx 1050 ti. (Can't judge, i'm stuck at gt 1030 lmao)

[@solid_fire9388]

@@Polenguelol im stuck at GTX 750ti bro, that’s like stone age gpu compared 😂

[@SOS_Studios]

2080 at entry level??? Dude what 💀

[@ArcanBot]

Nvidia and AMD release a new generation of GPUs every year, but the good old GTX 1080 is still capable of running new games at 1080p. So are the new GPUs that much better? No, they just have these silly upscaling tricks.

[@MrGamelover23]

Actually, my understanding is that crisis wasn't optimized well at all, but mostly because they bet on the wrong horse. They figured that core clocks would get higher in the future rather than having multiple cores. In other words, it wasn't built with hardware of the present in mind, but hardware of what they hoped would be the future.

[@raptorjesus5488]

It was fairly well optimized on the GPU front but yes they did think we would have 9Ghz cpus by now, your fps is limited more by single core performance then your GPU these days

[@Viilap]

Developers be acting like it's 2040 and every gamer has gpu power of 3 x rtx 5090 ti with 144gb of vram

[@jacobparra4570]

They are not awared of the mid income consumers :(

[@NeddyShin]

I know a lot of people are making fun of PlayStation for using PS4 graphics but isn't that better off using that kind of graphics. So if they using Unreal Engine 5.5 we are forced to use software manipulation or better hardware to keep up with these new graphics and keep a steady frame. If I had to tell every developer to stay on PS4 graphics I would. it just makes the rig last a lot longer for that generation I feel like I'm upgrading my PC every 3-4 years now.

[@guille92h]

Well is what the industry wants you to do buy new hardware, they don't care for us, they just want always more money.

[@JanVerny]

Every 3-4 years is super slow. People used to upgrade every generation and the generations would come yearly. We are in an era where a 5yo 2070 Super is still viable, when just a decade back, you wouldn't even dream of using a 5yo card for gaming.

[@MoonOvIce]

​@@JanVernyI'm glad those times are over. Upgrading for upgrading sakes. My ideal would be upgrading every 7-8 years, just like consoles. In the 2010's I went upper mid end and so I only upgraded 3 times in about 10 years. Not because I couldn't afford it, but because I also wanted to do a bunch of other things and not baby the PC as much.

[@Rullino32]

@@JanVerny True, but at least that would reduce the amount of e-waste that may end up hurting the environment while being able to save up some money on good deals like the used market or even refurbished ones.

[@greatexpectation6456]

​​@@JanVernybruh heck no .Who would waste 1000s of dollars per year just bcz new hardware releasing next year? Unless your super rich or earn by yourself by 1000 dollars per month that could be the only valid reason I guess.That you are so wealthy that cost doesn't matter to you anymore .

[@bauer9101]

I’ll stick with mostly 2010 - 2020 games until a proper affordable mid range graphics card comes out. If that’s never then so be it.

[@Mattribute]

Exactly. There’s a lot of fun to be had in life without spending a lot of money on games that really are not more fun than old ones, and which require $4k worth of hardware to look good.

[@Masaim6]

Should be around quarter one next year with rDNA 4.

[@bauer9101]

@@Masaim6 At least with AMD there is a glimmer of hope. Nvidia, forget it unless you have a spare $500.

[@Masaim6]

@@bauer9101 Well actually the exciting RDNA 4 card will cost at least $500, but that will basically be a 4080 at half of its MSRP.

[@betag24cn]

the fact that i share your opinion, what a terrible reality

[@Galax2000]

i noticed that many modern games arent using the gpu as they should. and old cards like a gtx 1080 are suffering so badly from that. and some games like alen wake 2 are forcing dlss and makes the image blurry. its pain to get rid of it

[@dethskullcrusher]

System requirements have allways been BS, it doesn't work to tell you the hardware you need to play and doesn't guarantee anything. Been like that since ages at this point.

[@maervo4179]

This is so annoying, because i probably have to upgrade my 3070 TI to play Monster Hunter on 1440p. I think it is mostly because the Shareholders want faster releases like always.

[@VGamingJunkieVT]

I don't think the problem is DLSS or even Frame Generation, it's developers using it as a crutch. It should be used for outdated hardware to give it a leg up, not be a requirement even for new hardware to go smoothly. In my opinion, the best looking game is still Red Dead Redemption 2, chalk that up partially to artstyle.

[@M_CFV]

Definitely the art style. Red dead 2 has one of the worst implementations of TAA, motion clarity is really bad

[@sebastiankulche]

Or also TLOU2. Both games running in a 2013 console without AI enhancements and still holds up to most 2024 games. A low end PC from 2020-2024 should be able to at least came close to those visuals.

[@Sam4oEdits]

Bro this is so true but another problem are the game developers who put unnecessary shit. Like i do not need rt on the sweat of my character bro. There are games which look the same as the new ones but offer much much better performance. Like lets take ghost recon breakpoint which is a game from 2022. On my 1070 ti on ultra with 140% resolution scale i get 55-65 fps for me this is perfect because this game is beautiful and does not need a very good pc i mean most people have better gpus than my 1070 ti.

[@shazarakk]

I have one gripe about this video: Nobody was hyped for Star Wars Outlaws. Barely anyone gave half a shit.

[@tristancallahan8189]

Same

[@Shoddragon]

truly the star wars game nobody asked for.

[@kaylee42900]

I still remember the first games to support dlss 2. They were optimized before dlss and it truly felt like black magic making even low end cards absolutely scream through the games.

[@blckmlr7573]

I completely agree, these devs are getting lazy all because of frame generation and DLSS, FSR. They want a quick way to develop a game and just tell the players to enable it, it's an add on tool that they don't completely understand and wasted potential. If they properly optimize their games we could get far better performance than we do now, DOOM is the perfect example of this. Instead we end up with poorly optimized games with frame gen enabled that runs at the level of a properly optimized game, why would they do this?! They're wasting the potential of this tool instead of something that should help and double or triple your frames in a game they choose the lazy cheap route instead.

[@gatsbysgarage8389]

There’s a reason for games like doom 2016, bf1, battlefront 2015 are still some of the best looking games out there and run so well while I can’t get stable 60fps in sh2 remake, even on the low settings

[@cokeweasel1064]

Fram gen being exclusive to 40 series is absolute bull. There's a mod in CP2077 that unlocks it for GTX and RTX 20 30 series. It works as it should. Nvidia are scumbags.

[@necroboxic8526]

That actually was debunked. All it did was display the same frame twice. Frame Gen requires specific hardware to run.

[@summergamer7650]

@@necroboxic8526frame gen is entirely a software thing 😆

[@Ari-ed8ed]

The flagship of three generations past should be the highest acceptable minimum requirement imo. So the minimum spec for any game rn should be a 1080(ti) and not a stupid 2080. Also somewhat funny that I just bought a 4060 and they already called it obselete

[@KarimM-m4u]

Honestly, the best way for us to make sure optimisation stays the focus for these devs is simply by not buying these games. You might think that’s impossible, well flops like concord, suicide squad, and Star Wars outlaws would say otherwise.

[@Gegs-f6r]

Seriously, this year proved that just not buying games is infinitely better for gamers than the endless videos of wow just wowing at the industry

[@mondodimotori]

Imagine calling a "flop" a game that sold more than a million copies.

[@KarimM-m4u]

@@mondodimotori it doesn’t matter how many copies were sold, what matters is if the income that the copies generate is greater than the total cost of said game. Let’s say all 1 million copies of the game ur referring to were sold as a deluxe edition( around 110-120 usd). That’s best case scenario, that would mean the game would’ve made 120 million dollars. What good does that money make if the game cost 300 million dollars to make with marketing included?

[@ramsaybolton9151]

This is so dumb. This is a dev problem. DLSS/Frame gen would be amazing to take a 200fps optimized game to 500+ fps.

[@betag24cn]

its not even a dev problem, this is nvidoa pushing rt on everything, these are the results of rt on hardware that after 6 years is not herr

[@alexg9155]

I was messing around with AFMF2 today (AMD global Frame Generation) and I transformed 120fps into 240fps, maxing out the monitor's refresh rate and making it stop flickering in VRR. It was eye opening. I agree THAT is what it should be used for, not to turn 30 fps into 60.

[@SapiaNt0mata]

DLSS/FG should be used for 4K where the fps drop is absurd.

[@joshm60]

To play devil's advocate, the overhead of DLSS would make it nearly impossible to hit 500+ fps. That overhead varies depending on which DLSS setting you use and which GPU you're using, but it's typically around 2ms. If the overhead for DLSS alone is 2ms, then it's mathematically impossible to exceed 500 fps with DLSS enabled (since 2ms is 1/500th of a second).

[@ramsaybolton9151]

@@joshm60 How? DLSS improves FPS in every situation I've used it in.

[@nix294]

Fun fact about this game, a ROCK PILLAR has 810000 polygons and the map has multiple of them pillars, the polygons are more than any monster has in the game (the biggest monster have like 700000 max). The optimization is fucked.

[@cuma212]

Nvidia just offered a tech solution, developers are the ones who decide to use it or not

[@cmoneytheman]

Right it’s like the devs forgot how to optimize a lot of games and instead use dlss as a way to do it

[@4ek_1]

If it is that so , why the game like Cyberpunk/wukong have something to do with Nvidia?

[@OmnianMIU]

​@@cmoneythemansure ta rd

[@OmnianMIU]

​@4ek_1 because poeple like you AMDemential still crying and coping

[@cmoneytheman]

@@OmnianMIU sure ta rd

[@adeptalakay]

just imagine if game devs ignored dlss and frame generation and based their games on native performance during development. it would be insane.

[@AkaniApex]

its actually crazy how even games like apex legends looks better than some of the games thats being released now days and runs at 165+ fps on max settings on a 3060

[@chickenpasta7359]

its too bad Apex has become worse than mid

[@Scorpwind]

This trend started with temporal anti-aliasing.

[@EnlightenedMindset]

TAA is a cancer and TSR (the performance killer) isn't much better.

[@Ignisan_66]

TAA ruined image quality of so many games. Devs no longer provide other AA options other than TAA on native res. MSAA, SSAA, SMAA etc. all thrown out of the window. And the worst thing is when the game doesn't even let you turn off TAA (Cyberpunk 2077 for instance). If you want the best image quality in Cyberpunk you have to use DLSS which is only limited to Nvidia cards. I think this is intentional so gamers buy Nvidia cards and not Radeon. Cyberpunk is Nvidia sponsored title after all. AMD gamers can only use native res with TAA, FSR which looks like shit or Intel XeSS which is better than FSR but still doesn't come close to DLSS.

[@Gegs-f6r]

​@@Ignisan_66we dont have MSAA anymore because it's "too resource intensive" so image clarity dies for the benefit of fancy post processing and lighting

[@mondodimotori]

@@Ignisan_66 Because those options are HEAVIER!! That's what optimization is: Sacrificing as little quality as possible to get huge performance boost. Try run those games with SSAA (you can force it via drivers). And see how "well" they run.

[@hsujonathan5221]

Someone doesn't want PC outperforms the console at launch.

[@wblebon]

Strategy to get more profit for sure there is already a map for producing better and effecient in power gpu they wanna milk the crap out of us

[@vcupiano]

PC ALWAYS outperforms console lmfao!

[@DeanError]

Not in a practical and meaning scale until recent generations. The pc low level APIs , direct storage , CPU scheduling for multi threaded programs should bring everything closer without overspend on the pc side these days so it is sad things are getting inconsistent among game launches.b@@vcupiano

[@TheGoreforce]

PC even on bad ports performs identically. We call bad ports bad because they typically have worse options compared to the competition. Not compared to console. Console performance is unplayable to most PC players.

[@upnext2511]

I want you to keep the same energy when the ps5 pro is out that's gonna be fun 😂

[@JeyfarHandleSniped]

It's frustrating how this technology, which is a miracle for performance, being used this way. The entire point of this tech was making older hardware run better while giving higher end, new hardware more performance if you wished. Instead what we get is older hardware being phased out extremely quick and new hardware aging like milk while still running like ass, even with frame gen, unless you upscale it badly and blur the visuals horribly. Devs took a cool, emergent technology and turned it into stagnation and garbage PC versions of games in the span of 3 years. We're currently back to the garbage of early 2010 PC game ports where games ran like trash and were super buggy. This is also compounded on top of anti consumer practices like Denuvo also negatively affecting performance, while pirates keep getting a better experience because why not.

[@blindpsychopath4368]

I wish games were just more optimized. We need Totalbuiscuit again. 😢

[@space.raider.2271]

In a sane world we'd now be enjoying native 4k at triple digit frame rates, on both PC and consoles, in nearly all games, and at mass marketable prices too. Don't let the silicon mafia gaslight you into believing otherwise.

[@camronrubin8599]

Games should be more optimized but frame gen will be the norm some day soon, hopefully they fix the flaws

[@Gilarack]

Now gamers begin to understand how movie buffs feel when they see someone who has motion smooting active on their tv.

[@dingickso4098]

Planned obsolescence. Time to buy that $15,000 mid-range PC. Oh, what's that you're poor? Too bad. We dont care.

[@RealityCheck6969]

They can't make games run at 60 fps with full graphics details on $900 gpus but we have 240 hertz monitors for $150... You see the irony here?!

[@Maske4]

Silent hill 2 remake can't hit 60 fps without dlss at high even tho i have a 3090.

[@roydavid5761]

Every time a company has the opportunity to transfer more costs to the consumer, they will take it.

[@bigboss3691]

They do it on purpose, so that you will have to buy 5080 and 5090 or new next generations of Cards.

[@ProbablyNotAChicken]

Mid tier GPU's aren't even supposed to be 1080p/60 cards, they're 1440p/60 or 1080/120. Wilds should run on a 6600 @60 without frame gen. This is getting totally out of hand.

[@-Rizecek-]

Again, what I have been saying for 3 years. Nvidia has destroyed game optimizations or completely removed them.. every developer pays for DLSS + Frame generation and we are forced to play on fake resolution and added FPS. Today, DLSS is essentially a native resolution, and in another 2 years frame generation will be the norm. In 2020 the 2080(Ti) handled 4K at 50-60FPS. Today, for the same fps, you need 4080+DLSS2+3. And I'm not even talking about the fact that the games look worse today. Apart from the stupid Unreal Engine 5, where the games don't look like next gen at all. At best they come close to the level of Battlefield 5 / Metro Exodus / Crysis 3, but they are 60% more demanding.

[@mondodimotori]

DLSS 3.0 looks just as good as native at 4K.

[@GabrielTobing]

Its also the reviewers that are letting it slide by having frame gen etc apart of their benchmarking, making the results seem better.

[@astrea555]

4:58 framegen also works in screenspace aka pixel resolution so depending on the game's cost per frame + your fullscreen resolution, you might barely see a performance gain vs real frames, especially at resolutions like 4K Good video man and I'm glad people are calling out Capcom for this, specs looks like a parody

[@lukazcunha1]

The game doesn't even have top graphics to justify this, that's bullshit.

[@Alacrity-reserved]

Optimization may be the problem. The real problem is they need to stop cramming more stuff into games. Last gen graphics is fine. Red Dead Redemption 2 and Horizon Zero Dawn looks great enough. Their goal with frame generation is to achieve higher frame rate. Simple solution, last gen graphics with today's hardware.

[@mondodimotori]

"Last gen graphics is fine" Then there's a comment complaining about modern graphics not being as good as last gen. Make up your goddam minds!

[@Alacrity-reserved]

​@@mondodimotori there's no contradiction here. Some games are not as good as last gen. They are not complaining it has to be better than last gen. Just equal it.

[@wetzinalvarado6930]

FSR and DLSS sound really good for old cards (and it is, this gave a second life to my 1050ti) but... Devs are abusing this and became lazy

[@AshnSilvercorp]

It's probably going to be the same problem MHW had. Turn off Volumetric Shading, and suddenly you'd gain 10 FPS.

[@GraysonResistance]

yes,, but i think this time is different....

[@TotallyCreativeNameBtw]

I can imagine that will be the case, the difference being this time is that the rest of the game wont run well either so turning that, frankly speaking gpu bound setting down, aint gon do jack sh

[@GraysonResistance]

@@TotallyCreativeNameBtw you got gad damn right !!!! Plz capcom Delay the game......

[@miguelpereira9859]

Frame Gen should be used to unlock super smooth 240+ FPS gameplay when your game is already running really well, not as a crutch to make it playable in the first place

[@ErockOnTech]

I agree man 100%! Well said, all the way around. Upscaling should be the icing on the cake. Not the cake. What started out as a nice tool to potentially add extra life to dated hardware, has become the default setting. Every time there is something that can be used for good, people find a way to ruin it lol.

[@DannyzReviews]

Exactly! It just becomes exploited in the wrong way and then the consumer has to pay for it.

[@kirby0louise]

What's even worse is that we have the tools to make games run great. DirectX 12 Ultimate provides so many new, next gen rendering features. And beyond that, DirectStorage, Work Graphs, etc... all boost performance without any "cheating" like upscaling/frame gen/etc. Of course none of these are supported on PS5, so devs often just cater to the lowest common denominator and PC/Xbox gamers end up getting the short end of the stick. So beyond Nvidia, Sony is also to blame here too. And maybe also Epic, for not putting any urgency in implementing these features in UE5 (but they will happily waste time with other stuff like obscure memory management for PS, etc...)

[@Napoleonic_S]

Sorry lol, can't take it seriously after he said that he has been a long time PC gamer and yet doesn't realize that optimization hasn't really been a thing since the post DX9 era games and that we already had PC hardware exclusive games, remember Glide? PhysX? One one hand I agree that a game with visual and performance target on 1080p medium requiring DLSS and frame gen is unacceptable, but on the other hand as I said, optimization isn't what it was back then in the 80s- mid 2000s. Optimization these days means simply reducing the graphical fidelity.

[@DPedroBoh]

It's what happens when new amazing tools get available that makes work easier and better, instead of improving standards for the same effort, standards stay the same for less effort.

[@EBMproductions1]

*I fully agree optimization is needed*

[@Granlusofc]

For me as a developer and QA engineer, it's cool to use technology to bolster the quality of the overall product/service, so that the consumer meets its expectations on what was shown previously, all and all that's that, but to force or even lockout people of buying just because "we can use x now so we don't need to optimize" it's straight up bullshit and bad quality control from these companies, period. We can never expect users have the same level of hardware used to make the testing, since most of the time it far exceedes the recommended posted by the producers, and it just snowballs into what we've seen pop up on gaming news as of late, the classic: "it runs fine on my machine so it's good to go". They should and need to get their shit together, because in 3-4 years from now, if this catches up, we'll need to run absolute monster rigs to even play a game on medium settings.

[@kenshiman90]

starfield launched with none of this and is infamously one of the worst optimized games of all time. i dont think its fair to blame dlss, which is actually just another form of optimization and is insanely good, especially at 4k. shit devs are gonna do shit dev things, and good devs are going to make good and optimized games that can also be further optimized with dlss. with the absolute state of the gaming industry being being in the dirt like it is, to single out this one performance optimization that any game can use and that is black magic at 4k is really silly. the problems with games and game devs are far deeper than them relying on dlss, which again dlss is itself a good thing and form of optimization

[@betag24cn]

optimizatios means nothing if the game engine is decades old, they forced it to load small maps fulled with high resolution models that is why they load every opportunity they have, apart from the bad story, the boring gameplay and tye proceduraly generaed 1000 planets with nothing in them, not for the upscaling crap, let that stupid idea die, dont embrace blurry games that will hurt your eyes after a couple hours so nvidia can stop telling you just biy, it just works, it doesnt

[@MrGamelover23]

Pc gaming has officially become a luxury now. This is the new normal. It will never change because the hardware is too expensive for mass backlash.

[@RonaldoxSiu]

It's really not. A lot of games are still well-optimized, just don't play the shit optimized ones. My 1070 still holds up today, and I plan on keeping it for a couple more years.

[@stevencharette7918]

im done with nvidia i just upgraded from a 3080 to a 7900 xtx im a huge mfs gamer, playing with the 3080 the game could barely load textures of roads and buildings now on the 7900 xtx it runs so good and all the textures are loaded the issue isnt the 3080 its the fact nvidia knew putting 10/12gb on these cards would kill its lifespan within a year i hope AMD takes back some MarketShare because with NVIDIA at 88% this gives nvidia dominance and more room to price gauge and rip us customers off people need to start buying AMD or else nvidia wont have any competition i bought the 7900 xtx red deivl limited edition for 799 and man its killing it with games no lag and i play in 4k no problem

[@Rullino32]

Fair, i also like AMD due to their control panel and possibly affordability, but the issue is that most prebuilds come with either Nvidia graphics cards for gaming and workstations or Intel/AMD iGPUs for less demanding tasks in my area, and the only AMD graphics card i got was an AMD HD 6450 512mb that stopped working after 10 years of use in my old family PC, which isn't the most powerful GPU, but it was pretty much the first time i've seen a GPU brand even though it had "ATI Premium Graphics" sticker alongside Intel i3, which was to highlight the Intel i3-2100 and Windows 7.

[@speedbuiz]

One modern (albiet live service) game that's optimized FANTASTICLY, Destiny 2. I remember running it at 60fps on a GTX 780, 1080p. Every new swing of DLC keeps the performance of its predecessors. And they come out with new content EVERY YEAR. That's not even counting seasons! I majored in Game Art and I can confirm- modern devs (specifically the Game Developers) have absolutely no care for Optimization. Devs do raggidy jobs and Art suffers and we get cases like Pokemon Scarlet/Violet.

[@vulcan4d]

Frame gen = useless, but it is good to increase your FPS counter for youtube videos and powerpoint presentations. Upscaling, helps old cards but it is just blurry.

[@Eric-ct2ri]

yeah frame gen is absolute garbage tried it in first decendent and the aiming became way to sluggish even tho fps went up. it felt worst to play at 75fps with frame gen than locking frames to 30 with no framegen.

[@electricant55]

@@Eric-ct2ri couldn't pick a game with more botched framegen implementation, could you

[@Eric-ct2ri]

@@electricant55 picked the game i tried it in and it doesnt change the fact that is what happens with framegen.

[@Eric-ct2ri]

@@electricant55 anyway i see framegen as a gimmick to sell gpus cause higher fps means better right so adding fake frames to boost the fps numbers makes your card look better than the competition because your numbers are higher but its fake numbers. its not performance numbers but smoothness of the image rather than speed.

[@mrxcs]

To me, you need at least 90 fps stable to frame generation to become imperceptible. I use it in the First Decedent, GoW Ragnarok and Cyberpunk 2077. I had to mix low, medium and high settings to get a stable 90 fps base.

[@DR4kH1N]

I bought a 3070ti 2 years ago and can play almost every game I want 60fps, maybe a bit lower on more intensive games, on 4k. After playing the Monster Hunter Wilds demo (and keep in mind I'm a huge MH fan and wanted nothing more than play the entire beta weekend) it is completely unplayable. I was expecting having to drop my standards to 30fps but I can't even reach consistent 30fps, it just drops to 20 on storms/camp with players. And since it's such a GPU heavy game, after playing with settings for hours now, even at LOWEST SETTINGS I can't achieve 30fps. This isn't gamers saying they won't upgrade to spite nvidia, this is us expecting our purchases to last more than 3y before you have to dump 1,2k on a frame gen GPU to play recently released games.

[@apersonontheinternet8354]

I was looking forward to Wilds too, but having a ryzen 5 3500 and a 3060, uhhhhh, yeah. I don't think I'll be able to touch this game at all. It's sad to see

[@dannyhallsworth6580]

The kids coming out of university can’t code anymore. They can only use point and click, drag and drop development environments. And to be fair their bosses are probably pushing them to just get games out of the door so they rely on upscaling (so not there fault it’s the system failing them). All the talent that could actually get under the hood and optimise code have long since retired or quit because the industry has gone so bad.

[@mrfarts5176]

People are so bad at programming now. I train engineers for a living. About half of graduates can tell me how many bits in a byte. I have no idea what the other half actually did at university. I struggle to teach them basic engineering concepts.

[@CNTconnoisseur]

Star Wars ran brilliantly on medium settings with 1080p and 60Hz. I was on a 5700XT. It looked incredible and ran very smoothly. I felt like I had a next generation experience on a 5 year old graphics card. I'm gonna continue playing games like this until I have an extra grand laying around for a nice new TV.

[@marshal7969]

Isn't this capcom's fault than nvidia?

[@JohnnyBg2905]

Correct 😂

[@M8Hundreds]

both

[@betag24cn]

it is mixed, nvidia sells gpus with not much ram, is pushing rt on everything and the company to not be left behind ends in the middle

[@venusprinzj8094]

@@betag24cn So AMD with more Vram runs better in RT? Is RT needed to play Games or can you choose to play with it?

[@MidWitPride]

@@betag24cn High 1080p requirements are not due to 8-16GB VRAM GPU's running out of it. Nvidia sucks in 20 different ways, but high 1080p requirements is not the fault of low VRAM.

[@Nexus-fe1yz]

frame generation and upscaling tech shouldve been only for those that wanted to use ray tracing because not everyone can afford to run rt maxed out along with max settings on 1080 @ 60 fps, but now we need those tech for running 1080p medium settings💀